instagib on UT2007? Please

**cato** · 08-23-2006, 09:20 AM

Hi there,

I hope this can read from any of developers. Please spend some time to instagib mode for UT2007, because many, many people from europe play iCTF and instagib DM, more as Onslaught or other NW modes.
You can see in Clanbase, how much players play the insta modes here in europe.
So please, please spend a bit time to instagib and the maps for this gamemode

We have a discussion on www.insta-gib.com about making it better and more impressive for all Players and the Watchers on UTV. If you wanna be part, you are welcome.

As a result of this discussion Faith created a mod called SemiInstagib, but in my opinion this is not a good solution to make instagib more impressive. We have many ideas, so if you wanna check some,
Here for example ideas from rickster:
"lets add adrenaline for booster possibility and IMO also health/shield access across the map, why u ask?
well, let me put it this way: many people want to win and to almost any cost, this is nothing new and applies for basically any game at any time.
so, why am i bringing this up? well, lets say this mod (SemiInstagib) is as much as a brilliant initiative also an invitation for new laming possibilites, take for example a situation where 3 attackers enter enemy base with 2 defenders, they all die but also manage to shoot the 2 defenders once each. next time they will enter enemy base, now what u think them defs are gonna do, stand and wait with only 1 life to go or die a happy death right away and ensure to survive another 2-shoter?

well, i know what i think, which is why i suggest the health powerups across the maps to prevent this to some degree.
perhaps even them 25+ crosses close to deffing spots or so (also for attackers to take ofc) and an extra feature added that they wont disappear (or aster respawn time, 7 seconds or so?), could be an idea i think.
well this lame example i mentioned is only one of many that i can come to think of, also say an attacker is shot early in his own base after respawn, why would he waste another 20 seconds or so on a 1-life attack when dying may be the better option to go ahead with 2 lives in his pocket.

yeh this, plus also adrenaline like i mentioned in the beginning (would contribute with yet another cool tactical feature), maybe with changed adreanline settings i dunno.
but this could be cool since u would have to chose between speed/invis/booster and yeh even berserk (plus possibly camouflage (lol!) and mini man if enabled). i think this could be a cool change and could seriously work good with this new "party mod", coz thats what it feels like to me.

im also very much looking forward to the moment22, where u will never know exactly how many times u will have to hit an opponent before he dies, unless the teamplay of your team is ****ing excellent. im very much anticipating this new enhanced teamplay demanding mod that lies ahead of us."

The whole Thread about can you find here

regards cato

**Boksha** · 08-23-2006, 11:03 AM

The whole point of instagib is that it's simple, and that's also the reason it's popular.
I don't see why or even how Epic could spend more time on it.
An instagib mod that's not instant-gib? What's the point?

**=XM=** · 08-23-2006, 11:09 AM

No offense to you but instagib is an aim training mutator. Because it removes everything in the game (powerups, weapons, movement, ammo management, health management, timing, tactics etc...) it is popular with new, less skilled and/or lazy players. If you want all the things you are stating, then play UT2004 instead of an aim training mutator. Basically you want UT2004 with a shock rifle that does 50dmg as the only weapon and max 100hp. Non-instagib instagib indeed. That is retarded.

**cato** · 08-23-2006, 01:52 PM

first! instagibCTF is no mutator but a gametype, just open your "instant action" menue and marvel!
second! You can do what you want, in europe this is TeH popular gametype!
The only thing we are looking for, is to make it more interesting for ALL, like UTV and support of the important european leagues. If you want to play NW, so do this and leave us alone with your stupid statements!

**Flak** · 08-23-2006, 01:54 PM

Let's try to keep this discussion without flames please.

**Magwa** · 08-23-2006, 02:03 PM

I agree with Flak we have to be carefull it is a very touchy subject..I love insta CTF at least i did in UT but the 2k3 and 2k4 versions i don;t know have more shot lag or something..anyway Insta is a very skilled gametype now i do not mean in the same way NW is skilled but in it's own way.It is very hard to go all the way from your base get the flag and get back without dying yet it happens all the time by great flag runners .What is their secret?? great movement, great aim, great map savy, so you see it is skilled too but it would be unfair to compare Insta to NW they are two tottaly different gametypes... i want Insta to be Insta you shoot the guy once and forget him it is what keeps the action intence and non stop..

