Radeon 9800 Pro framerate issues.... sort of strange....

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 08:59 AM

...ok.... first... my system:

Pentium 4 2.0 ghz
768 DDR PC3200 RAM
ASUS P4P8X
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
SB Audigy gamer

ok.... this is the prob.... in outdoor areas in most games I get slowdowns... (Jedi Academy... UT2k3.... even UT1) odd thing in UT2k3 though.... in the framerate counter it says I might be getting about 35 or 40 frames.... but it looks much slower.... the image is moving much slower.....

(I have the latest drivers)

I suspect the same is happening for the other games as well....

It seems when large outdoor areas (with lots of details)...this happens...

any help?

**legacy-therealvader** · 09-24-2003, 09:12 AM

what resolution are you running at? AA and anisotropic filtering on?

your system should have enough horsepower, so thats a strange problem.

**legacy-A2597** · 09-24-2003, 09:22 AM

Power Supply?

**legacy-therealvader** · 09-24-2003, 09:25 AM

it just hit me. check the temps in your case. it sounds like your card might be overheating while trying to render big scenes

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 09:35 AM

well.... as far as PSU goes.... if it wasn't enough, I would be having a lot more problems..... (I have a 320 PSU.... the Radeon recommends 300 )

....the temp inside.... hmm... well, I'll take off the cover and then test the speeds.... see if it has to do with that.....

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 09:49 AM

nope. no difference. It's telling me that I'm getting 43 fps at the top of Face 3 on max detail...... but it feels more like 25......

...then I turn around... and it goes back to being smooth....

no AA or AF....

**legacy-deth502** · 09-24-2003, 09:56 AM

dude, try turning fastwites off in control panel. I was having similar problems and it fixed it for me

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 10:07 AM

really? I'll try that and see what happens...

**Emmet Otter** · 09-24-2003, 10:21 AM

Not only should you try to turn off fastwrites in you control panel, you will also need to turn it off in the bios. And aslo switch USWC to UC if you have it set to USWC. I found this makes no difference but give it a try.

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Reversion
Not only should you try to turn off fastwrites in you control panel, you will also need to turn it off in the bios. And aslo switch USWC to UC if you have it set to USWC. I found this makes no difference but give it a try.

I can't find it in the BIOS.... same for the UC, USWC thing......

....I turned it off in the control panel.... but it made no difference really....:sour:

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-24-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by dethmanrulz
...ok.... first... my system:

Pentium 4 2.0 ghz
768 DDR PC3200 RAM
ASUS P4P8X
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
SB Audigy gamer

ok.... this is the prob.... in outdoor areas in most games I get slowdowns... (Jedi Academy... UT2k3.... even UT1) odd thing in UT2k3 though.... in the framerate counter it says I might be getting about 35 or 40 frames.... but it looks much slower.... the image is moving much slower.....

(I have the latest drivers)

I suspect the same is happening for the other games as well....

It seems when large outdoor areas (with lots of details)...this happens...

any help?

lol i have the same prob...still aint sorted it yet..my specs are similar to yours but my fps is just total crap...and i feel that same thing where it says 30-40 fps but it feels more like 20-30 :bulb:

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by RipTheJacker
lol i have the same prob...still aint sorted it yet..my specs are similar to yours but my fps is just total crap...and i feel that same thing where it says 30-40 fps but it feels more like 20-30 :bulb:

maybe the Radeon 9800's don't like 2.0ghz chips....

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-24-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by dethmanrulz
maybe the Radeon 9800's don't like 2.0ghz chips....

Yeah..im lookin for a new one atm with a new mobo..all the latest are way 2 expensive so ill wait for the next intels to be released then see what happens to the price of everything else

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by RipTheJacker
Yeah..im lookin for a new one atm with a new mobo..all the latest are way 2 expensive so ill wait for the next intels to be released then see what happens to the price of everything else

yup... good idea... I just upgraded my mobo and RAM.... it just now needs a nice CPU to go along with it....

...unfortunately, I'm out of money....

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-24-2003, 04:36 PM

lol same..university is draining my bank account :s

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by RipTheJacker
lol same..university is draining my bank account :s

yup... uni is the problem here too....

legacy-[FSB]Med · 09-24-2003, 04:56 PM

Stick to Cat 3.4's.

I know.

Its not Fastwrites or Sideband.

I run Vsync OFF - Ani - OFF - AA - OFF, and guarantee no lower that 80FPS at 1600x1200 or below.

I recommend overclocking your 9800 a bit - helps with the heavy stuff. Remarkable gains for little overclock in fact.

