UT2007: Modding

[UnrealProjects]

Hey guys, anyone have any info on the SDK tools, features, or any details on what to expect from the level editor? Will we use the same PSK plugins?

[Monster w/21 Faces]

All I've seen that sets it apart from previous versions so far is the ability to add different mapping and shader effects to surfaces and objects with a simple drag and drop interface, the inclusion of real time lighting rendering and the extra elements related to the improved physics engine within the game. Sorry to be so thin on the information but we haven't seen much of the editor so far.

[collapse]

UT And Unreal GAmes had on every Release a Full Editor inclused so i think there is no Prob and on UT2k4 there were also other tools. So why they should reduce the tools when the game lives with these tools longer = )

[Monster w/21 Faces]

He knows that. He wants to know what sets this build of Ued apart from its earlier versions.

[Phopojijo]

Hey guys, anyone have any info on the SDK tools, features, or any details on what to expect from the level editor? Will we use the same PSK plugins?

Dude I totally got inside information that's been publically available since 2004.

Just kidding, but yea -- UnrealTechnology has several tidbits for modders to follow:

1) A look at the Unreal equivalent of Hypershade (note: Linked is NOT a screenshot of Maya's hypershade, its Unreal's actual material editor as of 2004. I'd know, I use Maya... Maya's is more confusing than Unreal3's appears.)

2) Near the bottom are Texture/Polygon targets as predicted in 2004 (and are technology targets for Epic's designers and engineers used in GoW and UnrealTournament2007, claims the site... which is owned by Epic so I assume is accurate.)

That said with enough RAM, allegedly Polycount's shouldn't matter too much to framerate as they do in current systems due to the roughly constant number of lighting calls (per-pixel, not per-vertex or per-shape like older engines)

Just watch out on animated vertices -- those still run through the CPU and still are caried by the motherboard's bus -- and can still cause performance decreases per-vertex in CPU/Bus-bound conditions.

Then again I never used UE3, I'm just making assumptions based on all the info I'm given.

[placebo]

I think there should be a way of getting access to the editor before the game is out to give some people a head start on learning it. Like, be able to buy the editor for $50, and then get the game free when it comes out.

[A_Spec]

I think there should be a way of getting access to the editor before the game is out to give some people a head start on learning it. Like, be able to buy the editor for $50, and then get the game free when it comes out.

PM it to one of the Dev's maybe they'll agree.

[Phopojijo]

I think there should be a way of getting access to the editor before the game is out to give some people a head start on learning it. Like, be able to buy the editor for $50, and then get the game free when it comes out.

Rip open Maya/3dsMax/XSI/anything else Epic will hopefully support and start making content based on UnrealTechnology's specifications; that way, when the game does come out, you're not spinning your gears and can cram in the editor with all your assets in place.

Even if you get the editor early, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass if you have nothing to put IN the editor.

[p2xelgen]

As far as modelling is concerned, it’s basically the same as making a model for UT2004. The good think with the new engine is that you wont have to worry about Triangles, so light should be A1...

Well I hope.

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, heaps of game companies already have lisences so I dont see why we cant get alittle info

Id like to know if ut2k4 maps will be importable, even if there is scaling differences etc itd still be handy. I guess the copy paste option from ed to ed might still be there but it does make things tricky, I was thinking more along the lines of a ucc commandlet for it if its still called ucc lolz

Some info on base classes for code (Unreal Script) would be handy as well, just general info again so we know what direction we should be heading with 2k4 mods to make them as compatable with ue3 as we can.

Anyways Im totally looking forward to the engine upgrades and any info anyone can give is greatly appreciated

[MysTikal]

I had a convo with WT ages ago, just expect some more custom crosshair support.

[BlindRob]

from what i know they said you can test and play levels from inside the editer, i think this is a real cool, and time saveing idea

[InvadrZIM]

i want there to be a calcualtor built into the editor

[ShredPrince]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, heaps of game companies already have lisences so I dont see why we cant get alittle info

Id like to know if ut2k4 maps will be importable, even if there is scaling differences etc itd still be handy. I guess the copy paste option from ed to ed might still be there but it does make things tricky, I was thinking more along the lines of a ucc commandlet for it if its still called ucc lolz

Some info on base classes for code (Unreal Script) would be handy as well, just general info again so we know what direction we should be heading with 2k4 mods to make them as compatable with ue3 as we can.

