WAR-Dawn Revisited [Beta 02] [Pics] [1/25/08] [PC]

[IzaFly]

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Server IP to play it at: To be announced
Download: Beta 2!!! Mirror 1 (http://files.filefront.com/WAR+Dawn+Revisited+Beta+02/;9508387;/fileinfo.html)
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Please read Beta update notes

1. Name: Dawn Revisited
2. Version: Beta 02
3. Compatibility: UT3
4. Description: Remake of 2k4's Dawn. We have now revisited Dawn with our new technology.
6. Credits: Hourences (Original 2k4 Version), Flybye & DeadSoul
7. Website for further discussion: http://zerofrag.com

Known Issues:
Incorrect map on minimap and main map
DM preview image in Warfare selection screen.
Medium bot support (no aerial support from one side)
Core Explosion cameras may be slightly misaligned
No Orb
Base unfinished (should be finalized by Beta 3)

Instructions
Place files in this folder:
[Drive Letter]\Documents and Settings\[Whatever your account is]\My Documents\My Games\Unreal Tournament 3\UTGame\Published\CookedPC\CustomMaps
If the folder doesn't exit, then create it.

Comments
This is my very first attempt at creating a map from scratch. I needed a map for my clan community to use with our leagues, and I hope the rest of the WAR community can also enjoy it.

MUCH of the terrain is unfinished and bases are unfinished. We will be adding a great amount of detail to the bases and work on the terrain in order to remove the tiled effect. I will also be adding much more foliage.

FPS is a big concern, so please post your numbers and system specs. Please let me know of any issues you find in the map. All comments & suggestions are welcomed.

The Orb is currently not in Beta01. I will be looking into creating a dual setup config for the map. One with and the other without Orbs. I personally feel it will be interesting to see how UT3 plays out without it. :)


List of problems found in Beta1:
1) Require no jumping on to platforms from most angles
2) Remove thrusters from rear of ship
3) Adding a greater amount of detail to the bases
4) Explore getting stuck on mushrooms
5) Vehicle positions on the pads
6) Smooth out terrain a bit
7) Add shield belt next to satellite dish on top of bases
8) Adjust direction of ALL player starts
9) Shortening the map

Beta2 Notes:
1) Installed collision volumes to facilitate walking onto vehicle, turret and node platforms.
2) Removed thrusters from rear of crashed ship
3) Realigned several vehicles
4) Readjusted all player starts
5) Added more detail to map
6) Adjusted occlusion, terrain, and speed tree settings in hopes of raising FPS
7) Resized map
8) Elevators repaired
9) Added several health options around prime nodes
10) Decreased resolution of background terrains
11) Enhanced the sky
12) Smoothed out terrain

Playable area comparison (UT units):
War-Dawn:50,000 x 30,000
War-Dusk: 28,000 x 18,000
War-PowerSurge: 20,000 x 24,000
War-Serenity: 40,000 x 20,000
War-Torlan: 28,000 x 27,000

[AnubanUT2]

Thank you very much. I have been waiting for this one for several days ... I really appreciate this remake. :D

[AnubanUT2]

At LONG last ... Yaaaayyy!!! Seriously though this is what I have been waiting for so excuse me for my excitement. Thank you so much for making this happen. I really enjoy Dawn from UT2K4 so this is really fantastic stuff for me. :D

[IzaFly]

Great. :D

Remember, it's not finished yet. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Great. :D

Remember, it's not finished yet. :)

I know that is actually even more of a reason to be excited because I know you are dedicated to make this a full experience with good bot pathing, better textures, fixed elevators, etc. So while I am playing when I run into issues at least I know there is a chance that it will get fixed ... some people just release something and then move on no matter if it is buggy or not.

[Mr.UglyPants]

Yeah, great work IzaFly, i can't wait to see this final.

[Catalase]

Not the greatest looking sky...something about it seems dull compared to the 2K4 version. The rest of it looks to be shaping up nicely. :)

[Mr.UglyPants]

Does it really need to have the revisited tagged onto it?

[ShadeMistress]

Awesome, I really loved Dawn and have been looking forward to this. So, thanks a lot, I'm downloading now and will give some feedback after I et to play it a little.

[IzaFly]

Not the greatest looking sky...something about it seems dull compared to the 2K4 version. The rest of it looks to be shaping up nicely. :)It's a clear morning. :)

2k4 had more clouds, but there is a more technical reason. UT3 fog acts like...well...REAL fog! If you get in the Raptor and start going up, you see how the fog thins out and you begin to see more of the sky and the sun.

I played around with 5+ different skys. Unless someone wants to make me a new wrap around sky texture with more clouds and the sun in the dawn position, this one will have to stay.


Does it really need to have the revisited tagged onto it? Unfortunately, yes. We wanted to keep the original name, but it can cause SERIOUS complications with the server redirects & clients if other people begin to come out with different Dawn variants, and none of them decide to change their map name.

[Mr.UglyPants]

Alright, so i had a play through it. Firstly I somehow doubt any ported over Onslought map will have the same play style feel, in which case it needs addition and extensions or things taken away to give it gameplay feel (cause UT2k4 and UT3 are quite different, hell on foot people can take out mostly anything if your good enough.).

- Center Nodes should have AVRiLs
- center Node roads are way too bumpy
- I'd be nice to see more air combat happening/ ground combat, maybe have more Scorpions/ Raptors on the map, since it is quite large.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9396/againtoobarelz9.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=againtoobarelz9.jpg)
- The front of the bases are extremely bare and fugly to look at. Add some stuff to it, who cares if said stuff wasn't in the 2k4 version of Dawn, UT3's Dawn will have to be different, look at UT3's Torlan to UT2k4's, plays alot better and has a few changes, some noticeable others aren't.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/5144/easywaytogetnodedp5.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=easywaytogetnodedp5.jpg)
- Defending teams can easily protect this node with just rushing in the Hellbender and Goliath whilst Defenders of the imcompleted node/ completed have to wait for backup to come by which takes a good 15 seconds to do from center nodes.
-Add a second Scorpion
- Plus that position allow for the defenders a lot of cover whilst they take down the Node
- If their isn't a AVRiL at these Nodes, they should be.
-Dunno why it takes so long to get from center nodes to pictured node, i don't think it took as long in UT2k4, even on the hoverboard it takes forever.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7402/getridofthesteamatbackgy2.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=getridofthesteamatbackgy2.jpg)
-The blur effects kill fps
-Why is a downed ship still firing its thrusters anyways? Get rid of the effect.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3167/usuallycantjustwalkuptozd3.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=usuallycantjustwalkuptozd3.jpg)
-Many of the vehicle pads you'll get stuck (not stuck but you'll stop moving forward) when trying get on them
- A few of the vehicles, aren't really centered (like this Hellbender)

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7229/waytooddwb4.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waytooddwb4.jpg)
-These guys are really out of place, if you subdued the color and added more of them around the map it'd make sense, right now they are out of place.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8892/waytoobaredv0.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waytoobaredv0.jpg)
-The inside of the base is also bare, along with the repetitive grass texture inside it.
-Maybe have vehicles or spawns on platforms or stuff like that
-The texture for the tunnel arch is quite repetitive.


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5599/youwillgetstuckfk2.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=youwillgetstuckfk2.jpg)
-On a few of the nodes (like Center) you won't smoothly go on the pad, like a couple times you need to jump to get on, quite odd.

For movemet;
Maybe have a few of the hills accessible for Hover-boarders to go over like what Epic did in Torlan near the Prime Node


For the bases;
-Look at how the bases in Dusk and Torlan were made, for heavens sake the bases are just HUGE, they need to be smaller

Overall its good, can't wait for the next Beta, i'll probably play through it again and give more feedback.

