NG FAQ and pros/cons of both NG and OG [Archive]

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DarthDuck

01-10-2012, 08:34 PM

This post needs a lot of work. Please wait about a week and I will rewrite it based on how the discussion turns out.

Useful Links

IB2:

=Silver=: Dual Survival Guide Series (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/874145-Dual-Survival-Guide-Series)
DangerCZ: Map of the castle (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/864114-Infinity-Blade-II-Map-of-The-Castle)
gillybean: Complete list of all locked items (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/863538-List-of-all-locked-items-in-Infinity-Blade)
arCtyC: Video walkthrough series (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/868976-Infinity-Blade-Tips-amp-Walkthrough-Series-Spoilers)
AzrinRain: Farming the treasure in the king's tomb by resetting (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/864530-A-trick-to-farm-gold-IB2)

Gem List (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/870243-Master-Gem-List)
Backing up game savepoints (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/872012-How-to-back-up-save-points-(using-iFunBox))
Allocating magic points (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/871548-Magic-regen-rate-caps-with-100-magic-points)
Allocating stat points in OG (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/869394-A-defense-of-HP-stats-in-OG)
Choosing how much to stack perk gems (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/876008-Confirmed-perk-gems-stack-until-2000)

IB1:

Hithere: How to kill the god-king (with animated gifs) (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/755434-Guide-Every-God-King-Attack-and-How-To-Avoid-Them-with-Animated-GIF-Images!)
Voice of Freedom: How to get and keep all unlocked weapons (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/796357-How-to-get-(-amp-keep)-ALL-secret-weapons!)
Curi: Infinity Blade I Guide (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/755093-curi-s-Infinity-Blade-1-Guide)

New Game+ (NG)

NG pros

Guaranteed infinite gameplay (agree: bladet, silversabeast, darth)

"It gets easier with each increment since player strength grows faster than enemy strength" (bladet, ericmurphy, darth)

You can "load last rebirth" to go back to the last NG if you are stuck—particularly on the shade. (fact)

Very hard for the first few NGs (agree: bladet, silversabeast, darth)

"Some may consider this a con because it can get too hard, but no one disagrees with this point. Joining NG sooner than later will amplify this difficulty" (bladet, silversabeast, darth)

Fighting the Shade without a resistance gem is hardcore (agree: bladet, silversabeast, darth)

"You start against the Shade with a light weapon, and while all of its moves are blockable with a resistance gem, you don't get one so it will break through each block with its elemental damage." (bladet, silversabeast, darth)

You get an Anarachax. This is the best heavy weapon. - (agree: everyone)

NG cons

You can't fight any given boss more than once in the same NG round. (agree: everyone)

There is a strong pressure to make IAPs due to pressure in the early NGs. (agree: everyone)
Standardized god-king level challenges become obsolete without a ratio of GK level divided by personal level (agree: bladet, silversabeast, =Silver=, darth)

"Saying that you killed a certain level GK in NG doesn't mean anything without a ratio indicating difficulty since your level rises along with the GK in NG." (bladet, silversabeast, =Silver=)

NG is extremely time-consuming, which doesn't work well if you only have a limited amount of time to play the game (silversabeast, darth) (disagree?: bladet) < In need of being reworded, please offer suggestion.

"The infinite gameplay and sheer amount of time for the remastery process make NG a bottomless time sink" (silversabeast, darth)

The level cap is 604, dropping you back down to level 123 if you hit it. (agree: bladet, silversabeast, ruggedland, leandro)
All locked items exclusive to NG are worthless except for Anarchax (agree: everyone)

Original Game (OG)

[B]OG pros

In the long term, OG is far more difficult than NG. (agree: silversabeast, bladet, Harry-Son, =Silver=, darth)

"If killing a new Raidriar every 5 levels, then on average the Titans only go up 5 levels per rebirth while Thane and Raidriar go up 20 levels per rebirth." (silversabeast, darth)

You can "load last rebirth" as many times as you want to lower or maintain Titan levels. (fact)
You can kill a new boss every rebirth. (fact)
After a certain point when most of your gems are near-capped, the relative difficulty level only increases, forcing your only asset to be newfound skills. (agree: everyone)
God-king level challenges are automatically standardized and there is no need for ratios if on an OG campaign. (agree: silversabeast, =Silver=, bladet, darth)
The bosses get tough after about level 4,000—and that's each boss not just the GK. (agree: silversabeast, darth)

"This is a pro because using restore points (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/872012-How-to-back-up-save-points-using-Mac-or-PC), you can go back to any level boss you want. And if you have a jailbroken device, then you don't even need to be near a computer; instead you can use iFile" (silversabeast, bladet, darth)

Entering very high rebirths will cause attack speeds to increase, although it is not yet clear whether this is gradual or in tiers. (agree: silversabeast, bladet, darth) (highly skeptical: =Silver=).

[LEFT]

OG cons

The Titans level too slow. (agree: silversabeast, bladet, darth)

"If killing a new Raidriar every 5 levels, then on average the Titans only go up 5 levels per rebirth while Thane and Raidriar go up 20 levels per rebirth. This means that the Titans will never catch up to the bosses level, and the gap between them will only widen." (silversabeast, darth)

The square gems in heavy weapons break at some point, although magically repair themselves back at some point (agree: bladet, darth)
[bug] The money cap is 95 million, dropping you back down to 45 million if you hit it. (fact)
At some point you will become stuck and unable to progress since you do not level along with the Titans. But arguably this can always be remedied with some training sessions against bosses where you force your native skills to increase (agree: silversabeast, darth)
No Anarchax (fact)

[B]comments:

Many new members come here asking questions without reading the forums (who can blame them really, there's quite a lot). But since they usually ask the same questions over and over again, particularly "Why should I play OG or NG?", I think it would be nice to be able to link them to a thread rather than repeat the same points, which is unfair and tedious to our frequent forum-goers. it's not a secret that I have bias toward OG, so if anyone can find a way to make any points in here more clear-cut and objective then please speak up. Otherwise, I will try my hardest to remain neutrality.

I will begin by adding a pro for OG by saying that it is more difficult. I will state my reason up front: I have spent a lot of times reading the forums and the only reason I have come across stating that that NG is the most difficult is that "OG is for noobs", which is a circular argument. Note that what is a pro for one person may be a con for another; for example, someone might prefer more relaxed gameplay, in which higher difficulty would be a con and not a pro.

Please add to the list, stating which game path you are referring to and whether it is a pro or con. Also, if I add your name to the list because I saw your point in a different thread, and you feel that I am misrepresenting you, please tell me and I will change your point/reason or remove your name.
Contradictions on this chart will be acceptable since the conflicting points will be tagged by supporting members. For example, there might be 7 people supporting the claim that one is more difficult and therefore a pro, and 2 people saying that the other is more difficult and therefore a pro. Readers can judge for themselves based on the quantity of votes and the quality of reasons provided.

If you are making a controversial point, then please provide a reason so that it can be inserted on the list. If you see a point that you support, say so and your name will be tagged either in support or opposition to that point.

As I see "new" questions being asked I will add them to this list, please feel free to chip in to this:

NG FAQ

How do I start NG?

After killing Raidrair, it will appear in your character slots assuming you have the most recent update of the game from the app store.

I entered NG and I don't have any money or items. Is that supposed to happen?

Yes

NG^1 is too hard! How do I try again?

From within NG, reset to rebirth 1, then you can delete that game slot. Assuming you have the most recent update from the app store, you will get a new NG slot in your character slots after killing Raidriar again.

I killed Raidriar once but don't want to go to NG yet. What if I kill him again to level up more?

Then you NG slot will rise in level too assuming you never hit the green "PLAY" button, in which case your NG progress will be locked.

What equipment should I go for in NG?

Grinder weapons will give you lots of cheap XP, which becomes increasingly easy to exploit as your NG level rises since you get a higher attack. You will also want to get your hands on a Shield Halo and then an Atomic Loop as soon as you can. As for easy kills, save up for a granite hammer and then an easy stone (awesome heavy weapons).

Should I buy keys?

You should keep your small keys at 4/5, medium at 4/5, and large at 5/5 as soon as possible. Open every chest you can and keep your keys filled up like this. Buying them early is the literally the key to making money.

When should I go onto the next NG?

Be extremely careful before entering the first few NGs, leveling up as much as you can. After that, you will be able to have streaks where you hardly have to level anything at all to progress. But if you jump the gun in the early NG stages then you can get stuck on the Shade and be forced into IAPs unless—

You can always choose "load last rebirth" to jump back to the previous NG, where you have defeated the all the intro titans with less base stats. So you must be able to do it again.

And if you do that, you can actually master the "next" level of items (e.g. NG^5 and choose "load last rebirth", you will go back to NG^4. But you will be able to master all items 5 times). This should save you from buying IAPs if intro titans are too hard.

Silversabeast

01-10-2012, 09:18 PM

someone sticky this!

also add my agreement to about every single one of those

DarthDuck

01-10-2012, 09:21 PM

also add my agreement to about every single one of those
Ok lol, tell me if you want one taken down, I will sign you up for each point/reason minus the square gem bug with heavy weapons (assuming you have not experienced that).

Silversabeast

01-10-2012, 09:24 PM

Ok lol, tell me if you want one taken down, I will sign you up for each point/reason.yep ii agree to every single one otf these

BLADET

01-10-2012, 09:49 PM

NG is extremely time-consuming, which doesn't work well if you only have a limited amount of time to play the game (agree: silversabeast, darth)

only question I have is re this. in what way is NG more time-consuming than OG? the amount of rebirths to face the same titan lvl is roughly the same; titan lvl 1330 in NG lvl 604, which I guess would amount to ca 300 rebirths - the same goes for OG. the time consuming elements in NG is remastering items (and hence also cash) while it is longer fights in OG (since one doesn't gain in stats).

both paths lead to the castle, with the same titans/gods. the question is whether one want to make that journey through longer fights or by searching for items/cash. the prize for taking the first route is higher stats while the latter rewards the player with harder fights.

edit: I do realise that in theory NG is infinitive while OG seem to be finitive, ie at some point it will get to hard. but as long as one would learn all moves by all opponents and never be hit OG would be infinitive too. (as long as there are no caps, as now with lvl 604 in NG, which I presume they will sort in an update.)

