Shieldgun question/request for UT2004

[legacy-Nosnos]

I'm a pretty decent player I am as they say a competetive player not on the highest level but I do know my way around the maps and weapons. I'm also an admin of the biggest 1on1 league in Scandinavia, http://www.scandinavianopen.net/,which means that I'm frequently discussing the game with some of the best players this game has to offer regarding 1on1...

Now... the only thing people seem to "complain" about is the shieldgun, not the fact that it excists but because its to easy to use and overpowered. Many seems to think that its has way to much ammo and the fact that it recharges makes it just way to useful. Please note that this is only regarding 1on1, its just fine for TDM and for CTF its an escential part as a flagrunner...

Anyhow, we had a discussion about this a couple of nights ago and we came to some cunclusions... 1on1 is too defensive, much because of the shieldgun since you can run away for an entire round just protecting yourself since it regenerates all the time... To completely deplet it is too difficult when you are playing against a player who is skillful with it... Now I'm all for the fact that weapons become more powerful in the hands of a skillfull player but not when this weapon is so defensive as the shieldgun is... 1on1 should be about seek and destroy not about running away... imo

Oh I'm just going on and on here without getting to the point so here it comes... Would it be possible for you to include a mut in UT2004 that makes the Shieldgun use normal ammopickups instead of regenerating itself? And since adrenaline isnt used in 1on1 couldnt the adrenaline pills turn into shieldammo? I think this would make the shieldgun less overpowered since you would think twice about using it to much. I know that this doesnt have to be an official mutator but I just thought I'd ask

If there is someone out there who can make such a mutator it would be nice to try it out how it works in practice rather than in theory

[legacy-Master-Yodaa]

Nicely put forward with reasoning
I hope you get your Mutator :up:

[legacy-Morba]

i think its a joke how you have shield pickups, and then a full shield as a weapon.....

still, a better option would be to have ammo pickups much like armor shards in q3.

[legacy-ErecT]

Nosnos my darling! Remember I did a survey on your homepage regarding shieldgun. Most good players like/love it if TWM is used.

[legacy-Tunnis]

My proposal would be to completely remove the shieldgun from 1on1, or at least make it the default setting for duels. I don't like the whole idea of the shieldgun anyway, especially in it's current state: a more appropriate name for it would be "R4ndom Gun".

This stupid shield takes away a lot of the rewards you have from having a superior idea of where you're enemy is. Much less chance to catch someone off guard.

[legacy-Nosnos]

We got like 6-7 votes If you talk to people on IRC you will know better how they feel about it... and the shieldgun is just fine for TDM and CTF... I just not fun to see scores like 6-1 or 3-2 all the time... Imo the most important thing in 1on1 should be a persons attackinskills not his skills with the shieldgun and ability to run away...

But this is just something I would like to try out and many of the other players as well, if no one likes it then fine, we wont use it I simply think that the SG is a great idea but the balance in 1on1 is a bit wrong it puts more emphasis on defence rather then attack and that makes for boring games... its like seeing Norway playing against themselves in soccer

[legacy-Nosnos]

Originally posted by Tunnis
My proposal would be to completely remove the shieldgun from 1on1, or at least make it the default setting for duels. I don't like the whole idea of the shieldgun anyway, especially in it's current state: a more appropriate name for it would be "R4ndom Gun".

This stupid shield takes away a lot of the rewards you have from having a superior idea of where you're enemy is. Much less chance to catch someone off guard.

Use TWM 1.03 in duellmode... it completely removes the shieldgun...

[legacy-Tunnis]

Originally posted by Nosnos
Use TWM 1.03 in duellmode... it completely removes the shieldgun...

True....but it's much better if it the default setting in ut2k4....then people will play it. That twm version will never be accepted.

[legacy-Nosnos]

Originally posted by Tunnis
True....but it's much better if it the default setting in ut2k4....then people will play it. That twm version will never be accepted.

Yup, an officiall mutator would be good... I dont think it would take that much time to do either... for Epic that is... but we will see, one can only hope

[legacy-Kronon]

I agree (I listened to the IRC discussion as well, with Nosnos, 2kr, Hist and some other players).

