Epic Bashing on Epic's forums

[legacy-TRUEgamer]

I'm looking around in here and I'm almost convinced to not post here because of the relentless Epic bashing coming from some of the members, particularly Wowbanger, 187-LostSoul and BishopGantry. I don't mean to point fingers, but practically everything these guys post that pertains to UT2003-UT2007 is negative and somehow makes Epic either look like utter garbage or make them out to be a company full of morons who don't listen to what people want.

Now I can't control what goes on here, largely because I don't carry any sort of admin privledges, but I think that this garbage should stop. Epic is working on two different games at the moment and are also working on engine development on two seperate gaming platforms. It may not be their highest priority to read the senseless complaining that has not only infested but also obliterated these forums, nevermind reply to it.

Think about it. Yeah, they're not replying. Maybe it's because if they did reply, you guys wouldn't let it go. You'd push harder and complain about these games more and more.

If you guys wanna ***** and moan at Epic about the award winning, and trend-setting, games that they've released in the past, feel free to do it on your ignored and insignificant LiveJournals, but keep that crap out of here. We grown-ups want to talk about positive things.

[EDIT] Mithan, please pass this along to Epic's devs if they have a chance to check it out. I think that after all of the filth that has been spewing in here, they might like to see something that supports them.

[EDIT2] And tell them that they've already got my $50 for UT2k7.

[legacy-187-Lostsoul]

Look back at my very first post. I love Epic, they are one of the greatest FPS creators out there. But u must remeber, people don't post to complement, only complain. They are not morons, but they don't really seem to want are opinion. It took me 3 months to finally find an answer to why there is no AS, and i got it through some place else. They don't support their forum, Atari is still where they go it seems. I didn't like 2k3 because it had no AS, simple, nothing wrong w/ that. 2k4 had AS, but it was not as good as UT99, find one hardcore ASer who will dissagree. 2k7 has no AS again. Do you notice a trend in what makes me unhappy?

I work 6 days a week, game for a few hours and still manage to check about 6-9 forums a day, 3 times a day. They get payed to.

I will again say, i love Epic, always have, since day one, always will, hands down. However, to look on the internet for positvie things is dumb, very few people go online to compliment something, only to complain. I show my support by buying all the Epic stuff (a couple times i might add, i lose it all at some point) and by playing the game every day till the wife yells at me.

If you want more info on my thoughts, PM me. Make educated rants by contacting people and understanding.

[legacy-TRUEgamer]

I came to protest the lack the Assault in the next UT. To bad nobody from Epic cares.

(posted in another thread)

I didn't bother getting any sort of opinion from you because it's stuff like this that I see everywhere. I try to avoid uninformed opinions (psst, Epic does care).

[legacy-Nosnos]

I agree that the bashing of Epic can be a bit exaggerated but eventhough they make incredible games they are not perfect and the only way to make them better is to point out the faults... Sure everyone has a different opinion on what is wrong with the game but they everyones opinion is as valid as the next persons... tbh the forum wouldnt be interesting if everyone was just writing about how good they think the game is... I'm sure that every single person here that complains about something play and care more about the game more than the avarage owner of the game or else they wouldn't bother coming here...

That said there are different ways of giving criticism and many seem to do it the wrong way, the non constructive way... but you have to take the good with the bad I guess [face_worried]

[Wowbagger]

Look, imo Epic is the best dev ive encountered (with Anet coming up as a close second but they have only made ONE game)

Pointing out all the good stuff in UT2004 is pretty pointless, Epic knows what worked.
After all, IMHO, UT2004 is the best MP game ever made.

Ive been an Unrealer for (what is it?) 7 years and it gets a LITTLE boring to starts all threads with OMGLIEKEPICILUVEYOUCARRYMYCHILDPLEEEEESE. (youll get tired of it too i promise )

Like Nosnos said noones perfect and if alot of people are vocal about a certain aspect of the game Epic MIGHT change or add it.
I say MIGHT because making a game like UT2007 is more complex than i can even begin to understand.

In the end tho, if you dont say anything its 100% sure nothing will happen.
Heres an example from way back, http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=99fa8e59a296c68ed4e3251619a0ffbd& threadid=359694
Now i dont claim that the thread we did (its deleted now)forced Epic to make all those changes but i like to think that they got SOME ideas atleast.