I agree with everything else in NG pros and cons; maybe this one as well if you can explain to me why this is the case.

as always a great initiative and most welcome, think this will give many ppl more value for their money spent buying the game and the time invested getting to know it. cheers!

DarthDuck

01-10-2012, 11:21 PM

Apologies in advance if I express my bias but I will try to answer this as accurately as I can,

Bladet: "In what way is NG more time-consuming than OG?"

I'm not aware of anyone who's further in OG than either one of us, and that's out of 800k players. Meanwhile, you once mentioned to me that you have minimal time to play this game "sometimes you do 10 rebirths in a day, sometimes you do one". I also have very little time to play so I try to make that time count when I can.

I have easily spent more solid time collaborating on the forums than I have playing the actual game (I have enjoyed that though.) Yesterday I only got through a half a rebirth, and I still haven't even finished that same rebirth today even though it's late-afternoon here in Hawaii. And just as a datapoint, not saying that I am any more skilled than anyone else, but I don't think anyone in the world (playing OG) is remotely near my current GK level. I have no doubt that once more time has passed that plenty will surpass me and prove to be more skilled (coming from the tetris community I'm used to being in the bottom tier of skill), my point is just that I'm currently able to claim the highest OG GK level in the world despite being able to apply a very limited amount of time.

In contrast, consider trying to get to the top in NG. Even if you had IAPs, trying to outgrind Leandro will never happen unless you have 15 hours a day at your disposal. You likely will not pass Ruggedland either (who has very impressive progress by the way). With these examples it should be easy to see how much more sheer time it would take to climb the NG ladder. And without IAPs that might even be impossible even if you made it your life's work.

Note that this is not a slander at all on NG. I once had a lot of time to play games but not so much anymore. I'm just trying to be descriptive about the experience of playing NG—you can play as much as you want but it will always feel like you could have put in more time. With OG however, once you make the initial grind and get to a point of resistance, then you can play as much as you want (or as little) and it's all the same. One last small point is that with NG there are periods in every cycle which are not challenging at all (perhaps once you get that momentum in the mastery process). But past the point of resistance in OG, say rebirth 250+ with near-perfect gems and a GK level of 4,000+, you don't have lulls (or spikes) anymore in difficulty. It's always hard and you don't have to put in blocks of time to get the next difficult phase. One last point is that the length of time between boss fights in NG seems longer since you don't always get to fight a boss and that point alone seems to be enough to show that it feels like you need to spend more time to play NG.

Edit:
it's just that NG might feel like more of a time consumer
Yes I was just trying to describe the experience of playing and how it feels like you need to put in more time (to keep up).

Aussi3

01-10-2012, 11:30 PM

Apologies in advance if I express my bias but I will try to answer this as accurately as I can,

Bladet: "In what way is NG more time-consuming than OG?"

I'm not aware of anyone who's further in OG than either one of us, and that's out of 800k players. Meanwhile, you once mentioned to me that you have minimal time to play this game "sometimes you do 10 rebirths in a day, sometimes you do one". I also have very little time to play so I try to make that time count when I can.

I have easily spent more solid time collaborating on the forums than I have playing the actual game (I have enjoyed that though.) Yesterday I only got through a half a rebirth, and I still haven't even finished that same rebirth today even though it's late-afternoon here in Hawaii. And just as a datapoint, not saying that I am any more skilled than anyone else, but I don't think anyone in the world (playing OG) is remotely near my current GK level. I have no doubt that once more time has passed that plenty will surpass me and prove to be more skilled (coming from the tetris community I'm used to being in the bottom tier of skill), my point is just that I'm currently able to claim the highest OG GK level in the world despite being able to apply a very limited amount of time.

In contrast, consider trying to get to the top in NG. Even if you had IAPs, trying to outgrind Leandro will never happen unless you have 15 hours a day at your disposal. You likely will not pass Ruggedland either (who has very impressive progress by the way). With these examples it should be easy to see how much more sheer time it would take to climb the NG ladder. And without IAPs that might even be impossible even if you made it your life's work.

Note that this is not a slander at all on NG. I once had a lot of time to play games but not so much anymore. I'm just trying to be descriptive about the experience of playing NG—you can play as much as you want but it will always feel like you could have put in more time. With OG however, once you make the initial grind and get to a point of resistance, then you can play as much as you want (or as little) and it's all the same. One last small point is that with NG there are periods in every cycle which are not challenging at all (perhaps once you get that momentum in the mastery process). But past the point of resistance in OG, say rebirth 250+ with near-perfect gems and a GK level of 4,000+, you don't have lulls (or spikes) anymore in difficulty. It's always hard and you don't have to put in blocks of time to get the next difficult phase. One last point is that the length of time between boss fights in NG since you don't always get to fight a boss and that point alone seems to be enough to show that it feels like you need to spend more time to play NG.

I think it would feel like a more time consuming task taking on NG, But if you had a player that spends 15hr's a day in OG then a player that spends 15hr's a day in NG+ their both as time consuming as each other it's just that NG might feel like more of a time consumer because you have longer between boss fights if you take a high RB to master more items or if you stay on NG to gain a few levels or do some gem hunting and stuff like that.

Nice thread by the way it will be helpful for new players and maybe old to help make their decision :p

BLADET

01-11-2012, 12:17 AM

I'm currently able to claim the highest OG GK level in the world despite being able to apply a very limited amount of time... In contrast, consider trying to get to the top in NG. Even if you had IAPs, trying to outgrind Leandro will never happen unless you have 15 hours a day at your disposal. You likely will not pass Ruggedland either (who has very impressive progress by the way). With these examples it should be easy to see how much more sheer time it would take to climb the NG ladder.

what you say is true, but that doesn't mean OG per se is less time consuming than NG. it just means people - and probably more people - have spent more time playing NG and hence that it's harder to reach "the top" in NG. when/if ppl who have time to play 15 hours a day chose to play in OG they will race ahead of us quickly.

Laughzxc

01-11-2012, 12:19 AM

But if you jump the gun in the early NG stages then you can get stuck on the Shade and be forced into IAPs.

You can always choose "load last rebirth" to jump back to the previous NG, where you have defeated the all the intro titans with less base stats. So you must be able to do it again.

And if you do that, you can actually master the "next" level of items (e.g. NG^5 and choose "load last rebirth", you will go back to NG^4. But you will be able to master all items 5 times). This should save you from buying IAPs if intro titans are too hard.

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 12:23 AM

Thanks I will add that point as a pro to NG. I will also add the parallel pro for OG that you can take a step back in the rebirths.

Edit: I will think about what you said Bladet. Maybe you can help me reword that point?

Aussi3

01-11-2012, 02:24 AM

You could just add time consuming as a con to OG as well because it's just as time consuming as NG depends what the person chooses and what they decide they want to achieve

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 03:18 AM

You could just add time consuming as a con to OG as well because it's just as time consuming as NG depends what the person chooses and what they decide they want to achieve

Absolutely. OG is arguably much worse (in terms of being too easy) for at least the first month if you consider your play casual at all. I just reverted to rebirth 76 today because I wanted to try my earliest recorded save point and it was so easy (with with I had, slow movement speed, gems etc) that I doubt NG would get that easy until NG^10 or NG^15.

Another OG con, but I think I covered it below, is that unfortunately even a rebirth 217 I know I'm not going to be getting official resistance until at least rb 300 because the bosses are 3000 while the enemies are barely over 1000 (they all ding 1000 in rb 201). At 300 they will only be 1500. Since I can beat the bosses in the 3000s with not much more than a couple or few tries each, I know at rb 800 when the titans are about level 4,000 that I will be able to kill them at least a third of the time. I would still presumable be able to kill them at least a third of the time based on my relative track record with the bosses. Rebirth 800 is a serious grind! But my hope is that at least at some point, say rb 1500, that "loading last rebirth" might actually be an option of interest.

Then again your bosses would also be higher, raising your personal native skill "points" at a faster rate from fighting higher profile bosses, and therefore still not at the plataeu you were after. Meaning that like NG (assuming they fix the level 604 bug), OG never really ends either. And like Bladet was saying, all we need is a few motivated individuals to set their sights on these 1500ish limits and they will easily be there while the both of us are still testing the waters in rb 800.

=Silver=

01-11-2012, 03:54 AM

Good and solid approach, Darth

Emotions is a strong and most ancient regulator of human behavior, but we have to control and train them to use it along with its nature. All the more, the power of persuasion needs two more forces apart from "pathos", they are "logos" (mind, logic) and "ethos" (moral aspect). Missing logos is a catastrophe, "dreaming mind gives birth to monsters" (c) :) So

1. NG pros
I agree with 1, 3 and 4 (simply because I was the first or one of, who said that). The rest are just hard facts

2. NG cons
Agree with 1 and 2, again being the author. And 3 needs some history insight. Speaking of NG from the skills POV I said once that the only skill you can show in NG is that you have the skill to play 24 hrs a day or to buy IAP. It was a kind joke, "containing some truth", meaning that since NG is not skills bound now, it may be limited just to how much time you have to play. It was just the demonstration of different, but equally respectable approaches to IB2: "skills testing" (OG) and "leveling" (NG). So, it doesn't mean that it takes more time in NG, it just mean that your progress in OG is limited by skills, while your progress in NG is limited just by the time you have.

