Just tell me WHY?

[iDarkly]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players? Other successful multiplayer games don't just go around handing out weapons for noobs. Other games expect new players to learn the game to gradually get better, but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off. That is not the smart Gears game I love. Plus there is the issue of players who actually know what they are doing that abuse these overpowered weapons. Just tell me why.

[SAVAGE THERONELITE]

i SEE YOUR POINT MAN BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE VARIANTS AND DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS TOWARDS MAP TYPES

[Explode already]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players? Other successful multiplayer games don't just go around handing out weapons for noobs. Other games expect new players to learn the game to gradually get better, but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off. That is not the smart Gears game I love. Plus there is the issue of players who actually know what they are doing that abuse these overpowered weapons. Just tell me why.
Youre right, noob tubes in call of duty never existed, they were a bad dream, aa12 in army of 2, rocket launchers in halo, sawed off in resident evil 5, your right. Never in other games do they do that!

[Sharp D]

I think more people need to play alpha. I used to use the SOS until I played alpha and was forced to use the gnasher. Now I hate using the SOS. I think people just need to be forced to the gnasher for a weekend to show them the gnasher is better then the SOS. But really the SOS doesn't bother me that much.

[iDarkly]

Youre right, noob tubes in call of duty never existed, they were a bad dream, aa12 in army of 2, rocket launchers in halo, sawed off in resident evil 5, your right. Never in other games do they do that!

You only have 2 noob tubes to use and you are penalized by not being able to have other attachments, Rocket launchers in Halo are a POWER WEAPON, and as for Army of Two and RE5... I don't they they are very relevant considering they never really took off.

[Schwarzeis]

>Just tell me WHY?

Alright, I'll play

WHY?

[Wings]

Every game has the casual weapon and a more advanced version of it.

Take Halo for example, you have your automatic AR, and then your DMR. (I don't play Halo)

Point is, when you get more skilled (or put in the effort to become) you switch to the better weapon.

Anywho if you're complaining that you are dying too much to the Sawed-off then it's quite clear you have not become skilled enough to use the Gnasher, and so you should probably go back to using the sawed off until you get better. ;)

[elmikeo777]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players? Other successful multiplayer games don't just go around handing out weapons for noobs. Other games expect new players to learn the game to gradually get better, but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off. That is not the smart Gears game I love. Plus there is the issue of players who actually know what they are doing that abuse these overpowered weapons. Just tell me why.

I feel your pain brother... Till the majority of gears' casual players leave and its left to us regular/gears players to keep the community alive, come join us in alpha... its not the best by any means but at least the SO/retro bull isnt as bad

[iDarkly]

It's not that I can't kill the sawed-off players. It's easy, they suck. Epic had a great formula, but they messed it up. Could be so much better that it make me sad. Oh and Wings I don't play Halo much, but I don't think that comparison works.

[iDarkly]

I feel your pain brother... Till the majority of gears' casual players leave and its left to us regular/gears players to keep the community alive, come join us in alpha... its not the best by any means but at least the SO/retro bull isnt as bad

Yeah, I do. Alpha need a bit of work too though. (Gears 1 weapons only).

[Wings]

Oh and Wings I don't play Halo much, but I don't think that comparison works.

Whether the comparison works is irrelevant, I was just trying to appease your need for wanting to compare 2 completely different games. Whether another game "hands out noob guns" (as you put it) or not is irrelevant. If you like the game, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. Then there's the 3rd scenario, if you don't like the game but feel there's issues with it, give EPIC constructive criticism AND THINK carefully about what you're going to say, lest you start an uprising. (The 3rd option as beautiful as it sounds is impossible to achieve by everyone, for obvious reasons)

[macwookie]

but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off.

...and the boomshot, and the gnasher, and the chainsaw, and the frags. What else is a single kill weapon? Oh yeah, the digger...and the flame nades, etc, etc.

Just how do you abuse a weapon that was designed by the devs to do exactally what it does?

[Atomebendr]

F*cking rhetorical question.

