Mantas are completely imba. And map vehicle imbalance is STUPID

[innociv]

Seriously what the heck. It's just as bad as beta was.

We thought "Oh durr it's because the avril is far away. It's just the map" But almost ALL maps are like that.

And the biggest issue is that, why the hell does the Manta *HAVE* to be countered by a scorpion, avril, or 50/50 chance a tank, when all the other vehicles can pretty easily be killed with other weapons?

Tank I can kill with link gun or flak no problem.
Raptor i can kill with stinger or shock rifle.
Scorpion i can kill with flak, rockets, stinger, whatever.
So on and so forth.

The manta.. It's pretty much impossible to kill with anything but another vehicle or an avril. And not only that, but the manta is the best at killing people next to the Nightshade, or just as good as the nightshade.

So, what the hell? Who thought this was a good idea?


At least in UT2004 you could shock rifle to push them away and dodge jump to avoid them. Both these things, the only defense there was against Mantas, is gone. Now I hated UT2004, but at least Mantas weren't so insanely overpowered then as they are now


There should be a defense against them, like being able to crouch so they can't roadkill you. Or make mantas explode instantly when someone tries to enter them. OR hell, just remove them from the game. They're just so extremely broken.


------
Oh and no only this, what the heck is up with one team getting a nightshade, and the other not, on some maps?
Like Avalanche
Nightshade > Infinite number of Hellbenders.
On Islander..
Nightshade > 50 turrets.

Nightshade is the best vehicle in the game, by far. Hell, it's even better than Mantas most of the time. I've gotten just as many monster kills with the nightshade as I have with the Manta, but i've gotten wayy more godlikes and unstoppables with the nightshade, it just takes a little longer before i get my first monster kill with the nightshade since i have to wait for the people to come to me instead of going to them.


But I can fight Nightshades alot better than Mantas. It's just newbs amking easy kills with me in a Nightshade. Against Manta's theres often no denfese. I usually can't even weapons switch to a freaking avril fast enough to shoot one by the time i see it. Or with how fast they move the avril shoots into a damn wall.
Mantas = broken.
Unbalanced vehicle balance on a map isn't so bad, but it definitely is when one side gets a nightshade and the other doesn't.

[Snky_Bstrd]

You're "imba". You're also newb and hax.

[Silverado-CoA]

hammer beats mant, end of story....and its one of the most fun kills in the game

[innociv]

hammer beats mant, end of story....and its one of the most fun kills in the game

Um wrong.
It takes 2 hits to kill the manta. The Manta recovers and kills you faster than the firing delay on the impact hammer.

Lots of people try to say that. Would you like to 1vs1, you having an impact hammer, and I have a Manta?

TWO people with impact hammers against a Manta MAYBE. But 2vs1 only reinforces how imba it is.


Also take into account how Mantas sneak up on you and kill you from behind 75% of the time. you can't freaking hear them.

The sound distance in UT3 is just ass for everything.

[thejinx]

Hitscan + Knockback = Shock Rifle. Right tool for the right job at longer range. Manta jockeys can't get close enough to splatter you. They ARE pretty frail, ya know. Just like hitting a guy with a shield belt, jump boots, and a link gun.

[Reise]

If I know a Manta is coming for me it's usually very hard for them to kill me. Flak, Stinger or Shock Rifle are best to use while strafing their attacks. You just have to know how they move and how to exploit their crappy sideways/backwards maneuverability.

[innociv]

Hitscan + Knockback = Shock Rifle. Right tool for the right job at longer range. Manta jockeys can't get close enough to splatter you. They ARE pretty frail, ya know. Just like hitting a guy with a shield belt, jump boots, and a link gun.

I've had people try this against me plenty of times. Uhm.. the push isn't nearly high enough to stop it.


Just like hitting a guy with a shield belt, jump boots, and a link gun.
And "speed boots" and "armor of insta-killing thorns". That'd put into perspective how a Manta is well, yes, and why they're so overpowered.


The only RELIABLE way I've found to kill them is with the shock rifle or flak, AND jump boots. But it shouldn't REQUIRE jumpboots. Jumpboots are way less plentiful and harder to get to than mantas.

[Killerus]

mantas are easy to take down on foot. Impact hammer is the best IMO. Yes it takes 2 hits for a full health manta, but 99% of the time mantas already have damage to them.

Quit running in a straight line and start looking around more and you will be surpised how much longer you live.

[innociv]

Quit running in a straight line and start looking around more and you will be surpised how much longer you live.

Maps aren't flat.

[thejinx]

Jumpboots are way less plentiful and harder to get to than mantas.

So get another manta.

[FooZ]

manta is piss easy to kill......

[Ultron]

Mantas are easy to kill, but they can rack up a ton of kills before that happens. The only thing that really competes with that is another Manta, or a Scavenger.

[Mokuba]

1-AVRL
2-Link gun

[»madMar†y»]

Mantas are easy to kill, but they can rack up a ton of kills before that happens. The only thing that really competes with that is another Manta, or a Scavenger.
Well I have only toyed around with the Scavenger for a short while, so I'm probably not aware of all popossibilities, but to me it looked like the Scavenger was pretty much defensless against a manta. You can't really lock that ball thing onto anything and the secondary fire are rotating knives, so that wasn't much effective against them either..

[innociv]

Mantas are easy to kill, but they can rack up a ton of kills before that happens. The only thing that really competes with that is another Manta, or a Scavenger.

Right.
You get at least 5 kills for every death in a Manta even if you're a n00b.

Manta is like Halo crap. Skilless noobness leveled playing field.

Killing with a manta doesn't take a fraction of the skill it takes being on foot. Anyone with a Manta has a fair chance to kill someone with real skill.

[Biznarie]

One of the gameplay changes in the BETA patch is

- Flak, Rocket, and Shock do slightly more damage to manta and viper.

[Dario D.]

I agree with the original poster, especially with the point that most of the time you can't even hear them coming. I far prefer more subtle (but more heavily armored) vehicles like the Ghost in Halo, which serve their purpose without causing frustration among the 10 people who get slaughtered before the vehicle gets taken out.

[Mr Evil]

Hitscan + Knockback = Shock Rifle. Right tool for the right job at longer range. Manta jockeys can't get close enough to splatter you. They ARE pretty frail, ya know. Just like hitting a guy with a shield belt, jump boots, and a link gun.
Did they increase the knockback in the final game? I've managed to hold off Mantas several times with it which I never managed to do in the demo, but that might be because I've only played vs. bots so far, who might somehow be extra affected (I didn't play any botmatches in the demo).

[Richteralan]

Did they increase the knockback in the final game? I've managed to hold off Mantas several times with it which I never managed to do in the demo, but that might be because I've only played vs. bots so far, who might somehow be extra affected (I didn't play any botmatches in the demo).