3. OG pros
Agree with 1, 4 and 5.
2 and 3 - hard facts

6 - not sure. Difficulty leap may depend on your fighting style. Example from IB1. If you climbed up using blocks against GK's stepbacks, your limit was 8000 lvl GK. After that follows a great leap in difficulty, cause you can't block anymore, you must parry stepbacks and this is a great new skill. That's why I climb slow, but using dual weapons and "pure crack" strategy. I suppose then there won't be any difficulty leaps to infinity :)

7 - not sure. I counted 2 speed tiers for now. Got to go to 200 RB to check

4. OG cons
1 - ok. Though their leveling is faster than in IB1, it could be even more fast. But it's ok as is too
2, 3 and 5 - hard facts
4 - is the essence of OG gameplay, it can't be a con, it's pro

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 03:57 AM

Thanks Silver. It will take me a while to process all that and I am in the middle of writing something else right now. But I will mix it in the lists later.

Edit: But one thing I want to say is that pros and cons are usually completely relative. The same exact brute fact is a con to one person while a pro to another. That's why I was encouraging contradictions on the list.

Edit2, and I'm not trolling I really am asking, do you see any moral aspects here? (I don't think IAPs or resetting to rebirth 1 in OG should count as dimensions for that question.)

=Silver=

01-11-2012, 04:35 AM

Edit2, and I'm not trolling I really am asking, do you see any moral aspects here? (I don't think IAPs or resetting to rebirth 1 in OG should count as dimensions for that question.)

They may refer to content and/or to form

The "content ethos" refers to hacking numbers and GC, the rules of skills contests, other norms etc.

The "form ethos" is respecting other approaches and so

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 04:36 AM

I meant to ask, will someone make an OG FAQ please and I will just quote the whole thing? I don't want to write one since I have trouble thinking clearly on the issue considering my favoritism with it.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 03:58 PM

Edit: I will think about what you said Bladet. Maybe you can help me reword that point?

I'm just trying to be descriptive about the experience of playing NG—you can play as much as you want but it will always feel like you could have put in more time. With OG however, once you make the initial grind and get to a point of resistance, then you can play as much as you want (or as little) and it's all the same. One last small point is that with NG there are periods in every cycle which are not challenging at all (perhaps once you get that momentum in the mastery process). But past the point of resistance in OG, say rebirth 250+ with near-perfect gems and a GK level of 4,000+, you don't have lulls (or spikes) anymore in difficulty. It's always hard and you don't have to put in blocks of time to get the next difficult phase. One last point is that the length of time between boss fights in NG seems longer since you don't always get to fight a boss and that point alone seems to be enough to show that it feels like you need to spend more time to play NG.

Edit:
Yes I was just trying to describe the experience of playing and how it feels like you need to put in more time (to keep up).

based on my understand of what you've written I get the feeling what you try to express here is first an experience (qualia) of how it is to play NG. I think this is best left to each individual player to decide and hence either a pro or con of any particular game play. second tho, beneath this, we have the fact that the difficulty constantly get higher in OG while it's choppy in NG. but even this, according to me, is neither a pro or a con, it's just a matter of what one prefers and how one wants to play the game.

The "form ethos" is respecting other approaches and so

+1 to this being a virtue.

this leads me think it might be better to form the thread so it lists differences in game play in OG/NG and facts/known bugs rather than pros and cons. in that way it would give each player a guidence as to what to expect but leave the decision if this is good or bad, a pro or a con, to each and everyone.

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 04:32 PM

I think this is best left to each individual player to decide and hence either a pro or con of any particular game play. second tho, beneath this, we have the fact that the difficulty constantly get higher in OG while it's choppy in NG. but even this, according to me, is neither a pro or a con, it's just a matter of what one prefers and how one wants to play the game.

this leads me think it might be better to form the thread so it lists differences in game play in OG/NG and facts/known bugs rather than pros and cons. in that way it would give each player a guidence as to what to expect but leave the decision if this is good or bad, a pro or a con, to each and everyone.
I will keep an open mind to major layout changes, and assure you that at least minor ones will take place, but like I was saying below pros and cons are relative. Some consider needing to fight the Shade 10x because of lack of elemental resistance a con while others a pro. Doesn't tagging each pro or con with their associated supporters and contenders, as well as allowing room for contradiction, address any concerns you are raising?

And currently, facts are mixed in with the opinions where it's appropriate to call it a fact. Let me know if you see something that is arguable factual and then I can write (fact) instead of (agree: ...).

I am aware that the OP needs a lot of work and I assure you that I will fix it up and continue to work on it, I'm just a bit preoccupied right now and also intimidated by the depth and scope of the feedback so far. What you currently see below is just a rough outline. Please keep up the solid feedback and (to whomever) please let us know if you are drafting an OG FAQ so that we can avoid duplicate projects.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 06:07 PM

NG FAQ

Should I buy keys?

You should keep your small keys at 4/5, medium at 4/5, and large at 5/5 as soon as possible. Open every chest you can and keep your keys filled up like this. Buying them early is the literally the key to making money.

in OG this is a good tip, but is this something one want to do in NG? wouldn't it be better to just buy weapons? I do realise it makes it easier to master every item, since it will drop unlocked items, but that isn't necessary in NG. one can just master what one find and move on, and then when one do find the item master it several times later?

just want to make it clear I'm not criticizing the thread, it's a great initiative. just trying to help out, to make it appeal to everybody. (know you already know this Darth, just want to make it clear.) cheers!

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 06:18 PM

just want to make it clear I'm not criticizing the thread... just trying to help out, to make it appeal to everybody. cheers!

I cannot weed the bias out of that OP on my own; I need active help with that. It's the same with criticism because it's hard to read over your own work and see mistakes. I have absolutely no egotistical attachments to anything I wrote below. Although I'm trying to give credit where due, it doesn't matter to me who said or came up with with as long as the right info is there (and well presented). I can't do that alone and need all the criticism and input I can get. So far all input has been gold and I haven't seen any "Option A is bad because option A is for noobs" yet and have been pleased (although also overwhelmed) with the feedback so far. I assure you that no matter how behind on this I get, that every single point (even ninja-edited in at a later time) will be heavily considered and somehow mixed in once I see a way.

Name

01-11-2012, 07:21 PM

*NG is extremely time-consuming, which doesn't work well if you only have a limited amount of time to play the game (silversabeast, darth) (disagree?: bladet) < In need of being reworded, please offer suggestion.
"The infinite gameplay and sheer amount of time for the remastery process make NG a bottomless time sink" (silversabeast, darth)*

Ok, I have to disagree with this. After all, what about NG makes it more of a sink than OG? Since this is (mostly) a single player game, you can play as much as you want. 5 rebirths in NG doesn't take any longer than 5 rebirths in OG, after all. Personally, I've been caught up with school work so I've done 2 rebirths in as many weeks and that's been fine (it's not like my game has disappeared).

*After a certain point when most of your gems are near-capped, the relative difficulty level only increases, forcing your only asset to be newfound skills. (agree: everyone)*

Yeah, this is true, but it's not only true in OG. If at any point you want to park your character on a NG+ (I'm staying at NG10), you can do that. Admittedly you can't face the deathless, but that's not nearly all the fun in the game. This means that eventually, your level will cap off and the game will start getting harder, all while you can enjoy the benefits of leveling, more skill points, and mastering new items.

Aussi3

01-11-2012, 07:24 PM

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 07:40 PM

I know there's disagreement on the time sink thing but can anyone think of a different way to phrase a more accurate point in that spot?

Edit: even if you disagree with the point, can you think of a better way to phrase it? I can always tag you as being in disagreement with it even if you came up with it.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 08:02 PM

I know there's disagreement on the time sink thing but can anyone think of a different way to phrase a more accurate point in that spot?

based on your response, several. something like this?

The difficulty within each NG is diminishing

Might lead to a feeling that you don't make any progress
Is time consuming to play through a particular NG to get the feeling you're facing more difficult opponents (since you need to start over, find and remaster each item again)

Hard to reach top-tier of players since most have chosen to level up rather than getting deep in OG or one particular NG

edit: feel free to re-write them, I know my English grammar isn't the best - at least that's what my Scottish gf tells me :P

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 08:38 PM

The difficulty within each NG is diminishing

This is an important point so where does everyone stand on it, agree or disagree?

ruggedland

01-11-2012, 09:29 PM

This is an important point so where does everyone stand on it, agree or disagree?

Beg to differ. Maybe when it comes to GK fight, but not with all the other titans, and certainly not with Shade. Like Name, I don't see why 5RBs per GK fight in NG is more time-consuming than 5RBs per GK fight with OG, unless one like to accumulate many items and play with different gems.

How about this: "One can only fight GK once per NG. If you want to fight higher-level GK, you have to advance to next NG and lose all your gold/equipment/gems. If a player likes to experiment with different weapons, gems, and other items, it will take longer to earn them back after starting a new NG".

Also I know you touched on it in the last con for OG, but I'd put a separate bullet that simply says "Your level is capped at 81 in OG and it's impossible to level up after that since all items are fully mastered, rendering all XP gained from fight meaningless".

BLADET

01-11-2012, 09:39 PM

Beg to differ. Maybe when it comes to GK fight, but not with all the other titans...

so in your experience it's just as "easy" to fight Shade (with the cheapest items) as it is fighting titans 30 rebirths in with top gear even tho the titans have gained only minor in level?

Also I know you touched on it in the last con for OG, but I'd put a separate bullet that simply says "Your level is capped at 81 in OG and it's impossible to level up after that since all items are fully mastered, rendering all XP gained from fight meaningless".

