EPIC: UT1 Nostalgia

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-19-2003, 05:43 PM

This is what I think made UT1 more sucessful than UT2k3.

The first thing is Player model scaling/animations. UT1 had the models scaled perfect, it made the game feel more solid than ut2k3. It made blowing someones head off with the sniper rifle twice as good. There is also a couple of problems with player animations in UT2k3. They could have put holding the weapon with one hand while strafing (which made good players have good style in UT1), but instead they chose the quake3 crap with holding the weapons with both hands the whole time (feels like u get killed by a n00b everytime u die). Ut2k3 player models are unproportional to the maps and this needs to be fixed.
Here is a comparison of strafing in UT1 and UT2k3. Also notice they dont take baby steps in UT1. They also flex at the knee a little bit when running.

holding with 1 hand, and looks like hes running with bigger steps.
Unreal Tournament

UT2k3
player model too small, baby steps, and holding with 2 hands. Not near as good as UT1 animations.

The next thing is the maps. Almost all of the maps in UT1 had good gameplay and flow. Face3 is too big, and geothermal is too small. But I really hope they are going to have good maps in UT2004.

if you havnt played UT1 in a while try it and see how much more fun it is

**Boksha** · 09-19-2003, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by d3fc0n
if u havnt played UT1 in a while try it and see how much more fun it is.

I did. UT1 sucked. The models were big alright. There was very little room to move, which made the weapons, which were spammy already, a lot spammier.

The few maps that weren't that spammy (the outside areas of CTF-Darji come to mind) made the players look like ants as well.

Finally, if you don't look stylish in UT2k3, you simply aren't stylish. Simple as that. Nothing more stylish than someone actually dodging rockets and doing flips in mid-air. UT2k3 doesn't provide it's players with style, you have to bring your own.

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-19-2003, 05:57 PM

The few maps that weren't that spammy (the outside areas of CTF-Darji come to mind) made the players look like ants as well.

Finally, if you don't look stylish in UT2k3, you simply aren't stylish. Simple as that. Nothing more stylish than someone actually dodging rockets and doing flips in mid-air. UT2k3 doesn't provide it's players with style, you have to bring your own. [/B]

This is simply a comparison of ut2k3 to UT1. Give me one thing in the ut2k3 screenshot thats better than the UT1 screenshot.

**legacy-LeJimster** · 09-19-2003, 05:59 PM

I'm afraid he's right boshka.. The player models are simply too small. It makes it less satisifying when u get a headshot.. because u dont see the head pop off. Also I agree with what he's saying about how the players hold their weapons.. In UT everything was done 1 handed

, majorly cool. Maybe It shouldn't be like that for every weapon, but some of them defenitley should be 1 handed.

**legacy-7eVeN=SwE=** · 09-19-2003, 05:59 PM

100 threads has been posten about the subject why UT1 is better then UT2k3, everyone has his opinion, and UT1 is just differnent, it has a faster gameplay, its simpeler wich is better for the whole gameplay, but believe Epic hasnt been sleeping... they read the most of stuff thats posted on this forum, and they learned allot, if u look at the post UT2k4 video's u can allready see some maps that look quiet significant to the old UT1 maps!

I believe UT2k4 is gonna be also populair for the old ut1 community... and for the people that likes to play with vehciles, aka planetside/battlefield community, believe me ut2k4 is going to make it for sure!

:up: :up:

**legacy-CorDharel** · 09-19-2003, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by d3fc0n
This is simply a comparison of ut2k3 to UT1. Give me one thing in the ut2k3 screenshot thats better than the UT1 screenshot.

I think you didn't realize that UT2k3 is the k3wl3st game ever!

So go sleeping! :bulb:

I don't like whin0rs...

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-19-2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by CorDharel
I think you didn't realize that UT2k3 is the k3wl3st game ever!

So go sleeping! :bulb:

I don't like whin0rs...

The only thing thats worse in ut2k3 is the points I just made.These little things can make a huge difference.