Anyways Im totally looking forward to the engine upgrades and any info anyone can give is greatly appreciated

I asked someone who is currently working with UE3 about this stuff.He is VERY well known around here.I would drop a name, but I am not sure if he would care.

Anyway I was asking him about porting maps to 2k7 in some PM's.Spefically some of my custom maps.He said it's basically not possible with BSP.Due to automatic visibility culling, and normal mapping concerns, it just would have to be totally redone.I think very very few maps from 2k4 will be "portable".

I can't think of any actual maps that use this construction tequnique, but Mov-UT2004Into has a room with Gorge and Damarus pawns in it.It's just simple BSP boxes, with static meshes to actually make the play area.IF it were an actual map, I could see that one being easily ported: lol the movie part !!

I also saw a movie of the editor in action from G4's website.It was GoW map devlopment.Some symetrical map for multiplayer If I remeber correctly.If you go find this thing, sorry no link, you'll see the editor looks a good bit different.Not the UI, but what you see in the viewport.Like he switches views, and you can see brushes, and the only thing that SEEMES like BSP to me, was like some ramp collison stuff.

I have also heard people say that UT07 will have less complex user maps thatn stock maps.In the case of UT04, most would agree, the reverse is true.The reasoning behind this is that not as many "hobbyist" are going to make a bazillion poly mesh or model: too much time.It was said most maps will look like vamped up 2k4 stuff.I think it'll be more like we just see less modded stuff, and higher quality probably.

[Kyllian]

God I hope 2k7's UEd isn't much different than 2k4's
I barely have an understanding of UEd as it is, I don't want to have to start from scratch again

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah shred I have seen that clip and perhaps you are right about them being automatically culled or whatever. Maybe the best option is to go from 2k4's ed to max/maya then to 2k7's ed, even then Im not really worried about per pixel lighting etc so normal maps dont mean much to me at this stage (can be added later). Im pretty sure that I heard somewhere you can mix different forms of lighting like per pixel lights with more ambient sunlights like what quake 4 did to optimize outdoor areas.

From Unreal Technology site
Directional Light Mapping enables the static shadowing and diffuse normal-mapped lighting of an unlimited number of lights to be precomputed and stored into a single set of texture maps, enabling very large light counts in high-performance scenes.

There are no hardcoded limits on light counts, but for performance we try to limit the number of large-radius lights affecting large scenes to 2-5, as each light/object interaction pair is costly due to the engine's high-precision per-pixel lighting and shadowing pipeline. Low-radius lights used for highlights and detail lighting on specific objects are significantly less costly than lights affecting the full scene.

Revamped 2k4 maps is kinda the idea, I dont have the time or resources epic does to make super detailed maps. Pretty much more detailed poly work (than 2k4) with less detailed normal maps is the idea.

Thats kinda why Id like a few details just to know what direction to head for now. I have heard of some automatic occulsion in directx10 and I know 2k4 can cull things as well at certain distances as well as lod on skeletal meshes. Its really all up in the air so I'll just have to stick with best guess atm

Something else to consider is that it might be zones/portals and antiportals that are gone now in place of a radius culling (clipping distance) like what you'd expect from a more terrain based engine like farcry perhaps. I know source tends to lod on map meshes so something like that could also be inplace. Its just really difficult to guess because of all the different techniques that can be used.

[Monster w/21 Faces]

i want there to be a calcualtor built into the editor

What windows calculator not good enough for you?

[Kyllian]

I had a convo with WT ages ago, just expect some more custom crosshair support.

Rock.
/me prays for TexPanner/Rotator, FinalBlend and Combiner allowances. And a better resizing method

Btw Myst, I completely forgot about those xhair ideas you sent me. I wonder if I still have any of the progress left >_<
Edit: Yep, still got em

[HellFox]

i wonder what 3d modelling program it will include
maya PLE? i hope the plug in work(the current one doesnt work for me)

[Puke]

Heh, I hope they support Blender. It would be cool if they added a plugin/script for Blender so the community could do auto-normal mapping etc. Then you wouldn't be limited to a demo software, and it wouldn't cost Epic much if anything....

[Xyx]

I hope it'll be something better than MayaPLE. PLE has crap lighting, and if you wish to export your models to just about anything you need some expensive third party tool or they'll come out all fux0red.