Mantas are the same. Nothing changed.

[-delete-]

THe manta sufferes from SEVERAL massive problems

1) they are incredibly silent. by this i mean you really cannot hear a manta coming at you from behind or the side or anything until it is already too late. but then again all the vehicles are way too silent so i guess Epic decided that it was balanced if you cant hear ANY vehicle.
2) the impact hammer is not a viable counter measure. i say this because it is only effective if the manta is coming directly at you and even if the manta gets hit once all the pilot has to do is start pew pew pewing with the lasers and the person with the hammer is dead in 2 seconds.
3) the ROF of the plasma is way too high
4) the damage output of the plasma is way too high but this has more to do with the ROF than the damage per blasma bolt.
5) it is far more agile than the 2k4 manta making it much more beastly and the vehicle that will win maps for teams.



as for things like the scavenger... that thing is LAWL. fun as hell but absolutely lawl. it is the new scorpion in terms of being only useful of getting from point a to point b. however you can get some decent crush kills if you know how to use the ball mode effectively.

the nightshade is hilarious. can we say free kills? but this thing suffers from the lack of sound ALL the vehicles suffer from. the link beam on the nightsade is terrible as it gives no feedback as to if it is doing damage at all. that is until something flies off the vehicle or something. plus the damage output it horrible. i can understnad it since it is basically an invisible steamroller but sheesh why even give it the link beam in the first place then?

[Lulzy]

The next patch will increase the damage and knock back received ("slightly" as they put it) by mantas from shock rifle, flak and rockets. So yeah it's getting nerfed.

Manta is fine, l2play

[Jonny]

I find the sniper rifle the best weapon to counter the manta - the shots seem to do a fair chunk of damage to it and theres a chance you'll headshot the driver.

If that fails throw your computer down stairs...the manta will never bother you again

[Ultron]

If that fails throw your computer down stairs...the manta will never bother you again

LOL!

That's somewhat like my cure for the hiccups.

What you do is, you hold your breath.

For 10 minutes.

You'll _never_ have hiccups again....

[kaluro]

as for things like the scavenger... that thing is LAWL. fun as hell but absolutely lawl. it is the new scorpion in terms of being only useful of getting from point a to point b. however you can get some decent crush kills if you know how to use the ball mode effectively.



It's actually quite a powerful weapon, but only versus infantry.. As you said, leaping in the air, changing into a ball heading down the earth towards an infantry unit is quite effective.. If you got the hang of it.

But also when you're a ball, and press left mouse button your 'legs' will start rotating like a razorblade for X seconds, which will kill off infantry fairly easy as well.

Also it seems faster than any other vehicle except for maybe the manta/Viper ( ? ), making it a great transport vehicle.

[-delete-]

The next patch will increase the damage and knock back received ("slightly" as they put it) by mantas from shock rifle, flak and rockets. So yeah it's getting nerfed.

Manta is fine, l2play

actually the manta isnt getting nerfed at all. the fact that it is still ninja silent is a massive problem. only thing changing in the patch (which i already have btw) is the weapons doing more damage and that isnt really too big an issue when you are dead before you even see or hear the manta or viper.

[innociv]

Yeahhh the silence-ness of it(and all vehicles) is so stupid.

Manta's would be alot less effective if you could hear them coming.


And the scavenger as great for defending nodes. It's drone thing heals up nodes VERY fast, will take out people far away, and the rollign to someone then spinning when they're trying to be an orb is great.

The scavenger just doesn't seem as great compared to overpowered manta's and vipers.



Oh and actually Manta's movement is nerfed a bit over UT2k4. But they turn way faster, and there is no dodge-jump(which is a good thing. No dodge jump is good. Manta's not rebalced to take into account lack of dodge jump is BAD though ~_~)

If you look at JUST the manta in UT3 over UT2004, it's been nerfed. In reality though, the Manta is far better in UT3 than in UT2004 since they are much harder to avoid and other changes to the rest of the game.

[Reise]

Even though I feel dirty for doing it, the Manta is quite the killing machine. Just about every time I use one I get killing sprees or better, and it's worse if I make it into your base while you try and defend the core or flag. Lots of people get cut down that way.

[bclagge]

I love the manta like it is. The only problem I have with it is the lack of noise. That's what kept the manta from squishing you from behind in UT2k4. You could hear it coming.

For all of you whining that the manta is too powerful: try and learn to deal with it. There are many effective strategies for battling mantas. And really, vehicles are supposed to be powerful. Otherwise the wouldn't be fun.

[Therealjoe]

When i played againt the bots on godlike they managed to avoid getting crushed by the manta.

[Reise]

When i played againt the bots on godlike they managed to avoid getting crushed by the manta.

It's very possible to dodge a Manta, you just have to understand how someone driving it might move to try and hit you. Once you get the maneuvers down you can pelt them with Stinger fire until they either die or give up.

[Luseferous]

It's very possible to dodge a Manta, you just have to understand how someone driving it might move to try and hit you. Once you get the maneuvers down you can pelt them with Stinger fire until they either die or give up.

+1
Same goes for their plasma shots.

Impact Hammers Work well.
Flak primary & Stinger secondary also give Manta's an extremely hard time at close range.

Vehicle wise Raptor missiles are far better at killing them than in 2k4.
Goliaths are a good match for them as are Hellbenders.

So apart from the Scorpions, Raptors, Hellbenders, Goliaths, Impact hammers, Flak, Shock, Turrets, Rockets, AVRiL's, Sniper & Stingers what have Epic ever given us to kill Mantas with ? :)

I have not tried the the Necris vehicles out yet but will guess that they can also field some Manta killing power.

[Killerus]

It's very possible to dodge a Manta, you just have to understand how someone driving it might move to try and hit you. Once you get the maneuvers down you can pelt them with Stinger fire until they either die or give up.

i make manta drivers give up all the time :) used to be alot easier in 2k4 with double dodge jump, but it is still possible in UT3. It's all about timing and keeping the manta in your vision at all times. A well placed EMP hammer in the process usually makes them run away scared.

[Patarak]

The new patch is going to make the Manta more susceptible to being knocked away

[Kyllian]

Flak/Rox/Shock do more damage to Mantas in the beta ut3 patch.

As for the hammer, keep moving around the manta while you charge the altfire a second time. The manta may be much more manueverable, but a player can still run circles around it at close range

[9ades]

I'll give the new manta some credit. It can't ramp jump from one end of the map to the other like it could in ut2004. And anybody can use the new manta, evening the skill gap.

But yes, it is definitely overpowered. It owns tanks and one manta pilot can keep the entire enemy team occupied while a single player strolls away with the flag.

