Scaleform UI to be included with UDK! (UPDATED)

[Steve Polge]

http://www.develop-online.net/news/34537/Not-just-UE3-Scaleform-to-be-free-for-UDK

We're currently working hard on polishing the Scaleform GFx integration in UE3. Our plan is to use this UI system in the future for all our games. The May UDK build contains a preliminary version of the Scaleform GFx integration, which is still in development. You can start working on your user interface design using Flash editors, as Scaleform GFx is an in-game system for rendering Flash. This is the full version of the Scaleform GFx SDK, but does not include Scaleform Video, is not included in the UE3/UDK bundle, but it is available as a separate add-on for UE3 Source licensees that want integrated Flash Video support. UE3 Source licensees that are interested in Scaleform Video should contact Scaleform directly at: sales@scaleform.com.

Once this integration is fully functional and tested, we will be phasing out our old UI system. This means at some point this year, UDK will no longer have support for the current UE3 UI system. UDK developers who wish to use an interface based on the current UI system will no longer be able to upgrade to newer UDK builds.

As mentioned in the press release, the Scaleform GFx UI system will be useable by UDK developers at no additional cost. That means it is free for non-commercial use, and included in the UDK commercial license terms for commercial use. To clarify: UDK users do not pay any additional fees to use Scaleform for commercial or non-commercial projects. The Scaleform GFx license is included at ZERO cost for all UE3 and UDK based applications on all platforms supported by Epic.

The only additional cost is for Adobe Flash studio, which most professional or even semi-professional users should have as part of the Adobe Creative Suite, which also includes popular tools like Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, and Premier. Adobe offers discounted academic versions and there are many other discounted resellers online.

There are alternative less expensive Flash authoring tools, such as Sothink SWF Quicker at roughly $85:
http://www.sothink.com/product/swfquicker

However, Scaleform only provides official support for content produced by the Adobe Flash toolset. That's not to say tools like Sothink won't work, but they are not officially supported.


Here's an update from the Scaleform development team:


The latest version of Scaleform GFx 3.2 supports most Flash 8 AS2 functionality. The Unreal docs will outline all the details soon.

Later this year (Q4 2010), Scaleform GFx 4.0 will be officially released with initial Flash 10 AS3 support. It will have its limitations in terms of the latest Flash 10 and AS3 features, but each new release will continue to be more complete, similar to the way GFx v1.0 - v3.2 continued to support more Flash 8 AS2.

Scaleform will have alpha and beta versions of GFx 4.0 (AS3) available earlier, but it's Epic's decision on when and which version to integrate into UE3 and UDK. We normally recommend only using beta or final versions for shipping product.

Scaleform provides a separate integration compatible with UE3 source SDK (not UDK, because it's binary only), which is updated monthly to be compatible to the latest Scaleform GFx beta and final releases. The Scaleform integration supports additional components that are optional and not required for console game developers, but that some may be interested in. Again, it will be outlined in the Unreal docs soon.

So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 tools to publish to Flash 8 AS2 format to create stunning front end menus, high performance HUDs, even animated Flash textures on 3D surfaces.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=hud

Scaleform has also added 3Di (3D interface) rendering, which allows you to tilt and rotate any element in 3D using a simple set of ActionScript extensions. The current 3Di rendering via ActionScript is the same as Flash 10's native 3D, which will be supported in GFx 4.0.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=3di

There's even a new Scaleform AMP performance tool that can be used to profile Flash content running inside your Unreal game. Please keep in mind the tool is new and limited in functionality (and may have an issue or two), but we're working hard to make it as useful and powerful as possible. We're eager to hear your feedback on how to make it even better.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=amp

You can visit www.scaleform.com (http://www.scaleform.com) for more information and videos.

UE3 Source licensees and evaluators should register at www.scaleform.com/register (http://www.scaleform.com/register) to receive additional Flash/Scaleform support. We have many C++ and Flash experts on staff to help.

UDK developers will be supported through the UDN community.

We look forward to working with everyone!

-- Brendan
www.scaleform.com

[Angel_Mapper]

Very very nice. Thank you!

[silver619]

when you say UE3 UI system you mean the HUD as well as the UIScene?

[Steve Polge]

Yes, you can use Scaleform to implement your HUD. We'll continue to support the use of Canvas (like UTHUD) for in-game HUDs, but our tests show that the latest version of Scaleform GFx has quite good performance. We'll provide example HUD implementations in UTGame both using the Canvas approach (the current UTHUD) and a new HUD using Flash.

[Steve Polge]

To be clear, the Canvas and HUD classes are not going away. UIScene and all those associated classes will be going away.

[HEGI]

This sounds great. Is the UI datastore system still used with scaleform or is it getting replaced aswell ?

[darthviper107]

Will there be any limitations to GFX in UDK since it's free?

[_h2o_]

When will we have UDK version with Scaleform GFx integrated? in April? in May? or Later?

Scaleform GFx will soon be free to use on UDK for non-commercial use

Later this year, users downloading the UDK will also get Scaleform GFx thrown in.
This can be much later...
so, What month? How long will we be waiting for it?

[stevenchau]

I think , UI is most most hard part in game design
UI/ HUD is very important , if , your game UI / HUD is perfect ,your game certain good sales ! but previous , create perfect UI & HUD , your programmer skill must strong !
my programmer skill is weakness , so UI / HUD is my weakness , I trouble ... how to design beautiful UI / HUD , how to do ???
I stop design my game , how to create my hud ? I don't want spend so long time to create HUD.
Now , I find scaleform GFx !!

Scaleform GFx
https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en

Oh , I aware my design way is very very wrong !!! !!!
all game designer is use Scaleform GFx to design HUD , not only UE3 , I am so stupid !!
why Epic no any Scaleform GFx info ?
today , I find Scaleform GFx , now , I only use Scaleform GFx !!

[westclif]

mhm and how can we download a free version to design the ui ?

[silver619]

sorry but one more thing, as you said that we can begin designing out UIs, is there possibly any guidelines that we can get for make the flash part?

[Steve Polge]

The datastore system can be used with the GFx integration, but this certainly isn't required.

At the earliest, we may have the initial Scaleform GFx integration included in the May version of the UDK. We certainly won't have completed all the sample UI implementation we are planning to build for UTGame by that point.

The GFx implementation in the UDK will be the exact same as what we will be using ourselves and providing to our licensees.

[Allar]

The datastore system can be used with the GFx integration, but this certainly isn't required.

At the earliest, we may have the initial Scaleform GFx integration included in the May version of the UDK. We certainly won't have completed all the sample UI implementation we are planning to build for UTGame by that point.

The GFx implementation in the UDK will be the exact same as what we will be using ourselves and providing to our licensees.

/hug___________

[Blade[UG]]

so, it will actually be possible to create something dynamically, that does not depend on that giant mess of DataStore/DataProvider/etc as well as native code?

[Steve Polge]

;27242851']so, it will actually be possible to create something dynamically, that does not depend on that giant mess of DataStore/DataProvider/etc as well as native code?

Yes, that's the plan :).

[_h2o_]

If Scaleform GFx provides good UI for inventory and skills system, maybe it has some for save it...
So, does Scaleform provides any kind of save system?

[Mr Evil]

“scalable data-driven Flash UI elements for videos, menuing systems, overlays, HUDs and animated textures directly on 3D objects.”
Given the bit of the quote that I have bolded above, does that mean it will be possible to have a UI that the player can interact with rendered onto an object in the world? There was a thread concerning this (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=724510) recently, and an earlier one that I posted (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=722353).

[micahpharoh]

UIscene was a disaster, imo. I'm kinda sad to see it go, though.

[Jetfire]

Just as I'd bothered to learn how to use UIScene, and to avoid some of it's crashes, lol :D
Great news, thanks guys.

[danimal']

That means it is free for non-commercial use, and included in the UDK commercial license terms for commercial use.

While I'm otherwise ecstatic, I just want to make sure I understand. Does the above mean if I publish a commercial game, I don't owe anything other than the usual Epic Royalties still? Just want to ensure there's no separate payment owed for the use of the new UI system :) Thanks Epic, you rule!

[Steve Polge]

It is included in the UDK commercial license terms, meaning you don't have to pay them separately.

[Piranhi]

This is just the type of news I wanted to hear after a bad day! Great work as usual!

Edit: Saying that, I'm sure I heard about this months ago, I went to their website and it all came flooding back, or am I going crazy?

[Blade[UG]]

Yes, that's the plan :).

Today was a very sad day for me today, with the death of one of my favorite musicians, but you have managed to put a smile on my face, sir.

[Blade[UG]]

If Scaleform GFx provides good UI for inventory and skills system, maybe it has some for save it...
So, does Scaleform provides any kind of save system?

... I don't see how UI would have a save system .. ?

[ShawnBaxe]

If Scaleform GFx provides good UI for inventory and skills system, maybe it has some for save it...
So, does Scaleform provides any kind of save system?

Erm...no? ;) The UI...for an inventory for example...is nothing more than a graphical representation of scripted objects, which reside in the player's scripted inventory. The UI just graphically represents those objects and lets the player interact with them (e.g. use, drop, equip, ...). The UI has nothing to do with the save system...just like the renderer has nothing to do with the audio subsystem in a game engine ;)

But Scaleform GFx will make it easier to create stunning UIs - both functional and beautiful.