Get "Rivatuner R2.0 Candidate 12.4" from www.guru3d.com. I have always used it with my 9800 and trust me it works.

And those who say why clock a 9800 are talking crap. You should get a 50Mhz Core clock easy without any extra cooling. You will gain at least a 10-15 FPS increase.

Mind you it could be the p42 holding you back, slow FSB aswell.

Must admit im held back by the 9800 speed

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-24-2003, 05:24 PM

nice Med..not to sure about OCing tho may give it a try..u know the weird thing is when i 1st got the card i got 60 fps on top of face 3 with default cd drivers..after installing new ati drivers i got 39 fps.... :S..also reformatted but that dont help :\
Higest i got on 3d2k3 was 5028..lowest was 3000 sumthing. Wierd :bulb: Inside on face i get 150 fps its jus when i look out then it drops all the way to 39..this is also true for a game with more then 4 people in..upgradin soon i hope tho

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-24-2003, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by RipTheJacker
nice Med..not to sure about OCing tho may give it a try..u know the weird thing is when i 1st got the card i got 60 fps on top of face 3 with default cd drivers..after installing new ati drivers i got 39 fps.... :S..also reformatted but that dont help :\
Higest i got on 3d2k3 was 5028..lowest was 3000 sumthing. Wierd :bulb: Inside on face i get 150 fps its jus when i look out then it drops all the way to 39..this is also true for a game with more then 4 people in..upgradin soon i hope tho

exactly the same as me!!!!!!!!

legacy-edudttam · 09-24-2003, 08:30 PM

Catalyst 3.8 drivers will be coming out Oct. 8.

http://www.ownage.eclipse.co.uk/ati_log.txt

Log comes from #rage3d on irc.programeplayer.com

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-24-2003, 10:36 PM

Strange, I have a 9800 pro on top of an AMD XP 2000+ and I can maintain great frame rates @ 1280 by 1024 4x AA, as long as the server doesn't have many more players than the recommended bot count for the map. Can you post the D3D section in your UT2003.ini?

Also did you upgrade from another card? If so maybe a good format and reload will do you some good, clear out all the old junk and start with one new set of drivers. The cat 3.7's seem to work fine for me.

**legacy-Yakuza** · 09-25-2003, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by dethmanrulz
...ok.... first... my system:

Pentium 4 2.0 ghz
768 DDR PC3200 RAM
ASUS P4P8X
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
SB Audigy gamer

ok.... this is the prob.... in outdoor areas in most games I get slowdowns... (Jedi Academy... UT2k3.... even UT1) odd thing in UT2k3 though.... in the framerate counter it says I might be getting about 35 or 40 frames.... but it looks much slower.... the image is moving much slower.....

(I have the latest drivers)

I suspect the same is happening for the other games as well....

It seems when large outdoor areas (with lots of details)...this happens...

any help?

Just sounds like your card is bottle necking due to slower cpu speed

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-25-2003, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Yakuza
Just sounds like your card is bottle necking due to slower cpu speed

My CPU is only 1.67Ghz and the only time it bottlenecks is when there are way too many players in a server. He shouldn't be having any problems with outdoor areas. I'm thinking it may be driver or OS related.

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-25-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by X PsychoTron X
My CPU is only 1.67Ghz and the only time it bottlenecks is when there are way too many players in a server. He shouldn't be having any problems with outdoor areas. I'm thinking it may be driver or OS related.

could be..i have a nivid mx420 in there b4 but ive reformmated more then once and got rid of all nvid stuff in registery, windows sys..etc...and on the new drivers (3.8) not sure if that would make much of a diff..all the drivers i have installed up till now most of the time make me slow down even more.:bulb: :@

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-25-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by X PsychoTron X
Strange, I have a 9800 pro on top of an AMD XP 2000+ and I can maintain great frame rates @ 1280 by 1024 4x AA, as long as the server doesn't have many more players than the recommended bot count for the map. Can you post the D3D section in your UT2003.ini?

Also did you upgrade from another card? If so maybe a good format and reload will do you some good, clear out all the old junk and start with one new set of drivers. The cat 3.7's seem to work fine for me.

