Super-High Ping Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[legacy-Quantium G]

Does anybody know what the minimum internet speed needed to play UT2k4 at? I have a wireless DSL line, running at 390/240, and everytime I go to play ONS, my ping maxes out at 988, and makes the game pretty much unplayable. Now, sometimes, If I just sit and wait, it'll come back down, but most of the time, it never drops back down. Does anybody have any idea on how to fix this? I would assume that 390/240 should be able to play the game no problem.:cry:

[legacy-{Infamous}Mr.J]

Check to make sure that you dont have any viruses or spy ware running, that maybe causing you to have low ping times, do you have a firewall? If so try disabling it. thats about all I can think of at the moment. Hope it helps my friend.

[legacy-Sgt_Morrison]

Originally posted by Quantium G
Does anybody know what the minimum internet speed needed to play UT2k4 at? I have a wireless DSL line, running at 390/240, and everytime I go to play ONS, my ping maxes out at 988, and makes the game pretty much unplayable. Now, sometimes, If I just sit and wait, it'll come back down, but most of the time, it never drops back down. Does anybody have any idea on how to fix this? I would assume that 390/240 should be able to play the game no problem.:cry:

post up your specs of your DSL connection, where u coming from, what servers do you join?

ping in constantly changing on everyones PC's, it depends on the network, how many users are online, how many hops you take to receive the data in...

not going to go too technical for you.

[legacy-fishbone]

Originally posted by Quantium G
I would assume that 390/240 should be able to play the game no problem.:cry:

Remember that connection bandwidth and latency are two very different things.
You could have a satellite connection of 2 mbps but that means squat when latency is close to 900 ms.
How far are you from the access point? Do you have a router? Is it a Linksys? If yes, many people are having similar issues with this router, and I don't mean just people that play UT 2004.
At this point I would suggest you try a wired connection and see what the difference is.
Also, while in game, bring down the console and type stat net. Any packets dropped?

[legacy-Quantium G]

It's a wireless DSL system, PC to wireless modem, to wireless transmitter/reciever, 200 yards away outside to repeater tower, then to local servers. I use I-2000, a regionally based internet company here in Michigan. The servers I play on mostly are the {DI} servers, since I'm a clan member, and they are:

1. 66.165.108.102 - Located in Collinsville, ILL
2. 69.13.36.162 - Located in Bedford, TX

Now, using VisualRoute, I was able to actually see the path followed to these servers, and where the lags where. Route #1 had an average ping time of 173ms, where #2 was 131ms.
Both servers have an average of 8-10 jumps. Hey Morrison, give me some technical, I can digest it. :P
Fishbone, with distance to access point, do you mean distance to the local servers? It's about 3/4 of a mile. No router, just straight connection to the internet. Also, I was watching the "In/Out" speeds during play the other night, and am I correct in thinking that in order to have a decent "playable" ping time, the "In" has to be higher then the "Out"? Because, the other night, it was like 500/2400.:noob:
Also, is it normal, when logging into a server, that the route there makes jumps that go nowhere? Like when I traced the route to server #2, it has 14 jumps, but not all the jumps follow the main server line. It goes from Wyoming, MI, to Detroit, then out of Detroit, it splits into 2 lines, with the main "server" route going to Washington DC, while another line just goes to New Jersey and stops. Same thing out of Washington, it splits into 2, with the main line going to TX, while another line goes to Denver, and just stops. Why does it do this? And is this responsible for the ping times?

[legacy-TKATk]

i have a modem speed isdn,my ping reaches 900 too,on servers that are from the place i live,sort games by ping and you should get a good serv or 2

[legacy-fishbone]

I'm pretty confident it's the connection from your PC up to the local servers. It seems it's going through a significant wireless distance, count in the repeater tower ... ugh. I will forever remain skeptical of wireless conectivity when it comes to latency-sensitive apps such as games.
When I said distance to access point I meant your computer to your wireless modem or switch/router. Can you make it a wired connection from your PC to your modem? You at least have that much control over matters. From there on, I don't know. I'd keep my eyes on Visualroute, try different destinations maybe. 173 ms for just a traceroute does seem a bit high. It's definitely not right for the route to go two places at the same time. It may attempt another route and then quit. Is it constantly doing this at the same point?
As far as ping times, if outbound ping times are significantly higher, it won't help because generally speaking servers wait a bit for client response before sending out more packets.
Are you seeing any packet loss in netstat [in-game]?