I do agree with this, even tho it's rather a fact than an opinion. well spotted it's missing.

ruggedland

01-11-2012, 09:55 PM

so in your experience it's just as "easy" to fight Shade (with the cheapest items) as it is fighting titans 30 rebirths in with top gear even tho the titans have gained only minor in level?

Not sure I fully understand your question, but in NG Shade is harder than GK (let alone other titans) simply because you can't dodge/parry those kicks with a light weapon. Shield without element protection is also useless. Your only counter is perfect block, and hopefully you can land some perfect parries to gain stab circles to kill him quickly before too much damage is done (so you have enough health left to defeat 4 other titans in the garden). In OG I imagine all titans are of similar difficulty, and I can see the game do get harder with each RB after you've mastered everything.

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 10:03 PM

Block has "some" use without elemental resistance. You still block the physical attack, just not the elemental, and you can still score breaks.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 10:10 PM

Not sure I fully understand your question, but in NG Shade is harder than GK (let alone other titans) simply because you can't dodge/parry those kicks with a light weapon. Shield without element protection is also useless. Your only counter is perfect block, and hopefully you can land some perfect parries to gain stab circles to kill him quickly before too much damage is done (so you have enough health left to defeat 4 other titans in the garden).

so isn't this really proof that within each NG the difficulty is diminishing - edit: or at least choppy? the first opponent (Shade) - and the ones coming after him (Kabuki, Ronin and Unknown troll) - is harder than the last one (Raidriar) if you don't kill them all without damage (which still make them harder since I imagine one wont go against the GK without a healing ring - edit: of course one can to be a bit more hardcore, like not using a defence triangle; this is not the point tho; either way one will have better items facing the GK). also, the first titan in rebirth 1 is only easier 'cus your HP is full again - then again this is a fact. but if you don't have bought IAPs you will have $0, can't buy new weapons or a health ring and hence it won't take long until your HP is rather low again.

just want to point out this is no critic of NG game play - rather it's the main skill test for NG, imo.

ruggedland

01-11-2012, 10:30 PM

I thought you meant diminishing difficulty WITH each NG. Within the same NG, after you get through Saydhi, you do get full health back (like in the beginning of every RB) and also the difficulty drops since you have money to buy Nova Grinder and other items. It goes up/down in the 5RBs after that, depending on which titan/deathless you face, then it goes up a notch again with GK as the finale.

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 10:30 PM

Well the difficulty diminishes both within each NG and also in the overall sequence of them right?

ruggedland

01-11-2012, 10:45 PM

Not really. Even though for OG the difficulty goes up with each RB after you reach lvl 81, for NG the difficulty remains roughly the same with each NG as both you and enemy level up.

Enough said. Maybe one should just try both for themselves. There is no right or wrong choice here.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 10:54 PM

Hard to reach top-tier of players since most have chosen to level up rather than getting deep in OG or one particular NG

did some research on this and found that at lvl 108 I'm ranked 2,336 in GC, which is among the top 5% out of the 784,026 registered players. of these 137 are over lvl 604 which I interpret as they have hacked it since both L E A N D R O and ruggedland has confirmed lvl 604 is the cap (and Chair too, since they are fixing this in a future update?). reaching lvl 301 would put you among the best 297 players - for some reason 128 are "stuck" on lvl 300. and surely one don't need to invest any 15 hours a day to reach lvl 301? then again maybe rank 297 isn't exactly "top-tier", but it's worth thinking about. also it didn't take L E A N D R O many days to get back to lvl 604 after he was sent back to lvl ~120.

I do think that one would be one of the top-tier players after just a couple of days playing 15 hours a day...

BLADET

01-11-2012, 10:55 PM

I thought you meant diminishing difficulty WITH each NG.

I kind of figured that, but I did write within each NG. at least we solved that :)

DarthDuck

01-11-2012, 10:58 PM

"For NG the difficulty remains roughly the same with each NG as both you and enemy level up."

That's a helpful description, thank you.

"There is no right or wrong choice here."

We're just trying to lay out every possible angle of looking at the game. Since the same exact fact can be either a con or a pro depending on how you look at it or who's looking, I agree that it's not possible to be right or wrong about such things.

BLADET

01-11-2012, 11:00 PM

Maybe one should just try both for themselves.

of course one should, I've already started - even tho my lvl 108 probably wont impress you :D

There is no right or wrong choice here.

of course not, just trying to figure out what's right to write in the OP. thanks for confiming that the difficulty within each NG is diminishing.

=Silver=

01-12-2012, 02:31 AM

ruggedland

01-12-2012, 11:23 AM

iGasms

01-12-2012, 12:06 PM

I was thinking the same thing, ruggedland. Any new enemies they introduce could be at extremely high levels - depending upon how far you advanced your character.
On top of that, their attack routines will be unknown.

For this reason I started a 3rd Character:
1. SIRIS @ Level 81
2. NewGame+ @ Level 130
3. SIRIS for high GK play

TheSmugSean

01-12-2012, 12:49 PM

I'm really confused about new game + I'm level 47 and it feels wayyyy too hard. I don't know when I should go into ng+ and when I do not know when I should go into ng+ it also feels like your items should transfer over from your og

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 12:56 PM

@Sean, From Ruggedland's description, the overall difficulty of the NG sequence levels out in the long run, maintaining the same punch. In the first few NGs however, the difficulty spikes above the overall average (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Question at Rugged or for anyone else relatively deep in NG: Would I be correct to say that any given NG, regardless how how deep you are in the sequence, is hardest in the beginning? (pre-Saydhi)

Also, thank you everyone for your patience so far. I'm in some trouble with a couple overdue projects and can't tend to the OP right now. Please let the discussion play out for another week and then I will do my best to arrange all of the points into the OP with the added benefit of seeing their context in the discussion as it unfolds. Great ideas so far, but I bet we can still go deeper.

TheSmugSean

01-12-2012, 12:58 PM

Well how do I get past the first portion if the shade is so hard and I have no money to buy anything. It could just be that I am really bad at the game

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 01:23 PM

Well how do I get past the first portion if the shade is so hard and I have no money to buy anything. It could just be that I am really bad at the game
No you're not bad at the game, you're just being baited by the developers to make an IAP, which I strongly recommend that you do not do because it might make you hate the game later on and discourage you from playing in general (this guilt side effect does not happen to everyone but it does to some people.)

What you can do, assuming that you already have had the recent update, is reset to rebirth 1 from your NG slot, and then delete that slot under character slots. The next time killing Raidriar will cause another NG to appear in your slots. If you hit that green play button on your NG slot you will lock those stats, but if you beat Raidriar again then the stats in that slot will be higher.

If what I just said isn't in the FAQ I will need to add it later (probably not this week sorry), but I would prefer a more eloquent wording from someone who has actually been able to do this. As many times as I see this confirmed by others, I get nervous passing along the recommendation since the same thing corrupted my game pre-patch causing me to need to do a fresh restart.

ruggedland

01-12-2012, 01:38 PM

Question at Rugged or for anyone else relatively deep in NG: Would I be correct to say that any given NG, regardless how how deep you are in the sequence, is hardest in the beginning? (pre-Saydhi)

Generally yes. But I seem to notice the titan's speed is still moving up with level, so there could be players who find some titans are harder to deal with at least in the first RB without healing/potion.

LEANDRO

01-12-2012, 02:17 PM

the speed is a factor ... I'm on NG^71 and sometimes is hard to follow ... if you make a mistake? then forget it, they'll kill so fast that you would not even see what hit you... that's why your base stats are important but with the level 604 bug cap taking a chunck of them, not to mention to send you back to level 123, it becomes unplayable even for me, which is why I restored my backup from level 600 then played until level 602 and put the game down until they fix it.

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 02:20 PM

the speed is a factor ... I'm on NG^71 and sometimes is hard to follow ... if you make a mistake? then forget it, they'll kill so fast that you would not even see what hit you...
Thank you. This report is evidence toward attack speed being based on enemy level rather than rebirth # or NG^#.

With your best guess, would you say that the increase in attack speed is gradual or broken down into tiers. If in tiers, about how many? (That question goes to anyone.)

TheSmugSean

01-12-2012, 03:14 PM

So I just need to level more

BLADET

01-12-2012, 04:52 PM

One other thought on OG vs NG. If you plan to play IB2 6-12 months from now (why not if they keep adding new content as they promised), and if you'd like to pursue ever higher GK level or level, then NG is the only way to go (and might even save you some time in the long run). There has to be a cap on GK level in OG (4K, 5k?), and at some point it will become too time-consuming, and even if you can crack every one of his move in theory, a single mistake can kill you. In NG, there is no limit in what you can achieve... I can easily pursue GK level of 20K-30K in my current NG (NG^33) if I take time to master every item to its full, and start using Ring of Man and other goodies against GK. You'll likely see Voice's old IB1 Gk record of 50K fall as well (he did that in NG^100).

I do agree that one, at least in theory, will be able to reach higher GK lvls in NG than OG. I don't think there is a cap on GK lvl in OG for the simple fact that one can chose to play the same type of game play in NG as in OG, that is going for higher rebirths - gillybean has already chosen this path once. meaning that if you stay at NG^33 you too will reach a GK lvl that is time consuming to defeat or can kill you with one hit. sure, then you can just level up and face him with higher stats; the same is true in OG. what I can do now is to simply add ca 5k HP with a gem - and I have 10 of them - but at the price of removing an attack gem and hence losing attack points. but then I would be able to take the hit, only means the fight would take longer.

in this case OG and NG isn't that different; every NG can be seen as a possible OG, with the added profit of higher levels. the benefit of staying in OG, or going for higher rebirths in NG, is a more consistent increse in difficulty (without any choppiness, like one gets when leveling up in NG).

the best solution, imo, based on how the game works today is to introduce better/higher tier gems. this would make it possible to keep climbing in rebirth, in OG and NG, and still be able to never meet a GK that can't kill one with a hit. another solution would be to "force" players into NG - by not providing better gems - once this GK is met, but then they need to do something about the choppiness of difficulty in NG.