**Magwa** · 09-19-2003, 06:20 PM

i have said the same things for almost 11 months some people realize what you are saying is true others just don,t know or don,t care but i agree with you on all points and you are not alone in your thinking just cruise this forum there are many others who share your ideas and feelings....

**Apathy** · 09-19-2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Boksha
I did. UT1 sucked.

You're so dead wrong.

**legacy-[King_Snorkie]** · 09-19-2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by BasketCase
You're so dead wrong.

Uhh, how can be wrong or right when you're both merely stating opinions?

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-19-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by CorDharel
I think you didn't realize that UT2k3 is the k3wl3st game ever!

So go sleeping! :bulb:

I don't like whin0rs...

I was making a point. whats the point of a ut2k3 forum if i cant make suggestions?

**legacy-CH405** · 09-19-2003, 06:29 PM

Now wheres that picture of a dead horse

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-20-2003, 04:09 PM

bump

**virax** · 09-20-2003, 04:28 PM

Although I do agree that the one handed thing was very, very cool... the models are scaled not only fine, but perfect. It would be a shame to see them become any larger, or any smaller.

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-20-2003, 04:48 PM

the models would look even smaller on the big Onslaught maps.

**virax** · 09-20-2003, 05:58 PM

They're models, not skins. And that's realistic, you know. Things really do get smaller at long distances! It's true!

**legacy-MandyLifeboats** · 09-20-2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Virax
Things really do get smaller at long distances! It's true!

No they don't, they just look smaller

I hadn't noticed that the single handed thing is gone though, it does look really great in UT. I guess UT2K3 just has so many things different from what made UT the success it was/ is, I missed that one :cry:

ML

**InfiniteWeird** · 09-20-2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Magwa
i have said the same things for almost 11 months some people realize what you are saying is true others just don,t know or don,t care but i agree with you on all points and you are not alone in your thinking just cruise this forum there are many others who share your ideas and feelings....

And I would be one of them. :up:

Although I don't mind playing UT2003 so much, but I still maintain that the player scale is messed up. The animations too, not only the way they hold the weapons or the way some of the humans take those little tiny baby steps, but some of the jumping animations seem a odd as well.

Thank god they've confirmed that they are tweaking the overall "feel" in UT2004. Hopefully this means player scale and jump distance.

**legacy-Bob the Builder** · 09-20-2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by LeJimster
I'm afraid he's right boshka.. The player models are simply too small. It makes it less satisifying when u get a headshot.. because u dont see the head pop off. Also I agree with what he's saying about how the players hold their weapons.. In UT everything was done 1 handed , majorly cool. Maybe It shouldn't be like that for every weapon, but some of them defenitley should be 1 handed.

I agree with Boksha. And honestly I dont think the animations are that great either. A little slidey for my liking, but its minor, and to complain about it, as though its a huge issue is nitpicking if you ask me. I dont see my own animation and Im hardly admiring (or not as the case is) the enemies movement. Im usually to busy trying offload flak or rocket into his face.

About the player models, are they too small, or are the maps much bigger. Its called relativity I think. Some dude called Einstein wrote about it.

**nighty** · 09-20-2003, 06:26 PM

I did. UT1 sucked. The models were big alright. There was very little room to move, which made the weapons, which were spammy already, a lot spammier.

lol! Yet another UT2k3 N00b that never played Unreal or UT. Which is fine, but no true hard core UTer who moved on to UT2k3 would EVER say "UT1 sucked."

I personally think it's pathetic that people can't seem to like BOTH games. I like UT, I like UT2003. There were alot of disappointing things about UT2003 IMO, mainly the poor maps, but it didn't stop us from running 4 UT2003 servers. Hell, I'm even one of those freaks who liked Quake3 at the same time I was playing UT! *GASP* UT2003 was fun for awhile, but it didn't attract alot of players, sorry but that is fact. Plenty of people played the game a few times then shelved it, and kept playing UT and Quake3. The game was completely different in almost every respect from UT, and was ALOT more like Quake. I didn't mind since I like the Quake series, but that's the main disappointment for most UT players me thinks. The results of this are easily disseminated from the ultra-low online player count. Say what you will, but if we are to judge a game that is meant to be almost completely played online by it's online player count, UT2003 did not live up to expectations. And that is being nice.