[nomadicus]

I have to agree about being stopped at the node and vehicle pads. Having to jump up is a pain. I took a look at the collision mesh and it would seem that one could walk onto them without problem. But that is not the case. Perhaps shrink the z axis of the pads itself or lower the whole prefab a touch.

I like climbin the center node mushrooms. But it is way too easyto get stuck (if you fall). Crouching should let one get from under them but does not. Also, I used to hop on them to get to the rock and deny the opposite center node. I'd like to be able to still do that (although I know true node denial is not possible).

Taking shape and for the first beta is very, very nice.

[AnubanUT2]

I'll make my observations simple ... so far I am in love with this remake. I realize you have more work to do on it so I will save any deep analysis for the next version. But man you are definitely 100% on the right track imo. I can see I will be playing this Warfare map all the time once it is completed. Really everything for the most part feels right to me. Once you add some more eye candy and fix the sticking issues, etc. this is going to see a lot of action on servers. I'll be looking forward to the next version. :)

[Dozinator]

Fly and Deadsoul my UT Bros. :D

The Dawn Map looks awesome and for those that download this map.

Zerofrag.com is the UT3 Warfare Community were we Test Warfare maps.
There you will find good players and servers peeps.;)

This site is great for Warfare Map builders to get good feedback.

Much goes out to Fly and Deadsoul for the time they have put into remaking one of the best 2k4 ONS maps. Thank you guys.

You guys Rock. I can not wait to test it.;)

[IzaFly]

....- Center Nodes should have AVRiLsBut they didn't in 2k4. Thus I didn't place any.

- center Node roads are way too bumpy2k4 terrain was extremely smooth. I wanted to bump it up a bit, but I realize I may have over done it. Other's seem to be stating the same thing. I'll be smoothing it out.

- I'd be nice to see more air combat happening/ ground combat, maybe have more Scorpions/ Raptors on the map, since it is quite large.Vehicle count is exactly as it was in 2k4. There are currently 20 vehicles:
Base x 2: Tank, Raptor, Manta, Bender
Prime Node x 2: Scorp, Manta
Centre Node x 2: Bender, Manta
Tank Node x 2: Raptor, Tank

I created this map for my competition matches. Which means it had to be exactly as before in order to disrupt the mechanics of the map as little as possible. I understand more vehicles may make play funner, but think of the consequences. Do you really want to be at a node charging it with 6 incoming Mantas? :p

If someone wishes to create a new version with more "stuff." More weapons, more vehicles, more of anything they wish, then I will be more than happy if they did it and called it a different version. The more maps we have for the community, the better. :)

- The front of the bases are extremely bare and fugly to look at.I agree with you 110%. We rushed this base out for the first Beta. A LOT more detail will be going into it

....- Defending teams can easily protect this node with just rushing in the Hellbender and Goliath whilst Defenders of the imcompleted node/ completed have to wait for backup to come by which takes a good 15 seconds to do from center nodes. Just as it was in 2k4. It comes down to a matter of tactics. Attacking team is unable to hold prime. Thus, you switch over to their tank node. Will defending team be able to take down prime, then work their way across the centre nodes or just do a complete push to the attacker's tank node? Fixing a map isn't as simple as adding more vehicles or weapons. It mostly comes down to player tactics

-Add a second Scorpion
- If their isn't a AVRiL at these Nodes, they should be.I feel this would be overkill. The team must have a chance to retake the node.
- Plus that position allow for the defenders a lot of cover whilst they take down the Node

-Dunno why it takes so long to get from center nodes to pictured node, i don't think it took as long in UT2k4, even on the hoverboard it takes forever.Yes, we are considering changing the length.

-Why is a downed ship still firing its thrusters anyways? Get rid of the effect.Gas leakage. :D

-Many of the vehicle pads you'll get stuck (not stuck but you'll stop moving forward) when trying get on themGO back to 2k4 and you will realize some of the pads also require jumping.

- A few of the vehicles, aren't really centered (like this Hellbender)Will fix.

-These guys are really out of place, if you subdued the color and added more of them around the map it'd make sense, right now they are out of place.Yeah. Eventually, I'll figure out what to do with them. :p

-The inside of the base is also bare, along with the repetitive grass texture inside it.
-Maybe have vehicles or spawns on platforms or stuff like that
-The texture for the tunnel arch is quite repetitive.All these will be fixed.

-On a few of the nodes (like Center) you won't smoothly go on the pad, like a couple times you need to jump to get on, quite odd.Again, in 2k4, you had to jump on them from certain positions, but I'll be tweaking the terrain around them a bit.

For movemet;
Maybe have a few of the hills accessible for Hover-boarders to go over like what Epic did in Torlan near the Prime NodeMany of the inside of the canyon was never really accessible. But most are from the outer ring. At many points, if your hoverboard gets stuck, you can easily jump and it will make it across.

For the bases;
-Look at how the bases in Dusk and Torlan were made, for heavens sake the bases are just HUGE, they need to be smallerWe are considering changing the map's length.

Overall its good, can't wait for the next Beta, i'll probably play through it again and give more feedback.Great :D

[IzaFly]

I have to agree about being stopped at the node and vehicle pads. Having to jump up is a pain. I took a look at the collision mesh and it would seem that one could walk onto them without problem.The REAL problem is the waling dynamics of UT3 are completely different from 2k4. 2k4 was VERY forgiving in the sense that it would allow you to walk over far steeper areas than in 2k4. But even so, you still had to jump to many of the pads in 2k4. But I'll be editing the nodes so that most of the areas around them can be easily walked on.

I like climbin the center node mushrooms. But it is way too easyto get stuck (if you fall). Crouching should let one get from under them but does not. I'll probably be adding some volumes to them then.


Taking shape and for the first beta is very, very nice.Thx. :D And thx for the rest of the nice comments. :D

[DeadSoul]

For the bases;
-Look at how the bases in Dusk and Torlan were made, for heavens sake the bases are just HUGE, they need to be smaller


The bases are currently scaled to the X / Y or the map. You might recall that the original terrain was the start of the project, so the base was mocked up to fit into that space.

Scale of the map has been an ongoing discussion and something that we are going to examine after it it play tested on the server over the holiday. Once the scale settled the base will be finished out.

The bases are very boring now and that was my intention. The focus of this beta is the map playability, tactics, terrain and scale. Once we get those nailed down, based on the feedback from this beta, I will finish out the bases in all their detailed, lighted and shadowed glory.

(I know, lighted is not a word :-)

Speaking of play testing. It will be on the PhX public warfare server tonight through Thursday (12.24 - 12.26) if people want to get into the play testing and provide feedback. I strongly recommend having the map installed locally before you join. While I do have the map on the redirect and everything is working correctly the 60MB download takes a LONG time. UT3 *still* does not have compression support so the full 60mb map has to be downloaded :-(.

[AnubanUT2]

Glad to see that you are pretty much going for a remake with the same amount of vehicles and no extra added stuff ... good ... I am glad about that. I really was looking forward to a straight remake of Dawn, just with the better looking UT3 graphics, and not a total re-imagining of what Dawn could or should be. Not to knock my friend UPs suggestions at all but like you said let someone else do a version with more vehicles, no jumppads, lots of extra added visual stuff that is unnecessary (Dawn was just perfect the way it was), etc. So yeah I am still really looking forward to the next version. This version was fun enough but with improvements and better bot work it is going to be a lot more fun to test. Thanks again for the great remake. :)

[Catalase]

I understand the need for the addition to the name to prevent version conflicts but...at least consider alternatives to 'Revisited'? Something that keeps it grounded in the UT universe as opposed to breaking the immersion.

A few off the top of my head....WAR-PrimalDawn, WAR-EarlyDawn, WAR-LastDawn....not really good names, but surely better than WAR-Dawn-Revisited and the other such names (eg: 'Remix', 'Redux', and so on).

[AnubanUT2]

I understand the need for the addition to the name to prevent version conflicts but...at least consider alternatives to 'Revisited'? Something that keeps it grounded in the UT universe as opposed to breaking the immersion.