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 05:19 PM

I have mixed feelings about the hard gem cap. On one hand I'd like kills to have a higher and potentially unlimited hard cap so that we can keep chasing after them. But on the other it was a lot of work to get my gems near the cap and therefore achieve a state where I would have guaranteed although very slow incremental skill challenges.

I think a good compromise might be if gems from kills capped higher than ones from chests (by 150% or 200%) so that there would be more prestige in having the top gems, and one that couldn't be accomplished from mindnumbingly gaming chests with restore points.

Buckylastard

01-12-2012, 05:33 PM

I'm in NG^2 and I accidentally killed thane, so now I'm stuck in the god king stage. Return to last rebirth won't get me back. My question is: if I kill the god king and continue NG^2, will my level "freeze" when I enter NG^3? Or will it continue from when I stop NG^2?

=Silver=

01-12-2012, 05:37 PM

Yes, rugged, there must be a cap in OG. I call it convergent gameplay. But the interesting thing is that the cap is limited by your skills, and thus "floating". It's very interesting how this point of convergence constantly moves ahead... This is a real mastering!

I think that this type of convergence must be in NG too

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 05:41 PM

The ability "to enter the next NG" is currently only a privilege for OG. Killing Raidriar will put you in front of a nasty new Shade and without any elemental resistance (or anything for that matter). However, you can keep killing those 3 goons before the GK until you can afford better weapons. Losing to each one will only put you at the beginning of that particular battle, but losing to Raidriar will bring you back to a cutscene and then you fight those three monsters again.

So the good news is you have a safety net preventing you from being officially stuck on the GK. Since it's that hard, you might want to consider at least a few cycles there and get some xp.

The "form ethos" is respecting other approaches and so
then +1 for form ethos

Buckylastard

01-12-2012, 08:23 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. It wasn't that I couldn't beat the God King. Anyways, I managed to get through NG^3 now. I'm supposed to be in NG^4, but the beginning is still quite challanging. Furthermore, It seems that I can't level up anymore. My gear won't go past lvl 3... Is this a bug?

DarthDuck

01-12-2012, 08:31 PM

Your gear can't go past a third tier of mastery? Is it only with certain items and did you ever "load last rebirth" while on rebirth 1 on a NG?

Buckylastard

01-12-2012, 08:38 PM

Yeah I did load last rebirth just now because I couldn't beat the first land in one go. Now the character slot says Rebirth 2^2. I thought it should've been 1^4... Anyways, the gear that I mastered till tier 3 are still tier 3 and can't go up.

ruggedland

01-12-2012, 08:48 PM

Same thing happened to me. I think technically the fights from Shade to Saydhi are considered part of the last NG (NG^3 in your case). NG^4 won't start till you kill Saydhi and then you wake up and start RB1 NG^4. This is why you got sent back to last NG (NG^2). Anyway try go thru the sequence. You will get to NG^4 and start remaster items again.

Farfield

01-13-2012, 12:25 AM

I got a few questions here:

-The speed of the titans, how is measure ? I read that the ratio of difficult is your level divide for the titan's level i guess. So, what is the way to know how grow up the titan's speed? And therefore, the OG it's harder than NG for the cap level? the titan's ratio it's bigger, right?

Thanks for the replies c:

ThePowerFuse

01-13-2012, 05:05 AM

I agree with all of these, that's one of the biggest things I've read :p
EDIT
Also I think this page should be Stickied :)
EDIT#2
Also con not being able to sell stuff

DarthDuck

01-13-2012, 05:30 PM

EDIT#2 Also con not being able to sell stuff

If it's equally true for NG and OG then it doesn't belong on the list right? That would just a pro or con about the game itself?

Aussi3

01-13-2012, 06:33 PM

If it's equally true for NG and OG then it doesn't belong on the list right? That would just a pro or con about the game itself?

If that's true then time consuming shouldn't be on the list that's about the game itself.

BLADET

01-13-2012, 09:23 PM

ah when did this thread go sticky? :)

congrats and thanks all for the comments!

BLADET

01-14-2012, 05:45 PM

I do think that one would be one of the top-tier players after just a couple of days playing 15 hours a day...

actually just got a minor shock now when I looked at the GC Leaderboard for GK lvl. out of 220,972 registered players I'm #44 at GK lvl 2,650. L E A N D R O, the highest through the forum confimed player, is #33 at GK lvl 7,050. at #37 and #38 we find DarthDuck and RuggedLand, both at GK lvl 3,850.

surely there are some ppl at high GK lvls not using GC, but based on that information - including the knowledge that the top spots are held by ppl hacking GC and L E A N D R O being the top GK lvl player on the forum - the list goes:

#
PLAYER
GK LVL

1
L E A N D R O
7,050

5
DarthDuck
3,850

6
RuggedLand
3,850

12
BLADET
2,650

also worth to know is that L E A N D R O and RuggedLand is playing in NG while DarthDuck and myself is in OG.

so, at least to me, it's clear one wouldn't need to spend much time playing the game - at least no 15 hours a day - to become one of the "top players" regardless of whether one is playing in NG or OG.

ps. also wondering who Angkor, #34/#2 at GK lvl 5,250, and hirai, #36/#3, at GK lvl 3,950, are. if you guys are already on the forum pls let me know. if you're lurking around but not posting please make yourself known to the rest of us and join the discussions. ds.

edit: and above all there is Voice of Freedom.

DarthDuck

01-14-2012, 06:27 PM

As a NG con: "Climbing the GK ladder in NG is much more time-consuming." Fact?

BLADET

01-14-2012, 06:47 PM

As a NG con: "Climbing the GK ladder in NG is much more time-consuming." Fact?

NG taken as a whole, yes. since even if one don't master every item every NG, or even go through it in 5 rebirths, eventually one would want to master items and hence use more rebirths before facing the GK. and what would the point of NG be if not to lvl up, which one do through mastering items? in OG, even if I myself have chosen to not meet the GK that often, one can face the GK every 5th rebirth forever. there simply is no reason, related to game mechanics anyway, not to face him.

conclusion: yes, I agree.

DarthDuck

01-14-2012, 07:11 PM

I was thinking that the resistance gems are the only "significant" difference between NG and OG, so if you are dual main with the general rule not to use resistance gems unless you really need them then there's no difference. You should get the same sensation of playing through the Zen garden in NG^142 by trying to make it through in OG without setting the resistance gem.

OG Pro?: "You have the unenforced option to play without resistance gems and experience the Zen Garden with the same amount of resistance that you would find at the start of a high NG."

BLADET

01-14-2012, 10:37 PM

DarthDuck

01-14-2012, 10:52 PM

Going without a resistance gem for your first attempt(s) isn't just about training or showing off but is actually useful when considering that your special meter goes up more if you take elemental damage, even if it's just in DoT incremments. You can have your special triggered by slow poison/light/water/shock damage.

So technically you have a chance to kill them reasonably faster if you try without resistance gems.

Aussi3

01-14-2012, 11:09 PM

OG Pro?: "You have the unenforced option to play without resistance gems and experience the Zen Garden with the same amount of resistance that you would find at the start of a high NG."

It sounds like your'e grabbing at straws to get cons and pros now, I'm sorry if that sounded rude but seriously.

DarthDuck

01-14-2012, 11:21 PM

When I rewrite the OP I think it would be nice to see how people would consider the same fact to be a pro or a con. If the same thing showed up in all of them I can just divide it out but I think it's ok to see the same fact appear on 2 or 3 of the lists because it will show how people are seeing the same things differently.

grabbing at straws
I did a word search on that and it's about drowning in a river and not being able to climb onto your raft because you're just grabbing at straws—I'm in your debt for the imagery.

Aussi3

01-14-2012, 11:37 PM

1. Trying to find some way to succeed, When nothing you choose is likely to work "Jerry, grabbing at straws, searched the backup tapes from last week, looking for the missing files".
2. Trying to find reasons to feel hopeful about a bad situation "She thinks he might still be interested because he calls her now and then but I think she's grabbing at straws.

Also known as Grasping at straws :

Making wild and often times unbelievable assumptions or using far fetched ideas and possibilities to reach the desired conclusion.
The police were trying to make a conviction, but they were just grasping at straws.

voice of freedom

01-16-2012, 04:01 AM

I play NG when I need a "break" from playing OG. Which is kinda ironic...

Farfield

01-20-2012, 06:24 PM

So, i'm a little confused, the NG is easier than OG? cuz i wanna play as hard as it is possible, i am a slow player (i'm on OG 17) and i read in the forum that the difficult radio depends of the character level and the GK level divided, is that true?

DarthDuck

01-20-2012, 08:11 PM

Farfield

01-20-2012, 08:16 PM

Thanks a lot. I keep going with OG; i will master all the items and i'll try to improve my skill in fight.

DarthDuck

01-20-2012, 08:22 PM

I read in the forum that the difficult radio depends of the character level and the GK level divided, is that true?
As far as gauging the difficulty of boss fights, this is a very accurate although not perfect measure of difficulty. If you fight a level 6k Raidriar at level 600, your ratio is 10. If you fight it at level 81, your ratio is 74.

With a ratio of 10 you have 5,000 stat points to spend and with a ratio of 74 you only have 372 stat points to spend. Meanwhile both Raidriar targets have the same strength. Does that explain why higher ratios are more difficult?

Farfield

01-20-2012, 09:15 PM

Oh xD now i get it. I can't even imagine how you guys discovered that o.o a last question: How the level of the titans/bosses grows? For example Raidriar: it starts at 150 and then 250, so, it's gradual grow? Or how exactly they level up?