[iDarkly]

...and the boomshot, and the gnasher, and the chainsaw, and the frags. What else is a single kill weapon? Oh yeah, the digger...and the flame nades, etc, etc.

Just how do you abuse a weapon that was designed by the devs to do exactally what it does?

Those are power weapons... not loadout weapons.

[iDarkly]

...and the boomshot, and the gnasher, and the chainsaw, and the frags. What else is a single kill weapon? Oh yeah, the digger...and the flame nades, etc, etc.

Just how do you abuse a weapon that was designed by the devs to do exactally what it does?

Those are power weapons... power weapons are supposed to be powerful.

[iTheMightyBobby]

1 thing to say... COD... if you're saying that isn't noob friendly then idk what games you think are noob friendly.

[iDarkly]

Whether the comparison works is irrelevant, I was just trying to appease your need for wanting to compare 2 completely different games. Whether another game "hands out noob guns" (as you put it) or not is irrelevant. If you like the game, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. Then there's the 3rd scenario, if you don't like the game but feel there's issues with it, give EPIC constructive criticism AND THINK carefully about what you're going to say, lest you start an uprising. (The 3rd option as beautiful as it sounds is impossible to achieve by everyone, for obvious reasons)

Ok Wings... calm down. I was giving constructive criticism... I'll put it a little more clearly just for you! Here is some constructive criticism: The sawed off and retro should be removed.

[iDarkly]

1 thing to say... COD... if you're saying that isn't noob friendly then idk what games you think are noob friendly.

Sure, it is noob friendly. I just think that Gears 3 went a little overboard on trying to appease the casuals.

[Andrewsafb71]

The guns are fair, i think it's wrong that a gnasher user has to use more skill to engage someone with a SOS but it's just the strength of the weapon. I gripe at the power of the retro lancer but, like the other rifles, it's good at punishing people are who caught out of position. Stop complaining and enjoy the game for what it is, the Gears team has done a great job

[Manfood]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players?

insta-money

[iDarkly]

insta-money
Yup, considered that.

[SA T0WNS FINEST]

Maybe at release, but now no

[xxoppsyoudeadxx]

Sos doesnt bother me just watch and have fun retro then down or if ur good enough shotgun their heads off

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

[macwookie]

The sawed off and retro should be removed.

I'll agree that the retro is annoying but the SO is darn near useless. Half the time I zip around a corner, hear the SO, then see someone's tail end as they run away.

Every time I get killed by a retro it's because I keep thinking I can gnash/lancer em down before they put me down instead of looking for cover. That's my own darn fault. Outside gib range the retro overpowers the gnasher, no question.

Before they address anything else I think they need to fix the damn weapon inconsistency. Maybe a region filter or allowing us to search locally p2p... Off server (last week) were some of the better games I've had, on host and off host, mostly cause I got set up against people within 1,000 mile radius.

[patriot715]

They added them so they could mitigate used game sales. They wanted to prevent re-selling the game after playing it. It was supposed to open the game up to more players and keep them playing the game.

I think it worked! It's not like the game is ranked 8th on XBL population only 2 months after release...

Oh wait.

[Wings]

Ok Wings... calm down. I was giving constructive criticism... I'll put it a little more clearly just for you! Here is some constructive criticism: The sawed off and retro should be removed.

That's not constructive criticism, if you would like to learn the proper way to address your concern I will happily give you a lesson on manners and socializing. Just let me know :)

[bbsmth933]

You want to know why. Cause players (including Epic themselves) suck with the gnasher and didn't enjoy the game as much because of that. The sawed-off basically took the most satsifying aspect of the game, the the shotgun gib and made it take no skill, no practice, no thought what so ever, so basically anyone could walk up to someone and blow them to bits. This way those who weren't good with the gnasher (trust me there's a lot of them) could enjoy a game that is primarily based around CQC and shotguns. Little did they know the satisfaction in a shotgun gib was in the effort it took, the practice it took the experience it took to beat another skilled player by gibbing them with the gnasher. As long as 10 year old CoD fanboys can pickup the game for the first time ever and get that experience of a Gears gib, it's all good right?