**Molgan** · 08-23-2006, 02:44 PM

If u want ig with pickups I think Benelli shotgun Arena is a better choice.

No I really think it's best to let insta stay insta and keep it simple. Maybe add some insta specific awards or have head shot that allso can give some extra points/rewards. It could be possible to add a pickup as a secondary objective in iCTF, i.e. super shield so that, if the ssr give 100 damage, a shielded player has to be taken out with 3 shots.

**EntropicLqd** · 08-23-2006, 05:21 PM

Instagib. An abbreviation for Instant Gib. In summary, one hit = one kill. And that's what makes it unique.

If you changed it, it wouldn't be instagib would it?

It sounds to me like you really want to play Shock Arena with a mutator that removes all health and armour pickups. Which is fine, but it won't be instagib.

**cato** · 08-23-2006, 05:52 PM

I agree. its maybe better to change something with the flag or so, not with the one shot = one hit action. We play actually a trialcup to test this SemiInstagib mutator, but it suxx. instagib with more suspense for the watchers would be nice. Then we can gain more support from UTV and the Leagues. But how we can handle it?

**Shadow]I[** · 08-23-2006, 06:09 PM

I didn't really like the instagib sounds in UT2004, it was more of a "tink!" then a "twrrr!" from UT2003

**AmericanWoman** · 08-23-2006, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Shadow]I[

I didn't really like the instagib sounds in UT2004, it was more of a "tink!" then a "twrrr!" from UT2003

Definitely "Twrrr"

**Kyllian** · 08-23-2006, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by cato

first! instagibCTF is no mutator but a gametype, just open your "instant action" menue and marvel!

Yes there is an iCTF gametype, but it isn't really a gametype
It pretty much takes the IG/ZoomIGrifle options and adds it to the CTF gametype options(along with LoGrav and Boost=T/F)

Here's the code for the 'gametype'

Code:

class InstagibCTF extends xCTFGame;

var globalconfig bool bZoomInstagib;
var globalconfig bool bAllowBoost;
var globalconfig bool bLowGrav;
var localized string ZoomDisplayText, ZoomDescText;


static function bool AllowMutator( string MutatorClassName )
{
	if ( MutatorClassName == "" )
		return false;

	if ( static.IsVehicleMutator(MutatorClassName) )
		return false;
	if ( MutatorClassName ~= "xGame.MutInstagib" )
		return false;
	if ( MutatorClassName ~= "xGame.MutZoomInstagib" )
		return false;

	return super.AllowMutator(MutatorClassName);
}

static function FillPlayInfo(PlayInfo PlayInfo)
{
	Super.FillPlayInfo(PlayInfo);

	PlayInfo.AddSetting(default.RulesGroup, "bAllowBoost", class'MutInstagib'.default.BoostDisplayText, 0, 1, "Check");
	PlayInfo.AddSetting(default.RulesGroup, "bZoomInstagib", default.ZoomDisplayText, 0, 1, "Check");
	PlayInfo.AddSetting(default.RulesGroup, "bLowGrav", class'MutLowGrav'.default.Description, 0, 1, "Check");
}

static event string GetDescriptionText(string PropName)
{
	switch (PropName)
	{
		case "bAllowBoost":			return class'MutInstagib'.default.BoostDescText;
		case "bZoomInstagib":		return default.ZoomDescText;
		case "bLowGrav":			return class'MutLowGrav'.default.Description;
	}

	return Super.GetDescriptionText(PropName);
}

static event bool AcceptPlayInfoProperty(string PropertyName)
{
	if ( InStr(PropertyName, "bWeaponStay") != -1 )
		return false;
	if ( InStr(PropertyName, "bAllowWeaponThrowing") != -1 )
		return false;

	return Super.AcceptPlayInfoProperty(PropertyName);
}

defaultproperties
{
     bAllowBoost=True
     ZoomDisplayText="Allow Zoom"
     ZoomDescText="Instagib rifles have sniper scopes."
     bAllowTrans=False
     bDefaultTranslocator=False
     MutatorClass="xGame.InstagibMutator"
     GameName="Instagib CTF"
     DecoTextName="XGame.InstagibCTF"
     Acronym="ICTF"
}