[Lunazure]

This is fantastic news! I have one question:

Will we be able to develop Flash UI elements for Scaleform with the upcoming software Flash Catalyst? I can post more information on the product if that will help.

[VeliV]

Does Scaleform work with Adobe flex? Or do you need an additional Adobe Flash license to use it?

[BloodReyvyn]

"free for non-commercial use..."

Well, screw that, I have to buy enough licenses.

Will the last UDK version before this integration is made still be made available for those of us on little or no budget?

EDIT: Nevermind, I missed danimal's post and your response.

[Kaldrick]

Given the bit of the quote that I have bolded above, does that mean it will be possible to have a UI that the player can interact with rendered onto an object in the world? There was a thread concerning this (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=724510) recently, and an earlier one that I posted (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=722353).

Hell yeah, I'm hoping for it. On the other hand, that's kinda stopping my uscript backend of game from evolving, until it will be released. As there is no point in extending UIScene right now ;]

[elmuerte]

Does Scaleform work with Adobe flex? Or do you need an additional Adobe Flash license to use it?

I really doubt it. GFx is Scaleform's own implementation of Flash and ActionScript (2.0). So you most likely won't be able to use Adobe's additional Flash stuff like Flex' runtime.

[nikolajp]

I think Flash Action Scripting 3.0 is to be supported on the next major release (4.0).
But as mentioned - Scaleform has to write their own compiler and is only supporting the basic functions. They are then "catching up to Adobe" and implementing what people seem to need. It is already awesome now, and the commercial games using it proves how cool this technology is (even with basic Flash script support).

[Wraiyth]

Any information on what we'll get with Scaleform in terms of the related documentation/tutorials, updates, add-ons etc? I was reading the GDC stuff about the 3D UIs, the Scaleform Video etc, and they would be great features to utilize.

[ShawnBaxe]

Any information on what we'll get with Scaleform in terms of the related documentation/tutorials, updates, add-ons etc? I was reading the GDC stuff about the 3D UIs, the Scaleform Video etc, and they would be great features to utilize.

Patience is the key ;) Wait until UDK + GFx has been released and the tutorials and everything else we need will eventually appear :D You can't expect stuff like tuts or add-ons for something that's still under development ;) And until UDK ships with GFx integration, GFx and related docs are only available to paying customers of Scaleform afaik.

[Wraiyth]

I only ask because the GDC demos showed it integrated with UT3 and they noted that they had actually integrated it with the engine. Whether that was through DLLBind or the partnership has been long running, I'm not sure. I'm only asking becaus the UIScene samples/documentation is good, I'm hoping that even though its a more powerful UI system, the support won't slip for it because its licensed middleware.
Aside from that, we're just starting to work on a UI design for the game I'm doing, so knowing the exact capabilities (especially in the 3D stuff) would be great to know :)

[ShawnBaxe]

I only ask because the GDC demos showed it integrated with UT3 and they noted that they had actually integrated it with the engine. Whether that was through DLLBind or the partnership has been long running, I'm not sure. I'm only asking becaus the UIScene samples/documentation is good, I'm hoping that even though its a more powerful UI system, the support won't slip for it because its licensed middleware.
Aside from that, we're just starting to work on a UI design for the game I'm doing, so knowing the exact capabilities (especially in the 3D stuff) would be great to know :)

You mean support for UIScene? Well...the old UI system will eventually be removed and replaced by GFx if I'm not mistaken, so from what I remember that means, that UIScene won't be available from that point on. Anybody...correct me, if I'm wrong ;)

[eAlex79]

If you look through Scaleform's site you'll see that integration is already finished and complete for UE3. Not DLLBind and stuff, really integrated, Kismet nodes etc..

[Makaze]

Correct, UIScene is being dropped and replaced completely by Scaleform. It's well past it's prime and sorely needed with either a revamp or replacement so thank goodness.

[vahidhatefi]

Please upload complete learning to use Scaleform in UDK For all
thanks for all

[ShawnBaxe]

Please upload complete learning to use Scaleform in UDK For all
thanks for all

Erm...did you read the entire thread? ;) There is no public build of UDK with Scaleform GFx integration at this point. That means, that there's no training material available on how to use UDK's GFx implementation. It has been stated, that we won'tget a UDK build with GFx implementation before May (or even later). I think it's better to wait a bit longer, so the devs have the chance to polish things up a bit and do some more testing. I'd rather like to have a 100% working subsystem with complete reference material (code), than some 98% finished stuff without well-commented code ( we want to understand how it works, don't we) :)

Please mates...before asking for tutorials etc...read this thread...completely...thanks :P

[ambershee]

To be clear, the Canvas and HUD classes are not going away. UIScene and all those associated classes will be going away.

Whilst I understand this completely, is there a reason the classes are being omitted from future builds? Leaving them in would be handy for legacy support, especially for users who may choose to 'jump up' between builds in future as their requirements change.

[Blade[UG]]

i hear the existence of those classes is fairly resource intensive...

[Phopojijo]

Just curious... is there anything in Scaleform's portfolio that will not be included?

... if their video package (Scaleform Video) is included... how will that play with BINK?

[John J]

The current UI system is resource intensive (for what it does) and the removal can save a good chunk of memory for licensees. Plus, for licensees, there wouldn't be any reason to use the old system so it would just sit there and take up needless resources while suffering from code rot.

Epic is very gracious to make the UDK, but at the end of the day, licensees are the ones they need to cater to so keeping something around just for UDK users doesn't make sense.


EDIT: This was in reply to Ambershee's question.... hit the wrong relpy button. :-)

[Blade[UG]]

also, at some point, a UDK project should really finalize their engine version, and stick to it.

[danimal']

So, not being familiar with Flash really, are there any existing editors out there I could create mock-up menu's with in preparation for actual implementation? Or do I need to just sit tight and use some official editor that will come with it? Sorry, it's a noobier question that I'd normally ask but I'm utterly unfamiliar with how Flash stuff is made.

[Wraiyth]

You mean support for UIScene? Well...the old UI system will eventually be removed and replaced by GFx if I'm not mistaken, so from what I remember that means, that UIScene won't be available from that point on. Anybody...correct me, if I'm wrong ;)
Na, I mean support for Scaleform after it gets implemented, not the UIScene stuff. I haven't looked at how they handle/update any other middleware. So the curiosity was whether Scaleform will continue to be supported and get updates as Scaleform releases them, or whether we are just limited to one version and it will not be updated.

[Blade[UG]]

I'm sure that it will stay current with whatever Scaleform has until it's implemented as much as Epic is going to implement it, and then I'd guess that they would probably have it remain at a stable point. Guess that entirely depends on Epic's license with the Scaleform people.

I'm dubious about Flash for a UI (as long as it just uses the Flash language, and not Adobe's Flash implementation, I guess it's better), but anything is better than UIScene

[Solid Snake]

Hmm, that could prove to be frustrating for commercial developers like myself then. I suppose that would mean in future I may have to build my own user interface system again.

[ambershee]

The current UI system is resource intensive (for what it does) and the removal can save a good chunk of memory for licensees. Plus, for licensees, there wouldn't be any reason to use the old system so it would just sit there and take up needless resources while suffering from code rot.

Epic is very gracious to make the UDK, but at the end of the day, licensees are the ones they need to cater to so keeping something around just for UDK users doesn't make sense.


EDIT: This was in reply to Ambershee's question.... hit the wrong relpy button. :-)


;27247615']also, at some point, a UDK project should really finalize their engine version, and stick to it.


While I agree to an extent, it's not uncommon for a licensee to jump between builds when a desireable and significant change is present in a newer build and would prove more difficult to integrate into their current build, than to integrate their own work into a newer build (case in example, when you've primarily been working within game mechanics and not fiddling with the engine functionality itself).

I strongly doubt that the UI is resource intensive, if you're not actually using it.

[HEGI]

The datastore system can be used with the GFx integration, but this certainly isn't required.

Nice. That would make alot of things easier, right now it seems like a big detour when using the datastore system.
I suppose scaleform can access script and config variables directly if the datastore system is not necessary ?

[razvanab]

Just curious... is there anything in Scaleform's portfolio that will not be included?

... if their video package (Scaleform Video) is included... how will that play with BINK?

i am more curious about Scaleform 3Di if that will be included

[John J]

I strongly doubt that the UI is resource intensive, if you're not actually using it.

You are right... I was thinking memory usage (It takes a fair amount, especially for consoles) and not necessarily resource intensive. My bad. :)

[marcusmattingly]

This is great news in my opinion! The UDK just seems to get better and better. Thank you Epic.

[Hboybowen]

will this include Scaleform 3d aswell...I am told the latest Scaleform version allows you to project your UI or HUD in a 3D setting making it more part of the world

[razvanab]

Great
Thank You !

[elmuerte]

will this include Scaleform 3d aswell...I am told the latest Scaleform version allows you to project your UI or HUD in a 3D setting making it more part of the world

iirc, yes it's the latest Scaleform GFx version.