[D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice]
DetailTextures=False
HighDetailActors=False
SuperHighDetailActors=False
UsePrecaching=True
UseTrilinear=False
AdapterNumber=-1
ReduceMouseLag=True
UseTripleBuffering=False
UseHardwareTL=True
UseHardwareVS=True
UseCubemaps=True
DesiredRefreshRate=60
UseCompressedLightmaps=False
UseStencil=False
Use16bit=False
Use16bitTextures=False
MaxPixelShaderVersion=255
UseVSync=False
LevelOfAnisotropy=1
DetailTexMipBias=0.800000
DefaultTexMipBias=-0.500000
UseNPatches=False
TesselationFactor=1.000000
CheckForOverflow=False
AvoidHitches=False
OverrideDesktopRefreshRate=False
DecompressTextures=False
UseXBoxFSAA=False
TerrainLOD=0
SkyboxHack=False
LowQualityTerrain=False

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-25-2003, 06:18 PM

I would post my D3D section as well.... but it's NOT a UT problem.... it happens in every game..... (well... all new games anyway)

... and yes... I just got a new mobo... so I had to reformat... so that's not the problem....

**legacy-Zyngath** · 09-25-2003, 06:29 PM

Disabling FastWrites really solves a lot of problems with the 9800 Pro.

Your BIOS must have that function if the catalyst control panel shows the option to be turned on.

You really should try that....check your mainboard manual if necessary if you cant find the option in the BIOS.

**legacy-RipTheJacker** · 09-25-2003, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Zyngath
Disabling FastWrites really solves a lot of problems with the 9800 Pro.

Your BIOS must have that function if the catalyst control panel shows the option to be turned on.

You really should try that....check your mainboard manual if necessary if you cant find the option in the BIOS.

the mobos bios? if so mine really sux neway and there aint alot of options i can change

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-25-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Zyngath
Disabling FastWrites really solves a lot of problems with the 9800 Pro.

Your BIOS must have that function if the catalyst control panel shows the option to be turned on.

You really should try that....check your mainboard manual if necessary if you cant find the option in the BIOS.

well... I have Aida32 system information program and it tells me that Fast-write is supported.... I turned it off in the control panel..... don't know where to find it in the BIOS though....

**legacy-CH405** · 09-25-2003, 07:57 PM

/me puts on old man costume.
/me starts waving walking stick/

"I told you young whipper snappers not to get the latest and greatest. Well I suppose thats whatcha get when you want the best. All rubbish I tell ya. Now my 9700PRO, its old but it runs like a beauty, I bet you can't say that for your graphics card now can ya, you lazy gallouts!"

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-25-2003, 07:57 PM

alright.... the ONLY place in the entire manual where fast-write is mentioned is in the list of features where it says that it is supported....:sour:

EDIT: If you're interested....http://www.asus.com.tw/support/downl...8x.pdf~zaqwedc

that's the link for my mobo manual.... available for download....

**legacy-scuzzbuster** · 09-25-2003, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by Reversion
Not only should you try to turn off...
...I found this makes no difference but give it a try.

Try taking a sledge hammer and slowly banging on the side of the case...then take some Drano Cleanser and pump it into the Floppy drive followed by painting you mother board yellow..

I've found this makes no difference but give it a try.

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-25-2003, 09:41 PM

really????? Gee..... maybe I should try that!!!

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-26-2003, 08:18 AM

BUMP....

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-26-2003, 09:16 AM

RipTheJacker --> Seriously though with your setup you should be able to run the game just fine with all the eye candy enabled. There is a slim chance it could be your nasty ass packard bell mobo, but still I doubt that would be the case.

dethmanrulz --> You should be able to run the game just fine as well with that rig. Quite odd, what kind of mother board do you have again?

Any how, I'm running an AMD XP 2000+ with a 9800 pro and everything works fine for me. I'll post my settings if that helps any.

[WinDrv.WindowsClient]
WindowedViewportX=640
WindowedViewportY=480
FullscreenViewportX=1280
FullscreenViewportY=1024
MenuViewportX=640
MenuViewportY=480
Brightness=0.810000
Contrast=0.750000
Gamma=0.950000
UseJoystick=False
CaptureMouse=True
StartupFullscreen=True
ScreenFlashes=False
NoLighting=False
MinDesiredFrameRate=37.000000
Decals=True
Coronas=True
DecoLayers=True
Projectors=True
NoDynamicLights=False
ReportDynamicUploads=False
TextureDetailInterface=UltraHigh
TextureDetailTerrain=UltraHigh
TextureDetailWeaponSkin=UltraHigh
TextureDetailPlayerSkin=UltraHigh
TextureDetailWorld=UltraHigh
TextureDetailRenderMap=UltraHigh
TextureDetailLightmap=UltraHigh
Snip..