A few off the top of my head....WAR-PrimalDawn, WAR-EarlyDawn, WAR-LastDawn....not really good names, but surely better than WAR-Dawn-Revisited and the other such names (eg: 'Remix', 'Redux', and so on).

I like PrimalDawn ... there are going to be some real primal acts taking place on this map ... actually sounds like a good idea and something you may want to consider.

[MadCat221]

What is possibly the most uprated-for-the-better of all the returning vehicles is probably the most under-used in the stock game's maps: Please make use of the Paladin!

[Xyx]

I agree about the Revisited part. I'd say that since you're the first, you should get to use WAR-Dawn and everybody else should name their Dawn remakes different, but if you're still worried... how about WAR-NewDawn?

[ShadeMistress]

Well, I just played 3 games on this map and it's pretty spiffy. I like it, but...

Some areas could use just a smidge of smoothing on the terrain, just cuz driving a Hellbender over most of it is a real chore and most times I would prefer to just go on foot...

Also, I often have to double-jump to get on the vehicle platforms to get to the vehicles by the nodes. One way to fix this is to "sink the platforms into the ground (sorta lame). Another is to put angled blocking volumes around the bases so that it looks the same, but the characters can still walk right up to the vehicle. It might make it looks weird when someone appears to be floating a foot up off the ground for a second, but if anyone notices that amongst the carnage, they obviously aren't doing something more important. lol

Anyways, I love the map and will be watching as it progresses and give more feedback.

[CrixMadine]

Really looking forward to the next version of this one, Dawn was one of my favorites! The downed Phoenix bomber brings back memories.:p

[Raze.at]

Some areas could use just a smidge of smoothing on the terrain, just cuz driving a Hellbender over most of it is a real chore and most times I would prefer to just go on foot...


Yeah, that was the same thing that came to my mind when i drove around on your map. It's more like an Offroad track.

It's not a bad map, and i don't want to be mean since i can't do anything in UED, but.....the whole map feels kinda desolate to me. Somethings missing but i don't know what (maybe an awesome skybox?)

[IzaFly]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I'll be smoothing the terrain a bit more. I over did it a bit. 2k4 was EXTREMELY smooth and I can't ever remember the outdoors being that smooth. :p

Guys, about the jumping on the vehicle platforms.....PLAY 2k4 DAWN!!!!! You will see it is the same with most vehicle platforms.

[AnubanUT2]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I'll be smoothing the terrain a bit more. I over did it a bit. 2k4 was EXTREMELY smooth and I can't ever remember the outdoors being that smooth. :p

Guys, about the jumping on the vehicle platforms.....PLAY 2k4 DAWN!!!!! You will see it is the same with most vehicle platforms.

I'm going to play UT2K4 Dawn right now and then immediately play your map ... be back in about 15 minutes. :)

[DeadSoul]

What is possibly the most uprated-for-the-better of all the returning vehicles is probably the most under-used in the stock game's maps: Please make use of the Paladin!

For Dawn, zero. We are doing each of these maps as a dedicated attempt recreate the original in ut3.

For DryIce, you will definably see the new Paladin.

[ShadeMistress]

Guys, about the jumping on the vehicle platforms.....PLAY 2k4 DAWN!!!!!

But, if I wanted to play 2k4 Dawn, I would be playing 2k4, this is UT3. I like to stick to the new.

I can see trying to stay true to the original, but even so, anything that slows down gameplay at all on a map this size just translates to less replay value in the end. Because eventually more polished maps will win out over time.

Keep 'em, fix em, 'tis a good map either way. Was just a suggestion. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Well I just spent some considerable time with them both back to back and here are my suggestions for a true classic remake (although I really think you should have the option for people to play this like Warfare ... this is UT3 and there is a No orb mutator so imo it would be nice to open up this great level for everyone UT2K4 gamers and those new to UT altogether who like the play of UT3):

- First off there was no real uniformity about the platforms in the original Dawn. Some you could just walk over some you had to either jump or use the little mini ramps that are on each platform (power node or vehicle and remember some of the platforms are more sunk into the ground than others on the original). So really if you want to be more true to the original then you need to mix it up some and also add those little mini ramps so people can just run straight up them .. and make sure you haven't missed any platforms ... I believe one or two vehicles were not on platforms.

- The Inner bases do need more detailed work and most importantly you should consider losing the terrain you have for the ground in the interior of the bases as they are only concrete and dirt (in the original) and not green/grassy at all. Also the entrances/exits to the bases need a greater amount of detail ... the original had a good deal of detail on them. And when you get out of the bases instead of just two lights at the mouth of the open middle area there should be structures that the lights are attached to ... again check out the original.

- I feel the size is pretty much dead on ... I walked around and the times were almost exact for reaching the bases just by walking. Good job on the scaling on size ... I don't feel these things need much if any work at all.

- On the side where the Radar thing is you do have the shield belt so good job on not missing that but it should be before the Radar thing and not next to it I believe ... also there is a target painter on the original Dawn so how about a redeemer or some super power up like Berkserk or Invisibility instead. I am reluctant to say use the Invulnerability pickup since that could really gave a team too huge of an advantage, but it is an option.

- On the side with the downed bomber I have three main issues: UP was correct in saying that having the after burners on is kind of pointless and actually takes away from the reality of the crash. Now having the structure burning is fine as that is how the original is ... but the smoke needs work ... right now it looks like a swirling black hole and not smoke from a wreckage so please address that. The last thing is that on this side of the original there is a super health so make sure you add that here ... and in the correct spot. I think it is closer to the Blue base than the red base but I'm not 100% positive.

Well that is what I have to add. You are already going to work on smoothing the terrain, the eye candy in the middle and the bases and the skybox so I won't go into depth on those things. I really do like this remake so far and I can't wait until the next beta to see what improvements you have made. The final is going to be sublime for us Dawn folks ... we just need to make sure the Beta is all ironed out and nothing has been overlooked. :)

BTW I get really good fps (running everything at max with 4xAA) on this map so good job on the optimization so far. That is extremely important to me because I should never have to turn down anything but maybe the AA on any UT3 level (so far all the retail levels have run welll ... unless we are talking about the ones with the bug in them that causes freezing for many of us ... mainly Torlan and Gateway).

[AnubanUT2]

But, if I wanted to play 2k4 Dawn, I would be playing 2k4, this is UT3. I like to stick to the new.



I think he meant as a test so you can see that not all the platforms cam just be walked over ... some of them require you to jump onto them or use those mini ramps.

[Wail of Suicide]

I agree about the Revisited part. I'd say that since you're the first, you should get to use WAR-Dawn and everybody else should name their Dawn remakes different, but if you're still worried... how about WAR-NewDawn?

Agreed. There is no other map named WAR-Dawn, so name it that.
If not WAR-Dawn, then WAR-Dawning -- WAR-NewDawn just doesn't work for me.

[AnubanUT2]

I am not as worried about the name as I am about the other issues ... they are far more important than worrying about naming this map. Heck just leave it at War-Dawn since there never was a War gametype before hence War-Dawn has never existed before. Just as long as we get a killer map with the major issues (if not all of the issues) resolved this map could be called War-MorningBliss for all I care.:p

[IzaFly]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the location of the deemer. ;)

[AnubanUT2]

^^ Couldn't find it and don't remember one being in ONS-Dawn. I'm going to go hunting for it now. :) I guess that it takes the place of the Target Painter? But then shouldn't it go where that is? Oh well it not a huge deal.

[IzaFly]

Hehe....
ONS-Dawn had a deemer and a painter.

Obviously, the deemer was no big deal to put on the map, but we currently don't have a painter equivalent. Which is why I simply put a berzerk in its place.

[AnubanUT2]

The Berserk is a good choice ... I think I mentioned that in my suggestions ... was it already there or did you put it in for the next release?

