DM-Antalus?(10-16-08, map is in beta stage)

[Odedge]

Name: DM-Antalus (new name is DM-Tomac, link (http://http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=25582249#post25582249) for beta thread.)
Version: Alpha v2
Compatibility: UT 3 1.2
Description: An inspired remake of DM-Antalus from UT2004.
Comments: I am looking for constructive feedback on the layout of the map and any major game play elements (routes, weapon/ammo/pickup placement). I want to add some more routes as I feel the original was too restricting. I added some walkways that add some needed routes. I also wanted it to have a tighter feel in more sections.

I have basic lighting and there are some gaps in the rocks (they will be fixed). The rock textures will be cleaned up too. Thanks for your time in testing it.

There is a working pathing system in place to test it with bots. There might be a few places that the player gets caught on, but these will be fixed.

Changes from Alpha version 1:
1. Added static meshes for the walkways (replacing the bsp and rocks models).
2. Removed the berserk and invisibility power ups (including walkway to get to the invisibility pu).
3. Removed the jump pads and added basic lifts. I also added a bsp block to act as a temporary platform to exit the lift. As far as I can tell, the bots should use the lifts, but a lack of spectating mode makes this harder to truly test.
4. Lowered the bio gun section a bit, though it still needs some work.
5. Added a basic catwalk system in the cave. I also added a working water volume. The idea is that you if you fall off the catwalk going for the 100 shield, you are at a disadvantage being stuck in the water.
6. Replaced a certain rock static mesh that allowed you to walk into it and see through it.
7. Minor terrain and rock placement tweaking to hide more gaps.
8. Added a pair of jump boots, which works well. Only real concern is jumping on rocks you shouldn't (easy to fix) and being able to see outside the outer rock walls (easy to fix, but might limit the usefulness of the boots? :confused:

Concerns for Alpha version 2:
1. I am still kind of stuck on what to do with the cave area. I do like that it has a fourth entrance, but it's much bigger than the original. Does the catwalk/water make it better? Do you have a better idea for it?
2.Is the Bio gun area too small?
3. I don't like how straight the right side is (going from the link gun below the 50 armor to wards the bio gun). Do you agree?
4. The usefulness of the top of the middle section. The only real reason to go up there is the sniper rifle and redeemer. Bot tend to do both. Do I need to give a player another reason?

Notes:
1. I am eager to start making some progress and will keep everyone's comments in mind. If you have any suggestion, now is a good time for them.
2. My CPU maxes out while using the editor (even if I don't have a map loaded). There is something obviously wrong and it's slowing down my building time. I created a thread (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=618787&goto=newpost), so if your a computer wiz, I could really use some help. I will reinstall the game after this post, so hopefully that will work.
3. I plan on resuming work next Tuesday. Hopefully some of you will have to desire and time to see if I am on the right track. :) In past maps, I was more the builder and tweaker. My friend was the designer. So it's a challenge to be completely creative with making maps right now.

Credits: Epic and myself so far...
Homepage: odedge.com (http://www.odedge.com)
Download: See this thread (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=25582249#post25582249) for beta download links.
Screenshot:


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_5.jpg
Top view of the entire map. This is a shot from the Alpha 1 version.


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_6.jpg
Flak gun area. The catwalk on the left has been removed though.


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_7.jpg
Top view of the sniping gun and stinger weapon bases.


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_8.jpg
Rocket launcher/Link gun section.


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_9.jpg
Top view of the map of the bio gun area. The walkway on the left has been removed.

[Darkdrium777]

You should add some special architecture elements like the Talons. This will make it more interesting ;)
Also try to use catwalk meshes instead of repeating rock meshes, as the end result is not very good since the rotation of the rocks is the same.

[AndrewofDoom]

Woo! Antalus! I remember playing that quite a bit back in 2004. One thing I might request: Could you possibly add the music from the original map (KR-From-Below-V2) into this map. It would make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside if you do. : D

[Der_Schreiner]

Interesting.
Will you include the cave with the shieldbelt aswell?
Also, I second that architecture elements are much needed ... "talons" or tusks (tusks would look cool) or whatever. I think the best would be to make tusks and let the other mesh stuff somehow like it is (the walkways and such) and then you can write in the description that the success of Antalus as a tournament location was so huge it was always crowded so they were searching for similar spots across the galaxy and found that one ... or so :D
Oh and please call it Antalus][ though (I'm a total fan of the "]["-tags :) )!
And don't forget to include a little pond ... I loved the pond :)

edit: aww, just saw Antalus2 exists already out there ... gotta call it Antalus]I[ then :)

[AndrewofDoom]

Found a bug:
If you feign death inside the cave, you die.