And And tell them that they've already got my $50 for UT2k7
Pluese! [face_raised_brow] (wheres that bucket)

[legacy-Bishop_Gantry]

I'm looking around in here and I'm almost convinced to not post here because of the relentless Epic bashing coming from some of the members, particularly Wowbanger, 187-LostSoul and BishopGantry. I don't mean to point fingers, but practically everything these guys post that pertains to UT2003-UT2007 is negative and somehow makes Epic either look like utter garbage or make them out to be a company full of morons who don't listen to what people want.

Now I can't control what goes on here, largely because I don't carry any sort of admin privledges, but I think that this garbage should stop. Epic is working on two different games at the moment and are also working on engine development on two seperate gaming platforms. It may not be their highest priority to read the senseless complaining that has not only infested but also obliterated these forums, nevermind reply to it.

Think about it. Yeah, they're not replying. Maybe it's because if they did reply, you guys wouldn't let it go. You'd push harder and complain about these games more and more.

If you guys wanna ***** and moan at Epic about the award winning, and trend-setting, games that they've released in the past, feel free to do it on your ignored and insignificant LiveJournals, but keep that crap out of here. We grown-ups want to talk about positive things.

[EDIT] Mithan, please pass this along to Epic's devs if they have a chance to check it out. I think that after all of the filth that has been spewing in here, they might like to see something that supports them.

[EDIT2] And tell them that they've already got my $50 for UT2k7.

1. Alot of people didnt like how ut2k3 and Unreal2 was handled, ut2k3 got some redemption for ut2k4 and the addition of Ons but in practice people had to pay Epic to patch UT2K3 into UT2K4...

And Epic shouldnt have allowed Unreal2 to derail the way it did although they didnt have much to do with producing the game they sure as hell had the actual influence to ensure the game would be of quality...

2. If Epic dont listen to the community and dont respond to the community its quite apparent they dont listen to the community making their promise pretty much shallow words...

3. Or Epic and the Community could work togheter, Epic has pretty much been alienating themself from the community since ut2k3, and Gears of war and UT2007 Epic has been rubbing salt into the singleplayer community...

4/5/6. Sounds more like brownnosing to Epic than talking about positive things to me...

[legacy-xWARPIGx]

If you guys are that mad at Epic for UT2k3 and Unreal 2, you guys should buy UC2. The horrible glitches, lag, and freeze-ups (along with a number of other strange flaws) needed a patch fast, but alas, no patch! And now the community is dead. That'd really make you heated.

[legacy-TRUEgamer]

One thing I remember from the 2k4 development is that when the project was first started, nobody really heard anything. In fact, the dev's really didn't start posting a lot until the very end of it, when the demo was about a month away. Then, they started filling IRC servers, posting like crazy in Ina, and more.

[legacy-Tutenarak]

Look back at my very first post. I love Epic, they are one of the greatest FPS creators out there. But u must remeber, people don't post to complement, only complain. They are not morons, but they don't really seem to want are opinion. It took me 3 months to finally find an answer to why there is no AS, and i got it through some place else. They don't support their forum, Atari is still where they go it seems. I didn't like 2k3 because it had no AS, simple, nothing wrong w/ that. 2k4 had AS, but it was not as good as UT99, find one hardcore ASer who will dissagree. 2k7 has no AS again. Do you notice a trend in what makes me unhappy?

I work 6 days a week, game for a few hours and still manage to check about 6-9 forums a day, 3 times a day. They get payed to.

I will again say, i love Epic, always have, since day one, always will, hands down. However, to look on the internet for positvie things is dumb, very few people go online to compliment something, only to complain. I show my support by buying all the Epic stuff (a couple times i might add, i lose it all at some point) and by playing the game every day till the wife yells at me.

If you want more info on my thoughts, PM me. Make educated rants by contacting people and understanding.

I love epic too!! I dont bash, i try to stick up for them as much as possible without the others flaming me

[Wowbagger]

[blockquote]Wowbanger, 187-LostSoul and BishopGantry. I don't mean to point fingers, but practically everything these guys post that pertains to UT2003-UT2007is negative and somehow makes Epic either look like utter garbage or make them out to be a company full of morons who don't listen to what people want.[/blockquote]

Next time you feel like badmouthing me (i guess you meant me) do a search first.
One thread (barely) is NOT freckin "practically everything".

[legacy-187-Lostsoul]

I came to protest the lack the Assault in the next UT. To bad nobody from Epic cares.