[IzaFly]

Berserk has been there all along. Check next to the building behind the satellite.

[AnubanUT2]

Berserk has been there all along. Check next to the building behind the satellite.

Well then you have really done well but I wonder why I missed it ... it should be pretty easy to spot like the TP was. Hmmm. Okay ... well did I also miss the superhealth on this level?

[IzaFly]

I didn't put superhealth next to the deemer because we decided it would somewhat defeat the purpose of winning the deemer prize. ;)

[AnubanUT2]

I didn't put superhealth next to the deemer because we decided it would somewhat defeat the purpose of winning the deemer prize. ;)

yeah but man that is an important health pickup on this map ... very important especially since you aren't adding any extra armor ... so please reconsider that decision ... man I really depend on that health being there as I am coming that way.

Also you did remember to put the shield belts in each one of the bases at the top of the base in the front?

And I have been checking ONS-Dawn all over the place for the redeemer and not only can't I find it but bots on Godmode can't find it either. So how about sending me a pm so it doesn't get spoiled for anyone else but I would like to know where it is. Thanks.

Would you like some pics of ONS-Dawn so you can see what spots your version needs to work on? And please take a look at the bomber wreckage on ONS-Dawn and see how perfectly they did that ... that is all I am saying. ;)

[IzaFly]

Well, remember where the deemer was in ONS-Dawn? What object was it hidden under? ;)

I forgo the shield. I remembered the Keg, though. Thanks for reminding me. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Well, remember where the deemer was in ONS-Dawn? What object was it hidden under? ;)

I forgo the shield. I remembered the Keg, though. Thanks for reminding me. :)

Yep you definitely need those 100 shield belts at each of the bases at the top. And nope I never knew that Dawn had a redeemer ... I don't play online and like I said not even the bots on Godlike ever picked up the redeemer though they use the TP with no problems. That's why I think for the sake of everyone that the health should be back in ... plenty of folks are going to miss the redeemer as you can already see.

There is a much bigger problem ... really big that you HAVE to fix ... the distances are not equal when going to the center nodes ... the pretty spot with the lush green and the ponds and the giant mushrooms and blue crystals ... from the red base the distance is much shorter to reach them ... it is almost twice as long from the blue base. It is very easy to notice when you look at the map from up above.

Also the hills are just too short throughout the map. I noticed this because your trees are way to close to the tops of the hills and in Dawn the trees were not nearly as tall compared to the hill peaks (actually take a look at the nodes immediately closest to the bases on the sides and notice how there are trees on levels on the hills themselves and the trees on the ground are really small compared to the hills they are next to). Again take a look at ONS-Dawn and then immediately look at your level. I'm not trying to nitpick but I want this remake to be fantastic as I am sure you do. I just love Dawn. Again my offer of getting you pics still stands ... let me know. :)

[IzaFly]

I still have 2k4 installed. :D No need for pics. :p But thx. :) I've been comparing 2k4 with the new as much as possible. It's hard trying to balance things the way they were with the new mechanics of..well..everything.

Coming across issues like:
1) UT3 Tank can climb steeper hills
2) UT3 Characters do not like the slightest drop in elevation (hence why you can't simply walk on the platforms as easily as 2k4)
3) Raptor behaves different.
4) Manta doesn't jump as high

And who knows what else.

I'll be address the distance issues. Oh, the height is about right. I just decided to use really tall trees. I like trees. :D

So let me know when you find that deemer. ;)

[Sanch3z]

there was a deemer on Dawn? lol, didnt know that....I guess I must have only played that map on servers that had super weapons disabled..

[AnubanUT2]

I still have 2k4 installed. :D No need for pics. :p But thx. :) I've been comparing 2k4 with the new as much as possible. It's hard trying to balance things the way they were with the new mechanics of..well..everything.

Coming across issues like:
1) UT3 Tank can climb steeper hills
2) UT3 Characters do not like the slightest drop in elevation (hence why you can't simply walk on the platforms as easily as 2k4)
3) Raptor behaves different.
4) Manta doesn't jump as high

And who knows what else.

I'll be address the distance issues. Oh, the height is about right. I just decided to use really tall trees. I like trees. :D

So let me know when you find that deemer. ;)

Okay that is cool ... glad to see that you are so dedicated to getting this right ... makes me feel really good about how this level will eventually turn out and so I won't worry so much about giving input. But really you think the height is correct? Okay ... I'll just have to trust you on that. BTW seems yet another person was unaware of the redeemer on Dawn. ;) Get that Keg O health back in place please. :D

[IzaFly]

Sanchez, go find the deemer. :D

The height...was a pain in the butt. When I first imported it, it was WAAAY off. It looked like the Grand Canyon. After some tweaking, it was normal. But then realized it was too short and raised it again. I've had several ONS veterans tell me this height is pretty correct.

[AnubanUT2]

I still have 2k4 installed. :D No need for pics. :p But thx. :) I've been comparing 2k4 with the new as much as possible. It's hard trying to balance things the way they were with the new mechanics of..well..everything.

Coming across issues like:

2) UT3 Characters do not like the slightest drop in elevation (hence why you can't simply walk on the platforms as easily as 2k4)


Don't forget that those raised platforms have little mini ramps. Take a quick look. Those can be used instead of a short jump. Like I said there is actually no uniformity in Dawn except for the little miniramps since they are built into the platform mesh structure.

[AnubanUT2]

FOUND IT!!! :) Cool little spot man ... I can see plenty of folks missing this one ... especially if they don't like how the mesh defies the laws of physics and they may steer clear of it to stay immersed in the reality of the game. ;) I still say with you going for such a true remake you should add the superhealth but I can live with whatever decision you make. Good one though ... it would have never occurred to me. :)

Edit: I went back and found it on the original ONS-Dawn ... actually yours is easier to find ... now if you moved it to how they have it in ONS-Dawn that would be hardcore ... maybe you could do that actually unless it just won't fit. Man I never knew about that in all these years LOL ... that is crazy. Even the official guide for UT2K4 doesn't have it listed.

[voila]

Nice work!
Now take my ideas on it.
I'm seasoned grafic designer as well as ut2004 player.

I so expect pretty classic remakes with new-wave gameplay options and design. Though you try to keep any detailes as original (that wierd meshes of the base and nodes, blue crystals and old mushrooms). IMHO its wrong way.

Its much better if you will keep proven link setup and work with good looking texture tiling (esp. around the base), lights and perhaps try to get balance with new vehicles. Also please think about THE ORB :) - it makes more fun in the game, besides anybody can turn it off with NoOrb mutator.

At first and for less complex developing I advice you to use default static meshes that suplied, so it fits to visual composition of the game much better on this moment.

Its no needs to repeat UT2004 in UT3, just make a good remix or tribute as a musician.)

Don't interupt for a unsignificant things!
GL&HF!

[DeadSoul]

Well I just spent some considerable time with them both back to back and here are my suggestions for a true classic remake (although I really think you should have the option for people to play this like Warfare ... this is UT3 and there is a No orb mutator so imo it would be nice to open up this great level for everyone UT2K4 gamers and those new to UT altogether who like the play of UT3):

there actually is a no-orb setting in the INI. It just does not appear to work at this time. if we can figure out how to get orb and no-orb options working in the same map we will have an orb version.


- First off there was no real uniformity about the platforms in the original Dawn. Some you could just walk over some you had to either jump or use the little mini ramps that are on each platform (power node or vehicle and remember some of the platforms are more sunk into the ground than others on the original). So really if you want to be more true to the original then you need to mix it up some and also add those little mini ramps so people can just run straight up them .. and make sure you haven't missed any platforms ... I believe one or two vehicles were not on platforms.

