UDK for MacOS X

[Dmikis]

Is there any information about UDK for Mac? Will it be released?

[tomluoc]

May be there will be no release bcoz i see the .Net framework is required to setup UDK here. I like your thought by the way!

[Dmikis]

I think it isn't a big problem for porting: EpicGames announced Mac version of UT3 in 2007 (information from Wikipedia and maclife.com), but now I can't find any info about this so you seem to be right. But does exist any official info?

[Shambler]

As said, there are a number of things relying on .NET, so that makes it unlikely.
However, I think it's just the editor which relies on .NET so much, so Mac/Linux versions of the base engine/runtime might still be possible.

[Jazz]

As far as I know Unreal Editor is mostly based on wxWidgets, there is a Linux/Mac version of toolkit available. I don't know, where .NET is used in UDK, but there is also mono project for Mac/Linux with poor .NET compatibility

Still, all this story around Mac/Linux version of UT3 is frightening and I'm afraid we are not getting UDK before UT3 :)

[MadGrenadier]

Yea, I'm still waiting on that linux port of UT3 :/

Not holding my breath anymore though

[badkangaroo]

Actually, http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono is an opensource .Net development framework for linux osX and windows. It's a bit behind where epic needs it to be, but I dont think that .net is the main reason for not porting the engine.

[robin1232]

no, actually, the main reason why is because the pc version runs on DirectX (9.0c) and mac can only handle OpenGL, macsoft (macsoftgames.com) is porting, but they're also still working on an age of empires III expansion (like anyone is going to buy that...).

anyway, I think that its gonna be released as soon as UT3 and Gears of War come for mac, but thats probably gonna take a long, long time.

[Jazz]

no, actually, the main reason why is because the pc version runs on DirectX (9.0c) and mac can only handle OpenGL
PlayStation 3 version runs on OpenGL

Seems like you are not following Icculus with his news about Linux/Mac port.

Ryan "Icculus" C. Gordon already posted two screenshots with Unreal Tournament running on Linux and Mac, using mojoshader (translator for directx shader language, afaik UE3' render pipeline is fully based on shaders)

[robin1232]

PlayStation 3 version runs on OpenGL

Seems like you are not following Icculus with his news about Linux/Mac port.

Ryan "Icculus" C. Gordon already posted two screenshots with Unreal Tournament running on Linux and Mac, using mojoshader (translator for directx shader language, afaik UE3' render pipeline is fully based on shaders)

where can I find it then?
cant find anything at all on http://icculus.org/

[Dmikis]

There is a link to his mercurial repository: you can download mojo only form it (as i understand).

[Phenicks]

where can I find it then?
cant find anything at all on http://icculus.org/

http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/finger.pl?user=icculus&date=2008-09-18&time=06-38-30

I think Jazz meant to follow him on Twitter.

[Henrik]

Icculus took over 2 years to do many of his ports.. It's been exactly 2 with UT3 now, so you never know.

[Megam4n]

Well, I'm a mac user and would LOVE to have UDK run natively on my comp. I could use XP, or figure it out in Wine... but it would be nice to have it on OS X.

We have to wait ~2 years?

[Jazz]

We have to wait ~2 years?
Well, 2 years passed and Unreal Tournament 3 is not published yet, so no one knows :)

As for wine, Unreal Editor never worked good through it. I've tried to install UDK, but failed even on winetricks installation of framework.

[majorcrabs]

I would also like to express my interest in a max or linux udk, running it in parallels is almost impossible to use light mass haha

[Idsz]

Why do you want to run it in OSX? Don't really know if you have an Intel mac but if so, just use bootcamp. If you have a mac that could run UDK smoothly then you probably won't have any problems with running it on windows on your mac.

[thelaw]

Personally I prefer to develop on windows but would still like to the have the option to publish to OSX.

[Jazz]

Why do you want to run it in OSX? Don't really know if you have an Intel mac but if so, just use bootcamp.
Maybe because not everyone wants to keep windows installation for a single program?

[robin1232]

Why do you want to run it in OSX? Don't really know if you have an Intel mac but if so, just use bootcamp. If you have a mac that could run UDK smoothly then you probably won't have any problems with running it on windows on your mac.

because windows is the most unstable kernel there is, seriously, it crashes all the time.
twenty minutes after installing my xp bootcamp it crashed and required a reinstall.
now it runs pretty good, but it still crashes alot more than OS-X.

[tidu]

Why do you want to run it in OSX? Don't really know if you have an Intel mac but if so, just use bootcamp. If you have a mac that could run UDK smoothly then you probably won't have any problems with running it on windows on your mac.

Sorry to dig up an old thread here. I agree with your statement, it's easy enough to map/mod in boot camp, I did it with UT3. But I think OP might be onto something. Macs are gaining some marketshare, and it's possible "mac gaming," whatever it may be, could gain some traction. And I think if it were to start anywhere, it would be small, cheap (or free), fun homebrew games.

Autodesk recently ported Maya to Mac, and Photoshop's available, so there aren't many limitations to an artist working with a Mac UDK. I'll easily settle for boot camp, but I don't think a Mac UDK is so far fetched.

[zoltanjr]

Macs have become pretty much the norm for designers in the last 3 years, can't really figure out why i think its just because they look stylish and you know designers.

If i only used maya and photoshop it would probably prefer a mac, if it didn't cost 5x more then a build yourself PC, but until they get 3ds and the games running natively dual booting just gets annoying. I personally would prefer to run ubuntu by itself permenantly but since most games and lots of other software don't like it too much yet its just as bad as a mac. Hopefully in a couple of years it'l run everything windows 100% and then windows can go in the bin

[robin1232]

Sorry to dig up an old thread here. I agree with your statement, it's easy enough to map/mod in boot camp, I did it with UT3. But I think OP might be onto something. Macs are gaining some marketshare, and it's possible "mac gaming," whatever it may be, could gain some traction. And I think if it were to start anywhere, it would be small, cheap (or free), fun homebrew games.

Autodesk recently ported Maya to Mac, and Photoshop's available, so there aren't many limitations to an artist working with a Mac UDK. I'll easily settle for boot camp, but I don't think a Mac UDK is so far fetched.

actually, photoshop is more than available, it works better on mac than on windows.

as for the UDK, macsoft is working on an UT3 for mac port and Epic also announced Gears for mac.

so I think it might be coming along with the UT3 port.

[eAlex79]

Actually UDK uses WPF. I guess for parts of the editor. And WPF is not ported to any other OS..

And the Adobe Suite on Mac OS uses Carbon.. even CS 4. That's why they have Photoshop 64 on Windows x64 but not on Mac OS X 10.6. I love Mac OS and use it for anything I see it fit, but f.e. OpenGL is just slow on Mac OS. Got worse again with 10.6.

And as of today Mac's can run Windows nativly.. I doubt theyll spend time and money to port over UDK, just because the benefits/costs list is uneven.

Best bet is to dual boot your Mac with Win 7 and Mac OS. One for fun (and funwork) and one for (serious?) work. :p;)

[robin1232]

Actually UDK uses WPF. I guess for parts of the editor. And WPF is not ported to any other OS..

And the Adobe Suite on Mac OS uses Carbon.. even CS 4. That's why they have Photoshop 64 on Windows x64 but not on Mac OS X 10.6. I love Mac OS and use it for anything I see it fit, but f.e. OpenGL is just slow on Mac OS. Got worse again with 10.6.

And as of today Mac's can run Windows nativly.. I doubt theyll spend time and money to port over UDK, just because the benefits/costs list is uneven.

Best bet is to dual boot your Mac with Win 7 and Mac OS. One for fun (and funwork) and one for (serious?) work. :p;)

sigh...
http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=15395

[domox]

I know this is old news but... http://www.pcworld.com/article/185284/iphone_3gs_tames_unreal_engine_3.html So, aside from having to port tools, any work on at least being able to bake for the mac/iphone platform? I am intimate with the iPhone SDK and this is proof to me that it is not too much of a stretch to pull off. I have tremendous faith in Epic and am simply a frustrated dev who is going through UDK withdrawals.

Thanks :)

[TheOneandOnly]

Best bet is to dual boot your Mac with Win 7 and Mac OS. One for fun (and funwork) and one for (serious?) work. :p;)

But having a partitioned harddrive is a complete pain in the arse when you've already got all your other Mac-based design applications on the opposite part to the UDK. Personally I can just about get away with running the UDK in Windows under Parallels, but it would be much more efficient if I didn't have to.

I don't understand why Epic hasn't at least mentioned some sort of consideration of a Mac version of the UDK. After all, it can be used for more than just games, and Macs seem to be getting ever widening use in the entertainment industries. Having a dedicated Mac version would speed up quite a few people's production times, and maybe speed up the cash flow into Epic's pockets as a result.

[crapageddon]

I boot camp it. Currently running XP and have Maya on my PC side. I would love to get a Mac port of UDK to utilize my processors and full ram. Right now I cap out on the PC side at 4GB when I could have 8GB on my Mac side. Dual Quad cores are being underwhelmed as well. If Mac doesn't get on the wagon soon I may end up going back to PC exclusively. I bought a Mac because of the flexibility of having both OS's and while OSX kicks the crap out of windows - OSX can't run UDK. Not yet anyway.

I'm thinking of upgrading to vista on my BootCamp to utilize the 64 bitness. Any suggestions? I'm not going to 7 because I need Leopard to do that and Leopard I've heard nothing but horror stories about (for 3D users anyway).

[eAlex79]

Leopard? 10.5 has really good OpenGL support for the cards it supports, 10.6 is okay but worse then 10.6, but it's useable and I sure Apple is going to change that soon, and 10.4 is just plain bad at OpenGL.

Go for Snow Leopard and Windows 7. ;)

[robin1232]

Leopard? 10.5 has really good OpenGL support for the cards it supports, 10.6 is okay but worse then 10.6, but it's useable and I sure Apple is going to change that soon, and 10.4 is just plain bad at OpenGL.

Go for Snow Leopard and Windows 7. ;)

10.6 has native support for OpenCL.
and ofcourse DirectX is faster than OpenGL, but I hate the way that it has to reinstall every time you install a game...

seriously though, OpenCL can compute things on the GPU which can be really fast.
Linux supports it too, but I hope microsoft doesn't steal it (like with HTML 5, at least google contributed with a good example of how to use it).

[fungos]

10.6 has native support for OpenCL.
and ofcourse DirectX is faster than OpenGL, but I hate the way that it has to reinstall every time you install a game...

seriously though, OpenCL can compute things on the GPU which can be really fast.
Linux supports it too, but I hope microsoft doesn't steal it (like with HTML 5, at least google contributed with a good example of how to use it).

Well, just saying that "DirectX is faster than OpenGL" shows biased view at best, ignorance at worse.

You should complete that sentence with "on Windows platforms".
There is a nice and growing engine called Unigine (http://unigine.com) that has a nice benchmark feature, and :eek: amazingly, it run under Windows, MacOSX and Linux. Try it, and benchmark it under Windows and Linux(with NVidia driver) or MacOSX.

Here my OpenGL+Linux benchmark was a little better than Windows+DirectX! YES, TRY IT YOURSELF! But, Windows+OpenGL really sux as hell! This is not OpenGL fault I can say...

Anyway, there is not a reason (other than - I don't give a f*!#) that we haven't udk3 on MacOSX (if they already have an udk3 iPhone preview!) and Linux (if they already have an udk3 Palm webOS preview!).

UDK3 on iPhone: http://www.beyondunreal.com/view_story.php?id=13058
UDK3 on Palm webOS: http://www.techrockstar.com/2010/03/15/palms-webos-gets-unreal/

ps1.: I really want to play Mortal Online in a stable and decent platform like MacOSX or Linux.
ps2.: I have various friends that have Mac and want to play it too, and other unreal games but are stuck at WoW because it just runs under MacOSX.

