Epic: Tips in getting into the Video Game Industry

[ChaosKnight]

Dear Epic games,

I'm writing this to help me and everyone who wants to get into the game industry and wishes to know or hear stories on how the guys at epic got their jobs and how they would recommend starting preparing for the industry and what they should do and don’t do.

Please Epic; enlighten us with your stories. (People please ask questions here too... i hope Epic responds and helps us out)

Here are some of my questions i would like to ask,
I love games; I want to be a game designer. I enjoy writing long stories, drawing free hand (mostly faces and bodies) and even photoshoping images and I’m slowly learning how to 3D model (Maya is a bit more friendlier to me... 3D max feels a bit complicated hehe).

But I want to know. How important is Video game schools? Like If there was a program I would take it would be "Game Art & Design" BUT that seems to cost the most money ($21 000 CDN for a one year diploma at Vanarts in Vancouver >.< quite a bit of money). So I want to know... what happens if I train myself with tutorials, books and DVDs (i got a big book for Maya and a couple DVD's) and i recieve the same amount of information and skills as someone would get from school (maybe even more ^_^)? How much will my chances of getting a good video game design job be compared to taking a $20 000 course? Cuz I really want to work for a video game company and the two closest that look fun are Bioware and Silicon Knights (Calgary and St Cathreens, Ontario)... of course I would love to to work for Epic... but I'm sorry, I have no plan in moving to the states yet... hehe.

Also could you recommend any good schools? Like with a decent residence plan in both USA and Canada (I’m just a graduate high school kid here! Hehe)?

Any other questions from others please post them here.

[Zoso Fan]

Here is a little rant by Cliffy B on this topic:
http://www.cliffyb.com/rants/how-to-get-hired.shtml

(I think it covers all your questions )

[ChaosKnight]

Here is a little rant by Cliffy B on this topic:
http://www.cliffyb.com/rants/how-to-get-hired.shtml

(I think it covers all your questions )

Yea i read that a while ago but it doesnt really answer my question to the fullest
I want to know my chances... i know degrees and diplomas are important but what
are my chances of getting in without one, do they like look at it and put it at the bottom
of the people who DO have degrees? or what?

(also congrats to you Zoso to hitting the 1000's... in less than a month feels a bit... disturbing cuz the most i've ever posted on a forum a month is 500, but congrats man)

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

In terms of game design schools, I would say they aren't necessary if you are self motivated and are able to teach yourself what you need to know. If you want to do everything (level design/code/game design/texturing/3d modeling), then maybe going to a school is a good thing so you can figure out which 1-2 of those you want to focus on.

Honestly, you don't need to do everything. As a level designer, you don't even have to be able to do your own models and textures anymore. Not to say that it wouldn't help, but if learning to model and texture is distracting you from becoming a good level designer, drop it and focus on what is most important to you. It's better to be good at one thing than to be mediocre at everything.

Online portfolios with downloadable content help a lot. Showing that you've worked with a mod or a team of people helps as well.

In the end what matters is skill level in the field in which you are applying for a position. Basically, school doesn't matter, but if school helps you get better or if it gives you direction, it might be helpful if you can afford it.

[Zoso Fan]

The thing about the industry is that it kinda sounds like a risky job to persue. Ive been hesitant to try to work in the field of videogames because i dont think it will pay enough initially for me to continue without going into debt. Where do you usually start in the industry and can i afford it!

[Joe Wilcox]

Regarding Gaming School: It’s my feeling that as an industry, we still put more emphasis on portfolio and work experience vs formal education when it comes down to hiring someone. So I don’t think a resume/portfolio from someone who graduated with a gaming degree would be weighted much differently than someone with a normal CIS/ART/whatever degree or even someone who is self taught. But I do get the feeling this is slowly changing, especially at the larger houses.

That’s not to say gaming schools are a bad thing. They are really good at helping someone learn the basics and some are really good at helping people get used to the team dynamic that usually is found in this industry. So think of it as a notch, but not a trump card.

Portfolio will always trump education. If you have a demonstrated body of work that shows you excel, I don’t think doors will close to you. So go ahead and self-learn everything. If you have the skill, people will hire you.

As for getting a foot in the door, I still feel the best way to start is get in the mod scene and get noticed. NOTE: Get noticed does not mean create a counter-strike clone! It does not mean join 10 mods and complete none of them! If you’re a programmer, start small: a weapon here, a neat feature there and build up your portfolio and your experience. If you are an artist, take the same slow approach. Create a map here, a model there. You don’t have to reinvent the world, you just need to show both the skill and the desire to get it done.

