Sharpfish Park - Released! (Screenshots)

[Sharpfish]

<edit>
Quick update - no fussing or complaints please A Deathmatch version of this map is now available for DM folks... (I had a spare evening)




download link.
http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=3438

A few edits to make it a bit more suitable for DM.
Download it, dont download it, play it, delete it, rip it I`m easy

</edit>


< NOW RELEASED >

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=2199

Enjoy!

--------

Ok guys, I`m not going to `overhype` this one as I know I`m sticking my neck out again by doing something completely strange for UT2k3. Sharpfish Park (hopefully also a DOM version set in the evening where all the lights will be set to `unlit` and have light sources instead of the sunlight). Its a medium/large ctf map suits 6-12 players (or more) has some new ideas, cable cars can be ridden, boats bob and weave on the small pond etc.

Spent quite a while optimising this, zones/aps, trying not to make the outdoors too `barren` and open, keep it interesting if I could. It does perform very well imo considering I have loop movers and high details, carefull use of antiportals and optimising all my custom meshes to look ok, while reducing polys has helped out. Also all my custom textures are compressed which keeps filesize down quite handily. Lastly the terrain (3 terrains) are 63x63 so do not hit performance that much.

It`s slowly dawning on me that my style of mapping/creation suits the engine perfectly but may not suit the game itself. I can`t bring myself to create the same style of maps that we all did in Unreal and UT1. I wanted to move on, try different things. Those other styles play very well indeed and are keepers for sure, far more than my maps are, It`s not that I can`t compete, I just don`t want to compete, I want to `play` those other maps but I want to create something exciting to me. Bear this in mind as you judge it, remember it will not be for everyone, though it is fun and different so some folks will apreciate it.

Note these pics are mainly of the MIDDLE section only, it has 6 exits/entrys from this middle area to two other areas where teh flags are.. planned to do loads more on it but I need to get on with other things (learning C++ etc)

There is still work to do (esp on the flag areas), and some tweaking of textures and terrain on these shots... nothing is final yet!

CTF-Sharpfish Park










Rgds

Sharpfish

[Sharpfish]

Some more:









Thanks
Sharpfish

[legacy-Devastation 8]

/me faints mumbeling the word: purdy...

[legacy-PurplWulf]

the map looks sweet SharpFish, will you doing a public beta?

I'll be happy to give it a try and see how it plays

[legacy-Dirtybob]

yeah the map looks very nice, when can we beta it?

[Sharpfish]

Shouldn`t need a widespread beta as I will have tested pretty much all there is to test, Jay/LC5/6 will probably run his grubby mitts over it just to make sure but ive been around it with a fine tooth comb (well a fine toothed x-loc) found all the little sharp edges that you can x-loc into and get below terrain etc, its all pretty solid as it was an excercise in optimising and testing as much as in creative mapping.
ANything else would be gameplay/gameflow related and I`ve learned to take that advice with a pinch of salt cos you only ever please a small section of people, I`ve changed stuff in the past to a general consensous, only to have it highlighted as a flaw in reviews (and particularly user comments).

Map itself should be finished dead on 2 W**KS. ;P


Rgds
Sharpfish

[legacy-Teddie]

Shweet!

Hey, dreamstation's been wanting something like this I think (from chat conversations I had with him)... wonder if he'll catch this thread.

Looks great, sharpfish.

[Sharpfish]

Thanks Teddie,

I was originally going to put all sorts of `theme park` elements into it, but there just didn`t justify themselves from a gameplay perspective (ie they had none - they just looked pretty) I lost the ghost train and the big wheel, but atm I have some (dive bomber and others) outside the playing area that are whirling and twisting etc - but not that you can get to, just for atmosphere.

Besides this is sharpfish park, not disney world - we don`t have the same kind of budgets

Rgds
Sharpfish

[legacy-Teddie]

Originally posted by sharpfish


Besides this is sharpfish park, not disney world - we don`t have the same kind of budgets

LOL, well it still looks great with whatever budget your tied down to

Were you serious about the 2 weeks on a possible final?

[Sharpfish]

well if all goes to plan then about 2 weeks yes, though I was only saying that as the standard `joke` that we all know.

Basically `when it`s done`..

damn another cliche

Sharpfish

[Wulf Sternhammer]

Absolutley amazing...Really looking forward to playing this one too and still playing all your others regularly.