[Odedge]

You should add some special architecture elements like the Talons. This will make it more interesting ;)
Also try to use catwalk meshes instead of repeating rock meshes, as the end result is not very good since the rotation of the rocks is the same.

Unfortunately I am limited to stock static meshes, but I did find something that might work. They are in there right now, but they are below the playing field. I want to give it that Antalus feel, so I will more than likely add them.

I see your point on the rocks replacing the catwalk. I liked the fact that it kind of divided the map into smaller sections, but I will put in a normal catwalk mesh.


Woo! Antalus! I remember playing that quite a bit back in 2004. One thing I might request: Could you possibly add the music from the original map (KR-From-Below-V2) into this map. It would make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside if you do. : D

If I can export and import it I will. I am not big into listening to music, but for those of you who do, I will try my best.


Interesting.
Will you include the cave with the shieldbelt aswell?
Also, I second that architecture elements are much needed ... "talons" or tusks (tusks would look cool) or whatever. I think the best would be to make tusks and let the other mesh stuff somehow like it is (the walkways and such) and then you can write in the description that the success of Antalus as a tournament location was so huge it was always crowded so they were searching for similar spots across the galaxy and found that one ... or so :D
Oh and please call it Antalus][ though (I'm a total fan of the "]["-tags :) )!
And don't forget to include a little pond ... I loved the pond :)

edit: aww, just saw Antalus2 exists already out there ... gotta call it Antalus]I[ then :)

You can download the map if you want. It does have a cave, but it's bigger and has 4 entrances instead of 3. I would like to make the cave a bit more inteseting as far as gameplay.

As for the name, I really don't want to call it Antalus anything because it might mislead people. It's not a port of any kind. If I can find a name that hints to it be an Antalus remake, I will.

I will add the pond and more than likely a waterfall by the bio gun. ;)

The Antalus2 map I found from a Google search is for UT2003 though.


Found a bug:
If you feign death inside the cave, you die.

Ack, thanks for the info. This is why testing maps is so helpful. I recall something about this in the forums. Time to do some research.

Edit: I am glad you told me this because I don't really use this when I play. I looked into the terrain options and found what I have to enable for a player to feign death.


Thanks for your input so far. If you find anything new to fix or have any suggestion, just post away.

[Spank$hot_BT]

Good luck with this map Odedge. Antalus has always been a favourite of mine, be interesting to see how this develops for ut3.

Small point about the rocks/walkways (based on your pics) - while they may or may not be a good solution, they do have the effect of breaking up the larger, open areas in a way that may be more fitting and acceptable to UT3s predominantly less hitscan inclined fanbase.

May also be worth considering adding 1 or 2 rock stairways to make up for the areas that you can no longer dodge-shimmy up.

Downloading...:)

[AndrewofDoom]

A few other things I should note, but I forgot in my last post:

1. The trees don't have collision, so I can just pass right through them.

2. In some areas, the terrain isn't steep enough. I could dodge up the terrain around the Rocket Launcher.

3. Do you have plans to add blocking volumes around the outside of the map? Because, I flung a bot out of the play area.

4. I don't know where you're going with this, but it lacks the feel of Antalus. Antalus was mainly brown with it being a dusty fog far out. This feels plain and grey. Change up the colors a tad to match up, and use a sunnier (not to mention larger.) skydome. Then again, maybe it's just my awkward tastes.

5. Same thing as about, I don't know your plans for lighting, but it's bland and flat. Reduce the brightness on the Skylight and add a brighter directional light (with a tint of yellow, but that's probably just me).

Still liking what you're doing. If you're having trouble exporting the song, drop me a line, and I'll do it for you. : )

[allice_40]

id like a ps3 cook! i loved this map in 2k4!

[Odedge]

Good luck with this map Odedge. Antalus has always been a favourite of mine, be interesting to see how this develops for ut3.

Small point about the rocks/walkways (based on your pics) - while they may or may not be a good solution, they do have the effect of breaking up the larger, open areas in a way that may be more fitting and acceptable to UT3s predominantly less hitscan inclined fanbase.

May also be worth considering adding 1 or 2 rock stairways to make up for the areas that you can no longer dodge-shimmy up.

Downloading...:)

That effect is my main goal. I don't want this map to be all wide open space, but a mix of open/not-so-open space. I may have to think of other ways to achieve both goals.

I did add a temporary walkway in the link/rocket launcher area. I want to have some access from these lower spots, but only in selected places. I could always put a jump pad, but I want to keep the look of the map "natural".