[Entilzar]

Thanks Epic !
The more I look at UDK, the more it seems to me its the magical perfect tool for creating home-made video games ;)

[Shelke]

Wow~ Epic is working really hard on this! Go Epic! and thank you for giving us the oportunity to use UE3. it is great seeing the UDK evolve :D

[Mordt]

Best news ever I love it :)

[tegleg]

yo this is great news
the current uiscene is a total pain and quite rubbish tbh
i will be happy to see it go away
but replacing it with anything flash based is inviting problems, i have tons of experience with flash as2 and its very crashy, buggy and stupid
but still...
thanks epic, keep up the good work

[razvanab]

Are there any good Flash editor alternatives ?

[elmuerte]

but replacing it with anything flash based is inviting problems, i have tons of experience with flash as2 and its very crashy, buggy and stupid

Good thing it's not not Adobe Flash, but Scaleform Flash which is based on GameSWF.

[Luditemu6ici]

Awesome thats just what i needed thanks Epic for another great thing you do for the community you are the best:) can't wait!

[tegleg]

Good thing it's not not Adobe Flash, but Scaleform Flash which is based on GameSWF.

thats great!
looking forward to it

[Mordt]

yo this is great news
the current uiscene is a total pain and quite rubbish tbh
i will be happy to see it go away
but replacing it with anything flash based is inviting problems, i have tons of experience with flash as2 and its very crashy, buggy and stupid
but still...
thanks epic, keep up the good work

Ever played Lord of the Rings online? They use this and there UI is silky smooth.

[Blade[UG]]

Ever played Lord of the Rings online? They use this and there UI is silky smooth.

positive of that? i thought the LOTR client and DDO clients were identical .. or does DDO use it too?

[Entilzar]

Some games using Scaleform here : http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing
You'll see LOTRO in it :)

[adityagameprogrmer]

absolutely great news.
i would luv to have the ability to generate the smooth /silky( as some put it ) UI with the work-flow of flash. any thing that eases UI development is a definite worth it.it would be even better if the proposed scale form 4.0 ( action script 3.0 support ) will be integrated with UDK. it just opens up a whole lot of possibilities to some amazing UI development.

[Skalamondre]

This is great news!

Are there any experienced Scaleform users here? I'm curious to see if anyone could give us a basic description of the workflow?

[Shelke]

This is great news!

Are there any experienced Scaleform users here? I'm curious to see if anyone could give us a basic description of the workflow?

Now that sounds interesting! I hope there are tuts in the near future.

[musilowski]

Can you use the Canvas class and Scaleform GFx for a HUD both at the same time? Will they conflict? I presume the Canvas implementation is running before the Scaleform GFx flash elements?

Is there a WYSIWYG for GFx or can I (only) use pure code with it too?

[westclif]

there is a WYSIWYG

it's called adobe flash ;P

you usually do it with this program only with a few little changes inside the actionscript... so you can preview everything there too... like you do it then you build a normal flash scene...

[musilowski]

Haven't used Flash at all, I hope a WYSIWYG creates working solutions which operate perfectly. As you said, some code changes will most probably make it work fine. Is the Adobe editor free to use?

[westclif]

no its not free...

but some other free flash editor's should be out there... but i dont know if they support scaleform... i only used it with adobe =/

and from my little expierence with adobe flash + scaleform i could say i got a working menu + hud ready in a day (made many of the graphics before)

it's really easy to understand...

i got many tutorials and samples with scaleform and there was a really complex rpg menu build with only a few code snippets ready to use

the hardest thing for me was to get the information from my engine to the hud build with scaleform but if udk will have it implented as a middleware it should work easily too =)

[Steve Polge]

Canvas and Scaleform GFx elements can be mixed on your HUD easily.

[LennardF1989]

I suppose you can also work with pure AS3 (like with FlashDevelop)?

[westclif]

i doubt that...

if i remember right i had a plugin for adobe flash... with some specific changes and functions...

but that was around 7 months ago =/

so i could be wrong

[marcusmattingly]

Seems like this would be the way to go to create mini-games inside your UE3 game. Will that be possible?

[adityagameprogrmer]

@Steve
will we able able to load/unload flash swf into the game i.e the ones deployed on flash players with the help of scale form ?.
what will be the support for movie formats when scale form is integrated.
basically what level of integration can we expect to have with flash swf's .

[Steve Polge]

Scaleform supports AS 2.0 fully AFAIK, so you should be able to use almost any flash swf uisng AS 2.0 within the unreal engine. You'll need to write unrealscript to hook it up to your game, of course.

You certainly could use this to create 2D minigames within UE3.

[Brendan Iribe]

The latest version of Scaleform GFx 3.2 supports most Flash 8 AS2 functionality. The Unreal docs will outline all the details soon.

Later this year (Q4 2010), Scaleform GFx 4.0 will be officially released with initial Flash 10 AS3 support. It will have its limitations in terms of the latest Flash 10 and AS3 features, but each new release will continue to be more complete, similar to the way GFx v1.0 - v3.2 continued to support more Flash 8 AS2.

Scaleform will have alpha and beta versions of GFx 4.0 (AS3) available earlier, but it's Epic's decision on when and which version to integrate into UE3 and UDK. We normally recommend only using beta or final versions for shipping product.

Scaleform provides a separate integration compatible with UE3 source SDK (not UDK, because it's binary only), which is updated monthly to be compatible to the latest Scaleform GFx beta and final releases. The Scaleform integration supports additional components that are optional and not required for console game developers, but that some may be interested in. Again, it will be outlined in the Unreal docs soon.

So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 tools to publish to Flash 8 AS2 format to create stunning front end menus, high performance HUDs, even animated Flash textures on 3D surfaces.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=hud

Scaleform has also added 3Di (3D interface) rendering, which allows you to tilt and rotate any element in 3D using a simple set of ActionScript extensions. The current 3Di rendering via ActionScript is the same as Flash 10's native 3D, which will be supported in GFx 4.0.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=3di

There's even a new Scaleform AMP performance tool that can be used to profile Flash content running inside your Unreal game. Please keep in mind the tool is new and limited in functionality (and may have an issue or two), but we're working hard to make it as useful and powerful as possible. We're eager to hear your feedback on how to make it even better.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=amp

You can visit www.scaleform.com (http://www.scaleform.com) for more information and videos.

UE3 Source licensees and evaluators should register at www.scaleform.com/register (http://www.scaleform.com/register) to receive additional Flash/Scaleform support. We have many C++ and Flash experts on staff to help.

UDK developers will be supported through the UDN community.

We look forward to working with everyone!

-- Brendan
www.scaleform.com

[danimal']

Hawwwwwwwwwt. Really like/appreciate the vids, some of us aren't terribly familiar with the work flow for this, and it's a start in the right direction. When I saw the inventory floating in space in front of the character I nearly @#$@#'d my pants :)

[Mr Evil]

...Scaleform has also added 3Di (3D interface) rendering, which allows you to tilt and rotate any element in 3D using a simple set of ActionScript extensions...
Are those elements actually 3D, so that they look correct with 3D glasses or other 3D display? Non-3D HUD is a common complaint from users of such displays, and it would be worse if the HUD looked like it wasn't flat, but was displayed flat.


Hawwwwwwwwwt. Really like/appreciate the vids, some of us aren't terribly familiar with the work flow for this, and it's a start in the right direction. When I saw the inventory floating in space in front of the character I nearly @#$@#'d my pants :)
It looks really cool, but I hope people don't forget that it's usability first, prettiness second!

[Brendan Iribe]

Are those elements actually 3D, so that they look correct with 3D glasses or other 3D display? Non-3D HUD is a common complaint from users of such displays, and it would be worse if the HUD looked like it wasn't flat, but was displayed flat.

The 2D Flash elements are actually displayed in 3D (with full 3D transformations), so they can look correct in stereoscopic 3D. We're working closely with Epic and NVIDIA to ensure Scaleform 3Di supports stereo 3D glasses and displays. There will most likely be a bit tweaking and customization on the developers side, but nothing too difficult. The goal is for it to all just work right out-of-the-box as you'd expect and hope.

[danimal']

It looks really cool, but I hope people don't forget that it's usability first, prettiness second!

Usa-wha? :) Honestly, UI's matter so much for the professional appearance of a product, I think the inclusion of this (if used properly) adds a LOT to the potential "professionalism" achievable even by smaller teams with the UDK. Go Epic and go Scaleform, you rock.

[adityagameprogrmer]

@Danimal
+1 ^_^
@Brendan
Thanks for the info . The possibility of getting flash UI / games into the unreal engine is very exciting indeed. This is sure to Attract a large part of the flash community to unreal and Scaleform alike.

Am sure Epic will integrate GFx 4.0 (AS3) beta into UDK when it comes out they wouldn't want to miss out on the opportunity to enhance UDK and pull in more people to it.

[CreativeCoding]

Finally something my CS4 will do!

But, how will Actionscript and Unrealscript communicate?

Example:
A variable in kismet is 5.
Actionscript detects this and starts a level (or whatever else)

Or

Actionscript detects button press
Kismet starts a level!


Just a note too, if you guys are exporting your flash files into UDK just to convert to EXE, you best just upgrade to CS4. It will make a EXE file for you with your game.