The best defence against it is camping a high place (it can't jump high at all now), a rocket salvo fired at it as it comes at you, a team of stinger shooting players, a scorp, or a raptor (though the manta pilot can still evade the missiles if he's good and knows where the missiles are coming from).

It needs more knockback applied to it, it made louder and less strafing acceleration. It's speed is fine.
:cool:

[D2F[Leo]]

I didn't read everything here, but a main rule in ONS and WAR is to never leave your base/node without an AVRiL. It's your own fault when you don't have the equipment to kill a manta, simple as that.

And btw: Actually the manta is nerfed a lot, compared to 2k4. ;]

[Xyx]

never leave your base/node without an AVRiL.
That's not as easy this time around. AVRiLs are pretty hard to come by in most places.

[Felin]

[03:09] <Felin> yea I heard vehicle balance is a big problem, hopefully some of it will get fixed in this first patch
[03:15] <*> i read the patch changes and though there were a lot of things, i don't remember balance changes or other warfare issues like sound being among them
[03:15] <*> maps aren't as good as 2k4's as well
[03:22] <Felin> you mean in general or all like primal and frostbite?
[03:23] <Felin> we may have to depend on the mod community to make the 2k4 maps for us, but who wants to play those again =/
[04:50] <*> in general, most of them have some gimmick that is pointless and most of them are 1-1-1 or some similar setup
[04:50] <*> frostbite was great

[Destini]

If you're arguing with the OP's point that the vehicles are imbalanced you've either never played vehicle modes competatively or your a dumbass, because it's frickin obvious...

[Felin]

11/21/2007 5:03:59 PM Felin have you played warfare?
11/21/2007 5:04:00 PM ** it took me some pub playing to see ppl exploit the bad areas of the game again
11/21/2007 5:04:03 PM ** yea
11/21/2007 5:04:06 PM Felin and?
11/21/2007 5:04:07 PM ** all last night and this morning
11/21/2007 5:04:11 PM Felin :-O
11/21/2007 5:04:11 PM ** annoying as ****
11/21/2007 5:04:15 PM Felin how
11/21/2007 5:04:17 PM ** I played torlan end game for 30 minutes
11/21/2007 5:04:28 PM ** they bring the orb back every 10 seconds to bring their node back up
11/21/2007 5:04:53 PM ** these nobodies terrible at mantas in 2k4
11/21/2007 5:04:54 PM ** are gods now
11/21/2007 5:04:59 PM ** I can win on foot with an avril
11/21/2007 5:05:00 PM Felin heh
11/21/2007 5:05:03 PM ** but the avril is being gay
11/21/2007 5:05:07 PM ** comes out as duds sometimes
11/21/2007 5:05:09 PM ** tons of no regs
11/21/2007 5:05:10 PM Felin ew
11/21/2007 5:05:13 PM Felin I remember that
11/21/2007 5:05:19 PM Felin more so than 2k4?
11/21/2007 5:05:19 PM ** trip rox dont kill mantas incoming
11/21/2007 5:05:22 PM ** dont even knock back
11/21/2007 5:05:26 PM Felin oh god D:

11/21/2007 5:06:21 PM Felin there are three manta knock back weapons though
11/21/2007 5:06:31 PM ** it moves too fast to matter

[Felin]

posting conversations with a couple of 2k4's best ONS players, not talking to OP

[D2F[Leo]]

That's not as easy this time around. AVRiLs are pretty hard to come by in most places.

True, I can't remember finding an AVRiL in a locker up to now. But still you can make sure that you spawn at a node where you can find one (given that you know the pickup places) or teleport there. Usually it's worth the 15 extra seconds you spend with looking for it, as you can take out several Mantas or Vipers (and Raptors and Cics and Furys.....:p) with it.

Actually the new AVRiL is even more fun than the 2k4 one - it's incredibly fast this time and people can get the shock of their life when you kill them in the very last moment before they run you over. ^^ And that's only the AVRiL... still shock secondary has some decent knockback against mantas, let alone that it's quite possible to dodge them again and again.

[BlackEyez]

I think the manta should behave like it did in 2k4. More noise to notice them incoming, more suspensible (sp?) to knockback and less manouverbility.

[innociv]

11/21/2007 5:03:59 PM Felin have you played warfare?
11/21/2007 5:04:00 PM ** it took me some pub playing to see ppl exploit the bad areas of the game again
11/21/2007 5:04:03 PM ** yea
11/21/2007 5:04:06 PM Felin and?
11/21/2007 5:04:07 PM ** all last night and this morning
11/21/2007 5:04:11 PM Felin :-O
11/21/2007 5:04:11 PM ** annoying as ****
11/21/2007 5:04:15 PM Felin how
11/21/2007 5:04:17 PM ** I played torlan end game for 30 minutes
11/21/2007 5:04:28 PM ** they bring the orb back every 10 seconds to bring their node back up
11/21/2007 5:04:53 PM ** these nobodies terrible at mantas in 2k4
11/21/2007 5:04:54 PM ** are gods now
11/21/2007 5:04:59 PM ** I can win on foot with an avril
11/21/2007 5:05:00 PM Felin heh
11/21/2007 5:05:03 PM ** but the avril is being gay
11/21/2007 5:05:07 PM ** comes out as duds sometimes
11/21/2007 5:05:09 PM ** tons of no regs
11/21/2007 5:05:10 PM Felin ew
11/21/2007 5:05:13 PM Felin I remember that
11/21/2007 5:05:19 PM Felin more so than 2k4?
11/21/2007 5:05:19 PM ** trip rox dont kill mantas incoming
11/21/2007 5:05:22 PM ** dont even knock back
11/21/2007 5:05:26 PM Felin oh god D:

11/21/2007 5:06:21 PM Felin there are three manta knock back weapons though
11/21/2007 5:06:31 PM ** it moves too fast to matter

Haha yeah. The more I play I think the orb should be doing 100% damage/healing of a node, not 200%. In other words, if it's fully healed by the other team you just instant destroy it. If it's neutral, you get it instantly capped to full health, if it's 50% damaged you get it with 50% life.

And all the other stuff mentioned with the maps and blah blah, especially how they're full of exploits and imbalance, it just show how Epic and the playtesters play with their asses.
I figured out all these exploits and things to abuse in just my first 2-3 hours playing. They've been making this game for 3 years.

That's why this game can never be played competitively.

[rhiridflaidd]

Agreed 100% with the 100% orb dammage idea. I haven't played enough to find the manta a problem. It certainly wasn't a problem in the demo (unless some idiot was taking a walk round the woods in the scorp rather than whizzing and exploding it so that it respawns quickly.