A few other things I should note, but I forgot in my last post:

1. The trees don't have collision, so I can just pass right through them.

2. In some areas, the terrain isn't steep enough. I could dodge up the terrain around the Rocket Launcher.

3. Do you have plans to add blocking volumes around the outside of the map? Because, I flung a bot out of the play area.

4. I don't know where you're going with this, but it lacks the feel of Antalus. Antalus was mainly brown with it being a dusty fog far out. This feels plain and grey. Change up the colors a tad to match up, and use a sunnier (not to mention larger.) skydome. Then again, maybe it's just my awkward tastes.

5. Same thing as about, I don't know your plans for lighting, but it's bland and flat. Reduce the brightness on the Skylight and add a brighter directional light (with a tint of yellow, but that's probably just me).

Still liking what you're doing. If you're having trouble exporting the song, drop me a line, and I'll do it for you. : )

1. It's an Alpha, I am not worried about collision yet. I put in the different trees to get a feel for how they look.

2. In some places, I want the player to get up like that. I want this map to have more route options than antalus, but not go crazy.

3. Yes, it's an alpha build. I will definately put a blocking volume on the top. I may put blocking volumes around most of the rocks (as long as it doesn't cause too much lag). The hard part will be whether or not this map will be low-gravity friendly. In the original version, you could go so high that you could see outside of the map. I don't want that to happen. While I will add more static meshes to make the place look bigger, I obviously don't want it to lag for the player.

4. I am not too concerned that it won't look "exactly" like the original. I kinda like the grey/green rocks. As it's an alpha (sound like a broken record player :p), the skydome and rock colors are not final. I will try to look for a more brown rock, but unfortunately, I am stuck with stock assets. I will add some sort of fog effect, probably to represent haze. I don't think there is distance fog in the new engine and I believe that's what was used in the original.

5. You know, you know, it's an alpha build. :p My plans are to have a lighting close to DM-Sanctuary. I feel that's a bright, but not blinding light. The light that's in there right now is just to give the map some basic shadowing. It will all be redone.

Regarding the song, Thrallala was kind enough to convert it to a .wav. I will try to learn the ins and outs of importing custom music. While I am not a big fan of in-game music, I do agree that specific track sounds really nice.


id like a ps3 cook! i loved this map in 2k4!

Ask and you shall receive. Here is a link (http://www.odedge.com/forums/DM-Antalus_Alpha_1_PS3.zip) for the current Alpha build. Let me know if it doesn't work, but I have cooked maps for PS3 before. ;)

Update:

1. I was able to import the original music and from what I can tell works fine. I may have to increase the volume, but you guys can be the judge.

2. There is a glitch with the rocket launcher. If you try to launch "grenade-type" rockets from it, it won't work. I noticed this before, but finally decided to tackle it. I accidentally placed a weapon base for the UT2D mod, which doesn't allow that type of firing mode.

[UT3fan2008]

the map is lookn very cool , and you know we want to play this on the ps3, i hope you hook us up soon.

[Odedge]

the map is lookn very cool , and you know we want to play this on the ps3, i hope you hook us up soon.

In case you didn't see it, there is a PS3 version for the Alpha. You can download it here (http://www.odedge.com/forums/DM-Antalus_Alpha_1_PS3.zip). Feel free to post your thoughts about the general game play (size, scaling, & routes).

[MasterB]

OK, F I N A L L Y a outdoor terrain map!
UT2004 had, DM-Betalus, DM-shuddercreek, DM-Cavedigger, DM-ovis, and of course DM-Antalus. The only outdoor terrain map I could find for UT3 was DM-CanyonFear which is a real treat.
Now finally DM-Antalus. This is great. Please continue to work on this map. So far I really like it. I did run into some clipping issues in the very high areas using the jet pack.
Thanks again for producing a map and more importantly a map type that others have ignored.
Now I need to get back to DM-Antalus.

Added: Also please be weary of others telling you to add stuff to your map. Many Outdoor Terrain maps and specifically DM-Antalus should not be cluttered with trees, etc., and such. That is not this map.

[Odedge]

OK, F I N A L L Y a outdoor terrain map!
UT2004 had, DM-Betalus, DM-shuddercreek, DM-Cavedigger, DM-ovis, and of course DM-Antalus. The only outdoor terrain map I could find for UT3 was DM-CanyonFear which is a real treat.
Now finally DM-Antalus. This is great. Please continue to work on this map. So far I really like it. I did run into some clipping issues in the very high areas using the jet pack.
Thanks again for producing a map and more importantly a map type that others have ignored.
Now I need to get back to DM-Antalus.

