Shotgun Suggested Fix(s) from a 6x Onyx Gnasher Player (video)

[NicodemusX0]

I made the following thread a while back, and didn't get much response --->
http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/870728-Shotgun-Suggested-Fix%28s%29-from-a-5x-Onyx-Player


I now have added a video that shows the two fixes I'd like to see... and hopefully shows why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOHwx1f5lPM

I don't have time to make the small unimportant video.
But there are two shotgun fixes I think the devs need to address.


Pellet Spread after Jump
TU6 Update (Clientside Updating after death)


Pellet Spread after Jump/Roll
Check this out. Do you know if you roll and take a Hard Aim shot immediately and I mean immediately, your spread on your shot is ridiculously huge. SO huge that even someone point blank will easily eat a percentage of your point blank shot and not be killed?

Try this on your own. Go into a private match on Blood Drive... Back yourself onto a wall and put the player dead center in front of you (GIB RANGE).
ROLL BACKWARDS(WALL SHOULD BLOCK YOU)- YOU MAY HAVE TO SWITCH to ALTERNATE, not sure if you will grab the wall... And watch the spread change.
If you roll and shoot immediately when landing.... you will essentially shoot a shot only large enough to connect fully on a mauler or something. A standard character will only take 1,2, or 3 max pellets.


You can also try this without another player... just roll backwards and shoot, look at how large the spread is.

This is moderately important, because it is one of those small details that leads to WTF moments when you point blank someone and they don't die.


The Shotgun/Collateral/Update
Also... Please fix the "UPDATE" again and again... I am stopped because I am killed by someone I have already killed. I just don't understand... you introduce a new weapon (Sawed Off) to issue the point blank damage to kill guys... but the mechanics (Client Side-on Dedicated Servers) causes major problems with this. Trust I don't play with the Sawed Off. But I like to beat the guy with it to the point of attack. It is upsetting when I successfully Gib the player just to be updated a moment later.

(Verified update as players state my name appears in the kill feed first. (I'll get the first blood ribbon...)

People get chainsawed after gibbing a guy/ Sawed off after gibbing/ gibbed after gibbing. It just needs to be polished. Please on dedicated servers... the server should decide... not the client.
I would love to see a trial of Server Side shotgun Hit detection on Dedicated.... I know we are going in circles now... but the dedicated are here to be used for their fairness. Why should I be punished because a player didn't get my packet of pellets in time. The timing of the shotgun is faster in GOW3 so we need a bit more consistency in the in between shot kills.

There are a few other suggestions if you are wondering how to implement this clientside.
If the shot must be shown... have the weapon misfire.
On your own host, you can gib after dying/ or going down.... It seems if the game sees you holding the trigger while an downed, or gib event took place... it may still let you shoot... well into your downed state or death. If it exists on the host.... no wonder it exists online.

[OzzysGnasher]

You have 36,000 Gnasher kills?

Oh and totally agree with these changes BTW.

[xTZAx]

This thread is excleent, I fully agree. I'm sick of getting updated and having players sponge bullets.

[PreGy]

In the second video you posted, at 0:26, it is YOU the one who killed the guy after being dead, even if you screen shows otherwise; it's funny because you say servers should decide, and yet in the video you complain about that guy killed you showing the frame you killed him, but forgetting that what you see is not what's really happening. Just saying...

[Playmaker03]

You have 36,000 Gnasher kills?

Oh and totally agree with these changes BTW.

Watch his Youtube...I can totally believe it! lol.

[NicodemusX0]

PreGy- I have had alot of experience with this

1st. Why are medals are awarded according to the Kill Feed. So if you Gib a Player first in the game you get "First Blood", if you update a player you do not?

2nd. Why on the Kill Feed shown to other players are kills listed in an order of who hit the server first. If you play with someone you can ask them. Shouldn't the Server be the deciding voice?

3rd. Why did EPIC made change after the Beta to stop showing "YOU" your kill feed once you die. "YOU" now always appear on the bottom, I think an attempt to hide the truth.

4th. You can just tell. When you play as much as I do.... you can tell by the shot order who should typically get the kill. Specifically when you shoot

[SandNeven]

Nice man. Totally agree.

[RaZzty_returns]

not sure about rolling then shooting. but the gears 1 style gnasher superman (shooting while rolling and getting the gib making it look like you flew through his body) still works. i can dive shoot to get the gib almost all the time , it gets me out of tight situations.