[StingReay]

As said, there are a number of things relying on .NET, so that makes it unlikely.
However, I think it's just the editor which relies on .NET so much, so Mac/Linux versions of the base engine/runtime might still be possible.
It's not hard to optimise an app for Mono. Look at Unity for Mac, it uses Mono instead of .NET.

[VeliV]

Ignorance is a bliss when it comes to Mac vs. PC. I've been using both for some time now and I usually bootcamp to windows in order to play the latest games. Other than that, it's all OSX.

Why? Since I've never had important software crash in OS X :p On windows it tends to crash quite often, especially if you dont do clean install once in a while for the whole computer. Also, on OSX there are far fewer background processes going on, which means that I have the performance on the program that I am actually working with.

When it comes to graphics, there is no "DirectX only" features. For example, check MGS3 Snake Eater on PS2 console. It has all the shiny effects that MS used to sell Vista (DX10) to consumers. But still it has nothing to do with DirectX.

Same applies for Unreal. The shaders makes up most of what we see on the screen and the difference between the HLSL (DirectX) and GLSL (OpenGL) are quite minimal and can be easily converted to each other. After all, the hardware does the computing, not the language.

Same applies for .NET . The mono project is more than enough to handle most of .NET features.

The real question here is not which OS is better, since it comes down to users own preference, but more about if it's viable for Epic to make a Mac port of UDK. ATM, the answer is no, but even that might change in the future (whit more titles being released on the Mac as well).

It is not a matter of technological issues. It's a matter of money.

[Johnny Thunder]

Steam runs on a mac now so that may tip the balance of the computer gaming world, ideally for the better seeing as Mac and Linux share a lot in common.

[eAlex79]

What do MacOS X and Linux share alot then?

UDK uses WPF, WPF is not part of Mono, and it probably will not be.

[eXeC]

Ignorance is a bliss when it comes to Mac vs. PC. I've been using both for some time now and I usually bootcamp to windows in order to play the latest games. Other than that, it's all OSX.

Why? Since I've never had important software crash in OS X :p On windows it tends to crash quite often, especially if you dont do clean install once in a while for the whole computer. Also, on OSX there are far fewer background processes going on, which means that I have the performance on the program that I am actually working with.

When it comes to graphics, there is no "DirectX only" features. For example, check MGS3 Snake Eater on PS2 console. It has all the shiny effects that MS used to sell Vista (DX10) to consumers. But still it has nothing to do with DirectX.

Same applies for Unreal. The shaders makes up most of what we see on the screen and the difference between the HLSL (DirectX) and GLSL (OpenGL) are quite minimal and can be easily converted to each other. After all, the hardware does the computing, not the language.

Same applies for .NET . The mono project is more than enough to handle most of .NET features.

The real question here is not which OS is better, since it comes down to users own preference, but more about if it's viable for Epic to make a Mac port of UDK. ATM, the answer is no, but even that might change in the future (whit more titles being released on the Mac as well).

It is not a matter of technological issues. It's a matter of money.

Not to mention the amazing technology called tesselation that Microsoft claim is amazing and worth upgrading to Dx11 for. >_> OpenGL has been able to do tesselation since 2007. OpenGL just doesn't have a huge FUD campaign in their favour.

[Makaze]

Not entirely true. OpenGL implements a different version of tessellation that will not take advantage of the new tessellation hardware in upcoming cards. So DX11 really will have an advantage over OpenGL at release. Of course by the time those cards are widespread enough to matter I'm sure there will be an OpenGL extension out to support them. But it's simply not true that OpenGL has had DX11 tessellation since 2007.

[jpeg123]

i really do hate to open the thread but killing floor (if i'm not mistaken) is available for mac through steam. the game is built off of the unreal engine. so it is possible to port some of the games over to the mac. so the support is there but not for editor (from killing floor steam page) "Includes Windows-only SDK for the creation of new levels and mods". i think that the sdk for any unreal games are being worked on and should be available soon


http://store.steampowered.com/app/1250/ killing floor page

[JA53N]

Mass Effect and Bioshock are also on Mac, so the unreal engine must be capable of cooking the games to run on a Mac, just not running the editor on one, which is fair enough.

[UnrealmrK]

I am currently running UDK on a mac using boot camp.

[robin1232]

i really do hate to open the thread but killing floor (if i'm not mistaken) is available for mac through steam. the game is built off of the unreal engine. so it is possible to port some of the games over to the mac. so the support is there but not for editor (from killing floor steam page) "Includes Windows-only SDK for the creation of new levels and mods". i think that the sdk for any unreal games are being worked on and should be available soon


http://store.steampowered.com/app/1250/ killing floor page

where have you found that it's running on UE3? because I can't find it anywhere.

edit: it's not running on UE3, but on UE2.5

[robin1232]

What do MacOS X and Linux share alot then?

Kernel, Mac OSX was built on a Unix kernel and Linux was based of Unix as well.

only those retards at M$ thought it was a good idea to write their own kernel based of an entirely different system...

[jpeg123]

replying to the two above...

first...
i hadnt realized that killing floor was 2.5 it looks like 3.
Second....
OSX is based off of darwin which is based off of bsd which is based off of unix, one giant chain. Also microsoft went with the popular (dos) as their os, which NT was built off of. but there is a dark secret that microsoft doesnt want you to know....
at one point microsoft used a unix based os which was called xenix wiki it. and sorry for the small history lesson :D. but in my opinion microsoft should stay the same, if they went to unix i would have viruses for my mac instead, and i wouldnt want that.

[TheD3vilHimself]

No, OS X is based on NeXT and BSD. BSD is NOT based on Linux, it predates it by many years and is actually faithful to the official UNIX spec.

Microsoft made their own Kernel not because of idiocy but because it's their property, regardless of how poorly built it is they can license it without the need for redistributing changes or the source.

Porting UDK I bet would be a challenge, even with mono taking care of the .NET part of the equation, I would really like an official "we're looking into it" or a "no way!" from Epic just to see if I'm deleting my windows partition on my mac or if it'll keep on being the only reason that I boot to windows.

Steam on Mac was an obstacle and now just the UDK remains one for me. I would love to dump Microsoft from my machine all together.

[zane85]

The Unreal engine has always supported multiple graphics piplelines.

The engine was originally designed for Glide.

It has always had support for Glide, OpenGL, Direct3D (which is a part of DirectX, it isn't DirectX) and a software renderer.

But they dropped support of Glide and the software renderer. And OpenGL is usually a bit be hide, as they focus on Direct3D.

One of the key problems is that MacOS still does not support OpenGL 3.0 completely. I believe its still missing some shader extensions. And supports only 1.2 shaders only. This is a serious limitation for MacOS and game development. And means porting over more advanced features to MacOS isn't going to happen.

OpenGL 3.0 got released in 2008. OpenGL 3.3 just got released and so did OpenGL 4.0.

MacOS is way be hide. So I wouldn't expect too much.

As for the person who said DirectX is faster than OpenGL has no idea what OpenGL and Direct3D is. OpenGL for a long time was faster than Direct3D, it wasn't till about Direct3D version 7 that it could almost match the speed of OpenGL. Now it's pretty much neck and neck.

I personally think a very well written OpenGL renderer will beat a very well written Direct3D one today.

[eAlex79]

Kernel, Mac OSX was built on a Unix kernel and Linux was based of Unix as well.

only those retards at M$ thought it was a good idea to write their own kernel based of an entirely different system...

Actually they share only the GNU toolset and some other opensource stuff. Neither the UI nor the Kernel are in any way related other then trying to conform to UNIX specs (or *really* descend from them as BSD).

Linux was written from scratch. :) By Linux Torwalds.. ;)

And I think the OpenGL stuff in MacOS X is just not working right. It was okay in later 10.5 releases and it got bad again with 10.6. I don't see it getting friendlier either.

And then if Apple *ever!* gets the idea that I'd let them tell me what I run or not run on my Hardware like it does with mobile stuff (iPhone 4. 1.000,00 EUR but no porn (like the porn one sees when trying to buy perfectly normal sunday churchgoing clothing online). lol), I burn my Macs and never look back.

[Oblivion2500]

I really like the idea too! I saw how UT3 was suppose to come out like UT2004 and UT99 for mac.

Company really should start thinking about putting EVERYTHING that is only for windows into mac OS x. Because we all know that windows is a dying OS, all apple need to do to destroy windows is to get all the games for PC into mac (WITH MODDING SUPPORT AND EDITOR TOO!!!) and make a game console too...BUT ANYWAY...yes Epic should make UDK for mac os x. I would have better graphics because of OpenGL and more stable.

[rounce]

...blah blah blah incoherent nonsense blah blah...BUT ANYWAY...yes Epic should make UDK for mac os x. I would have better graphics because of OpenGL and more stable.

How exactly do you come to this conclusion that OpenGL = better graphics/stability? I'd like to know your reasoning - if any - as I fail to see a clear path to this point of thought.


Not entirely true. OpenGL implements a different version of tessellation that will not take advantage of the new tessellation hardware in upcoming cards. So DX11 really will have an advantage over OpenGL at release. Of course by the time those cards are widespread enough to matter I'm sure there will be an OpenGL extension out to support them. But it's simply not true that OpenGL has had DX11 tessellation since 2007.

+1 to this post! Just like to add that DX has supported tesellation as long as it's supported vertex shaders as a rudimentary tesselation has been possible in the vertex shader alone.

[Oblivion2500]

Well, it not just OpenGL is more stable. It actually has nothing to do with the renderer. It that windows is so buggy and outdated even in windows 7. Ever since the Valve games came out for mac. They were more stable and had better graphic support. We all have to accept the fact that windows does suck, but we use it more than mac because it has everything. But that does not mean that windows is great. Microsoft has long bad history with technology. Just imaging if mac also had everything that windows have, but better and more stable, no viruses. Which would you choose??? hmmm.

[darthviper107]

Since when were any games running better on Mac?

[Oblivion2500]

I have Unreal Tournament 2004 for windows and mac. both fully update with newest patch. The mac os x runs more fps like 20 more. I have a iMac with boot camp windows 7 64-bit . Same for Blizzard games.

[JonTerp]

I have Unreal Tournament 2004 for windows and mac. both fully update with newest patch. The mac os x runs more fps like 20 more. I have a iMac with boot camp windows 7 64-bit . Same for Blizzard games.

I hope you are aware that boot camp has to emulate windows, so that's a huge load on the CPU, thus causing the 20 FPS drop.

You're constant rantings about how OSX is vastly superior to Windows is uninformed and in most cases just plain wrong.

Both platforms have their pros and cons, and are geared toward different audiences and users. So this argument is not only childish, but moot as well.

When Epic feels the audience for OSX is large enough to spend time and money on a port, they will do it. And with steam on the Mac I doubt you'll have to wait long.

[Oblivion2500]

man, I wish there will be a computer than will kill windows, mac, and linux someday...I run about 80 fps on UT3, 260 fps for UT2004 on windows. So I don't know what you are talking about where I lose 20 fps. If you don't have a mac, then that just sound unprofessional...On the mac for UT2004 I got 40 fps more (300 fps).

[rounce]

Seriously dude, you're already looking an arse. You really sound like you have absolutely no idea what you're on about! In addition you didn't even read the reply to your previous ill informed post propperly.

The fact that you don't even realise that Windows has the largest range of hardware support out of any OS today, really says something about how little you know compared to what you think you do! Ever tried to install OS X on non Apple hardware? I have, and believe me, for anything than analogs of Apple supported hardware compatibility is patchy at best!


man, I wish there will be a computer than will kill windows, mac, and linux someday...blah blah more incoherent nonsense followsExhibit A.

