WAR-SuspenseX

[Xyx]

Epic's vCTF-Suspense converted to Warfare, with Axon and Necris vehicles.

Comments:

I didn't like the way vCTF-Suspense played (in fact, I don't like the way vCTF plays without being able to transport the flag in a 'bender), but the map has some pretty cool terrain nonetheless.

Adjustments:
Replaced Blue's vehicles with Necris vehicles.
The main spawn buildings house the cores. Nodes are placed in the corner buildings, under the bridge by the Redeemer and on the bridge towers by the UDamages. The flags have been replaced with orb spawns.
Includes four different node link setups. The nodes on the towers are not used in the default setup.
Replaced Stinger pickups with Biorifles. Placed an AVRiL ammo pickup on the flag buildings.
Replaced the Manta under the bridge with a Cicada. For variety, and because I don't like a Manta overdose.I tried to keep the Warfare gameplay close to the vCTF gameplay, which is why I didn't make too many alterations. That is also the reason why I did not include the tower nodes in the default setup.

I applied a 0.9 scale to the nodes in the towers and the buildings to fit them in. While this 10% reduction isn't really noticeable, it goes to show that, theoretically, interesting things could be done with really big or really small nodes.

I am a n00b mapper and not aspiring to learn how to map properly, but if I can improve on the following stuff in a simple manner, then please tell me all about it:
Axon versus Necris. Balanced or not?
Any areas you still wouldn't go to? Any pickups I could place there to make it worth the detour?
Any way I can reduce the ridiculous file size?
Any way I can improve bot behavior?Screenshots:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2849/suspensexcoreredjl3.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2849/suspensexcoreredjl3.jpg) http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6587/suspensextunnelnodenortnh7.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6587/suspensextunnelnodenortnh7.jpg) http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3064/suspensexorbredoj6.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3064/suspensexorbredoj6.jpg)

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4715/suspensexcorebluewz3.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4715/suspensexcorebluewz3.jpg) http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/219/suspensextunnelnodesouthc5.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/219/suspensextunnelnodesouthc5.jpg) http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5928/suspensextowernodenorthgs8.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5928/suspensextowernodenorthgs8.jpg)

Version:
Beta 1

Compatibility:
Tested in Single Player. The bots are OK. They'll go everywhere and do everything. They may do some stupid stuff and/or abandon vehicles in strange places. No different from vCTF-Suspense, I guess.

Multiplayer is untested. Let me know.

Credits:
Epic for making the map.
Me for adapting the map. Which was like 0.02% of the overall effort.

Download:
SuspenseX.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?4wd14jzb9mn) (MediaFire)
(only 65 megs...)

Installation instructions provided in the Readme in the download. Basically, extract to My Documents\My Games\Unreal Tournament 3.

Feedback appreciated!

[NotAgOat]

I couldn't download your map in firefox, I had to dust of IE.
Your zip archive is corrupt.

[Taboen]

Put a invisibility pickup under water somewhere.
Axon versus Necris is imo not balanced. Not in vCTF atleast.
Cicada under the bridge sucks imo. Put a viper there!

[Dragondoom01]

Did you cook the map? 65 megs sounds too big considering all you did was add a few nodes. Shouldnt be that size. Please "cook" the map then re release, suspense would be great to play in warfare. I haven't messed with the editor myself, but i heard there is an optimization button that you press and the editor automatically cuts out unnecessary file size. This is called cooking.

[Xyx]

I couldn't download your map in firefox, I had to dust of IE.
I just downloaded it in Firefox. I always use Firefox and never had problems with MediaFire.


Your zip archive is corrupt.
The one I just downloaded works for me. Try again?


Put a invisibility pickup under water somewhere.
I'd have to place one on each side of the bridge if I were to keep things balanced. Any suggestions for a spot?


Axon versus Necris is imo not balanced. Not in vCTF atleast.
Spidermine Traps on the flag would've been a bit too much, yes, but this is Warfare. The SPMA isn't completely useless now.


Cicada under the bridge sucks imo. Put a viper there!
Why, because it's better? That wouldn't balance anything since it's a neutral node.

I chose a Cicada because it's a unique vehicle that isn't otherwise in the map and does not have a Necris equivalent, and out of protest against the Manta/Viper's uberness. I think one ultrafast hard to kill crazy 150 damage per second node killing vehicle per side is enough.