This is an official forum for the UT2003 / UT2004 games. People who purchase these games have every right to make their opinions heard. The fact that negative things are being said a thousand times and the dead horse is continually being beat should tell Epic something about how many people were dissatisfied with the game. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.

**legacy-babystinky** · 09-20-2003, 06:39 PM

Anyone who says UT1 was full of spam prolly never had the skills to deal with the spam!

There are weapons in UT1 that deal with Spam freaks very easily.

I also thought GitzZz proved conclusively that one person can "OWN" another with just the GOO in UT2k3, something that is impossible between skilled players in UT1!

Goodness gracious when UT1 lasts 4 or 5 years obviously something was correct!!!

Ut2k3 is dying right now and it has been just a year.

Doesn't matter in the end. Epic thinks they got it all figured out....

**legacy-LeJimster** · 09-20-2003, 06:41 PM

wrong stinky.. I used to 0wn everyone with the goo in UT, I find it much harder to in UT2003 tbh. I remember getting VERY good at hitting people in low grav maps with the goop aswell

.

**-=¤willhaven¤=-** · 09-20-2003, 07:06 PM

please view THIS thread for evidence that UT was JUST as out of scale as UT2K3 is...

scale innacuracies have always been there...

**legacy-Farting Bob** · 09-20-2003, 07:06 PM

I like both games. Both are not perfect games, but which is?

Ok, so UT2k3 had poor DM-maps when it was shipped, I agree there .... but that's not the case anymore. Onwage maps, BP-maps and a lot of well done custom maps have changed this. It did ship with some nice CTF maps, since I never liked most CTF maps that came with UT1, too many of them were mazes .... and that's not good for CTF.

Weapons in UT2k3 are better balanced now, of course there will always be people whining about them, but just accept their use. Too many people complain about weapons, whenever something is used against them, they can't live with it .... it's like they want others not to hurt them, I dunno, but the guns have their properties, you know how they work, what they can do, wtf do you want?

The details of the maps themselves in UT2k3 is really amazing, I don't get the point where someone asks for a screenshot of UT2k3 that makes it look better .... I guess he's blind or something. Models, they look far better than UT1, great details .... I just play the game too and don't really worry too much about stuff, it's called Unreal, just let it be a little unreal then.

I do wonder if you really think the game sucks so badly and you don't believe in it anymore, no one forces anyone to like a game, but after a year, what are those people still doing here. I at least know one person in this thread who has actually won the price for having his 10000th post saying the game sucks, and he still can't get enough of it. Well buddy, I think we have, no offense, but I don't see the point, where do you get the thrill from?

I guess I'm used to our clan, people who actually like the game, also liked the previous game. I actually like UT2k3 better now, but what's the point, I like both games. They're both the best in its genre. Maybe this genre in general is dying because of all the more realistic games being played, maybe most people had enough of the oldskool stuff, I really have no clue. I can only speak for myself and say I still dig it a lot, I also like the new stuff. I'm also a gamer that just takes a game for what it is, accept it as it is and don't whine about every little thing that annoys me. Sure, I have my complains, but in general, the game has improved since its release.

If you're looking for the UT1 feel, there is a game that has that feel .... some people have a problem with things that change. I wonder how you would have felt about the game if you had never known UT2k3. I never been on this forum when that game was released, was it all the same sh**?

For short, UT2k3 made me love CTF, UT1 didn't.

**legacy-Agent-X(UK)** · 09-20-2003, 07:37 PM

The eye height was also much better, mixed with the player scaling, it was perfect (player wise).

Ut1 had better suited music IMO, and a few more better flow maps, but UT2k3 wins in everything else.