[D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice]
DetailTextures=True
HighDetailActors=False
SuperHighDetailActors=False
UsePrecaching=True
UseTrilinear=True
AdapterNumber=-1
ReduceMouseLag=True
UseTripleBuffering=False
UseHardwareTL=True
UseHardwareVS=True
UseCubemaps=True
DesiredRefreshRate=100
UseCompressedLightmaps=False
UseStencil=False
Use16bit=False
Use16bitTextures=False
MaxPixelShaderVersion=255
UseVSync=False
LevelOfAnisotropy=1
DetailTexMipBias=0.800000
DefaultTexMipBias=-0.500000
UseNPatches=False
TesselationFactor=1.000000
CheckForOverflow=False
AvoidHitches=False
OverrideDesktopRefreshRate=False
DecompressTextures=False
UseXBoxFSAA=False
TerrainLOD=0
SkyboxHack=False
LowQualityTerrain=False

Those settings along with 4x AA, the only time I really have any problems is when too many players join a server. Say if the map really only supports 10 and there are 16. I've hit a ceiling, but I know thats because of my slower CPU speed. I would think that with your computers you would be able to do much better.

Also a word of advice for when you format and reload. First thing you should always do, before installing any drivers (Except NIC) is do windows update first. Get the latest service pack, than any security updates then the latest version of direct X. After you do that install your sound drivers and then your video drivers. Another thing you might want to check for is that there aren't too many applications running in the background, in my experience UT2003 and many other games can get a little picky about having other stuff running. Most of this I'm sure you guys are well aware of, I just don't know what else to say. Your systems should be pretty stable along the lines of good frame rates and what not. Just for kicks maybe try enabling the vSync and the triple buffering, that may smooth out your frame rates so they don't move up and down so wildly.

PS. In your BOIS if there is a setting called "Load high performance defaults" or something along those lines try using that. Note that it may cause some system instability, if it does there should be an option to load the BIOS setup defaults.

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-26-2003, 10:20 AM

well... it's not only UT2003 that does this though.....

there aren't many programs running in the background...

my motherboard is an ASUS P4P8X....

and there is no "load high performance defaults" in the BIOS...:sour:

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-26-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by dethmanrulz
well... it's not only UT2003 that does this though.....

there aren't many programs running in the background...

my motherboard is an ASUS P4P8X....

and there is no "load high performance defaults" in the BIOS...:sour:

Man thats a pretty good setup you have man. I don't know why in the world you would be having problems like this.

Edit: Sweet I just hit 2000 posts.

Edit Again: Wait I just thought of something. What do you have your AGP aperture size set at in your bios?

**legacy-dethmanrulz** · 09-26-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by X PsychoTron X
Man thats a pretty good setup you have man. I don't know why in the world you would be having problems like this.

Edit: Sweet I just hit 2000 posts.

CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts are always good quality

:up:

.... yeah... it's odd isn't it.... I mean... I've even done a freah OS install.... and the problem still persists.....

... on another forum I've been asked if it could be and IRQ conflict.... I have NO idea what that is.... do you? And do you think it might be the problem?

**legacy-yewnuhtee** · 09-26-2003, 10:31 AM

IRQ

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-26-2003, 10:31 AM

Ooooo I just remembered something scott dalton posted in my Unreal 2 preformance tips thread. You may want to check this option out.

Originally posted by Scott Dalton

People with high end systems that are seeing low framerates (IE - the reports of 10-15 FPS on a machine that's 1.5+ ghz with a gf3+ level of videocard) very likely have the misfortune of their system running their AGP card in PCI mode.

This has been covered in other threads, but I thought I'd bring it up again here.

This is a repost of a very old post on the subject and FWIW - generally updating your BIOS will fix the problem, but it is somewhat dependant on your motherboard and chipset manufacturer from what I've seen.
__________________________________

Are you sure your system is running with the graphics card in AGP mode?

Sounds like you've had problems with newer graphics intensive games. This smells like your graphics card is actually running in PCI mode. A lot of applications will say that you've got AGP, but they don't report whether your motherboard is really using it. This sometimes happens on systems for no good reason (I had the same thing happen on my home rig and I know a few others who've seen the same thing).

You won't notice it until you really start pushing the card, such as with high polygon scenes where the data starts bottlenecking through the PCI bus.

An easy way to check for this is to download
SphereMark and check look under the window->who's rendering menu. Under renderer it should indicate either PCI or AGP.

Now if you do find you're in PCI, not AGP, you'll have to look into drivers or bios for your particular config to fix the problem. Unfortunately, this varies from setup to setup. It's purely a hardware thing, and we've seen it enough times to be pretty sure there are people out there who have this problem who've never pushed their hardware enough to notice it.

Hope this helps you out.

Scott

FWIW - we saw this same problem on a new machine we got here just last month - so it's not terribly isolated.