[Blade[UG]]

Unfortunatly, there is no amount of polish that you can add to UT3's interface to make it useful, so even though they obviously re-wrote it, they used the original as a base, so it's really just polishing the proverbial.

As long as we can get data to display on screen in the new UI system without having to go through a bajillion hoops, I'm all for any kind of new system.

[TheFreeman]

This is an amazing thread, really made my day with this one!

So thanks go out to Epic and also to Scaleform for bringing us these tools! (Eventually) :D

[Ayalaskin]

Am excited about it, amazing.

[marcusmattingly]

I am also curious how Unrealscript and these AS2 Scaleform interfaces will interact. It sounds like right now UE3 and Scaleform interaction is at the binary level where you need a full license with source code. What's the plan here with the UDK I wonder?

[eAlex79]

On Scaleforms site they say script and kismet if I read and remember right, I don't know where that source license idea comes from..

[Blade[UG]]

I think that's probably talking about the "current state" of things, in which devs have already integrated Scaleform into the engine, but not talking about what's coming up with UDK.

[marcusmattingly]

@Blade, that's exactly what I meant. I meant the way Scaleform is used currently with UE3 (not UDK) is via the source code with a full license of UE3.

I was just wondering what they were planning for the interaction with the two (Scaleform and UDK) since UDK users do not have engine source code access.

I am definitely hoping for Unrealscript and kismet interaction.

[Nate Mitchell]

Hey everyone,

The Scaleform GFx - UnrealEngine integration allows developers to load, play and manipulate Flash content via UnrealScript and Kismet. GFx's Direct Access API, tightly integrated with UnrealScript, provides users a number of interfaces for interacting with Flash directly from their game, including:

Creating, accessing, and mutating any Flash element (MovieClips, Objects, 2D/3D positions and transformations, display information, data arrays, etc...)
Manipulating timeline animations using familiar GotoAndPlay/GotoAndStop functions
Creating, attaching, and removing MovieClips from the Stage
Invoking an ActionScript function from UnrealScript
Invoking an UnrealScript function from ActionScript

General information about the integration can be found at scaleform.com: http://www.scaleform.com/products/partners_ue3.

All of this functionality will be available to UDK users with the help of Epic. Documentation and codes samples for GFx and the GFx - UnrealEngine3 integration will be made available to all UDK users in the near future.

If you're curious to learn about who else is using GFx, check out: http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing


Cheers,

Nate
Scaleform Corporation

[Phopojijo]

Any word on which modules will be available for UDK developers?

Video, Clik, Lobby, IME, AMP, Audio?

[NikSha]

Flash 8 support for 3.5 and F10 for 4.0. So if we have Flash CS4 will be be able to use Flash 9 for UI? (I have yet to check Scaleform site.. the link was to Develop instead of scaleform).


EDIT: Err.. "So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 "

But nothing about F9.. :P

[foad_udk]

Scaleform what date? UDK May ?

[marcusmattingly]

Hey everyone,

The Scaleform GFx - UnrealEngine integration allows developers to load, play and manipulate Flash content via UnrealScript and Kismet. GFx's Direct Access API, tightly integrated with UnrealScript, provides users a number of interfaces for interacting with Flash directly from their game, including:

Creating, accessing, and mutating any Flash element (MovieClips, Objects, 2D/3D positions and transformations, display information, data arrays, etc...)
Manipulating timeline animations using familiar GotoAndPlay/GotoAndStop functions
Creating, attaching, and removing MovieClips from the Stage
Invoking an ActionScript function from UnrealScript
Invoking an UnrealScript function from ActionScript

General information about the integration can be found at scaleform.com: http://www.scaleform.com/products/partners_ue3.

All of this functionality will be available to UDK users with the help of Epic. Documentation and codes samples for GFx and the GFx - UnrealEngine3 integration will be made available to all UDK users in the near future.

If you're curious to learn about who else is using GFx, check out: http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing


Cheers,

Nate
Scaleform Corporation

Two words - FREAKIN AWESOME

[Piranhi]

Flash 8 support for 3.5 and F10 for 4.0. So if we have Flash CS4 will be be able to use Flash 9 for UI? (I have yet to check Scaleform site.. the link was to Develop instead of scaleform).


EDIT: Err.. "So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 "

But nothing about F9.. :P


There was no Flash 9, it went Flash 8, CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5.

You're probably thinking of Flashplayer 9. There is nothing different about the different Flash software versions apart from the tools available for you. The output options available include building for different versions of the flash player (that go upto 10) and different versions of Actionscript (2 and 3)

[StingReay]

... if their video package (Scaleform Video) is included... how will that play with BINK?
I'm wondering about this too. Scaleform Video is based on CRI Movie 2, which is a competitor to Bink owned by CRI MW. I would be fairly weird to have two different codecs in the same engine. :p

[Ayalaskin]

I love this tendency of making things for free to researching and non-commercial products. It trains people in the technology for free, the companies doesn't have to spend money in training programs, and it's product became more popular, and often sells more, since the users get a chance to start their own business with a top leading technolgies and only pay fees when they start to earning money .

[Prezadent]

Can this be used to create an ingame game, like Dooms Super Turkey Punch?

[IllpIll]

that's what's saying with the minigames.

[elmuerte]

Can this be used to create an ingame game, like Dooms Super Turkey Punch?

Of course, in fact various games have already used GFx to create mini games. As far as I know you can also render to a texture, thus really create the arcade cabinet as shown in Doom 3 instead of just showing an overlay with the mini game (as most games do).

[junkens]

well.. the formulation is a little bit off.
You would use flash to create games.
With scaleform you could implement them but a good thing is. The flash-dev community is booming since the last years(thanks to armorgames and some other flash-portal who are paying flash-devs good money for their games). So where is a chance that you just recruit a new uprising flash-dev and implement his/her games in the game.

[h3ndy]

how should people use the GFx if they own not even one Adobe product?
Will it be possible?

[junkens]

how should people use the GFx if they own not even one Adobe product?
Will it be possible?

what is that for a question. If you don't own flash..you can't use it. Canvas is still available so if you can't create it so you still can use the UI system which was used till now.

[elmuerte]

You don't need Adobe Flash, there are other tools available that will be able to create SWF files and allow you to compile ActionScript.
Of course most of them are not as "mature" as Adobe Flash.
But $700 for Adobe Flash Professional isn't that much.

See http://osflash.org/projects for an overview of various open source tools related to Flash.

[Blade[UG]]

Considering that the world at large is trying to kill off Flash (HTML 5, Apple, Microsoft, etc), I do question as to whether we'll see yet another complete re-write of the entire UI system in another year?

[Henrik]

I see it the opposite way. Many disagree strongly with Jobs anyway, and there are a ton of animators/designers who love the Flash app itself. It does many things easier than some other programs do. So even if Flash's use on the web deteriorated (which I don't really see happening to the degree these folks are trying to imply), Scaleform and its use in a game engine is not dependent on that at all. Are Adobe going to suddenly just kill off Flash because Apple is trying to say "HTML5 blah blah blah open technology blah blah".. pfft of course not, they will just push back and Scaleform is a significant thing to push with. Having Flash become the leading platform for creating UIs on the world's biggest games and engines is only going to make it even more ubiquitous and strengthen Adobe's position.

[elmuerte]

Going to HTML5+JavaScript from Flash is quite unrelated to the usage of Flash in GFx.

[Henrik]

That was my point as well:
So even if Flash's use on the web deteriorated (which I don't really see happening to the degree these folks are trying to imply), Scaleform and its use in a game engine is not dependent on that at all.

[Blade[UG]]

Sure, sure, it's not really related, in that it's an entirely different product, for different usage, just using the language. Sure, it's definitely going to be an improvement over the prior unreal engine UI systems, but I can't help but wonder if it's just going to be another subsystem that eventually gets tossed out, like the last 3 UIs..

[Hboybowen]

there is always the magic word...:D

[Henrik]

Technology improves. You have to keep up with it. Last 3 UI's? The main differences were between UE3 and UE2, Overall it stayed relatively steady over the course of what.. 10 years? The biggest change I think was UIScenes and that whole datastore system.. was very difficult for most people to figure out, especially given the lack of documentation. It was nothing familiar to anyone really. But I guess it's good that they tried something new. 10 years is a long time to stick to one system in the tech world. But Flash has done basically just that, because it is good.

Where could they theoretically go from here? Backwards only if they were to opt for something else - it would most certainly be more proprietary, unknown, and the number of skilled UI designers would drop to nearly nil. Have a hard time seeing it happening.

[Blade[UG]]

I would say that Flash has stuck around because it was the only way to do a lot of things on the web for quite some time, aside from Java, which had it's fair share of problems to begin with.. Personally, I'd much rather see something that is well integrated with Unrealscript, rather than jamming a new interface with a new language into it. But, that's just me. :) The UI system completely changed from UE1 to UE2 to UE3, and now a complete change again. Anyway, I expect we'll be good with this one for at least a year, so that's a good thing.

[ali rafaty]

yes.as westclif say.can we have trial version to make ui?

