Collision and Lightwave static meshes...

[legacy-StevenDS]

Hello to all!

I have a question about "collision" and Static Meshes.

I am using Lightwave to creat static meshes and am importing them into UED3.

I still have problems with players falling thru static meshes when they die. I would prefer that players don't fall thru the floors or thru walls and such when they die.

It seems that there are several different ways to keep players from falling thru static meshes.

1. Builder Brushes saved as Collision for a static mesh.
2. Blocking volumes built to the imported static mesh's shape.
3. A COMBO of a collision mesh AND blocking volume.

4. ...and then I looked at the way the oil tanks in 'CTF Maul' were handled. These are setup using TWO static meshes with many properties changed via the static mesh browser AND Actor Properties.
I noticed that part of the bridges in 'CTF Citadel' are also built with using two meshes in place over each other.

Now, CTF-Citadel and CTF-Maul (and other) maps, are pretty good with keeping players from falling thru all the meshes.
I see that meshes in the DE and Epic maps, are built using, say, ONLY a collision mesh here, ONLY blocking volumes there, TWO superimposed meshes there, etc etc...
It also seems that the models using the superimposed meshes technique, are NOT using 'Collision meshes' OR Blocking Volumes.

The question is: For those of you who build models with Lightwave for use in UED3 for Unreal Tournament 2003, how do you guys handle collision for your meshes?

Would it be a good Idea for me to use the technique used for the oil tanks in CTF-Maul and the bridges in CTF-Citadel, by ALWAYS superimposing TWO static meshes, (one for the model that appears in the game and one lower-poly version for 'collision') and altering all the properties via the static mesh broswer and actor properties?

I have had bad luck with the collision techniques # 1, 2, and 3 mentioned above.

I've read information from the UDN site, Leveldesigners.com, etc... and found not much that consistantly works with Lightwave meshes, and nowhere have I seen mention of the collision technique used on the oil tanks and bridges.

Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all,

- Steven
:weird:

[legacy-DraZtiK]

Originally posted by StevenDS
and found not much that consistantly works with Lightwave meshes

Why is it not consistently working?

[legacy-StevenDS]

I'm having players fall thru my static meshes.
Even when I add 'collision meshes' to the them in UED3.
And when I add blocking volumes for my static meshes.

I can't seem to keep players from falling thru meshes when they die.

:weird:
-Steve

[legacy-DraZtiK]

If their falling through with blocking volumes, then that is strange and not sure why...maybe the volume is set a little too high?

And could be the case with your mesh collision.

Any mesh I create in LW and setup for collision works fine.

Try lowering it just below floor,ground or whatever a bit.

And it is closed properly?

[legacy-pospi]

Could someone plase tell me how they get a collision model imported into unrealEd along with their staticMeshes?

Ive been trying to figure it out for weeks but i can't work out the correct way to tag a surface/layer/whatever to get the importer to treat it as a collision hull.

cheers!

[legacy-blip2]

I'm having players fall thru my static meshes.
Even when I add 'collision meshes' to the them in UED3.
And when I add blocking volumes for my static meshes.

lol

u need to set everything to true exept bcollideactors and bblockzeroextenttraces

blip2

[legacy-ClanG Darkstar]

I use lightwave and have the same problem.
The only solution seems to use blocking volumes.
To create the blocking volume I export the object from lw as a dxf.

[legacy-pospi]

damn that sucks!
I wish i could have everything tied together nicely in the staticMesh itself so you can just place it in without worrying about adding blocking stuff to it as well. It just makes it an annoyance for mappers when I've made actors that need blocking volumes added to make them properly efficient.

There *must* be some way to do it, surely! If there's a way to declare staticMesh objects as Movers in lightwave theres gotta be a collision tag wouldnt you think?

[legacy-ClanG Darkstar]

Same problem for movers

[legacy-Apophis3d]

Just dont use lightwave lol use maya or max.....

[legacy-RelakS]

How can I export to .lwo from max? Or somehow can I use .ase for a .u package?

[legacy-Apophis3d]

ase imports right to unreal ed.

[legacy-ImaCarrot]

In the static mesh browser, you could just set SimpleKarmaCollision and SimpleBoxCollision (not positive of the names) to false. This will make the engine treat the object on a per poly basis. Certainly not the best way to do it, but it will work.