[iDarkly]

That's not constructive criticism, if you would like to learn the proper way to address your concern I will happily give you a lesson on manners and socializing. Just let me know :)

You're a little creampuff.

[nik1994]

Ive been running into so many level 100s with sawed offs and its more than annoying.some ppl are just plain trash but epic wanted those ppl to still by there game.epic is the most greedy company out there.really what game sells 4 dollar weapon skins.EPiC FAiL

[DJDiksonMouf]

I think many of you are underestimating the steeper learning curve that Gears has compared to other series. Anyone can join a MW3 game and get at least a couple of kills. If you are in a Gears match and you don't know what you're doing, you are not going to get a single kill. The focus on efficient movement makes this series much harder to casually pick up. With the popularity of the first two games, asking newcomers to the series to pick up a gnasher and be able to compete is unrealistic. The s/o allows players to get the feel of the game and keep their confidence up until they move to a gnasher.

Anyone who has gotten their wings with the s/o is missing the beauty of this game. Double kills, clutches, supers, these are things s/o users will never experience. We should almost feel bad enough for them to not beat them endlessly.

tldr; s/o eases players into the series

[OoPpEe]

Ive been running into so many level 100s with sawed offs and its more than annoying.some ppl are just plain trash but epic wanted those ppl to still by there game.epic is the most greedy company out there.really what game sells 4 dollar weapon skins.EPiC FAiL

Sadly Epic doesn't decide what the price is for that. It's sadly Microsoft that does.

As for the OP:
I think easily the best reason - so it's actually a different game. I actually enjoy the game much more. Been playing since Gears 1 launch. The game now has more variety and as a result you have to play more smart. Sawed-Off is indeed deadly however is the easiest damn gun in the game to counter - the Snub Pistol can beat it easily. The Retro - use your rifle at medium-long ranges - easy win. Every game needs to add more as otherwise - why make a sequel. What most people seem to of been wanting is Gears of War 3 to be:
Gears 3 Campaign
with Gears 2 multi-player on dedicated servers

*yawn* after years of that game - I needed them to do something fresh. The Retro and Sawed-Off did just that, even if I don't use them much at all.

[twizz]

If you die so much from those weapons, that you make a thread about it, then your not as good as you thought you were.

[Gerald Mouse]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players? Other successful multiplayer games don't just go around handing out weapons for noobs. Other games expect new players to learn the game to gradually get better, but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off. That is not the smart Gears game I love. Plus there is the issue of players who actually know what they are doing that abuse these overpowered weapons. Just tell me why.

The solution, is to give us a server browser.

If people only want lancers and gnashers, then they can go to your room.

[Gnash]

Money. That's it.

[jenny_pwnz]

Sawed off and retro lancer are noob weapons? Last I checked the sawed off is still nerfed with no range whatsoever. You literally have to be in your opponents face. If you miss it's over. As with the gnasher if you miss you have more in your chamber and plus it has range. I know the gnasher takes more skill to use, but the sawed off I dont consider a noob weapon at all. It's got too much against it.

The retro, no range, tiny clip and a mother of a recoil. As what ooppee said above, these guns are in the game for variety. I for one, glad I have more of an arsenal to choose from.

[Dementhis]

Can the complaints about the issues for this game just... Stop...? Can we seriously stop whining about whats in the game and focus more on the glitches that need to be patched? The sawed off and retro are in the game, they will not be going anywhere, us gears vets of course we're not happy about it, but just accept it. This complaining, is so old, and irritating, just play the damn game, and move on.

[yeche]

They added the new weapons into the game because variety is the spice of death. Simple as that.

[oldson59]

Sadly Epic doesn't decide what the price is for that. It's sadly Microsoft that does.