Did you cook the map?
Yes, and that is what brings file size up from 20 to 65 megs. Unfortunately, if I don't cook it, lighting is messed up.

[MasterB]

I got a message that the core was vulnerable at the start of the game (I assume before the nodes were attached).
It would also be nice to get the full explosion when the core is destroyed.
Overall, good effort.

[Dragondoom01]

If you cooked it and the filesize increased to 65 megs, then something has gone wrong. Theres no reason it should be 65 megs, considering all the meshes and textures already came in the game! Can you imagine what a map that was from scratch would be like??? I can't help you with this because I haven't started with the editor myself, but i suggest looking at some optimization tutorials or something... Anyways this is a really great idea, as suspense is already an awesome map. Good luck with fixing the problem!

[Mr.UglyPants]

Are their jumppads to get you to the two top tower nodes? If not, you really should consider it.

Also, maybe make it just Axon vs Axon for now.

And yeah, Cicada could work under the bridge, try a raptor and see how that works out.

[Taboen]

Uhmm invibility pickup under water at each side yes, the exact spot isn't that important. Just a spot that times to reach but not too long so that the pickup is worth it.
About Cicada under bridge, I don't like the idea because it can do huge amounts of damage in some situations and it does not fit the mapstyle much.

Axon vs Axon or Necris vs Necris seems better in vCTF than Axon vs Necris because of balance. Balance is such a delicate thing in CTF. And sure some may say Axon vs Necris can be balanced out. it will never ever be completely balanced since where there is a difference there is a advantage/disadvantage to it. It's like in CS where one team always wins if they are Terrorists (caus of the ak47 with the highest dps).
Though Necris vs Axon can be really much fun in maps caus they add variety, I think it's more of a Warfare thing where after 1 round you switch sides anyway.

[Taboen]

F*ck Im totally confused, this IS a Warfare map! Okey you make it Necris vs Axon lololol my bad!

[Xyx]

I got a message that the core was vulnerable at the start of the game
That's because they are. The corner nodes are pre-built to minimize the importance of the initial node building rush and plunge you right into the midgame action.


It would also be nice to get the full explosion when the core is destroyed.
Indeed... dunno why that is missing. Apparently, simply inserting a powercore in a map is not enough to get a real powercore.


If you cooked it and the filesize increased to 65 megs, then something has gone wrong. Theres no reason it should be 65 megs, considering all the meshes and textures already came in the game!
I know! Do let me know when you figure out how to fix this. Or when you find a tutorial that explains. ;)


About Cicada under bridge, I don't like the idea because it can do huge amounts of damage in some situations and it does not fit the mapstyle much.
It's easier to take stuff out with the Viper, if you ask me. Anyway, if I want to keep the Axon/Necris vehicles aesthetically balanced, I'd have to either add a Cicada (as is now), a Paladin (which would have to go through the water) or a mirrored pair of Manta and Viper (which would increase the tiny fast uber vehicle oppression).


Are their jumppads to get you to the two top tower nodes?
No, where would I put them? Those would have to be some serious jumppads. You can use the node teleporter portals to get topside once the nodes have been captured. To get there you need to either grab the Raptor or walk/board/drive the Manta/Viper up the big cables.


make it just Axon vs Axon for now.
Nah, waste of good Necris vehicles, that is.

[Ignotium]

Hi Xyx, very nice one here mate, i really enjoyed this one.
Mi first complaint is the core's brightness! damn! those are some serious bright cores! can't you lower that just a tad or something? they are just so damn bright!

Another thing that in my opinion is quite important, is the tactical meaning(or importance) of the nodes that sit in the main towers. In the Conquest setup, they are just useless (AFAIK) the corner nodes are the only nodes that really count, and maybe the center one.
When playing "Topside", you are forced to control those nodes in order to get to da enemy core, wich is good BUT, then again they only matter because you are forced to control them. Maybe adding as i said before some tactical value to them would be a nice thing, and the more i think about it, the more i like the idea of just gaining control of rail towers that would move across the UDamage ledge raining death from above, that you'd make the control of those suckers a capital thing. Hey.. at least that's how i think.

Oh, and btw, i disagree on having the "prime nodes" prebuilt in every mode, but that's just me

[Xyx]

those are some serious bright cores! can't you lower that just a tad or something?
That's Epic's standard brightness... but I could check in on it.


the tactical meaning(or importance) of the nodes that sit in the main towers. In the Conquest setup, they are just useless
That's why they're optional. I wouldn't go for them either, but maybe some people like grabbing the amp and boarding down the cables. They give you a forward spawn point, though.