[Oblivion2500]

Seriously dude, you're already looking an arse. You really sound like you have absolutely no idea what you're on about! In addition you didn't even read the reply to your previous ill informed post propperly.

The fact that you don't even realise that Windows has the largest range of hardware support out of any OS today, really says something about how little you know compared to what you think you do! Ever tried to install OS X on non Apple hardware? I have, and believe me, for anything than analogs of Apple supported hardware compatibility is patchy at best!

Exhibit A.

Ok. I don't mean to sound like a arse (I really not a a**hole). Just look at my view for a second. I know that Windows get the largest range of hardware and software than Mac OS. It also that the economy is bad these days, because PC cost about $600 and Macs cost $2000. It just bothers me that windows has problems such as registry, viruses, and defragging harddrives. Mac does not have those, and mac are able to do everything windows can do, it just a more stable & safer OS. It really bothers me that there is like no equal right for both computers. Everything only for PC not mac. It a little bit like a monopoly for Microsoft. I just brought a $2000 computer and I get "oh, mac has nothing, it a peace of s***". How would you feel if someone said that to you. I admit that mac does not have everything windows has (that the reason I have boot camp). But it would be fair that Mac get more games and software. I just would like it if UDK comes for mac. I got sad when UT3 for mac was canceled.

[shashanks18]

Using Windows in Unprofessional??? :o

Well, I use Windows, and also have Mac OS X in my office.....well, both run some softwares similarly first of all...BUT there are a number of plug-ins and softwares that are just not available for Mac.....now, not going against Apple(i like it too), but in that case, Apple is forcing us to be "unprofessional" :|

yes Microsoft crashes a lot, gets attacked by viruses all the time, but it was the first n still has a monopoly in reaching masses with cheap n user-friendly computers......I'll rather buy a kickass version of Alienware or something with Windows loaded, than to go for n Apple with similar price n ordinary config :P

Cheers!! :)

[rounce]

NOTE: I understand you're an Apple fanboy, and by buying a mac you haven't just paid over the odds for a computer you've bought your way into a religion. Because of this I've been as gentle as possible in my reply, trying not to be rude, simply supplying you with a stream of facts. Most of which run contrary to your rather flawed beliefs.


It just bothers me that windows has problems such as registry, viruses, and defragging harddrives. Mac does not have those, and mac are able to do everything windows can do, it just a more stable & safer OS.Wrong, Mac OS is just as susceptible to malicious attacks as Windows, it's just that the vast majority are targeted at Windows. Why do you think that there are AV scanners available for Mac? As for the need to de-fragment hard drives, that's a side effect of the way computers are meant to be used. You create files, you delete files, and more often than not, when new files are written you can't write to sequential disk sectors perfectly as files will naturally take up different amounts of space on disk.


It really bothers me that there is like no equal right for both computers. Everything only for PC not mac. It a little bit like a monopoly for Microsoft.So you're just annoyed that Microsoft has a larger market share than Apple? Oh dear, well I guess they should just shut up shop and say 'Hey, all you other operating systems have this massive revenue stream we've taken years to create, go on, be our guest'. Dream on.


I just brought a $2000 computer and I get "oh, mac has nothing, it a peace of s***". How would you feel if someone said that to you.It's not a piece of s#!t, I never said it was, but it is a 300% premium on what is effectively run of the mill x86 PC hardware. I have come to this conclusion by the fact that ever since Apple switch from PowerPC CPUs to Intel x86, I've been able to build machines for around 30% of the price of a Mac Pro and consistently outscore them in XBench.


I admit that mac does not have everything windows has (that the reason I have boot camp). But it would be fair that Mac get more games and software. I just would like it if UDK comes for mac.What does fairness have to do with this? It's down to cold. hard. money; not fair and unfair.


I got sad when UT3 for mac was canceled.Unlucky, boo hoo.

[StingReay]

I'm not a fan of any particular OS, but more of a fan of cross-platform stuff. I was rather annoyed when I first heard UT3 mac was cancelled, as that was hope for me not having to use two different engines just to get a game on both Windows and Mac when it's a lot easier to just use one. That said, Mac has a large enough market share to actually warrant it, which is why I don't understand why it was cancelled. UDK is a drop-dead amazing engine and toolset, but it bugs me that there's no support for any other platforms but Windows, and due to the usage of .NET, very poor support, ad other WYSIWYG engines don't use or even require .NET to operate.

[Oblivion2500]

I'm not a fan of any particular OS, but more of a fan of cross-platform stuff. I was rather annoyed when I first heard UT3 mac was cancelled, as that was hope for me not having to use two different engines just to get a game on both Windows and Mac when it's a lot easier to just use one. That said, Mac has a large enough market share to actually warrant it, which is why I don't understand why it was cancelled. UDK is a drop-dead amazing engine and toolset, but it bugs me that there's no support for any other platforms but Windows, and due to the usage of .NET, very poor support, ad other WYSIWYG engines don't use or even require .NET to operate.

Finally someone who understand me. I'm not a fan of any OS, but more of a fan of cross-platform too.

[StingReay]

Also, saying Macs are a 300% premium on x86 hardware can be reversed to work for 7 and .NET-based applications. Vista and 7 gobble up TWICE as much memory that XP or Macs do, and add more on top of that when .NET comes into play. .NET is a HUGE memory hog. Not only that, but most of the graphics operations that are *said* to require SM3 can be implemented on SM2 cards with little performance hits. FP Render Targets really aren't necessary for R2Ts. Other engines pull off advanced effects even on old cards.

[darthviper107]

And yet games still run better on Windows even if certain elements of the OS are resource hogs.

[Kyle_Katarn]

I'd love to meaningfully contribute to the debate, but I think all has been said that needs to be said about Mac. Instead, I'll leave these humorous images for all of you to enjoy.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1371/1275227667195.jpg
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4898/1275228105941.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5493/1275228270618.jpg

[Oblivion2500]

Valve said that the game industry only started with mac, if they work with it longer they can figure out how to make it run faster on mac, plus the reason it run a little faster on windows it because they have worked with it for a long time.

[Oblivion2500]

I'd love to meaningfully contribute to the debate, but I think all has been said that needs to be said about Mac. Instead, I'll leave these humorous images for all of you to enjoy.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1371/1275227667195.jpg
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4898/1275228105941.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5493/1275228270618.jpg

I think it the same with the top pictures. Look at mac pro. It 24-cores, and fully upgradable. All others can be upgraded via trade-in or RAM, Harddrive. You can also take it apart too. You can use any mouse for mac, apple have 4 different kinds. Most of those images does not make sense. The mac hardware vs the dell hardware. The dell looks ugly. Mac have 3d games, look at Dragon Age, Call of Duty, and Unreal, and many others. Just look up Game Hardware Apple.

[darthviper107]

Valve said that the game industry only started with mac, if they work with it longer they can figure out how to make it run faster on mac, plus the reason it run a little faster on windows it because they have worked with it for a long time.

Yeah, they can work harder--that's always the issue, they can of course make it run better, but the amount of people that would care isn't very high--making it not worth the trouble.

Also--Mac has horrible graphics drivers, which is one of the reasons games don't run as well.

[Oblivion2500]

How do you know that mac have horrible graphics drivers? Look at the new mac pros, imacs. They have really good graphic cards and powerful processors. Mac Pro can have up to 24-cores, it start with 12-cores. Blizzard does mac and pc always. Look at starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. They run perfectly on the mac, including WoW.

[UnrealmrK]

I'm on a mac and currently have to use my dual boot hard drive with windows 7 just to use udk. but I would much rather develop in a snow leopard environment...
WHEN WILL THEY ADD SUPPORT FOR MAC OSX?!?!?!?!?!?

[StingReay]

And yet games still run better on Windows even if certain elements of the OS are resource hogs.
Ha! That's rich! Games like FoFiX, Toribash, and others run excessively slow on Windows machines like mine: TB only runs at 60fps! FoFiX uses all 2D plane graphics and on note-heavy songs runs below 15! Hell, the Unity demo game is really slow on this machine. .NET really isn't needed to run a game tbh, nor is it needed for WYSIWYG if you know how to code.

[darthviper107]

How do you know that mac have horrible graphics drivers? Look at the new mac pros, imacs. They have really good graphic cards and powerful processors. Mac Pro can have up to 24-cores, it start with 12-cores. Blizzard does mac and pc always. Look at starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. They run perfectly on the mac, including WoW.

It isn't as easy to release new graphics drivers for Mac, and not even the Windows graphics drivers are as good as they could be, and they get more development. And having powerful (overpriced) hardware doesn't make it run better. PC's can have the same hardware, or better. And again, games can run fine on Mac, but they don't usually run faster than the Windows version.


Ha! That's rich! Games like FoFiX, Toribash, and others run excessively slow on Windows machines like mine: TB only runs at 60fps! FoFiX uses all 2D plane graphics and on note-heavy songs runs below 15! Hell, the Unity demo game is really slow on this machine. .NET really isn't needed to run a game tbh, nor is it needed for WYSIWYG if you know how to code.

Name games people actually care about, also using your own computer as a benchmark for how well games run is no basis for an argument.

[sueds]

snow leopard is bad osx.

As long as you stick to simple task or mac based program it's cool but my 3d program like maya doesn't runs on it.

I mean this is just ridiculous and that entire tread also.

Sorry but it sound to me like a fan boys fight. Who cares ? At least I don't. People will follow where the money is. There is no real preferences in business just market studies and investment. I don't see many developers on mac ? Why is that I have no idea and you guys probably don't. Maybe it'll take time maybe it'll never happened but from my point of view mac is still to hyped to be fairly judged. Pc have more than one decade of experience, so we must be patient. I'll keep doing my final cut on mac and udk on pc.

[TheAgent]

I'd love to meaningfully contribute to the debate, but I think all has been said that needs to be said about Mac. Instead, I'll leave these humorous images for all of you to enjoy.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1371/1275227667195.jpg
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4898/1275228105941.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5493/1275228270618.jpg


I have to Digg the Ninja Motor Bike man... its too nice

[StingReay]

Honestly, there's really no proof that the engine, not the toolset, can't work well on all platforms.

[Oblivion2500]

snow leopard is bad osx.


Snow Leopard is a not a bad os. It better than leopard, and windows 7. I get crashes on windows 7, I never got my mac os x to crash.

[Kyle_Katarn]

Quite funny. I once managed to crash a mac (OSX) (that weird grey screen thing) just from using the Cameras.

The sales rep wasn't happy that I managed to crash it, him being the typical "Mac better than Windows" smug ass hat.

[TheAgent]

i crash macs just by loading two safari browsers

[UnrealmrK]

i crash macs just by loading two safari browsers

Yeah right... I don't think thats even possible.

[Oblivion2500]

i crash macs just by loading two safari browsers

You just lying. Trying to make mac look bad.

[darthviper107]

At college there were 2 Mac labs, and the Macs used to crash all the time, not lying.

[TheAgent]

the beach ball of death i suppose they call it...

[Kyle_Katarn]

Lot of denial in this topic, I think. If I can crash a mac just by playing with the camera... anything's possible.

[sueds]

I crash my mac the first day I used it.

[TheAgent]

LOL what did u do? opening folders in my schools MAC lab sometimes pisses the mac off and decides to crash, maybe its cuz im a windows user

[Oblivion2500]

Yeah, what did you do??? How old was it? New with Snow Leopard??? Got all the updates???

[sueds]

oh ! it's the brand new macbook pro ! The one with the i5 intel processor (released in Marchh 2010). I was so exicted to have a piece of hardware so cool ( My mac is more powerful than my desktop) and I wanted to try maya 2010 but it just freeze right after the installation. So I restart the macbook and then when I launched one of my maya scene ( pretty heavy I admit but it work on my old desktop computer) it just crashed.

