Inconsistency with Vs. Bots and other online complaints

**legacy-ictatha** · 04-24-2005, 04:52 PM

When creating a new game, if I set the max players to anything higher than 4, the vs. bots option is greyed out and says that it can't be activated if the max players is set higher than 4. However, after I start a game with max players higher than four, I can go into the session management, turn on vs. bots, switch maps to force a 'new match', and it'll work just fine. This is very inconsistent behavior. Why can't this just be selected from the game creation screen (interestingly enough, if I set this option within the game, then go to create a new game, the option will still be greyed out, but will be set to 'yes')

Also, how do you allow players to switch teams?? There is an option for players to request a team change. And when I'm hosting and a player chooses that option, I get a message that player X wants to change teams. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing I can do about it. How can a player change teams?

I love this game, but the hosting options and menus suck. Why, if I'm sitting at the 'ready' screen (listing all the players, match hasn't started yet) do any changes in the options have to wait until the next match? Why can't someone change their character for the currect match, or change the difficulty of the bots? This seems really asinine. For now if someone wants to change their character or if I want to change any other options, I have to wait for everyone to get done, then change the map to force a new match, or for some options (bot difficult, game type) I'll have to start a new game and re-invite everyone. Again... asinine.

**legacy-FViral** · 04-24-2005, 06:22 PM

You're being kinda belligerent. When a new game is created all the characters are loaded for play. I'd be hard to unload and then load another character if another play wants to switch for some reason. Same with weapons, might make it unfair.

The ready screen is not ment to adjust settings, you do that before the game is initiated. The ready screen is for orginizing teams and waiting for all players to begin.

Perhaps you don't have eneough bots unlocked to play with more than four?

Granted, the menus are a little clumsy, but the are direct and as long as you dont intend on switching gametypes every 30 seconds you'll be fine.

**Mysterial** · 04-25-2005, 02:03 AM

Also, how do you allow players to switch teams?? There is an option for players to request a team change. And when I'm hosting and a player chooses that option, I get a message that player X wants to change teams. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing I can do about it. How can a player change teams?

If someone from the other team also presses Change Team, the two players will swap places.

**legacy-ictatha** · 04-25-2005, 02:36 AM

"The ready screen is not ment to adjust settings, you do that before the game is initiated."

Fair enough, I'm new to Unreal. Maybe this is how it has always been with Unreal. But every other game I've played on XBL has a similar screen where you are waiting to go into the match (or race, or whatever), and at that screen you can change your options (car, track, weapons, bot difficulty, etc). The changes you make at that point are for the match you are about to enter. So it isn't like it's impossible.

Maybe this is because maps/bots/etc are loaded before that screen instead of after. In my opinion, I'd rather have the loading after this screen so I can make changes before every match.

"Perhaps you don't have eneough bots unlocked to play with more than four?"

I guessing this was in response to the 'vs. bot' issues. My point was that it did work (so I obviously had enough bots unlocked), even though the menu said it wasn't possible. Not a big deal since I can get it to work, just weird that it's so inconsistent.

"If someone from the other team also presses Change Team, the two players will swap places."

What if I need a player to switch teams with a bot? That is the situation I was in. Is there a way to make a bot switch teams? Or... what if I want unbalanced teams? Six people enter the arena, so the teams are 3 on 3. What if I want someone to switch and make it 4 on 2?

This is another example of something that other games do just fine, but for some reason it is a hassle (maybe even impossible) in UC2. This is unfortunate, because I absolutely love the game. But it can be frustrating to setup and manage an online game.

**legacy-augy** · 04-25-2005, 07:21 AM

He's really right about this. The menus are tough to navigate, and as somebody said before, slow. It's like there's a forced delay as a menu comes up before you can select the option you want. When you're fihgting a match and have to manage players as the host, it's really aggravating to have to deal with the menus.
From what i've read and experienced, the online experience (which is undoubtedly what the UT franchise and reputation is founded upon) for UC2 is shaping up to be dissapointing. It's a few days in, but I've got faith in Epic to fix it. They've been a community centered company in the past, we'll see if they follow through on uc2.

**Mysterial** · 04-25-2005, 10:40 AM

What if I need a player to switch teams with a bot? That is the situation I was in. Is there a way to make a bot switch teams? Or... what if I want unbalanced teams? Six people enter the arena, so the teams are 3 on 3. What if I want someone to switch and make it 4 on 2?

We don't allow unbalanced teams in net play because most people would exploit it to all join the winning team, team up on one or two random other people on the other team, etc. In this case, we felt it's better to be missing the feature than try to deal with all the people who will abuse it.

**legacy-Nightland3r** · 04-25-2005, 10:43 AM

well then fix the leaving game proses so if u leave a game right before u are about to lose a game u also lose points for it

**Mysterial** · 04-25-2005, 12:29 PM

Since wins are only a small part of the rank calculation, leaving the game when you're about to lose doesn't really change much. Plus, it adds a disconnect to your stats, which I think is also factored in.

**legacy-Nightland3r** · 04-25-2005, 01:43 PM

ok i c what u are saying its just get very triedsom to play 2 ppl that are godlike and u own them and they leave right before thegame is over is u dont get barly any points for it if they just stayed they would lose points any u would gain them

**legacy-ictatha** · 04-25-2005, 03:44 PM

"We don't allow unbalanced teams in net play because most people would exploit it to all join the winning team, team up on one or two random other people on the other team, etc. In this case, we felt it's better to be missing the feature than try to deal with all the people who will abuse it."

Ok, so that's a choice you (Epic) made. Just to voice my opinion though, I think this should've been left up to the game host. If people were switching teams and the host didn't want unbalanced play, he/she could tell people to move back to the other team. If they don't, then the host can kick them out. This is how things worked in Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow, and I never had any problems with it.

This seems like an option geared towards "better" stats. Maybe some people are into that. I prefer maximum game flexibility. I think it's more fun to have the flexibility to setup whatever I want (even if it's crazy and might screw up the holy stats). I guess my goal when I play video games is to have fun, not build stats. But that's just me, I'm sure plenty of people play for stats and that is fun for them.

Anyway, you didn't answer my other question. How can a player switch teams with a bot?

Another question: what if the teams are already unbalanced (odd number of players) and the odd person needs to switch teams? Maybe this just works when the person requests the team change. I just thought of this situation and haven't actually tried it yet...

**Mysterial** · 04-25-2005, 03:59 PM

Anyway, you didn't answer my other question. How can a player switch teams with a bot?

In most cases (and never if you're in players vs bots mode) the player will be allowed to switch and then the bot will switch to the opposite team as soon as it finishes whatever it's currently doing (or dies).

Another question: what if the teams are already unbalanced (odd number of players) and the odd person needs to switch teams? Maybe this just works when the person requests the team change. I just thought of this situation and haven't actually tried it yet...

Then they simply switch teams. It's only a request to swap when the teams are balanced with humans; otherwise, it should just change the player's team with no fuss.