The Grenade Issue

[Birdy Man Bird]

Ok, so here are my gripes with the development of the new grenade features.

Why would Epic pull a Bungie and increase the annoyance of grenade tagging? It's arguably the most obnoxious and annoying way to die in Gears 1 why would they want to up it? That's pulling a Bungie move.

Being able to tag any of the three grenades on to a wall for proximity explosion isn't a good idea. I can already see it being a ridiculous way to die and people will definitely over use it.

Only the smoke grenade should have this feature. Doing that will actually make the grenade more useful then it currently is while not overpowering the use of the other grenades.

-Explosion grenade should only be allowed to be stuck like it currently is to an opponent
-Smoke grenade should only be allowed to stick to walls, and it should NOT have a daze feature when regularly thrown. The use of the grenades is to prevent people from seeing you, and allowing you to charge through thte smoke at a sniper, etc.
-Gas grenade should only be allowed to be thrown. Period.

Giving the grenades too much power will take away from the essence of gears. Gears is one of those shooters, if not one of the only ones that doesn't rely on a lot of grenade+shot combo like Halo. It should stay that way.

Please Epic, Don't Pull a Bungie and make everything that was obnoxious about the previous game upped while taking what made it great and downgrading it.

[OverKill]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

[< Profess >]

I think if anything, tagging has been down graded, did anyone notice in the recent MP footage how tagging was achieved by throwing the grenade underarm onto an opponent. Hopefully no more 180 degree tag-attacks.

So I like that,

As for the wall sticking, I like the idea of that with gas and smoke grenades, but I'm with you on the Frag placement. It sounds over powered.

At least with smoke and gas it's not instantly lethal, with smokes it's a good way of covering a defenders rear (same with gas really) but it still needs said players to actually deal with those flanking enemies.

[Birdy Man Bird]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

I figured that would have been the first opposing complaint to my idea- the complication issue.

The thing is it wouldn't be complicated if each grenade looked different. for example, if the gas grenade were circular vials which would break like glass when thrown.

I just hope that Epic will make the grenades scarce like they are now. One set of grenades for each map and have a decent length for respawn.

I just don't know about the smoke grenade, it seems far too overpowered now, especially since you start out with one.

[Omega360x]

This is how I think they should have made all the gnades work.

Exploding nades - stick to walls but not proximity explosion, you gotta shoot them to trigger the explosion.

Poison nades - they are awesome just the way they are. Just don't make them proximity triggered.

Smoke nades - Good idea but the knock down is way to over powered. Maybe just blurr anyone's vision within the proximity of the smoke. No Knock Down please!!

[JAGX]

Wait til' you play the game man.

[Eternalnow]

Wait til' you play the game man.

+1.

Someone who speaks sense. NO ONE knows how the grenades will play out in the final version of this game, being released in November.

I personally think that grenade placement on walls is an excellent idea.

[SoaNaDe]

Ok, so here are my gripes with the development of the new grenade features.

Why would Epic pull a Bungie and increase the annoyance of grenade tagging? It's arguably the most obnoxious and annoying way to die in Gears 1 why would they want to up it? That's pulling a Bungie move.

Being able to tag any of the three grenades on to a wall for proximity explosion isn't a good idea. I can already see it being a ridiculous way to die and people will definitely over use it.

Only the smoke grenade should have this feature. Doing that will actually make the grenade more useful then it currently is while not overpowering the use of the other grenades.

-Explosion grenade should only be allowed to be stuck like it currently is to an opponent
-Smoke grenade should only be allowed to stick to walls, and it should NOT have a daze feature when regularly thrown. The use of the grenades is to prevent people from seeing you, and allowing you to charge through thte smoke at a sniper, etc.
-Gas grenade should only be allowed to be thrown. Period.

Giving the grenades too much power will take away from the essence of gears. Gears is one of those shooters, if not one of the only ones that doesn't rely on a lot of grenade+shot combo like Halo. It should stay that way.

Please Epic, Don't Pull a Bungie and make everything that was obnoxious about the previous game upped while taking what made it great and downgrading it.

I actually agree with this. I'm not usually one to argue with Epic's choices too much, but I 100% agree with the ways you said each grenade should be implemented.

[FF Retalliation xX]

theres 2 frag grenades / poison grenades per round, how will that be over used.

tagging is one of the features that sets gears of war appart from every other shooter, along with chainsawing, i hate when people say chainsaw n00b trying to get people to not use the chainsaw, if it wasnt in the game wed be playing GRAW in space.


with the grenades the best you could do is barricade yourself into the sniper tower on gridlock, and hopefully if you shoot the grenade it explodes meaning tactical placement will be needed.

but i cant agree with you at all, one smoke grenade per person, and to work it has to be a really well placed grenade, although it would of been better to use the grenade stun not falling over.

[Sugartits]

Smoke grenade looks a little overpowered and seems like it is a cheap way to get a kill because they get knocked down.