BLADET

01-20-2012, 09:36 PM

a last question: How the level of the titans/bosses grows? For example Raidriar: it starts at 150 and then 250, so, it's gradual grow? Or how exactly they level up?

titans level up roughly 5 lvls per rebirth. the Archivist goes up 60 lvls every time you kill Raidriar, MX-Goliath 80 lvls and Raidriar himself 100 lvls. so titan lvl depend on rebirth # (in NG too even tho rebirth # is reset every time you go to the next NG^) while boss lvl depend on GK kills.

Farfield

01-20-2012, 10:00 PM

How interesting, so much thanks about the info, it's really helpful to me.

Laughzxc

01-21-2012, 03:52 AM

Late OG is more difficult than late NG.

The first 3 or 4 NGs are harder than anything before rebirth 150, but after that NG doesn't stand a chance at being as hard as OG. This is especially true if you are efficient with climbing the GK ladder. Another thing which makes OG harder is that you have to fight increasingly harder bosses each rebirth while often in NG you often don't fight a boss at all and just throw a fight to Thane.

NG's only distinct edge in difficulty is that shield points disappear faster, but I believe that's the only factor. Also, in NG the hardest part of each cycle is the Zen garden because you don't have elemental protection, but that point is cancelled out by the fact that many of us in OG are fighting without resistance gems to keep ourselves sharp and also to insure slightly faster fights due to being able to use the special more often.

Some facts I know about NG+:
1. You need much higher magic to get to better re-cast rate. In NG^5, 100 magic points takes about 43sec to re-cast, 400 takes about 23sec (tested against Thane v3 with resistance gem, no block or dodge or parry at all). In OG 100 magic takes 19sec to recast (what I read from your research)
2. You can choose to advance in NG without mastering everything, which makes NG very hard for Zen garden regardless of NG^? you are in. E.g. I don't know how Voice can beat lvl 5000 shade with bearly character level 600+, seems impossible to me. But I agree Zen garden is always the hardest for NG+ without App Gold.
3. About shield points, you only need 1 shield point left to fully block damage. So a shield regen potion will solve the problem for light, and a parry or taken hit will allow another block for heavy.
4. I believe OG has 372 stats points (not 272). Also, if you compare NG Zen garden with OG GK (which are their hardest fight), OG has more stats points than 372 because:
- NG stats points = base stats points + 5 (attack from sword) + 8 (health from armor) = base stats + 13
- OG stats points = 372 + 2(1 atk and 1 health when level 1) + 245(weapon) + 25(helm) + 100(armor) + 1650+(11 attack gems) + benefits from (80% health heal every 20sec) = 2394+ stats points + benefits
- In addition, in NG, health is used for first 3 fights without healing (you can always get a full health potion after 3rd titan)
- Block is not discussed here because assume weapon is dual for OG
So you can see ratio is not so relevant here because OG has 2394 stats points with level 81 (gives you a high ratio). In NG you probably will have that many stats points with level 400+ (I have 990 stats points at level 172).
If you compare GK ratio between NG and OG, you can only add about 650 stats points for NG (IB + Armor + Helm, they are easy to get), because all round gem slots probably need to be magic gems (if you are lucky enough to get them at all). Also you normally heal probably every 40 sec (not sure how long in high NGs). More on that, about 1/13 stats points need to be in magic for heal to be effective at all (health-attack-magic ratio of 2-10-1)

With respect, I understand OG can get very difficult at high rebirth, but I think high NG is no less (unless you master everything, which will surely take you out of the game before you advance to higher NGs)
Let me know if any of above doesn't make sense. I will be very interested to know.

DarthDuck

01-21-2012, 04:43 AM

Overarching question: Is late NG as hard as late OG?

- I say no, but will welcome and document any further counterarguments in the OP (which is still very behind I know).

1. You need much higher magic to get to better re-cast rate. In NG^5, 100 magic points takes about 43sec to re-cast, 400 takes about 23sec (tested against Thane v3 with resistance gem, no block or dodge or parry at all). In OG 100 magic takes 19sec to recast (what I read from your research)

- In OG you need 250 MP to cure yourself to full, which means you are wasting that extra 150 MP in terms of extra MP regen you are not getting. So if anything this fact makes NG even easier because you have a higher cap for magic regen, which no doubt reflects the extra value of cycling through your magic at almost the same rate in OG. In OG I only use 20.3k HP but in late NG you can easily get 50k HP. Also, I assume that if I was using your same timing methodology (you are comparing two different testing environments) I think that your 23 would equal my 19. But even if I'm wrong and OG has slightly faster magic regen cycles (which I think is unlikely), taking an extra 4 seconds to cure an extra 30k HP is more than worth it.

The same concept is used with elixirs—they have more value later on, as reflected in their price, since they are curing a larger amount. In OG you can cure yourself to full with exactly 250MP and all your stats in health. I suspect that you need at least 400MP to cure yourself to full in your NG condition and so needing to meet a higher cap doesn't matter if you need to use 2 good magic gems anyway.

2. I don't know how Voice can beat lvl 5000 shade with bearly character level 600+, seems impossible to me.

- Then you would say the same about about rebirth 1,000 where all common enemies are 5,000+.

3. About shield points, you only need 1 shield point left to fully block damage. So a shield regen potion will solve the problem for light, and a parry or taken hit will allow another block for heavy.

- I've never thought of that but it does make light weapons more of a realistic option for boss-fighting in NG. In OG shield regen doesn't really matter since you have a lot of shield points and you can't even feel the 1 point/2.5 seconds.

4. I believe OG has 372 stats points (not 272).

- Yes it is 372 thank you.

OG has more stats points than 372 because:
- NG stats points = base stats points + 5 (attack from sword) + 8 (health from armor) = base stats + 13
- OG stats points = 372 + 2(1 atk and 1 health when level 1) + 245(weapon) + 25(helm) + 100(armor) + 1650+(11 attack gems) + benefits from (80% health heal every 20sec) = 2394+ stats points + benefits

- By your analysis, the OG Shade is permanently harder once your total number of stat points in NG goes above 2,381.

- In addition, in NG, health is used for first 3 fights without healing (you can always get a full health potion after 3rd titan)

- Yes, this is what validates the Zen garden as the hardest part of the NG cycle. To simulate this in OG you would need the discipline not to use cure when fighting the Shade. The Kabuki doesn't count since coming from IB1 that's an easy kill (defanged wood jester), but NG has a way of leaving you at the Ronin's feet with almost nothing, making the Ronin arguably harder than the shade. This epic trio is why I have repeated stated a fantasy of a permanent minigame being stuck in too high of a NG and then only buying grinder weapons and maybe a Shield Halo and staying there. Getting past the Ronin can be a lot of fun. The problem is that it takes a lot of skill to put yourself in an impossible NG situation because if you pad your stats too much you won't be able to change the difficulty enough. I admire Voice for being so late when hitting the 604 bug (practically NG^100) because you can tell he was really trying to make the game harder.

So you can see ratio is not so relevant here because OG has 2394 stats points with level 81 (gives you a high ratio).

- You can't use that same analysis for the ratios because the ratios are for the GK fight and not the Shade fight. The GK fight is the easiest point of NG and the hardest point of OG. So that considering, having the GK fight as a ratio counterbalances any OG advantages.

More on that, about 1/13 stats points need to be in magic for heal to be effective at all (health-attack-magic ratio of 2-10-1)

- But you need that extra MP anyway to cure your higher HP amount.

tl;dr:

In NG^5, 100 magic points takes about 43sec to re-cast, 400 takes about 23sec... (I have 990 stats points at level 172)... I think high NG is no less.

What you're saying is why early NG is harder than early OG. NG^5 is early NG and in a sense so is anything before NG^30. So if you only had a few months to play the game and then you had to delete it, and you wanted the biggest challenge, then NG would probably be your best option.

But it's a fact that once your average total stats are well beyond that of anything possible in OG, then that NG and every NG after that is necessarily going to have easier GK fights. And that's all anyone is talking about when we say ratios.

Laughzxc

01-21-2012, 03:13 PM

I agree with your analysis Darth. The only thing I don't quite like is to talk about ratios to compare NG and OG difficulty. I agree ratios is useful to compare OG progress (as useful as GK lvl or rebirth no.). But when you compare ratios between NG and OG, it doesn't make sense at all.

E.g. ratio for Voice is 10000/600 = around 17. In OG, ratio 17 is about 1350 GK level. I beat that GK in OG myself, with no difficulty at all. I believe OG GK kill only become hard after around 2500 (can't be sure though, I am only up to 2050, and still very easy). I believe Voice's 10000 GK kill is much much much harder than 1350 GK kill in OG (you cant even compare them). Plus, I think with SS setup in Zen garden, beat lvl 5000 shade is at least 10 times harder than lvl 10000 GK (at level 600).

DarthDuck

01-21-2012, 03:59 PM

@Niiloc, noted and thank you.

I agree with your analysis Darth. The only thing I don't quite like is to talk about ratios to compare NG and OG difficulty. I agree ratios is useful to compare OG progress (as useful as GK lvl or rebirth no.). But when you compare ratios between NG and OG, it doesn't make sense at all.

E.g. ratio for Voice is 10000/600 = around 17. In OG, ratio 17 is about 1350 GK level. I beat that GK in OG myself, with no difficulty at all. I believe OG GK kill only become hard after around 2500 (can't be sure though, I am only up to 2050, and still very easy). I believe Voice's 10000 GK kill is much much much harder than 1350 GK kill in OG (you cant even compare them). Plus, I think with SS setup in Zen garden, beat lvl 5000 shade is at least 10 times harder than lvl 10000 GK (at level 600).