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah Blade[UG]'s got a point, most people leave out the little UE2->UE2.5 UI "upgrade" which wasnt so much of an upgrade but a rewrite of the older stuff that ran along side. It was a bigger mess then DataStores. The biggest problem DataStores have had is the lack of support from the commandlets, UPL, INI, INT n all that in 2kx could export those files from the default properties where in UE3 especially UT3 in the early days it was bugged to the ****house.

UIScenes, now Im finally getting into it and know enough about it isnt that bad. Its not exactly good either, I think half the problem is interaction/HUD/Canvas/UIScene are all interrelated but are different classes with different motives. Basically, theres already 2 or 3 systems all over the top of each other and they dont exactly all work together very well. The major issue I have with UIScenes has always been with automatically generating widgets based on variable types, this flash stuff "might" change that then again its always a possibility that it wont.

In saying that, Id like the engine to go oh he wants this variable (which is a boolean) on the UI, yeah sweet lets make it easier (so he doesnt have to define it 2, 3 times) and just whack some kind of UI connector (like tooltip meta data) there for "friendly" checkbox/spinner/etc display.

Ideally for a UI in a game, Id like my designers to be able to do their jobs entirely independent of programmers, I dont think that takes flash it does take a good set of widgets (which are in great demand, but hey adobe's interfaces rock (sorry apple ur not as brilliant as you think you are)) to build upon. As a designer, Id like to write as little code for UI's as possible, same goes for being a programmer. Its not that difficult, we use code generation all the time on the internet, for mobile display, removal of graphics, etc layout and functionality can be separated.

Nothing against scaleform, I have nothing against this move by Epic, its their choice. I dont think it was required though, it might take weight off Epic's shoulders and allow them to put development time where its needed most instead of into the UI but I dont think a great system was out of Epic's reach. While their UI systems always seem to be obsoleted all they needed was for one to be given a chance long enough, lets use flash as an example or java. Neither of those took 1 year or even 2, they took a long time to become a standard, using scaleform is going to help but Epic had the ability to pull off something that is in uscript better then using actionscript. The xml functionality of UE3 is still getting there isnt it?

Anyways just a few thoughts on the matter. All I see online is this big battle between this n that, yet very few people offering webapp/app creation IDE's deliver a decent set of widgets by default, they are all buggy, or set to standards you may not want to use. Im all for cohesive application interfaces, Im also for being able to customize my experience, advancements in clientside plugins such as greasemonkey or stylish... well I could go on all day. Basically, politics BLEH!

[elmuerte]

10 years is a long time to stick to one system in the tech world.

Not really. Most technologies used today are at least 10 years old. Often technology isn't considered usable until it hasn't reached the age of 5.


;27301211']The UI system completely changed from UE1 to UE2 to UE3, and now a complete change again. Anyway, I expect we'll be good with this one for at least a year, so that's a good thing.

That's because user interfaces are very difficult to do right. As far as I know nobody has ever managed to create a proper user interface.


If you give me six screens created by the hand of the most experienced of UI designers, I will find something in them which will hang him.

[strangelet]

any word on how much its gonna cost us to use this in a commercial release?

im not expecting it to be quite as cheap as the Bink deal you guys secured, but i hear that Scaleform is expensive to license (from the point of view of a skint indie dev anyway)


EDIT - found the answer to this a few pages back. GFx to be included in the UDK license?! thats very generous! cheers epic and scaleform!

OMFG EPIC! WHILE YOU'RE ON A ROLL, GO ASK WILL WRIGHT IF WE CAN HAVE HIS PROCEDURAL CREATURE CREATION TECH FROM SPORE! YOU CAN DOO EET!

[Henrik]

yes.as westclif say.can we have trial version to make ui?
There's a trial version of Adobe Flash. 30 days.

[gausswerks]

Just chiming in to say I'm pretty excited to try out the new implementation. Since I'm just coming in on UDK, this is a good time for a changeover--guess I won't be focusing any of my time building a UI on the current system :)

[Hboybowen]

actually if you get really pro at Scaleform Gfx you can get a job just doing that. So keep that in mind.I get and hear of tons of UI jobs

[toxicpanther]

http://www.develop-online.net/news/34537/Not-just-UE3-Scaleform-to-be-free-for-UDK
That means it is free for non-commercial use, and included in the UDK commercial license terms for commercial use.



can i use scaleform for commercial purposes if i buy the $100 udk license?

[IllpIll]

Yes you can use it for your commercial game.

[Brexer]

Sweet..

Now (just to be greedy and annoying) we just need Lightsprint (http://lightsprint.com/) or similar for better realtime lighting, and Umbra for sweet *beep* occlusion culling, though oc is already pretty nice..

Real time global lighting has something to wish for still though.. :p

[IllpIll]

Have you been using Lightmass?
if not then you should go read about it, That is Epic's Beast.

[Brexer]

Have you been using Lightmass?
if not then you should go read about it, That is Epic's Beast.

Sure have, but its not really "realtime" global lighting is it ?, last i checked it was lightmaps :P

Lightsprint (and few other sdks) is real time global illumination, for us who wish to use day/night cycles, tons of moving real time shadow objects and so on. :rolleyes:

[Hboybowen]

Sure have, but its not really "realtime" global lighting is it ?, last i checked it was lightmaps :P

Lightsprint (and few other sdks) is real time global illumination, for us who wish to use day/night cycles, tons of moving real time shadow objects and so on. :rolleyes:


yes Lightmass is good but if it was done in real time then no complaints here too

[elmuerte]

Can people please stop asking for additional middleware to be included for free in the UDK.

This thread is about Scaleform. So please stay on-topic.

[Brexer]

Can people please stop asking for additional middleware to be included for free in the UDK.

This thread is about Scaleform. So please stay on-topic.

Geez crybaby, you are not on topic too with that post aswell, it has nothing to do with scaleform, but rather people who are airing some idea's based on topic "type" of 3rd party middleware sdk's and complaining over them not being on topic.

Just ignoring it would have been alot easier for you (and us), but nooo, you have to sit and complain over a couple of post out of tons of post wich is on topic wich is the same as posting non topic related posts.

Basicly, your not better your self, isnt that somehow sad ? :o

Its like throwing a stone in a pond... see now im complaining over you complaining over us just putting out a quick idea for another 3rd party sdk out there wich would have ended there, and soon Epic dudes come yelling or deleting the post(s) and so on and so on...

[eAlex79]

UDK is full of possibilties yet people tend to dream about "more, more, more".

I second elmuerte's motion ;)

[Brexer]

UDK is full of possibilties yet people tend to dream about "more, more, more".

I second elmuerte's motion ;)

Okay, let me put it like this.

This scaleform thing is awesome as i said, and as i said, if UDK would have a good real time lighting system as i said earlier wich apparently is so bad for you guys, then it would be perfect in my eyes..

I can see, that its good to open a WHOLE new topic, just to say that in my oppinion:

"Scaleform in UDK = good"
"Scaleform AND a better real time lighting system = super good."

then just adding a simple reply since it IS ON TOPIC!!!!!, it just extends it a BIT, i can see how its worth crying about it and our wishes to see UDK become top dollar...

Edit: this is my last post on the subject, as i know im right, im not gonna spam my reason to anyone as im sure that would quickly become annoying to all sides, and complaining is not on topic :)

[eAlex79]

Yes Brexer, there is a lot of stuff that is super good if added. Yet switching from the informal to the emotional channel against elmuerte will not help you get it.

And I fear Epic will add what is on their agenda, certainly not what some dream of and some beg for, especially if those whishes come from people that do not deliver substance (with wich I don't want to say you or others here wouldn't or couldn't). I'm certain they do utterly interesting negotiations for all that middleware that comes with UDK.

You know that if you buy a source license that you almost get no middleware with it? You'd have to buy it seperatly.

So, that's really off topic and I'll stop.

[CreativeCoding]

You know what would be even better? I scaleform that reads my mind and creates my game in my vision PERFECTLY! Oh yeah, and all in 5 seconds. All for free...


I mean, really guys? Epic is busting their ass making this amazing game engine and all we want is more.

[Hboybowen]

You know what would be even better? I scaleform that reads my mind and creates my game in my vision PERFECTLY! Oh yeah, and all in 5 seconds. All for free...


I mean, really guys? Epic is busting their ass making this amazing game engine and all we want is more.


lol well thats how humans have always been...check your history book:D

[Rives]

Yeah, hell, why not waste a decade of hard work and release the UE3 source for free? Oh, and then offer professional support for each and every one of us.

[udk3]

Yeah, hell, why not waste a decade of hard work and release the UE3 source for free? Oh, and then offer professional support for each and every one of us.

open source ue3 :eek:

[Rives]

open source ue3 :eek:

Honestly, I'd shoot myself if that would happen. :P

[Hboybowen]

Honestly, I'd shoot myself if that would happen. :P

and I'd help lol...jk:D:D

[TheAgent]

what if i know flash but dont know how to code for flash? :[ will that crush my dreams?

[elmuerte]

what if i know flash but dont know how to code for flash? :[ will that crush my dreams?

Yes it will.
Unless you use that spell on yourself that will grant you the skill to learn.