The 2k4 dawn used giant gears for vehicle platforms vs the rounded disks we use. The gears have tappered edges and that helped ease the character over the larger transitions on most platforms (some, like base manta where still a jump). Additionally, in 2k4 dodge jump was the fastest way to move on foot and so you ended up dodge jumping just about everywhere and consiquently rarely noticed the transition issues. We are taking a serious look at the platform height issue and the terrain roughness issue (they are closely tied) and will resolve this so walk onto the platforms.


- The Inner bases do need more detailed work and most importantly you should consider losing the terrain you have for the ground in the interior of the bases as they are only concrete and dirt (in the original) and not green/grassy at all. Also the entrances/exits to the bases need a greater amount of detail ... the original had a good deal of detail on them. And when you get out of the bases instead of just two lights at the mouth of the open middle area there should be structures that the lights are attached to ... again check out the original.

True the beta two structures (bases and wall things at the entrances of the bowl near the bases, are already a lot different and more details then what you see in beta 1. I have been working on them for quite a number of hours the last two days.


- I feel the size is pretty much dead on ... I walked around and the times were almost exact for reaching the bases just by walking. Good job on the scaling on size ... I don't feel these things need much if any work at all.

We did a lot of the same things for comparing the sizes of the two version of the maps. We are still tweaking it to get that right balance of faithful replication vs. UT3 feel. It is not perfect yet, but it is improving.


BTW I get really good fps (running everything at max with 4xAA) on this map so good job on the optimization so far. That is extremely important to me because I should never have to turn down anything but maybe the AA on any UT3 level (so far all the retail levels have run welll ... unless we are talking about the ones with the bug in them that causes freezing for many of us ... mainly Torlan and Gateway).

Thanks. this was another goal of the project. We have done a lot of work to optimized the map. I have and outdated gaming machine so it is easy for us to performance test it to death and find all the issues that come up with settings turned down (the trees do strange things, some vanish entirely and just leave a blocking volume). Where most UT3 maps are a slide show me (average 20-30 fps with video turned way down) on dawn i get about 45fps.

[paaawau]

Yes yes yes, great ONS map, keep them comming! Stock UT3 warfare maps are small, tight, stuffy, so every "UT2004-style" map brings joy to my heart :)

[AnubanUT2]

Yes yes yes, great ONS map, keep them comming! Stock UT3 warfare maps are small, tight, stuffy, so every "UT2004-style" map brings joy to my heart :)

QFT. And btw I am no longer having any freezing issues with my 8800GT on Vista when playing on Torlan and Dm-Gateway levels. go here for the answer to all your prayers if you have a system that matches my config somewhat. Vista and the 8800GT:

http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=595035

[AnubanUT2]

Wow Dead that all sounds really great, thanks for the info ... I really am glad you are taking this project so seriously ... it lets me know that this level will be AAA quality. Cool. :)

[IzaFly]

BTW, for those wondeing about the lack of sky....

There IS a sky. You simply can't see it. :p

Tell me....how much sky do you see in this foggy morning? :)
http://www.tameraalexander.com/Photo/colorado/Winter%20Foggy%20Morning%20rs.jpg

[MeepZero]

I see sky! Its just hiding behind all that fog...just turn your settings down and it fixes good n proper :D

[AnubanUT2]

Yes but ONS-Dawn was not all that foggy and it had a sky you could see ... moving clouds and all. And a really nice sun (since it is dawn I take it) so I would think that you would stick with that and use HDR (or is that effect automatically used) for when people look at the sun in this version.

[IzaFly]

But 2k4 Dawn didn't have realistic fog. ;)

Remember that one important fact. Fog now acts REAL.

[AnubanUT2]

But 2k4 Dawn didn't have realistic fog. ;)

Remember that one important fact. Fog now acts REAL.

Excellent point .. but still do you think people will enjoy playing in the fog with no "dawn" as it were that breaks through the clouds? Okay I said I will trust you with this so I'll just have to see how it works when things are pretty much down to the last couple of Betas (when you get a RC1 ) ... have you played with how it will look though ... you know one version with the sun and another with the heavy realistic fog and play test it to see which actually works best in game?

[IzaFly]

I spent days tweaking the fog.

Here are my thoughts:
2k4 fog did not allow you to see directly across the map. This can be a good thing as being able to see across it would change the map play and strategies. The Raptor has a maximum height ceiling set. Thing about the fog is that if you go TOO high above the fog, you see the edges of the fog at the distance.

I tweaked the fog so that you barely see the edge of the fog when reaching the maximum height in the Raptor. This prevents it from looking ugly and more realistic. Now, the higher you fly in the Raptor, the more sky you see. This is normal because the fog is clearing up. Currently, the sky is half black because it is dawn and it is still night on part of the sky. But if you take the Raptor, and fly straight up, you will see the detail the sky has.

This is the EXACT same effect currently on the sky dome. Except we have fog to deal with and so you really don't see it on foot.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/54738529_2f0ce389f5.jpg

BTW, I have fixed the platform problem. :) Being that some have shown a slight deficiency in pushing the jump button :p I have come up with a solution.

I did not want to lose the look of the platforms by sinking them into the ground. So I created a hexagonal blocking volume with a flat top and placed it underneath one of the platforms as a test. The end result is, IMHO, rather respectable. :)

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn46.jpg

[MadCat221]

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but it'd be easier to DL if you just do an orb version. The game ships with a WAR-only mutator that removes the orb fabricators, so making a non-orb version becomes wholly redundant.

[IzaFly]

In the next beta or 2, I'll be adding the config for the orbs to be selected on or off. That way, people can enjoy the map with or without them.

Orb stations will more than likely only be at base. Thus requiring a team effort to get an orb carrier across the map. Good luck making it across the entire map alone with the "Hey I'm over here. Kill me now." sign on your head. :D

[Catalase]

Well could you post a picture of what the full sky looks like when you're in the raptor? Despite the fact that it's more realistic now, the 2K4 sky still looks better, which shouldn't be happening.

[IzaFly]

Sure. Like I've said all along. Fog in UT3 acts like REAL fog. Here, you can see how it has cleared up a decent amount with the increased elevation in the Raptor. Same goes when you are jumping around in the Manta, or as you change elevation when going up or down the hills. The higher you make it up, the clearer the fog becomes. The sky was nice and clear in 2k4 because the fog was not really acting like real fog.

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn47.jpg

[Rujman]

Delicious.

[AnubanUT2]

Please try and get us a new beta today ... this level is looking so good and your decision looks like it is going to payoff bigtime. I'll be keeping my eyes open and looking for that later this evening. ;)

[Xyx]

Just tried some Instant Action. It's great to see Dawn again, but something's not quite right. I love what you're doing, but I doubt that anyone else is going to bother with a Dawn remake after you release this, so it'd be great if this one was... well, perfect in every way. What follows may seem a bit harsh, so let me once again emphasize that I think you're doing a fantastic job and I'm just trying to provide constructive feedback.

You say you want a faithful remake. The old Dawn had fog, so the new Dawn has fog even though it makes the sky look like crap. The old Dawn had vehicle pads you couldn't always walk onto, so the new Dawn has pads that are at least as tricky to walk onto. The old Goliath took 13.89751 seconds to get from base to tank node, so the map is scaled way beyond its original proportions to ensure the faster new Goliath also takes precisely 13.89751 seconds.

I think all of that is going way too far, but hey, it's your map and I can understand all of it in the light of a faithful remake.

But then there are things like the Berserk pickup (I know, no Painter, but Berserk != super weapon), the deadly pool of goo surrounding the Redeemer, the missing Keg, completely new buildings around the shield belt with a weird jump required to get the belt...

And last but not least there's the size. Might be my personal preference for smaller, busier environments, but this feels way too big. Most of the time I feel I'm shooting at tiny blue blobs of pixels instead of people. Forget walking anywhere; it's just too far. Rather teleport around to find a Manta/Raptor. Even wait for a vehicle to respawn, still beats walking. The hoverboard is supposed to aid the delivery of zero-time-to-spectacle, but in this upscaled environment the long boring walks are simply replaced with long boring hoverboard rides. The Hellbenders are almost useless; takes too long to get anywhere. The old Dawn sure wasn't like that.