Carrot

btw, I had problem with a blocking volume a couple weeks ago, it just would not block the player at all and I didn't change any of the settings. I would have chalked it up as being my fault, but all my other blocking volumes worked fine. Didn't find a way to fix it, didn't matter cause it was only temporary.

[legacy-Apophis3d]

you can export a collison out of max also. Here is my tutorial for how to do that in max.

Collision Tutorial

[legacy-Ryandar]

You can also give it a very basic karma collision in the static mesh browser. Off the top of my head: go to "collision", then select one of the "KDOP" options. The first one is a box, and then they increase in complexity. Mind you, these are still very basic shapes, and will only work on simple meshes, but it's a hell of a lot less resource consuming than simplekarmacollision.

[legacy-RelakS]

Originally posted by Apophis3d
ase imports right to unreal ed.

Yes, but if I want to put a SM to a .u package, and not to a .usx, than the ucc say: it can't import non .lwo object.


Anyway, .ase is the best

[legacy-Apophis3d]

yes ase with collison info will work the best for more complex meses that arnt boxs or cylinders. I hardly even use KDOP myself I am just to picky when it comes to my collisons lol.

[legacy-RelakS]

I can import only the convex mesh to collision. The Unrealed find all of the data, and say, these was imported succesfully, the carma data is ok, but in the modell, there is only the convex shape turn into collision modell.

What would be wrong?

[legacy-Apophis3d]

ohhh you have to make sure you drag around all the collision and the mesh or you may end up only exporting the collision on accedent. I know thats happend to me a few times. Just make sure everything is selected before you use the export function.

[legacy-RelakS]

It isn't worked, but the "Convert Brush to Collision" is better for me

[legacy-myleslampost]

Not to sound stupid but i had the same problem with my may .ase import

But i found making a much less poly count model with the real mesh worked

But im using Lightwave at the mo but i found i could only have 1material at a time??:bulb:

[DGUnreal]

The best method to handle StaticMesh collision is with Type 1 collision hulls integrated right into the mesh.
See the UDN Collision Tutorial.
And the UDN Create in a modeling program.

This is not difficult to do! Simply create a low-poly general shape of the main staticmesh using simple primitives such as cubes and cylinders.

The only guidelines are that the collision hulls must be named correctly (prefixed with "MCDCX_"); they must be convex hulls; they should not intersect each other; they should be non-contacting with each other, but this is not tightly required.

And unfortunately you shouldn't always go by the stock retail staticmeshes for collision examples, as a lot of them are doing wacky things. Some meshes don't have their properties set properly, some have bad/invalid Type1 hulls, some use independant meshes for collision, etc.
You are best to simply create Type1's whenever you need them.

In 3DS Max (I am also a legit owner of this software) I simply create a low poly version of the shape using standard primitives which I convert to Editable Meshes, I set their mesh color to dark red so that I can visually distinguish them in Max.
Once I have the final mesh and simplified collision complete, I collapse the meshes' modifier stacks, I then attach all of the various mesh pieces to have a final single mesh except for the MCDCX entities which must all be separate and individual, then I export all of this to ase format.
Importing it into UnrealEd results in the final textured staticmesh plus one or more MCDCX collision hulls. See the UDN lollypop on the above links for a simple example.
Once it is imported, you normally leave the Properties as defaults, with UseSimpleKarmaCollision and UseSimpleBoxCollision to True and UseSimpleLineCollision as False.
When inserting the staticmesh, you don't have to change any of its Collision Properties as their defaults are just fine, unless you wish to over-ride the main properties to remove such things as all collision (for meshes that you won't contact etc.).

Alternately, you can use the K-DOP functions within the UnrealEd StaticMesh browser, but these most likely are not fully optimized to fit the source staticmesh.
If you assign K-DOPs, be sure to then set the UseSimpleKarma/UseSimpleBoxCollision properties to True. Otherwise the K-DOP won't be utilized.

I still have problems with players falling thru static meshes when they die.

1. Builder Brushes saved as Collision for a static mesh.
2. Blocking volumes built to the imported static mesh's shape.
3. A COMBO of a collision mesh AND blocking volume.
4. ...and then I looked at the way the oil tanks in 'CTF Maul' were handled.