The problem with the manta as is said is with map design with poor access to avrils, and with the noise. I think that the "slight" tweak as Epic are doing in the patch the right approach, not doing an EA on us and nerfing vehichles out of all usefulness. Small tweaks and often is what's needed.

I find the stealthbender far more of a problem to counter. Boom out of nowhere....

[Killerus]

posting conversations with a couple of 2k4's best ONS players, not talking to OP

those conversations are pointless. Its a new game and the vehicles and gameplay are different. Theres a reason why they called it Warfare and not ONS 2.0

[Borbarad]

those conversations are pointless. Its a new game and the vehicles and gameplay are different. Theres a reason why they called it Warfare and not ONS 2.0

Agreed. Wafare is different than the two being a mesh of both game modes. It has the best of assualt and onslaught all in one. It's not the best onslaught, or the best assault, but it's good at both.

[Felin]

Actually...

"Warfare is 95% ONS and 5% assault"

[bclagge]

I think the manta should behave like it did in 2k4. More noise to notice them incoming, more suspensible (sp?) to knockback and less manouverbility.

The word you are searching for is "susceptible."

[Sterling]

It has the best of assualt

Really? I haven't seen 'the best of assault' in warfare. It's more like onslaught 2. The countdown nodes aren't like assault. The closest to it is the barricades in some level (downtown?) can be destroyed with redeemers.

[Xyx]

TankCrossing is more Assault than Onslaught. "Take the orb to the node", "Drive the Goliath over the bridge", "Drive the Goliath onto the pressure pad", "Pwnz0r teh enemy core"...


I can't remember finding an AVRiL in a locker up to now.
They aren't. And apparently they aren't supposed to be. I modified some weapon lockers in UEd and got some warnings explaining that the Longbow AVRiL and Sniper Rifle "should not be placed in lockers". It all worked fine anyway so I didn't get the point if there was one.

[rhiridflaidd]

Warfare is 50% ONS 40% CTF and 10% assault.

The point about the ineffectiveness of tripple rockets vs a manta is spot on. Rockets should really drive a manta back too - but the mantas just hover there.

In enclosed spaces, dealing with a manta was doable in ut2004 by pushing them against a wall then flaking them since they had nowhere to go. Now if a manta gets into a confined space it's an instant and pointless rampage since they can't be forced into corners. A shock combo also does far less dammage to mantas. A shombo above a manta's cockpit used to give me a manta to fly away and an easy frag. A shock combo now does far less dammage it seems.

[D2F[Leo]]

I just played about 3 hours of Warfare (20-32p) and still I don't see the problem with mantas. Sure, they are powerful, but imo not overpowered. You can do the same amount of damage and kills with a Viper if you handle it properly. And again: You aren't supposed to cross wide open areas by foot - of course you are cannon fodder like that. :p If you intend to go a longer and possibly dangerous way with your hoverboard, get an AVRiL and you are prepared.

I had several rampages and an unstoppable on a single map today, all with the manta; still I don't think that it's overpowered. Why? Because nearly every kill I got there was on someone who was noobishly running around without looking for cover or vehicles to get in, let alone that they mostly didn't have AVRiLs.

Keep your eyes open, be prepared (weapon-wise) and mantas aren't a big issue. ;)

Edit: I admit that the manta's sound has to be fixed, atm it's quite hard to them approaching. :/

[-delete-]

I just played about 3 hours of Warfare (20-32p) and still I don't see the problem with mantas. Sure, they are powerful, but imo not overpowered. You can do the same amount of damage and kills with a Viper if you handle it properly. And again: You aren't supposed to cross wide open areas by foot - of course you are cannon fodder like that. :p If you intend to go a longer and possibly dangerous way with your hoverboard, get an AVRiL and you are prepared.

I had several rampages and an unstoppable on a single map today, all with the manta; still I don't think that it's overpowered. Why? Because nearly every kill I got there was on someone who was noobishly running around without looking for cover or vehicles to get in, let alone that they mostly didn't have AVRiLs.

Keep your eyes open, be prepared (weapon-wise) and mantas aren't a big issue. ;)

Edit: I admit that the manta's sound has to be fixed, atm it's quite hard to them approaching. :/

so the fact that a manta can do the same if not more damage per second than a tank can do isnt at all disturbing? the fact that it is now more agile isnt disturbing?

oh and yes the sound is very bad. they are motorcycles on box fans for gods sake. they shouldnt be as silent as a ninja.

[Hickeroar]

Manta seriously screws up balance in the game. I drove a manta into a base during a WAR game (online) and came out about 20 seconds later 12 kills richer without firing a single shot. THAT is seriously messed up. If a manta is coming at you, you probably have a 90%+ chance of coming out dead. You have a better chance against any single other vehicle in the game. I even last about 50/50 against darkwalkers and they're supposed to be super baddies.

There are seriously very few truly effective defenses against the things. You can't jump over them, you can't duck under them, the only weapon in the game that slows them down is the ASMD and you have to hit them EVERY SINGLE shot for it to slow them enough to keep from hitting you (and it still takes like 6 shots to kill the things). The hammer is completely hit and miss. Most of the time the shots don't register or something isn't lined up perfect.

One of the worst things is that Avril shots RARELY ever make contact. The person just makes a minor course correction and the Avril rocket completely misses. I've fired dozens of Avrils at Mantas. Know how many have made contact and resulted in a kill? Ready for this? Try ONE. ONE single Avril out of dozens actually killed a Manta I had locked on to. It was torlan, the guy was making a beeline for his prime node, he went in a straight line without changing direction at all, i shot it from a hilltop, it made contact. That is the ONLY time.

I rarely get in a manta and come out with less than 5 more kills under my belt. Most of the time it's way more than that. Regardless of what the fanbois want to say, the vehicle IS highly unbalanced.

Mantas, imho, need to be nerfed...or you at least need to be able to duck under them or jump over them. There's nothing like jumping and being killed by the mysterious empty space above one of the wings...

[bclagge]

Manta seriously screws up balance in the game. I drove a manta into a base during a WAR game (online) and came out about 20 seconds later 12 kills richer without firing a single shot. THAT is seriously messed up. If a manta is coming at you, you probably have a 90%+ chance of coming out dead. You have a better chance against any single other vehicle in the game. I even last about 50/50 against darkwalkers and they're supposed to be super baddies.

There are seriously very few truly effective defenses against the things. You can't jump over them, you can't duck under them, the only weapon in the game that slows them down is the ASMD and you have to hit them EVERY SINGLE shot for it to slow them enough to keep from hitting you (and it still takes like 6 shots to kill the things). The hammer is completely hit and miss. Most of the time the shots don't register or something isn't lined up perfect.