Maybe adding as i said before some tactical value to them would be a nice thing, and the more i think about it, the more i like the idea of just gaining control of rail towers that would move across the UDamage ledge raining death from above, that you'd make the control of those suckers a capital thing.
They'd be a bit harder to re-take, too. Plus I'd like to place rail turrets, but they seem to require some sort of Kismet voodoo that I know nothing of.


i disagree on having the "prime nodes" prebuilt in every mode
Why not? Onslaught used to be decided by one team rushing 0.3 seconds faster than the other. Pre-building those nodes takes most of the rushing out of the equation.

Plus this is still Suspense, and I wanted to keep the original vCTF spawn points available at the start.

[Coreper]

why not make a Necris/Axon vehicle mix, so both teams have same vehicles, but Necris and Axon vehicles
here is my idea:
-add the Fury instead of the default Raptor
-keep the Goliath
-keep the manta's
-replace the Scorpion with the Viper
-keep the Hellblender [good for tactical use{especially with the Berserk powerup}]
-replace the Hellfire with the Darkwalker
[-add some sniper ammo on the towers ;)]

*subscribing to this topic...*

[Xyx]

why not make a Necris/Axon vehicle mix, so both teams have same vehicles, but Necris and Axon vehicles
That would get rid of the Axon versus Necris theme, which I like.

I did make sure that nodes always spawn the same vehicles, regardless of what team controls the node. Epic put some stuff in place that lets mappers spawn only Axon for one team and only Necris for the other, but I think that's a bit dull. If you capture a Necris node you should get the Necris tech.

The next map (WAR-KargoX (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=591418)) has an (albeit very modest) mixture of Axon and Necris tech for each team, for practical reasons more than anything.


add some sniper ammo on the towers
Could do. Perhaps even AVRiL ammo.

[Mr.UglyPants]

I can live it being Necris/Axon for each sides, since MonsO will have a mut out in a few weeks (i pray) that allows for changing whole team sides.

Still, i'm really liking these vCTF turned Warfare maps, really giving them new life.

[Mr.UglyPants]

No, where would I put them? Those would have to be some serious jumppads. You can use the node teleporter portals to get topside once the nodes have been captured. To get there you need to either grab the Raptor or walk/board/drive the Manta/Viper up the big cables.

You think you'll be able to get the bots to do that more often?

Other than that, cool map.


I tried to keep the Warfare gameplay close to the vCTF gameplay, which is why I didn't make too many alterations. That is also the reason why I did not include the tower nodes in the default setup.

If its a Warfare map, you should try to make it play like a warfare map, not make ist gameplay close to the vCTF gameplay, its Warfare for a reason.

[Xyx]

You think you'll be able to get the bots to do that more often?
I see them do it all the time. But no, I don't think I can do a whole lot of bot herding. I could try to increase the "importance" of the topside nodes... but I have no idea whether that would help.


you should try to make it play like a warfare map, not make ist gameplay close to the vCTF gameplay
What would you suggest?

It was made to be a vCTF map, so even with cores and nodes added it still is a vCTF map at heart. That shows in the fact that it has long lines of sight between the bases. All vCTF maps have that, and it's a problem in Warfare where the nodes need to be protected from long range attack. On top of Epic's general vCTF design limitations, each map has a certain amount of personality to it. Suspense is characterized by the bridge acting as a channel.

I can either go with the flow and try to bring out the best in each map's specific gameplay style, or I can try to reduce them all to the same generic gameplay. I prefer to enhance their individualism.

If you happen to have any concrete examples of how to make these maps more like Warfare, then please elaborate. Perhaps your ideas fit with mine.

[Mr.UglyPants]

Hmm. Good points, So, we have the bases with the core, the building where you spawn in vCTF with the Goliath and Raptor being the Prime nodes, and the tower nodes in 1 or 2 setups right?

If we want to keep the fighting off the bridge but still have a core in center, get rid of the Cicada, put down a core that attaches to the Prime Nodes (not Tower nodes, cept for in link setup where they are in it) and add some stuff around the node (Maybe rox, Link and Shock) with a AVRiL pickup, could work fairly well. And give that node a Manta again, the Cicada (tried) just destroys nodes.