Judgement, please have better map layouts...

[NeroRevolver]

Gears 2 had my favorite maps from all the games out so far.

When I look and compare them to maps in 3 I become worried.

Out of all the Gears 2 maps I disliked maybe 2 or 3

In Gears of war 3 I disliked ALL but maybe 4 or 5 out of 26?

It's not because I'm trying to be biased towards size or anything, but 3 has maps that are way to large and have way to many weapon spawns that cater to specific game types.

Which made the over all experience for me dull because I use to play a no-spawn game type.
------
Maps need to have pivotal strong points with minimal flank routes. To allow for many clutch situations. Gears 3 doesn't allow this because a lot of the time because on a lot of maps 2 snipers, a boom/digger/torque/Hammer, 2 sets of frags and inks are available.

If over-whelmed in numbers you might as well put your controller down and await to be stunned.

Now I know this is going to get a lot of hate because some people do like the over-all size of the maps better in 3. This is purely my opinion even. But I really believe if you want to breath life into this game competitive wise again, stop making such big maps that don't allow for clutch-hype situations.

I can go on and on about the maps. Others point out some things map based you'd like to see in Gears Judgement and let me know something.

I want this game to make me cry tears of joy. But I doubt it will when I get flanked from 4 different directions and stunned by 2 inks and gibbed into bits by power weapons.

[NeroRevolver]

I really enjoy the developers creativity that they bring when they want to make something new and fresh for the franchise.

But a lot of us as competitive gamers only buy the newest version of a game for balancing reasons, new-retrospecs and mostly things that can't be fixed via software updates.

I understand programming wise you have to make a map based around the size that allows you to use certain types of locust characters for OverRun, Beast and Horde but it's beginning to make me sad in other areas.

The areas that I love about this game.

[Time Victim]

If PCF has any say in the MP maps, we shouldn't be worried.

[No KNOTsense]

Gears 3's maps are flawed because of too many power weapons, too many altitude variations, and not enough cover.

[Coleyman]

The maps in Judgement need to focus less on gaining a central height advantage and abusing rifles with them. The best maps in Gears 3 are the ones that don't lend themselves to fighting over a central position that overlooks the rest of the map that can easily be abused by rifles.

[NeroRevolver]

If PCF has any say in the MP maps, we shouldn't be worried.

I hope you are right. :)

But when it comes to objective based game-types, which TDM is the most catered too I believe. Aside from the obvious horde/beast stuff then the maps have to be of a medium-large scale to prevent spawn trapping and such.


Gears 3's maps are flawed because of too many power weapons, too many altitude variations, and not enough cover.

Bingo. Overpass

[NeroRevolver]

The maps in Judgement need to focus less on gaining a central height advantage and abusing rifles with them. The best maps in Gears 3 are the ones that don't lend themselves to fighting over a central position that overlooks the rest of the map that can easily be abused by rifles.

Exactly, Checkout and Old Town come into mind when I think of this.

[flowerz77]

Gears 3's maps are flawed because of too many power weapons, too many altitude variations, and not enough cover.
^This. Even behind cover, half the time people can still get you by moving a over a bit. Well said.

[No KNOTsense]

^This. Even behind cover, half the time people can still get you by moving a over a bit. Well said.

That's why my favorite maps in the game are Checkout and Raven Down.

[Poogy]

The way maps are in G3, there's a flank route to flank the flank thats flanking the flank. Because of all the paths. I dont like it. Gears 2 maps just felt so right.

[flowerz77]

That's why my favorite maps in the game are Checkout and Raven Down.
Ya me to! People can't camp and it's always fun matches on those maps.

[Bazinga-A7X]

You guys keep forgetting the maps are being designed for multiple game modes. They have to work for Horde, Vs and Beast. Therfore due to boss sizes in Horde, archways are larger, and overall maps size increased. Some work well in Vs, and suck in Horde. Other work great in Horde, and suck in VS.

Given that Judgment maps are being designed for Overun, again, large things will be in play on the map, expect more of the same, but maybe better implemented knowing what they do now fater some maps proved to have issues (Overpass).

[Valafar123]

Gears 3 maps are too open. I miss the GoW2 maps. They were tighter and supported gameplay much better. The GoW3 maps have lots of open space, which is a no-no.

