How to start a Total Conversion?

[LennardF1989]

Hi all,

I am Lennard Fonteijn and I am a coder for the TC called Project Stealth (see link in my signature).

Before UT3, we used RoboBlitz to code for the TC, but now that UT3 is there, the real work is going to begin.

Unfortunately, there is a big difference between making a TC for RoboBlitz and for UT3. So I was wondering if someone could give me a small and brief explanation on how to start a TC with UT3.

Our TC only uses UT3 as an engine (networking, physics, etc.) and we are planning NOT to use any UT specific code (the same like most TC's for UT2004).

I would like some kind of tutorial on how to run (& create?) the first basic files/map structure, a bit like the most TC tutorials for UT2004 (where you create a directory called MyMod, and a file called ut2k4mod.ini etc.)

Thanks in advance,
Lennard Fonteijn

[LennardF1989]

No one?

I mean something like this, only for UT3:
http://geeks.beyondunreal.com/ut2004/docs-modsystem.php

[Tanus]

I'd be interested in knowing too.

[Nic2]

dito

Im totaly new to they ways of converting UT..
Where do I find the code?
Are there some texteditor with built in compiler?
etc. :P

[LennardF1989]

dito

Im totaly new to they ways of converting UT..
Where do I find the code?
Are there some texteditor with built in compiler?
etc. :P

Sorry to say, but that's more a noob question, not what we want. We just want to know what the map structure etc. for a TC is. You wan't to know how to start modding.

I suggest you start browsing the UDN for that.

Tip: Export all scripts using the editor, and then open them with Notepad ;) But that isn't what we want to know, so I would prefer you create an own topic for that, so that we can get the answer we want in here, instead of yours (which I just gave). sorry if it sounds a bit harsh.

[Gugi]

mh, try a look at Slaughterhouse (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=585919). Perhaps you can export the scripts.
Don't know anything else atm :(

[BattleMode]

mh, try a look at Slaughterhouse (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=585919). Perhaps you can export the scripts.
Don't know anything else atm :( I tried that but unfortunately you end up with something that cannot be compiled. Perhaps you can ask the author for the source code.

[LennardF1989]

I tried that but unfortunately you end up with something that cannot be compiled. Perhaps you can ask the author for the source code.

Don't even waist your time on it, it's not a TC, so it isn't what I (and perhaps the other one) want.

Btw. You can just open the U file in Notepad to see the code. But it's never complete, it's just to give you an impression. Don't use export script to steal other peoples code, it's baaaaaad.

[schenksmill]

waiting for answers on structure too...

+1 for this

[LennardF1989]

I sended a PM to Mysterial and he/she told me he/she would make a sticky of it as soon as there as time for it. Let's just hope there will be some spare time for it in the very neard future :P

Sorry for the he/she-ing, It's just weard calling someone a he, when it's actually a she ;)

[schenksmill]

good news then....hoping the mod structure is still setup like 2k4

[Pfhoenix]

Exporting script is not stealing code. Copying segments of someone else's code without crediting them in your source is stealing. All UScript packages that you put out "into the wild" should be expected to be exported, which means you should properly comment your code as well. Write all your code as if someone else needs to be able to understand it.

[LennardF1989]

Exporting script is not stealing code. Copying segments of someone else's code without crediting them in your source is stealing. All UScript packages that you put out "into the wild" should be expected to be exported, which means you should properly comment your code as well. Write all your code as if someone else needs to be able to understand it.


Or just strip the source out, which is possible if you look in specific files ;)

*Ahum* Editor.int *Ahum*
*Ahum2* HelpUsage="gamename.exe stripsource <packagename>.u" *Ahum2*

[KewlAzMe]

Btw. You can just open the U file in Notepad to see the code. But it's never complete, it's just to give you an impression. Don't use export script to steal other peoples code, it's baaaaaad.

Good tip on the notepad thing.. but i don't think exporting other people's code is inherently bad.. would be best to get the permission from the author and give him credit in your mod if the code helped.. but I think many mods and mutators exist as a reference for others to learn from.. This is what makes UT so great...

I think it's bad that they included a code stripper option in the ut3 make process.... but some mutators like UAdmin for UT2004 feel the need to be selfish. Then what's worse is they stop support for it so we get a buggy POS that can't be fixed or improved.