As for the OP:
I think easily the best reason - so it's actually a different game. I actually enjoy the game much more. Been playing since Gears 1 launch. The game now has more variety and as a result you have to play more smart. Sawed-Off is indeed deadly however is the easiest damn gun in the game to counter - the Snub Pistol can beat it easily. The Retro - use your rifle at medium-long ranges - easy win. Every game needs to add more as otherwise - why make a sequel. What most people seem to of been wanting is Gears of War 3 to be:
Gears 3 Campaign
with Gears 2 multi-player on dedicated servers

*yawn* after years of that game - I needed them to do something fresh. The Retro and Sawed-Off did just that, even if I don't use them much at all.

Nicely put OoPpEe old son, nicely put.:)

[ben1bob]

Just how do you abuse a weapon that was designed by the devs to do exactally what it does?

so if the devs invented a weapon that killed the entire other team when you press RT, and it was available in your loadout, then that'd be cool beans because "that was designed by the devs to do exactly what it does"??

you don't get it. you seem to be saying that whatever is designed to be in a game is fine, no matter what it does. illogical!

[ben1bob]

Sadly Epic doesn't decide what the price is for that. It's sadly Microsoft that does.

i'd like some proof please.

becasue, last time i checked, Microsoft publish a lot of games and this doesn't happen in all of their games.

imho, i think Epic were the ones after the money as much as MS. my speculation is as good as yours without any proof...

[eldestsucubus]

Youre right, noob tubes in call of duty never existed, they were a bad dream, aa12 in army of 2, rocket launchers in halo, sawed off in resident evil 5, your right. Never in other games do they do that!

noob tube only had 2 shots. and needed to be aimed
never played AO2
rocket launchers in halo were 100% pickup
never played RE5

[macwookie]

so if the devs invented a weapon that killed the entire other team when you press RT, and it was available in your loadout, then that'd be cool beans because "that was designed by the devs to do exactly what it does"??

That's a little extreme, and that's not what they did. They designed weapons for players who were unfamiliar with the game. They needed to make the game more marketable. It's the same reason that the 'previously on gears' cinematic was at the start. For new players. Why do we need new players? Because Gears 1 was hard to play. Because Gears 2 was hard to play. The learning curve on those games is pretty steep and if you're just starting it's not going to be fun until you figure the mechanics out.

I keep hearing how they made Gears 3 'noob friendly.' I disagree. Compare it to COD. Anyone familiar with a FPS shooter like Halo could pick up COD and start getting kills in MP. You give that same person a copy of Gears and toss em into MP and they are going to get eaten alive. Giblets everywhere! They are either going to get better, or rage-quit.

Lastly, we need new players because you gotta move units. I don't understand why people think of this as 'selling out' since the orignial purpose of making the game is to produce a maximum profit. Look at most large companies 'visions.' The ones that are publicly traded....the first line is usually blah blah blah, 'returns to shareholders.' Then further down the pile of propaganda comes the customer. It's not hard to understand. Profits. You got no profits? You got no company.

Sure, you want to make people happy but that's a marketing tool to sell your product and promote your brand.

[djgs]

I am used to all the guns now but i choose not to play the normal MP much. Stick with Alpha !

Agreed though you don't do this on other games, It is done on Gears as so many people out there are a little simple and find it hard to play games that are a bit harder then COD. Thats why the guns were created. Oh well !

[iisiik]

I dont care if i get killed by a SOS, but if it happens like 10 times in a match, then i will be raging.

[ROCKMAGIQ]

They added them so they could mitigate used game sales. They wanted to prevent re-selling the game after playing it. It was supposed to open the game up to more players and keep them playing the game.

I think it worked! It's not like the game is ranked 8th on XBL population only 2 months after release...

Oh wait.

This! Well said.

[Cobryza]

Ha yeah, point-and-shoot exists with EVERY weapon.

Sawn-offs weren't just added for multiplayer, they were added to the WHOLE game. Campaign, Beast mode, Horde mode. The COGs are scavenging whatever weapons they can find because Sera is in ruins and guns don't get made. The gnasher instant-kills when in gib range and has done since the first one, didn't you know that?

The Retro Lancer aka Pendulum Lancer existed before the regular lancer, but I do not see it as a noob weapon. It simply gives an alternative to fighting in close quarters, hence the high-power shots. It sacrifices precision for power, I think that's balanced if you ask me.