It basically calls the Instagib/ZoomInstagib muts into the game, add some checkboxes and removes the TL and weaponthrowing

**Jake-SF** · 08-23-2006, 06:39 PM

I do not like instagib, however I do not want it changed at all. All they should do is give the gun a nice feeling, a nice sound, and if gibs are nice you have some nice instagib here.

Why? Yes I do not like instagib because I su*ck at it badly and ANYONE can beat me.. but I think its somewhat a classic and any changes, health/shield stuff or anything, well... its not instagib anymore. Its not the same thing, what many loves.

Thats all IMO.

**thedark_one** · 08-23-2006, 06:47 PM

hmm.... the topic makes no sense to me at all....

the only thing they really need to change is the feel of the instagib shock rifle. the original had that down perfectly.

**Ignition** · 08-23-2006, 07:07 PM

Yes, the old shock rifle felt much more powerful than the ut2k4 variant. I liked the weapon model in ut2k4 better though..

**Ickle** · 08-23-2006, 08:59 PM

What -are- you talking about?

Insta is insta, don't you dare touch it. ('cept that squeak of a sound of course) Insta intrisically isn't spectator friendly, you would watch for the wider picture, i.e. the CTF part of iCTF.

**13XBMSPEC** · 08-23-2006, 11:55 PM

IG vs NW, it was bound to happen.

**Magwa** · 08-24-2006, 12:06 AM

Yo Kyllian
Insta CTF is played without zoom and without low grav and without boost..just you the flag and your rifle...

**rickster** · 08-24-2006, 06:45 AM

hm i just checked here for a look in another thread which was linked from another site, and i noticed this thread by cato, involving instagib (which is rarely discussed in this kind of environment), something that im involved in myself. its one of the first times i visit the epic forums, so believe me when i say that i was surprised to see an entire post of mine from another site (www.insta-gib.com) quoted in this very topic.
as much as this flattared me at first, it confused me as i got more involved with the discussion in here. reading a few posts, i dont know what to think really.
first of all, cato; i think you are confusing people here, by first making a topic which appears to have the purpose of highlighting instagib and putting it in the spotlight for a moment, asking epic to put some focus into this very (!) popular part of the game as well (you go boy!). but then all of a sudden, u make a 180 or something similar, by quoting me from a seminstagib (recent mod being tested) thread, where i was having opinions and suggestions for that mod. i would never, ever wanna change this lot in standard insta, loved by so many for its furious pace and constant action.
about that, yeh, you guys claiming instagib is low skilled etc, dont really know what you are talking about. as rarely as a lower skilled player beats a higher skilled player in nw, as rarely does that happen in instagib. in ictf, matches between non-equally matched teams may very well end up ~30-0 in a 20-minute map - this indicates the needed skill differences are there, and for all of us who played this mod for a longer period of time, knows the amount of skilled involved, especially, if i may say so, in ictf, which is more of a team competetion than any other mod, really (with the exception perhaps of nw ctf).

i just made this account 10 minutes ago, coz i reacted on this post, wont regret it, seems to be lots of cool stuff going on here that im gonna have to check out

// rickster out

**AmericanWoman** · 08-24-2006, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Magwa

Yo Kyllian
Insta CTF is played without zoom and without low grav and without boost..just you the flag and your rifle...

That's how I have it set in my server. No Trans loc, and no adrenalin either.
Just in your face raw IG.

**rickster** · 08-24-2006, 06:54 AM

to clarify myself even more: i do NOT want health pickups and stuff in iCTF, those kind of suggestions were aimed at the seminstagib mutator, which was invented just the other week, and (obviously) will never replace standard instagib, in any way.

**A_Spec** · 08-24-2006, 06:56 AM

I say replace the mut with insta-mini.