Added: Also please be weary of others telling you to add stuff to your map. Many Outdoor Terrain maps and specifically DM-Antalus should not be cluttered with trees, etc., and such. That is not this map.

A jet pack? hehehe I don't know if the final version will really support that well. I want to keep the map fairly simple, but I think the original had it's share of problems. One being too few choices in routes to take. That is really the only thing I would like to do really different.

[MasterB]

A jet pack? hehehe I don't know if the final version will really support that well. I want to keep the map fairly simple, but I think the original had it's share of problems. One being too few choices in routes to take. That is really the only thing I would like to do really different.

Even without the jet pack, I was blown out of the level several times by a Relic Madness explosion. You might want to include safeguards later on for this.

[AndrewofDoom]

Glad to hear you got the music in successfully.

But, I'm not sure if you knew this, but..I think you can easily make it more brown by changing the materials on the meshes.

And just in case you don't know Here's a quick Tutorial I made (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/Royous/Misc/CheezyMSPaintTut.png). I did a cheezy MS Paint job on it, because that's all I have really, as I wasn't ever all that good in graphical design. : X

And I just realized the first step isn't really needed, woops.

[Odedge]

Even without the jet pack, I was blown out of the level several times by a Relic Madness explosion. You might want to include safeguards later on for this.

I will have the map "blocked" off for the final version.


Glad to hear you got the music in successfully.

But, I'm not sure if you knew this, but..I think you can easily make it more brown by changing the materials on the meshes.

And just in case you don't know Here's a quick Tutorial I made (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/Royous/Misc/CheezyMSPaintTut.png). I did a cheezy MS Paint job on it, because that's all I have really, as I wasn't ever all that good in graphical design. : X

And I just realized the first step isn't really needed, woops.

I am aware of this. I have looked at the materials in the same packages of the static meshes. There is a darker rock, which would give it some nice contrast. But it seems to not look right, like it's too stretched (a lot of the static meshes are resized).

I also tried exporting the original texture, but it won't import into the new editor.

[MasterB]

I can't wait until the next version!!

[MasterB]

Any updates???

[Odedge]

I can't wait until the next version!!


Any updates???

I was going to allow the weekend to pass to gather some info before continuing with the map. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to work on it, but I will start as soon as I am done typing this.

That being said, I don't know if I will do another Alpha version because I didn't receive a lot of that kind of feedback. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyone's comments. But a lot of them were about the visual aspect of the map, which is not what I am focusing on now.

I will presume the general layout and scale of the map is fine. I think I want to add some contrast by adding some of the Necris static meshes for the lifts and walkways.

After looking through all of the SM packages, they have the closest "feel/look" of the original. I could even use the tentacles going into the sky to replace the talons in the original?

Well, time to clock in and get to work.

[Odedge]

I had to learn how to create lifts again. :rolleyes: Now I have basic lifts to replace the jump pads. I also got rid of the rock bridges and added some Necris walkways. I think they give some visual contrast (metal/tech vs natural). I also like that it adds a metal foot step sounds which will help players have a better sense of their surroundings.

I am having a problem with my computer while running the editor. This slowed me down a bit. But I will try to find a solution.

That being said, I will continue working on the map this weekend. If people want, I can post a second Alpha, but it will only be for game play evaluation.

After that, i won't post a playable map until the beta phase. I will still be open to tweaks and such, as long as they are not major or time consuming.

Thanks for your comments and encouragement. Here are some quick screen shots of the visual changes...


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_6.jpg


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_7.jpg


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_8.jpg


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_1_pic_9.jpg

[Dribler]

In general the idea of remaking antalus is very nice. The scale is also quite good,but i dont see the point of making this extra routes even with ut3 movement cause antalus is mostly long-range fights oriented map so you dont need to force such quick waythrough,the only thing needed in this case is boots(in case if they arent allready in,maybe i just didnt found them:) ). Maybe some routes like the new one from flack to the top of the center and from the top to shock/amp would make sense but others especially the walkthrough from double health packs in the flack area to 100 and the one to invis destroys the map balanse. Also the idea of having 3powerups at once is nt nice due to the competitive play so i would leave only amp. And the other thing to mention-lifts would definately work better then jump pads.
Keep it going mate and let me know your thoughts about this changes

[Odedge]

In general the idea of remaking antalus is very nice. The scale is also quite good,but i dont see the point of making this extra routes even with ut3 movement cause antalus is mostly long-range fights oriented map so you dont need to force such quick waythrough,the only thing needed in this case is boots(in case if they arent allready in,maybe i just didnt found them:) ).