One of the worst things is that Avril shots RARELY ever make contact. The person just makes a minor course correction and the Avril rocket completely misses. I've fired dozens of Avrils at Mantas. Know how many have made contact and resulted in a kill? Ready for this? Try ONE. ONE single Avril out of dozens actually killed a Manta I had locked on to. It was torlan, the guy was making a beeline for his prime node, he went in a straight line without changing direction at all, i shot it from a hilltop, it made contact. That is the ONLY time.

I rarely get in a manta and come out with less than 5 more kills under my belt. Most of the time it's way more than that. Regardless of what the fanbois want to say, the vehicle IS highly unbalanced.

Mantas, imho, need to be nerfed...or you at least need to be able to duck under them or jump over them. There's nothing like jumping and being killed by the mysterious empty space above one of the wings...

I disagree. I have no trouble taking out mantas. Not that I don't get killed a fair amount. But it's 50/50. Other weapons that cause knockback are shock primary (as much as secondary) and stinger alt-fire. Hellbenders and especially scorpions will take down a manta in seconds.

I have a few dud AVRILS, but nothing like what you're describing. I think there's a problem with your technique.

The manta was powerful in previous games too. I like it that way.

Just to sum it up appr. in order of effectiveness against the manta:
1. Scorpion
2. AVRIL
3. Raptor
4. Tank
5. Hellbender
6. Another manta
7. Shock primary
8. Shock secondary
9. Stinger alt-fire
10. Impact hammer (never used it, but I'm told it's effective)

And also not completely defenseless against the manta:
1. Flak cannon
2. Rocket Launcher

And while not ideal, the Darkwalker and Vipers are pretty effective too. I'm fine with the manta the way it is.

[supreal]

Epic really needs to do something about the horrible vehicle audio, the OP is right about the fact that you can't even hear a manta coming at you from behind. This was a major defense against them in ut2004, with surround sound or headphones on a player could actually hear the vehicles approaching form all angles. The lack of this in UT3 really hurts the balance between foot soldiers and vehicles.

[Wail of Suicide]

I think that, if we give it a few weeks, we will see some real statistics come out on how effective Mantas are. It's too bad we don't get match-specific statistics tracking (though I assume Epic would have access to this sort of detailed tracking information), because I'm pretty confident we'd see a majority of any kills made in a WAR game being done by Mantas and Vipers, followed by Goliaths and Darkwalkers perhaps.

[UndeadRoadkill]

One of the worst things is that Avril shots RARELY ever make contact. The person just makes a minor course correction and the Avril rocket completely misses. I've fired dozens of Avrils at Mantas. Know how many have made contact and resulted in a kill? Ready for this? Try ONE. ONE single Avril out of dozens actually killed a Manta I had locked on to. It was torlan, the guy was making a beeline for his prime node, he went in a straight line without changing direction at all, i shot it from a hilltop, it made contact. That is the ONLY time.

I kill mantas often with the avril. But that's when I have the avril. And when I see the manta before it squashes me. Very frequently I'm squashed from out of nowhere, or trapped without an avril, or squashed from out of nowhere while trying to get the avril.

[innociv]

I'd also liek to point out that there is a bug where you can't lock onto manta's in closed in spaces. This is a huge problem in that one very small warfare map that has 2 mantas per side and is like within a cave.
Also known as the map that people don't actually play, they just repeatedly say "gay map" "worst ****ing map ever" "who the hell made this ****?" whenever people are dumb enough to vote for it.

The map would actually be good without all the mantas, or with just 1 manta and the avril lockon bug fixed and the mantas nerfed.


Manta seriously screws up balance in the game. I drove a manta into a base during a WAR game (online) and came out about 20 seconds later 12 kills richer without firing a single shot. THAT is seriously messed up. If a manta is coming at you, you probably have a 90%+ chance of coming out dead. You have a better chance against any single other vehicle in the game. I even last about 50/50 against darkwalkers and they're supposed to be super baddies.

There are seriously very few truly effective defenses against the things. You can't jump over them, you can't duck under them, the only weapon in the game that slows them down is the ASMD and you have to hit them EVERY SINGLE shot for it to slow them enough to keep from hitting you (and it still takes like 6 shots to kill the things). The hammer is completely hit and miss. Most of the time the shots don't register or something isn't lined up perfect.


Against darkwalkers I usually come out on top 90% of the time. It's sad. While Manta's i die about 90% of the time to. (and 75% of those deaths are them getting me when I never even saw them. This is because of the stupid sound issue)

I just get close to them, circle faster than they can turn, and flak or link primary on them.

and I believe it's 7 shock hits to kill them. It's not like Manta's can jump and move insanely fast though, and come out of no where on you 75% of the time though, right?


I think that, if we give it a few weeks, we will see some real statistics come out on how effective Mantas are. It's too bad we don't get match-specific statistics tracking (though I assume Epic would have access to this sort of detailed tracking information), because I'm pretty confident we'd see a majority of any kills made in a WAR game being done by Mantas and Vipers, followed by Goliaths and Darkwalkers perhaps.
I'd put Nightshade above the DW and Goliath on the maps that have it. I have 250+ kills and 8 deaths in the Nightshade.

I can get way more kills with the Manta and Viper, but my deaths are higher. That's why I'd say the Manta is more overpowered. While manta is not hard to kill, it's hard to kill before it takes out 5-20 people.


You can do the same amount of damage and kills with a Viper if you handle it properly.
.. that's because the viper is overpowered too.

Manta - Viper - Nightshade are the list of overpowered vehicles in that order.

The nightshade isn't quite as overpowered as you don't have so many of them on maps, and people have to come to you instead of you going to them, and it's rather defenseless when it's found. The Nightshade is pretty much just overpowered against idiots. It could use getting 100-200 hp knocked off of it and have it's ramming damage cut in half though when invis, or nearly removed even.

Pretty funny coincidence how the 3 most powerful vehicles all are most effective by running people over, and are ones that sneak up on you/appear out of no where eh?

[Mouton]

Also take into account how Mantas sneak up on you and kill you from behind 75% of the time. you can't freaking hear them.