When I finally sort all this out and fix up the OP I will articulate your concerns about the ratios. And yes I would agree with you and extend it to saying that the GK's in OG aren't particularly challenging until you hit 3,050 (38 ratio). I did not invent this ratio analysis but I think you can at least understand the spirit of it as a rough guideline.

Using the ratios is less helpful at lower levels (since the shiny gems and likely better gear inflate that ratio greatly). But that inflation is reduced to almost nothing when discussing higher profile targets. Consider killing the 7050 GK in both NG and OG, the comparative 87 and 12 (for levels 81 and 604 respectively) are going to be more fair indicator of the scale of difficulty.

But the fact that the ratios are least accurate on the lower levels isn't that significant because those lower levels are easy whether you are in OG or NG. What people are most curious about are the extremely high profile fights, in which case the ratios are a useful tool.

"Plus, I think with SS setup in Zen garden, beating lvl 5000 shade is at least 10 times harder than lvl 10000 GK (at level 600)."

We already have consensus that the first three monsters in NG are the hardest part of the cycle. But this points back to the same issue as to why the ratios are kind of fair and how the inflation is in fact neutralized at higher levels. You at least have the option to collect the best gear and gems in NG, in which case the GK is a joke compared to the shade. This is also true based on the general rule I've noticed that normal titans are proportionately stronger for their level than bosses. That's why I'm looking forward to to rebirth 1000 etc.

Disclaimer: All of my responses to you have been rushed and it concerns me a bit that you agree with my analysis because I said a lot. So please don't take anything at face value. I'm sure there are plenty of holes in my counter-analysis so please find them if you have the time. I'm really busy right now as you can probably tell by the messy OP, but will clean things up as soon as I have the chance. Thanks for the patience on that.

NiiLoC

01-21-2012, 04:00 PM

a very thoughtful and well-organized thread (per usual), darth!

Not that it matters, but i agree with all of the stated pros and cons of NG...

I would add one more con for NG: At the end of each NG, you HAVE to sell all of your hard-earned Gems (or lose them for absolutely nothing)...this isn't necessarily a problem for those who race through NGs (i.e. 5-20 RBs)...but after spending 70-100+ RBs in an NG, it is always a depressing time when you have to sell all of your badass elemental / attack / magic gems... I always get slightly teary-eyed after wrecking the GK :(

Heh heh...in all seriousness, another outstanding thread...

nwcs

01-21-2012, 07:16 PM

I have to admit, I like the OG more than the NG. I feel like I'm learning a lot about how to play the game. My parries have definitely gotten better! Lol

Laughzxc

01-21-2012, 08:52 PM

Disclaimer: All of my responses to you have been rushed and it concerns me a bit that you agree with my analysis because I said a lot. So please don't take anything at face value. I'm sure there are plenty of holes in my counter-analysis so please find them if you have the time. I'm really busy right now as you can probably tell by the messy OP, but will clean things up as soon as I have the chance. Thanks for the patience on that.

There might be a couple things not 100% accurate in your analysis, but same thing with mine, nothing major though. I agree with the main argument that, after a certain point, OG will be harder than NG because you cannot overcome the difficulty by accumulating more stats. NG is only difficult if you rush through it.

I didn't really think rebirth 1000 is possible. At that point, probably all stats will go attack, and you have to be 100% concentrated for 5min for each fight. Who knows, some of you guys in this forum might be able to do it. :)

DarthDuck

01-21-2012, 09:10 PM

I didn't really think rebirth 1000 is possible. At that point, probably all stats will go attack, and you have to be 100% concentrated for 5min for each fight.
I doubt rebirth 1000 fights would take that long. Unless there is some future inflection point we're not aware of, the fights get shorter and shorter, especially with bosses. At higher rebirths they attack with higher ranges of attack speeds which means that much more happens in a short amount of time giving you more breaks/minute. You can also shorten fights a bit by fighting without elemental resistance because one or two hits may be enough to fill your special bar without killing you, especially if it's damage over time (shock/water/poison/light).

And hopefully rebirth 1,000 is possible. It was also speculated according to certain calculations "that we would not be able to get anywhere near rebirth 300" and that was proven wrong. Assuming rebirth 1,000 is possible, I wouldn't expect the common fights to last over 2 minutes or the Raidriar fights to last over 5 minutes.

relevant thread: attack speed tiers (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/878187-Attack-Speed-Tiers)

UiK

01-26-2012, 03:11 PM

Hi guys,

Hope someone can help me.

I've maxed OG to Level 81 and have started playing NG. I lost all my money and weapons but maintained my skill points. After I defeated Raidriar, and "freed" the worker of secrets, the storyline restarted and I once again lost all my weapons and money. Is this normal? I mean, how am I supposed to buy the big weapons if my gold is reset every time I defeat Raidriar? Or am I doing something wrong?

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 03:17 PM

You still have all items and gold on your OG slot. NG maintains its difficulty by continually stealing your money and items after each GK kill. OG will eventually offer you a steady increase in difficulty with harder targets while you yourself do not get stronger, but it does allow you to keep everything you've accumulated money, gem, and item- wise.

UiK

01-26-2012, 03:26 PM

Ok but if I keep losing my gold in NG, how do I Purchase the hidden weapons?

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 04:13 PM

Even if you had an unlimited amount of money at the start of each NG, you still have to discover locked items with chests, drops, and wheels. For locked items, you only have a buy price for the sake of also having a sell price in case you get duplicates. They will be re-locked with each NG.

gr00veh0lmes

01-26-2012, 04:23 PM

Yeah, and starting the NG+ with only the HP you had left from the GK fight too. Plus elemental shade in first fight. It sucks man. This means I gotta cycle down, lose to thane3 all the time jus to get my health up from base level (all previous points went into hit points). Plus it now costs 1M gold to rearrange stats, how am I gonna do that in NG when the gold drops are lame. I'm really starting to dislike NG now.

UiK

01-26-2012, 04:45 PM

BLADET

01-26-2012, 05:17 PM

I'm sorry for being a pain but I didn't completely understand that.. I've honestly tried to figure this out for so many weeks now that im about to give up.

So from my understanding, in NG after defeating GK, you are rebirthed to master the items a second time. You lose your gold and weapons. I just don't understand it's possible to unlock any items or let alone buy them if we keep having our gold taken away. It took me many rebirths in OG to be able to unlock all items and buy them in OG cause my gold was still there at the next rebirth. Am I missing something here?

you just do it again... and again... and again, hence Infinity (Blade). you'll have to start over, collect money again, find the items again, remaster them again, and eventually kill the God King again. and then start it all over again. there are ppl on this forum that are NG^50+, meaning they have done just that over 50 times...

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 05:25 PM

you just do it again... and again... and again, hence Infinity (Blade). you'll have to start over, collect money again, find the items again, remaster them again, and eventually kill the God King again. and then start it all over again. there are ppl on this forum that are NG^50+, meaning they have done just that over 50 times...
Before you run away from the game screaming, if you want steady progression determined by relative increases in enemy level, then you can try and see how far you can get in OG, where your progress is measured by your ability to acclimate to increasingly difficult targets rather than your ability to demonstrate that you are able to make it through the mastery process an endless number of times. Also, Voice of Freedom is on NG 101, so there probably wouldn't be anything stopping him from getting to NG^1000. Getting to rebirth 1000 however, is a feat that we're not sure anyone can reach but we have a few people going for it. The highest is currently Bladet who is about at rebirth 300.

UiK

01-26-2012, 06:55 PM

DarthDuck, thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts. I can defeat pretty much any enemy I face without any problems. But I really want to unlock and use the heavy weapons that are only available in NG. They are worth a lot of gold, and since NG takes away your gold at every rebirth, how do you buy these items?

Also, not sure if this is correct or not. Although I have defeated the GK twice in NG, when I go to Charactor Slots, it says I am on NG with Lvl 89 and Rebirth1^3. A, Is it supposed to stay on RB1? And what's the difference between it staying on RB1 and NG2? And if they are different, how do I enter NG^2 and RB2 in NG mode?

One more thing.. It says n the manual that after I defeat Raidriar and complete the storyline, I'll get an option to enter NG. Is this IB1 only? Cause I dont get that in IB2.

Once again I'm very sorry for all the questions. You can probably see how confused I am. I don't wanna stop playing this game but i need to know how I can master ALL the weapons incl the unlocked ones. IB1 was so much easier!

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 07:42 PM

But I really want to unlock and use the heavy weapons that are only available in NG. They are worth a lot of gold, and since NG takes away your gold at every rebirth, how do you buy these items?
There's only one heavy weapon locked in NG, the Anarchax. It's expensive but you would be able to afford it easily if you picked a particular NG and pursued it. I guess you could make IAPs but it seems absurd and pointless to be able to start out with an axe that has 1500 attack at the beginning of each NG.

Although I have defeated the GK twice in NG, when I go to Charactor Slots, it says I am on NG with Lvl 89 and Rebirth 1^3.
The first number is the rebirth # and the second number is the NG^#. If you are on rebirth 5 of NG 50 it would say 5^50.

Is it supposed to stay on RB1?
It will say rebirth 1 each time you start a new NG.

And what's the difference between it staying on RB1 and NG2? And if they are different, how do I enter NG^2.
After killing the GK in NG^1 you go to 1^2. Then after killing the GK in NG^2 you go to 1^3. After killing the GK in NG^3 you go to 1^4. If you stayed at that for a while you would be in 150^4 like gillybean did, in which he enjoyed using the Anarchax as a main weapon, but if you do that then there'd be no guarantee that you would find lasting replayability in the game, especially since you would just be throwing the same fight to Thane every time rather than fight a new and harder boss.