[NeroRevolver]

You guys keep forgetting the maps are being designed for multiple game modes. They have to work for Horde, Vs and Beast. Therfore due to boss sizes in Horde, archways are larger, and overall maps size increased. Some work well in Vs, and suck in Horde. Other work great in Horde, and suck in VS.

Given that Judgment maps are being designed for Overun, again, large things will be in play on the map, expect more of the same, but maybe better implemented knowing what they do now fater some maps proved to have issues (Overpass).

You forget that certain bosses can be active on certain maps.

That being the case if it comes down to it make overrun and horde specific maps!

I'm tired of getting hyped for games I believe are going to be hype and balanced when things such as maps ruin that thought.

[Flame Theron]

Agreed. I can't stand 70% of the maps in 3.

[SQuirrel147]

You forget that certain bosses can be active on certain maps.

That being the case if it comes down to it make overrun and horde specific maps!

I'm tired of getting hyped for games I believe are going to be hype and balanced when things such as maps ruin that thought.

They could always do what Halo does, have different map varients for each gametype/mode. So the MP version of say, Gridlock is how it should be. But then for Horde and Beast it's slightly different.

[Coleyman]

Exactly, Checkout and Old Town come into mind when I think of this.

Checkout, yeah. But Old Town? The height advantage received by the 'higher' spawning team is much more limited than it is in other maps. I'd consider it to be one of the least offending maps. What springs to my mind is Overpass and Sandbar. We've all had those games where it's all about gaining top advantage and mowing everybody down with active Lancers/Hammerbursts.

[NeroRevolver]

Checkout, yeah. But Old Town? The height advantage received by the 'higher' spawning team is much more limited than it is in other maps. I'd consider it to be one of the least offending maps. What springs to my mind is Overpass and Sandbar. We've all had those games where it's all about gaining top advantage and mowing everybody down with active Lancers/Hammerbursts.


That thing that doesnt make Old Towns elevation spawn to much better is the fact that the lower spawn is given enough cover to work around it. While the top spawn is open.

Then again I'd rather not have to use a smoke grenade to stun someone.

Ugh Gears 3 marked the return of a lot of things we just didnt want...

[NeroRevolver]

They could always do what Halo does, have different map varients for each gametype/mode. So the MP version of say, Gridlock is how it should be. But then for Horde and Beast it's slightly different.

They usually do SOMETHING different to the maps in horde. like on pavilion on gears 2 how they opened the cathedral doors and such?

But Gears always has maps that looks like certain areas could be opened up but they aren't. Like you said they could always alter them for certain modes.

I would be down for that.

[Valafar123]

The only GoW2 maps I didn't like were Ruins and Stasis. The other ones were fine.

[Father Russia]

I really enjoy the developers creativity that they bring when they want to make something new and fresh for the franchise.

But a lot of us as competitive gamers only buy the newest version of a game for balancing reasons, new-retrospecs and mostly things that can't be fixed via software updates.

I understand programming wise you have to make a map based around the size that allows you to use certain types of locust characters for OverRun, Beast and Horde but it's beginning to make me sad in other areas.

The areas that I love about this game.




What is this? A poem? I'm joking but the rise in random formats of posts has become odd. Otherwise I must admit I enjoyed GoW1 maps the most; Jacinto and River was good, and Day One was solid.

[Clone Recon]

Definetly, I loved gears 2 maps more than any other gears game. In gears 3 i only enjoy about 5 of them.

[NeroRevolver]

What is this? A poem? I'm joking but the rise in random formats of posts has become odd. Otherwise I must admit I enjoyed GoW1 maps the most; Jacinto and River was good, and Day One was solid.

Yes because the centering of text makes a post into a sonate.

But honestly, Day One would be a really good map for the new style or horde and it isnt that big at all.

[sempiternal]

I think Epic will take a lot from what we've told them about Gears 3's maps and deliver a better, fairer collection. I'm positive we won't see another Overpass (although, having said that, I love love love Overpass for Horde).

[the_suicide_fox]

Gears 1 maps I hate: Rooftops, Garden

Gears 2 maps I hate: Day One, Hail, Grindyard, Ruins, Stasis, Way Station, Flood

Gears 3 maps I hate: Overpass, Drydock, Sandbar, Azura (sometimes)

So large maps with too many vantage points, not enough flanking routes, and easily camped dead ends are the bad Gears maps. Also some maps like Clocktower 3/Bullet Marsh 3 need more cover near spawn or better ways to get out of spawn (wasn't and issue in Gears 1 with no respawning modes) .