[Tehduckeggs]

Quality post. Listen to this man. He knows his ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brendy Boy]

Didn't know about the roll spread. Going to check this out in a private game. Thanks for the info.

[Andy157]

Thats a ridiculous amount of gnasher kills, and I agree with OP

[FeRRATE]

nico, that video is nothing new and the only thing i agree with you on is how aggrevating it is to be killed by someone who is already blown in half, but on his screen you must realize, it looked quite different. Also it was clear you had "host" (at minimum an advantageous connection relative to other players) 1) ace wall bouncing btw but still incredible you didn't get downed on hammerburst hoffman clown 2) mr.chainsaw was VEERRY close to you, within yo-yo range yet you were able to get not 1 but 2 shots off aaand of course 3) the sawed-off you rest your case on, clearly you got the first shot but his shot was fired some time close to yours. Not sure the window of time allowed for those draw kills, want to say it's not greater than 30 milliseconds ON A GOOD connection, but whose to know for any of ur oppenents relative to you, also anyone have more info no this? doubt it...

-Honestly, you think you are that good or they are THAT terrible? There are enough of us that can perform the same movements and possess teh same skill that at THIS level of fine tuning/complaining, I feel, is all lag related and unrealistic to circumvent. I'm just as aggrevated as anyone who point blanks with a gnasher, unloads entire clips into people, or completely jumps back out of the DBS shot to only be blasted 15 ft away on my screen but seriously I don't know if it's the tecnology available or the cheap bastardly servers EPIC chooses but this appears to be as good as it gets for gears my friend, see you on the time relative field.

[Killuminatii]

not sure about rolling then shooting. but the gears 1 style gnasher superman (shooting while rolling and getting the gib making it look like you flew through his body) still works. i can dive shoot to get the gib almost all the time , it gets me out of tight situations.

That gears 1 style superman isn't effective at all anymore.

[Gearz_God]

I agree update is crazy and getting worse. Polish sound good. You shouldn't be rewarded for having slow crappy internet. ISP's sell plans claiming best ping times for gaming but it's pointless if your on a server with laggy players you just get the old update slap to the face *UPDATE* ouch...

[NFI]

The wide spread after a jump and roll is an intended design that isn't going to be changed. Epic has stated a number if times over the years they hate what they call a "blam gib", when a player rolls into a battle to close the gap the gib someone right after the roll. It's even been described as a "cheesy dick way to play". That wide spread isn't a mistake.

So now on a roll you have the insanely large spread. That, and stopping power were largely introduced to stop this method of playing, as they found it to be cheap.

It doesn't need fixed, It is an intended characteristic.

[NicodemusX0]

The wide spread after a jump and roll is an intended design that isn't going to be changed. Epic has stated a number if times over the years they hate what they call a "blam gib", when a player rolls into a battle to close the gap the gib someone right after the roll. It's even been described as a "cheesy dick way to play". That wide spread isn't a mistake.

So now on a roll you have the insanely large spread. That, and stopping power were largely introduced to stop this method of playing, as they found it to be cheap.

It doesn't need fixed, It is an intended characteristic.

Interesting... I can dig it.... so now the reticule should show that.... so players don't appear to sponge a accurate gnasher shot. (It was this way in gow2 as well)

[NFI]

Interesting... I can dig it.... so now the reticule should show that.... so players don't appear to sponge a accurate gnasher shot. (It was this way in gow2 as well)

Yea I don't disagree with you about having visual bloom show it. However I just wanted to point out that it was something they sought to do is all.

[HE4DSWILLROLL]

The wide spread after a jump and roll is an intended design that isn't going to be changed. Epic has stated a number if times over the years they hate what they call a "blam gib", when a player rolls into a battle to close the gap the gib someone right after the roll. It's even been described as a "cheesy dick way to play". That wide spread isn't a mistake.

So now on a roll you have the insanely large spread. That, and stopping power were largely introduced to stop this method of playing, as they found it to be cheap.

It doesn't need fixed, It is an intended characteristic.

It does need to be fixed as it never should have been implemented in the first place.

Epic keeps showing that they are simply bad at their own game. They wanted AR battles with limited movement, what they got was a game that requires a huge amount of skill in movement and aiming at the same time.