Joining mod groups can be a slippery slope. There are great mod teams out there and all are looking for help. But I’m going to guess and say maybe 1 in 5 mods are released let alone finished and polished. So unless you are sure of the team or your ability to help them get to that final product, you probably want to stay clear and concentrating on a collection of small mods/changes.


Now, if you are looking for a good mod scene to get involved with, why not consider UT2004! UnrealEngine has a large number of licensees always looking for skilled designers and programmers. Heck, we have a ton of open positions ourselves.

[joeGraf]

If you plan on being a programmer, don't go to one of those game schools. Go to a traditional university and get a CS education. We've yet to have a candidate from one of the non-traditional universities pass our programming test. Also, the average career in the games industry only lasts 5 years, so it's important to have a good education to fall back on.

[ChaosKnight]

Blah Programming? Who wants to learn to program or learn a new language >.< lol jk :P but i would rather learn Japanese ^_^

But thanks for all the info guys! this is actually helping. I had another question but I cant remember it >.> well i guess thats why i posted this thread, ill post another question later.

[RIGOR_MORTIS]

What would you say to a guy like me who has been programming Java the past 7 years? I'm a Lead Software Engineer (for a major car rental company) who is responsible for leading the team to get projects done and done well. I thought I saw Java experience was listed with you guys, although I didn't think Java was used at all in games. Any suggestions?

[Joe Wilcox]

Unfortunately Java isn't really suited for game development. I would say learn C++. The lead background and general programming skills would carry over, but without a solid C++ foundation it would be harder to get the foot in the door.

Also same general advice. In your spare time, learn UScript and C++ and join a mod group. Develop something and get noticed.

[Koric101]

Just curious, why is the average career in the game industry only 5 years? Is it because of the job opportunities or because they just don't wanna do it anymore?

[joeGraf]

Most people leave after 5 years because of burnout.

[Zoso Fan]

Most people leave after 5 years because of burnout.

Ya, that game ruins everything... just kidding. I had a friend who tried to be in the buisness but the game he worked on failed and it took him a long time to find another job in the same field of work. Thats why my dream to work in the buisness always seems to be more of a pipedream.

[j-wrell]

im only in high school, and i want to get a little bit of game design/programming/level design expierience before i graduate. what would you suggest for me? Some sort of DarkBasic program?

[Lee3dee]

(saw the link on PlanetUnreal)

Having been trying to get into the gaming industry myself for a few years now, and finally landing a level designer job developing for Unreal Engine 3

I would highly recommend to anyone who wants to get into the game industy particularly as an artist, treat your portfolio as a job. I worked on my portfolio everyday and weekend for almost 6 months after work everyday. My goal was to get the artwork upto a standard where it looked as good as most games developed using UT2004 Engine. Now that most new games are "Next-Gen" learning normal mapping is very important.

I'm not sure about programming, but as an artist companies looked at my portfolio 1st and resume 2nd.

Hope that helps for anyone interested.

[j-wrell]

what exactly do you mean by "portfolio."
thanks

[KoKoS]

a collection of stuff that you made, for instance: maps you made previously or pieces of code

[TipsyMonk]

Thanks alot. This thread helps me alot. I go to Collins College for Game Design. I consider myself pretty well rounded as far as design and programming. I really enjoy the art aspect, in fact, that's really all I do in our projects. It's good to know that I can learn from the company. I think my biggest problem is going to a company and being a rookie. I'd hate to be a burden. But I pick up really quick, so this really helps. Thanks, good thread.

[Chicken_Pot_Pie]

a collection of stuff that you made, for instance: maps you made previously or pieces of code

Yeah I tend to think of it as a bag of tricks. A package of your finest constructs designed to do nothing less than leave your on lookers in awe.

[Armanguy]

This topic really grabbed my eye over at cgtalk, I a few questions myself. I always enjoyed gaming since i was a little kid and my goal was to work in the game industry a too long ago i applied at the art institute of vancouver burnaby, but after reading some articles and listening to students that finished the program over there i felt like. the way that they teach over there isent so great and i could achieve more by myself so i withdrew my application. I currently work on Jurassic Rage a ut2004 mod as a world modeler. I make props for the maps. Im also working on side projects for my portfolio wich include organic models and mechanical models. What i want to ask is did i do the right thing in withdrawing my application? i want to teach myself how to model and texture and have bought all the software that i need saving thousands without going to art school wich costs $32,000.

[Joe Wilcox]

No, I'd suggest you go straight for C++. You can start out pretty cheaply with Microsoft Visual Studio Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/). While not full featured it's good enough to learn on and close enough to the real envrionment you would be working in. And it's free.

You can also student editions of MS Visual Studio for $50-$150 depending on the version as long as you have a student id. It's a great way to start.