As mentioned, I don't want to make a port of Antalus. One, because it would take way to long because it's a terrain based map. Two, I want to be able to hopefully improve it (I know this depends on the person).

I was thinking of adding jump boots. My two concerns are:

1. Players jumping on top of the rocks that separate the area near the shock rifle/damage amp. I can always put a blocking volume, though people would probably say "WTF". :confused:

2. Since there is a lot of terrain, I have to be careful on adding surround elements outside of the map (to give the map some depth). Therefore, I don't want players to be able to see "outside" of the map, like you could in the original. I can easily limit this, but if a player jumps and hits the invisible ceiling, they may also say "WTF". I will test this soon.


Maybe some routes like the new one from flack to the top of the center and from the top to shock/amp would make sense but others especially the walkthrough from double health packs in the flack area to 100 and the one to invis destroys the map balanse.

In general, a good DM map needs to have choices for the player. On a terrain based map like Antalus, this is initially hard to do (because of hills and the difference in height between the different "levels"). I wanted to give the player a few more choices.

1. Ramp from RL area to the stinger. I like this route because it extends the second level in that area.

2. Ramp from Link gun (near the RL) to the the top. I really like this because it adds a transition on the left side. Other wise, you only can go along the bottom (where the berserk power up is located).

3. Stairs from double health to Link gun (near RL). I put this in and may put others in areas where you would normally be able to double dodge up a slope. Since that is gone from the game, I think I shouldn't punish the player. I am not set in stone how it's done (except using jump pads).

4. Ramp from Flak to Top area. Now that I think about it, this should be a double jump opportunity, so I should reposition the terrain and rocks.

5. Ramp to Invisibility power up. Originally this was a rock bridge that had a tunnels like opening below it. I add this to to sort of close the area by the bio gun. Since I had it, I thought I should give a better reason to go on top. It was a test and I am not really attached to the idea of leaving it in.

Also, I know Antalus is primarily a hit scan type map, but that doesn't make it a good thing. Unless you are making a so-called sniper map, I think maps should have areas which both types of weapons work better. This is why I wanted to 'tighten" it up a bit. I don't want anything to upset the balance of the map.



Also the idea of having 3powerups at once is nt nice due to the competitive play so i would leave only amp. And the other thing to mention-lifts would definitely work better then jump pads.
Keep it going mate and let me know your thoughts about this changes

I don't if people would consider Antalus a map for competitive play, but I am not into that side of the game. I added the other power ups as a test and wanted to space them out.

I also wanted to give people a reason to go on the left side of the map (where the berserk power up is located). My presumption was that a person really couldn't have it and the damage PU at the same time. I will take out the invisibility, but leave the berserk for the time being. See how it plays out.

I just added jump pads to be able to get to the upper sections. Yesterday I added lifts (as I always planned) and they do make a big difference as you can lift jump in multiple directions. I just haven't made a second alpha version of the map with the changes. I will if people want me to though.

[AndrewofDoom]

I'd like to see a 2nd alpha. : )

But, I got some other things:

The cave area is too spaceous compared to Antalus, not to mention too close to the surface.

Add another layer of terrain, so players can differentiate between heights easier.

[Odedge]

I'd like to see a 2nd alpha. : )

But, I got some other things:

The cave area is too spaceous compared to Antalus, not to mention too close to the surface.

Add another layer of terrain, so players can differentiate between heights easier.

A second version has been updated in the original post including a change log and notes.

I agree the cave area is way too spaceous. I did want to make it bigger and not as simple as a little room. I did make a change in version 2, so let me know if you like the basic idea. If not, please suggest something else.

I don't understand what you mean by "close to the surface". Are you saying the ceiling is too low?

[The Demon Slick]

Hey Odedge, I played the PS3 before you added the walkways, some time elapsed between getting it and playing it. My feedback appears a little outdated by now. I liked the cave underground, spacious or not, I'll have to check out the newer version, I liked it having multiple routes in and out, and I especially liked your use of terrain/rocks/etc to keep the hitscan/snipering down, I think somebody already said that too. Item placement seemed good, I like more guns but that's me, I feel like that about almost every map I play. I thought the cave was fine in size but was a little too brightly lit, wanted it to be a little darker than the rest of the map. Sorry I'm late, hope that helps, can't wait to see the rest of it!