Then I realise it was because of the snow leopard 2.63 or something it doesn't work with maya.

Quite unbelievable but true. Since the new update you can't use maya with it and because my computer is band new there is no way to get back to the old version without formating the hard drive.

From what I Did understood from guy on the maya forum it's because of apple restrictions ( not hardware but software). If you don't comply to some demand or some aspect when you creating create your tool they don't give you the latest build or something.

It's quite vague I know maybe it's fake but apple didn't give what autodesk needed to fix that problem. It's the third maya fix update for the 2011 for example and it still doesn't work with snow leopard.

Apple wnat to control the quality and with big company this attitude might get in the way ( look adobe for instance).

So now I have a pretty nice piece of hardware and I'm using it just for final cut pro and typing text and that's quite sad.

[Oblivion2500]

I guess we need a new OS from apple...maybe Mac OS XI.

[StingReay]

Lol, OS11. Seriously, though. There's no proof that an engine made for Winlose can't run just as well on Mac OS or even the major Linux distros. In fact, Unity as an engine and toolset was originally Mac-exclusive. I mean, why be convinced that it would require major code rewrites to add compatibility for Mac? How do you think games like oh... I don't know... TF2 or CS:S are being ported to Mac?

[rounce]

I mean, why be convinced that it would require major code rewrites to add compatibility for Mac? How do you think games like oh... I don't know... TF2 or CS:S are being ported to Mac?

Uh gee, here's a hint: by having all the I/O, renderer, audio output, etc portions of the engine being rewritten to use the OpenGL, OpenAL, as opposed to the various frameworks within DirectX. Middleware can also be a problem, as that too would likely have to support the host OS.

[StingReay]

OpenGL: Already supported AFAIK.
OpenAL: Same AFAIK.

Face it, DirectX is kinda crappy.

[Pranav]

I love how people here adore mac and they trash windows, I mean I am not like a DIE hard windows guy or nothing, but its funny to see people FAIL at mac, and not eb able to even model (not making fun of you or nothing), and start treashing windows lol > I am a techie guy , and yes Windows is not the best operating system, we all can agree, but I mean for the price of a mac, I can just get a linux, OH WAIT I already have one and it kicks mac's ass. Mac has NO softare compatability for me, I mean other than iTunes, which works on windows anyways, there is no need for a mac, at least for me. I would suggest you guys stop being SO DIE HARD mac, and get on with your lies by admitting the fact that Apple is running a monopoly, go out and buy windows, or run bootcamp, or run Wine, SOMETHING, and just get Windows so you can start making games already, shheesh, I just had to get that out of my system after seeing this OVERWHELMINGLY pro mac post -_- :d gl to all, (and my school iMacs look great but they arent good at least in my opinion -_-)

[Dr Bearhands]

If you "treat" a Windows PC like you would a mac (don't install anything on it) it doesn't crash either. I've never had my Windows 7 crash on me. If your windows does that may have to do with what you did to it or what hardware/drivers you bought/downloaded for it.
However since macs gaining popularity it isn't unreasonable to expect UDK to be ported to Mac (eventually).
And Ubuntu beats them both by far as long as you don't want to install anything anyway.

[DarkRazorBeast]

It's quite funny how people praise the Mac, making false claims that their mac can run better than Windows.

Before making such statements, try giving valid proof. Also, those who are claiming that Mac is faster, by running Windows in bootcamp, proves nothing. Like JonTerp said, Windows will be slower on the mac beacuse bootcamp emulates it, thus causing additional load on the cpu.

Let me tell you a little story:

I first got Xp back in 2004. I was like ...what? 10 yrs old?
For 4 years I didn't have an internet connection. At first I just played video games, but later, I started "exploring" Windows. I began looking through the system files, familiarising myself with the registry, looking through the command prompt etc. Because I had no internet connection, I didn't have an updated antivirus, I just had the one which came with the cd. So, I started to monitor system folders myself, looking for anything suspicious.

When I got internet in 2008, after like a week I got a trojan, which later, downloaded a rogue antivirus. I knew something was not right...
So, I went on an antivirus download spree. I got one, but it didn't delete the malware completely, so I helped it xD
I finally cleaned up my system. My system got infected numerous times after that, but I managed to clean it. I didn't had a virus for 8 months now.

I never had to reinstall Windows. The only BSOD (system-crash) I had was when I played an old, unsupported DOS-game. But that BSOD only appeared occasionally when I quit the game.

So... the conclusion? If you give it a chance, you won't have any problems with it. You, mac lovers, before bashing on Windows, why not giving it a chance? Do you want a computer that is completely customizable, everything available in terms of software and games, or do you want a computer that it's hardware choices are limited, does not have every program available, but has "style"?

Ahem... now, back on topic.

It will be quite difficult for the developers to port UDK to mac, because they will have to rewrite alot of code. Also, there might be a problem which is, like eAlex79 said, that UDK may use WPF. If that is the case, then it will be almost impossible WPF does not have any mac alternative..

[CBouse]

Just curious for those of you who are running UDK on your Macs (via whatever dual booting OS thing you have,) what are you using? (As in, what dual-boot program, what OSX version, what Windows version, and how much RAM?)

I'd appreciate any help you guys can provide. :)

[Oblivion2500]

It's quite funny how people praise the Mac, making false claims that their mac can run better than Windows.

Before making such statements, try giving valid proof. Also, those who are claiming that Mac is faster, by running Windows in bootcamp, proves nothing. Like JonTerp said, Windows will be slower on the mac beacuse bootcamp emulates it, thus causing additional load on the cpu.

Let me tell you a little story:

I first got Xp back in 2004. I was like ...what? 10 yrs old?
For 4 years I didn't have an internet connection. At first I just played video games, but later, I started "exploring" Windows. I began looking through the system files, familiarising myself with the registry, looking through the command prompt etc. Because I had no internet connection, I didn't have an updated antivirus, I just had the one which came with the cd. So, I started to monitor system folders myself, looking for anything suspicious.

When I got internet in 2008, after like a week I got a trojan, which later, downloaded a rogue antivirus. I knew something was not right...
So, I went on an antivirus download spree. I got one, but it didn't delete the malware completely, so I helped it xD
I finally cleaned up my system. My system got infected numerous times after that, but I managed to clean it. I didn't had a virus for 8 months now.

I never had to reinstall Windows. The only BSOD (system-crash) I had was when I played an old, unsupported DOS-game. But that BSOD only appeared occasionally when I quit the game.

So... the conclusion? If you give it a chance, you won't have any problems with it. You, mac lovers, before bashing on Windows, why not giving it a chance? Do you want a computer that is completely customizable, everything available in terms of software and games, or do you want a computer that it's hardware choices are limited, does not have every program available, but has "style"?

Ahem... now, back on topic.

It will be quite difficult for the developers to port UDK to mac, because they will have to rewrite alot of code. Also, there might be a problem which is, like eAlex79 said, that UDK may use WPF. If that is the case, then it will be almost impossible WPF does not have any mac alternative..

I have used windows for 10 years. I started using mac 2 years ago. So I have really tried using both OS. I have given windows many chances. I understand that porting windows software will be hard only when you are new to it. Like Blizzard for example, they have all there games be pc/mac on one game disc. It really nice thing they do because there are people out there that have macs and would want to try all those programs that are only for windows. We don't want to have to buy a expensive copy of windows or get a pc. But once the company knows how to code for mac and pc. Then it won't a problem anymore.

[Oblivion2500]

Just curious for those of you who are running UDK on your Macs (via whatever dual booting OS thing you have,) what are you using? (As in, what dual-boot program, what OSX version, what Windows version, and how much RAM?)

I'd appreciate any help you guys can provide. :)

I use boot camp. But here is my specs and how much ram/cpu it takes:
SPECS:
27" iMac w/ 2560x1440 LED monitor
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512mb
Intel Core i5 2.66GHz
8gb of RAM
1tb Harddrive
Mac OS X Snow Leopard (fully updated)
Boot Camp with Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Installed

When I run boot camp (windows 7), the graphic card does not lose performance at all, it only takes 250 mhz of my cpu, and 500mb of my ram. I never run out of ram and cpu. I run UT3 in 145 fps and UDK Game Mode in 120 fps (both game running FULL resolution).

[gamedevpro]

I use boot camp. But here is my specs and how much ram/cpu it takes:
SPECS:
27" iMac w/ 2560x1440 LED monitor
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512mb
Intel Core i5 2.66GHz
8gb of RAM
1tb Harddrive
Mac OS X Snow Leopard (fully updated)
Boot Camp with Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Installed

When I run boot camp (windows 7), the graphic card does not lose performance at all, it only takes 250 mhz of my cpu, and 500mb of my ram. I never run out of ram and cpu. I run UT3 in 145 fps and UDK Game Mode in 120 fps (both game running FULL resolution).

I looked on apple's website and it takes $2000+ to have a mac like that. i have a macbook pro i7 and i am in a game development club. we make tons of home brewed games but out of our 57 members not one mac other then me. i asked most of the member who made REALLY GOOD games that why not make a mac version and the most common reply i got is that they can't afford one. One of the main reason and the most hated reason by mac lovers is that the mass can not afford a mac mostly in the gaming field because in order to be able to play games nicely you would need to buy a mac like the one this guy has. on average most gamers have less then $1200 to spend on a gaming rig thats why most go for game stations if they can't afford one. Yes there are macs that are $1000 but only have a 320m INTERGRATED graphics and of course it can play wow lol (pretty much anything can now). And to make a game that would fit the masses of mac users that have the 320m which is most of them would really water down the game to well... WoW graphics. I have tried to port some of my projets to mac since i mainly use blender and just got into UDK but i find myself having to water them down so they are playable on my friends bran new 13" macbook pro which he spent $1400 on. :eek:

Also there are many people complaining how bad the performance that the mac is getting on Starcraft2 even i have to admit that it is horrible compared to windows. just look on mac forums and see the hundreds of complaints of mac users having to use boot camp to get better performance.:(

The mac platform is just not made for gaming. yes if you give it a good enough graphics card, some ram, and a good cpu of course any computer can play games but is it practicaly in any way to do it on a mac on the margins that steave job wants? cough cough... 60% cough.

Im all for mac gaming but it will not happen unless apple changes their pricing or if mac fans unite to give every game developer willing to mac a mac version for their games at least $500 for the difference in price which we all know will not happen. There is just not enough people with powerfull macs to be able to bring a big enough demand for mac gaming. most people just buy a macbook or mini or base model imac if they had the money, cause of the bad eco.:(

didn't want to bring it up because its a touchy subject. macheads will argue TOC and viruses but virus protection is mostly free now and nice ones come bundled with you internet plus it only cost $50 a year ( that will take you at least 6 years to make up the cost to get a mac, that is long after you get you second computer.) but cheers to just plain computing.:p

by the way i love linux:cool:

[TheAgent]

This, thread is still going on?

Nothing different about a mac and a regular windows machine. only the OS Mac is white, and what a laptop is any other color?? I mean this whole thing is stupid. If you put windows on a mac then its just a computer just like any other computer, soooo what if you put OSX on a regular laptop then stick a apple sticker on the laptop and now its a maC!! w00o hoooo, and all you had to do was spend 700 bucks for a regular ole' laptop in newegg thats 3 times more powerful than a $2000 dollar apple logo. All your paying for is just the Brand name logo. Just how Alien Ware over prices average laptops.