**legacy-Black'n'Blue** · 09-20-2003, 07:50 PM

Actually, i do kinda prefer UT1 to UT2003 for one small thing. Not detail of textures, size of scale, weapons or anything. Just that UT1 was fast, tight and better paced. Fun was a go-go. UT2003 is a bit more technical and slower paced with the weapons as such, and loses a lil bit. I love both games anyway, but just how i feel.

legacy-If you see kay · 09-20-2003, 08:12 PM

giant maps and low grav eliminate spam:up:
small maps and reg grav are made for spam,but its still pretty fun,fast paced,spam yousrself ,laugh at stupid mistakes,have fun.
the toned down (balanced) weapons in 2k3 made it less fun to play.
the movement and scale/animation are my #1 and#2 picks tho
strafing side to side vs another player both instagib feels really really wack and looks really bad imo,it has a delay when you swith directions, ut was more streamlined and had a better flow.
1 handed weapon :up:

**legacy-Coolreject** · 09-20-2003, 08:23 PM

UT2k3 and UT both pwn. They are like 2 completely different games imho. I like ut2k3 better because everything is more balanced, it's pretty deep for a FPS, and has some schweet graphics. UT1 is very fast paced and more destructive, but it's also more spammy and doesnt really have the most depth. ut2k3 is extremely balanced, deeper, and more polished. UT2k3 has a more 1 on 1 feel while UT has a more massive deathmatch gibfest feel to it. I treat them like two, completely different, pwnage games.

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-20-2003, 08:25 PM

I played UT1 hardcore for 2-3 years and it just felt more solid and complete. I like UT2k3 too, but if they could just go through the better things that UT1 had like animations/scaling, map flow, music, translocator, Uwindows, etc.. and put them in to ut2k4, it would bring the feel that UT1 had.

I also really liked bombing run when there was a lot of standard low-ping servers, but then I lost interest when it got overflowed with instagib and lowgrav servers.

**GuntiNDDS** · 09-20-2003, 08:25 PM

i think 2k3 is definitly more stylish than 99 when it comes to movement. take a video from a ut99 match and one from a ut2k3 match.

the new movement possiblilities expand this. also i think that your ut2k3 screenshot was timed very badly.

for the player-sizeing... i got used to it.

but i agree to you when u say that most of the ut maps had a better flow/concept than the 2k3 ones. and the music was way better. but also thoose points are not new and were discussed allready, so.. generally:

some people like special aspects of a game, and some do not. some think the RL is over-powered, some think its under-powered. some think nw > ig, some think ig > nw. some think ttm is :up: , some think ttm is :down: .

its just all oppinions. you cant proove someone wrong on his subjective oppion.

**legacy-Rodger** · 09-20-2003, 09:02 PM

d3fc0n's hit on some of the things that just don't seem "right" to me with 2K3 - Scale, perspective, animations, & movement.

A few days ago I caught some of the game (CTF) played on a cable TV network show while flipping the channels around (don't remember what the show was). I haven't played UT much at all since 2K3 came out, but seeing it on television really pointed out how bad the player movements look to me.

Players don't walk, run, or even touch the ground very much. They jump, flip, dodge, bounce, slide and seem to fly - constantly. It's not the "fast pace" of the new game that is a problem, it is the lack of any flow or reason for these movements and maybe a lack of transition animations. Somersault, jump, cartwheel, cartwheel, double jump... It looks like a whole box of hot jumping beans - except that jumping beans need a surface to propel from. Only when running straight ahead does the character look like it is in sync with the surrounding terrain - feet and legs moving in proportion to the movement speed of the player across the map. In old UT, you really felt like you were in there - maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I'm "there" while playing 2K3.

Getting rid of dodges, double jumps, and various combinations of them is out of the question, so maybe if the animations were just toned down a bit? What if only some x frequency of the dodges cause a flipping animation? How about either increasing the run speed or decreasing the dodge/jump distance so that cartwheeling/flipping across the map isn't the preferred method? Maybe a dodge or jump "landing" animation to smooth out the roughness?

Just IMHO...

**legacy-JohnDoe641** · 09-20-2003, 09:43 PM

AFAIK Epic already said they were tweaking the animations more. So you won't have to worry about that anymore.

But who cares about UT? I don't. I left the game right when the UT2 demo came out. I've moved on and embraced the new game with it's flaws and all. WIth all the patches that added new features the game became an extremely great one. And now with UT2.5 on the way, more models, maps, weapons, tweaks, etc.. what more can we ask for?