[MasterB]

This is developing nicely into a great map. I sure hope you continue to work on it.
I really like that you didn't try to copy the original. Some places remind me of Antalus while other areas seem new.
The rocks behind the lifts are too square and I would like to see the water look better. I also saw some rocks starting above the ground level (suspended in air).
None of this is criticism. This is a beta and I understand that.
I'm sure you are working on these.
Great work!! I have so much fun with this map.

[Odedge]

Hey Odedge, I played the PS3 before you added the walkways, some time elapsed between getting it and playing it. My feedback appears a little outdated by now. I liked the cave underground, spacious or not, I'll have to check out the newer version, I liked it having multiple routes in and out, and I especially liked your use of terrain/rocks/etc to keep the hitscan/snipering down, I think somebody already said that too. Item placement seemed good, I like more guns but that's me, I feel like that about almost every map I play. I thought the cave was fine in size but was a little too brightly lit, wanted it to be a little darker than the rest of the map. Sorry I'm late, hope that helps, can't wait to see the rest of it!

Well, feel free to download the second Alpha and let me know what you think. Since I don't own a PS3, I appreciate your feedback for that platform.

I haven't resumed work on it, but will this weekend, so you have some more time. After this version, you won't see it again until the beta version. The cave has a few basic lights, just so you can see it, it's still an Alpha, but you suggestion that it should be a bit darker than the "outside" would be a nice contrast since the outside will be brighter than it is now.


This is developing nicely into a great map. I sure hope you continue to work on it.
I really like that you didn't try to copy the original. Some places remind me of Antalus while other areas seem new.
The rocks behind the lifts are too square and I would like to see the water look better. I also saw some rocks starting above the ground level (suspended in air).
None of this is criticism. This is a beta and I understand that.
I'm sure you are working on these.
Great work!! I have so much fun with this map.

I will work and finish this. I will be going on vacation in a few weeks, but don't worry, it will get done as I am a fan of Antalus. The rocks behind the lifts are a place holder, just so you can (and the bots) can use them properly for testing purposes, I will use static meshes.

The water will be different as it needs to be more translucent. I just used any material I found, but how do you like the basic concept of the cave area?

Remember, this is still an Alpha version, not a beta. While I can't do custom models and textures, I do take pride in quality. I wouldn't dare release this version as a beta. :p I will be learning new stuff in the editor, so we will see how that goes.

Thanks for the encouragement, having others look forward to your time and effort makes that time go by easier (or quicker, or both?). Ok, I will shut up now.

[MasterB]

OK, Nothing but good things to say about this map. It's greatness (or will be).
For the bridges, I think something like the wooden bridges in DM-Betalus (Ut2004) http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=1108 would be a great fit for this map. Then use the wooded docks in vCTF-Suspense for the cave. Place them just below the water line and they will look flooded. I think this would fit the map better that what you have. Not a complaint, a suggestion.

[Odedge]

OK, Nothing but good things to say about this map. It's greatness (or will be).
For the bridges, I think something like the wooden bridges in DM-Betalus (Ut2004) http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=1108 would be a great fit for this map. Then use the wooded docks in vCTF-Suspense for the cave. Place them just below the water line and they will look flooded. I think this would fit the map better that what you have. Not a complaint, a suggestion.

I hear ya. I was originally going ot go with some sort of wooden bridges, but I think I would have to make them in the editor, which shouldn't be a big deal since it will be blocky. He used the bridges from Antalus, so that would be a bit hard to do.

I like the idea of the flooded cave, I will go with that. I would like to connect a waterfall (near the bio gun) to the water around the bio gun, to a little stream that runs into the cave. Not having done this before, I will see what I can do.

Work on the map will resume this weekend. :)

[MasterB]

Any update on a 3rd. version?
I am really looking forward to what it looks like.

[AndrewofDoom]

I'm with MasterB here. I wants progress reports. : (

[MasterB]

I hope this map is still being worked on.
An update would be appreciated.

[Kuro]

Yeah, updates would be nice. Although, after playing it for the first time, this map doesn't really cut it for me. It looks good so far as an alpha, but it doesn't have the same feel as Antalus. I know your not doing a direct port, but while playing it, it just feels a little too cramped in some places, and overall seems a lot smaller. Also, it's not too visually pleasing but that's probably because it's still in alpha stages.

[Odedge]

I'm with MasterB here. I wants progress reports. : (


I hope this map is still being worked on.
An update would be appreciated.

I just got back from a week long vacation. I will continue working on the map, but probably won't release any more alpha versions. I will release a beta version when it's ready.