IMO the best maps in each are Old Bones, Allfathers, and Jacinto 3. Perfect balance of size, pathways, and cover.

[Sleepwalker]

I think the general census that most people think that way. I think maps need have less routes to flank and not have any maps like *cough* Escalation *cough* less power weapons would help a lot.

[RoboSeal1]

i also loved every gears 2 map except for a few, and only like a few gears 3 maps lol

seems like gears 1 maps were designed for exec/warzone, gears 2 designed for guardian, and gears 3 designed for horde and abused by TDM

they need to focus on more maps like OLD TOWN, and like someone above me said NOT SO MUCH POWER WEAPONS, especially grenades, CHOOSE ONE dont put every grenade on the map

[GearsKraZY]

i love the maps in GOW3 i wish they bring back many of the ones from GOW2 but i think it makes it more exciting when you have to stay on you toes and people cant play the camping game

[Nevermind1982]

Are you kidding me OP? Gear 3 had the best maps by far. I mean all Gears games have got maps that I don't enjoy, but Gears 3 had the most maps I do enjoy.

[DenyThisFlesh]

I think Gears 1 had the best maps(including the best map ever, War Machine). Gears 2 was mostly ok, but other than a handful of maps I wasn't a fan. Gears 3 is kind of a mixed bag. A lot of the launch maps have that annoying high ground control issue, but most of the DLC maps have been really good IMO.

[the rattle5nake]

I don't have a problem with the majority of the maps on Gears 3

[the rattle5nake]

I think the vast majority of gears 3 maps are decent. Sometimes nostalgia makes the heart grow fonder

[ObservationSlave]

Team Deathmatch ruined the maps for Gears 3, because Epic had to create maps that cater to TDM. Gears 2 maps were much better.

[Dan Ace X]

So true. The only Gears 2 versus maps I didn't like were Highway, Flood, Grindyard, and the gas station one. But they were so great for Horde that I didn't mind.

[PhillyEagleDude]

There is so much unnecessary elevations in some of the Gears 3 maps. Very few of the maps do I actually enjoy Epic has really lost their way on map design along the way it seems.

[TerrorTwilight]

Gears 3's maps are flawed because of too many power weapons, too many altitude variations, and not enough cover.

That is the biggest problem. In just about every map there is a 'bird's nest' area where you have a 270 degree of the entire map. Even more so, the rifles are insanely overpowered and the cover on the lower levels is too low. Something needs to change.

[NeroRevolver]

That is the biggest problem. In just about every map there is a 'bird's nest' area where you have a 270 degree of the entire map. Even more so, the rifles are insanely overpowered and the cover on the lower levels is too low. Something needs to change.

I dont expect this to change with the new scout type character for OverRun.

That being said Epic some what edits maps for certain modes. So hopefully they can do something to balance out these elevation factors.

[III HOOP III]

Gears 3's maps are flawed because of too many power weapons, too many altitude variations, and not enough cover.

Agreed! Gears 3 maps are not as good as Gears 1 and Gears 2, especially 2. Gears 2 had wonderful maps IMO.

[Richtophen]

Gears 1 maps were the best (gonna count pc maps too that made it into gears 2)

Courtyard
Gridlock
FUEL DEPOT
Mansion
War Machine
Canals
Gold Rush

Hell even Tyro and Subway were fun sometimes.

[III HOOP III]

I think the vast majority of gears 3 maps are decent. Sometimes nostalgia makes the heart grow fonder

Sometimes being the key word. The maps are nice to look at, not so nice to play on. Like said above many times, too many power weapons, too many height advantages, etc. River, Security, Ruins, Allfathers, Jacinto, Mansion, Fuel Depot- just to name a few- these are all great maps. Compared to Academy, Sandbar, overpass, etc-

[NeroRevolver]

I just think the inclusion of boss waves in horde, fortifications, other respawn gametypes made it so medium to small sized maps were pretty much nonexistent.

Which is sad.

Because non-respawn gametypes were my favorite.

[HRPac]

Epic is in charge of multiplayer, PCF is doing the campaign. I think map design will follow the trend set by the past three titles which means it won't be like the last one. Who knows what types of maps we'll get? IMO, GoW2 maps > GoW3 maps > GoW1 maps but to each his own.