[< Profess >]

Though there's nothing to say it's detonation couldn't blow you off into relative safety.
(however ridiculous that sounds)

It's just a knockdown after-all, it's still up to the placing team to capitalize on it.
Something that won't be easy if players are smart enough not to 4 man rush within 2ft of one another.

[Birdy Man Bird]

all of this just seems to promote more standoff/set back kind of gameplay.

[Evil Twin]

I'm curious, does the smoke grenade still knock you down if you are in cover?

Does anyone know that?

[DUBL DUECE]

I'm curious, does the smoke grenade still knock you down if you are in cover?

Does anyone know that?

From the videos and articles I have seen/read it has not mentioned that. they may give us more info or we may have to wait until the game comes out.

[Crusader1099]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

But you can't run through a poison grenade smoke cloud where you can run through the smoke grenades, just not the initial blast, that's all.

[OverKill]

But you can't run through a poison grenade smoke cloud where you can run through the smoke grenades, just not the initial blast, that's all.

ya i know

i just don't really see the point, especially when you juice up the other frags and give them so much more versatility

[Crusader1099]

ya i know

i just don't really see the point, especially when you juice up the other frags and give them so much more versatility

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

[SHOGUN 47]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.That sounds almost perfect, but I think the Shields are going to be set around the map like a weapon spawn point. So people will have to wait their turn to get one, and by the time they do they are dead.

[Crusader1099]

That sounds almost perfect, but I think the Shields are going to be set around the map like a weapon spawn point. So people will have to wait their turn to get one, and by the time they do they are dead.

I know, I know, and they may not respawn considering theirs no ammo attatched to them, so maybe there's a limited amount per map, in this case, I do agree that their should be custom games, just so I can try this, at least once :D

[OverKill]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.


like in a phalanx? that would be funny

[< Profess >]

Can't see it working too well against some Gears style archery.

[Crusader1099]

Can't see it working too well against some Gears style archery.

TORQUE BOW, OMG!!!! We could do a whole TORQUE BOW Team vs Shields Team! Would the shields get destroyed from Torque bow or boomshot though or protect you?

[gatorxx313]

Smoke grenade looks a little overpowered and seems like it is a cheap way to get a kill because they get knocked down.

No cheaper than a 2 piece or a wall bounce though. Honestly, like people say... just wait for the game to come out. If you don't think they're smart enough to limit the use of these things so they are not over used... I think you'll get a good dose of reality when it does come out.

[Crusader1099]

I think they work perfectly and that everyone should stop there complaining. The fact is you shouldn't run into a building with your shotgun to kill someone with out being more tactical about the situation. That's what Epic is trying to do, not make it a shotgun fest. I'm going to turn it into a 300 movie rip off, SPARTANS!!!!!!! MAN YOUR SHIELD BOYS!!!!

[OverKill]

I think they work perfectly and that everyone should stop there complaining. The fact is you shouldn't run into a building with your shotgun to kill someone with out being more tactical about the situation. That's what Epic is trying to do, not make it a shotgun fest. I'm going to turn it into a 300 movie rip off, SPARTANS!!!!!!! MAN YOUR SHIELD BOYS!!!!

there's some Machinima for people

make us a recreation of the Greco-Persian War with GoW2 shields and Torque Bows and give me credit

[Crusader1099]

Give you credit? I heard someone mention 300 stlye working together going from cover to cover with shotguns, but nothing to do with shields in phalanxs, you said phalanxs, but I was saying that just with out name. I will definitly do this, I'm quite the filmmaker myself anyway.

[OverKill]

Give you credit? I heard someone mention 300 stlye working together going from cover to cover with shotguns, but nothing to do with shields in phalanxs, you said phalanxs, but I was saying that just with out name. I will definitly do this, I'm quite the filmmaker myself anyway.


partial credit? :D

[Crusader1099]

partial credit? :D

Fine, partial credit for giving me the idea to make a machinima, I hope they have the ability to record video though, and a free cam like Halo, other then that I won't do it with a guy using a pistol where you can clearly see the sight and tip of pistol. For this reason I want theatre mode, and forge.

[SofaKingGnarly]

How come people have problems with grenades in video games? I love them. I don't have a fit about dieing cause I get kill with them.


I for one welcome are new Grenade Overlords.

[Birdy Man Bird]

No cheaper than a 2 piece or a wall bounce though. Honestly, like people say... just wait for the game to come out. If you don't think they're smart enough to limit the use of these things so they are not over used... I think you'll get a good dose of reality when it does come out.

What's cheap about a two piece? Most two pieces are done either from the side or from the back and only because the shotgun is not very trustworthy.

If someone is getting that close to you in the first place you deserve to die. It's so hilarious to me when people complain about me two piecing them in the back, like it's my fault they had their back turned and did not see me coming.

What they want me to do is either try to pull my chainsaw out (which would make noise and then they could hear me) or attempt a shotty to the back of the skull which could easily not work and then they have a chance of turning around and blowing me away with one shot.


So funny.

