Preview of Ulukai's Upcoming Gothic Map!.

**legacy-Loosecontroll6** · 01-27-2003, 01:35 PM

Ulukai is at it again.

This looks like it's gonna kick ass!.
Just check these shots out.

www.planetunreal.com/ulukai

Here is what he has 2 say:

"Now that I've learnt what works well and what works not so well with this engine from the admittedly mediocre Sahagin, I've been working on a map with a gothic/Thief III inspired feel to it. It's modelled almost entirely in 3ds max, everything is from scratch, including furniture, general household tat and most time consuming of all, the gothic architecture you can see below.

Given the way static meshes misbehave, it's proving a hard task to make the map as photorealistic as I would like, but results so far are looking promising."

**legacy-Doctor7** · 01-27-2003, 01:39 PM

:up: No wonder he was asking about recommended polycounts on the NaliCity forums.

For a map that's mostly meshes, I'm impressed with the lighting.

**legacy-0Xcel** · 01-27-2003, 01:41 PM

Looks damn great, cannot wait.

**Grim** · 01-27-2003, 01:54 PM

Looking forward to having a closer look on this map.

:up:

**legacy-BaleFire** · 01-27-2003, 02:19 PM

Wow!! :up:

[DC] BaleFire

legacy-Jigen · 01-27-2003, 02:45 PM

now that looks incredible.

**legacy-riZZen** · 01-27-2003, 03:04 PM

WOW ... that looks amazing.

**legacy-Teddie** · 01-27-2003, 03:06 PM

That is freakin' beautiful.

- stunned -

**legacy-§uper-]V[oose** · 01-27-2003, 03:53 PM

Look's awesome. Can't wait to run around in that.

**legacy-Zimeon** · 01-27-2003, 04:13 PM

WOW

**legacy-Buckyfg** · 01-27-2003, 04:15 PM

Well, it seems I have a ways to go

, damn nice!!

**legacy-Doctor7** · 01-27-2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Buckyfg
Well, it seems I have a ways to go , damn nice!!

I know the feeling, after seeing this and DM-Nirvana I'm so tempted to redo my meshes to give my map a more curvy, gothic feel, but I'll never finish the damn thing if I do that

**legacy-[landome]ReaveR** · 01-27-2003, 04:19 PM

He should have no problems getting a job as a level designer...

Unless he's one already

**legacy-Babel-17** · 01-27-2003, 05:04 PM

Thanks for the heads up, looks to be great!

Hehehe, if there is ever an Undying sequel Ulukai looks to have the eye needed to make some great levels for it.

**legacy-subversa@ut2k3** · 01-27-2003, 05:07 PM

Stendhal Syndrome.... This map is poetry

**Emmet Otter** · 01-27-2003, 06:30 PM

HOLY SH*T!!!

Thats is the best looking map i've EVER seen. That is amazing.:up: Dude, i love it already and i havent even played it.:up:

**legacy-Radeon285** · 01-27-2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Reversion
HOLY SH*T!!! Thats is the best looking map i've EVER seen. That is amazing.:up: Dude, i love it already and i havent even played it.:up:

I wouldent go as far as to say that but it's looking great so far, its definitely on my download list. If you wanna see somthing that made me go HOLY SH*T fallowed by a trail of other cuss words (which rarely ever happens to me) then watch the first 2 mins of the Giga Unreal2 preview, part1. I couldent beleive me eyes when I saw that.

**legacy-DuSt0fF** · 01-27-2003, 07:17 PM

My addition to this thread would be nothing more than quoting some of your awe inspired comments

:up:

what can i say, *w00t* :X

**legacy-toolboi** · 01-27-2003, 07:36 PM

ya... just...

I think that this may make it as the most amazing looking map I have ever seen.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog · 01-27-2003, 11:12 PM

I saw that and said yay! more maps like this will make UT2k3 and awesome place to be

**legacy-Lio Convoy** · 01-27-2003, 11:47 PM

Whoa.

Damn, and I mean damn! If this plays half as good as it looks.... I'm keeping tabs on this beauty.

Lio Convoy

**legacy-SealClubber** · 01-28-2003, 12:29 AM

the first words that came out of my mouth when I clicked on this thread...

"holy ****!"

those 2 words explain it all! :up:

**Grim** · 01-28-2003, 01:47 AM

/me thinks what high detail settings you are gonna need to see thgis map in all its glory

Well think about it

legacy-yournan · 01-28-2003, 05:25 AM

Damn good. Wheres the download link?

MsM

The Master of Disaster

I am the Game and I am that Damn Good!