Although...you do realise that the standard of mapping now means that I have had to stop doing any more to my map DM-Area53 because it just doesnt compare to any of the maps that are around these days That and the fact that it was taking me forever!

Wulf Sternhammer

[Wulf Sternhammer]

Hey - I just noticed - I'm a Member!!! I've always wanted to be a member, coz lots of people think I am one, but before I wasnt really

Wulf Sternhammer

Member!!

[legacy-EyeDacor]

Originally posted by WulfSternhammer
Hey - I just noticed - I'm a Member!!! I've always wanted to be a member, coz lots of people think I am one, but before I wasnt really

Wulf Sternhammer

Member!!

Hhmm...? :bulb:

Please, no more drugs while posting here!

[legacy-Loosecontroll6]

Looks Great Paul!.
I just feel like running in and takin a ride on the cable cars and boats!.
Those water reeds looks fanatastic aswell.....The whole map does infact.

Also love the water and skies in this. Is this the daytime or evening version though as the sky looks a bit in between.

[Sharpfish]

WulfSternhammer > Thanks. I`d still do your map btw, dont be put off by those cool maps that have come out recently, they are good but there is always room for new ideas.


lc5/6> nah its the daytime one, the shots are darker (as usual) than the actual map in UT2k3. It`s not overly sunny though - just an average clear day.

the evening version will be dusky with all the lights on.

Glad you noticed/liked the water reeds, although they are only a few polys I was quite proud Id made them look quite natural (relatively speaking of course lol).

Cheers
Sharpfish

[legacy-§uper-]V[oose]

I saw this in your sig and was wondering when you would get around to pimping it. Very nice style. Looks like it'll be alot of fun to play. :up:

[legacy-Blaaguuu]

LOOKS really cool... but it seems to me (from the screens) taht i wont liek how it plays... btu ill just have to wait and see...

[legacy-dreamstation]

Very nice indeed Sharpfish! I saw the screenys on your site yesterday! :up:

As Teddie already mentioned, I had a few ideas for a carnival sort of map, with rides, etc but i wouldnt be able to implement the ideas as well as you do!

Be sure to get into contact with us at UT2003HQ when you release it if i dont see a thread beforehand! Well done! :up:

[legacy-P1nky]

Cool man, bingo bango

[legacy-Railgunner]

OWNAGE

[legacy-KaiRaene]

Great man. Lookin forward to it.

[Plumb_Drumb]

Man that stone texture on the ground looks really hi res (good thing, imo)

Nice.

The last shot in your second post (the little building with the red flag) shows an area that seems to lack the quality and detail of the other areas.
Maybe you could give your lighting a more dramatic feel too, so it looks more akin to sun light; it seems a little flat and washed in some spots.

But still... :up:

[Sharpfish]

Wow! Thanks guys, I thought I`d only got one reply here to read!

OK few replies, those worried about gameplay:

It has a all the main things you could get caught up on completely blocking volumed (is that a word) it has a fair bit of connectivity and some decent z-axis, it`s no overly large but gives the impression it is when you are playing (if you can understand?) this is due to having no massive open areas of terrain, I`ve tried to edge everything off so it feels more like an Indoor level would but outdoors kinda thing.. obviously it will never hook up and be as `sharp` as an indoor level.. but there you go. Hoepfully it will be ok there.

Other stuff:

Ive readjusted the sky so it is lighter (more daylight) to make the distinction, as LC said - looking at it it could use a bit of lightening so I did.

Plumb Drumb > You are correct, the last shot is part of the `other` areas - also shown from a birds eye view. This area is still being detailed and that was a very early shot of that particular part - the gatehouse - I`m trying to mix the stone/original buildings with the more modern park `additions`.
The stone floor texture is well detailed but not as high res as I`d like really, I`ve since mixed just a little `noise` texture into that and the grass to break it up a little, thing is if it looks `tiled` from far away it`s usualy ok up close, but when it looks *great* from afar its usualy overscaled up close (look at tropica 1).

Anyway thanks for the good comments, makes me want to work a little harder on it.

Rgds
Sharpfish

[Plumb_Drumb]

In that same screenie i was referring to (last shot, second post), you hve the stone texture on a slope. I am sure that exists in real towns (as I have seen it), but as a texture it looks funny. Maybe have some custom steps there instead.

Also, make sure the stone textur edoesn't look to much like a photo compared to the rest of the level.
Textures ripped straight from photos look terrible ingame. THey need to be adjusted in PS to have a more ocnsistent look with the rest of hte world. jah know?