[WaldoRtk7]

http://www.gearscon.com/2012/06/gears-of-war-judgement-full-review/#comments

Excerpt from my above article
"Unlike the entire collection of maps from the all the previous Gears of War games, Judgments maps for OverRun are centrally focused on the objectives and not power weapons. Rooftops, the map from the demo, is designed to have two main lanes or pathways that lead to the final objective. Rooftops also has many crossways for flanking and ambushing within the two main lanes, which allows for the abilities to pinch and counter your opponents at any point in time. Our staff felt that the overall flow of the map, while focusing on the objectives, also allowed for teams the freedom to strategize and go on the offense when the opportunity allowed. Another advantage to the design of Rooftops is the action was a constant fire fight. Even after eliminating one wave of Locust, there was only a matter of seconds before they were pushing back through your defenses."

[RAAM_the_destroyer]

The way maps are in G3, there's a flank route to flank the flank thats flanking the flank. Because of all the paths. I dont like it. Gears 2 maps just felt so right.

what he said, though he was one flanking route shy, gears 2 maps were best

[NeroRevolver]

http://www.gearscon.com/2012/06/gears-of-war-judgement-full-review/#comments

Excerpt from my above article
"Unlike the entire collection of maps from the all the previous Gears of War games, Judgments maps for OverRun are centrally focused on the objectives and not power weapons. Rooftops, the map from the demo, is designed to have two main lanes or pathways that lead to the final objective. Rooftops also has many crossways for flanking and ambushing within the two main lanes, which allows for the abilities to pinch and counter your opponents at any point in time. Our staff felt that the overall flow of the map, while focusing on the objectives, also allowed for teams the freedom to strategize and go on the offense when the opportunity allowed. Another advantage to the design of Rooftops is the action was a constant fire fight. Even after eliminating one wave of Locust, there was only a matter of seconds before they were pushing back through your defenses."

As long as they can traverse to over to competitive multiplayer without a hitch ill be ecstatic!

[Hazama]

To be completely honest, I think most people would be happy if most GoWJ maps were similar in size to Checkout.
It seems to be by far, the best 'overall' map. (You can run lots of strategies, caters to all combinations of starting loadouts, it's easy to use all (if not most) pickup weapons, multiple points of interest/strategic value, etc.)

if GoWJ ships with about 7-10 shipped maps (per se), I'd would hope that at least four or five of them are made in a similar fashion. The other ones can be made with other things in mind like; size, priority, etc. But you'd probably still see the smaller ones being more popular among the community and competitively.

[ManicRaider]

Glad to see that there are people besides me who don't necessary like the big size of Gears 3 maps or the million and one flank routes.

[Masteralex09]

Maps that have a high point should be like day one, Blood Drive, or River, There would be another high point across the map.

[SnappyDude]

:) Gears 1 has my favorite maps of all time, Gears 2 had the 2nd most amazing maps ever with neat environmental effects, and Gears 3 had like 2 different map layouts reskined 20 some odd times with slight variations. There are maybe 2 to 5 maps in 3 I like, so hopefully they do better this time. :0

[Dead Cell Raam]

Most of the maps in GOW 3 limit the player in terms of getting around the map. Checkout and Raven Down are excellent maps. They have a center point in which you can pivot to any position you want to on the map. To top it off, you have adequete cover in doing so. Plus, they bring this feeling of territory with them. I feel I can take on a certain part of the map and not worry about getting flanked because other people (friendly or foe) are taking control over other certain parts of the map also. It's like 3 or 4 seperate warzones going on at once.

Sandbar and Overpass make the general population feel the need to take top control. Once a decent team gets the top...it's pretty much over with. You have active lancers and Hb's watching boom/hod and both sides of the map like hawks. It's human nature in wanting to take back the hill or to take the hill so to speak. These maps wouldn't be so bad, but the fact people know there's only two sides and one way to get up the stairs or cliff, makes it harder to take it from them. Look at Overpass. Put your best guys with rifles on the side where the silver back in horde sets and put another guy on the turret. I believe if there were stairs on the side that led to the turret, then there would be no issues.