[TheAgent]

fair enough, action script shouldnt be too hard, i learned a little bit of it a while back

[junkens]

fair enough, action script shouldnt be too hard, i learned a little bit of it a while back

if you already grasped unrealscript or c++ you won't have your problems with actionscript.. it's pretty simple. :D

[TheAgent]

littlle knowledge of C++ xD i have no interest in coding really, im just learning things as i go, im an artist really, but i learned some unreal script, just wish i had a coder buddy! :] either way scaleform looks amazgin from the videos i saw

[Entilzar]

"Always two, there are. No more, no less. A coder, and an artist."
;)

[MonsOlympus]

What if they happen to be one in the same, does that make more or less? :p

[Dregoloth]

What if they happen to be one in the same, does that make more or less? :p

I think the coder/artist is considered half/half and is obliged too find another of his or her kind :)

[TheAgent]

one could be both, but there always has to be another :} cant do everything alone.

[Mr Evil]

one could be both, but there always has to be another :} cant do everything alone.
There have been some amazing games created by individuals before (modern games, not like in the past when all you needed to do in addition to coding was draw a few sprites). It's rare for one person to be that talented and dedicated, but it can and has been done.

[TheAgent]

well i believe so too, i'm working on a game alone, its going pretty well, and i hope to finish this game too, didn't mean its not possible ;)

[Phylik]

This news sounds great but one question: Can I create my UIs using Scaleform without the need for any expensive programs ? (Sorry I have zero experience in such things)
If yes, would I be allowed to use them in a commercial game ?

[tyrone70]

http://osflash.org/open_source_flash_projects

You can try, but make sure you read the licenses agreement of the programs.

[elmuerte]

but make sure you read the licenses agreement of the programs.

Why? If it's true Open Source it does not limit the use of the programs.

[Makaze]

To make sure it's true Open Source...

[eAlex79]

*lmao*

*rofl*

[Psilocybe]

Also to make sure it's not an "infectious" open source license.

[elmuerte]

Also to make sure it's not an "infectious" open source license.

The FUD about Open Source/Free Software does not apply at all to usage of said software. Only EULAs put out by companies like Adobe and Microsoft limit actual usage of the software. (the EU is for "End User", Open Source/Free Software never addresses the end user, only distributers and developers).

Rule #1 in the Open Source/Free Software mind: users of the software should not be limited to using the software at all.

ps, the usual "infectious" bull**** is targeted at the GPL which requires any software that uses that GPL code to be also GPL licensed, and anything using a GPL library to be GPL compliant. If you don't like it? fine, then don't use that software in you programs. This really isn't any more different from a license put forth by a propriety vendor.

[Psilocybe]

Right, I was referring to the GPL. Most people don't bother looking at licensing things, though, if it says "Open Souce" on it. But you're right, it wouldn't matter for things like flash content created with an open source app, since it's not a derivative of the code base.

[Phylik]

IF something is licensed under the GPL you may use it for any purpose(commercial and non-commercial). You are just not allowed to sell the program itself.

[Mr Evil]

IF something is licensed under the GPL you may use it for any purpose(commercial and non-commercial). You are just not allowed to sell the program itself.
There's no reason why you can't sell a program licensed under the GPL.

[Phylik]

There's no reason why you can't sell a program licensed under the GPL.

Errrmmm.......

You are right :D

But there was something..... Was it that you must publish the source code ? :D

[Quanta]

Errrmmm.......

You are right :D

But there was something..... Was it that you must publish the source code ? :D

Only if you've modified or derived from GPL'd source code. If you're simply using the GPL'd program/library, then no, you don't need to publish source code.

[Hboybowen]

I hope its released tomorrow cuz Lost Series finally plus UDK Scaleform......Wonderful night

[TheAgent]

same here ive been dying for it

[Blade[UG]]

being able to read and write to txt files will have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your ability to design and implement a save and load system.

[Mr.Yeah]

And that's why I love UDK. Epic Games, you don't make just a free version of UE3 but you support UDK actively.

Thanks for that. I never saw something similar before. :D

[marcusmattingly]

I've never seen ANY company release ANY application every month and include enhancements and new features. Not to mention the tutorial videos, etc. It's unheard of. Thank you Epic.

[Froyok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijOx1QdLpcI&hd=1

Little demo by Epic.

[marcusmattingly]

So will Scaleform work with Flash CS3 Professional at all?

All of the UDK docs released today talk about CS4. Will I be required to upgrade to use it? Man, I hope not. That's a pricey upgrade.

[elmuerte]

Have you tried it? If not, try it.

[marcusmattingly]

Have you tried it? If not, try it.

No, I haven't tried it yet. I was just taking my first look at the docs and it kept specifically saying CS4 so I was wondering if I was out of luck.

I plan to give it a shot for sure.

[Baldtoast]

So will Scaleform work with Flash CS3 Professional at all?

All of the UDK docs released today talk about CS4. Will I be required to upgrade to use it? Man, I hope not. That's a pricey upgrade.
It seems to work fine for me and I use Flash 8, so I imagine it will work too with any version after that.

[Mr.Yeah]

So will Scaleform work with Flash CS3 Professional at all?Yes, it works.
So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 tools to publish to Flash 8 AS2 format to create stunning front end menus, high performance HUDs, even animated Flash textures on 3D surfaces.

[strangelet]

can we use GFX movies in materials?

[strangelet]

HAW i just knocked up my first GFX flash object and got it into ued inside 10 mins. seems to be pretty straightforward!

i note that in the documentation in the UDN it says to contact scaleform for *setting up* audio and video - and in the movie testing app it clearly states AUDIO AND VIDEO NOT SUPPORTED.

sorry to keep asking the same bent old questions, but what exactly IS included with the UDK implementation of GFX?

are the audio and video modules sold seperately? the chap from scaleform's post and videos implies that we're getting the full unlimited scaleform system, but simply limited to use with the udk...

[Alex_Depth]

i've noticed that scale form clobbers the regular UI method by default, with the result that my meticulously developed custom UI has turned into a series of floating doodads.

does anyone know how we get our "old" UI menus back?

[Hboybowen]

HAW i just knocked up my first GFX flash object and got it into ued inside 10 mins. seems to be pretty straightforward!

i note that in the documentation in the UDN it says to contact scaleform for *setting up* audio and video - and in the movie testing app it clearly states AUDIO AND VIDEO NOT SUPPORTED.

sorry to keep asking the same bent old questions, but what exactly IS included with the UDK implementation of GFX?

are the audio and video modules sold seperately? the chap from scaleform's post and videos implies that we're getting the full unlimited scaleform system, but simply limited to use with the udk...

well try contacting them see what happens

[strangelet]

im working on the assumption that theyre not keeping it a secret from epic. i may well have missed it in this thread.

[eAlex79]

Make calls to your UScript from ActionScript to have that play sound or videos as we are bound to Bink for videos. Audio and Video are not part of CLIK.. they promised just CLIK not the Video parts aso.

[Henrik]

I asked them about video functionality and they declined to even answer, figured as much that they wouldn't include it because of Bink.. so we're stuck with watermarks :rolleyes:

[NikSha]

Maybe we can use animated GIF's instead?


EDIT: I don't understand why Bink logo has to BE there. Even Epic has their logo shown at startup only. I mean they can just make us show a startup logo and a credits logo if they want. Showing annoying watermark is just a nice way to kill immersion for the player (which means they will only come to hate the name BINK).

[seenooh]

UDK developers who wish to use an interface based on the current UI system will no longer be able to upgrade to newer UDK builds.

:eek:

Very bad news... Why not keep it for those who are not interested in Scaleform? I'm doing a visualization project and I require a simple user interface... Why should I (or anyone) be forced to learn Flash and Actionscript to do simple stuff? I find that a bit disappointing.

[eAlex79]

You don't want to say that the UIscene stuff is easier then CLIK do you?

[Henrik]

Methinks I'm going to need to demystify this stuff in my next vid :P

[seenooh]

I never said anything about UIScene being easier than CLIK. Forcing me to buy Flash and learn Actionscript isn't feasible at the moment. Let us have both old and new UI System available. What's so wrong about that?

[Sparks]

Does anyone actually have access to ScaleForm? It doesn't seem modder friendly; you need to be in the industry to even get a trial.

Edit: Just read it's going to be included in a future UDK release. No mention of how much it will cost to license ScaleForm to be used in commercial UDK games.

[spooky_paul]

I'm also voting for keeping the old UIScene - When I heard that Scaleform GFx will replace UIScene I was psyched but that was before realizing that this solution constrains the developer to using Flash. The UDK is free, but Flash isn't. What about licensing S. GFx? Does it come under the same license as the rest of the UDK?

We were also discussing the Bink watermark issue the other day, It's rather disappointing that no matter how much work has been done into having a smooth transition between real-time rendering and pre-rendered video, because of legal matters the Bink logo pops into the game environment and scrambles the immersion.

[eAlex79]

Does anyone actually have access to ScaleForm? It doesn't seem modder friendly; you need to be in the industry to even get a trial.

Edit: Just read it's going to be included in a future UDK release. No mention of how much it will cost to license ScaleForm to be used in commercial UDK games.

Why don't you try to read? It is already in UDK in it is free for free games and included in the commercial license.

[Henrik]

It's already in the May release (out since Tuesday). Scaleform doesn't cost anything to use in a UDK game.