[jashin]

A gun that you don't need to aim doesn't belong in any shooter, they seriously need to just up the **** out of the dmg and RE-****ING-QUIRE you to aim I'd be fine if they gave it 2 shots uppers the range a hair, and upped the dmg, cut the reload, as long as they reduce the spread, only reason people ***** about it is because they just look in the opposite direction and get a kill.

As for the retro lancer, I'm just gonna say this, if you gave us a rifle that works in shotty range, I want a shotty that works at rifle range sounds balanced, **** it just give me an AA-12 filled with explosive rounds that sounds like it doesn't belong in the game, or just up the gnasher ranged dmg to :) let those who use retros know what it feels like to be raped.

Before people go on with the adapt and noob and what not, I use my lancer, i NEVER push into shotty range, i've pretty much become a lancer whore, and if you rush me say hello to over powered stopping power, its not what gears once was and is no where near as fun with so many gnasher rush counters, and no way for a gnasher rusher to counter other than turn around and run. Either more variety is needed to help the gnasher rushers, or pretty much tone everything else down really, this game has become like an advanced version of so to speak Halo, without the jumping around, pretty much stay in cover and team fire...

[OoPpEe]

A gun that you don't need to aim doesn't belong in any shooter

Damn.... guess they better remove all the starting weapons because I can hip fire all of them and get kills.

[jashin]

Damn.... guess they better remove all the starting weapons because I can hip fire all of them and get kills.
You sir are an idiot, there is obviously a HUGE difference between the spread of a gnasher and a sawed off...if you can't acknowledge the difference between both weapons spread and the effect it has for their intended purpose you're beyond all forms of stupid and must GTFO and with due haste.


Hell I can even say the reticules agree, every rifle pretty much fires at a single point whether accurately or not , the gnasher fires at 10 points pretty much with in the reticule when aimed, the sawed off....it has a single point, yet it'll kill anything pretty much anything within 180 degrees, I'm pretty sure the game registers at 40 something degrees, but i call good ol' fashion gears of war bull**** to that one

[TempleVIPER1]

That's all a bunch of horse plop. I have played the entire weekend with some really really good players. Most use retro some use sawed offs (very few) and guess what they are Gears 1 and 2 players. The fact that people are still calling them noob guns is ridiculous. You see more retros then anything now. So everyone is a noob?
Every MP game has a gun that people ***** about. I wish people would just realize that this is the best Mp out right now............so let's just play. I get mad also by constantly getting blown apart by sos but ultimately you get over it and just want to play again.

[dopefromie]

Ill admit that i used to complain about the triple barrel, and now any triple barrel user i see is just an easy kill , its very easy to counter

[Crimson Ninja]

The Retro is not a noob weapon it actually takes some skill to kill with it, the sawed off however is a dirty weapon and should be removed.

[BWO RazrStorm]

Because not every game out there has to be a hardcore in your face frustrating as **** game? Nothing is wrong with making the game a little easier for the lesser skilled players. In everygame it doesn't matter what the player is given there will always be people out there to abuse something. So what if "good" players use the DBS? you will die eventually, wether it to the abusers or a decent player. And if you know your a good player and you don't use it and you get killed by the DBS you know you wouldn'tve died if it wasn't there. That should be all you need dude. Just deal with it, neither the DBS or retro are bad. People should really stop getting frustrated oever stupid things like this and just play.

[Richtophen]

The Retro is not a noob weapon it actually takes some skill to kill with it, the sawed off however is a dirty weapon and should be removed.

it beats the gnasher in close range and the lancer in medium range. even burst fired, it downs targets in no time at all. it can instakill people by running at them, and even though this should be easy to do, shotgunning someone charging at you usually doesn't work. even if the charge doesn't kill, it does a crazy amount of damage and stuns you just long enough to get melee downed. Hipfire accuracy has been nerfed, but is still easy to do in CQC.