(posted in another thread)

I didn't bother getting any sort of opinion from you because it's stuff like this that I see everywhere. I try to avoid uninformed opinions (psst, Epic does care).

Read the other thread.

The fact that they ignored the thread but went to other threads is a good hint at that. Granted, that thread ended up being a flame fest do to Anubis, but they still could have responded. As for hearing that else where, not many people complain about it on forums that Epic would go to. As for uninformed, you right i was uninformed, that is why i asked the question, "Why is there no assault in the next UT?". Please post facts from now on, not opinions.

[legacy-DagnyTaggart]

TRUEgamer -- when did you start playing Unreal Tournament? Did you play the original Unreal and the original Unreal Tournament (1999) at all, or did you get in with UT 2003/2004 ? That might have something to do with your perspective.

Here is what happened. In early and mid-2002 a huge amount of hype built up for UT 2003. After all, tens of thousands of people loved the original Unreal Tournament and felt it had near-perfect game play. It had a large and enthusiastic following (that UT 2003/2004 never came close to having from what I can tell).

When UT 2003 was finally released, people wanted to like it. Some thought it would be the second coming of Jesus. People gave it a fair shake. Then they concluded that even though it had nice looks, it had poor game play. Clanners--some of the most dedicated UT players, hated it. Many people even felt they'd been robbed after having purchased the full version of UT 2003.

I was reading through old threads on some forums, looking for posts commenting about UT 2003, and man, it was so sad to recognize avatars from old community members that I haven't seen for two years; people who moved on to other games, disappointed by UT 2003/2004.

So, basically, much of this animosity comes from people who desire the addictive online game play of the original Unreal Tournament and who were sorely disappointed by UT 2003/2004.

I don't hate Epic. If I did I wouldn't bother to post here. I'm just hoping that they'll produce a UT 2007 that I want to purchase. I'm hoping they'll produce something closer to a bona-fide UT-2 and that I'll abandon UT '99 for it.

I like to post here to remind whichever Epic developers read these forums that a near-perfect online multiplayer FPS game once did exist. It had a large and wildly enthusiastic following because of it's near-perfect game play and that that game was the original Unreal Tournament. All anyone ever really wanted with UT 2003 was the same game play as the original but with better graphics and better netcoding plus the new people who would join the community and servers since the game would be on store shelves. We're still waiting. We hope that UT 2007 will provide it but it's hard to get excited or to be optimistic.

[legacy-187-Lostsoul]

Word.

[legacy-TRUEgamer]

I got the original Unreal for my birthday when it came out. I've gotten every Unreal-franchise title ever since.

I, for one, have never seen anything dramatically wrong with any of the games that've come out, even 2003. Actually, I have, but the things I have issues with usually get fixed in the first patch.

And I am not saying your points are invalid. I understand where you're all coming from and all that, but you're all going for the jugular with pointing them out.

As for the "uninformed" comment I made earlier, I think that you (LostSoul) took it the wrong way. I said you were uninformed based on your saying that Epic doesn't care, which in fact is an uninformed opinion, unless you can show us proof of Mark Rein or someone just cmoing out and saying "Hey all, we don't care lol!"

[legacy-187-Lostsoul]

Yes, because a company trying to sell a products would say that. I'll make sure to tell all my customers that i just flat out don't care, but then expect them to come back. People don't listen when you go easy on them, they just rip you apart. i have learned enought things on other forums to realise that it takes some serious words to change things, hell just for people to listen right it takes words. Epic i think is taking wrongs steps every other game. 2K3 sucked, so they made 2K4 better, but not as good as 99 in some people's opinion. BTW, the only opinions i follow to a tee are that of Assaulters. Then to get rid of AS and the movements i think is a mistake. I will take a good look at Conquest when the demo comes out, but based on he way it sounds, it's not for me.

[legacy-Crunchy_Nacho]

Hmm, maybe Epic could consider making some infantry-focused Conquest maps that lack vehicles? It's hard to make this prediction without actually playing the game, but it suspect that infantry-focused conquest maps might appeal to Assault players.

Now as for movement, aren't you contradicing yourself on that topic? You say that you prefer UT99, but you don't like Epic shifting towards more UT99-like movement?

[fuegerstef]

Now as for movement, aren't you contradicing yourself on that topic? You say that you prefer UT99, but you don't like Epic shifting towards more UT99-like movement?

I was thinking the same thing. Besides... ...they are NOT getting rid of the movement but tone it down to get closer to the UT feeling and away from the floaty UT2003/4 feeling.