Basic (dark or VB) and Pascal are really easy to learn and great for small projects, but aren't really the background you want.

[Lupus]

Hi, first time on these forums

Do you have any advice for people from outside the US getting a job in it? I'm looking to apply to companies, and most of the ones I want to work at are in the US, but I'm from the UK (and currently living there).
Does this tend to be a major putoff for employers, especially now that there are fewer visas available?

Cheers

[j-wrell]

its not letting me download it

wait nevermind, i got it. thanks

[Trooper TK409]

Or you could do what I did...
http://www.TK409.com/gettingajob.html

.

[Lupus]

I read about that awhile ago. I hurt my back from laughing so hard.

For doing that I'd have definitely hired you, even if there wasn't a place, I'd have come up with one

There really aren't enough doormen in stormtrooper outfits are there?

[j-wrell]

hahahaha that is hillarious!!! that is soo cool. i need to get a sand trooper outfit and hitch hike my way to epic. Maybe i could go in as Mr. Skywalker, and we could duke it out in the middle of the building. haha. But i wouldnt want to injure you. ive been practicing my force.

So what exactly is your position at epic?

[Zoso Fan]

Or you could do what I did...
http://www.TK409.com/gettingajob.html

.

Thats awsome! Love the pic of you on cliffy's website BTW! Full costume!

[Chicken_Pot_Pie]

I read about that awhile ago. I hurt my back from laughing so hard.

For doing that I'd have definitely hired you, even if there wasn't a place, I'd have come up with one

There really aren't enough doormen in stormtrooper outfits are there?

haha even if it was putting him out side the door to stop futher nutcases from entering the premises.

[Armanguy]

This topic really grabbed my eye over at cgtalk, I a few questions myself. I always enjoyed gaming since i was a little kid and my goal was to work in the game industry a too long ago i applied at the art institute of vancouver burnaby, but after reading some articles and listening to students that finished the program over there i felt like. the way that they teach over there isent so great and i could achieve more by myself so i withdrew my application. I currently work on Jurassic Rage a ut2004 mod as a world modeler. I make props for the maps. Im also working on side projects for my portfolio wich include organic models and mechanical models. What i want to ask is did i do the right thing in withdrawing my application? i want to teach myself how to model and texture and have bought all the software that i need saving thousands without going to art school wich costs $32,000.

i was wondering if you could awnser my question? thankyou

[Trooper TK409]

So what exactly is your position at epic?

I'm the UI/HUD visual designer on both Gears and Unreal Tournament 2007.


.

i was wondering if you could awnser my question? thankyou

I majored in graphic design and learned 3d modeling here at Epic. I would definitely go to school. I wouldn't say it has to be that art school, but somewhere that has a dedicated program for what you want to do. I bet you can do it for cheaper than $32k. Check out local universities too. All game companies care about is what you can produce - your portfolio - they don't care whether you have a degree or what school you go to.

.

[j-wrell]

I'm the UI/HUD visual designer on both Gears and Unreal Tournament 2007.

Lucky!! i want to have your job. When you retire, give me a call and ill gladly take your spot, free of charge.
Actually ill pay epic to let me work for them haha

[SnipaMasta]

I'm also interested at a job in the industry, but on the jobs page it says "game industry experience" in required. Do you just ignore applicants that have no experience, or do you give preference to those with it?

Also, how critical would 3d Studio Max knowledge be? I mean, I can model (barely) in it, but I prefer to use other applications (low-end ones ). If I wanted to get a job at Epic, would I need to be able to get my models INTO Max, or would it be required to make them in the program?

[j-wrell]

yeah i was looking at that too. i bet they want you to be firmiliar with some of the programs. Like c++, 3d studio max 8, or some other software. thats what im guessing.

[Zoso Fan]

I read about that awhile ago. I hurt my back from laughing so hard.

For doing that I'd have definitely hired you, even if there wasn't a place, I'd have come up with one

There really aren't enough doormen in stormtrooper outfits are there?

Lopus, your stuff using the half life 2 engine is great! How much are you getting payed to do that? Or is it basicly for fun/ street credit/ stuff to add to portfolio?

[Trooper TK409]

I'm also interested at a job in the industry, but on the jobs page it says "game industry experience" in required. Do you just ignore applicants that have no experience, or do you give preference to those with it?

Also, how critical would 3d Studio Max knowledge be? I mean, I can model (barely) in it, but I prefer to use other applications (low-end ones ). If I wanted to get a job at Epic, would I need to be able to get my models INTO Max, or would it be required to make them in the program?