**legacy-eZro\\errr** · 09-20-2003, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by 7eVeN=SwE=
100 threads has been posten about the subject why UT1 is better then UT2k3, everyone has his opinion,

see, its this attitude that corrupts the fundamentals of this argument. its not about one being better than the other, its about qualities that BOTH games have and how to merge those.

some of you people do jump to conclusions if someone hints at improvement with 2k3 and it seems they might misinterpret the gist by assuming one over the other.

there are good and bad features that both games have, let us improve upon those.

**legacy-d3fc0n** · 09-21-2003, 12:14 AM

Another thing with the animations in UT2k3 is they always keep their shoulders facing the target at all times, which dosn't look near as cool as in UT1.

**legacy-CaptainZap** · 09-21-2003, 12:26 AM

I recently installed UT1. I had a lot of fun again, but, I found myself back to playing UT2003. To me, UT2003 is better. UT2004 will surpass everything. I have a lot of faith in Epic/DE. They've worked their asses off listening to us in this forum and patching the game thus making it better. I can't wait till UT2004 is released. I WILL be buying it AND will be buying a copy for my cousin. For me, the Unreal series is the ONLY game in town.

:up:

Edit: God bless everyone at Epic/DE!

**Logy** · 09-21-2003, 01:54 AM

I was always annoyed by the one-handed weapons in UT, where the players are holding what looks like a ninety-pound rocket launcher out in front of him like it's a feather duster. :down:

I'm glad they changed that.

legacy-Kabhal · 09-21-2003, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Logy
I was always annoyed by the one-handed weapons in UT, where the players are holding what looks like a ninety-pound rocket launcher out in front of him like it's a feather duster. :down:

Now that's funny.

I'm glad they changed that.

So am I. It gives it more of a realistic sci-fi possible future feeling. :up:

**legacy-Bonehed316** · 09-21-2003, 04:20 AM

the players arent too small, the maps are made BIGGER than the player. the MAPPER designs for the GAME. the players should, in theory, already be in there to have a GAME, and their size should be the basis of all scaling from that point on.

with respect to players, 16 units is about 1 foot. most maps are built at 32units = 1 foot. any cieling lower than 256 (16 feet) you will hit your head on in UT2003 when you double jump. thats bad flow. double jump is just freaking gay to begin with, then when you have to make your maps twice as big to accomodate it, it becomes even more gay. sure, its fun at first, but it makes things retarded in the end. the player can jump up onto somethign 128 units high, which is 8 feet, higher than the player stands. but its too late to fix that, lol. all the maps are alread sized, and resizing them is impossible (practically speaking, it IS possible, but it would be like making a car and painting the entire thing chrome; its bound to give you problems later on). you can also jump a length of 512 units, or 32 feet. thats a standard double jump. the dodge jump is much farther.

the point is, the maps are oversized to accomodate the player movements. they are either big, or cramped. theyre also usually built to a bigger scale to make it more pleasing to the eye in first person. unreal2 is made at the proper scale, and you all remember how slow you feel like you move, even though youre moving at the same speed, or nearly.

EDIT: to further prove the point, to make a standard door, in real life, is about 2.5 to 3 feet, depending on the style you use. at the player scale, this is 48 units, and cielings would be 128 units high. here is a picture to represent my babble.

This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag. Click to view the full version

this pic is at true scale. 8 foot high cielings, 6" thick walls, 7'2" doors which are 3 feet wide, and the room is 16 feet wide, the size of the aveage bedroom. infact, to give you a reference, you could double jump the lenge of both rooms combined, and you can double jump over the height of the room. that is, if you could fit through the door. the player doesnt fit through spaces less than 64 units wide, or about, and this door is only 48.

this pic is at 3x the scale, roughly, which would provide nice flow between rooms. the cielings are 24 feet high, the door is 16 feet high and 16 feet wide and 4 feet thick, and the room is 32feet wide. as reference, you can double jump through the door, and not hit your head, and if you double jumped from one wall, you would land right in front of the door.

quien prefiere usted? which do you prefer?