[TempleVIPER1]

Guess what if he runs up besides you and blasts you with a sos. He was close enough to chainsaw you, gib you with a gnasher, retro charge you or smoke tag you etc etc etc. Lets face it what everyone hates is the ones that run up miss/kill and run away.
Active reload your gnasher against a Retro and don't charge directly at them.

[OoPpEe]

You sir are an idiot, there is obviously a HUGE difference between the spread of a gnasher and a sawed off...if you can't acknowledge the difference between both weapons spread and the effect it has for their intended purpose you're beyond all forms of stupid and must GTFO and with due haste.


Hell I can even say the reticules agree, every rifle pretty much fires at a single point whether accurately or not , the gnasher fires at 10 points pretty much with in the reticule when aimed, the sawed off....it has a single point, yet it'll kill anything pretty much anything within 180 degrees, I'm pretty sure the game registers at 40 something degrees, but i call good ol' fashion gears of war bull**** to that one

Ummmmm what? You're calling me a idiot for saying:
Damn.... guess they better remove all the starting weapons because I can hip fire all of them and get kills.
In reply to you saying:
A gun that you don't need to aim doesn't belong in any shooter

I merely said by that logic you shouldn't have the starting weapons as many can be effectively used without aiming. The Longshot can easily be used with hipfire. I got around 20 headshot hipfires. Digger - no aim needed. Boomshot - can get kills easily without aiming. Mulcher - I walk around holding fire and look kills. Every gun in the game can kill quite easily without aiming (hipfire or blindfire) once you played the game for awhile. Only ones I myself can't are the Oneshot - but that forces aim and the Motar - as I that bouncing projectile never hits the target for me.
So tell me how I'm a idiot? Because I can kill with almost every gun in the game without using the L buttons?
Even your reply proves my point correct:
Hell I can even say the reticules agree, every rifle pretty much fires at a single point whether accurately or not , the gnasher fires at 10 points pretty much with in the reticule when aimed, the sawed off....it has a single point, yet it'll kill anything pretty much anything within 180 degrees
So I am a idiot for saying the starting guns can kill without being aimed - then in your same reply you agree with my comment. Damn....

You sir are an idiot, there is obviously a HUGE difference between the spread of a gnasher and a sawed off...
Obviously there is. However did I say anything about the spread? No. I stated you can kill with both without aim.
if you can't acknowledge the difference between both weapons spread and the effect it has for their intended purpose you're beyond all forms of stupid and must GTFO and with due haste.
If you can't read and comprehend what someone says, perhaps you must also GTFO and with due haste.

[D1ZZY W4LL1N]

Why include weapons like the sawed-off and retro that cater to casual/noob players? Other successful multiplayer games don't just go around handing out weapons for noobs. Other games expect new players to learn the game to gradually get better, but in Gears they are just handed a point-and-shoot, instant-kill weapon like the sawed off. That is not the smart Gears game I love. Plus there is the issue of players who actually know what they are doing that abuse these overpowered weapons. Just tell me why.

I can see where you're coming from man, but Epic has GREATLY improved this game. They have listened to the community and, IMO, the game is amazing. Yes, we all would like a little nerf here and there, but they can't please us all. When the beta was first launched, it had some huge flaws that needed to be fixed. But obviously, that's what a beta is for. Even on release day, there were still a lot of things that needed fixing. But Epic has fixed a ton, if not all of the things that were complained about. The Retro's hipfire, spawn trapping in maps, the SOS's range, etc. And the SOS and the Retro aren't insta kill weapons; They're not auto aimed. I kill people with the SOS and Retro all the time. You just have to adjust your play style. When I first started playing Gears 3, I got really mad because I was getting killed a lot, whereas in Gears 2 I was usually at the top of the leaderboards. I realized I needed to step back and slightly alter my play style, due to the increased damage of AR's and the SOS.

[Cobryza]

Imagine if the Gears vets made Gears 3, ah it would be terrible, they would make it a one-gun game. Catering to JUST their playstyle. Just gnasher and that is it, how boring would that be. Just a bunch of crybabies who can't accept that all starting weapons should be powerful.

[Jords A Jedi]

The thread title makes me think of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