I can see if it was a problems of people stealing code and calling it their own mutator.. but its not like any of us are making money on these things.. its about the gameplay.. and I don't know that its ever been a problem in the past.

[Dark[NSF]]

Good tip on the notepad thing.. but i don't think exporting other people's code is inherently bad.. would be best to get the permission from the author and give him credit in your mod if the code helped.. but I think many mods and mutators exist as a reference for others to learn from.. This is what makes UT so great...

I think it's bad that they included a code stripper option in the ut3 make process.... but some mutators like UAdmin for UT2004 feel the need to be selfish. Then what's worse is they stop support for it so we get a buggy POS that can't be fixed or improved.

I can see if it was a problems of people stealing code and calling it their own mutator.. but its not like any of us are making money on these things.. its about the gameplay.. and I don't know that its ever been a problem in the past.

+1

Decompiling source is how I learned uscript back in 2002 on Deus Ex. I could see this being more common with TC's, but mutators??

Weaksauce :(

[LennardF1989]

;25125737']+1

Decompiling source is how I learned uscript back in 2002 on Deus Ex. I could see this being more common with TC's, but mutators??

Weaksauce :(

Well, not to be selfish in a any way, but Project Stealth's source will be stripped out.

A lot of code is already done, but we have to write an entire system to get UT3 to do what we want (eg. Ledge hanging, special visions, etc.). all those things are very time consuming and I would't like it if someone did a simple Copy/Paste. I suppose more people feel like this, a mutator isn't soo bad, but a full TC is an other story.

[Dark[NSF]]

Well, not to be selfish in a any way, but Project Stealth's source will be stripped out.

A lot of code is already done, but we have to write an entire system to get UT3 to do what we want (eg. Ledge hanging, special visions, etc.). all those things are very time consuming and I would't like it if someone did a simple Copy/Paste. I suppose more people feel like this, a mutator isn't soo bad, but a full TC is an other story.

So will Reign Of Militias, but I am releasing a set of uscript guides along side our first release (just stuff that helped me out all put one in place). My comment is more towards mutators than anything.

Most TC's are run of the mill anyway, team a vs team b, with scout, assault, or heavy player classes. Things my grandmother could write up. haha.

[KewlAzMe]

I guess it's a Microsoft vs Linux world.

[Pfhoenix]

It really isn't MS versus Linux at all. It would be erroneous to construe from my post that I think everything should be open source.

While code written by one person is intellectually owned by the person that wrote it, the concepts employed are not owned (nobody owns an idea). By that token, Epic created a script system that encourages source sharing - that doesn't make it ok to copy and paste code and treat it as your own. Epic has also provided a way to strip source out of packages, and for programmers that don't want their code used by others, it's a perfectly valid and viable way to protect the effort they put into their code.

By that same line of reasoning, people shouldn't be using decompilers to recreate source that the author stripped out. Have respect for the effort it takes to create something and respect the right of the programmer to protect their work when they so choose. If that seems unfair to you, to not be able to see how someone did something and learn from it, you aren't thinking of what's truly important - the right of the programmer to not release to the public the source of his work.

I haven't in the past stripped code from my projects when I release them, but for my UT3 projects of sufficient size (gametypes and mods), I will be. I help when people ask me intelligent questions, but people that are starting out need to realize that the quickest path to understanding does not lay in simply copying what someone else did.

It lays in figuring things out for yourself as much as possible.

[schenksmill]

I'm rather happy they included the option. I've been burned in the past by other people releasing things based off my code, so I'm hesitant at best to release anything I make into the wild if they can at all rip things out of it. Having the option to rip the source out of the .u is great in my opinion.

[KewlAzMe]

Well i have a 2-sided feeling for it... I mean i totally understand and think you are right.... you should be able to strip parts of code from people... especially if you worked hard on it and don't want someone to come up and steal big chunks of code and release a similar mod under a different name with no credit to the original author.... on the other hand I think of UT as a sandbox to make mods and cool stuff in and for those still learning uscript it is helpful to have references, or at least some general ideas on how someone implemented something... just to get you on the right track.

[LennardF1989]

In that case, they can contact me to ask how something works, then I'll determine if he/she can know. Anyway, we're goin offtopic...

Did someone else also noticed that the UE3 section on UDn is offline, UPDATE! :D (I think).