Another problem I see with GOW 3 maps, there is too much space in between the space at a good height advantage. Look at the top of sandbar. The cover at the edge of the cliffs and the distance between it and the arches is too long and too wide. If there was room for 2 to squeeze in and it was a shorter distance, again, it wouldn't so much of an issue. Most people wouldn't run up there because they would be competing with that guy that always rushes the power weapons for that spot. A good example would be stasis. Yeah it had a high vantage point, but no way in hell would you have a guy stand in the middle spamming that boomshot or mulcher. That's because there were two way of getting up there. It had limited cover and was a "thin" walk way. There was only cover for the front and back....not the sides. You had an advantage and a disavantage...not a full-on lancer/hammerburst firing squad perch.

[ThatOneGuy]

I believed that gears 3 maps a flawed because they do not have 2 vantage points. Where most gears 2 maps did.

[Dead Cell Raam]

I believed that gears 3 maps a flawed because they do not have 2 vantage points. Where most gears 2 maps did.

Kind of the point i was getting too. I'm so long winded. haha

[Coleyman]

That is the biggest problem. In just about every map there is a 'bird's nest' area where you have a 270 degree of the entire map. Even more so, the rifles are insanely overpowered and the cover on the lower levels is too low. Something needs to change.

This is a good summary of what the problem is with GoW3's maps.

[james288gto]

Personally I loved the maps in Gears 2. Maps in 3 are so open with so many lines of sight I find it hard to be aware of everyone. In Gears 2 it was easier to play as a lone wolf but maybe that's the point of the maps not sure.

[NP473L]

I <3 this thread. :p



Gears 2 maps were all enjoyable, barring a select (and I mean a select) few. The problems (for me) with Gears 3 maps is that they....well....what everybody else has said. Too open, too vantage and altitude dominant, not enough isolation and therefore opportunity, too many power weapons, lines of sight etc.

Looking back, I enjoyed playing on (bear in mind, I'm primarily an objective gamemode player, so these are really going to be heavily Annex/KoTH biased, although after that comes Execution without a shadow of a doubt):

- Avalanche
- Security
- Blood Drive
- Pavilion
- Hail (to some extent)
- Ruins (to some extent)
- Gridlock
- Mansion
- Canals
- Flood (to some extent)
- Courtyard
- Fuel Depot
- Allfathers Garden
- Memorial
- Sanctuary
- War Machine
- Highway
- Way Station (to some extent)
- Nowhere

In Gears 3, I enjoy these:

- Checkout
- Drydock (to some extent)
- Hotel
- Old Town (to some extent)
- Trenches (to some extent)
- The Slab
- Depths
- Cove
- Clocktower
- Gridlock (to some extent)
- Raven Down
- Escalation (come at me bro)

...that's more than I expected to like, but to be honest, half of those I'm not overly fond of. I think they 'work' for their intentions, but it's not how I enjoy playing and creates for unentertaining Gears gameplay (again, to me).

[Scar Tisshoo]

We need more maps where its not "GO TO TOP AND STAY THERE."

[GearsMaestro]

the best map for me in Gears 3 is checkout and that is small and has minimal power weapons, so your argument is very valid and agree with it 100%

[NeroRevolver]

the best map for me in Gears 3 is checkout and that is small and has minimal power weapons, so your argument is very valid and agree with it 100%

Im glad you and a lot of others agree.

Im hoping PCF and EPIC take advice that we give them on this subject and blow us away map wise.

[Richtophen]

the best map for me in Gears 3 is checkout and that is small and has minimal power weapons, so your argument is very valid and agree with it 100%

and of course, even that map just turns into camp at the registers every round and game over for the other team on sniper rounds.


Single vantage points are bad
Too many power weapons are bad
Hell, I think that sometimes having neutral powerweapons/different ones for each side is bad.

[NeroRevolver]

and of course, even that map just turns into camp at the registers every round and game over for the other team on sniper rounds.


Single vantage points are bad
Too many power weapons are bad
Hell, I think that sometimes having neutral powerweapons/different ones for each side is bad.

It can be hard to get to registers if some players are perched on top of inks/flames.

But I find it quite easy to get back there on boltok rounds. I get 2 or 3 guys to push with smokes and I pop heads with boltok or at least attempt to while they advance and it usually works.

Frags are very easy to get kills with back there too.

[Maaaaaz]

I want this game to make me cry tears of joy. But I doubt it will when I get flanked from 4 different directions and stunned by 2 inks and gibbed into bits by power weapons.


This I agree with the most.
Needs to happen less.