When they strait up tell us that the SOS was implemented for noobs, when they come out and say that the game we love playing was never supposed to be, when they force stopping power on us along with everything else they have done to make the game more of a sit behind cover and hide type of game you get the feeling everyone at Epic must be bad at their own game.

[NicodemusX0]

nico, that video is nothing new and the only thing i agree with you on is how aggrevating it is to be killed by someone who is already blown in half, but on his screen you must realize, it looked quite different. Also it was clear you had "host" (at minimum an advantageous connection relative to other players) 1) ace wall bouncing btw but still incredible you didn't get downed on hammerburst hoffman clown 2) mr.chainsaw was VEERRY close to you, within yo-yo range yet you were able to get not 1 but 2 shots off aaand of course 3) the sawed-off you rest your case on, clearly you got the first shot but his shot was fired some time close to yours. Not sure the window of time allowed for those draw kills, want to say it's not greater than 30 milliseconds ON A GOOD connection, but whose to know for any of ur oppenents relative to you, also anyone have more info no this? doubt it...

-Honestly, you think you are that good or they are THAT terrible? There are enough of us that can perform the same movements and possess teh same skill that at THIS level of fine tuning/complaining, I feel, is all lag related and unrealistic to circumvent. I'm just as aggrevated as anyone who point blanks with a gnasher, unloads entire clips into people, or completely jumps back out of the DBS shot to only be blasted 15 ft away on my screen but seriously I don't know if it's the tecnology available or the cheap bastardly servers EPIC chooses but this appears to be as good as it gets for gears my friend, see you on the time relative field.

I do have good internet. Line A Grade Quality pipe....
Here is our disagreement. You believe that the time for draw kills allotted is 30milliseconds. 30/1000 of a second.(Very Very short timing my friend) At this level of reaction I believe it would be nearly impossible to land a "draw kill"

I believe it is 300/1000 * 3 tenths of a second.

When I record it... I'll post it... You can down someone from a distance and sometimes see how late their shot comes out. Definitely longer than 30/1000's

And you do realize that the server still shows the name on top of who hit the kill feed first? And still assigns awards based on this? (first blood, nemesis, if you get off first) (nothing if your updating someone).
IMO there is a little too much trading. I got that dude first... as you see from my clips.... I often go in for the risky shots. I can almost tell now who got who first.
It has become a game to me asking people to verify the kill feed.

i.e.
"I know I got that dude first" - you did
"oh I don't know about that one" - yeah he got you...

Kinda crazy how the killfeed seems to do me justice.

[Comrade John]

"updating" is a feature that makes the game FAIR.

You may be closer to the server or have a better internet connection than the person you killed. On their screen, they would have killed you first, but your kill was loaded first on the server, but their kill still happened. How would you like to go back to shooting someone first, only to have them eat your shot, and then kill you?

That would happen 50% of the time when you would usually update.

Stop complaining about something that helps you. It makes you seem very silly.

[White Plague]

Hell no to SSHD. Thankfully, EPIC made it clear that there're zero chances of this happening. Not only it would be advantageous to people with better ping but it'd cause bullet lag even for those whose ping is descent but not perfect. I don't want Gears of War 2 back.

BTW if it looks like you get chainsawed after you gibbed your opponent, on his screen it looks like you gibbed him after he started chainsawing you.

[Blumkinsalad]

The Updating is essential to a fair playing field, or else it just comes down to connection and not skill.
If I shoot you on my screen before you kill me on my screen you should die and so should I if you hit me on your screen, no if and's or but's about it.
It should not come down to some arbitrary time stamp that the server receives.
All that would cause is for people who were a second or two behind to never kill the person who is sending updates to the server faster than the other, resulting in someone seemingly sponging shots and killing you because of a "Timestamp".

If anything I believe that updating needs to be more lenient than it already is.
It should be that when you shoot someone who is right in front of you on your screen they should die.
If the result is both players shot one another on his/her own screen regardless of were you "think" they shot you from, both players should die.

Im happy when I see 2 people kill each other within the same gunfight as a result of updating, because who am I to judge who really shot first when we are talking about a great distance between the two players in regards to internet infrastructure.

[Holy Gear]

hmmm what the guy ontop of me said. seems reasonable. ill go with that insted lol. but hit dicection needs to be fixed first.

[FeRRATE]

I believe it is 300/1000 * 3 tenths of a second.

When I record it... I'll post it... You can down someone from a distance and sometimes see how late their shot comes out. Definitely longer than 30/1000's

IMO there is a little too much trading. I got that dude first...