Then there's a few oddities that I'm not sure are related to the original Dawn:

Not being able to jump to the Raptor in the base.
Being able to shoot down the tank node from the base entrance. It's almost impossible to keep that node alive for more than half a minute.
Rocks and mushrooms down the center hard to jump over with the Manta in some places.
Structures surrounding the nodes seemed to protect the nodes just a little better in the old Dawn.
Many playerstarts face strange directions. I often spawn without either the node, a weapon locker or a vehicle in sight... until I turn around. Sometimes I even spawn just facing a rock wall.Recommendations:

Either go for a faithful to-the-letter remake or try to capture the spirit of the old Dawn in full UT3 style like Torlan did. You seem to be wanting both but not getting much of either right now.
Stick to the old dimensions. That means some travel will be slightly faster (walking, Goliaths), but at least it won't be battle of the Red and Blue pixels anymore. It'll also give the Hellbenders a purpose and help de-uberize the Mantas.
Get the ECE stuff in. That, too, was "old Dawn". You could make a separate link setup for ECE and non-ECE (and hopefully Axon versus Necris too).
Get some decent looking rocks on those hilltops. The new Torlan doesn't use terrain for mountains anymore either, and it looks much more real because of it.
Those blue crystals really stand out. Very annoying for the Red team. I often mistake them for enemies, and I bet the Blue team could easily exploit them for camouflage. Either give them a color not so close to the Blue brightskin (like, more greenish) or place red crystals along the other side of the map to even things out.
Lower the vehicle pads. Not being able to walk onto them in the old Dawn was an annoyance already. I don't see how matches would be less nostalgic or enjoyable in any way whatsoever if people could just walk onto the pads.
Lower the fog so it only shows up in the lower valleys. Use some depth of field/distance blur to smooth the more distant parts of the map.

[IzaFly]

Hi Xyx. Thanks for the detailed feedback :)

The MAIN reason why I am trying to make it exactly as 2k4 is because my clan's community needs good match maps. These guys are extremely anal when it comes to map dynamics. The best match maps were balanced as close as possible for both sides. Dawn may not be exactly the same on both sides of the map, but both sides have their advantages and disadvantages which balances out in the end. Dawn was a popular map and I need it to be as close to the original as possible in every sense.

Map Size:
We have had a lot of talk about this, and are still unsure what to do with the map. All the vehicles behave differently from 2k4. We are currently torn between the map feeling too big for the slower vehicles and keeping it the same size from 2k4.

The feeling "big" factor.
We have already tested this map with about 6 or 8 people who knew what they were doing. The more people that play, the less "big" the map feels. While making your way across the map with the hoverboard, you might end up preventing someone going over to one of your nodes. Or you could try sniping people from far. The Bender was rarely used as a "I need to get to the other side of the map" vehicle. It was mostly used as a defensive weapon. Keeping guys on foot away from a node, sniping incoming enemy Mantas and Raptors, etc.

Oh and guess what. This map is actually BIG enough to take advantage of the Bender's new rear turret...assuming one knows how to take advantage of it. Avril camping has its advantages, but the avril still requires x amount of time to reach its target. The Bender's rear turret is instantaneous. The Bender's role in this map is more of long distance sniping and defense than anything else. Not saying you shouldn't use it for traveling far distances, but people should learn how to use the environment and vehicles to specific advantages. I'm not going to edit the map just because people think the Bender takes too long to get from point A to point B. If this were the case, then every Warfare map should be the size of a DM map.

Long boring walks will be a thing of the past with 12+ people in this map. And does not turn into a "Everyone must be in this location" map. There will always be something happening SOMEWHERE. You have 2 primes to worry about. You may have a team building a centre node which will allow you to takeover the other centre node in order to get your other prime back if it is currently held by the enemy, etc. You have the sniper rifle at the tank node. What are your 4 options? Stay and defend the tank node, take the tank, take the Raptor, or take the sniper rifle, get to the hill above the tank node, and see if there is anyone you can kill at the centre node with it. Trust me. This map will not be boring with the required amount of people in it.

Your bulleted issues:
Platforms: This has been addressed and will be implemented. Being that some have shown a slight deficiency in pushing the jump button, I have come up with a solution. I did not want to lose the look of the platforms by sinking them into the ground. So I created a hexagonal blocking volume with a flat top and placed it underneath one of the platforms as a test. The end result is, IMHO, rather respectable.
http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn46.jpg

Tank node: Same as 2k4. If you can't keep the tank node alive, then have the team work their way around the centre area and bring down the other prime while a small team keeps prevention on the tank node. This comes down to tactics.

Rocks & Mushrooms: Does everything need to be able to have the Manta jump on top? :p Little by little, I'll try to balance the rocks.

Node Structures: I actually haven't heard much feedback on this. Will try to get more info. The new nodes are slightly higher than the old ones. But I can always rotate these structures so the nodes are not so easy to hit from certain common incoming angles.

Playerstarts: After you made this comment, I looked at the player starts. I never realized they had a little directional arrow to them. :p I will make sure they will all eventually face outwards away from a wall. Thx. :)

Your recommendations:
Remake: Yeah. This has been difficult :( But I referenced this with the above statements on the new vehicle dynamics. I guess we will see how it goes

Dimensions: Same as above. I'm not catering a map so people can use the Bender as a bus. All vehicles have roles to play. People can learn to use the Bender in the most "efficient" manner, or they could use it to go across the map. It is their decision. But overall dimension concerns is something we are certainly looking into for other reasons other than the convenience of driving the Bender around.

ECE Stuff: My primary concern is getting basic Dawn finished. I will play with other configurations later on if time permits. Anyone else is more than welcome to create different variants of Dawn with more and crazy vehicles. My main concern is to first get the basic playable and match worthy copy of Dawn working.

Rocks: Ditto. I'll be adding much more detail as time goes by.

Crystals: Eh. Will probably take them out, but I like blue. :D

Platforms: As I mentioned above, I will be fixing this issue and it won't be by sinking them into the ground and destroying their look.

Fog: Fog plays an important strategic role in this map wise as it did in 2k4. I can't lower it. Doing so would disrupt much of the original game play. Again, people are welcome to create their own version of the map with crazy vehicles, more powerups, no fog, etc. My goal here is to make a "match" worthy map in which 2k4 Dawn was perfect in doing.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback, and keep them coming as I'm sure more will come up as we release the other Betas. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Actually I like the blue crystals and they are part of ONS-Dawn so my vote would be to keep them in. I also really like blue and without a clearly visible blue sky at the bottom level if you take them out ... where there goes some cool blue. :)

[Xyx]

By the way... forgot to mention it but I think there's a stray blocking volume over some tree near one of the primes. I kept banging into it with a Raptor.

[AnubanUT2]

Any chance we'll get a new beta today/tonight? I hope so ... getting really ansy but of course I want you to get it right but you know what I mean. :)

[IzaFly]

Hehe....
4 things I want to make sure are fixed by Beta2:

1) Map size (already reduced a bit)
2) Volumes around platforms
3) Player start positions.
4) Smoothing of terrain

[Dozinator]

Good looking map and I have it on a server. plays very nice.
Thank you for the hard work.;)


www.zerofrag.com UT3 Warfare Community
Warfare Maps, Warfare Pugs.
Unreal at its Best.;)

[AnubanUT2]

Hehe....
4 things I want to make sure are fixed by Beta2:

1) Map size (already reduced a bit)
2) Volumes around platforms
3) Player start positions.
4) Smoothing of terrain

So where are you with this tonight? Any chance of a second beta or are these issues becoming bigger problems than you had anticipated?