The sound distance in UT3 is just ass for everything.Really agree on that. Not only for Mantas, but for EVERYTHING. All the time someone sneak in my back and I never hear him and don't tell me that I'm deaf cause I'm the one with the best hearing in my whole family, I have a Soundblaster X-Fi with the Logitech Z-5500 speakers... so I know it's definitively the game that have a problem, not my ears.


mantas are easy to take down on foot. Impact hammer is the best IMO. Yes it takes 2 hits for a full health manta, but 99% of the time mantas already have damage to them. Ya f*ck the people with their "You are just noob or Just use the hammer!". For now, the EMP of the hammer is pretty much the only way to kill a manta up to close. Flak primary is way too inaccurate "too wide spread", the shock no more make them bounce.. just to help and stinger does almost no damage to him. But hey, the hammer only works versus stupid players. Since I know this, why the hell would I try to run over an enemy that pull out the hammer?! I'll stay at range and shoot him down. Let's pretend the enemy in manta is semi-noob. Since it takes 2 full shot to kill a 200hp manta, I think after the first time he gets hit that he will understand and won't try again to go at you. It also make so much noise when you load it that if he's not deaf he will hear you charge. (-_-)

[innociv]

Let's pretend the enemy in manta is semi-noob. Since it takes 2 full shot to kill a 200hp manta, I think after the first time he gets hit that he will understand and won't try again to go at you. It also make so much noise when you load it that if he's not deaf he will hear you charge. (-_-)

Yar like if someone ever tripple rox's me i run away from them. It only takes 5 seconds to heal the manta up to full health.


But i've faced people with hammers.. usually they don't get their shot off. Generally you can jump over them and back up into them faster than they can react to turn around :/

[Lee_Shagwell]

tanks in ut2004 were grocely overpowered but i hardly ever got caught out by them as I avoideded going near them.

If you can't avoid a manta then you need to PUT THIS GAME down and go and play halo.

If you see a manta coming then take cover, i don't buy all this "cant hear them" crap, this is an FPS, you should know whats behind you at all times either by looking or running back up against the wall.

Stop being a bunch of console noobs and enjoy the god damn game.

[Felin]

console ppl arent the only ones complaining about the manta, guy.

[-delete-]

tanks in ut2004 were grocely overpowered but i hardly ever got caught out by them as I avoideded going near them.

If you can't avoid a manta then you need to PUT THIS GAME down and go and play halo.

If you see a manta coming then take cover, i don't buy all this "cant hear them" crap, this is an FPS, you should know whats behind you at all times either by looking or running back up against the wall.

Stop being a bunch of console noobs and enjoy the god damn game.

i find it amusing that you would be so ignorant as to say "put your back to a wall" when the vehicular gametypes are mostly done on large OUTSIDE maps. so please enlighten us oh wise one how we are supposed to put our backs to walls that are 100+ feet away.

you really didnt think that one out did ya? and as someone who has been playing UT since 1999 and playing ONS since the demo i think your comment of people going back to consoles is absolutely ridiculous. sure i own a 360 and a wii but i prefer PC games. and if with the latest sound equipment i, and others, cant hear a manta till it is 5 feer from us then i think you are either deaf or not adept at picking up audio cues since there are plenty of people who have had the same complaint as me. you sir are in the obvious minority.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Why is it that when people get owned by something, it's becasue the other person is a "n00b"?

You have problems taking out a manta? Try doing something you haven't tried before. Like enjoying a challenge. Have you tried all of teh weapons against a manta? Even stinger secondary? I doubt that. The stinger secondary keeps mantas at bay, but you have to keep moving. A single hammer EMP, and a couple of stinger hits, and Mantas go down. Or soften them up as they come in, and then hammer them if they don't back off.

Mantas aren't that tough, but you have to be smart.

[-delete-]

Why is it that when people get owned by something, it's becasue the other person is a "n00b"?

You have problems taking out a manta? Try doing something you haven't tried before. Like enjoying a challenge. Have you tried all of teh weapons against a manta? Even stinger secondary? I doubt that. The stinger secondary keeps mantas at bay, but you have to keep moving. A single hammer EMP, and a couple of stinger hits, and Mantas go down. Or soften them up as they come in, and then hammer them if they don't back off.

Mantas aren't that tough, but you have to be smart.

you have many flaws with your argument but i will pick out just one as an example: if you get 1 EMp hit on the manta sure you can pull out the stinger and finish it off. HOWEVER, the EMP only works when you are head on with the manta so any smart manta pilot wont come at you head on and will clip you with a wing or run you over from behind or go in sideways or from above. couple that with the slow weapons switch time and you more than likely wont finish the manta. second if you do get that first EMP hit the smart manta pilot will stop trying to run you over and just use the pew pew plasma to kill you before you can even have the stinger up and spinning.

but like i said, that is only one counter to your opinion.

[Felin]

Either way, no one can talk about "owning" mantas because this game has not reached it's competative pinnacle yet.
If "Lee" ever gets to fight the top team on the warfare ladder in a team then he can say something, right now he's probably owning "n00b" manta drivers, and anyone that actually beats him is "lucky" or he forgets about, it's very common.
but no one is certainly "pro" right now.

[innociv]

UT3 isn't THAT different from UT2004 and UT99.

Skills are Skills.

Intelligence is Intelligence.

It only took me about 3 hours to memorize the powerups and weapon locations on the majority of the warfare maps and figure out lots of "tricks" for walldodge and double jump wall dodges to get around the map faster or avoid fall damage with some 'special' routes and such.

[Felin]

yea, but chances are lee hasnt played sMURF in a pub

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Regarding Avrils in lockers:

They aren't. And apparently they aren't supposed to be. I modified some weapon lockers in UEd and got some warnings explaining that the Longbow AVRiL and Sniper Rifle "should not be placed in lockers". It all worked fine anyway so I didn't get the point if there was one.

The point is that not everyone should be given Avrils, plain and simple. Avrils are special weapons, and should be placed as such in a map. You can't put redeemers in lockers, either. Quite simply, Avrils aren't meant to be standard weaponry.

Much as I hate to say it, the OP just sounds like some guy who can't effectively fight the vehicles. Stick to DM and CTf, then.

[Cuddles]

AVRILs arent special weapons, though they werent put in weapon lockers in 2k4, but they could be found almost in each main base.

[rhiridflaidd]

Can we take a step back.

THe beta patch knows that rockets, shock and flak do insufficient dammage and momentum to mantas, and it is being tweaked. Once you can start knocking the mantas around a bit, then we'll be back to a better balance.

[HavokChaos]

This problem is half L2P and half STFUPLZKTHXBAI!

If you call yourself a UT player in the sence of using vehicles and have not found an effective way to counter the manta, then I suggest you move back to playing Classic DM/TM/CTF.. You can complain about "balance" all you want, the manta can be easily countered in numerous ways.

Yes..it can be dodged..
Yes...you can p0wn with an impact hammer if you learn to strafe properly
Yes..you can crouch and dodge an incoming manta if they are not riding in low
Yes..there is an Avril in every map containing vehicles
Yes..Dark walker ALT fire does knock people out of there manta
Yes.. the scavenger p0wns face if you know how to aim while dodging (aim lock for the win)
Yes..Axon tank shots will dominate manta's IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FIGHT THEM properly..backing up and shooting wildly is not a tactic

Complaining about any facet in a game thats purely based on your abilities and skill is a useless argument.. Practice..don't complain that "oh noes!! theres a manta in the base! zomfg! help me's!!" when theres a scorpion and an Avril within reach..