[julianwelton]

What I wanted them to do with Grenades is fix them so that people are not safe if they are against a wall that is stupid. I also wanted them to up the kill radius because like I always say while playing Gears "Grenades have a two inch kill radius and a thirty foot stun radius". The only thing I agree with you on is frags not being able to be stuck on walls because that will promote camping, but smokes just send the enemy flying and poison will kill anything that tries to go through which isn't bad if your trying to make someone come through a specific doorway.

[Eternalnow]

What I wanted them to do with Grenades is fix them so that people are not safe if they are against a wall that is stupid. I also wanted them to up the kill radius because like I always say while playing Gears "Grenades have a two inch kill radius and a thirty foot stun radius". The only thing I agree with you on is frags not being able to be stuck on walls because that will promote camping, but smokes just send the enemy flying and poison will kill anything that tries to go through which isn't bad if your trying to make someone come through a specific doorway.

Camping has been an issue for as long as I can remember, so being able to stick grenades on walls will only excerbate something that is already happening. I'm excited to try it out too...

[Hublah]

What's up with all the hate on another developer from the thread starter? It's not pertinent or productive to the point and hating on other developers doesn't make you cool or seem more loyal, you just look like ignorant and angsty.

From the MP videos I've seen the grenades seem to be in just the place they need to be. I thought it was really cool and promoted strategy. Now you have to watch where you go and be careful about rushing a position. And regarding the smoke, you have to throw it dead on and they have to be right next to it when it goes off for them to fall. I personally think it's a really cool way to make the starting grenades worth something more.

Also, the poison grenade is not a useless add-on. It's the perfect way to bottleneck your opponent or take away an escape route, an entrance, so on. Not to mention it's the perfect way to force a camper to leave their nest.

Lastly, we can't really say until we are playing the final version of the game. So let's not be quick to assume.

[Locust General]

Remember, you dont start with frags. Its 1 smoke. Also like the guy said above me you have to be really close for it to stun you. So dont worry, its a cool addition

[Wisdom Thumbs]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

lolzomgroflolmao Do you have ANY idea what you've just DONE? Do you have any idea how many GEARS OF WAR 300 machinimas you've just ****ted out? OMG! So funny, can't wait.

...On topic, I think the grenade down is a perfect edition. I felt like the smoke grenade was as weak was paper in Gears 1, because you can easily see through it 80% of the time, and it only lasts like thirty seconds. This results in you having to wait for the smoke to build up, then run in there for a five second window, and get back out before the smoke disappates a tiny fraction and reveals you clomping around blindly.

Now you can throw a smoke into a crowded room and blast the **** out of the ragdolls that come thumping down the stairs or screaming out of the windows.

lol, just had an idea.


MARCUS: madness? This... is... SPARTA! *kick*

-Marcus curb-stomps Locust, who then slides back into Emergence-Hole-

Or maybe a whole team has shields...


PLAYER 1: dude we are so like invincible because we have the ancient, tried-and-true phalanx on our side. It's never been defeated!

PLAYER 2: is that a smoke grenade?

PLAYER 4: wuh... ****!

bang

LOCUST 1: lolzomg the humanity

LOCUST 2: this... is... EPIC!

[Birdy Man Bird]

What's up with all the hate on another developer from the thread starter? It's not pertinent or productive to the point and hating on other developers doesn't make you cool or seem more loyal, you just look like ignorant and angsty.

From the MP videos I've seen the grenades seem to be in just the place they need to be. I thought it was really cool and promoted strategy. Now you have to watch where you go and be careful about rushing a position. And regarding the smoke, you have to throw it dead on and they have to be right next to it when it goes off for them to fall. I personally think it's a really cool way to make the starting grenades worth something more.

Also, the poison grenade is not a useless add-on. It's the perfect way to bottleneck your opponent or take away an escape route, an entrance, so on. Not to mention it's the perfect way to force a camper to leave their nest.

Lastly, we can't really say until we are playing the final version of the game. So let's not be quick to assume.

Or it's going to resort to a lot of cheap kills and annoyances. Do you not remember the ridiculous nature of the first grenade tagging ability? Annoying cheap ways to die never = fun. And you can say well "thats why the active sniping is being removed" yes, but see not everyoen can do that. Everyone can stick a grenade to a wall, and tag someone etc.

What a lot of people in here complain about isn't the effectiveness of hard weapons, it's their inability to use those weapons to their benefit. What they want is easier weapons to use in order to achieve the same type of kill count.

[Jesterdance]

Is it possible to destory wall-grenades?

Off-Topic: MP-Shieldmatches? "300" Fanmovie anyone? :D

[OverKill]

Is it possible to destory wall-grenades?

Off-Topic: MP-Shieldmatches? "300" Fanmovie anyone? :D


i assume if you shoot a wall-grenade it would go off (most people in the MP vids of Gears 2 were shooting the nades to set them off)

[WaldoRtk7]

Wisdom just jacked my idea! OH well I picture the shield thing happening... a lot...

But As to the grenades, ever change Epic has made or added seems to promoting the use of tactics. Which is a god send for me, because Gears has completely become void of them. Grenades are just adding another dynamic to the gameplay.