One more thing.. It says in the manual that after I defeat Raidriar and complete the storyline, I'll get an option to enter NG. Is this IB1 only? Cause I dont get that in IB2.
That only happens once, and is only true if you have the most recent update of the game from the app store. But it sounds like you already did that. Once you unlock that NG slot and start playing on it, they remain completely different save slots. Killing Raidriar then on in OG will create higher leveled tiers of bosses but it won't affect NG at all or create new NG slots. IB1 is distinctly different as you get a popup window asking you if you really want to go to NG, and it will make you do a double-confirmation regardless of which boss you kill. Also in IB1, NGs are started from killing Zero Mech which is a different boss. In IB1 you also can choose when you want to go on to the next NG but in IB2, currently you have no control once you are in NG. Killing Raidriar will push you into the next one whether you like it or not, which is why people dwelling in NGs keep losing the Thane on purpose. Some people are able to entertain themselves despite this clear compromise to gameplay, and I'm afraid you would have to do the same to binge kill with the Anarchax.

UiK

01-26-2012, 08:25 PM

I think I understand now.. So losing to Thane in NG starts a new RB and keeps all your gold and items, right?

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 09:03 PM

If you beat Thane after opening the chest* you end up committed to the GK stage. If you lose to Raidriar, there you go to the beginning of that level and can fight the golem/guard/butcher again for a shot at more xp/money. In IB2, killing Raidriar is what causes a different NG to start, in which case yes you lose all gold/items/gems. But since killing V2 Thane commits you to the GK stage, people avoid it so they can stay and get more gold/xp from the castle.

I think I understand now.. So losing to Thane in NG starts a new RB and keeps all your gold and items, right?
If you lose to Thane then yes you start a new rebirth, and all that happens is that the monsters go up 5 levels just like they would in OG. But you don't get to fight any bosses, so there is a high chance that you will burn out on the game if you pursue any given NG at length.

ruggedland

01-26-2012, 11:41 PM

If you beat version 2 Thane you end up committed to the GK stage.

You can beat Thane 2 but lose to Thane 3 and still get to start another RB in the same NG. If you don't want to lose to anyone in each RB but still want to remain in the same NG to farm gold or level up more, you can do what many others are doing: leave one of the bosses alive (e.g., Archievist), then instead of Thane 2 you get to defeat a regular Titan like Dark Knight and get a nice chunk of change from the treasure chest.

The key to farm gold in NG is from key drops (no pun intended). Once you have a 20% gold+ gem and a few guaranteed keys you can keep buying keys and open chests. I was able to make over 25M money in one NG just by doing that.

Aussi3

01-26-2012, 11:47 PM

You can beat Thane 2 but lose to Thane 3 and still get to start another RB in the same NG. If you don't want to lose to anyone in each RB but still want to remain in the same NG to farm gold or level up more, you can do what many others are doing: leave one of the bosses alive (e.g., Archievist), then instead of Thane 2 you get to defeat a regular Titan like Dark Knight and get a nice chunk of change from the treasure chest.

The key to farm gold in NG is from key drops (no pun intended). Once you have a 20% gold+ gem and a few guaranteed keys you can keep buying keys and open chests. I was able to make over 25M money in one NG just by doing that.

Yeah, That's what I have been doing except I leave the demon and get the large chest at archivist and Mx instead, and then finish my run at the top killing someone like dark knight or something :)

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 11:48 PM

Once you have a 20% gold+ gem and a few guaranteed keys you can keep buying keys and open chests. I was able to make over 25M money in one NG just by doing that.

Would you say that the buying-keys-early thing is not relevant in NG?

Main reasons that come to mind for me are that you don't open that many large chests anyway in a NG cycle and that keys cost more and the the total from the incremental amounts that you save from buying keys early are less.

DarthDuck

01-26-2012, 11:53 PM

You can beat Thane 2 but lose to Thane 3 and still get to start another RB in the same NG.
Also, this is an important clarification because you get to open an extra large chest this way by panning left.

It's never worth getting into semantics, but in a way v3 Thane is v2 Thane since it's on the same rebirth.

Aussi3

01-27-2012, 12:36 AM

Would you say that the buying-keys-early thing is not relevant in NG?

Main reasons that come to mind for me are that you don't open that many large chests anyway in a NG cycle and that keys cost more and the the total from the incremental amounts that you save from buying keys early are less.

I always buy large keys in NG as soon as I can, You still get massive profit from keys in NG

DarthDuck

01-27-2012, 12:42 AM

I meant how in OG if you keep 5/5 large keys (and 4/5 medium & small keys) then you guarantee profits even though it means that you collect money very slowly in the beginning (while you are saving up to max your keys). That delayed gratification is mainly why keeping keys at 4/5 or 5/5 doesn't strike me as a good NG strategy.

BLADET

01-28-2012, 05:38 AM

Getting to rebirth 1000 however, is a feat that we're not sure anyone can reach but we have a few people going for it. The highest is currently Bladet who is about at rebirth 300.

already in rebirth 290-300 a single hit from a titan using elemental damage is around 8-9k HP. so with maxed out HP in OG one can take 3 hits and that's it. forget about a combo, you're dead right away. to win yourself roughly 3 breaks are needed so to reach rebirth 1000 would be no small feat, and as you say might not even be possible. (I guess one could eventually start using elemental resistance gems again. and also sacrifice an attack gem for another 5k HP.)

if you do chose the OG path I recommend you look up Silver's Survival Guide right away. the only way one will get far (rebirth >500) in OG is to learn every move of every opponent.

ps. you in the paragraph above does not refer to Darth - who knows this better than anyone - but to you, the reader :P ds.

=Silver=

01-28-2012, 06:37 AM

Aussi3

01-28-2012, 06:48 AM

I try to switch them every fight in OG so I can remember to use them for the bosses lol

BLADET

01-28-2012, 07:10 AM

Why you don't use elemental gems?

As for me, I'm just lazy to switch them every fight, I do it once per 5 BL (per one GK). But I'm on ab 130 BL yet... Anyway don't plan to use them against regular monsters either :D

'cus elemental damage loads super faster. so one can either chose to lose less HP with each hit (using elemental resistance gems) or taking more damage with each hit but getting closer to a super (without elemental resistance gems). since I feel confident I know 99% of all moves and hence don't expect to take more than one or two hits when my muscle memory lets me down, I gain more by taking a huge chunk of my HP when this happens and getting my super charged faster; it's leads to shorter and faster fights.

=Silver=

01-28-2012, 07:23 AM

Wow, the whole strategy...
I see then. When it'll come the time to use super I'll remind this

vat0s

02-06-2012, 01:44 PM

I might spoil even tho i m not far in the game !!!

Ok sorry for my silly questions, i really really like this games for all the possibilities but i dont understand ANYTHING about the story, i killed all the bosses, got locked "forever" in that room with the GK by the worker and the game just starts again and i just have do the same storyline but with same level etc or i just missed something ?

And iv got this other problem with gems im buying the cheapest weapons to gain as much xp as possible but i just RUIN myself by removing the gems each time to put them on another weapon, am i doing this wrong or there are no other choices ?

Thanks and sorry if it was mentioned somewhere else i tried to read as much as i could :)

DarthDuck

02-06-2012, 05:19 PM

And the game just starts again and i just have do the same storyline but with same level etc or i just missed something?

Well NG takes on the RPG concept of exchanging large blocks of time for advances in character level. Your character levels up along with the monsters (minus the complication of the current level 604 bug) and you can do that forever.

In OG, it's pretty easy until you get at least to rebirth 200, which will also take a lot of time, but you will certainly find resistance as you go on and past rebirth 300 since your character's stats will reach an absolute maximum, which means that casual play will not be endless and will meet thresholds. However, the true limit with more diligent and informed play is still in question. As far as the structure of the game, it's not really a repetition of a storyline as much as a constant adjustment offering you new challenges, each of which will be more difficult to overcome.

And I've got this other problem with gems im buying the cheapest weapons to gain as much xp as possible but i just RUIN myself by removing the gems each time to put them on another weapon, am i doing this wrong or there are no other choices?

This will get less and less painful in OG since you end up with more money than you can spend. In NG however, gems aren't as important. And since when you reach the higher NGs you will be able to go through them in as few as 5 rebirths, you won't be seeing any impressive (and therefore expensive) gems.

vat0s

02-14-2012, 02:03 PM

ok thanks a lot, its a shame, iv played a LOT considering the few free time i have to spend, im lvl59, rebirth 29 and the game is getting really really boring as it is way too easy, if i have to wait rebirth 200 to have fun i will probably be dead of boredom before, too bad i really enjoyed this game

DarthDuck

02-14-2012, 02:37 PM

Rebirth 120+ should be enough to get some excitement. I know that jumping back to rebirth 75 from an old save that it was intolerably boring and the attack speed was too slow. But then again you should be able to crank through a ton of rebirths in almost no time if you are goal-oriented, just remember that it's kind of a waste unless you're also promoting your GK level.

And don't forget that all that time you spent was getting the game moving. Once you have momentum you will fly through rebirths. And if the game is temporarily too easy, there are lots of options for you in the name of good training: you can go without a resistance gem, try to fight with magic, or master your most difficult fighting style (probably heavy).

I was very bored doing the initial gold farming trick looping through rebirth 1, but what made it interesting for me was to pretend that I wasn't allowed to get hit (so that I'd be prepared for the real challenges later on).

Another advantage of the game being "too easy" for you right now is that you don't have to go nuts trying to find the best gems. Those will come in time but in the meanwhile you can promote yourself, and not waste time doing things like reopening the same chest all day to get a good attack gem.

Flak

02-20-2012, 04:56 PM

This thread, along with a few others mentioned in the OP have been posted on the community page as an Epic Gamer feature. http://epicgames.com/community/

Direct Link: http://epicgames.com/community/2012/02/need-help-learning-to-play-infinity-blade-ii/

Copying this to the Epic Gamers forum. Thank you for the great content folks!