(I'm sure you have all this covered tho)

[Sharpfish]

"In that same screenie i was referring to (last shot, second post), you hve the stone texture on a slope. I am sure that exists in real towns (as I have seen it), but as a texture it looks funny. Maybe have some custom steps there instead. "

As I said that was early shot, I know what you mean and would never release it like that (stretched textures on a steep slope) I have added rocks and will eventually be moddeling a walkway for there.

"Also, make sure the stone textur edoesn't look to much like a photo compared to the rest of the level.
Textures ripped straight from photos look terrible ingame. THey need to be adjusted in PS to have a more ocnsistent look with the rest of hte world. jah know?"

Yup I know what you mean, to be honest it doesn`t stand out in game, especially once the mip maps/lod kick in Basically its too small to see in the shots but its not as crispy as it looks, its got some dither to it. I`ll make a note though to re-check the texture (which may end up as a placeholder - I have changed it 3 times already lol) it all before release.

Thanks
Sharpfish

[Plumb_Drumb]

Are you going to add detail texture attributes to the textures?
I always like being able to turn on detail textures in user maps (especially when they use custom, low quality, textures)

[legacy-Kaadu]

And it's another OWNAGE from Sharpfish!!!!!!!

[Sharpfish]

Plumb_Drumb> Doubt it, wouldn`t this mean bumping up filesizes to incorporate higher res textures? or does it just turn the lod scale off? - I remember someone saying EPIC didn`t even use that feature so..

Kaadu> Can you change your name to Cliffy? the current one doesn`t see things the way you do unfortunately


Sharpfish

[legacy-jarnotjuh]

omg this looks awesome!

[Plumb_Drumb]

Originally posted by sharpfish
Plumb_Drumb> Doubt it, wouldn`t this mean bumping up filesizes to incorporate higher res textures? or does it just turn the lod scale off? - I remember someone saying EPIC didn`t even use that feature so..

Kaadu> Can you change your name to Cliffy? the current one doesn`t see things the way you do unfortunately


Sharpfish

no no no

You know that detail setting in the menus called "Detail Textures"? THis has nothing to do with the "Texture Quality" settings. Detail textures are an "on" or "off" thing.

You know those little details that kick in when you get up close to a texture, like the grain in wood, for example? THat's another layer of texture detail, called detail textures. You must associate some somehow with your textures, and make sure the style is fitting. (some are for wood, some are for stone, some are for polished steel, etc. etc.)

They have been used in every Unreal game in history. All retail maps have them, and many user maps do too. I would suggest using them, especially if you are planning on being sparing with your texture detail.

Do you understand what I am talking about? (i hope)

[legacy-Kev_Boy]

Nah.

[legacy-Loosecontroll6]

Any clues as to what the flag bases look like or rest of the map apart from middle!.....Or is that a suprise.

[legacy-SkaarjMaster]

Looks great sharpfish! I bet this plays better than some people might think. Looks like you have minimal clutter and we may get caught on a few things, but it looks like the flow should be fine. The stone textures are fine on a slope I think; please don't make steps. Also, don't tell us what video games are in that room; let it be a surprise, hehe.

[Sharpfish]

PD> Yeah I understand, mostly contained in UCgeneric, what I want to know is can I use this `ok` on my textures or will I need to make some of my own (as most of the user maps I checked that DID have them used their own), which is kind of my point.. They are small texture sizes but need scaling in context with your own textures or create your own which could add time on that I haven`t got. OBv if they all have them I`d best get some in!!

K-B> You must be part of that group that I said `this wasnt for everyone` for. No worries.

LC> The flags are on some sory of flattish hex/round shaped stone `steps` atm.

cheers
Sharpfish

[Sharpfish]

"Looks great sharpfish! I bet this plays better than some people might think. Looks like you have minimal clutter and we may get caught on a few things, but it looks like the flow should be fine."

Thanks SM, yes I think it plays better than people may think, because I have blocking volumes on a lot of stuff, for instance those arcade cabs you can NOT get in between them (in a close up fight that would be annoying being caught there), the tables outside the `snack shack` (hope there isnt one really called that ill be sued ) have a cube collision on them not detailed so that you can step round one if you hit it, Ive also shaped the BV on the cabs with an angle so as you hit it it actually makes your charachter move out to the clearing rather than being stuck against them. Also the `guard fences` on the top platforms look ok, but do NOT stop you if you want to get off there - you will just step over them as they are quite low, no need to time a jump etc. the sheild in the middle of the pond can be jumped to from boat to middle to other boat (or x-loc) takes a VERY little bit of skill to do without falling into the water (which will slow you down of course), but as the boats are swaying you do feel sea sick if you stand on them too long. The sides of the pond with the trees and fences look like you could x-loc/jump over and into those trees and have a hell of a time getting out - no they are blocked.. I basically tried to get it to resemble an indoor `flow` level a little (in terms of collision and actuall walkable geometry) while sprucing it up to look a bit more full or real.