[schenksmill]

I hope it's an update....I'm still holding out hope that there is (will be???) some sort of mod structure in UT3, rather than a chaotic folder mess like it UT2003

[Pfhoenix]

Well i have a 2-sided feeling for it... I mean i totally understand and think you are right.... you should be able to strip parts of code from people... especially if you worked hard on it and don't want someone to come up and steal big chunks of code and release a similar mod under a different name with no credit to the original author.... on the other hand I think of UT as a sandbox to make mods and cool stuff in and for those still learning uscript it is helpful to have references, or at least some general ideas on how someone implemented something... just to get you on the right track.

The beautiful thing about UT is that is is a sandbox. That doesn't change the nature of written code, though. It is definitely great that the source is open enough for about anyone to figure out how to do what they want, given the skill, time, and inclination.

[Bonehed316]

Your code, no matter how great, is never good enough that you should think you "own" it. Epic releases ALL of their code for ALL of their games. It makes you just look silly, or paranoid. You're not that good, no matter who you are.

[Gegen2007]

Your code, no matter how great, is never good enough that you should think you "own" it. Epic releases ALL of their code for ALL of their games. It makes you just look silly, or paranoid. You're not that good, no matter who you are.

Yes and no, The source of scripts is freely available but afaik, but the engine source code is not open source,

[Pfhoenix]

Bonehed316 : it has nothing to do with how good someone thinks they are. They *do* own their own code, period. They make the choice to release it or not. Epic left that up to the developer instead of mandating it as a part of the usage license agreement.

[schizoslayer]

Sometimes it's best not to release the code so that nobody knows how buggy or hacked together it is anyway ;)

[Alex D]

Your code, no matter how great, is never good enough that you should think you "own" it. Epic releases ALL of their code for ALL of their games. It makes you just look silly, or paranoid. You're not that good, no matter who you are.

I think a good parrallel for this would be the graphical side of it. Do people not own the models they make? It's the same thing, creative rights, if people don't own the code they write and are silly and paranoid if they don't release it, why don't you see people distributing all the source media used to create their models for anyone to use to create their own? Anyone who makes something creatively, unless under contract or license which transfers ownership to another party or said creation infringes on copyright, has the right to own the work they create.

[Tonester]

^^ agree.

As good as US is, there are a ton of cool things that people have to be very creative and "hacky" about in order for it to work.

Personally, I'll probably end up releasing the "how to" for alot of our TC/MOD's custom content and snippets of source code, but I will not be releasing anything close to all of our source code unless it is for specific new functions or something.

[LennardF1989]

^^ agree.

As good as US is, there are a ton of cool things that people have to be very creative and "hacky" about in order for it to work.

Personally, I'll probably end up releasing the "how to" for alot of our TC/MOD's custom content and snippets of source code, but I will not be releasing anything close to all of our source code unless it is for specific new functions or something.

QFE... :cool: I would do likely the same.

[Bonehed316]

Well, with textures and models, there's no secret to how its made. I never said it was okay to rip someones code, model, or whatever, but I am saying that if you think your code is so great that no one else should be allowed to see how you did it, you're fooling yourself.

[illincrux]

Man, you all are making this way overcomplicated.
1. It's a mod and not something you've built from the ground up.
2. Some people like to share and some people don't.
3. Lets get back to the topic at hand. =]

[LennardF1989]

I agree with all and especially number 3.

[Tonester]

I'm anxiously awaiting the "how to" for TC's as well. I originally wanted to just do a MOD, but our design calls for far too many changes to code/UIs/Pawns/Camera/etc.

[Dark[NSF]]

I'd like to see, because right now my whole mod is a gametype =/ haha

[iservealot]

I too am awaiting official details on the "correct" way to do a TC mod. Mainly, I want to know how I can get the game to create/ read a new "game" folder. For example, not look at the "UTGame" folder.

[schenksmill]

I too am awaiting official details on the "correct" way to do a TC mod. Mainly, I want to know how I can get the game to create/ read a new "game" folder. For example, not look at the "UTGame" folder.

Amen.....i've been waiting for this since release :D
anything like the -mod switch from UT2004 would be beyond awesome

[LennardF1989]

Oh, come on please! We only need a command line or something! I'm already waiting more than 2 weeks now.

[{SAP}THEEDGE]

Yeah....get in line....still waiting on a Linux server!!:D

[LennardF1989]

Bump :mad:
Too short message: Bump :mad:

[schenksmill]

-mod=<mod> command line switch for patch 2 please? :D