[legacy-Quantium G]

Yes, everything from my PC to the wireless transmitter/reciever is hardwired. I did check my net stats (which is also shown just by pressing F6), and I did have packet loss in the range of 30, spiking to 50 once I started running around. When I first entered the match, as long as I just stood still, there was a ping of around 180 I think. But once I started moving, it just skyrockets, like usual, to 988. Yes, the 2 times that I did the trace route for server #2, it did the branching thing each time, same points.

[legacy-fishbone]

Get in touch with the UT server admin and ask them to do a traceroute to you from their end.
But please answer this: is UT2k4 the only game with this problem?

[legacy-DaPlayer1]

could the wireless be part of the problem?

[Folk]

If your ping using Visual Route or any other type of ping/trace tool is good, then the problem is with the game.

What about pings to other UT2004 servers? Are all servers giving you high pings?

The UT netcode has always coughed up confusing pings. Regular ping is one number, server browser ping is another number, and then in-game ping when connected to a server is yet another number and they all seem to get progressively higher. I've played the original UT since '99 and ping has always been a little weird, but UT2004's pings are truly weird. I can get 69 ping in the server browser yet have over 200 ping when I actually connect to the server. It makes finding a decent server very difficult.

[legacy-Sgt_Morrison]

Originally posted by Quantium G
It's a wireless DSL system, PC to wireless modem, to wireless transmitter/reciever, 200 yards away outside to repeater tower, then to local servers. I use I-2000, a regionally based internet company here in Michigan. The servers I play on mostly are the {DI} servers, since I'm a clan member, and they are:

1. 66.165.108.102 - Located in Collinsville, ILL
2. 69.13.36.162 - Located in Bedford, TX

Now, using VisualRoute, I was able to actually see the path followed to these servers, and where the lags where. Route #1 had an average ping time of 173ms, where #2 was 131ms.
Both servers have an average of 8-10 jumps. Hey Morrison, give me some technical, I can digest it. :P
Fishbone, with distance to access point, do you mean distance to the local servers? It's about 3/4 of a mile. No router, just straight connection to the internet. Also, I was watching the "In/Out" speeds during play the other night, and am I correct in thinking that in order to have a decent "playable" ping time, the "In" has to be higher then the "Out"? Because, the other night, it was like 500/2400.:noob:
Also, is it normal, when logging into a server, that the route there makes jumps that go nowhere? Like when I traced the route to server #2, it has 14 jumps, but not all the jumps follow the main server line. It goes from Wyoming, MI, to Detroit, then out of Detroit, it splits into 2 lines, with the main "server" route going to Washington DC, while another line just goes to New Jersey and stops. Same thing out of Washington, it splits into 2, with the main line going to TX, while another line goes to Denver, and just stops. Why does it do this? And is this responsible for the ping times?

Okay if i go into a lot of technical detail i will lose people here, but i ran some tests from here to reach your Servers IP addresses.

the second one was unreachable, either the server was switched off. the first gave me a packet (small test pieces of information) loss of around 100%

i beleive the resulting ping difference is because your using wireless modem rather than a plug in one.

Heres a couple of points, you might find problems with running both upload and downloading information at the same time, ie, when playing games, packets go to and from the server and your PC. im sure the problems exist with the way your connecting to the servers.

Like i said, if you want a more detailed reason why this is happening, you need to do several things,

provide the make and model of the following

i) network card
2) OS
3) Wireless DSL modem model, software version
4) PC modem model and software version
5) ISP's details, (ports and such) this is not important (ie security risk)
6) Hops (via traceroute)



I ran neo-Traceroute (version 3.25) and reached the node after 122ms. using 600k cable modem.

im sure, Quantum that the problem your facing is the fact your playing over a wireless modem. Get in contact with your ISP and see if they can improve your connection speed, by increasing the upload and download stream.

[legacy-fishbone]

Originally posted by Sgt_Morrison
i beleive the resulting ping difference is because your using wireless modem rather than a plug in one.

He already stated his connection is hardwired to the modem:

Originally posted by Quantium G
Yes, everything from my PC to the wireless transmitter/reciever is hardwired.

Originally posted by Sgt_Morrison
Get in contact with your ISP and see if they can improve your connection speed, by increasing the upload and download stream.