[Brendan Iribe]

http://www.develop-online.net/news/34537/Not-just-UE3-Scaleform-to-be-free-for-UDK
As mentioned in the press release, the Scaleform GFx UI system will be useable by UDK developers at no additional cost. That means it is free for non-commercial use, and included in the UDK commercial license terms for commercial use.


Just to clarify, UDK users do not pay any additional fees to use Scaleform for commercial or non-commercial projects. The Scaleform GFx license is included at ZERO cost for all UE3 and UDK based applications on all platforms supported by Epic.

The only additional cost is for Adobe Flash studio, which most professional or even semi-professional users should have as part of the Adobe Creative Suite, which also includes popular tools like Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, and Premier. Adobe offers discounted academic versions (http://www.adobe.com/education/students/) and there are many other discounted resellers online.

There are alternative less expensive Flash authoring tools, such as Sothink SWF Quicker at roughly $85:
http://www.sothink.com/product/swfquicker

However, Scaleform only provides official support for content produced by the Adobe Flash toolset. That's not to say tools like Sothink won't work, but they are not officially supported.

Hope this helps!

-- Brendan

[Brendan Iribe]

It's already in the May release (out since Tuesday). Scaleform doesn't cost anything to use in a UDK game. But it's not the full version of it.

Ultimately, it's up to Epic to decide how much of Scaleform GFx SDK to include in UE3 Source and UDK, but it is the full version.

Scaleform GFx (http://www.scaleform.com/products/gfx) contains:
* GFx runtime Flash player with 3Di rendering (Flash 8 now, Flash 10 coming soon)
* CLIK Flash UI framework
* AMP profiler for performance and memory
* Game UI samples - HUD, menu, 3D inventory, loading screen...
* And many docs, videos, and other demos

UE3 Source and UDK also include the Scaleform IME (http://www.scaleform.com/products/ime) add-on for Asian chat support, which has been used in a many high profile PC games
http://www.reddit.com/...starcraft_ii_uses_it (http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b41w1/flash_is_not_dead_starcraft_ii_uses_it)

Our other product, Scaleform Video (http://www.scaleform.com/products/video), is not included in the UE3/UDK bundle, but it is available as a separate add-on for UE3 Source licensees that want integrated Flash Video support. Many prominent game studios are now adopting Scaleform Video including teams such as Rocksteady Studios for Batman Arkham Asylum 2.

NOTE: Scaleform Video is not available to UDK users, since the UDK is a pre-built binary runtime.

UE3 Source licensees that are interested in Scaleform Video should contact Scaleform directly at: sales@scaleform.com.

-- Brendan

[Henrik]

Thanks for clearing that up about the video stuff!

[Zomy]

I don't get it XD.
When i click on "Scaleform CLIK.mxp" it doesn't install the extension, i have Flash CS3.

[marcusmattingly]

I don't get it XD.
When i click on "Scaleform CLIK.mxp" it doesn't install the extension, i have Flash CS3.

I have Flash CS3 and I followed the instructions in the UDK Scaleform doc and it installed and worked just fine for me.

I am pretty excited. The UI possibilities seem endless to me now. That being said, I am pretty rusty on Flash ( I am more comfortable with AS3), so it's gonna take me some time.

[Brendan Iribe]

Quick support update:

Scaleform and Flash support will be provided by the community through the UDK forums and UDN online docs, samples, videos. We're working closely with Epic to ensure the best support possible. Please be patient as we ramp up the UDN content. Lots more is on the way.

Commercial developers may be interested in Scaleform's Premium Support, which is available for an additional fee directly from Scaleform and includes:

* Access to the Scaleform dev site - latest Scaleform docs, samples, videos
* Direct email and phone support with Scaleform senior engineers
* Private forums managed and responded to by Scaleform senior engineers and other commercial game developers

Exclusive to UE3 Source licensees:

* Access to the Scaleform UE3 Integration Kit which is always compatible with the latest version of Scaleform GFx, as well as different versions of UE3 in case the developer wants to freeze on a specific UE3 build but still take updates from Scaleform.
* Immediate code fixes for critical Scaleform GFx problems and/or feature requests.
* Optional Scaleform Video add-on

Most UDK developers should not need the Premium Support, however, we wanted to make sure you know it's available before you start emailing us for access to the Scaleform dev site and technical support questions.

To inquire about Scaleform Premium Support, please email sales@scaleform.com.

We look forward to seeing what the UDK community creates.

-- Brendan

[Psilocybe]

This means that people unwilling or unable to pay the fee will not be able to register on the dev portion of the Scaleform site? If this is the case, how much is this fee? The reason I ask is that free and open documentation seems a bit lacking right now, and I think most people are going to need some additional tutorials/examples to get started creating HUDs and UIs with Scaleform.

[Brendan Iribe]

The reason I ask is that free and open documentation seems a bit lacking right now, and I think most people are going to need some additional tutorials/examples to get started creating HUDs and UIs with Scaleform.


Quick support update:
Scaleform and Flash support will be provided by the community through the UDK forums and UDN online docs, samples, videos. We're working closely with Epic to ensure the best support possible.


As I mentioned, the UDN Scaleform docs and samples are mostly not online yet, the majority of content in the Scaleform dev site will be available as part of the UDK/UDN over time. We are working with Epic to customize it for the Unreal workflow, so it's clean and straightforward. We're also working with Epic on a complete UDK Game UI sample set that demonstrates all the core game UI parts.


Please be patient as we ramp up the UDN content. Lots more is on the way.

[Psilocybe]

Well, that sounds absolutely smashing, I look forward to more documentation!

[KY2K]

I must say im truely happy with scaleform, i set up CS3 yesterday and have been stuck in it ever since.

Problem is everyone has gotten used to UIscenes which will soon be redundent, im ok because i've worked alot in flash and (luckily) own a copy but what about the peeps who cant get access to flash?

Do you think were going to see any input from Epic on this topic?

[Psilocybe]

Wow, I just put in a custom crosshair, and I gotta say this is so much easier than UIScene. Major improvement EPIC!

[Blade[UG]]

I must say im truely happy with scaleform, i set up CS3 yesterday and have been stuck in it ever since.

Problem is everyone has gotten used to UIscenes which will soon be redundent, im ok because i've worked alot in flash and (luckily) own a copy but what about the peeps who cant get access to flash?

Do you think were going to see any input from Epic on this topic?

use FlashDesign or something like that

[Kaldrick]

FlashDesign is only a script editor. There is no freeware WYSIWYG or graphic editor of Flash at all, atm.

BTW, where can I see that cool, 3d inventory?

[gegebel]

hit F10 to open inventory in a game

[Brexer]

I must say im truely happy with scaleform, i set up CS3 yesterday and have been stuck in it ever since.

Problem is everyone has gotten used to UIscenes which will soon be redundent, im ok because i've worked alot in flash and (luckily) own a copy but what about the peeps who cant get access to flash?

Do you think were going to see any input from Epic on this topic?

You can use flash for free for a 30 days trial..

If you a academic user, flash is fairly cheap ($139.95) http://www.academicsuperstore.com/products/Adobe/Flash or http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html

Im unsure if programs like this would work.. (49$ each)
http://www.koolmoves.com/index.html or http://www.coffeecup.com/firestarter/

Well, just saying, there usually is options, surf around..

[Shelke]

Quick support update:

Scaleform and Flash support will be provided by the community through the UDK forums and UDN online docs, samples, videos. We're working closely with Epic to ensure the best support possible. Please be patient as we ramp up the UDN content. Lots more is on the way.

Commercial developers may be interested in Scaleform's Premium Support, which is available for an additional fee directly from Scaleform and includes:

* Access to the Scaleform dev site - latest Scaleform docs, samples, videos
* Direct email and phone support with Scaleform senior engineers
* Private forums managed and responded to by Scaleform senior engineers and other commercial game developers

Exclusive to UE3 Source licensees:

* Access to the Scaleform UE3 Integration Kit which is always compatible with the latest version of Scaleform GFx, as well as different versions of UE3 in case the developer wants to freeze on a specific UE3 build but still take updates from Scaleform.
* Immediate code fixes for critical Scaleform GFx problems and/or feature requests.
* Optional Scaleform Video add-on

Most UDK developers should not need the Premium Support, however, we wanted to make sure you know it's available before you start emailing us for access to the Scaleform dev site and technical support questions.

To inquire about Scaleform Premium Support, please email sales@scaleform.com.

We look forward to seeing what the UDK community creates.

-- Brendan

This is absolutly fantastic! :D

[KY2K]

i dont need the options i have it :D but surely this would prompt people to take the dark route and *COUGH* torrent *COUGH* Flashdesign is all well and good but it is only a script editor from what i know.

I just find it funny that Epic released the UDK for free after Unity went free with an Indie license, and now your either having to pay out money again or take an not so great route, dont get me wrong i think Epic have every right to do this but surely they should hang onto UIscenes for a little bit longer to see THEIR options for their users?

[eAlex79]

Well you don't have to use CS5 Extended right? As of now CLIK uses Flash 8 format and AS2 so go get some old but cheap release of MM Flash or older Adobe tools.. sometimes I think people aren't really inventive..