[xSINxApocalypse]

I wonder if you threw a grenade by another grenade if it would detionate?
Plus, Why does everone say two-piecing or wall bouncing is "cheap"? It's a way to kill someone, the only thing that's cheap in GOW is downing someone and then having the whole team rape them. Everything else is fair game.

Grenades are gonna be awesome!
Good job Epic.

[LocustQueen]

To fix the problem of making grenades not to powerful is make the player only hold two grendades. Also there should not be any extra grenades on the map. By doing this people will realize grenades are treasures and should not be overused. But just wait till November and let it play out. Gears of war 2 will be a great game.

[WaldoRtk7]

I wonder if you threw a grenade by another grenade if it would detionate?
Plus, Why does everone say two-piecing or wall bouncing is "cheap"? It's a way to kill someone, the only thing that's cheap in GOW is downing someone and then having the whole team rape them. Everything else is fair game.

Grenades are gonna be awesome!
Good job Epic.

2-Piecing is like the BxR or BxB of Halo it likely won't be in the next game or it will less prominent, it's a crutch that a lot of people will be disappointed that it's because it is a definite kill and the shotgun wasn't intended to be the primary weapon.

Wallbouncing wasn't intended to be in the game either, in fact you couldn't do it before 3rd patch. So it too will be gone in Gears 2. Epic has said that they aren't fan of the all the shotty spam, so that means this is gone too.

[Birdy Man Bird]

2-Piecing is like the BxR or BxB of Halo it likely won't be in the next game or it will less prominent, it's a crutch that a lot of people will be disappointed that it's because it is a definite kill and the shotgun wasn't intended to be the primary weapon.

Wallbouncing wasn't intended to be in the game either, in fact you couldn't do it before 3rd patch. So it too will be gone in Gears 2. Epic has said that they aren't fan of the all the shotty spam, so that means this is gone too.

Unreal.

Ok, so instead of someone two piecing you from behind would you rather them just chainsaw you? Chainsawing is higher percentage kill than a two piece from the back. Also, Cliffy already stated in an interview that if someone is right up to you that a shotgun blast to the face should kill you. They got that close, they deserve the kill.

So, again, what is wrong with the two piece? You know what's wrong with it? I'll tell you- it works and you don't like being killed. I've already told you why people use the Two Piece. I absolutely hate HATE when i flank someone (example, gridlock someone's waiting for their opponent to pick up the boomshot so they are lancering behind that one car) and i get right up to them and i think to myself "hmm should i just go with what i always go with the two piece? maybe this time i'll just shoot him in the back"

Boom i shoot him in the back, it rolls off his shoulder and either he runs away or turns around and manages to kill me. This is what the two piece is used for.

Personally, melee's effectiveness should stay, should it be as prominent as it is now? maybe not from the front, but there is no reason to nerf it like everything else being nerfed.

Seriously, i really want to know what some of you in here want. It seems like everything that works in this game you want completely gone or tweaked. The argument from Profess is that i'm mad cuz the way I play is being tweaked, yet he wants his way to work? A lot of people play with the sniper, the two piece, the shotgun, etc and you don't think those people wont complain? That's a lot of people, mind you. Basically what is happening here is one crowd complaining for change so their style of play can be more dominate against the others. Getting lancerd from a distance isn't exactly peachy either, especially considering it take a whole lot less talent getting a lancer down then it does dueling someone with a shotgun.

Lancer you point and shoot vs dodging,maneuvering, strifing and dueling. Not everybody can use the shotgun effectively, everyone that plays gears can use the lancer.

It's all perplexing to me and highly annoying but it's what happened to Bungie and halo. The overtweaking ended up watering down the experience of the original. The game is played very balanced as it is. It's just not very forgiving for lack of skill. essentially, some people want a more forgiving system of play.

[OverKill]

2-Piecing is like the BxR or BxB of Halo it likely won't be in the next game or it will less prominent, it's a crutch that a lot of people will be disappointed that it's because it is a definite kill and the shotgun wasn't intended to be the primary weapon.

Wallbouncing wasn't intended to be in the game either, in fact you couldn't do it before 3rd patch. So it too will be gone in Gears 2. Epic has said that they aren't fan of the all the shotty spam, so that means this is gone too.

your point about the BxR/BxB is intriguing to me because for some reason i've always thought of those as 'glitches' - which made me wonder; what separates a glitch from a button-sequenced attack?

then i remembered that the BxR/BxB are used to cancel animations, making them glitches

the 2-piece doesn't cancel anything...guaranteed kill - sure, cheap - maybe, glitching - no

i've always used the 2-piece as a quick hit kill maneuver. It is also, IMO, an excellent equalizer to host advantage and lag issues. i've never had a problem with it being it done to me or doing it.

with regards to bouncing; i've heard mixed comments about when it 'originally' started; if it was before the patches and so on, so i won't comment on that

again though, i don't see why people hate it. It just allows a player to quickly get around the map and helps when you are outnumbered. It helped evolve shotgun duels, rather than having two or more players simply circle each other for 3 minutes

both may well be gone in Gears 2 and i would miss them because they are viable tactics that people use everyday online, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal

[C. Freeman]

2-Piecing is like the BxR or BxB of Halo it likely won't be in the next game or it will less prominent, it's a crutch that a lot of people will be disappointed that it's because it is a definite kill and the shotgun wasn't intended to be the primary weapon.