[StingReay]

I bought my HP G61 for $430 and it runs UDK just fine. No need to buy expensive Macs or overpriced AlienWare computers when your average laptop these days will run it fine. Still, having it available for other platforms would be a HUGE step in the right direction for Epic, as it opens up a whole new market for it.



It will be quite difficult for the developers to port UDK to mac, because they will have to rewrite alot of code. Also, there might be a problem which is, like eAlex79 said, that UDK may use WPF. If that is the case, then it will be almost impossible WPF does not have any mac alternative..


What is Mono? What is Cocoa? What are all the other excellent frameworks, then?

[cyberwillis]

Hi ..

Are you right about the port to another platform , btw I saw in recent interview, Epic is working to make UnrealEngine available to Iphone. They have some development licensees working at moment, so they probably WILL DO all the conversion some time.
You know, Apple computer is needed to be a authorized as Apple Developer to run Iphone dev kit. Adobe also have a compiler, but its not endorsed by Apple.
Some friends of my tried to make a conversion from a flash application some time ago and Apple company don't accepted in Apple Store.
SO Epic may be working in just a compiler tool ritght now, but they probably will open the market for UnrealEngine on MAC also some time.

About the hardware you told, you are right when you say that its not needed to get the most expensive hardware to make a game as enthusiast. Btw if you try to compile UDK light from any level created by Epic using lightmass also Production quality you will see that the high performance platform is needed for this case.

Try to see the equipment used by Epic to each development stage including Code Developer and Level Design:
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/UE3MinSpecs.html

[Oblivion2500]

Apple have a hard time getting games to run as good or better as windows (such as starcraft 2). Apple had no experience with gaming because no one have a mac and the price for a mac is really expensive. I got my iMac for $900 anyway, not $2000. There is discounts for being student and my school can pay for some of it for free.

[darthviper107]

Even so, if I had enough money for a high-end Mac, I'd still get a Windows PC, since it would be twice as fast.

[percydaman]

I picked up a mac a little while ago, cause I wanted to develop iphone games. Now I hear Apple is changing their mind about third party development tools. A mac might not even be necessary in the near future.

[cyberwillis]

I picked up a mac a little while ago, cause I wanted to develop iphone games. Now I hear Apple is changing their mind about third party development tools. A mac might not even be necessary in the near future.

That would be Nice.
Since UDK is growing for IPhone and UE3 integration and the fact that severals developers just use PC.

[Oblivion2500]

Even so, if I had enough money for a high-end Mac, I'd still get a Windows PC, since it would be twice as fast.

you are wrong. Windows gets slow once you go to the internet and install more software. I have 200gb worth of software installed into my mac. and 90gb of softwares installed into windows 7 64-bit. The mac is still blazing fast and windows now lags on me. (no viruses, spyware, cleared registry, disk is clean of junk files, whole hdd is defragged and optimized, and even tried turning off my internet and uninstalling my anti-virus. IT STILL SO SLOW). I only got 1gb out of 8gb of ram taken over for the OS, and processor is at 1%. I just brought starcraft 2 for mac and it works fine on mac. I don't know if you ever REALLY used a mac and actually used it for many things. It seems to me that you are complaining or have tried a mac but at a school, you have to know that many schools do not know how to set up macs. My school screwed up the mac because the guy who set the mac up for my classes thought it was just like windows and did some other crap that was not needed.
You really need to try the mac computers and think positive. The mac sales are getting alot higher this year than pc's. There more software coming to mac. The price will be going down for macs soon (half-price).

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I hate commenting on these threads because it always gets interpreted as a hater. First off, I don't hate Mac. I also don't think you get what you pay for. In the past, Mac always used superior hardware ( server class processors with server grade parts ). Now they are just another linux type box. They have the same hardware as a PC, cost twice as much for that hardware, less software available and in general, they are just fuel for frustration ( topic of thread for example, no UDK for Mac, frustration ).

I'm not one that tells people they have to conform, but I will tell you, I never once complained about a VHS tape not fitting into a Betamax VCR. You buy a system for what you want, if what you want is for PC, then buy a PC. The opposite is true as well.

As for having that many programs installed, I would like to say that my Windows7 machine runs just as fast now as when I first installed it. The trick to using a PC is not to install all the garbage, avoid IVirus err, I mean Itunes and other things that are prone to adding "start up launchers" designed to speed up how fast the app loads once every 9 months.

If you keep your processes clean you'll find that Windows is better then Mac OSX only because there isn't a program that doesn't come out or get ported to Windows, but very few go the other way.

[Oblivion2500]

I do keep my processes clean on windows 7. I think its alot better than windows xp but I don't even have internet on it, no anti-virus, no itunes, fix all problems such as registry, junk files,and fragged hdd. Mac is getting more programs now and games now.

[darthviper107]

you are wrong. Windows gets slow once you go to the internet and install more software. I have 200gb worth of software installed into my mac. and 90gb of softwares installed into windows 7 64-bit. The mac is still blazing fast and windows now lags on me. (no viruses, spyware, cleared registry, disk is clean of junk files, whole hdd is defragged and optimized, and even tried turning off my internet and uninstalling my anti-virus. IT STILL SO SLOW). I only got 1gb out of 8gb of ram taken over for the OS, and processor is at 1%. I just brought starcraft 2 for mac and it works fine on mac. I don't know if you ever REALLY used a mac and actually used it for many things. It seems to me that you are complaining or have tried a mac but at a school, you have to know that many schools do not know how to set up macs. My school screwed up the mac because the guy who set the mac up for my classes thought it was just like windows and did some other crap that was not needed.
You really need to try the mac computers and think positive. The mac sales are getting alot higher this year than pc's. There more software coming to mac. The price will be going down for macs soon (half-price).

Then you don't know what you're doing, and yes I have used Macs, and the college did just fine running them. I've used other school computers before that were so bad they were useless, but this was not the case.

But I won't ever buy a Mac when I can build a Windows PC with a lot more memory, faster processor, and better video card for a much lower price, that's a fact. I need a fast computer for running 3ds Max, I've got a file with 1 million polygons that uses 8GB of RAM to render, if I wanted a lot of RAM on a Mac, I'd be paying a lot more for lower-quality RAM than I paid to build a PC myself.

[Oblivion2500]

My iMac have 8gb of RAM and I am only using 4gb of ram for a 9 million polygon model! So I don't know what you are talking about by low quality ram. I do know what I am doing in windows. It does get slow faster.

[darthviper107]

My iMac have 8gb of RAM and I am only using 4gb of ram for a 9 million polygon model! So I don't know what you are talking about by low quality ram. I do know what I am doing in windows. It does get slow faster.

Meaning, I can buy 6GB of Corsair Dominator 1600mhz RAM for $200, you pay more than that for less RAM of lower quality in a Mac.

My model I'm talking about uses that much RAM for textures

[Oblivion2500]

It cost me $40 for a 4gb ram chip. I did not get it from apple. Brought the computer from apple but not the 4gb extra ram chip.

[TheAgent]

this thread should be closed.. lol

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Sword fight in the bathroom type thing going on.

I don't really care which one anyone thinks is better and why. Facts are simple
Macs are more expensive, not for quality but for name ( and don't tell me they are more stable, I have a PC running linux that was running for 2 years without a reboot before I shut it down to upgrade the HD ).
Mac software support is more limited then PC, often with higher system requirements for the software.

If you want to watch a bluray movie, don't complain because your DVD player won't play it.

[Oblivion2500]

Ok. 12 pages of a bunch of PC and Mac fanboys arguing what computer is the best and always having something to say back to each other. I am getting tired of this argument. I made an overview what we all have talked about. Now, I am a Mac user, but it does not mean I hate PC’s or Windows. But millions of people are Mac users, and I find upsetting how many people who reads or hears about someone who has a Mac and they want some the software/games for pc only to come to the Mac. What we get is a very rude responds. “Get a pc”, “Mac sucks”, or “Never going to happen”. We happen to like the Mac better than pc, that all. PLEASE do not give me another comment on the Mac or pc.

Epic games have worked on porting their games to Mac in the past. UT3 is for PC and Linux. They were going to release UT3 for the Mac, but it got canceled. There have been some rumors that they are thinking about releasing it this time. Epic has made support for games on ipods, iphones, and ipads. It is going to be very possible for epic games to make UT3, Gears of War, and UDK for the Mac if the demands get higher in this thread.

Now on to OpenGL vs. DirectX. They both suck and they both get a lot of problems with performance and crashing issues on both windows 7 and OS X snow leopard. Plus we really can’t determine if we have not tested and play a game made by epic games for the Mac. Sure we are looking at a whole DIFFERENT company such as blizzard with Starcraft 2 not working right on the Mac, although apple has fix many performance issues for that game. Blizzard does it own way of making games for PC and Mac. They will fix the problem soon. We are looking at epic games company, not any other company. All the games that epic games has release in the past for both pc and Mac has worked perfectly fine on both OS.

Now on to Mac vs. PC. It’s the world most evil, annoying, stupidest, and dumbest battle in world of technology. They both are good OS. You can’t just say that the Mac is better or the pc is better. You can’t just say “oh well the pc gets everything and Mac get nothing” or “Well Mac is the best and most powerful and pc is a piece of crap with viruses and problems”. Those quotes I just said are true. You get what you paid for. Windows has been a world standard for about 15 years because of the cost for a pc. The Mac gets better hardware and stable OS, but windows get upgrades and more software/games. The Mac does have a lot of software available such as Autodesk, adobe, blizzard games, and many other software’s. The Mac prices to me is insane but I still would rather have a Mac instead because it is a better OS, but pc is a lot cheaper and have more software.
Mac are getting a lot more popular and I am seeing more people getting Mac instead of pc and if you look at article on Mac sales getting higher every year since 2009. I really think all software and games should be for PC and Mac no matter what. I prefer to use art software and games in a Mac environment instead of pc, plus I don’t really want to have to run windows to run some software for pc only.

Epic games PLEASE support all your software’s and games for both pc and Mac, NOT just one or the other.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

You get what you paid for. Windows has been a world standard for about 15 years because of the cost for a pc. The Mac gets better hardware and stable OS, but windows get upgrades and more software/games.

No, Mac does not get better hardware anymore, if you believe that then you are dreaming. PC and mac use the same processors now ( PowerPC is a thing of the past ), same video cards, same hard drives, same everything. Things are not like they used to be ( when MAC used server grade hardware ), I'm afraid you are paying the difference for the OS and name. It's robbery, and for all that money you think they'd include a second mouse button :P.

I'm not against people that use mac, to each their own. What I am against is ( I'll make this more to your benefit ) people who think because a ferrari costs more than a truck, you can tow a trailer with it. This is always the same argument, always the same outcome which is never positive. Whatever the reason to buy a specific system, don't make it everyone else's responsibility to support what you buy. If the demand/market was there, they would do it for sales. Since support isn't there, they obviously don't think the market is ( and I doubt you can convince them otherwise ).

[darthviper107]

And the Mac install base will never be all that big (it's still very small compared to Windows). Unless Apple wants to allow other hardware manufacturers to use the Mac OS on non Apple PC's it just won't grow that much. But that's fine with Apple, they know they can make a ton of money selling a small amount of overpriced computers with their operating system than selling tons of copies of the OS by itself, so that's unlikely to change.

[StingReay]

And the Mac install base will never be all that big (it's still very small compared to Windows). Unless Apple wants to allow other hardware manufacturers to use the Mac OS on non Apple PC's it just won't grow that much. But that's fine with Apple, they know they can make a ton of money selling a small amount of overpriced computers with their operating system than selling tons of copies of the OS by itself, so that's unlikely to change.
Apple clearly lacks a working brain, then. Not flaming Mac users, but there's no logic in that at all. It's like overpriced Adobe products.