Yeah, updates would be nice. Although, after playing it for the first time, this map doesn't really cut it for me. It looks good so far as an alpha, but it doesn't have the same feel as Antalus. I know your not doing a direct port, but while playing it, it just feels a little too cramped in some places, and overall seems a lot smaller. Also, it's not too visually pleasing but that's probably because it's still in alpha stages.

I hear ya. I did do a test where I ran around the outer part of the map on this and the original and they took essentially the same amount of time. This told me that it over all size was good enough.

I did want to make the map a bit more "tighter" than the original. I don't want the map to be a hit scan weapon fest. But at the same time, I don't want the player to feel there is no room to move.

The only place I can see where it's really cramped is on top of the center hill. If you have any specific examples of where it's too cramped, let me know, as this is the point of an alpha test.

The visuals will be improved as it's still an alpha and I really was looking for game-play related feedback, but the other feedback is appreciated as well. Give the map a try when the beta is released, I might have made changes that makes the map more enjoyable. :)

[Kuro]

I'll give the map a few more tries to see what I can come up with. Also (I forgot to put this in before) there were a few graphical glitches here and there but they will probably be fixed for the beta. But just incase you aren't aware, the rocks where the U Damage and the Shock rifle is, if viewed from a certain angle seem to get very dark shadows on them. Also the water in the centre (why is there water there?) disappears when you dive into it.

*EDIT*

Got a few pics of the rocks. I did have one of the water as well but imageshack won't let me upload it for some reason...and it's converted all my .bpm files into .png files with lower resolution.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9576/screenshot00004ko9.th.png (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00004ko9.png)
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8756/screenshot00002uc8.th.png (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00002uc8.png)

And also...
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1285/screenshot00003ct0.th.png (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00003ct0.png)
...O.o

And another thing, the rock where the U damage and Shock Rifle is located could be lowered a little bit because when trying to walk onto it from the front, you get stuck on it and have to jump onto the rock to collect the pickups there.

[The Demon Slick]

I liked it, mostly... I didn't like the water surface, appears bright green, and you can't see if anyone is there, players going into it appear to dissappear. The rest was aces!

[Odedge]

I'll give the map a few more tries to see what I can come up with. Also (I forgot to put this in before) there were a few graphical glitches here and there but they will probably be fixed for the beta. But just incase you aren't aware, the rocks where the U Damage and the Shock rifle is, if viewed from a certain angle seem to get very dark shadows on them. Also the water in the centre (why is there water there?) disappears when you dive into it.

Got a few pics of the rocks. I did have one of the water as well but imageshack won't let me upload it for some reason...and it's converted all my .bpm files into .png files with lower resolution.
...O.o

And another thing, the rock where the U damage and Shock Rifle is located could be lowered a little bit because when trying to walk onto it from the front, you get stuck on it and have to jump onto the rock to collect the pickups there.

There are some rocks where you can see inside of them and these will be fixed. Since I will be constantly tweaking the terrain, I didn't worry about every single one of them.

The water in the cave was added for the second alpha version. I wanted to keep the cave simple, but needed something else besides a raised walkway. I decided to add the water so if a player decides to go for the shield belt and falls off (the walkways aren't that wide), there is a "price to pay". You want receive any damage for falling into the water, but you should be at a disadvantage because you will move slower.

Thanks for taking the time with the pics. I am aware that some of the rocks don't look good, but I am hoping to use a different color for the rocks. Either way, I won't allow these things to be in the final version.

Those extra walkway pieces are just in a "staging area". You should see what's below the map too! I tend to place pieces I may use outside the map and delete them later.


I liked it, mostly... I didn't like the water surface, appears bright green, and you can't see if anyone is there, players going into it appear to dissappear. The rest was aces!

Thanks for the encouragement. The green water was just thrown in quickly to test out the water in the cave idea. I have already worked on that area.

Now there are 2 waterfalls (one on each side of the cave) and water is connected between the 2 falls and the cave pool. I am also using a clear water and will add a post processing effect so when your in the pool, it looks like your in clear water.

[Odedge]

Hello all... August had a few distractions (vacation and new entertainment center in the living room). But those are in the past and I have made a lot of progress on the map.

I essentially have the lighting done, the terrain and rock placement is basically set in stone. ;) That is is essentially playable and the only thing I see changing is ammo/power up placement. I think I will keep the weapon placement the same as the original.

The only things essentially left to do are visual related. I am still trying to figure out a better material for the rocks and what trees to use. I need to add the details (grass, plants, small rocks, etc). Maybe add a post processing volume or two. Then the last steps before the beta would be optimizing it (collision and fps performance).