**legacy-Wolv34ine** · 01-28-2003, 06:31 AM

I see something like this and want to give up trying and just play instead.
Needless to say it is very nice. Just goes to show that can be done with a very good knowledge of things like 3DSMAX and Photoshop etc.

Casting aside my deep seated envy. This does look special. It is an interesting departure as far as theme goes from anything I have seen before.

Dont get blood on my floors!!!!!

**legacy-PurplWulf** · 01-28-2003, 08:49 AM

man that's beautiful, we're all gonna look like cartoon characters running thru a real world

**legacy-A2597** · 01-28-2003, 09:11 AM

mm....reminds me of Wheel of Time...

Wonder if he's played it?

**legacy-digital orgasm** · 01-28-2003, 09:26 AM

That looks supern...looking forward to this release

:up:

**legacy-«Scavenger-X»** · 01-29-2003, 11:43 AM

where do people find the time to make this stuff?????

id need about a week of free time just to make one room of stuff like that, let alone a whole map that actually works well....

**legacy-Zyz** · 01-29-2003, 12:48 PM

Wow, very beautiful map! Amazing custom static meshes, can't wait!

**legacy-kEKS** · 01-29-2003, 01:17 PM

w00t!!!
what a map, i was absolutely stunned by those shots!!!:up: :up:
release it already!! ... pretty please??

**Marius** · 01-29-2003, 03:56 PM

O W N A G E ! !

**Sharpfish** · 01-29-2003, 08:09 PM

Looks Stunning!

If it plays as well then we are in for a real treat. I know what he means about meshes. The lighting problems etc are a pain, bsp looks so gorgeous with shadows cast onto it (naturally), meshes require more work for us to get close to BSP. I`m of course a BIG fan of custom meshes however and pat epic on the back for making the new engine utilise them so much. Just wish they could have made it a bit less `clunky`.

Very impressive looking, kinda reminds me of the old Twilight on unreal 1 (?) but with amazing detail (and yet clean looking).

Good work!

Sharpfish

**legacy-.altan** · 01-30-2003, 12:31 PM

I like how Ulukai's map is looking (save some of the things on the side but the ceilings look good) but again its not really Gothic unless it embraces the style with open arms, Gothic is NOT just rib vaults and flying butresses... The lighting and the atmosphere isn't really fitting gothic atm, its more industrotech style even.

Another thing people don't understand. GOTHIC IS NOT ABOUT A BUNCH OF GODDAMN SKULLS! ITS NOT ABOUT DEATH, CORPSES, LAVA PITS AND ALL THAT! The stuff about the lava pits/death stuff isn't really directed towards this map, just to the maps like DM-Inferno and DM-Curse3 which so many people think Gothic maps are...
Look carefully on the capital of the pillars supporting the rib vault, and you will indeed see a skull texture.

Gothic is about a tribute to the divine symbolized by the vertical lines that are so charectaristic of them, the idea is ascension to heaven. And LIGHT! Much of the principle architectural elements of Gothic are based on the whole idea of light and space, with flying butresses and rib vaults to allow so-called "divine light" inside the building. Much of the walls of Gothic cathedrals are almost 100% replaced by stained glass leaving all the work to the flying butresses.

I don't like the way the pillars are turning out, not just because of the skulls but they are too flat and cubish. Notre Dame d'Amiens is in my opinion one of the best examples of a Gothic pillar, and this poorly done cube with larger cube bands around the top does not satisfy me :down: The ribs don't flow down the pillar like they should, and they don't look very 3D to me as well. Ideally the rib would flow down on to the capital of the pillar where it would join a larger, central pillar. The base of the pillar is also rather unsatisfactory, not only for the fact that it is just flat but also since the arch trim next to it is just cut off and not connected to it at all.

Although the rib vaults are nicely modelled, I don't see any ribs! Examine almost any photograph of a rib vault and you will see VERY clearly that the ribs are rather 3-dimensional and not flat along the surface of the vault at all. I'm not too fond of the texture of the vault either, it looks like it belongs in a spaceship. And the light at the center of the vault where the ribs join is a big no-no.
To quote from "Gothic Architecture", Volume I, Ch. 3 P. 36, by Sir Thomas Graham Jackson of Cambridge University about the Gothic rib vault:

Henceforth vaulting was not as heretofore a system of intersecting surfaces, but a system of ribs and panels; of arches and filling-in; the ribs forming a framework or skeleton, and the panel being a covering or ceiling fitted in between them, possessing, however, owing to its arched form an independent strength of its own.

If Ulukai followed these words while making the vault, it could have been a lot more successful in Gothic Architecture.

I hope he plans on fixing the strange shape of those windows and adding more detail, as well as making them thicker... And add stained glass in between.