**Denk** · 08-24-2006, 09:34 AM

Just read cato's post and don't take notes from that tbh... All the facts in his post are towards the Semi-Insta mutator, which was made by FaiTH (not XeNo) just for fun, not to make insta more popular or anything...

**Garcia y Vega** · 08-24-2006, 09:59 AM

Insta is fun cause Im lazy and don't like picking up weapons and other junk (why I like TAM to).. but the standard Gibs in 2k4 felt, i dunno... weak? When I play insta lots of times the players don't even gib, they just fall over. :/

I'm really interested in what 2k7 iCTF will play like. I really enjoy both UT ictf and 2k* but they are very different games. Either way iCTF for 2k7 better kick some ass.

**cato** · 08-24-2006, 10:45 AM

Was my fault to make things a bit more well-defined and I mistake Faith for Xeno, sorry about that.

I only would explain on what we think about, and for an example I got the post from rickster about that SemiInstagib fun mod, because I found there are many ideas in that post, good ideas of changing instagib CTF a bit, to make it more interesting for important Leagues and UTV Watchers.
Therefore I thought it is a good idea to post here for a big discussion about instagib.

All you know, e.g. instagib CTF is not really interesting for great Leagues and Events because for the greenhorn Watchers it is to cunfused and they don't catch on the action at a map. And if we have two equal teams, it is boring for these guys to watch till a flag is captured.
Thats the reason why I try to discuss with all of you, to make instagib, especially iCTF more impressive.
Sorry for my bad explanation on threadstart...

**Denk** · 08-24-2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Garcia y Vega

Insta is fun cause Im lazy and don't like picking up weapons and other junk (why I like TAM to).. but the standard Gibs in 2k4 felt, i dunno... weak? When I play insta lots of times the players don't even gib, they just fall over. :/

That's cuz you're "Gore Level" is set to "No Gore" - Have to put on "Full Gore" to see the body parts fly all over the place

If it's set to "Full Gore" - then the server forces that

**Flak** · 08-24-2006, 11:09 AM

You've never played the original Unreal Tournament I take it.

**Magwa** · 08-24-2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by AmericanWoman

That's how I have it set in my server. No Trans loc, and no adrenalin either.
Just in your face raw IG.

Dats the fact jack sorry A.W. i forgot you are right NO aderinaline and NO Trans,NO Multishot Insta Rifles NO other Mutators,But with 2k4 you know how hard it is to find a plain vanilla server without all this excess garbage?? Nigh Impossoble i have found two in dallas and i play there against peeps with 12 ,24,and 40 pings just so i have a place to play...

Cato Says<> Was my fault to make things a bit more well-defined and I mistake Faith for Xeno, sorry about that.

I only would explain on what we think about, and for an example I got the post from rickster about that SemiInstagib fun mod, because I found there are many ideas in that post, good ideas of changing instagib CTF a bit, to make it more interesting for important Leagues and UTV Watchers.
Therefore I thought it is a good idea to post here for a big discussion about instagib.

All you know, e.g. instagib CTF is not really interesting for great Leagues and Events because for the greenhorn Watchers it is to cunfused and they don't catch on the action at a map. And if we have two equal teams, it is boring for these guys to watch till a flag is captured.
Thats the reason why I try to discuss with all of you, to make instagib, especially iCTF more impressive.
Sorry for my bad explanation on threadstart...

Magwa says<> No problem it is all good but i assure you in UT99 Insta CTF was Huge in Europe and the states there were 100's of teams in many ladders all playing by the same rules and many shout casts and cups,you just need to look around or talk to old school peeps there are plenty here Insta in it's pure form is NOT Boring to watch...

**Garcia y Vega** · 08-24-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Denk

That's cuz you're "Gore Level" is set to "No Gore" - Have to put on "Full Gore" to see the body parts fly all over the place

If it's set to "Full Gore" - then the server forces that

I totally have my ingame setting set to "Full Gore" but its as if the server is forcing me to have "No Gore"...

is that possible? It really really bugs me when they just fall over..