0.3 seconds is major lag and would be detectable simply by shooting walls like we use to in gow2...or the s*** i get on the weekends lol. but lag to/from the servers is much different than the 'updating' i was referring to; yes, i EASILY agree timescales of >0.5s are achieved and makes your video look almost legit LOL, but the time difference between each pulled trigger must land within 0.03s (or something close to that) on a "near zero" lag between the player and the update. So, AT BEST that "kill feed" is 0.03s lagged ALWAYS is what i'm trying to conclude.

Having writing this i thought of another "issue" that is might also be inherent with the weapons and makes our situation MORE complex; the different speeds each weapon updates. Let's compare two weapons, i think everyone agree's a sawed-off to be the fastest (damn near instantaneous) and the slowest i would pick <drum roll> the boomshot; we've all been able to take 5 steps only to be blown up by that past explosion, or, made a direct hit and watch our opponents walk/run away, OR at the brink of being killed been able to send a boomshot out of the weapon, see it, yet NOTHING occurs. Placement of the gnasher is difficult since the damage seems to be so inconsistent (like the spread you pointed out) but we can agree it is slower than the sawed-off. Therefore, these delayed draws are even MORE exagerrated when it is sawed-off vs. gnasher.

and i agree 100%, on the video of your perspective, you blasted that clown well into oblivion first; no one will disagree except trolls. But i think what i am saying and what other people appear to be saying is you gotta think of that clown on the other side and what ping he lives in. I want perfection to, this is the only game i play and do it with a crackhead like itch when i don't so don't think i'm not agreeing anything you are saying is incorrect, just....unfixable <siiiggggghhhs> it still beats playing chess LOL

[NicodemusX0]

"updating" is a feature that makes the game FAIR.

You may be closer to the server or have a better internet connection than the person you killed. On their screen, they would have killed you first, but your kill was loaded first on the server, but their kill still happened. How would you like to go back to shooting someone first, only to have them eat your shot, and then kill you?

That would happen 50% of the time when you would usually update.

Stop complaining about something that helps you. It makes you seem very silly.

Closer to server, or had a better internet connection?
How about maybe just possibly I shot first?

This definitely doesn't work in my favor? I am certain. To be specific, from what my teammates tell me.... my name almost always appears first. I hypothesize 90% of the time.

[NicodemusX0]

0.3 seconds is major lag and would be detectable simply by shooting walls like we use to in gow2...or the s*** i get on the weekends lol. but lag to/from the servers is much different than the 'updating' i was referring to; yes, i EASILY agree timescales of >0.5s are achieved and makes your video look almost legit LOL, but the time difference between each pulled trigger must land within 0.03s (or something close to that) on a "near zero" lag between the player and the update. So, AT BEST that "kill feed" is 0.03s lagged ALWAYS is what i'm trying to conclude.

and i agree 100%, on the video of your perspective, you blasted that clown well into oblivion first; no one will disagree except trolls. But i think what i am saying and what other people appear to be saying is you gotta think of that clown on the other side and what ping he lives in. I want perfection to, this is the only game i play and do it with a crackhead like itch when i don't so don't think i'm not agreeing anything you are saying is incorrect, just....unfixable <siiiggggghhhs> it still beats playing chess LOL

I'm not following, the point I am making is that the server can decipher who hit first. The window of 3/10, or 5/10 of a second allowed to currently update a player is too long.
The amount should be reduced to around .100 ms or .50ms The amount of updating is ridiculous.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

Do me a favor and see the variance in your results. and let me know your opinion.
When you run this test, imagine shooting first. Then try shooting a bit after you see the green. I'm saying a 300ms difference is too much, I feel it needs to be reduced.

I am saying if your are more than 50 milliseconds, or 100 milliseconds behind a shot, you should be dead.

[NicodemusX0]

Hell no to SSHD. Thankfully, EPIC made it clear that there're zero chances of this happening. Not only it would be advantageous to people with better ping but it'd cause bullet lag even for those whose ping is descent but not perfect. I don't want Gears of War 2 back.

BTW if it looks like you get chainsawed after you gibbed your opponent, on his screen it looks like you gibbed him after he started chainsawing you.

True, but the server has an opinion. And it will typically show in the kill feed whether someone got chainsawed or gibbed first.