Wallbouncing wasn't intended to be in the game either, in fact you couldn't do it before 3rd patch. So it too will be gone in Gears 2. Epic has said that they aren't fan of the all the shotty spam, so that means this is gone too.

I usually agree with you because you are usually the voice of reason on this forum, but I disagree with both of your statements. 2 piecing isn't a crutch; it is a technique to deal with potentially flawed hit detection. I prefer to not do it since it wastes the time of the melee, but there is no guarantee that one shot from point blank will gib or down as it should.

Also, I don't wallbounce, but it was around before the third patch.

[WaldoRtk7]

Unreal.

Ok, so instead of someone two piecing you from behind would you rather them just chainsaw you? Chainsawing is higher percentage kill than a two piece from the back. Also, Cliffy already stated in an interview that if someone is right up to you that a shotgun blast to the face should kill you. That got that close, they deserve the kill.

So, again, what is wrong with the two piece? I've already told you why people use the Two Piece. I absolutely hate HATE when i flank someone (example, gridlock someone's waiting for their opponent to pick up the boomshot so they are lancering behind that one car) and i get right up to them and i think to myself "hmm should i just go with what i always go with the two piece? maybe this time i'll just shoot him in the back"

Boom i shoot him in the back, it rolls off his shoulder and either he runs away or turns around and manages to kill me. This is what the two piece is used for.

Personally, melee's effectiveness should stay, should it be as prominent as it is now? maybe not from the font, but there is no reason to nerf it like everything else being nerfed.

There is nothing wrong with a 2-piece, but as I said it's another button combo and a crutch, it's in the same class as the old weapon slide. It's fine to use it but I choose not to, my reasoning is that I don't want to become dependent on something that isn't going to be around forever.

And I agree that if some one is able to get close enough with shotgun you should die and that player deserved the kill. But people abuse the lag, horrible netcode, and screw cover and run straight forward towards the other team and aim to only 2-piece. If you could be lancered down like it will be in Gear 2 than I wouldn't have a problem with small to moderate use. But EVERYONE and their Grand Mother uses the damn 2-piece all the time. When the game changes, I won't be at an disadvantage because I have choosen to only use it once and a blue moon.

There are multiple ways to kill someone for behind, a pistol beat down and chainsaw are some of the fastest. I don't like depending on button combos, never have.

[WaldoRtk7]

I usually agree with you because you are usually the voice of reason on this forum, but I disagree with both of your statements. 2 piecing isn't a crutch; it is a technique to deal with potentially flawed hit detection. I prefer to not do it since it wastes the time of the melee, but there is no guarantee that one shot from point blank will gib or down as it should.

Also, I don't wallbounce, but it was around before the third patch.

I describe a crutch as something that a player is dependent on, 2-piecing is a crutch for most ranked players. If you asked or told them not too don't it well they couldn't. They need it for kills and to be successful in a match, hence a crutch.

As to Wallbouncing, you couldn't get off cover prior to the 3rd patch without pressing A. 2nd patch actually held you into cover.

[Birdy Man Bird]

There is nothing wrong with a 2-piece, but as I said it's another button combo and a crutch, it's in the same class as the old weapon slide. It's fine to use it but I choose not to, my reasoning is that I don't want to become dependent on something that isn't going to be around forever.

And I agree that if some one is able to get close enough with shotgun you should die and that player deserved the kill. But people abuse the lag, horrible netcode, and screw cover and run straight forward towards the other team and aim to only 2-piece. If you could be lancered down like it will be in Gear 2 than I wouldn't have a problem with small to moderate use. But EVERYONE and their Grand Mother uses the damn 2-piece all the time. When the game changes, I won't be at an disadvantage because I have choosen to only use it once and a blue moon.

There are multiple ways to kill someone for behind, a pistol beat down and chainsaw are some of the fastest. I don't like depending on button combos, never have.

Well, umm, ok. I don't even know how to reply to that. You choose not to use tactics and strategy that wins games and gets you kills in a game that is 2 years in, that's fine. I guess you have some kind of morals or whatever.

Fact is, it is in the game now, and using it is just a sign of being good at the game. Once Gears 2 comes out i'm sure there will be other instances where people use a specific set of skills or techniques to achieve success at the game.

What are you going to do then? not use them? wait for Gears of War 3 to come out and tweak them out of the game again? Don't you think that's a bit ridiculous?

I mean, people complained about the 3 shot pistol and power weapon/power up timing in Halo Ce. So they changed it, but then people complained about the button combo and BR in Halo2. Right?

Good players will always find a way. Remember that, you just have to live with it.

[TANK828]

The Lancer does take skill at a distance, you have to account for bullet lag, rolls, aim for body parts sticking out and know when to use it and not the shotgun to help a buddy in a fight.

