Warzone/Execution need your help reloaded – original man-up rule discussion

[Fl4m3rX]

Hello Gearheads,

most of you will probably remember me and my huge thread about the new stalemate system. This thread was linked in several articles and raised a heated discussion in the MLG scene. For those of you who didn't see it, here you go (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=804640).

This thread is really big because of its' complex topic but I ask you politely to take the time to read the opening post. It has all information that is necessary for you to understand the topic and its' concerns. It is very important to read and understand it.

Unfortunately the thread got closed at some point. Joe said there is no point in riling up people who haven't even played it. He said I could come along with the topic again once the game has shipped.
Well, it is exactly 12 pm where I live and the game will get released today.



This thread's intention is to catch EPIC's attention on the matter to get the man-up rule (at least in Warzone/Execution) changed.

For now I ask you to write down your experiences with the man-up rule only. I just want to see facts. In a week you can start to raise your opinion about the man-up rule and make suggestions why and in which way it should get or not get changed.

I am going to make a poll, but I will do that only later. That has two reasons.
Firstly I haven't made my final decision on how many and which answers it should include.
Secondly, as I said this is a very complex topic and you will need time to understand the way the man-up rule works and how it can be exploited. In my first thread I've seen people who changed their opinions some time later and couldn't vote again.
I want you to take the time to understand the system!

I am very serious because the man-up rule is a fatal gamebreaker in my opinion and the results shall get as precise as possible.



The original thread had more than 900 posts and I read every single one! I am going to do the same here, of course.

I don't want to see any images in here like "Oh look, this thread again"! Furthermore I don't want to see any useless or unnecessary comments as well as comments with rude or harassing content.
Every post that applies to any of these criteria will get reported and treated accordingly.

Please be as constructive with your posts as you were in the other thread. This was a healthy discussion before and brought up very good arguments.


Now keep posting and let this thread stay on page one again. I need your support! :)



I know there are other stalemate threads out there, but I wrote this thread weeks ago and will make it as big as the old one!

[dkhrmn]

I think they should have left them how they were! It was perfect. This "Man up rule" only benifits experienced players.....if that! People can just hardcore camp! So if u have someone on ur team that rushes and dies then your team now has to rush no tactical play!

[DoIlookLocustToU]

i dislike this change, it makes elimination modes feel more like TDM. its no longer about eliminating everybody, and more about surviving which IMO slows down the gameplay of non-respawn modes. there is already enough emphasis on staying alive by not having respawns and it was much better before the new changes. the new rules make map control easier when you obtain the better power weapons

also 3 rounds is a joke for ranked, public its fine but not ranked. i wish ranked was "classic" execution/warzone while public could use the new rules

[Casualties]

We're definitely looking to make this change. Back when this was announced a few months ago, I was upset at such a mindless change. When Rod answered a question about it during one of his livestreams, he said they instituted the Man-Up rule because, and I quote, "Stalemates suck". No disrespect to Mr. Ferguson, but that's one of the weakest, thoughtless answers I've heard a dev. provide to a fan base.

Let's examine the issues here.

1) Host had A LOT to do with stalemates in Gears 2. If you had host and you knew how to use it, you could beat another team into submission. They'd either quit out or they'd camp. Camping was frustrating because people don't like to lose. Also, in this "gotta have it now" world that we live in, people are extremely impatient. That's why this rule came about in the first place. People hate campers. Lord knows I do. I couldn't tell you how many times I've grown angry at teams that camp it out on Blood Drive or Ruins because they lost the first couple rounds. It happens. But the big solution to a lot of this mess is....wait for it...DEDICATED SERVERS. Host isn't an issue as it once was. Camping won't be nearly as bad as what it once was. Why this rule is in this game is beyond me.

2) The Man-Up rule itself is flawed in nature. Execution and Warzone are elimination games. That means that in order to win the round, you have to kill every. single. person. No questions asked. Now that isn't the case. All a team has to do is kill someone and then *BOOM* they not only have a man-advantage, but also a game advantage with the clock working in their favor. This makes for the team with less players to have to push in order to try to salvage the round. That can be a suicide maneuver when the other team has a man-advantage. Why? Man-Advantage usually allows the other team to have map control. With map control comes power weapon control. Is a team of 2-3 really going to stand a chance at rushing a team of five? Not really. Why then should they be made to rush? Because stalemates aren't a desirable outcome to a game? So what. That's part of the charm and allure of Execution and Warzone. The gametypes themselves are a grind, so switching up the fundamentals of how the game is actually played is just flawed logic.

3) Why must the team with less members be penalized in the first place? Just because someone died doesn't mean the rest of the team should be put into a tight spot. What if it's one guy - new to the game even - and he doesn't know the complexities of the game. He runs out or doesn't use cover adequately and he gets killed. Suddenly you're at two disadvantages. 1) Down a man and 2) dwindling clock is perilous. But for what? Shouldn't the team that has MORE players be under pressure to finish off their round? Why shouldn't the other team with a decided advantage be made to exercise that advantage in combat? Sure, they got the early kill. But the fight doesn't stop there does it? In Gears 3, I promise you will find teams that camp it out for the win. It will happen, and has happened.

4) Combine this with the first-to-3 victories that has been instituted to win the game, and you're talking about a very different landscape for Execution. Make no mistake, Execution and Warzone are hardcore gametypes. You don't get second chances, you don't get to respawn. You succeed or you fail. This rule changes that approach. There now is a gray area. You don't have to fulfill the requirements of victory any longer to win.

I hope you guys play it over the next few days and see how things have changed. I encourage you to come back here and push this further. It's in our court right now. We're on the precipice of release. A week or two from now? Let's have EPIC see that we want the original settings back. Afterall, my mother told me, and I'm sure your mother told you...If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[DJ CARNIV AL]

Theres a Poll running to get it back to 5 rounds, Cant believe theyve changed it so much!! I cant give my complete opinion until ive played more.

If your warzone friends are mad and disapointed direct them here!!!

[IDeadWork]

They should had returned untouched as promised, why were they altered?

[oMazeo]

I know bumping is not allowed but more people need to see this thread, so we can atleast try to get this changed. plus all of the threads on the front page are just flaming versions of this anyway. Atleast this is an organized discussion

[Nevermind1982]

I love the Man-up rule. It's for the brave, it suits the game.

[Baven]

I love the Man-up rule. It's for the brave, it suits the game.

You cant be serious ???

EPIC PLEASE MAKE IT BACK TO 5 ROUNDS AND NO MAN UP RULE!!

[Fl4m3rX]

Lol, we just won...


Already fixed in the next patch to go back to G1/G2 system.


Cheers,

-E


Free beer for all! :D

[craze indian]

not to familiar with the man up rule but after reading these post, to my understanding the team w/ fewer players need "man up" and go fight in stead of run. if this is correct that kind of sucks I have seen matches in gow2 where its been 3 on 1 and by using duck and cover the out numbered player was able win the round. it sound like gow2 had execution perfect. but I will try it out 2night on gow3.

if in not understanding this correctly please correct me.

[Fl4m3rX]

not to familiar with the man up rule but after reading these post, to my understanding the team w/ fewer players need "man up" and go fight in stead of run. if this is correct that kind of sucks I have seen matches in gow2 where its been 3 on 1 and by using duck and cover the out numbered player was able win the round. it sound like gow2 had execution perfect. but I will try it out 2night on gow3.

if in not understanding this correctly please correct me.
You are right. But it has already been confirmed that it gets changed back to what it was. :)