As I see it, there are several ways to improve the shieldgun for 1-on-1:
1. Upgrade the shieldgun power to 200 and remove regeneration completely.
2. Remove regeneration and replace adrenaline with shieldgun-power (2/pill is probably appropriate).
3. Make the shieldgun only protect to 50%, so if you take 100 in damage the shieldgun will lose 100 in power, and you will lose 50 in health.

With 3D audio, good timing skills and good useage of the shieldgun, you can win a game on antalus by getting the first frag (that is, winning with 1-0). And thats not what I call an interesting game, nor is it very fun to play such a game, no matter if you are the one winning or losing.

/Kronon

[legacy-Tunnis]

Originally posted by Kronon
I agree (I listened to the IRC discussion as well, with Nosnos, 2kr, Hist and some other players).

As I see it, there are several ways to improve the shieldgun for 1-on-1:
1. Upgrade the shieldgun power to 200 and remove regeneration completely.
2. Remove regeneration and replace adrenaline with shieldgun-power (2/pill is probably appropriate).
3. Make the shieldgun only protect to 50%, so if you take 100 in damage the shieldgun will lose 100 in power, and you will lose 50 in health.

With 3D audio, good timing skills and good useage of the shieldgun, you can win a game on antalus by getting the first frag (that is, winning with 1-0). And thats not what I call an interesting game, nor is it very fun to play such a game, no matter if you are the one winning or losing.

/Kronon

Good points here, except for point three, which i don't really like. Even though i wouldn't cry if the darn Shield was removed completely.
Come to think of it, i remember an old shield discussion on Esr. Shaggy said he tested the shield which DE made, and Epic removed from the final version of UT2k3. The shield described by Shaggy sounded kinda nice. Now let's see if i can find that thread.

[legacy-Funk-O-Potomous]

Shield gun is pretty lame in CTF too, too overpowered. A guy on offense can sometimes grab the flag, pop the shield up and manage to get out of the base solo, without firing a single shot. Getting a cap should rely on teamwork and/or skill, not some dinky gun.

There are so many possible solutions for this problem

1) Completely remove secondary fire from CTF

2)Removing the recharge so that once the ammo is depleted, its useless

3) Only being able to use the SG for a brief time ( 1 or 2 seconds) and then must wait 5 (?) seconds before using it again. Sort of like the secondary of the Impact Hammer in UT1 only it lasts longer, covers more area, and can block all damage.

4) Slowing the recharge rate.

[legacy-Multani]

I believe these tweaks should be done ti the shieldgun to balance it and made the game less defensive:
It should deplete faster.
And Recharge slower.

I'm not giving the magnitudes of these changes but I believe there should be some tweaking done to make it less defensive, yet still good for short amounts of time.

[legacy-subsist]

My proposal is to remove the shield gun and armour, so we can just have a 100hp to 100hp duel, then ull see who has the real weapon skills and not timing, shieldgun whoring.........

[legacy-Nosnos]

Originally posted by Funk-O-Potomous
Shield gun is pretty lame in CTF too, too overpowered. A guy on offense can sometimes grab the flag, pop the shield up and manage to get out of the base solo, without firing a single shot. Getting a cap should rely on teamwork and/or skill, not some dinky gun.

There are so many possible solutions for this problem

1) Completely remove secondary fire from CTF

2)Removing the recharge so that once the ammo is depleted, its useless

3) Only being able to use the SG for a brief time ( 1 or 2 seconds) and then must wait 5 (?) seconds before using it again. Sort of like the secondary of the Impact Hammer in UT1 only it lasts longer, covers more area, and can block all damage.

4) Slowing the recharge rate.

Would that just make it even more difficult to make a cap? imo it should be easier to cap a flag since that will make the game more about offence and capturing more flags, rather than just capturing one flag and then whoring your own flagroom and win with 1-0?

It is more fun to reward the attacker than the defender imo since offensive and attacking play is what "most" people want to see...

And about taking out armour for 1on1... cant u just as well play 1on1 instagib if aim is all you want a game to be about? I really think that shieldgun is a great idea, you should be able to defend yourself if you are in a desperate situation, just not forever

[legacy-S0undwav3]

why not just reduce it's max and slow down it's regeneration?