[Oblivion2500]

No, Mac does not get better hardware anymore, if you believe that then you are dreaming. PC and mac use the same processors now ( PowerPC is a thing of the past ), same video cards, same hard drives, same everything. Things are not like they used to be ( when MAC used server grade hardware ), I'm afraid you are paying the difference for the OS and name. It's robbery, and for all that money you think they'd include a second mouse button :P.

I'm not against people that use mac, to each their own. What I am against is ( I'll make this more to your benefit ) people who think because a ferrari costs more than a truck, you can tow a trailer with it. This is always the same argument, always the same outcome which is never positive. Whatever the reason to buy a specific system, don't make it everyone else's responsibility to support what you buy. If the demand/market was there, they would do it for sales. Since support isn't there, they obviously don't think the market is ( and I doubt you can convince them otherwise ).

Mac switched to Intel because it better than powerpc processor. The mac became faster than ever with Intel processors. The demand for macs are getting higher quickly than pc's. Look at blorge.com, there is a lot of articles on technology. mac is getting better and more popular, even said by Microsoft.

[Oblivion2500]

UDK is coming out for iOS now! (iPhone 3, iPhone 4, both old ipod touch and new, and ipad). There is high chances that epic is going mac again, and putting udk for mac os.

[darthviper107]

I would say since they are going to be able to create iOS games, it's more possible that they will be making a version for Mac, though whether it would be a only for iOS or the full package, we'd have to wait and see.

[NikSha]

Oh please Epic, for all Indies, support MAC.

I don't care about using Mac but that doesn't mean I don't want to sell my games to Mac users. I couldn't care less about nerds fighting over whose OS has a bigger.. umm.. bug list..

SUPPORT MAC!

[Oblivion2500]

Oh please Epic, for all Indies, support MAC.

I don't care about using Mac but that doesn't mean I don't want to sell my games to Mac users. I couldn't care less about nerds fighting over whose OS has a bigger.. umm.. bug list..

SUPPORT MAC!

Finally more people that want mac version.

[TheOneandOnly]

Myself included (I don't remember whether or not I've already posted in here). I got fed up with having to launch into Windows every time I wanted to use the UDK, so to be honest, I stopped using the UDK entirely and started looking for alternative solutions.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I got fed up with having to launch into Windows every time I wanted to use the UDK, so to be honest, I stopped using the UDK entirely and started looking for alternative solutions.

What kind of mentality would draw you to that? "I only have a hammer, so I will build this car with nails"... Oh, I get it, wish I felt that important.

If UDK isn't available as a development platform on the platform you chose. Either buy a supported platform or find an alternative ( probably inferior ) engine. If I want to buy Halo, why isn't it available for my PS3, or PC? I don't want to buy an Xbox. Perhaps I should just complain to M$ about how it isn't fair, I'm sure they'll apologize and make me a copy?

I really don't understand why Mac users get so upset about things not being supported on their platform. Rather than complaining to every company that doesn't support Mac ( which is a long list ), why don't you complain to Mac and ask them why they don't support windows programs? Because in reality that is the problem and fixing that problem would make all others go away. Developers could then concentrate on making better products rather than trying to support multiple platforms.

[Ghiest]

I just lol'd, thanks.

[TheOneandOnly]

Would you like me to fetch a ladder to help you off that high horse, Oz?

By alternative solutions I meant turning to programming something myself, using various open-source modules as a base. That way I can ensure cross-platform support for both developers and end users. The way I see it, the wider the audience, the better. The sort of mentality that would draw me to this? I don't know, greater sense of achievement, independence from other companies' licensing... It's currently a huge inconvenience to me to use the UDK, so I'll apply a bit of intelligence to come up with something more workable. If a Mac version becomes available I may change my mind.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

No need, I have a rope ladder up here :rolleyes:

Last time I checked, "started looking for alternative solutions" is not making one yourself. Best of luck with that venture < not sarcastic >.

To be clear, I'm not pro PC or pro Mac, I'm pro getting something that serves your needs. What I am against is assuming it's everyone else's responsibility to make products for multiple platforms when the reality is, companies are out to make money and they can't do that by catering to < 7% of the computer market. That unfortunately means that if Mac wants to gain a software base, they need to support Windows programs.

If they could run Windows software, do you think it would be better for their customer base?

[TheOneandOnly]

In some ways perhaps. I've always preferred Macs since from my own personal experience they're far more reliable and require a great deal less maintenance than other platforms. If they could support a wider range of programs without sacrificing any of that reliability, then fair enough.

I just think it's odd that Mac support is generally getting better amongst major companies, whilst Epic is going backwards on that front. (Can you go backwards on a front, or is that an oxymoron?)

Anyway, I'll try not to disappoint in my project.

[darthviper107]

Would you like me to fetch a ladder to help you off that high horse, Oz?

By alternative solutions I meant turning to programming something myself, using various open-source modules as a base. That way I can ensure cross-platform support for both developers and end users. The way I see it, the wider the audience, the better. The sort of mentality that would draw me to this? I don't know, greater sense of achievement, independence from other companies' licensing... It's currently a huge inconvenience to me to use the UDK, so I'll apply a bit of intelligence to come up with something more workable. If a Mac version becomes available I may change my mind.

Just saying, it seems much more inconvenient to build something yourself rather than to just boot up Windows.

The thing is to weigh the extra work it takes to support another platform to how many people will actually use it on that platform.

[NikSha]

For me it was opposite. I was using Unity to make my game because I wanted to support Mac AND Windows at the same time. But after I found UDK (since I have modded using UnrealEd in UT, DeusEx and other games) I decided to ditch Mac version in favour of superior tools/engine.

There is no way in hell that any Indie engine (or most AAA from what I have seen) out there even comes close to the amount of support and updates UDK gets not only from awesome community but the developers releasing monthly orgasmic updates. To ditch something like this because you didn't like working on Windows for few hours just to make your game is.. well..

[TheOneandOnly]

No way in hell that Open-Source engines have as much support? Interesting claim...

[saymoo]

There is no way in hell that any Indie engine (or most AAA from what I have seen) out there even comes close to the amount of support and updates UDK gets not only from awesome community but the developers releasing monthly orgasmic updates. To ditch something like this because you didn't like working on Windows for few hours just to make your game is.. well..

What a bold untrue statement.
If you'd looked seriously inside the REAL world, you would discover you are telling a huge lie.

[NikSha]

No way in hell that Open-Source engines have as much support? Interesting claim...

Alright, point me to the nearest Open-Source engine in comparison to UDK that has all the features of UDK + monthly updates + community creating high end video tutorials (community including AAA game developers). The closest I can say is C4 in the end, but that isn't open-source or free but anyways, do post links to open-source one's (probably will get links to Ogre and Irrlicht).


@saymoo
Yeaaah, real world.. brb.

[saymoo]

truth hurts, i guess you like to hide (mr. brb) from it. :P

[NikSha]

lol, c4 is opensource. (but not free)
Opensource != free/gratis

When did that happen? (also, I never said that opensource = Always Free)


EDIT: Oh wait, you edited your post. Moving on..

[Jagnot]

I just think it's odd that Mac support is generally getting better amongst major companies, whilst Epic is going backwards on that front. (Can you go backwards on a front, or is that an oxymoron?)

Umm, less than a month ago Epic released a demo for iPads, iPhones and iPod Touches. That's an oxymoron?

[saymoo]

When did that happen? (also, I never said that opensource = Always Free)


EDIT: Oh wait, you edited your post. Moving on..

you stated: "The closest I can say is C4 in the end, but that isn't open-source or free"

it is opensource, but not free.. :p

[StingReay]

you stated: "The closest I can say is C4 in the end, but that isn't open-source or free"

it is opensource, but not free.. :p

As are MOST commercial game engines. Just because you GET the source with your license doesn't mean it's open source! Look at the very software that runs this forum. Sure, you get the source to vBulletin when you buy a license, but it isn't open-source. The GPL even states that you can redistribute a commercial open source project for free without repercussions.


The closest I can say is C4 in the end, but that isn't open-source or free but anyways, do post links to open-source one's (probably will get links to Ogre and Irrlicht).

*cough*DarkPlaces (http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/)*cough*

[APZ]

I believe UDK can work on Mac already using CrossOver for Mac and having it work on the Mac without having Windows installed. Its not about .net or directx since I already have it installed on a Mac. It's more about the video card. If your video card doesn't support Shader Model 3 then it won't work, not even on a PC. Your PC should support Shader Model 3 also. So, basically you need to invest on a video card that supports it.

I been developing on Mac, Windows and Linux for years and they're all great! Just a year ago I purchased a Mac Pro and spent over $12,000 on it and happy with it. So what if it seems expensive... Don't think you can just buy something cheap and have it easy in this business. I decided to sell my PC since it had no use for me anymore. If you feel that PCs are better then stick to a PC. I don't use one anymore because I find some of my main programs like ProTools, Maya, After Effects, Premiere, Photoshop and Reason to run better on a Mac, so thats the reason I decided to just have everything on one computer. I'm not hating on PCs or Windows, I use Windows everyday for certain programs and tests. It's all users preference.

One more thing... Maybe the reason there is less (a whole lot less) viruses is because 92% of Mac Users don't install an antivirus on their OS (just kidding). But seriously, all these anti-virus companies help with viruses, but they are also the virus. They create viruses so that they can stay in business. I'm just saying... I run my Windows on the Mac with no anti-virus and so far after a year I had no problems. Even though I don't use the internet to surf around like many do, and buy all my programs.

[blilzt]

Hi.

Can anyone tell me where i can download UDK for IOS development..?

I'cant find from UDK web..

Thanks a lot..

^__^

[cyberwillis]

Hi

At moment only licensees can put his fingers on it.
For us will be released soon but wasn't announced yet the correct release date.

[Jagnot]

This morning they announced that Thursday's UDK update will feature iOS support.

[cyberwillis]

Hi...

Wow
where did you saw this ? let me know

[ameyp]

Check @MarkRein's timeline on twitter.

[Blakeanator]

So does this mean it will run on Mac OS X?

[darthviper107]

So does this mean it will run on Mac OS X?


Q4: If UDK is coming to iOS might this mean a release for the long delayed UDK for mac? (would seem a good time to happen)

Sorry but have never announced a UDK for Mac so I don't know why you would call it "long delayed". There's still nothing to announce here.

Answered in this thread: http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=754186

[robin1232]

So does this mean it will run on Mac OS X?

It is true that both OS-X and IOS have the same kernel, but that doesn't automatically make it work.
IOS has very different API's and frameworks from OS-X, so porting it wouldn't be easy.

Best would've been if UDK had been written cross-platform from the ground up, it's very easy to write a cross-platform application but porting is hard.

[darthviper107]

It is true that both OS-X and IOS have the same kernel, but that doesn't automatically make it work.
IOS has very different API's and frameworks from OS-X, so porting it wouldn't be easy.

Best would've been if UDK had been written cross-platform from the ground up, it's very easy to write a cross-platform application but porting is hard.

I think he means that UDK itself would come to Mac rather than the games that it makes---it looks like right now that the process would be that you build your game with UDK on Windows and then output some file that you would use with the iOS SDK--which is only available on Mac

[»TheHitMan«]

sigh...
http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=15395

3 years later, no UT3. I think they dropped the ball on the project.

[»TheHitMan«]

It also that the economy is bad these days, because PC cost about $600 and Macs cost $2000.

Ahahaha this is the most ignorant post I've ever read on this forum. Do you even know what you're talkinga bout? A 27" iMac costs about $2100, core i7 2.93 ghz, ATI 5750 @1GB DDR5, 4 gigs ram. An IPS 27" monitor by ITSELF costs near $1100 or so. The parts for the mac costs about $1000 or so. So yeah, good luck finding an all-in one PC or a tower PC with the same specs, WITH a 27" in. monitor. When you find one, let me know and show me the parts list cost.