[epscylonb]

yeah blender is a great program but I found that getting the model out of it and in to ued was to much hassle, 3ds max still seems to be the most productive tool IMO

[UnrealProjects]

The last time I tried XSI Modtool I found out that they have an UnrealEngine addon, just like what is used for 3dsMax.........check it out...aside from that you can see Linux is supported!

XSI MODTOOL

[MonsOlympus]

Ive never tried maya ple to be honest, Ive taken a look at full maya 5 when I was doing a tafe coarse but I didnt manage to get very far (making a primitive and modifying using ffd). Ive tried cinema 4d and that seems to be a good tool but my choice for modelling is 3dsmax, its got an easy to get use to interface and has alot of depth to it once you learn your way around.

Itd be interesting if epic do actually release some kind of modelling tool with 2k7 but atm I kinda doubt they will. It comes down to personal preference so Id expect to see support for all commercial tools along with some of the others like milkshape and blender. If they arnt supported then you can always look to the community for solutions.

[Geist]

UE3 will support COLLADA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COLLADA), and soon I would imagine the format will be supported by more and more applications, including freeware/shareware apps. So at least for modeling and animations, the options are expanding!

Btw, note that Blender supports COLLADA already.

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah I was wondering how far the xml support would go, as max can export materials to xml its interesting. Unreal Engine 2 uses it for the karma data, if youve every looked at the *.ka files in a text editor you'd know.

Theres also cg and fx shader formats, not that importing shaders is a must for me. Im looking forward to making shaders using the new material editor in unrealed, I love the node based stuff

[Puke]

Btw, I just found a way to create auto-generated normal maps with blender!


And yea, I used to use Maya when I first started creating meshes, but I found it waaayyyy too complicated. Also I didn't like the fact that legally, you don't actually own anything you make with the maya demo, (ple) unless you get the several thousand dollar license. The same license issue applies to 3dsmax.

Edit: Whoa, I can't wait to see what can be done with the collada support!

[UnrealProjects]

Btw, I just found a way to create auto-generated normal maps with blender!


And yea, I used to use Maya when I first started creating meshes, but I found it waaayyyy too complicated. Also I didn't like the fact that legally, you don't actually own anything you make with the maya demo, (ple) unless you get the several thousand dollar license. The same license issue applies to 3dsmax.

Edit: Whoa, I can't wait to see what can be done with the collada support!

There's always the cheaper alternative....especially, for prop making and stuctures there's http://milkshape3d.com/ and http://unwrap3d.com/

For serious character modeling for UnrealEngine I'd recommend 3dsMax, and Maya....for high poly sculpturing I'd recommend http://www.nevercenter.com/ - http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/home/home.html - http://www.luxology.com/ - http://www.mudbox3d.com/

[MonsOlympus]

Usually I would agree that zbrush would be better than max for high poly modelling but after seeing max 9 is on its way, I would think I dont have to learn zbrush anymore

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7684178

Specifically this video: http://download.autodesk.com/global/...peed_large.wmv

[ShredPrince]

Yeah shred I have seen that clip and perhaps you are right about them being automatically culled or whatever. Maybe the best option is to go from 2k4's ed to max/maya then to 2k7's ed, even then Im not really worried about per pixel lighting etc so normal maps dont mean much to me at this stage (can be added later). Im pretty sure that I heard somewhere you can mix different forms of lighting like per pixel lights with more ambient sunlights like what quake 4 did to optimize outdoor areas.



Revamped 2k4 maps is kinda the idea, I dont have the time or resources epic does to make super detailed maps. Pretty much more detailed poly work (than 2k4) with less detailed normal maps is the idea.

Thats kinda why Id like a few details just to know what direction to head for now. I have heard of some automatic occulsion in directx10 and I know 2k4 can cull things as well at certain distances as well as lod on skeletal meshes. Its really all up in the air so I'll just have to stick with best guess atm

Something else to consider is that it might be zones/portals and antiportals that are gone now in place of a radius culling (clipping distance) like what you'd expect from a more terrain based engine like farcry perhaps. I know source tends to lod on map meshes so something like that could also be inplace. Its just really difficult to guess because of all the different techniques that can be used.

I promise you my sources are reliable.

No ZOne Ports, AP's etc either: all auto vis cull: you have to design around it I'm told: but very powerful....