**Jake-SF** · 08-24-2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Garcia y Vega

I totally have my ingame setting set to "Full Gore" but its as if the server is forcing me to have "No Gore"...

is that possible? It really really bugs me when they just fall over..

I don't know, I guess so... if it is, then the server is really stupid, IMO gibs is a great part of the enjoyment. Still, UT2004's gibs are bad compared to what it was in UT99, and even in Unreal 1 it was better.

**cato** · 08-25-2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Magwa

Dats the fact jack sorry A.W. i forgot you are right NO aderinaline and NO Trans,NO Multishot Insta Rifles NO other Mutators,But with 2k4 you know how hard it is to find a plain vanilla server without all this excess garbage?? Nigh Impossoble i have found two in dallas and i play there against peeps with 12 ,24,and 40 pings just so i have a place to play...

Cato Says<> Was my fault to make things a bit more well-defined and I mistake Faith for Xeno, sorry about that.

I only would explain on what we think about, and for an example I got the post from rickster about that SemiInstagib fun mod, because I found there are many ideas in that post, good ideas of changing instagib CTF a bit, to make it more interesting for important Leagues and UTV Watchers.
Therefore I thought it is a good idea to post here for a big discussion about instagib.

All you know, e.g. instagib CTF is not really interesting for great Leagues and Events because for the greenhorn Watchers it is to cunfused and they don't catch on the action at a map. And if we have two equal teams, it is boring for these guys to watch till a flag is captured.
Thats the reason why I try to discuss with all of you, to make instagib, especially iCTF more impressive.
Sorry for my bad explanation on threadstart...

Magwa says<> No problem it is all good but i assure you in UT99 Insta CTF was Huge in Europe and the states there were 100's of teams in many ladders all playing by the same rules and many shout casts and cups,you just need to look around or talk to old school peeps there are plenty here Insta in it's pure form is NOT Boring to watch...

Then i ask you: Tell me why UT99 insta CTF was so impressive and popular, and why UT2k4 insta CTF isn't good as the old one? What makes the difference?

**MonsOlympus** · 08-25-2006, 03:52 PM

Well I think the thread was started with good intentions so I'll add alittle rant.

I love vanilla instagib, super berserk and insta even better for those long days at work

I think there could be more options to it. Everyone wants to keep things as simple as possible so there is more people on servers or something which in my opinion is good in one respect but in another boring.

I just had a quick think about it and a few ideas I came up with are, udamage that lets you shoot right through stuff with the insta rifle or bounce shots a few times for those mega kills. Even insta combo pickup of some sort, ofcoarse this changes the gameplay etc etc but its good to see things evolve. I think thats the main reason why people always say the first in a series of games or movies is best because the second one always sticks to the tried and true formula instead of taking a risk.

This is not to say insta must change to be fun as its already da shizz, what I am saying is why not be open to discussion about changes to it as some of you peeps who play it more regularly might surprise yourself by coming up with the next insta

I mean the scope could be a pickup or you only get one per team, perhaps having a insta link which 2 players get so you can link to increase the range. The options are endless and with the brilliant moddability of the engine why not come up with alittle extra even if it is for the offliners primarily.

**Sero** · 08-25-2006, 05:39 PM

Hmm, instagib should just remain instagib, absolutely no point in changing the concept of it (wasn't too thrilled with semi-insta either). Problem with ut2k* iCTF is mainly that it promotes defensive play much more than in ut99, but with the ut2k7 gameplay being different than either of it's previous incarnations, you can't say yet if that will be the same or not. I think the removal of the dodge-jump and the increased gravity will be a positive effect here.

And about the mutator/gametype thing: I think it was a bit silly making iCTF into a gametype in the game browser, because it is what it is, a mutator, even though this simple mutator changes the way you have to play the game so drastically that it's just as different from it's nw equivalents (which some people often seem to overlook, and then call it "n00b" or whatnot because they don't get it's played differently than what they're used to or something) as any gametype could be.

just my 2 euro cents ;x

**Madridista** · 08-25-2006, 05:48 PM

hmm insta-gib is good enough as it is.