[Alienated Phreak]

Mac's hardware isn't meant for gaming (not to mention making them). That's why no one makes games for the Mac, except recently, after so many people get Macs.

[»TheHitMan«]

Oh god i can't take the ignorance anymore in this thread, I'm leaving

[»TheHitMan«]

Mac's hardware isn't meant for gaming (not to mention making them). That's why no one makes games for the Mac, except recently, after so many people get Macs.

So that's why there's 200 steam games for mac right now? :rolleyes: See my above post.

[Alienated Phreak]

Yes, that's true, Mac's are too expensive, no one makes stuff for them (yes the app store is big, at least you might think, Apple centralized ALL apps to make it look like they have a lot of stuff). The truth is Mac's hardware isn't for gaming, I remember talking to my father a while back when he was working on his CNC machine, and I talking about Apple, and we started talking about how Mac's hardware isn't in real-time or something like that, so its not good for CNC machines, or videogames. And yes, I'm comparing industrial technology to video games:D.

And Linux isn't much of a gaming OS either, not that Linux is bad or anything, its good, great. But its not very good for games, and WINE is NOWHERE near powerful enough to handle games. Microsoft, and I can't believe I'm saying this, actually did a good job with Windows' gaming related capabilities.

That's just the way it is:(.

[»TheHitMan«]

Wait wait wait, so the 27" iMac isnt for gaming? Since when? Give me a break. Like I said, do your homework before making such statements.

[Alienated Phreak]

iMac sucks, probably more than any other Mac. Apple took their crappy hardware and compressed it even more into a monitor. The size is just to make more money and attract more customers (making even more money on top of that). Sure you can play little kid games on the Mac app store. But BioShock, Unreal, Quake (except for LIVE), and Doom 3 need real hardware, not this Apple crap. Apple is eye candy, if eye candy didn't exist, Apple would be no more.

[darthviper107]

You do realize that Apple hardware is mostly not their hardware right?

Nvidia graphics cards, Intel processors

They're quite capable of running games--however the OS simply isn't optimized for games, and the support for drivers for the hardware isn't as good--this means that most games run better on Windows PC's. But they still run pretty well on Mac as well.

The market for Mac gaming just isn't that big. The hardcore gamers would play on console or Windows, and the casual gamers would play on iOS or web browsers--so it's probably not going to change much, but it's still there.

[Alienated Phreak]

True, Mac's hardware is mostly others, but their own hardware is so bad that the other hardware can't make up for it (especially when you try to shove it all into the back of a monitor, even if its 27").

[TheAgent]

This topic keeps running in circles

[Oblivion2500]

I found out that apple is making a graphic card exclusive to mac's only in 2011 summer. I found out in blorge.mac. It said to be 300% faster than ATI & Navida. Also, mac is now switching to just SDD hard drives and will be up to 2 TB for macbook pro, mac pro, and iMac. Apple also in making a new os called mac os x lion, it will be more like ipad/iphone/ipod with much better drivers and gaming support. It will be released in summer along with the new mac computers.

[darthviper107]

Where's an article on the graphics card? The only article I found was that they were switching to Intel graphics hardware for their lower-end hardware that are more suited for OpenCL.

And the only thing I found about SSD was that they might be switching to SSD for all their Macbook computers--which isn't surprising. I highly doubt they'd have 2 TB SSD in their desktop systems, it's not strictly necessary and would be ridiculously expensive at this point.

And I don't remember anything in the OSX Lion presentation about there being better drivers for gaming

[Legend286]

I found out that apple is making a graphic card exclusive to mac's only in 2011 summer. I found out in blorge.mac. It said to be 300% faster than ATI & Navida. Also, mac is now switching to just SDD hard drives and will be up to 2 TB for macbook pro, mac pro, and iMac. Apple also in making a new os called mac os x lion, it will be more like ipad/iphone/ipod with much better drivers and gaming support. It will be released in summer along with the new mac computers.

I really doubt Apple have the money, or technological knowledge to produce their own graphics cards.

[darthviper107]

I'm sure they have the money--but definitely not the technical expertise

[NikSha]

Wow, BioShock (http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=1074) was released on Mac after all these years..

Indie developers using UDK should be supporting OSX without second thoughts.. at least if it was possible.

Look at it this way. You are a UDK Indie developer who can't port your game to consoles (unlike Epic, who doesn't need to sell their games on Widnows, see?). You have to pay 25% to Epic and 30% to services like Steam. Then you have to cope with some heavy piracy and pray to that gaming god up in that sky that your game manages to get on some site like RPS and get some positive reactions before disappearing into the sea filled with AAA titles and Indie titles from recognized developers.

In comparison, Mac gamers get hardly any games. There is low piracy and the best part? They are usually the types who can afford overpriced stuff, hardware to software. Who would you rather sell your game to? Windows users who get 1000+ titles (Indie+AAA) every month or Mac users who get 5 Indie titles + 1 AAA title every 6 months or so?

Also, Valve started supporting Mac. This should be a sign to Epic. Sign that says PORT UDK PORT UDK PORT UDK!

[TheAgent]

prolly still not gonna happen no matter how much you beg, ultimately its up to Sweeney and the guys.

Not the community. Ya'll shoul djust patiently wait and stop asking. Just makes this topic go in circles

[NikSha]

prolly still not gonna happen no matter how much you beg, ultimately its up to Sweeney and the guys.

Yeah, my guess is that's why people are asking EPIC and not you to port the engine. :rolleyes:

I am not even a Mac user, just interested in getting more customers cause, you know, selling games and all.. would be fun.



*waits patiently... is it done yet?* :p

[jpeg123]

i hate to open this wound AGAIN but guess what just popped up in the mac app store.... borderlands (which is unreal engine 3) is now available for the mac http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/borderlands-game-of-the-year/id411888529?mt=12

[schizoslayer]

I suspect that it has more to do with this: http://transgaming.com/business/cider than with Epic making a mac version of the engine.

[TheAgent]

this thread is driving me crazy!!!! @____@

Cider seems like a good solution though to porting for mac

[Alienated Phreak]

Even if 2K Games' games are being released for the Mac, it doesn't matter, they have the full source, and can edit as they please. You gotta remember, if they can make a beauty of a game as BioShock, then they can probably program whatever they darn please.:)

[robin1232]

this thread is driving me crazy!!!! @____@

Cider seems like a good solution though to porting for mac

Cider is never a good solution.

[Oblivion2500]

iMac sucks, probably more than any other Mac. Apple took their crappy hardware and compressed it even more into a monitor. The size is just to make more money and attract more customers (making even more money on top of that). Sure you can play little kid games on the Mac app store. But BioShock, Unreal, Quake (except for LIVE), and Doom 3 need real hardware, not this Apple crap. Apple is eye candy, if eye candy didn't exist, Apple would be no more.

Not true. Apple is not all about eye candy. They are the best computers in terms of easy to use, visual, hardware, stability, and fun apps. Next is gaming, and suck on that!

[Alienated Phreak]

@Oblivio2500

Yeah...they sorta are all about eye candy, Apple actually stole Linux, a free operating system, compressed it, made it look pretty, and they can't handle games. And there only easy to use for casual users, power users just can't stand it.

[sueds]

Didn't Mark Rein say they are not planning an unreal engine for mac ? I just don't get you guys

[TheAgent]

Didn't Mark Rein say they are not planning an unreal engine for mac ? I just don't get you guys

Something like that.... I read it somewhere... hmmm

[Alienated Phreak]

Wait, so are we talking about an editor for Mac or the ability to cook games for Mac? And if one of these do come out, its probably going to be a little while since the next Mac OS is about to come out, the OS Lion.

[StingReay]

I really doubt Apple have the money, or technological knowledge to produce their own graphics cards.

Nor does Intel. Well, they have the money, but not the expertise. :P

[robin1232]

I really doubt Apple have the money, or technological knowledge to produce their own graphics cards.

Apple is the richest company in the world, with financial reserves of around $50 billion if I'm not mistaken.

If anyone has the money, it's them and expertise can be hired.

I doubt it will happen, however.

[robin1232]

@Oblivio2500

Yeah...they sorta are all about eye candy, Apple actually stole Linux, a free operating system, compressed it, made it look pretty, and they can't handle games. And there only easy to use for casual users, power users just can't stand it.

Are you just really dumb or really ignorant?
Mac OS-X is based on FreeBSD, Linus Torvald actually talked to Steve Jobs about making it Linux but Apple didn't want that. Apple didn't just 'steal' the source from FreeBSD, it was given to them. Apple fixed numerous bugs in the FreeBSD kernel and GAVE IT BACK to the BSD developers, to use it in their project!

I am a power user, I'm a programmer. There is nothing you can't do with Mac OS-X. Everyone thinks "oh hey, the iPhone is completely closed so Mac OS-X is completely closed too" but it's a lot more open than Windows.

[ameyp]

@Oblivio2500

Yeah...they sorta are all about eye candy, Apple actually stole Linux, a free operating system, compressed it, made it look pretty, and they can't handle games. And there only easy to use for casual users, power users just can't stand it.

Actually, they took Unix, not Linux, and they can handle games. And clearly you haven't used it :)

[Alienated Phreak]

Yes but they modded the Unix to be more like Linux. A few examples:

1. It takes about 5 minutes to replicate the look of OS X in Linux
2. The GUI
3. An apps center
4. Top menu bar
5. Multiple desktops

I tried Mac OS X for a year with Windows, I just couldn't handle it, the only thing I used it for was for Mac exclusive apps, which turned out to not be that great. And I used Ubuntu for several years, the only reason I'm using Windows for now is for gaming/development (wine just can't handle it).

PS: Yeah Mac does have some FreeBSD in it, but not a whole lot.

[ameyp]

1. But not the feel.
2. Mac OS X uses a PDF rendered display, which originated from NextStep's Postscript display. Xorg uses neither
3. Actually, Ubuntu borrowed the Apps center from Mac
4. Again, went the other way round. Linux window managers had everything in a popup menu that would come up on clicking on the desktop. Check out FVWM.
5. Multiple desktops are an extension of multiple terminal sessions that could be accessed in Berkeley BSD by pressing Alt+Numeric keys.

Please, lets not waste time arguing about which OS is better on a thread that is dedicated to supporting UDK on Mac OS X. If you don't use Mac and are never going to use it, you don't really need to hang out on this thread to start arguments on unrelated topics :)

[Alienated Phreak]

You're right, let's stop.:(

[Kikokun]

yes, let's stop, but first I'd like also to vote for a Mac version.
It just makes sense now that you can make iPhone games.

[Alienated Phreak]

That or a very good version of WINE for Mac.:)

[robin1232]

That or a very good version of WINE for Mac.:)

Nah, not gonna happen. That will never work very good.
Native or nothing.

[Alienated Phreak]

True, but it would be cool.:cool:

[robin1232]

HELL ****ING YEAH!!!
http://twitter.com/MarkRein/status/42236794099466240
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Oblivion2500]

HELL ****ING YEAH!!!
http://twitter.com/MarkRein/status/42236794099466240
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Finally! Best new so far this week. although...Is he saying that UT3 is coming also for mac? Because he did say UE3 and UDK. UE3 comes with UT3 only. Maybe they did not canceled UT3 for mac completely.

[mktwo]

UE3 comes with UT3 only.

UE3 = Unreal Engine 3,
not Unreal Editor.

[robin1232]

Finally! Best new so far this week. although...Is he saying that UT3 is coming also for mac? Because he did say UE3 and UDK. UE3 comes with UT3 only. Maybe they did not canceled UT3 for mac completely.