I don't find the stone-brick wall texture very fitting.

The green floor texture taken from Quake is not only ugly, but it is also misaligned on the stairs. Speaking of the stairs, they are rather ugly too and would benefit from a good helping of 3ds max instead of lazily using the stair brush in UEd.

And what the hell is up with the paintings? First off, Gothic churches/cathedrals aren't really the place to find oil paintings in frames as artwork, you have stained glass and walls and portals engraved with figures and scenes from the Bible for that. So not only do the paintings not fit the theme as objects, the themes of the paintings definately do not fit the Gothic theme since Gothic buildings are devoted to icons of Christianity... I'd suggest an engraving or where the Mona Lisa is placed, a small stained glass window... Or a jamb statue.

I hated that stair railing mesh in CTF-Sahagin and I continue to hate it now. I should start a club, with my own anthem and everything.

This is not Gothic.

Otherwise, good luck on the map Ulukai! :up:

I'm such an arsehole

**Sharpfish** · 01-30-2003, 12:43 PM

Well .altan it does say he was inspired by gothic and went for that `feel`, not that he was doing an exact replica down to the rivets. I think it looks very good and all the pedantic trivialities would, although be amazingly accurate and detailed, be overlooked by 90% of gamers. And this is who he is making this map for, the gamer, not the architect.

I agree with some of your points but a good looking map is still a good looking map, doesn`t in anyway need to be `exact` to be fun and visually impressive.

I too have an eye for detail, but up to a point. In a game there is no point getting too bogged down with specifics as I can guarantee 50% of people will just say its `over detailed` or `looks ok but play sux`.

Of course if he was getting paid to produced a visually accurate enviroment then all your points would be very helpful and they show good knowledge of the subject for sure!

"This is not Gothic.
Otherwise, good luck on the map Ulukai!
I'm such an arsehole "

Nah you are not an arsehole, just taking things a bit too seriously in this case!

Sharpfish

legacy-strawa · 01-30-2003, 02:25 PM

guys guys guys... after all this is Unreal! Everything that is eyecandy and playable at the same time is good, Unreal gives ppl chance to realise their imaginations not only to make a copy of our poor and boring world!
u can mix all the interesting things u can imagine!

great work!

legacy-Ulukai|PlanetUnreal · 02-01-2003, 09:55 AM

Thank y'all for the positive comments.

Altan is right to an extent about the windows needing to be thicker and more detailed. Also, the ribs should be more three dimensional (Which they now are). This is valuable feedback..... I'm working on some of the detailing issues, but there are still polycounts to bear in mind. I won't cripple the framerate to doggedly follow architectural rules.

However, the jury is still out on whether of not altan is an "arsehole" depending on whether or not he can graciously (or ungraciously...) stand corrected on a number of issues and wild assumptions that seem to have crept in there

"Gothic buildings are devoted to icons of Christianity..."

"First off, Gothic churches/cathedrals aren't really the place to find oil paintings in frames as artwork."

Whoa, stop.

Who said this map was a church or cathedral? Wasn't me, and it isn't. Interesting that many people assume gothic architecture can only be present in religious buildings. Originally, it was. But it's use became more widespread than that.

Many grand houses and faux castles all over Europe were constructed or modified with beautful gothic shapes during the 19th century, mainly by rich aristocrats who loved the style. They had none of the constraints a public religious building had dictating what must or must not be placed inside or under the archways, and often used their gothic stylized homes as settings to show off the beautiful paintings and object d'art that they had collected.

Additonally, I've already stated on my page that I've temporarily borrowed the rail meshes from Sahagin prior to more fitting ones being constructed: "N.B. These staircases are still awaiting proper bannister rails, as opposed to skewed meshes borrowed from Sahagin"

Please take the time to read properly

The stairs aren't great, but I didn't "lazily" build them in UED; they have small caps on the leading edge but it's hard to tell from the screenshots. The texturing issues are subjective to personal opinion, although admittedly there are alignments to fix.

See pic below. It's a house, it has gothic influenced architecture. With paintings. And the architecture doesn't stop being gothic when the sun comes out...

Lastly, I don't need luck. I need time & patience

**legacy-Doctor7** · 02-01-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Ulukai|PlanetUnreal
Lastly, I don't need luck. I need time & patience

Oh yeah, I'll second that

sometimes you get a 'holy sh*t, that worked' in the middle of a map, but with one that fits together as tightly as this it's got to be mostly legwork.

I just can't believe that in the time I've been working on a gothic/industrial map (Warhammer 40K inspired, so more Victorian boiler room with a bit of gothic trim), Nirvana and Victoria have been released and this one is on the way :weird: