Does anybody else notice a HUGE problem with Sandbar and Overpass?

[XX C Mox xx]

It's already noticeable for both maps. They both become AR camp-fests as one team is attempting to control the middle. Once a team controls the middle they can just camp out.

Overpass is really bad because of that troika (it worked well in War Machine in Gears 1, but it doesn't fit this map). Also 2nd round shouldn't spawn mortar, it should be longshot or torque. The reason I say this is because mortar has such a short affective area on the map (pretty much the troika platform and that's it). Mortar would be great if people actually went around the low side of the map, but everybody just pushes middle as it's so crucial to hold.

Sandbar is slightly better but still runs into the same problem, as the middle has a similar design to Overpass. If your team manages to get digger/boom you can camp the middle and it makes it very difficult for a team to get in (especially if you post a sniper on the hill overlooking the whole map.

Solutions:

Overpass: Open up the section underneath the middle hill and put a power weapon, grenades, or something there to give players incentive to not just rush the troika. Also, just get rid of the troika as it makes controlling the hill easier if your team controls Hammer of Dawn or keeps their eye on mortar (depending on what round it is).

Sandbar: I'm not really sure what to do here. I would open up the back side of the map as entry ways to digger/boom so there are more ways to get into middle hill. Sandbar isn't as bad as Overpass, but it still leads to hardcore camping. Also those two little crannies inside the digger/boom area is a great place for sawed off people to sit back and wait for somebody to walk by. It's impossible to tell if they are in that cover, and when you find out it's far too late.


Ever since the beta, Checkout has been my favorite map, and still is. It feels and plays like a Gears map. It's heavy CQC, impossible to camp, symmetrical, and excellent for wall-bouncing. Checkout has two distinct platforms for a team to defend (snipe/digger and mulcer/nades), whereas Sandbar and Overpass don't, though they appear to on the surface. And though I don't think changes like this will take place, I would ask Epic to consider making maps similar to Checkout, not because I love it so much, but because of its design element that incorporates multiple map strategies. (Note: Hotel is a map that also works in the same way Checkout does).

What do you guys think?

[Z_Ethan]

No I played Sandbar several times last night and it never turned into an AR holdout. I got plenty of Gnasher action. Overpass however I have not played yet.

[james288gto]

Th maps are great. Overpass camping areas have the Mortar/Hammer even the Boomshield to counter them. The turret makes you a sitting duck and there are plenty of grenades. Sandbar has the Oneshot/Hammer and longshots to counter camping.

Some of the most intense matches I've played yet were on Sandbar. Stand-offs can be fun (sometimes) but I know what you mean. One side just has to bite the bullet and attack eventually.

[NFI]

Maps are excellent. Simply require a coordinated team to uproot the other team.

[Richtophen]

overpass is bad because people camp up top and there is only 1 way up. sandbar has only 2 ways up, but camping with the AR isn't too bad. i actually saw most kills take place further down from the sides. also they get a HOD/oneshot AND 2 snipers if the other team tries hiding up top and only loses the boomshot/digger.

[TroyMcClure]

Overpass seems like the high ground is the only way to win. We proved in multiple playtests that it is DEFINITELY possible to stay down at HOD/mortar and win. It just requires teamwork and patience.

There is no need to run up there and die.

[ACx7]

The only map that I have played on so far that didn't become an AR camp fest was Hotel. I think I can see my self playing more objective modes in this one because of it.

[NFI]

If you want to use the Gnasher in this edition of Gears you really need to work with your team and get inside. You cant rush in alone as you could in the past. Some team members need to draw their fire, then you get yourself in.

[AHal]

To be honest, I'd rather more AR campfest matches than shotgun-is-the-only-useful-weapon matches.

[Richtophen]

Overpass seems like the high ground is the only way to win. We proved in multiple playtests that it is DEFINITELY possible to stay down at HOD/mortar and win. It just requires teamwork and patience.

There is no need to run up there and die.



While it is.possible to bunker down at that spawn and not run up, you have to take the man up rule into account. Sitting back there on the loss only ensures that you die less. You can try using that weapon, but you don't exactly have the best angles to do that unless you go by the stairs' base.

Doable, but still pretty tricky. Chokepoints are bad. Even thrashball at least offers 2 ways up which not only give the attackers a better chance, but also force defenders to split up to hold down the fort.

[T0PP HATT]

I haven't seen any camping on these maps. In fact it's been just the opposite for me. I played them both last night quite a bit and it was a knock down drag out with a great
mixture of everything. We were all to busy whooping each others asses to camp...
Had a blast...

[sloc234]

Sandbar is fine I think, I quite enjoyed it for KOTH, but Overpass is completely broken. It's just like trenches used to be, except worse. I think it will become the least-voted map very quickly.

[Richtophen]

Sandbar is fine I think, I quite enjoyed it for KOTH, but Overpass is completely broken. It's just like trenches used to be, except worse. I think it will become the least-voted map very quickly.

i'd love to think that if we got it voted into the beta that it would be fixed, but then they might not have fixed another map like trenches. still, how the hell does a map with only 1 way up to the top (where there is both a turret and power weapon) make it through playtesting? sure there is a mortar and hammer on the bottom, but it isn't very effective from there and you are a sitting duck if you try to go out in the open to get a good angle.


.

[Shockwave IIC]

I haven't played Sandbar yet, but I have played Overpass a few times now. And with a coordinated attack by the lower team the Troika is worth nothing.

Now, if the upper team has the Hammer/ Mortar. Yeah that's a tad hard to shift.

[JediJackBauer83]

Im enjoying all the maps. Ive only played TDM so far and i like the places you can hold on the maps. Different maps have different play styles which i like.

[Mr Biron]

We played a game earlier where the other team ran straight up to the boomer/digger spot on Sandbar and just camped there for the game. it's very boring. This is why I prefer Execution.

[Lord Hogg]

sandbar is ok. i hate overpass.

[TheoryOfComplex]

the quad hammy turret on overpass is not that bad it makes a good hold out spot in TDM matches and that's why the hammer of dawn is there on certain rounds so you can make fast work of the turret users lol

[BRADEN OWNZ]

There isn't tall enough cover on the west side of the map on Sandbar.

Overpass seems fine.

[Smooth Outlaw]

I dont think you understand what camping really is, people staying behind cover and using their AR's to advance is not camping.

[XX C Mox xx]

I understand perfectly what camping is.

There's a specific spot (there might be two actually) on Sandbar in the digger room where somebody can just hide in a corner (literally) with sawed-off. That's camping. Also, waiting at both entrances to the hill with AR's is camping.

When a guy is on troika on Overpass and his whole team is in flamethrower, and not moving from that spot, that's camping. Especially when the team knows it's almost impossible to get up that area in the map (as the stairs offer less dynamic cover than flamethrower. translate: there are more areas to shoot from at flamethrower than ascending the stairs).

Your key phrase was "using AR's to advance", and you're right, using AR's to advance isn't camping.

Also, this isn't supposed to be a pro-gnasher post, this is about two specific map designs and how they undoubtedly allow camping and extreme bottlenecking.

Let it be known: I was on teams last night that played like that and we won TDM matches by a huge ratio, it's unfair to the other team and it's incredibly boring to have to play that way. Those two maps are the equivalent of Flood in Gears 2.

[IDeadWork]

I don't like sandbar. Dont have a particular reason why...I just don't like it.

[WWZSniper87]

It's called strategic advantage. Get to the spot that gives you the high ground and hold it. Art of war.

[XX C Mox xx]

It's called strategic advantage. Get to the spot that gives you the high ground and hold it. Art of war.

You missed the part where I said: I understand perfectly what camping is.

And these two: this is about two specific map designs and how they undoubtedly allow camping and extreme bottlenecking. AND: it's unfair to the other team and it's incredibly boring to have to play that way

[Wardog313]

Off topic: anybody else having problems with the weapon executions..

[82PeRK]

Overpass could have been so much better with different weopons, where is the sniper. Unreal

[IDeadWork]

Overpass could have been so much better with different weopons, where is the sniper. Unreal

Getting high ground with a sniper on that map would be too much of a tactical advantage IMO.

[Richtophen]

i take back what i said about sandbar. you really have no chance at all if a team gets to the middle and wins it initially. boomshot/torque, supreme vatage point over the whole map, and only 2 entrances that 1 guy can cover with a boom/digger, or 2 people can guard with rifles.

add in the team bringing a guy with sniper in there and you might as well quit out.

Epic should've learned after Thrashball...

[XX C Mox xx]

i take back what i said about sandbar. you really have no chance at all if a team gets to the middle and wins it initially. boomshot/torque, supreme vatage point over the whole map, and only 2 entrances that 1 guy can cover with a boom/digger, or 2 people can guard with rifles.

add in the team bringing a guy with sniper in there and you might as well quit out.

Epic should've learned after Thrashball...

Finally, somebody gets it! woot!

[a_fat_greek_cat]

The second game that I played last night was on Sandbar and everyone on my team instantly hated it because EVERYONE on their team rushed up to boom/dig and camped there the whole game. It's absolutely horrible. If a team manages to get their sniper, then push boom/digger and get it and win out over the other team, they really stand no chance. Especially if they seize both snipers by chance (on respawn gametypes).

I don't think it's as bad on Overpass. There are ways to get rid of people who camp up top (namely the grenades near the spawns). I'm not particularly fond of the map but I don't think it's that big of a problem. I really think that Overpass was made mostly just to be a horde map, because it rocks for horde.