He means the Unreal Engine 3, not the Unreal Editor.

Gears of War and UT3 for Mac have been cancelled and I doubt this news has any effect on that.
I do put my hopes on Bulletstorm, though but also not very likely.

[Oblivion2500]

He means the Unreal Engine 3, not the Unreal Editor.

Gears of War and UT3 for Mac have been cancelled and I doubt this news has any effect on that.
I do put my hopes on Bulletstorm, though but also not very likely.

Who knows... There been many high quality games such as borderland coming to mac. Apple are getting many more games in iOS. I hope they are trying to get it going on the mac and get more game for it.

[darthviper107]

http://twitter.com/MarkRein/status/44907549685841920

Looks like you'll still have to develop the game on Windows, but you will be able to release a Mac version of the game

[NikSha]

Fine with me. As long as we can release our awesome, sexy games for Mac, it's all good.

[robin1232]

http://twitter.com/MarkRein/status/44907549685841920

Looks like you'll still have to develop the game on Windows, but you will be able to release a Mac version of the game

Edit: Let's put it in a more decent way:

I am disappoint, very disappoint

[Legend286]

Ah ****ing **** Mark Rein, thanks for the false hope.

It's not like you were promised a Mac release or anything, official statements pointed to the opposite.

[robin1232]

It's not like you were promised a Mac release or anything, official statements pointed to the opposite.

Official statements? There were no official statements, just Mark Rein Tweeting that UDK would be available for Mac.
Well, I'm still routing for this one Epic. I'm also still pissed/disappointed. Mainly pissed because I am disappointed.

I think I'll write an article or something about UDK for Mac, do some investigation and send it to Epic. Now the engine has been/is being ported the step towards a full UDK for Mac isn't that big anymore.

Edit: Wrote article: http://wolfos.org/?p=62

[darthviper107]

I'm guessing it's just an extension of what they're able to create for iOS, rather a full port

[kosolapiy]

Hi all.
I`m very disappointed with all this situation, about udk for mac and all those tweets, but I`m sure that they have own reasons for that. Any way, there still are crossover and wine, any chance to run UDK in WINE?

[TheAgent]

Its in development, as stated in the UnrealEngine website.

[kosolapiy]

Its in development, as stated in the UnrealEngine website.

well, looks like MAC will be a target platform, for playing games built with UDK, not developing games on MAC.

[TheAgent]

They'll get around to it sometime or another.

[Tom Shannon]

I'd like Mac support because my clients want mac support and I either have to use Unity or lose money by not offering it at all.

[darthviper107]

You'll be able to output to Mac at some point

[HateBall]

The reason about udk is still not avaiable to mac (just my opinion) is DirectX, i know Microsoft asked Apple to recompile Dx for mac, and to do this they wanted to access their source code, Apple said no, anyway i think in a year or two Udk will be realeased even on mac, maybe like $9.99 on the AppStore for non commercial purpose only and everybody will be fine eheheheh

while for commercial purpose always with the rule of 15%

(if someone from epic is reading this should be a good idea to get mac users what they want and even don't spend too much to port the engine on mac without getting anything back)

[darthviper107]

That's not the issue--I'm guessing they're updating it to support OpenGL (or whatever iOS uses) and since they already started doing it with iOS that they are just going all the way to support Mac.

And again, they aren't planning on releasing UDK for Mac, but they will be supporting output to Mac.

[robin1232]

The reason about udk is still not avaiable to mac (just my opinion) is DirectX, i know Microsoft asked Apple to recompile Dx for mac, and to do this they wanted to access their source code, Apple said no, anyway i think in a year or two Udk will be realeased even on mac, maybe like $9.99 on the AppStore for non commercial purpose only and everybody will be fine eheheheh

while for commercial purpose always with the rule of 15%

(if someone from epic is reading this should be a good idea to get mac users what they want and even don't spend too much to port the engine on mac without getting anything back)


What have you been smoking? Microsoft would NEVER allow Apple to make DirectX for Mac, it would be a bad business decision.

I think the real reason as to why the engine is going to be ported, but not the tools is Cocoa. Cocoa ONLY supports Objective-C (which can grab code from C++) to make interfaces. Objective-C is a massive pain in the ass for any C/C++ coder, so Epic would have to hire people specifically to make the interface for the Mac version of the editor. Mac users are generally not known for being too tech savvy, so usage wouldn't be that great either.
I've got the 3 people here that would use it:
http://wolfos.org/?p=62

Add me (it's my site) to that, that makes 4. Now surely some more Mac users would use UDK, but I don't think it will spawn too many professional projects.

[Sir_Brizz]

Go Linux or go home.

[kennyrosenyc]

Who cares. I've got a HP with 3 video cards and 48gb of RAM that NEVER freezes and NEVER shows any sign of 'instability' AND it was still WAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than a Mac with a quarter of that power. It's NEVER frozen EVER. I use Maya, Max, C4D, Combustion, Adobe, whatever. Why would anyone waste money on a Mac? They're toys for fashion victims.

[Realistic]

@darthviper107 OpenGL is not the issue. Unreal Engine 3 runs on ps3's which use OpenGL. Its simply a matter of Epic trying to retain exclusivity AND if they made UDK available for Mac users they would have to waste money on new employees just to port the engine.

[darthviper107]

The engine already runs on Mac, since it's been designed to work on iOS

But the editor itself is only DirectX, since all development is done through PC. So it can output to several different systems, but only can be developed in one.

[Oblivion2500]

@darthviper107 OpenGL is not the issue. Unreal Engine 3 runs on ps3's which use OpenGL. Its simply a matter of Epic trying to retain exclusivity AND if they made UDK available for Mac users they would have to waste money on new employees just to port the engine.

Well, Epic used to make more money when UT99 & UT2004 was out. Epic always had all their games be for pc & mac. When UT3 came out which did turn out as good as UT99 & UT2004. So I don't know why Epic is not supporting mac right now. Their is so many mac games coming out this year. It only took Valve two months to code their games for mac in steam which is about 15 games.

[darthviper107]

Again, they're going to be supporting Mac, just not with the tools. I don't know if they ever supported the tools on Mac even if they released a game for Mac.

And I'm sure they make much more money now than they ever did with UT99 and UT2004

[utech]

So does UDK support build application for Mac OSX or not ?

[ambershee]

Not right now, no.


It only took Valve two months to code their games for mac in steam which is about 15 games.

I doubt it took only two months. Also, Source is somewhat antiquated which would render the porting process a lot simpler. Besides, there isn't anything other than the $3000 Mac Pro that's really suitable for working with UDK *anyway*.

[ironbelly]

I'll take an OpenGL linux version first please :) Knowing full well that's not going to happen..

[Oblivion2500]

Not right now, no.



I doubt it took only two months. Also, Source is somewhat antiquated which would render the porting process a lot simpler. Besides, there isn't anything other than the $3000 Mac Pro that's really suitable for working with UDK *anyway*.

I think the 2011 iMac and Macbook Pro with all the upgrades is really suitable too. I know a website to get ram upgrades 70% off than what apple gives you for. Sure mac pro is really powerful. The upcoming mac pro is going to have Ivy bridge intel processors.

[SeanO'Connor]

Looks like you there Mac users received quite a nice treat in the September 2011 release.

[ironbelly]

Looks like you there Mac users received quite a nice treat in the September 2011 release.

A nice treat indeed.. I'll surely cast my lot witht hose holding out for an OpenGL linux version as this open source dev needs some lovin

[Oblivion2500]

Now UDK have support for Mac OS X games! You can now also put it in the app store if you are a developer! I am so happy! Now it will be awesome if epic games create the actual UDK for mac someday. I can wait on that. Thank you! Now I hope you all modders and developer create the games for mac along with PC support. It very little effort but it makes many mac users happy!:)

[Nickadimos]

Sorry to bump this a little. Period... My Mac Pro is superior in every way to my Windows 7 PC.. Period... OpenGL, DirectX, .NET, Mono... blah. Mac is superior in every way. Yes I said it twice :) I wish the "developers" would get their heads out of the clouds and realize this. Imagine all of your workers actually getting all of their work done in a timely manner, without ever having any major "Crashes","BlueScreens","Viruses"... LOL.. of course.. the COST of my Mac Pro was triple that of my PC.... HAHA

[darthviper107]

Sorry to bump this a little. Period... My Mac Pro is superior in every way to my Windows 7 PC.. Period... OpenGL, DirectX, .NET, Mono... blah. Mac is superior in every way. Yes I said it twice :) I wish the "developers" would get their heads out of the clouds and realize this. Imagine all of your workers actually getting all of their work done in a timely manner, without ever having any major "Crashes","BlueScreens","Viruses"... LOL.. of course.. the COST of my Mac Pro was triple that of my PC.... HAHA

You're an idiot

[Nickadimos]

darthviper107:
Really? LOL
Well, without a thorough follow up on that response I will have to assume that it takes one to know one! :) You'll make it I promise! or.. you spent an incredible amount of money on your PC and have some serious buyers remorse about it? Probably happened that first time you tried to play a downloaded movie in and found out you didn't have the "codec", maybe it was when your computer slowed down after a month and had to run "defrag". LOL

[Nickadimos]

Double Post..

[darthviper107]

darthviper107:
Really? LOL
Well, without a thorough follow up on that response I will have to assume that it takes one to know one! :) You'll make it I promise! or.. you spent an incredible amount of money on your PC and have some serious buyers remorse about it? Probably happened that first time you tried to play a downloaded movie in and found out you didn't have the "codec", maybe it was when your computer slowed down after a month and had to run "defrag". LOL

I'll go through it

You say Mac is superior in every way, but that's completely untrue. Windows PC's have more advantages for game developers than Mac.

1-software compatibility. Mac can't use programs like 3ds Max, UDK
2-hardware performance. Most graphics programs and games that are on both systems have better performance on Windows.
3-price. Why would I buy a Mac when I can get way more power for the same price? Especially for a custom-built desktop.

And as for the other things

-I've never had UDK crash ever, and as for Windows stability, I've had the same amount of crashing issues with Windows as I've had with Mac
-Haven't had virus issues either, for experienced users it's very easy to avoid getting viruses, not to mention that Windows has lots of security anyways.


Also--as to codecs--VLC can play everything, only issue I've had is with 3D formats which is understandable.


Anyways, that's why you're an idiot, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[Alienated Phreak]

@Darthviper

I second that, I just didn't want to be the first person to say it.

[Nickadimos]

There you go.. now were talking like big boys and girls!
Of course it would work "better". Photoshop, being one "made" for Mac, works better on Mac.. thats one that I can think of off the top of my head. I know that UDK doesnt work on MAC, duh... It was made for windows, thus the origination of this whole thread...

You must be the luckiest guy in the world for your UDK or windows never crashing. grats! Never had a virus or malware or anything like that either i take it?

KIA costs less than Cadillac, so it must be superior then?

We can call this off and agree that your wrong :) its really not that important to me.

Good job following your "idiot" argument up with some decent, though covered already and outside the scope of the argument itself, "more-than-four-words" conversation.

[TheAgent]

I rather get 40 miles to the gallon than 10 I suppose.

[ADF86]

Linux kicks the crap out of Macs and Windows both. And don't flatter yourselves, both break, Macs just do it less, but they break just as hard; and either way both OS's are like grandpas holding the hands of the child-user to cross the street. Macs are just as fine as Windows for browsing the internet (or other mundane tasks,) and Windows machines are just as capable as Macs (assuming they have access to said software.)

That being said, I'm with ironbelly, gogo OpenGL Linux distro! (Not that it's required, it'd just be nice. :) )

[ffejnosliw]

Please do not insult other members or start pointless, unrelated arguments. These forums are for discussing UDK.