If you can make it, it doesn't matter what program you used. Here, we use everything. When I applied they were looking for a motion graphics designer. I presented my portfolio which has a lot of motion design and regular static design. I don't have a degree, but I went to school and learned all I could about design, and produced some decent stuff. I worked for 8 years doing graphic design, before I got the job here. Some guys get the job right out of school - but they're amazing artists.

If you don't have game industry experience, getting involved with learning how to mod games is helpful - modeling, texturing, etc. Look at what Lupus is doing. Unreal Tournament 2004 shipped with the Unreal Editor, so if you learn how to use that tool, you would be using the same tool we use. A big plus! But like I said, knowing tools is only part of what builds your portfolio. You need to read, play games, watch movies, have some creative sense - think about what game YOU would produce, the story, the characters, the vehicles, the setting, the mood, the color, the music, the point of view of the player, the feel and look of the weapons, the physics of the players, the makeup of the environment, how you want the player to feel, to act, or the ultimate point of the game.

Think about those things, not just "what tool am I going to use?" Have thoughts. Be creative. You can learn the tools along the way.


.

[Zoso Fan]

If you can make it, it doesn't matter what program you used. Here, we use everything. When I applied they were looking for a motion graphics designer. I presented my portfolio which has a lot of motion design and regular static design. I don't have a degree, but I went to school and learned all I could about design, and produced some decent stuff. I worked for 8 years doing graphic design, before I got the job here. Some guys get the job right out of school - but they're amazing artists.

If you don't have game industry experience, getting involved with learning how to mod games is helpful - modeling, texturing, etc. Look at what Lupus is doing. Unreal Tournament 2004 shipped with the Unreal Editor, so if you learn how to use that tool, you would be using the same tool we use. A big plus! But like I said, knowing tools is only part of what builds your portfolio. You need to read, play games, watch movies, have some creative sense - think about what game YOU would produce, the story, the characters, the vehicles, the setting, the mood, the color, the music, the point of view of the player, the feel and look of the weapons, the physics of the players, the makeup of the environment, how you want the player to feel, to act, or the ultimate point of the game.

Think about those things, not just "what tool am I going to use?" Have thoughts. Be creative. You can learn the tools along the way.


.

My underlined area shows how much EPIC supports their fanbase! I am copying and pasting alot of this advice into a file so i can go back to it! EXTREMELY informing!

[GearsManiac123]

My underlined area shows how much EPIC supports their fanbase! I am copying and pasting alot of this advice into a file so i can go back to it! EXTREMELY informing!

now that i saw the underlined section that i somehow read over, i need to go buy UC '04! i know, its sad that i dont already have it! but now i need to go get it just for the UrE (Unreal Editor). thanks Trooper! you've been a BIG help for everybody here! keep up the good repsonses!

[Lupus]

@ Zoso Fan: Cheers No money I'm afraid, looking to find somwhere I can make some though hehe. It's work for a mod and to add to my portfolio. And hoping a game based on Unreal Engine 3 comes out in the not too distant future so I can stick some of my stuff in it and see it looking it's best

@TK409: When you say you guys use everything there, is that the same for each area? I mean; modellers using different packages to create models isn't much of a problem since you can just export to other packages easily enough, but for stuff like animators I'd imagine using different programs would be a problem. Is this the case at Epic or do the animators all just use what they want, then load the animations into the game?

@ChaosKnight: (Bear in mind this is from someone NOT in the industry). The majority of people in the industry I've seen talk on the subject have said the portfolio far outweighs the CV/resume. Which also seems to be a general trend (from what I've heard) with software packages, because if someone is amazing, it shouldn't be too hard to reshape them a bit to better fit into the pipeline, whether they are coming from a different software package or don't have a bit of paper saying they can do the work (since they've SHOWN they can do it in the portfolio).
Sorry, that was quite a long sentence.

Or to summarise, think about it this way:

Pay $32k for a bit of paper that MIGHT get you a job

or

Pay much less for a stormtrooper outfit that WILL get you a job

[Chicken_Pot_Pie]

[monologue]

There are a lot of small details that we all want to know but I think the bottom line is that, Epic is all about hiring people who kicks ass, people who have portfollios that Kick ass, why is this? Because Epic takes nothing less and believes its consumers deserve nothing less. Its not just about how well you can use an editor, or how well you can script or how spectacular you can model, Its how you can take an artistic medium and bridge that gap between this world and the world in that head of yours and kick ass while doing it.

So when you put that pen to paper, or your fingers to the key board let nothing be your drive other than the thought of how your going to shake the world.

Even if you dont get hired by a single company you will have never let yourself down, and thats what the Chicken calls kickin ass.

[/monologue]

[j-wrell]

Trooper TK, what are some of the programs or software that you would suggest we use on the things that we would put into our portfolio?
What did you have?