I Think epic should still spend some more time in building exclusive ICTF maps, maybe even IDM altough ICTF is fairly more popular.

I wanna add that i played insta in both UT99 and UT2K4, and personally i think that the UT99 insta was much better, I cant really tell why, could be the engine, could be the shock-rifle, but if u can make the insta as it was in UT99 - the closer the better, then i think it will be great.

**BlindRob** · 08-25-2006, 06:19 PM

like people are saying the UT99 insta sounds and gibs and such were so much better, when i got UT2003 and played insta, it just felt weak, and i quit playing it, the UT insta felt like you were shooting a explosion, not some silly laser. so all im asking is bring it back how it was in UT :P

**bulldog** · 08-26-2006, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by BlindRob

like people are saying the UT99 insta sounds and gibs and such were so much better, when i got UT2003 and played insta, it just felt weak, and i quit playing it, the UT insta felt like you were shooting a explosion, not some silly laser. so all im asking is bring it back how it was in UT :P

agreed - the UT200x insta feels like you are trying to kill players with a pea shooter and horrbile sound the ESR makes doesn't help.

with UT the whole weapon/sound is meaty and satisfying

I like the idea of insta CTF made maps - there are certainly plenty aound on the UT side - ones that don't actually have any pick ups on them if played NW stylee.

there might be a lot of resistance to the idea tho'....

**FliccC** · 08-26-2006, 06:53 AM

Insta is so popular because it is easy. Click on the enemy and dead. Everyone can play it. If you want more depth in your game play the normal UT, its not that bad you know...

**cato** · 09-04-2006, 01:43 PM

recapitulating from your posts: insta needs maps and the old sound and shoot explosion.
Is that enough to make it interessting for the big Events like EPS, ESWC, CPL, GGL, Clanbase and so on?

**blackout** · 09-04-2006, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by FliccC

Insta is so popular because it is easy. Click on the enemy and dead. Everyone can play it. If you want more depth in your game play the normal UT, its not that bad you know...

normal ut is clicking on the enemy to kill him, instagib is clicking on the enemy to kill him.
you've forgotten that ig has a totally different movement (especially in 2k3/4), not to say a totally different gameplay. there is no spam (you usually got only one shot until the enemy repels); no powerups probably make the game easier in that way, on the other hand you must be much faster. dodging too much is always your death, calculability is always your death. in normal ut, you can still dodge away from rockets, even when you're always moving the same way, you can still dodge shock balls - in ig you can't. most of the players that call ig nooby didn't play it themselves (enough).
personally, i don't like normal ut, thus i don't judge it as a game for itiots - i am just not qualified to judge it anything. but yea, i have been playing enough instagib (with mostly highskilled players (ESL top 25) - they owned me all the time, but... it was fun, friendly any everybody knew each other), and i will play it again in 2k7, and i will have my fun.

**Boksha** · 09-04-2006, 02:24 PM

Blackout: all of that's just a result of the golden rule of good multiplayer games; the game is only as hard as your opponent.
There's no denying that instagib is simpler than NW though. I think it also attracts newbies because of the one shot one kill thing, but that's not a bad thing. In fact, UT2004 NW was sorely lacking in attractiveness to newbies online, which resulted in it's servers being not as populated as they could've been.

Originally Posted by cato

recapitulating from your posts: insta needs maps and the old sound and shoot explosion.
Is that enough to make it interessting for the big Events like EPS, ESWC, CPL, GGL, Clanbase and so on?

Clanbase is, in part, run by the people that play on it. Instagib is popular, so it's played a lot on Clanbase.
LAN gaming events on the other hand select games largely on public appeal and spectatability, and instagib will never score high on that. It's fun to do, but not very inspiring to look at. In a way, iCTF is still better to look at than regular CTF because it's simpler, making it easier to follow for spectators, but both gametypes lack a certain amount of stability (the ability for a team to be on the up, for example) that makes 1on1 interesting to look at, while all UT2004 gametypes lack the recognisability of, say, a game of Counterstrike, which basically can be watched as if it were a (poorly acted) action movie.

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