The biggest problem I have is when people join a Vctf or a warfare game then wanna call people "Insert Vehicle Here -Noob"
you joined as game with the intent of using vehicles..were dominated...repetitively..and want to cry..please STFU or get pancaked,squished, blow to bits, burned,melted and destroyed

Again...learn your maps..learn the weapon locations..Fight..Live..or Die..easy as that.

[Lillien]

They should just change the vehicle hits from behind instant kill to doing something like 80 or 90 damage so that you have to either hit them twice or use a little bit of skill and shoot them with the gun once.

[phwaap!]

The biggest problem I have is when people join a Vctf or a warfare game then wanna call people "Insert Vehicle Here -Noob"
you joined as game with the intent of using vehicles..were dominated...repetitively..and want to cry..please STFU or get pancaked,squished, blow to bits, burned,melted and destroyed
Other than adding a few more weapons that are effective against the manta, that about sums it up. :D

[SLGDon]

you guys need to learn how to play
I may have only gotten killed like 3 times with a manta since the demo and game releases -,-

[xtruder]

You're "imba". You're also newb and hax.

that 's a firm grasp of gaming vocabulary you've got there, son.

[Haengematte]

Manta isnt easy to kill? New thing for me. Give me the Singer minigun and bye bye Manta...
If you dodge the right time he a Manta isnt a problem anymore:p

[-delete-]

Manta isnt easy to kill? New thing for me. Give me the Singer minigun and bye bye Manta...
If you dodge the right time he a Manta isnt a problem anymore:p

this is assuming you hear it. with the way UT3 is right now the vehicle sounds are about as bad as they can get.

[LR01]

try kill a Manta with a Manta

[Xyx]

I haven't yet seen anyone bother to list the limited ways in which a Hellbender/SPMA/Scorp/Goliath/WTFBBQ can be killed, so that speaks volumes about the Manta.


The point is that not everyone should be given Avrils, plain and simple.
Indeed. It's great that I can finally drive my Scorp/Bender through town without instant missile lock -> death. The AVRiL isn't that super versus Mantas, though. It seems to have equal chances of flying into a nearby wall, slamming into the terrain or actually hitting the Manta.

Don't see what that has to do with whether some weapons should or should not be placed in lockers, though. Adding the Sniper Rifle to a locker gives a similar warning (though that, too, works fine otherwise). Is the sniper really that speshul?


AVRILs arent special weapons, though they werent put in weapon lockers in 2k4
I can name more than a few lockers that contained AVRiLs. Torlan center, f'rinstance.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

Wow, I thought they balanced the manta pretty well. I've killed it plenty with flak (usually only 2 shots point blank, of course you need cover). Shouldn't be that hard with shock or link either. I do think that the Paladin is extremely underpowered.

[Felin]

They should just change the vehicle hits from behind instant kill to doing something like 80 or 90 damage so that you have to either hit them twice or use a little bit of skill and shoot them with the gun once.

If the manta remains quiet, this is actually a good suggestion

[innociv]

The sound issue is the biggest one. Not just with the Manta, but all vehicles.

The Manta definitely needs to be louder than the others, so you can hear it much further away. But all need fixing.

I'd be somewhat happy if JUST that was fixed. But I think their ability to roadkill should be nerfed too.

Scorpions should be the best roadkilling vehicle.. Not Manta, Viper, Nightshade.


I haven't yet seen anyone bother to list the limited ways in which a Hellbender/SPMA/Scorp/Goliath/WTFBBQ can be killed, so that speaks volumes about the Manta.


Indeed. It's great that I can finally drive my Scorp/Bender through town without instant missile lock -> death. The AVRiL isn't that super versus Mantas, though. It seems to have equal chances of flying into a nearby wall, slamming into the terrain or actually hitting the Manta.

Don't see what that has to do with whether some weapons should or should not be placed in lockers, though. Adding the Sniper Rifle to a locker gives a similar warning (though that, too, works fine otherwise). Is the sniper really that speshul?


Yeah Manta's and Vipers are really all people complain about being overpowered.

Avrils in lockers isn't the solution.
All vehicles besides manta's and vipers can somewhat easily be killed with the normal weapons. It's really just Manta's and Vipers you need to use Avril's against.
You kill paladin's, tanks, hellbenders, pretty much everything twice as fast using the link gun or stinger than the Avril.


But even then.. against Manta's especially, they make Avril's fly right into walls and crap. And there is a lock-on bug where you can't even lock onto mantas up close near buildings -_-

[Felin]

or at least one of the three knockback weapons in the lockers

[tab]

sound issue is even there in DM-just do a duel with impact hammers and try to spot the other-he will frag you from behind-in ut2k4 you can spot someone even when he hits a pool of water or a lift and now i cant spot someone who is running with the hammer through the entire map

[JohnDoe641]

Mantas are easy to kill, but they can rack up a ton of kills before that happens. The only thing that really competes with that is another Manta, or a Scavenger.
Or the flak primary.

It does the same amount of damage as the IH so it takes two hits form it, but the flak completely stops the manta in its tracks and forces it back a bit so the second shot is really quite easy to pull off.

Most people are surprised at how well it works against a manta with good timing.

[innociv]

Or the flak primary.

It does the same amount of damage as the IH so it takes two hits form it, but the flak completely stops the manta in its tracks and forces it back a bit so the second shot is really quite easy to pull off.

Most people are surprised at how well it works against a manta with good timing.

No he was saying the only thing that competes against the killing power of a manta was another manta or scavenger.

I wouldn't' say the scavenger competes with it, but the viper does.

Sure you can kill a Manta, ti's not THAT hard. What's hard is killing it before it kills 5+ people, even with a n00b in it.

[FeedBackTest]

The sound issue is the biggest one. Not just with the Manta, but all vehicles.

The Manta definitely needs to be louder than the others, so you can hear it much further away. But all need fixing.

Scorpions should be the best roadkilling vehicle.. Not Manta, Viper, Nightshade.Really agree. Hell... even in Serenity (big forest map) I couldn't hear the Levithian in my back until it gets really close and I have very good ears, a Soundblaster X-Fi with the Logitech Z-5500 speakers so it's not the quality of my PC that is the problem.

Getting road-kill rampage with the nightshade is so easy since it's invisible. Mostly at the middle node in Avalanche "snow map".

Scorpion blades are so useless, I do road-kills 10x more often by running over them than when I use the blades which most of the time just end up missing the target and breaking onto a wall.