"The stone textures are fine on a slope I think; please don't make steps. Also, don't tell us what video games are in that room; let it be a surprise, hehe."

Ive since (as that WAS an early shot) lowered the angle of the terrain its a more mild slope now, Ive moved the `gatehouse` etc down of course too. This makes the stones on that part look the same scale as the rest, but I have some details to add and I had planned on a stone walkway/path (not steps) I`ll see how it turns out.

As for the games in the arcade? well I`ll just say something (so you are not dissapointed) they are NOT animated (though I could have the lo res textures to add a bit of movement) - one of them is a material sequence on `attract` mode, and is a game we all know pretty well ;P - the others are not particularly from recent times.. *ahem*

btw if anyone knows a source of good arcadey samples, bleeps, etc give me a link, or Ill have to make my own which is even more time!

Thanks
Sharpfihs

[Sharpfish]

I thought id post this here (cut n paste from UP forums) as some good points/questions were asked about the map. I`ll just post my reply which gives extra info incase anyone was wondering the same kinda thing. Also even if it looks like a big thread bump in disguise can you just shoot to the bottom and look at the edit about colour/weapons and give some feedback.

Thanks

//***************************************//

Anyway, some info to address some points made:

Lruce Bee > YOu are pretty close, but rather than cartoony imo its just supposed to be real but colourful , and the whole reason we have the colour (ie red and blue) is merely to signify team sides. Also I have dirtied it up a touch since these pics.. it doesn`t look quite so glossy when playing it I guess.

MP> It should play fine, I usually have a good think about weapon placement, and there are plenty of blocking volumes etc to prevent the detail getting in the way on this one. Fingers crossed.

LS> No it`s from a texture site but slightly edited to make it more tileable - tbh im open to a better (but similar look) preferably 1024x cos this is only 512x and looks good on the ground but starts to look a little tiled from afar. If anyone has a good source of a similar looking one then a link would be apreciated.

Blitz> Ive toned the sun down a bit, and also lightened the sky to seem more daylight (the dom version set at dusk would have looked close other wise) - the sun is smaller now but you WILL still burn your retinas if not careful. As for bots - I havent begun to bot path it yet, but will try my hardest this time to get them to play ball, which I assume means digging into aiscripts. I will use defense points etc also.

IHTG> It supposed to resemble a `man made` piece of nature (if that isnt a contradiction) I have been to a park in my old home town (a stately home actually) that has very `formal` areas, the squared pond/lake here gives it the `posh` feel I was after - same as the front gatehouse/flag base areas will (kinda contrasting an old statelyhome gardens with a mini amusement park/country park) Same goes for the `narrow` rocks.. they are there for a purpose, that purpose is gameplay, the same way we dont look at those great indoor levels like Nirvana][, victoria and Alphu][ (2 of the authors here!) and say `hmm why is this room so thin, or why is this big ass ramp here in a building?) - basically its to address the MISTAKES ive made in my past CTF maps that were far too open (boring) terrain, which basically made it similar to all other terrain maps, by that I mean being able to shoot from one end of the map to the other, hardly any cover but the same old `terrain hills` etc etc. I wanted to TRY to combine the indoor `flow` style with an outdoor/interesting theme so that it was fun to play (never knowing what`s around the corner) plus a nice atmosphere to play in. Besides, its really NOT as tight as the pics look, When I first built that area i found (as usual) the scaling was off between 3rd and 1st person, so I scaled it all down to 0.7. I had found by testing that 0.6 was `perfect` for 3rd person view, bots etc.. but then it got a little tight when playing (sideways movements on the gravel path and head heights etc) basically realising its impossible to do a really realistic enviroment and be able to play it the way the new game wants you to play (covering large areas in short time, and jumping far higher than we can in the worlds around us) so I settled at the half way point. the upshot of this is that to your eye the shots may seem smaller - but a bot/you when playing will seem slightly smaller - but in proportion to, say, the boats for instance...