[White Plague]

I'm not following the point I am making is that the server can decifer who hit first. The window of 3/10, or 5/10 of a second allowed to currently update a player is too long.
The amount should be reduced to around .100 ms or .50ms The amount of updating is ridiculous.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

Do me a favor and see the variance in your results. and let me know your opinion.
When you run this test, imagine shooting first. Then try shooting a bit after you see the green. I'm saying a 300ms difference is too much, I feel it needs to be reduced.

I am saying if your are more than 50 milliseconds, or 100 milliseconds behind a shot, you should be dead.
I think the current ping limit is 150ms. But it may increase during the match due to poor jitter. They cannot set up the maximal time between mutual kills, only the ping limit to connect to servers (It's Client Side Hit Detection). 150ms is fine. Higher numbers will cause problem in finding matches.

[Milky Pirate]

I'd support anything that alleviates some of the shotgun frustrations.

[White Plague]

True, but the server has an opinion. And it will typically show in the kill feed whether someone got chainsawed or gibbed first.
How do you imagine that? You gib someone, then he resurrects from pieces and gibs you?
It's impossible without bullet lag.

[NicodemusX0]

How do you imagine that? You gib someone, then he resurrects from pieces and gibs you?
It's impossible without bullet lag.

Simultaneous shots are literally impossible. There is no such thing as at the same time. The window is definitely in the tenths of a second. So the question I am rather asking is to what extent.
The argument is that it should be 50ms.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

What is your opinion. All things being equal. At what point should a player kill another vs be updated?

[I CRAZE l]

Simultaneous shots are literally impossible. There is no such thing as at the same time. The window is definitely in the tenths of a second. So the question I am rather asking is to what extent.
The argument is that it should be 50ms.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

What is your opinion. All things being equal. At what point should a player kill another vs be updated?

Shots at the same time is possible..

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

[NFI]

It does need to be fixed as it never should have been implemented in the first place.

Epic keeps showing that they are simply bad at their own game. They wanted AR battles with limited movement, what they got was a game that requires a huge amount of skill in movement and aiming at the same time.

When they strait up tell us that the SOS was implemented for noobs, when they come out and say that the game we love playing was never supposed to be, when they force stopping power on us along with everything else they have done to make the game more of a sit behind cover and hide type of game you get the feeling everyone at Epic must be bad at their own game.

Look I never said my view on it, Or that i agree or not, so there is no reason to be all fired up at me.. Iwas merely pointing out why it was done. Regardless, it isn't about what they "force" on us, the fact of the matter is its their game and ultimately they can implement whatever they want. They have an idea of what they want out of their game, regardless of their skill level, and they can change it however they see fit, no matter what change occurs omeone isn't going to like it. No ones game preference or idea on how things work is more correct than anyone else's.

It's been like this since gears 2, this isn't something new to gears 3, the superman has not been effective since gears 1. The only opinion that supersedes everyone's is that if epic since it is their creation. Like it or not.

I'm not saying what I think about the variable spread, just why it's there. It's not "sponging" or a broken issue in regards to hit detection, it functions as intended. So it doesn't need fixed, per say.

What you posted is your opinion. You don't like it, that's your opinion on it and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you are wrong, because no one is right or wrong. However wanting something changed and saying it needs fixed are not one and the same.

Like I said, I just wanted the op to know is it's not an issue or faulty feature, it's an intended feature.

[NicodemusX0]

Shots at the same time is possible..

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

Ok mr smarty pants send me two screenshots of you landing the same reaction time between 200-250ms at different times in the next 5 mins, and I'll paypal you $5.00

[o A R T S Y o]

I am a little concerned about how you have obtained 36,000 kills with the gnasher. Do you have no life, sit in private matches all day, or are you priorities in life extremely out of order? I hope you understand just how many kills that is with one gun, I mean we aren't just talking about getting the Onyx for that gun once or even twice, but six times?? Seriously!?

[I CRAZE l]

Just because you have 6x Onyx Medals doesn't make you a Gnasher Master. I have three.

Honestly, the gnasher is probably the most balanced of every other Gears, and the only thing that still makes it seem like it isn't, is lag.

In Gears 1, the Gnasher was really OP. So much in fact that if you were host + gnasher = God.

In Gears 2, IMO active Bonus wwas too strong. Gnasher was inconsistent, and spread was too wide. Even in circumstances where it did work normal, it was still. Victim of lag. Plus everybody in a shotgun fest..