[IzaFly]

Map size has been reduced.

Now I'm in the process of having to reposition EVERYTHING on the map. :rolleyes:

I've also been experimenting with better terrain textures. I haven't been too happy with what I currently have since day one. The cliff material doesn't really tile right and is too tiled in certain areas. I haen't been too found of the sand material currently on the ground. But I have something a bit more interesting that I will be using. :D

[Tahngarthor]

The Orb is currently not in Beta01. I will be looking into creating a dual setup config for the map. One with and the other without Orbs. I personally feel it will be interesting to see how UT3 plays out without it. :)

Disclaimer: I didnt read the whole thread

There is a "No Orbs" mutator for warfare. Thus, you can just put the orb in and not need a second setup that removes them.

[AnubanUT2]

Map size has been reduced.

Now I'm in the process of having to reposition EVERYTHING on the map. :rolleyes:

I've also been experimenting with better terrain textures. I haven't been too happy with what I currently have since day one. The cliff material doesn't really tile right and is too tiled in certain areas. I haen't been too found of the sand material currently on the ground. But I have something a bit more interesting that I will be using. :D

Sounds excellent as usual but man I am getting so ansy for this baby ... oh well hopefully tonight no matter how much later it is there will be a new beta to play with ... maybe? :)

[IzaFly]

Well, just thought I'd show you a preview of what I have been doing with the new terrain textures. I have literally spend almost 2 days in looking for the right ground and cliff textures, and I think I finally hit the spot.

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn54.jpg

[Xyx]

That grit looks nice and next-gen (is it bumpmapped?) but not Dawn-ish. Dawn had light brown rock and dirt. It also doesn't look like the same stuff those rocky slopes are made of... more like somebody dumped a ton of imported gravel in the valley.


There is a "No Orbs" mutator for warfare.
That removes orbs from all maps in the maplist.

[IzaFly]

Yes it is bumped. And Speculared. And a few other little things to try to enhance it a bit. Alright...working on another one. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Yes it is bumped. And Speculared. And a few other little things to try to enhance it a bit. Alright...working on another one. :)

So what's up with that second Beta man? ;)

[IzaFly]

Hehe....it's...coming along. :D

[Sanch3z]

wow, AnubanUT2, how do you find time to play the game cause it looks like your in every thread on the forums here :)

[AnubanUT2]

lol In between posts ... like how I just played some DM. I am a UT junkie ... hardcore man ... can't get enough. I'll probably die at my keyboard with UT3 running ... an overdose man ... still I have to get my daily fix of 14-16 hours of UT3 related activities. :D

[ur-name-here]

AnubanUT2:

I want u to send a photo of your face, to a good character mod maker.
We in the community feel with your zeal, and the fact that you are the #1 fan of UT; we deserve to be able to have fun with u as the target. lol

[IzaFly]

Sorry guys. Been a bit busy. I haven't forgotten about Dawn.

Currently the map has grown to 110mb. So I'm...umm...trying to fix that. :D You are lucky it fell down to 110mb from the 150mb it was LOL.

[Molgan]

Nice IzaFly, this map will without any doubt be played a lot on our server. Dawn was the #1 ONS map in 2k4 imo, glad to see you are taking the task to bring it into UT3 seriously. =)

2 comments, first about the scale: I know it has been said before, but it needs to be shrinked. I know it's a lot of work but the movement speed in UT3 makes it feel really huge and slow.

Avrils: You say you want to keep it true to the original, but avrils are much more important now. In 2k4 I didn't go anywere without a shock rifle, in UT3 I don't want to be caught without an Avril. There should be an Avril close to all main spawn points in the map, in the middle there could be a pickup in between the 2 center nodes for example.

Keep up the good work and take your time. ;]

[IzaFly]

Yep! Map has been resized! I'm currently moving all the stuff around.

It's true to the original...and yes...there is an avril in the same location in the centre as there was in the original. :) All the weapons lockers are EXACTLY the same as they were in 2k4.

[runner26_2]

If you're able to cook it for the PS3 that would be great. We can let you know how it performs on that system.

[Xyx]

You could also place AVRiL pickups where the old Grenade Launchers used to be.

[Molgan]

Yep! Map has been resized! I'm currently moving all the stuff around.

It's true to the original...and yes...there is an avril in the same location in the centre as there was in the original. :) All the weapons lockers are EXACTLY the same as they were in 2k4.
Lol. I've spent hundreds of hours on that map in 2k4, but still that detail slipped my mind. Shows how useless the avril was compared to the shock in 2k4. =)

[IzaFly]

You could also place AVRiL pickups where the old Grenade Launchers used to be.

I have the shape charge there. :D

[Xyx]

Wouldn't the Shaped Charge serve better as a Target Painter replacement?

Double primes, two shaped charges and a 'deemer on the map... Cores could be dead in seconds.

[IzaFly]

Nothing is an adequate replacement. We just have to do with what we got. :)

Besides, it's no different than a guy getting the deemer and another getting the painter in 2k4. Actually, in 2k4 it was worse. The same guy can hold the deemer AND the painter at the same time while still defend himself with another weapon if he has to. If he grabs the shape charge, which I have only one of, he be screwed.

Yeah..I'd like to see someone try to grab the shape charge, then grab the deemer, then Berserk, and still make it back to the enemy core alive with the enemy core STILL available. :p

Dawn's double primes can easily be held down by core tank parked in a strategic position and 1-2 guys protecting said tank with avrils while the rest of the team does their work. Anyone who has played Dawn a zillion times knows this. Strategy. That's what makes it fun as opposed to sticking double or triple the amount of vehicles in the map. :D

[Mr.UglyPants]

When is beta2 going to be up?

[IzaFly]

Soon. :D :D

I'll be putting in some deep hours into it this weekend.

[IzaFly]

Preview of the new high res 2048x2048 rock and dirt textures. :) The old textures were really irritating me with their tiling, so I decided to make a few custom ones. :D


http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn58.jpg

Keep in mind this is taking me a while because some of you don't know how to use your jump buttons. So I have to be a good little map maker and make little invisible walking ramps for every vehicle and node platform in the map. :p

[IzaFly]

Yeah, I'd say the new hi-res textures are working out pretty well. :D

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn59.jpg

[DSKEmilio]

Ooooh, nice map. Still being worked on, I see...

Alright, it's shaping up to be a really nice looking map. I guess I could hold out a little bit longer until it's final release, then I would ask for a PS3 cook. I think this will be a very fun warfare map. Good luck on it!

[Mr.UglyPants]

So how goes it with the map? Any additions to the bases (front and inside)?

[IzaFly]

DeadSoul is currently working on the bases. I really have no clue what he is doing, but he knows all the enhancements he has to make.

I'm still doing lots of tweaking to the map. But everything is coming along. :)

[IzaFly]

Getting ready to roll out Beta2. :D I added Beta2 notes to the front page.