[legacy-TRUEgamer]

Yes, because a company trying to sell a products would say that. I'll make sure to tell all my customers that i just flat out don't care, but then expect them to come back. People don't listen when you go easy on them, they just rip you apart. i have learned enought things on other forums to realise that it takes some serious words to change things, hell just for people to listen right it takes words. Epic i think is taking wrongs steps every other game. 2K3 sucked, so they made 2K4 better, but not as good as 99 in some people's opinion. BTW, the only opinions i follow to a tee are that of Assaulters. Then to get rid of AS and the movements i think is a mistake. I will take a good look at Conquest when the demo comes out, but based on he way it sounds, it's not for me.

Here's some cute stats I just acculuated for you.

Onslaught: 86 servers, close to 1,000 players
Assault: 34 servers, not even 200 players

This is why they are not packaging Assault as a single game mode, but instead in combined form with the goliath game mode Onslaught.

Making Assault to please a fraction of the Unreal community would be an extreme waste of manpower and resources, partly because Assault is the most involved game mode to develop for. These are FACTS. You proposing that Epic doesn't care because of not bundling Assault, and pretty much everything else you are saying in this thread, are not.

I mean, if bundling a game mode that caters to so few people really shows that they care, then they should also reproduce Deathball, Fragops and Red Orchestra, which actually have more players than Assault has (the latter two, anyway). Then, we would definitely see this game midway into 2007. With Assault alone, we'd probably see it in early 2007.

Either way, the company only has so much money they can use on the development of the game. They're trying to please as many people as financially possible, and isn't it such a shame that you're one of the 200 people that are not pleased.

(I realize that there are more than 200 AS players, probably clsoer to 300, but I am just trying to illustrate a point)


[EDIT] I appologise. I think I was counting bots as well.

[fuegerstef]

[link=http://csports.net/(4f5ye2453mxncp55fczul2eq)/GameStats.aspx?Matrix=58]Stats[/link]

Here you can see the numbers of players (nicknames)in 31 days.

YOu can say that ONS has 3 times the players Assault has... ...and the other mods have about 2 times as much.

[legacy-Bishop_Gantry]

Exluding Unreal2 Epic has been neglecting the singleplayer community for roughly 7 years,considering the difficulties or perhaps the conflicts or whatever delays that struck Unreal2 while it was developed did not have the singleplayer community prioritized neither was the multiplayer community...

Sometimes later XMP is released, the gameplay and movment have changed completly from Unreal2 into something thet reminds more along the lines of Tribes gameplay but less advanced...

So far Epic has keept the Unreal franchise fragmented and incoherent rather odd behaviour for something that esentially are several sequels in a row what is even odder is the systematic removal of features the player community likes the most, aswell directly contradicting their own fluff material...

And I am not saying your points are invalid. I understand where you're all coming from and all that, but you're all going for the jugular with pointing them out.

So we should just ignore them and pretend they dont exist, theres a big diffrence in evolving gameplay and replacing gameplay Epic has done alot of replacing gameplay and very little of evolving it...

Ons was one step forward in evolving gameplay but with the replacing Epic's been doing theres alot of steps thats been taken backwards before that...

If the player community isnt attached to the game they'll jump the boat the moment something else pops around the corner since nothing is holding them back...

Some of the people here have been waiting for a proper sequel to UT for years, some have been here waiting even longer for a proper Unreal sequel...

To me as I speak for myself.

A proper sequel for UT would be like the original but better, ut2k3 dosent fit that description...

A proper sequel for Unreal would be like the original but better, Unreal2 dosent fit that description...

To some extent the UT side got heard but from what ive seen so far Epic happily guts UT2007 like theyve done with the previous UT titles...

And for the Unreal fans they pretty much got shafted completly with the news of the originally X-box title "Gears of war"...

[legacy--Mithan-]

I am going to lock this thread, but just a note:

My Moderation strategy here is to allow people to have a fairly "free" say in giving their opinion, within reason. Obviously, if somebody is going to do nothing but bash games all day long, they will probably be removed since to me, it is obvious they are just here to troll and stirr up emotions in the fan base.

Fans might want to remember that positive Constructive Criticism is a much more effective way of communicating with developers and is much more likely to get you a response as well. Developers generally don't waste time responding to people who do nothing but bash/flame them or their games.

If you want to see them more active, perhaps some should try acting a little more civil.