The sky is now a lot lighter, white in places - moving clouds (sphere) etc it doesn`t match the water too much.. also note that cubemap for the pond will be done again when its all finished (that was a place holder) cubemaps last=sensible and accurate.

The texture on the gatehouse (btw that whole area looks a lot more detailed now - that was very early) is the same as the stone - as if they bought a job lot to build the park with - I will try something else but it was supposed to be `ornamental` rather than a functional place (you can not get up the tunnel btw - there is a chain and sign, and you can see the car park in the distance with my car on - and the alarm is going off on it with flashing lights) - trivial / mostly missed details but I like creating them

Desperado#2> Thanks, thats all part of that `posh` feel I was going for, id had enough of natural outdoors - I wanted plenty of trim edging and man made stuff to stop it from becomming one in a long line of `pieces of terrain`. In this map the terrain is there merely to serve the purpose of it being outdoors, the map was not dictated by the terrain this time, the terrain was dictated by the map/theme. The small buildings (and on the other sides) the ramps, walkways and stones all combine to give a more hemmed in feel (similar to the indoors style) but with plenty of breathing space and light.

I don`t know if you guys can tell from my first post but this section in all the shots but the last is just the smaller middle section/zone there are another two zones off this

AS for over play its not overly large, but not small - about halfway between tropica and festive ridge size (more towards ridge size) but Im using 3 zones with proper forced redraw for certain things (to keep them to their zones), a touch of distance fog for looks only not thick fog, careful use of antiportals to help and not hinder, small `choke points` to the other areas (rock archways/tunnels) that also server to keep the zone portals small and occlusion up, etc so it plays quite well fps wise. Basically a 1 high/2 low routes but easy to switch between them.
So really a pretty much average+ gameplay but with a nice theme.

I`ll update those shots at the top in the next day or two.

essay over

<EDIT> Do you guys think I should town down the blue/red a bit? basically make it less toyish? I can remove some hue so it hints at the colour but looks less cartoony?

<Weapon placement Edit:> So far in the middle section I have RL and Shock up top on facing platforms (near cable cars) and FLAcK in one of the lower rooms (the snack `flack` shack) - Obv Ive got to leave something for the base areas and Ive so far left Mini, Link and bio in a triangle around the area (its wider than the area you see above) with the LG up high on my walkways just before you come through into the top of the middle section (towards cable cars) now then - Obv I need another weapon in the other middle building, if I had to use two of the same weapons here?? and would you keep rl up top or lower it? I think Shock is best up high and Flak down low in the tight building.. ALso I will have to replicate the `defense` triangle of weapons+LG on the other base so there will be two of those each in the map.. any ideas on this - sometimes I wish there was another `good` weapon to balance off the shock, flak, rl - or is the link considered a good attack weapon now? alternatively I could copy the shock and rl on both sides of the middle section and move the flack out to the base areas (again that would make two of these weaps)

Thanks

<fin>


Thanks all for feedback/comments

Sharpfish


__________________

[Plumb_Drumb]

desaturating/darkening the reds an blues sounds like a good idea

[legacy--}FB{-Maestr0]

two simple words:
more pics

[Plumb_Drumb]

Hey, Sharpfish you got rid of that one screenie. Were you ashamed of it?

[Sharpfish]

"Hey, Sharpfish you got rid of that one screenie. Were you ashamed of it? "

no, it was because it was innacurate compared to how it looks now, and was taking the feedback off into areas that were not needed because I have addressed them, so by leaving it I may have got another 10 posts saying its not detailed enough, or the texture is stretched etc.. It was an early (WIP) shot the other `middle` shots, though subject to tweaking had already been worked on for 2+weeks before I started this thread and it`s those parts I needed more opinion on as they are pretty much final - basically I shouldn`t have posted that early one with the others without a birdseye view or somethign to give the overal `feel` of the level.

As for pic updates - I`ll update them soon.

.I have added detail textures as PD suggested (on all woods / custom surfaces that would have them) but for some reason they wont show up on my gravel but do on my wood walkways.. mmm

.I have adjusted the sunlight actor / ambient light for more contrast though it is a pain to get right and I`ll prob be tweaking it right up until release.

.I have toned down all the red/blues - they are still coloured but look a little less `new`.

.I have made the pond less blue, more grey/blue now (more natural)

.I have lightened the sky as mentioned, all these points based on the good feedback here, thanks.

Sharpfish