[elmuerte]

I just find it funny that Epic released the UDK for free after Unity went free with an Indie license, and now your either having to pay out money again or take an not so great route, dont get me wrong i think Epic have every right to do this but surely they should hang onto UIscenes for a little bit longer to see THEIR options for their users?

Let me burst that bubble and say that Epic was working on the UDK months before Unity even announced they were going to release a gratis version.

[danimal']

I just find it funny that Epic released the UDK for free after Unity went free with an Indie license, and now your either having to pay out money again or take an not so great route

Yes, because Epic will now make money off of people buying Adobe Flash, those evil, dastardly folks at Epic! Clearly a bait and switch scam meant to drain us of money and line the pockets of Epic employees! [/sarcasm]

You now have the ability to create truly modern/professional interfaces that no indie dev in their right mind should typically be able to without putting down some SERIOUS dough. But by all means, go use that *other* engine in all it's freeness (and not so free editions). P.S. there are free flash alternatives out there, go use google and/or look at the thread in this very forum on the subject.

[musilowski]

Can I create these Flash menus without a WYSIWYG (Adobe Flash Editor?)? Can pure programming (ActionScript?) be used like Unrealscript is right now?

[Hboybowen]

well game development is free if you do all the work yo still have to pay someone...there is always a middleman in any industry

[Phylik]

Pretty hard to find programs which work to create a pipeline if you don´t know what you need^^

So: SWF files are the graphical assets which we need (pictures). Any interaction is controlled through actionscript. Actionscript is called from unrealscript. So we need a Actionscript Editor(FlashDevelop for Example) and something which convertes SWF images.
Is this correct so far ? :D

[KY2K]

its the way of the world getting something for free then having to pay for the extras :D and yes elmuerte my mistake i was a little tired when i wrote that comment epic where gunning UDK first but thats not the point.

Anyway its great we have some new gizmo's to play with and im one of the lucky buggers out there to have flash, get on Epic you really are making headway with UDK and im always glad to see the next release.

Now do my XNA account a favour and add xbox 360 support ;)

[elmuerte]

Can I create these Flash menus without a WYSIWYG (Adobe Flash Editor?)? Can pure programming (ActionScript?) be used like Unrealscript is right now?

I'm quite sure you should be able to.

[KY2K]

You now have the ability to create truly modern/professional interfaces that no indie dev in their right mind should typically be able to without putting down some SERIOUS dough. But by all means, go use that *other* engine in all it's freeness (and not so free editions). P.S. there are free flash alternatives out there, go use google and/or look at the thread in this very forum on the subject.

Very true :) UDK wipes the floor of many indie engines out there, alot of people use unity on my course and only 2 or 3 of us using UDK which is a damn shame, Before we would only dream of making games looking this good but now we can its awesome :D yeah it might take awhile to get used to everything but in the long run your going to have way better results and who knows mayby even get noticed.

LONG LIVE UDK!!!

[Henrik]

I have finished the first tutorial video in a planned series about making GUIs with Scaleform. I created a menu system and implemented it as my front end in UDK. In this intro I explain how I accomplished this in just a matter of hours, and explain the overall workflow. Over subsequent vids I will show you how you can get a functional menu up and running in even less time, even under an hour - then I will get into other things like CLIK, etc. Read a full description on the video page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtDko9ujCYM

[twopounder]

Are there currently any plans to include Scaleform Video or Lobby at a later date?

[Blade[UG]]

reasons why text is better than video -- i've spent 30 minutes now trying to figure out what i've done incorrectly in this tutorial, versus 20 spent actually doing it.

[Henrik]

Blade: I understand, but there are advantages to using video as well, you get a much better visual of what I'm doing, some people prefer it, and not to mention it's far easier for me as a lesson publisher to make them visible to an audience (some 750ish subscribers see them on their youtube homepage for instance).

[Phylik]

I am one of those who prefer to videos :D

Thanks for the Tutorial btw. :)

[Blade[UG]]

A transcript with links that go directly to specific parts of it would be awesome. Have no idea if Youtube is capable of that or not.

[Henrik]

It is possible yes. I'll take it into consideration!

[Blade[UG]]

or even a summary with clickable links to the major parts, as a transcription would probably take a ridiculous amount of time, i'd guess .. i spent a lot of time tracing backwards until i found where my mis-click in Flash was (i'd accidentally managed to assign the on push to the entire layer rather than the button in the layer.. didn't notice the compilation errors, because i am totally not at all familiar with flash .. that menu button tutorial was the first thing i've -ever- done in flash)

[eAlex79]

If I make such videos I write some text before I start recording my voice. Otherwise I forget too much.

[Henrik]

I did so, but in a notebook. I don't plan on transcribing it to the pc, but I can insert chapter links in the description of the video so you can skip to specific parts at any time.

[Blade[UG]]

That would be a fantastic help :)

[Deliverance6]

im not sure if im understanding this correctally or not.

does this mean we can use the current Scaleform integration with UDK to release free games (such as a 2d platformer, distributed for free thru the internet using a scaleform HuD/Invent made in flash) or does it mean, if i wanted to do that id have to buy a dev liscece from those cheeky guys at scaleform

[rekarrekar]

Scaleform is a way to integrate flash into the game. Many games use it for the GUI, much like Borderlands did.

[Deliverance6]

aye i understand that, but what i mean is, if i use a *.swf file as my Invent screen or HuD, do i then need to pay the guys who created the integration, or pay epic an additional fee, or, if the games released for free do i pay nothing

[zoltanjr]

The Scaleform GFx license is included at no cost for all UE3 licensees and UDK users (both commercial and non-commercial).

What's Included:

* GFx runtime player with 3Di rendering (Flash 8 currently supported, Flash 10 coming soon)
* CLIK Flash UI Framework
* Scaleform IME for Asian language chat support
* AMP profiler for performance and memory
* Game UI samples - HUD, menu, 3d inventory, and loading screen
* Docs, videos, and demos

What's NOT Included:

* Scaleform Video is NOT included with UE3 and UDK, but is available upon request for UE3 source licensees that would like integrated Flash Video support. Licensees that are interested in Scaleform Video should contact Scaleform directly at sales@scaleform.com. Note that Scaleform Video is not available to UDK users, since the UDK is a pre-built binary runtime.
* Content authoring tools. You will need some method of authoring Adobe Flash compatible content. Scaleform provides official support for content produced by the Adobe Flash toolset, which is included as part of the Adobe Creative Suite. Alternative tools, such as Sothink SWF Quicker, are also available, but are not officially supported by Scaleform.

[ZingGusto]

Still getting used to Scaleform but it is awesome! Glad to see that udk is always on top of the next awesome thing and very happy to see the Scaleform guys join the team :D

[Hboybowen]

who said this:


My understanding of the first post concerning implementation of the scaleform

is that even though its free to use, WE CAN NOT use it in commercial games

UNLESS we buy an Epic license. If this is the case, then the general principle of

the 25% royalty pay only AFTER $5000 has been made no longer exists

UNLESS you own a license - in other words, no indie can create commercial

games without spending money [that they probably don't have] on an Epic

license. I really hope that I am wrong, because the very idea itself is a

complete 180 degree turn from the hope that Epic has instilled in many indie

developers. This is not to say that free usage of the engine is a great prospect

for creating a game for your portfolio, but if my understanding is correct, I

would be very disappointed with Epic. I hope that having just woke up has

impaired my ability to comprehend what was written, and that I am dead wrong.

-Stephen

i just got email about it i dont see it lmfao

[TOP-Proto]

i believe you have a cut down version of the scaleform ui with the udk.

what you do not get is the ability to embed movie files into your flash. I think this is for licensees only. but im not epic so read up on it :)

[C_Haney]

I'm using the tutorial that was linked from the forums here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDcadHjQyFY
the needed files apparently do not come with the UDK version of Scaleform GFx. You have to buy the full GFx Click program to get them. How lame is that. I don't think it is right that companies claim a products is free but don't bother to mention you have to buy add-ons to gain full functionality (after you installed it) thats why people still use the pirate bay.

[Blade[UG]]

Looks like they are there for me ... Which files are you referring to?

[C_Haney]

@Blade

I'm using the Nov 2010 version there is no C:UDK/UDK-2010-11/Binaries/GFX/[U]resources folder or any files listed in said video. So i am forced to assume that the folder and files only come in a full install of Scaleforms GFx.

What version are you using Blade[UG] or please list the location of where you accessed the files. thank you

[Blade[UG]]

I didn't go through the whole video, assumed it was the same thing as the document that tells how to configure things. Which files are you looking for? And is that video specifically for UDK, or is it scaleform in general?

[seamanmur]

c:\UDK\UDK-2010-08\Development\Flash\CLIK\tutorial\

[Matt Doyle]

Those CLIK videos are old, and were made for non UDK users. CLIK is all there for UDK in the directory seamanmur mentioned above this post.

[Chathura]

please pardon me if i missed this.. i skipped some replys because the thread is too long...
can someone tell me is the Scaleform Gfx is free for non-commercial use... for creating freely distributed games...

thank you..

[piotrO]

@Chatura

Yes it's free for both non-commercial and commercial (after paying Epic $99 +25% royalties) use.

[Chathura]

thank you very much.. :)