Gears 3 has almost perfected the shotgun in the game. Its not so strong that it gib s everything from miles away, and its not so weak that other guvd beat it easily. It still suffers from lag issues when not on a dedicated. Spread is a bit wide (go to checkout, shoot at a wall from a few metres away, the apread is wider than your char) But for the most part, it's probably the best out of all three games.

ALL in all, I don't think the Gnasher, nor any other weapon is OP.

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

[White Plague]

Simultaneous shots are literally impossible. There is no such thing as at the same time. So the question I am rather asking is to what extent.
The argument is that it should be 50ms.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

What is your opinion. All things being equal. At what point should a player kill another vs be updated?
50ms is not an option. It'd cause major problems finding matches, especially in Europe.
I would just leave 150ms as ping limit.

Regarding my previous question, how do you understand changing this on CSHD?
For example, player A shoots player B. 60 ms later player B shoots player A. As the things are now both get killed.
How do you understand it with 50 ms limit yet CSHD?

Is it like this?:
1. Player A shoots player B and gibs him.
2. 60 ms later player B shoots player A. Player B's ping is 100 ms, so on his screen he gibs player A.
3. Player B gets an update that he shot player A too late.
4. On player B's screen player A resurrects from pieces and gibs player B.

This looks like BS. The way to avoid it is to use SSHD. But it has sh*tloads of other even more serious problems. Moreover, EPIC made a statement that SSHD won't come back.

[InfiniteGrim]

It would be nice if they could copy and paste the old Gears 1 gnasher. Maybe I'm completly wrong but to me the Gears 3 gnasher feels 10x more powerful. What I mean about this is in Gears 1 most shotgunning took place much closer but now in Gears 3 you can shoot someone 2-3 shots from a considerable distance and still down them. Sometimes it would take 2-3 shots close up in Gears 1 to kill someone. It also feels like gib'ing people is easier in gears 3. Not sure how to explain it but it seems like close up no matter how well aimed the shot is you are dead in one shot, making shotgun battles non existent. Its more or less who gets the first shot, not who has better aim.

[NicodemusX0]

50ms is not an option. It'd cause major problems finding matches, especially in Europe.
I would just leave 150ms as ping limit.

Regarding my previous question, how do you understand changing this on CSHD?
For example, player A shoots player B. 60 ms later player B shoots player A. As the things are now both get killed.
How do you understand it with 50 ms limit yet CSHD?

Is it like this?:
1. Player A shoots player B and gibs him.
2. 60 ms later player B shoots player A. Player B's ping is 100 ms, so on his screen he gibs player A.
3. Player B gets an update that he shot player A too late.
4. On player B's screen player A resurrects from pieces and gibs player B.

This looks like BS. The way to avoid it is to use SSHD. But it has sh*tloads of other even more serious problems. Moreover, EPIC made a statement that SSHD won't come back.

Ok now were talking. But again your synopsis adds more confusion to the basics.

TO BE HONEST. This is already in place. I'm not suggesting a ping limit change. But rather to the timing shot validation. (Even with 150 ping your shots hit the server at a specific time)

All things being equal two 150ping players should have no more than 50ms to update the other.

When you are lagging out of a game note it is impossible to kill a player. (EVENT WITH CSHD)
"AND if you reconnect" I would assume your shots are not-valid serverside.

Essentially this means that if your shot hits the server after a certain period, it is not valid..because the timestamp is too late.
I would hypothesize the window needs to be tweaked. On a packet level, they have timestamps.... routers...computers...and the game knows who really died first. Dedicated Servers are capable and should limit their allowance.

[White Plague]

I've never lagged that hard so I say 150ms ping limit to connect to servers (as it is now) and 170ms cap of lagging. The latter is to make shots of all players with unstable ping non-valid.

[NicodemusX0]

I am a little concerned about how you have obtained 36,000 kills with the gnasher. Do you have no life, sit in private matches all day, or are you priorities in life extremely out of order? I hope you understand just how many kills that is with one gun, I mean we aren't just talking about getting the Onyx for that gun once or even twice, but six times?? Seriously!?

I leave home around 2 days a week for contract work, and make enough to support my bills and most desires. I travel the world with my wife, when we desire.... I could do something more productive with my time yes... but my life is pretty good. I do feel stagnant in business which could use more attention... but regardless, my sentiment is keeping my time to do whatever I want in life..... feels good.

