why not release just an updater!

[carl1980]

I mean no disrespect, I'm just grateful for epic for giving me the opportunity to work with this engine.

However, why not just release an updater for those with previous versions??? 99% of the content is the same. Instead of downloading a 5mb file we are downloading 1.5GB file every month.

[ambershee]

Because different people handle their file structure and settings differently. An automatic updater would break this for almost everyone who has done so much as modify an ini file.

[MonsOlympus]

Whys that ambershee? I know you got a point but an updater should be smart enough to parse ini's hell that ability is already built into the engine.

[ambershee]

It'll be doing a three-way diff on the user files, the base files it is expecting from the previous version, and the new version.

What does the updater do if all three versions are different? Assuming any one to be correct is effectively a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong. Parsing it is easy, but it's not going to do any reasoning for you.

[JessieG]

Plus something's are removed, others added, and if you keep adding updates instead of fresh installs things can start to get buggy REALLY fast.

Say you use a node in a material editor that is altered or removed. Updating can be a problem instead of rebuilding in a new version.

[Crusha K. Rool]

Say you use a node in a material editor that is altered or removed. Updating can be a problem instead of rebuilding in a new version.

They actually pay attention to keep stuff compatible between versions. If a node is outdated, it will still be left in to avoid issues for people who migrate their packages to a new installation and instead just mention that the stuff is deprecated and should be manually replaced with the proper new thing.

There are some nodes in the Material Edtior and the Anim Tree Editor that handle it this way.

[StingReay]

I don't think an updater should be made available, but by god, make the updated installers smaller for people who just want to update their current installation! Not everyone wants to download a 1.5 GB installer every month just to get the newest features. XD

[MonsOlympus]

I have to agree though it is alittle rediculous to download such a large file to use maybe 50mb of it. Alot of the filesize is assets so itd be nice if there was asset releases or feature releases seperate so we could simply add the assets release to a specific feature release we are using. The amount of UT content Ive downloaded with UDK has to be more than downloading the entire UT3 by now easy.

@ambershee you can cut it to a 2 way diff easy, theres no need for the defaults if you have a current up to date (working) set on the persons install. All you need to do is flag updated variables, quite simple actually.

[ambershee]

@ambershee you can cut it to a 2 way diff easy, theres no need for the defaults if you have a current up to date (working) set on the persons install. All you need to do is flag updated variables, quite simple actually.

I said 50/50 for a reason. You can assume that the line in the base version is unwanted since it has been changed in the update. However the user has also changed this line. There is no possible way to determine which of the two branches from the base version is the correct one to use in the merged version.

Any auto-merging program will flag this as a conflict and the user will have to resolve it manually. This is fine for text files, but for anything else, you're ****ed.

[ambershee]

They actually pay attention to keep stuff compatible between versions. If a node is outdated, it will still be left in to avoid issues for people who migrate their packages to a new installation and instead just mention that the stuff is deprecated and should be manually replaced with the proper new thing.

This isn't always strictly true. Significant alterations to feature sets can easily break older content and have done a couple of times in the past.

[Froyok]

I have to agree though it is alittle rediculous to download such a large file to use maybe 50mb of it. Alot of the filesize is assets so itd be nice if there was asset releases or feature releases seperate so we could simply add the assets release to a specific feature release we are using. The amount of UT content Ive downloaded with UDK has to be more than downloading the entire UT3 by now easy.
I agree on this point. When the UDK is installed, it takes 2gb only for the Content folder.
Since we have now the "simple pawn" and "udk pawn" code, I guess the dependencies to the UTGame is not mandatory.

[MonsOlympus]

I said 50/50 for a reason. You can assume that the line in the base version is unwanted since it has been changed in the update. However the user has also changed this line. There is no possible way to determine which of the two branches from the base version is the correct one to use in the merged version.

Any auto-merging program will flag this as a conflict and the user will have to resolve it manually. This is fine for text files, but for anything else, you're ****ed.

Just take the old ini, check it for new or deprecated vars add those based on the new default and voila. That simple really!

[ambershee]

I'm really glad you're not in charge of merging builds around here.

Consider this line (base, user, update)

ShadowTechnique=TypeA
ShadowTechnique=TypeB
ShadowTechnique=TypeC

You're a merging tool. Which one do you pick? Is it the user line? Is it the updated line?

NOT simple.

[taz1004]

Even full released games that support mods, they ask you to uninstall all mods before installing patches. Doing that on UDK would be even more troublesome than reinstalling.

I changed default UT packages such as sounds (keeping names). If updater would simply check for newer content, it would delete all my changes. Epic also constantly changes uc files. Moves values around from file to file and often combines or removes entire uc files. (uc files related to crowd system recently for example) I sometimes have to track these changes down manually and I see no way how this can be updated "automatically" with an updater.

This updating is a chore because UDK is being updated every month. 1 month update cycle is unheard of and should actually be thanking Epic. But remember that you don't have to update every month.

I do agree that the download size has gotten huge lately. I personally find default content to be helpful but I understand others request for lighter version. But this I don't believe is a critical issue either as it's just an overnight download.

[StingReay]

I'm really glad you're not in charge of merging builds around here.

Consider this line (base, user, update)

ShadowTechnique=TypeA
ShadowTechnique=TypeB
ShadowTechnique=TypeC

You're a merging tool. Which one do you pick? Is it the user line? Is it the updated line?

NOT simple.

Yes simple. Ask user if they wish to change said entry before continuing. If ShadowTechnique chosen by user is deprecated, warn them of it, else if they click 'no', skip.

[Graylord]

If you're going to have to check every single changed line yourself, you might just as well manually port it.

[ambershee]

Yes simple. Ask user if they wish to change said entry before continuing. If ShadowTechnique chosen by user is deprecated, warn them of it, else if they click 'no', skip.

No simple.


Any auto-merging program will flag this as a conflict and the user will have to resolve it manually. This is fine for text files, but for anything else, you're ****ed.

Binary files. You're an end user. Do you want to keep the red line or the green line? Sample taken from diffing two versions of a genuine Unreal 3 file.

++({r po , o
(-ÌÞþ oÜ(

[ffejnosliw]

++({r po , o
(-ÌÞþ oÜ(
Clearly, the red one. It starts with 2 pluses while the green has one minus. Pluses are always better than minuses.

[danimal']

Disagree, red has been proven to cause cognitive impairment (sadly, no joke, people test lower with a red mark on the paper), whereas green promotes thoughts of creativity and energy. Green for the win!

[taz1004]

I'd agree with danimal'. Red has "poo" in it.

[StingReay]

I predict this thread will slowly fade into the abyss of being completely unrelated to the OP.

[JessieG]

Personally the large coleslaw doesn't bother me. Start the download, check some e-mails, go outside for a smoke, come back and it's done. I can see how it would be bothersome for overseas people with capped usage and whatnot, but overall it's not a painstaking process. I prefer fresh installs to make sure everything works how it should. It's also a lot easier to troubleshoot any type of problem if you run into a bug or problem manually moving files in. Easy to narrow down which file is causing the problem when something worked fine until a specific file is added.

[MasterOfKings]

It's also a lot easier to troubleshoot any type of problem if you run into a bug or problem manually moving files in. Easy to narrow down which file is causing the problem when something worked fine until a specific file is added. If you manually move files en-mass it's difficult to find problems. Especially if you create multiple files which rely on others.

So, it can be a problem for large moves; but less of a problem with small moves.

-MoK