So fare, with the usually settings I play with, the map runs solid, but I still have some other stuff to add. For the beta, I will set everything to be displayed even at the lowest setting. With feedback from you, I will make the needed adjustments.

Here is a teaser image...


http://www.odedge.com/forums/ut3_dm-antalus_alpha_2_pic_1.jpg

[MasterB]

Image not so good.

[Odedge]

Image not so good.

Give me some credit. Your looking at the map in the editorusing the "squint" mode. That's why it's a "teaser" pic. You get an idea of what the map looks like, but you won't know until the beta. :p

[MasterB]

That's why it's so fuzzy? OK, I get it, it's bait.

[MasterB]

Status on another beta or final?
I am really looking forward to this one.

[Odedge]

Status on another beta or final?
I am really looking forward to this one.

I will have a beta, when the time comes. I usually don't release a beta version until I beleive the map is essentially ready for release. The first beta might have a few things unfinished, but it's because I would want people's opinion on what they like better (example: What trees look best).

The layout of the map is done. I just inserted some basic ambient sounds, but will try to play with them a bit more. Most of the work left is in the details (plants, grass, etc) and the surrounding area (how much should the player see outside of the map, with out killing the frame rate).

p.s. Did you ever get the PM I sent ya? ;)

[MasterB]

Odedge,
Oops..............
I don't get many PM's so I don't look for them.
I PM'ed you a few minutes ago.

[Odedge]

If anyone is interested, the map is still being worked on. Progress was a bit slow in September as there was a lot of minor tweaking, testing, and learning.

The only major things I have to do are:

1. Extend the outside area of the map. This is directly dependent on how high a player will be allowed to go. The one thing I don't want, is a player being able to see the "void".

2. Finish the details (small static meshes, sounds, etc).

3. Optimizing the map. I need to remove unseen terrain, possibly replace some static meshes, add needed blocking volumes, and similar stuff.

I am itching to get this map done. I will post one beta, then any "release candidate" versions (if needed). So hang in there with me... ;)

[4TX4]

If anyone is interested, the map is still being worked on.

Cool, glad to hear that. :)

[KazeoHin]

just some art concerns: the original UT2k3 map had a very artistic early-sunset skybox, with lighting to match. Just from the pics, it seems like the lighting is rather bland (are you using a skylight?) I understand that you probably arent digging to far into visuals yet, but lighting is important to gameplay, as the human eye reacts differently to different colors and brightness levels. Player activity can change quite a bit depending on what catches their eye. I would suggest adding in lighting quite soon.

EDIT: I just ran across your "squinty" teaser pic. Forgive me if what I just said is a bit redundant to your process. I was basing my comment on the OP.

[Odedge]

EDIT: I just ran across your "squinty" teaser pic. Forgive me if what I just said is a bit redundant to your process. I was basing my comment on the OP.

Hehe. I agree that lighting iis a big part of the look and feel of a map. It's going to be essentially sunny (still trying to figure out how to add a properly sized len's flare, which I created a thread (http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=624589))

I was pleasantly surprised the difference the lighting made. Since it's outdoors, I can't have that many colors. THe cave is the only place I can put something different, but more than likely it will have fire, so there might not be any blue based lights. :eek:

[KazeoHin]

Its Unreal, Blue fire is perfectly natural, just like pink elephants. Really, a good map should take advantage of a unique color pallet. In an early sunset, you can use a skylight to cast a vivid indigo/blue light, with a directional light casting a orange/red light.

http://k53.pbase.com/u16/brianowski/upload/42049594.3133844lg.jpg

With this pic, you can really see how a sunset (or even a late afternoon) can really create mood lighting. Take your lighting and run with it!

[Odedge]

Its Unreal, Blue fire is perfectly natural, just like pink elephants.

Pink elephants on parade? :D

You're right. All of my mapping experience has been in reality based games for the most part. I tend to forget we are in the Unreal universe. If I can figure out how ot make blue fire, I will.

For some reason, the picture isn't showing up. :(

[KazeoHin]

haha! Well, If you're using all Epic-Made assets, good luick. If not, find annother lightsource, like glowing crystals, fireflys, all sorts of cool things can light a cave!

also: something that really helps my map lighting is this tutorial (http://www.hourences.com/book/booklighting.htm) it really explains some good points about virtual lighting.

[Odedge]

This post is to inform anyone still subscribed to this thread that the map has finally reached beta stage. :D Feel free to check it out over here (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=25582249#post25582249) and post any feedback in the new thread. I hope I made a map that was worth the wait. Thanks for everyone who posted in this thread as it has helped me shape the map.