Not that this is my scenario... but let's hypothesize you had no monetary needs.. what would you spend your time doing? I'm interested?

[White Plague]

All things being equal two 150ping players should have no more than 50ms to update the other.

I don't quite get this sentence. Two 150ms players can't update each other in 50ms. They need 150ms for information to go to the server and back. Two 150ms players will update each other in exactly 150 milliseconds.

[NicodemusX0]

I've never lagged that hard so I say 150ms ping limit to connect to servers (as it is now) and 170ms cap of lagging. The latter is to make shots of all players with unstable ping non-valid.
Wow, so in your testing of http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/
you found 170 seconds of update time "acceptable"?

[NicodemusX0]

I don't quite get this sentence. Two 150ms players can't update each other in 50ms. They need 150ms for information to go to the server and back. Two 150ms players will update each other in exactly 150 milliseconds.
All Things Being Equal= Assuming no other differences.

First 150ms is a cap on connection. Not a hard set period set by the server. So it could be lower.

Second If we both simultaneously shoot, We both have our perspective pings. Assuming in this case they are both 150ms(all things being equal). The information hits the server at nearly the same time.

Let's take a example of what may really happen. Both players have 150MS PING. One player shoots , The other shoots 100ms later than the other. In the current scenario they both die.
My suggestion is that since player (a) timestamp hit the server at 150MS, and player (b) hit at 250MS the 150ms player (a) should be rewarded the kill, and 250ms players shot not valid.

[NFI]

I am a little concerned about how you have obtained 36,000 kills with the gnasher. Do you have no life, sit in private matches all day, or are you priorities in life extremely out of order? I hope you understand just how many kills that is with one gun, I mean we aren't just talking about getting the Onyx for that gun once or even twice, but six times?? Seriously!?



Who cares how he spends his time? Some play sports, some play instruments, some play games, what difference does it make?

[KakashiiX2]

Who cares how he spends his time? Some play sports, some play instruments, some play games, what difference does it make?

cuz NFI..

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/71/haters.jpg

[White Plague]

All Things Being Equal= Assuming no other differences.

First 150ms is a cap on connection. Not a hard set period set by the server. So it could be lower.

Second If we both simultaneously shoot, We both have our perspective pings. Assuming in this case they are both 150ms(all things being equal). The information hits the server at nearly the same time.

Let's take a example of what may really happen. Both players have 150MS PING. One player shoots , The other shoots 100ms later than the other. In the current scenario they both die.
My suggestion is that since player (a) timestamp hit the server at 150MS, and player (b) hit at 250MS the 150ms player (a) should be rewarded the kill, and 250ms players shot not valid.
Now I get it. And it's exactly what I said above about resurrecting players. It would be weird. Player (b) will see player (a) dead for 50ms in that case. (If he shoots 51ms later, then he'll see player (a) dead for 99ms). 50-100ms are noticeable enough to look weird. (Don't mix up the reaction time and the minimal noticeable time interval). Updating time should be at least as big as the ping limit. SSHD is not an option, lower ping limit would make it better but may cause connection problems. So it's a compromise here.

[NicodemusX0]

Now I get it. And it's exactly what I said above about resurrecting players. It would be weird. Player (b) will see player (a) dead for 50ms in that case. (If he shoots 51ms later, then he'll see player (a) dead for 99ms). 50-100ms are noticeable enough to look weird. (Don't mix up the reaction time and the minimal noticeable time interval). Updating time should be at least as big as the ping limit. SSHD is not an option, lower ping limit would make it better but may cause connection problems. So it's a compromise here.

No the animation can stay the same... it's the effect of the bullets. I even once thought bout your gun flipping out of your hand and doing a few twirls before mis-firing. Indicating you died but almost shot. And it's not SSHD... It's CSHD w ServerSide Validation


Not in games like Gears that use client/server approach. A game that solely relies on CSHD will allow crappy connections to own the other players. That's why Gears does CSHD validation so players can't cheat the game by using network speed hacks.

[Not War]

Wow, thanks a ton for saying that about the rolling, I thought I was just unlucky or something, I once shot a guy THREE TIMES point blanked (2 roll shots) and he didn't go down, and the 3rd shot was 50% missed, but either way, he still lived.