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn62.jpg

[AnubanUT2]

Cool man, after all this time I am certain this is going to be one really solid remake. Considering that this is just Beta 2 at that ... I really appreciate how you are not rushing this but taking your time to make certain you get everything right. Good job ... hopefully that Beta comes within the next 12 hours. :D

[IzaFly]

Beta 2 is now available. :D

[AnubanUT2]

Thank you ... ahhh I see I am the first to get this ... I told man this was my fav ONS map besides Torlan and the one I learned to play ONS on. Thanks for the hard work! :D

Edit: Just played a couple of rounds and had fun ... still didn't see that superheath pickup and the shield belts that should be at each of the bases. It looks like the distance to each base from the middle section is now closer to being equal ... still seems like the length to the blue side is still a little greater but not so much so it makes a big difference (plus I could be wrong ..). The morning fog look came out extremely well. Dude this is about to be my favorite Warfare map ... just fix the small things and get those bases looking more like the original ... the terrain is not correct and the bases just look empty. Also the camera angles for when the core explodes are kind of wacky so if you don't mind please check that out as well. Hey I don't like losing health just to get the redeemer ... that is not fun ... was it like that in ONS-Dawn .. please fix that if is different. I did blow up a tank using it and a node ... that was cool! :)

[AnubanUT2]

Bump for one of the best War maps available if not The best atm. Come on folks dl this level and add some comments so it will be even better come the final. :D

[IzaFly]

I guess I should have made a really spammy DM map since every now loves spam. :p

[AnubanUT2]

I guess I should have made a really spammy DM map since every now loves spam. :p

Nope man ... watch when you are done how many scream for a PS3 version ... and forget that nonsense because not only is this meant for the PC but they have not shown any interest and will not have given any input. You'll be surprised at how many folks will be all over this once it is a RC1. Keep it at man ... there are those of us who are really looking forward to a high quality level. :D

[IzaFly]

It will be an RC once I am done tinkering with the terrain, the speedtrees and have the final bases in place.

But at least the main game mechanics are in place and it is very possible to have an incredible battle in it.

We have been experiencing a problem, though. These maps are massive. Some of my community mates have even created smaller maps, but weigh in between 30-40mbs. Most people are finding this completely unacceptable, and have been avoiding one of our servers due to the long download times even with a 100+kb/s connection. A once busy server has now been void due to that, and we are probably going to remove the custom content.

Cooking is a process which already compresses maps. A more efficient compression method for redirect is highly doubtful. Unless Epic is able to magically find a way to compress maps down to 10-20mb as they were before, the custom map community will be rendered almost useless. Unless, of course, net pricing were to reduce, but we all know that is not something which can simply happen within a year.

UT3 maps are disgustingly large, and warfare maps are the worst offenders. I can tell you right now, things are looking VERY dim for the custom map community....unless you are the type of person that likes playing against bots. And we all know how exciting that can be. :rolleyes:

[AnubanUT2]

^^ Well I hate to disappoint point you but I am one of those folks who DO NOT play online. :p ... most people just don't know how to play fair and talk too much crap and plus with this version I am having a hard time becoming good. I am still capped at Skilled level if I want to actually win a bot match and even that is really really difficult (which is why I mostly play on experienced). Still I hear you and that is depressing ... anyway don't say to many bad things ... wouldn't want to see you get banned like BigDragon.

So you really think that the custom map scene will suffer? It does seem like there are plenty of mappers I have never heard of before popping out on the UT3 scene ... but on the flip side most of the mappers I knew from the UT2Kx days are mysteriously absent. Still I can't wait until this level is done.

You could always give VDMs and VcTFs a shot .... seems like those levels are pretty popular these days.

[IzaFly]

... anyway don't say to many bad things ...I hope they are not considered bad. Just simply trying to politely state the obvious and current experiences.


So you really think that the custom map scene will suffer?I am part of a community with several guys who have been long time 2k4 supporters who also have UT3 maps. I know these guys and always talk them on vent. They are about as optimistic as they come. We have had plenty of discussions regarding server side setups, downloading time, compressions, etc. We have noticed the simple fact, people will not come to the server due to long download times of custom maps.

It's really nothing we can do. 10+ people downloading the same 60mb map...and you know something will get congested. Plus, everyone has a different level of high speed internet. Some of us are blessed to have fast connections and some of us are cursed.

Like I mentioned, our biggest hope is redirect compression will compress even more than the compression cooking does, but that has been discussed within us as well. There is only so much you can compress something.

What are community will most likely end up doing is creating a custom map download pack for our servers. But even then, you know not everyone reads the server comments for our server's website. There is still hope, and we will continue to feel optimistic, but it is hard to do so when things point the opposite direction.

[AnubanUT2]

Dude I absolutely love this map in UT3 ... man this has got to be one of the most fun warfare maps around. Must be nothing but noobs playing the game these days for no one else to be interested in playing this. Warfare takes some skill sure but man is it fun ... this map is really faithful to the original. I already mentioned what would make it complete but yeah I just played a match and man it was so much fun. Thank again for remaking this classic ONS map. :)

[IzaFly]

Glad someone is able to enjoy it. :)

[AnubanUT2]

What is going on with this ... is this the version that has been taken over by the guys at ZF? Hope you are doing okay Iza and that you have not permanently left the community.

[IzaFly]

Sorry, Anuban. I have lost complete interest in UT3. Please don't ask the reasons....as they are the typical reasons you read from most of the hardcore 2k4 players. :p I tried...and tried...and tried hard to like UT3. I came to the conclusion that if I don't like the game out of the box, I probably shouldn't be playing it.

Yes, the guys at ZF are taking over the map. I've known some of these guys for years, and they are going to finish it with the same intentions as I had. The map, for the most part, is pretty much finished. They just have to tidy up the bases, and make minor adjustments here and there.

Last work I did on it was with some very good FPS enhancements tweaking the culling, lighting, etc. Map should be very enjoyable by most who enjoy UT3. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Well sorry to see you go man but thanks for giving the community such a fantastic and faithful remake. I really enjoy the level and can't wait to see the final product. Take it easy man and keep gaming no matter what game it is. :)

[Mahblack]

Any chance of this being cooked for PS3? We were denied chain isles and given no reason... Perhaps we could try this one?

[AnubanUT2]

Nope ... no version of this for the PS3 ... it was already attempted by me at the request of IF and it failed and IF has passed this onto the ZF crew and they are not making any changes to the textures which are 2048x2048 which is probably why it didn't work on the PS3 but who knows.


yes IzaFly = Flybye. Hi res textures are still in. We wont be reinventing his whole map, just putting the finishing touches on it.

[Tahngarthor]

Once it's more finished, i'd really appriciate an alternate link setup with orb spawners in the main bases. If there's no orb, we'd pretty much be better off playing the 2k4 version. But at any rate, I found out you can have different link setups, with the orb and without. So you can easily please both crowds here.

[AnubanUT2]

^^^ Well IzaFly is no longer working on this level ... you should direct your requests to these fine folks:

http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=603276

[Sanch3z]

you will be able to choose if you want the orb or not.....that is in ;)

[slimer]

How are you finding the use of speedtree on this map?

[Sanch3z]

actually how this map is released will be up to Flybye and the 2 guys I am working with to finish it. It may be public release.

what do you mean about using speedtree slimer? as in are there speed trees? I think there are. Flybye did 99% of the work, we are just touching some stuff up like bases need resizing, bot pathing, turrets at core could hit tank node, etc....

I used speedtrees on another map and I didnt really like them. I havent tried it but I heard that if you run low detail settings speedtrees look like crap...

[TheIronKnuckle]

Is this final? It says it's a beta version but i just want to know if it is being worked on any more.

[Sanch3z]

its on the side right now....

[brisingre]

Your screenshots are dead. Thought you should know. (sorry if someone already pointed this out.)

[IzaFly]

A shame UT3 died. I had fun making this map. I took the image links out since I cleared the server.

[brisingre]

UT3 isn't dead. It has a fairly small player base, but judging from the amount of good content being created, a dedicated and talented one. Part of the phenomenon that looks like being dead is that I think a lot of people don't play online. I don't, for the most part. UT3 is me and my friends' LAN shooter.

[very unreal]

i play offline too because of the custom contents for ut3

[mangmod]

Link doesn't work. Can you reupload? I Love this map!

[Sanch3z]

http://www.mediafire.com/?yziltylviej

[mangmod]

Thanks! Great work!

[Jonny]

Any chance you could put some screenshots up? I don't generally download unless i see some screenshots that show potential. Cheers

[pacerx]

Any chance you could put some screenshots up? I don't generally download unless i see some screenshots that show potential. Cheers

The GodsOfWarfare web site has a screen shot: http://ut3gow.com/WAR-DawnRevisited