This will be caused by no or invalid Karma collision associated with the staticmesh.

I would strongly recommend creating Type1 Collisions right in the main mesh that you import. This is the best way to do it.

Using other such methods as Blocking Volumes (this is BSP), secondary invisible staticmeshes, etc., are not my favorite, as they must be placed individually along with the original staticmesh for every instance, they may eat up more collision hash, they are usually not as optimized as you may want them to be, plus they can be a real hassle to work with when modifying a staticmesh for such properties as Rotation and DrawScale3D etc., since the separate collision entity must also be modified likewise.

I'm having players fall thru my static meshes.
Even when I add 'collision meshes' to the them in UED3.
And when I add blocking volumes for my static meshes.
I can't seem to keep players from falling thru meshes when they die.

By "adding collision meshes" are you referring to K-DOPs?
If so, be sure to set the UseSimpleKarma/UseSimpleBoxCollision to True.

When adding Blocking Volumes, the default Collision Properties should work fine. The only one that is disabled is the BlockZeroExtentTraces (affects hitscan weapons/projectiles and some vehicle position tests).

Also make sure that you do a Build All if you are inserting Blocking Volumes, just to make sure that the BSP objects are being added to the hash properly.

Could someone plase tell me how they get a collision model imported into unrealEd along with their staticMeshes?

Ive been trying to figure it out for weeks but i can't work out the correct way to tag a surface/layer/whatever to get the importer to treat it as a collision hull.

Exactly as shown in the UDN Collision link that I gave above.
Create additional primitives that resemble the basic shape of your mesh, give them "MCDCX_<whatever>" names, don't attach them to the final collapsed textured mesh, then export it all.
What occurs in UnrealEd is that the main mesh item is imported in as a StaticMesh actor, and any other entities with names prefixed by MCDCX_ are imported in as simplified collision data pieces.

I wish i could have everything tied together nicely in the staticMesh itself...

There *must* be some way to do it, surely!

That is my preferred method. Secondarily I will use K-DOPs if they fit properly. I dislike using Blocking Volumes or secondary invisible meshes for collision (although I have had to resort to this to fix bad/missing simplified collisions on UT retail staticmeshes).

I use Max and not Lightwave, but I would assume that the principal is the same. UnrealEd simply uses the mesh's name to determine if it is a Type1 collision. Prefix the mesh name in the 3D application with "MCDCX_".

In the static mesh browser, you could just set SimpleKarmaCollision and SimpleBoxCollision (not positive of the names) to false. This will make the engine treat the object on a per poly basis. Certainly not the best way to do it, but it will work.

btw, I had problem with a blocking volume a couple weeks ago, it just would not block the player at all and I didn't change any of the settings. I would have chalked it up as being my fault, but all my other blocking volumes worked fine. Didn't find a way to fix it, didn't matter cause it was only temporary.

I realize that you are only helping, so this is not a flame on your post.

I strongly do not recommend doing this unless the source mesh is only a couple hundred triangles or less. If it is a few thousand triangles for example, this greatly increases the Karma/Box collision hashes and will also usually result in vehicles or players sticking on the mesh, especially when they collide with it at higher speeds. This is because the collision testing on such a "high-density" actor takes too long, and the player/vehicle passes part way into it before the collision is detected, causing it to stick inside of the mesh.

If it is a reasonably simple mesh, check whether the K-DOP will work better instead.

Regarding the non-working Blocking Volumes, this may simply be because they are CSG/BSP entities, so they have some of the issues that other CSG Bruches have.

Here is my tutorial for how to do that in max.

This link goes elsewhere, nothing about collision there...

Yes, but if I want to put a SM to a .u package, and not to a .usx, than the ucc say: it can't import non .lwo object.

Anyway, .ase is the best

Will Lightwave not import some of the other formats supported by Max?
You may be able to simply export from Max as another common format, import that into Lightwave, then save as .lwo.

[legacy-pcmods]

Well what do we do if we don't have 3Dmax, we're not all rich? Because i would like to know how to do what DG says with other packages, DG should know since he claims to be a 3Dmax expert.

[legacy-SeverinHeads]

Lightwave will import and export to .obj , 3ds, dxf amongst others.