[NicodemusX0]

Wow, thanks a ton for saying that about the rolling, I thought I was just unlucky or something, I once shot a guy THREE TIMES point blanked (2 roll shots) and he didn't go down, and the 3rd shot was 50% missed, but either way, he still lived.

I've almost tabled this request because I was told it is intended. Just feel the bloom should show if it exists.

[DarkRider23]

Am I the only one that thinks not doing full damage after a roll is actually acceptable? Your character just came out of a roll FFS. There's no way it should be perfectly accurate.

[KakashiiX2]

I've almost tabled this request because I was told it is intended. Just feel the bloom should show if it exists.

I dunno if what's being debated about in this thread have to do with character animation delays and restrictions to the shotgun like the "no popshot" unless hard aim is held for the entire course of the character animation when the character is fully standing.

In Gears 1 it was ok to pop shot since no delays were placed
In Gears 2, pop shot damage was less or equal to hard aim.
In Gears 3 it's almost not visible that is such the occurring since the character animations for weapon switches, mounting in cover, and out of cover are very seamless. I didn't think it was still "viewable" that there was such a restriction yet with the shotgun.

But if it's in there, it's most likely yet again to stop the Gnasher from being so godly. In Gears PC is almost impossible to dodge out of a roadie run gnasher or a Gnasher roll due to the accuracy with mice, but on the console there's a very high chance you can evade both things.

[InfiniteGrim]

Am I the only one that thinks not doing full damage after a roll is actually acceptable? Your character just came out of a roll FFS. There's no way it should be perfectly accurate.

I think enough advantages have been given to campers and long range weapons already and what you mention should not be ever included.

[NicodemusX0]

Am I the only one that thinks not doing full damage after a roll is actually acceptable? Your character just came out of a roll FFS. There's no way it should be perfectly accurate.

This was the least of my request... and if it is intentional to make the Gnasher less deadly when being rolled at... I'm fine with that.... but the majority of the players will not realize this effect is there, and when they run up to a player from behind.... jump... land... and shoot.... and then the player turns around and gnashers him..... they will rage and we may see threads about the gnasher being inconsistent.

[dopefromie]

ya wtf is with this update ****..people kill me like full seconds after ive killed them..ill kill dude while they are running and they still update me sometimes..its ****in stupid

[the_suicide_fox]

I hate updating, but sadly the alternative is ghost shots. Both are very annoying, but updating is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'd rather have my shots hit where I see and trade kills sometimes than shoot someone only to have my bullet not register.

As for the rolling pellet spread thing, never knew that but it seems fair given the roll>shotgun technique. I still manage to pull it off too, so I guess it just requires you to be more accurate which is balanced.

Nic, you should come over to some Execution for a minute. KOTH is great, but TBH I liked Annex/KOTH better in Gears 2. Pretty sick that you got 6 times gnasher onyx LOL I know it was your thing in 2 also.

[NicodemusX0]

2. Pretty sick that you got 6 times gnasher onyx LOL I know it was your thing in 2 also.
Shh Major Fail... but I realized I only have 5x Onyx Shotgun, and 6x Onyx Assists

[Major_Warrior]

The only thing I hate about the Gnasher is its inconsistency. The fact that I can't Shotgun Snipe someone while everyone else can do that to me is irritating beyond belief.

The fact that I'm within Gib range when I fire twice with ACTIVES and they take it like a boss and they turn around and one shot me with a non-active shot and I'm gone. Keep in mind that 90% of the time I aim with my shot gun and the moment that I just described happened once... no wait... twice in two different games and I'm aiming and all of my pellets hit because they are FILLING UP MY SIGHTS yet they just go:

"Huh? What was that?" *Looks around* "Oh look! An enemy!" *Fires once* *Swims in opponents blood with smiles*

Please fix this problem. Just earlier today I was shooting at someone with 5 rounds of the Gnasher (4 of which were actives) and he took them like a boss while I go down from his Non-Actives. I've hit people at the same distance (even further) and they go down in 2-3 hits yet this person took 5 shots like a boss. Eventually, it took most of our team to get this dude because he was eating our guns and living.

We killed his team and so it was just him versus five of us with 9 respawns... by the time we killed him we had 3 respawns left and he was just camping the cave sniper spawn on Sandbar. He just wasn't dying like he was supposed to.

Anyway, Gnasher does need a fix on its inconsistency. Although I don't see a problem shooting after jumping because I always seem to Gib players right after I jump.