Generally shotgun duels I see result in strafing and blind firing with very little skill involved so I'm not gonna say one takes more skill than the other.

But on to the actual topic.

I don't like the idea of planting mines but who knows it may spice up the gameplay and make it better. I still need to see the blast radius, activation radius, and damage (as well as playing the game itself) before I could make any kind of judgement.

I do like the new flashbang/smokes though, they'll come in handy.

[WaldoRtk7]

Well, umm, ok. I don't even know how to reply to that. You choose not to use tactics and strategy that wins games and gets you kills in a game that is 2 years in, that's fine. I guess you have some kind of morals or whatever.

It's the fact, I don't need those combo's to win. I have always played with a higher moral standard than most gamers. Longshot: I aim for Headshots, Chainsaw: Never use it when the teams are uneven because someone quit, Grenades: Don't Tag unless I have too, Shotgun: Never 2 piece.


Fact is, it is in the game now, and using it is just a sign of being good at the game. Once Gears 2 comes out i'm sure there will be other instances where people use a specific set of skills or techniques to achieve success at the game.

Using it is a choice and no way shows skill. I don't consider pressing buttons as skill, it's pressing buttons. Skill is in timing and execution of a strategy or tactic, the skill is in the mind of the gamer and knowing when and what to do. Never give any credit to the buttons getting pressed that isn't a basis of skill, cause any idiot can hit 2 buttons and kill someone.


What are you going to do then? not use them? wait for Gears of War 3 to come out and tweak them out of the game again? Don't you think that's a bit ridiculous?

The same thing I do know, play by my standards. I play for perfection, the absence of me making errors and capitalizing on my opponents. That's what seperates m from most of the field, I'm playing to counter. Just cause something is in the game doesn't mean I have to use it, I don't see it as a disadvantage, just different style of play.


I mean, people complained about the 3 shot pistol and power weapon/power up timing in Halo Ce. So they changed it, but then people complained about the button combo and BR in Halo2. Right?

Good players will always find a way. Remember that, you just have to live with it.

Good players will always find a way to get better, I just choose to do it with out the "techniques" everyone else abuses.

[iLLusiion]

I describe a crutch as something that a player is dependent on, 2-piecing is a crutch for most ranked players. If you asked or told them not too don't it well they couldn't. They need it for kills and to be successful in a match, hence a crutch.

As to Wallbouncing, you couldn't get off cover prior to the 3rd patch without pressing A. 2nd patch actually held you into cover.

Like having to press A to get off of cover would really hinder any good player from Wallbouncing? On a laggy connection I have to press A to get off of cover anyway and, let's face it, most of the connections are laggy. I am still a good Wallbouncer, regardless of having to press A to get off of cover.

As for the 2piecing... Seriously now.. The producers may not have thought about it in the beginning.. But it does take a little skill. When you melee your opponent you still need to quickly turn and fire before he can just fire. Unless, of course, you hit him from the back.

For instance... Let's say I'm in a Shotgun battle with someone, and my accuracy for that battle is... Not good... Then, I go for the 2piece. I melee him, and somehow my shot misses even though my cursor was on him: He kills me in one shot. From the other side: I actually successfully perform the 2piece and now he is dead.

From what I have gathered; do to lag there is only a 65% chance of your 2piece working, even if you did EVERYTHING correct. This is because of lag.

Now then... Someone argue with that logic.

[HeadhunterHBN]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

Spike grenades in Halo are useful, if someones chasing you, you attach it to the wall beside you, and the spikes fire in one direction, instantly killing an oppenant outside of the blast radius of a plasma, also useful on isolation with the hole in the floot, attach one to the ground below the hole and anyone coming down, will be spiked to death mid-air.

On topic - people are only going to use the grenades to cover their back while they camp with a sniper, they here a bang, either the enemy dies, or is severly weaked, all they do is whip out a shotgun and fire, or thump them.

Finally, keep in mind that these grenades will more than likely have the ability to be shot from the wall, and only strategically placed grenades will be effective.

[Wisdom Thumbs]

It's the fact, I don't need those combo's to win. I have always played with a higher moral standard than most gamers. Longshot: I aim for Headshots, Chainsaw: Never use it when the teams are uneven because someone quit, Grenades: Don't Tag unless I have too, Shotgun: Never 2 piece.

Using it is a choice and no way shows skill. I don't consider pressing buttons as skill, it's pressing buttons. Skill is in timing and execution of a strategy or tactic, the skill is in the mind of the gamer and knowing when and what to do. Never give any credit to the buttons getting pressed that isn't a basis of skill, cause any idiot can hit 2 buttons and kill someone.

The same thing I do know, play by my standards. I play for perfection, the absence of me making errors and capitalizing on my opponents. That's what seperates m from most of the field, I'm playing to counter. Just cause something is in the game doesn't mean I have to use it, I don't see it as a disadvantage, just different style of play.

Good players will always find a way to get better, I just choose to do it with out the "techniques" everyone else abuses.