I doubt that will help because as I've stated above, bandwidth and latency are two different things.

[legacy-Quantium G]

Ok, I can probably answer some of those questions, but the company's hardware might be kinda tricky since it's their hardware, and not just commercial. Hey, you guys think if I switched the wireless modem for a commercial one, I might gain a little better signal (since it might be more powerful?). Anyways,

1. I use the RJ-45 port on my MB, Soyo Dragon Lite.
2. Windows XP Pro
3. Realtek RTL 8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC, newest version
4. No modem required in this case, the above handles all data transfer
5. Not a big deal
6. Hops -
Server #1 - 9 Hops, 114ms average, 154max - Zark Server
Server #2 - 15 Hops, 162ms average, 210max - ONS Server

And something really nice happened last night, we had tryouts for the clan, so we had the server "locked down", meaning requiring a password, and I had really nice ping times, like 108-120. Kinda weird huh? That made me wonder if the ping times were because of some server setting or something.

[legacy-fishbone]

Traceroute pretty much shows you where the high ping times occur. Since they're not at hop 1 I doubt it's your ISP hardware.
Again, is UT2004 the only game that behaves this way, because Folk's statements about UT's netcode are valid.
It could also be the server's fault.

[legacy-Rectal Prolapse]

I used to work for a company that manufactured wireless modems...and I found that they may seem to have decent ping, in reality, with the number of packets UT2K4 needs to send and receive, your latency WILL skyrocket, because the wireless connection will get saturated by lots of little packets. Typically a wireless modem is optimized for throughput, meaning it can only handle a small number of large-sized packets at a time.

However, sending dozens of little 64 byte packets per second will kill your wireless performance...I bet your wireless setup is buffering those dozens of packets, then sending them off once enough are collected -> HUGE PING TIMES.

For example: UT2K4 server wants to send you 100 packets of sized (for example) 64 bytes each. Well, to optimize for bandwidth, the wireless server will NOT send you those packets as they come in, but will instead hold them for a little while, collecting a bunch of them, and when it feels it has enough, will send them all at once in a big burst. This will kill your performance!

Conclusion: Ditch the wireless...Or maybe you can play with MTU sizes, or figure out how to configure your wireless modem such that you remove the buffering...

[legacy-Quantium G]

Pretty much Fish. I used to play SOF2 online as well, and I had modest ping times, but that was because the servers I always played on were in England. :P
Another thing also, is that this super ping crap just started about 2 weeks ago. Up until this point, I was playing UT2k3, as well as UT2k4 when it first came out, with no problems at all. I think I might fiddle around with Dr. TCP a little, and see what happens. For the MTU, should I reduce the #, or increase it?

[legacy-fishbone]

Reduce it, that way the router won't wait for it to fill before it will send it out.

[legacy-Quantium G]

Well, after messing around with the settings using Dr. Tcp, I think I've gotten things worked out. Using a TCPRW of 50,000, and lowering the MTU to 50, I've achieved these improvements:

Server #1 - 66.165.108.102 - Located in Collinsville, ILL
Before: 114ms avg., 154ms max
Now: 70ms avg., 130ms max

Server #2 - 69.13.36.162 - Located in Bedford, TX
Before: 162ms avg., 210ms max
Now: 127ms avg., 167 max

So, I think things should show improvement. I haven't tested these new settings in the game yet, but I'll let you know if things get any better.

[legacy-Quantium G]

Update:

Ok, I think I've narrowed the problem down to something wrong with UT2k4 itself. I've tried Warcraft 3, SOF2, and UT2k3, and all 3 of them play without a hitch during online play, most notably UT2k3, since I play it at 1600x1200. Any more ideas?

[legacy-r1ps]

you may find better help here

http://www.dslreports.com/main

gl

[legacy-Quantium G]

Already know about that site, it's where I do speed tests and other things. However, I have some new information on this issue, that somebody might be able to make some sense out of. Tonight I was playing, and I was monitoring my in and out speeds and whatnot, and I asked some of the other players if they're should be such a huge gap in numbers between the IN speed and the OUT speed. They're answer was "no", so this might be the source of the ping out's and just general stupidness while playing online. As an example when I was playing tonight, my IN speed was something like 9,500-10,500 while my OUT speed was 1,000-1,800. Any ideas on how to correct this problem or just some useful info?