Waldo scares me. I would never challenge Waldo. :eek:

[OverKill]

Spike grenades in Halo are useful, if someones chasing you, you attach it to the wall beside you, and the spikes fire in one direction, instantly killing an oppenant outside of the blast radius of a plasma, also useful on isolation with the hole in the floot, attach one to the ground below the hole and anyone coming down, will be spiked to death mid-air.

On topic - people are only going to use the grenades to cover their back while they camp with a sniper, they here a bang, either the enemy dies, or is severly weaked, all they do is whip out a shotgun and fire, or thump them.

Finally, keep in mind that these grenades will more than likely have the ability to be shot from the wall, and only strategically placed grenades will be effective.

didn't say they can't be useful, but it doesn't mean they are necessary

[Birdy Man Bird]

It's the fact, I don't need those combo's to win. I have always played with a higher moral standard than most gamers. Longshot: I aim for Headshots, Chainsaw: Never use it when the teams are uneven because someone quit, Grenades: Don't Tag unless I have too, Shotgun: Never 2 piece.



Using it is a choice and no way shows skill. I don't consider pressing buttons as skill, it's pressing buttons. Skill is in timing and execution of a strategy or tactic, the skill is in the mind of the gamer and knowing when and what to do. Never give any credit to the buttons getting pressed that isn't a basis of skill, cause any idiot can hit 2 buttons and kill someone.



The same thing I do know, play by my standards. I play for perfection, the absence of me making errors and capitalizing on my opponents. That's what seperates m from most of the field, I'm playing to counter. Just cause something is in the game doesn't mean I have to use it, I don't see it as a disadvantage, just different style of play.



Good players will always find a way to get better, I just choose to do it with out the "techniques" everyone else abuses.


All your points are completely mute. Pressing buttons is part of the game, who ever said anything about that involving skill? If you got two pieced that's because you allowed yourself to get two pieced. That is showing lack of skill on your part considering everything you have in your arsenal to stop it.

I think you fail to understand the concept of a two piece. Most anyone would not do a mad dash straight at you and then two piece. Most of the time those are done with your back turned. Getting to you is what took the strategy or skill, the two piece is the finish, there's no difference between that, the chainsaw, a lancer down, or anything else.

And knowing when to two piece is knowledge, knowledge a lot of people do not have. I absolutely hate when i'm downed by someone and that person is approaching me to finish me off while a teammate is directly behind him.

Instead of meleeing him to prevent him from shooting me, that person will attempt to kill him with a shot of some sort which most of the time fails.

You should reconsider your complaints, because if the shotgun wasn't inconsistent you'd die a lot faster, and probably a lot more. The two piece does take time to pulll of, a straight shotgun blast that worked everytme would be a lot more deadly.

Think about it.

[Carmine Pwns]

WTF do u mean pulling a bungie??? bungie is a really great developer and has provided fans with a great series. and epic is doing there fantastic series right now. dude just dont say that anymore cuz its an oxy-moron.....

[Birdy Man Bird]

WTF do u mean pulling a bungie??? bungie is a really great developer and has provided fans with a great series. and epic is doing there fantastic series right now. dude just dont say that anymore cuz its an oxy-moron.....

Bungie has consistently killed off great aspects of their game to much backlash. Forget the sales figures, forget that the game has been riding the success of Halo Ce for two solid installments for a second and realize that the overall experience has only gotten worse over the years.

Halo 3 online is tracking worse than Halo 2 did even though the 360 is the number 1 console right now (not including the wii, different demographic)

[Carmine Pwns]

Halo 3 online is tracking worse than Halo 2 did

dude u obviosly dont know anything about halo or bungie! halo 2 had its 777,777 game played online about 2 months ago. but halo 3 is going at a faster rate then that, that it will probably break that in a year or so. that would be faster then any other game.

[Birdy Man Bird]

dude u obviosly dont know anything about halo or bungie! halo 2 had its 777,777 game played online about 2 months ago. but halo 3 is going at a faster rate then that, that it will probably break that in a year or so. that would be faster then any other game.

It's something called ratios my friend. Learn them. Halo 2 had a lot less people on xbox live at the time. And I know more about this company and about that series than I should.

I've been playing halo since the day it launched. I knew both Halo Ce and Halo 2 like the back of my hand. Halo 3 is pure utter junk.

[Carmine Pwns]

watever dude ur just another halo hater to me.

[Birdy Man Bird]

watever dude ur just another halo hater to me.

uhh, OK? i loved Halo Ce, and I enjoyed Halo 2 post patch. Halo has been by far my favorite series in gaming. But i won't lie to myself and say Halo 3 multiplayer isn't a watered down piece of crap. It is.

It ruined the greatness of what Halo Ce achieved- the first true skilled shooter on the console.

[Carmine Pwns]

.....again....halo hater.....

[JAGX]

Anyone think that maybe tagging the wall will free up your flank so you can focus attention elsewhere/move out? Besides, It's not like you can crouch in this game, so all grenades will likely be at eye level (no under tables or furniture bs) so it's your fault if you get hit.

I think that this will only hurt those MLG shotty run-and-gunners. But you know what? Now that they fixed the lancer (with regard to host) nobody will run around trying to shotgun you because you'll get downed anyways.

It's simply another layer of gameplay that will take more skill to add into your overall strategy. But again... wait til' the game comes out.

Move cautiously soldier.

[Birdy Man Bird]

Anyone think that maybe tagging the wall will free up your flank so you can focus attention elsewhere/move out? Besides, It's not like you can crouch in this game, so all grenades will likely be at eye level (no under tables or furniture bs) so it's your fault if you get hit.

I think that this will only hurt those MLG shotty run-and-gunners. But you know what? Now that they fixed the lancer (with regard to host) nobody will run around trying to shotgun you because you'll get downed anyways.

It's simply another layer of gameplay that will take more skill to add into your overall strategy. But again... wait til' the game comes out.

Move cautiously soldier.

Out of curiosity have you ever tried to move in on two guys lancering?

[xBTMx]

I have a feeling the smoke grenades will be used at random to try and stun people far from you

[Mortificus]

There are multiple ways to kill someone for behind, a pistol beat down and chainsaw are some of the fastest. I don't like depending on button combos, never have.


whats the difference between a 2 peice (punch then shoot, 2 buttons) and a pistol beat down (either 2 punches, 2 buttons, or a pistol whip, 3 shots and a punch, 4 buttons?)



Halo Ce- the first true skilled shooter on the console.

fun, yes, skilled, depends, is everyone running around with the uber pistol? then no, not skilled

[Birdy Man Bird]

is everyone running around with the uber pistol? then no, not skilled


WTF does that mean? do you even know what the term "skill" means? it's like saying "omg, is everyone running around with a hockey stick" during a hockey game.

[Mortificus]

WTF does that mean? it's like saying "omg, is everyone running around with a hockey stick" during a hockey game.

the pistol in halo CE could kill all the way across Blood gulch in 3 hits, it took no skill at all.

edit: and now that i think about it, are you saying you have to have the pistol to play halo CE? people in hockey are reliant on their sticks, so that comparison just said that the only gun you can play with is the pistol


do you even know what the term "skill" means?

i know that the halo CE pistol took no skill, i know the halo 3 BR takes no skill (i have a freind who cant even use the SMG's, but can almost always pull out 15 kills with a BR), and i know that with the current net code, the shotgun in this game has no skill, its just like playing russian roulette with more than one gun, and only one of them has ammo.

[Birdy Man Bird]

the pistol in halo CE could kill all the way across Blood gulch in 3 hits, it took no skill at all.

edit: and now that i think about it, are you saying you have to have the pistol to play halo CE? people in hockey are reliant on their sticks, so that comparison just said that the only gun you can play with is the pistol



i know that the halo CE pistol took no skill, i know the halo 3 BR takes no skill (i have a freind who cant even use the SMG's, but can almost always pull out 15 kills with a BR), and i know that with the current net code, the shotgun in this game has no skill, its just like playing russian roulette with more than one gun, and only one of them has ammo.

Logic like this blows my mind. There are different skills involved in using different guns but that does not mean one equals the other.

Coloring and Brain surgery both take skill, but one skill is infinitely harder than the other skill to obtain. That same principle applies to using a BR vs an SMG. Maybe you're friend just doesn't like using an SMG, i know i absolutely hate using an AR in Halo3. I just don't find fun and it's annoying being killed by it.

Splash weapons in any shooting game ever created was always viewed as annoying and talentless. Why you insist that the pistol and brs (two precision weapons) took no skill is beyond comprehension.

The Halo Ce pistol was a powerful weapon that needed to be mastered by any player wanting success at the game. It was a starting weapon that everyone possessed essentially giving anyone a fighting chance when seeing their opponent.

This allowed other weapons, map control, spawn knowledge, and power ups to be vital things to obtain and learn.

I don't even know why i waste my time with some of you.

[Mortificus]

1)Coloring and Brain surgery both take skill, but one skill is infinitely harder than the other skill to obtain. That same principle applies to using a BR vs an SMG. Maybe you're friend just doesn't like using an SMG, i know i absolutely hate using an AR in Halo3. I just don't find fun and it's annoying being killed by it.

2)Splash weapons in any shooting game ever created was always viewed as annoying and talentless. Why you insist that the pistol and brs (two precision weapons) took no skill is beyond comprehension.

3)The Halo Ce pistol was a powerful weapon that needed to be mastered by any player wanting success at the game. It was a starting weapon that everyone possessed essentially giving anyone a fighting chance when seeing their opponent.


1)maybe, maybe not, but all guns are the same: point, pull, repeat

2) they both take few shots to the head to kill, and thats not that hard of a thing to hit in halo.

3) why cant people get actually get something when they pick up the power weapons anymore? honestly, if i pick up the rokkit lawnchair, why do you have to start with something that can kill it? why cant you try to get the weapon first?

one quick question: are you MLG?