The sad thing is that Epic ain't gonna do anything. There's been over 3000 posts of complaints against the Manta and they haven't really done anything to balance it. The little change they did in the first beta patch don't do sh*t at all for the gameplay...

[Sprint]

The link gun is like a 6-8 shot kill for against a manta. Knowing how fast the link gun shoots as well makes it pretty easy to kill them.

[Harmatia]

Personally, all of the problems with vehicles come down to sound.

[The War Keeper]

it is true the shock riffle doesnt do much of a knockback to manta in ut3 :\ maybe they should fix this issue after all its not that hard

[bclagge]

They already increased knockback once. Besides the sound I'm ok with the Manta. Once you get used to their new movement style, they're not much more difficult to deal with than the 2004 ones.

[Benfica]

If you are in a scorp, make sure that you choose them as primary targets instead of whoever is attacking you. If you have to die, to get rid of a manta that can own 2 or 3 teammates, or an Orb carrier, so be it.

[Harmatia]

And oh man, the scorpion has too much auto-aim. I like the AA, as it makes them effective against mantas and vultures, but on the PC version we can already aim, we don't need THAT much help. I don't even have to look where I'm shooting and it hits. Or, if I know a manta is nearby, but say, on the other side of the wall, I just spam over it and know that it'll hit.

[Benfica]

And oh man, the scorpion has too much auto-aim. I like the AA, as it makes them effective against mantas and vultures, but on the PC version we can already aim, we don't need THAT much help. I don't even have to look where I'm shooting and it hits. Or, if I know a manta is nearby, but say, on the other side of the wall, I just spam over it and know that it'll hit.
Hehe, I feel so good each time I get such a cheap frag because I get my revenge from UT2004 used to be :D

[plugh]

Stinger alt-fire will knock a manta back, similar to the shock alt-fire in ut2004, combine that with some smart moving and you're laughing. I agree that all the vehicles are a little bit quiet, in fact it sounds like the whole game needs a sound engineer to work on it for a few hours. The Deemer also needs a loud launch sound, I miss that a lot.

[D2F[Leo]]

And oh man, the scorpion has too much auto-aim.

It was kinda annoying in the beginning, since the 2nd hit mostly kills you. So by now I just learned to hop out as soon as I know that the first blob will hit my Manta and I also can't get around a corner fast enough.

[Sam Stride]

stinger alt fire pushes back mantas...

[Setheran]

I know this debate is old, but I thought it was interesting that according to my stats I've killed twice as many Mantas as any other vehicle. A lot of that was probably down to the Scorpion's excessive homing, but I've come to view the vehicle useful but also a complete deathtrap. In a busy match on Downtown the average life expectancy of a Manta is about ten seconds unless you spend the whole time fleeing.

[Nono]

One thing that is annoying is the fact that at least with the plasma bolas from the 2004 scorpion you got a chance to jump out of the manta before explosion , kills with the new scorpion on mantas are far too easy to come by, a blind player could rack up manta kills in a scorpion on Downtown.

[D2F[Leo]]

One thing that is annoying is the fact that at least with the plasma bolas from the 2004 scorpion you got a chance to jump out of the manta before explosion , kills with the new scorpion on mantas are far too easy to come by, a blind player could rack up manta kills in a scorpion on Downtown.

Yeah, it is easy and even feels too easy at times, but still there's the self destruct that is very tempting... so in fact I don't see that much Scorp-kills-Manta action going on since most Scorps on Downtown get smashed onto the centre node. :P

[Nono]

Maybe if they slowed the homing glob down or reduced the homing aspect + distance it flies or glob fire rate, or even electrified the manta for a moment to give the pilot chance to bail out. At the mo on Downtown in a manta, it's like... hit,hit dead, especially if there are two scorps defending the central node plus you're never really out of glob hit range.

[at0micsmurf]

I agree. I've had so many killing sprees in a manta, and half the time I'm not even trying very hard. When i am playing seriously i use the manta to quickly get to a node. When i am messing about i get in a manta to pancake people.

[Kyllian]

Personally, all of the problems with vehicles come down to sound.Agreed. Many times I've been run over and not only did I not hear them coming, I didn't even hear them when they went over my head

And oh man, the scorpion has too much auto-aim. I like the AA, as it makes them effective against mantas and vultures, but on the PC version we can already aim, we don't need THAT much help. I don't even have to look where I'm shooting and it hits. Or, if I know a manta is nearby, but say, on the other side of the wall, I just spam over it and know that it'll hit.Scorp doesn't auto-aim, it auto-seeks. 2k4 Scorp bolas did the same with the 2k4 Manta(kinda, the Manta was coded to suck up the bolas if they were within range)
UT3 Scorp is just more aggressive in seeking flying vehicles

Personally, I don't mind that it's easier to kill Mantas with the Scorp now. You can easily frag with the Manta so it's only fitting that it should be easily fragged

[bclagge]

Maybe if they slowed the homing glob down or reduced the homing aspect + distance it flies or glob fire rate, or even electrified the manta for a moment to give the pilot chance to bail out. At the mo on Downtown in a manta, it's like... hit,hit dead, especially if there are two scorps defending the central node plus you're never really out of glob hit range.

Really it takes three hits to kill you with the Scorpion. If you're quick enough and make it out after the first, you've got a pretty good chance. TBH I can't believe anyone is unhappy with the glob. The Manta is already one of the most hated (or feared :D) vehicles. The Scorpion glob, while effective, is only devastating to Mantas/Vipers. So I say leave the Scorpion glob the way it is, and leave Mantas the way they are too.

[Wail of Suicide]

Really it takes three hits to kill you with the Scorpion. If you're quick enough and make it out after the first, you've got a pretty good chance. TBH I can't believe anyone is unhappy with the glob. The Manta is already one of the most hated (or feared :D) vehicles. The Scorpion glob, while effective, is only devastating to Mantas/Vipers. So I say leave the Scorpion glob the way it is, and leave Mantas the way they are too.

The only reason I won't complain about the Scorpion projectile is because of the current state of Mantas and Vipers. I don't really care for the rock-paper-scissors approach being used here, but anti-Manta countermeasures like the Scorpion and Avril need to be as strong and easy-to-use as they are for the simple reason of keeping the game from turning into a total Manta killfest (many already are anyway ...).

[Harmatia]

I think a rebalance along the following lines would be awesome:

Scorpion auto-aim reduced on PC version. Tank auto-aim on manta also reduced. (Increase effectiveness against vehicles in return for nerfing to infantry)
Mantas receive vastly increased kickback from shock (as in, enough to completely keep a manta from touching you if you don't miss hit after hit) and take slightly more damage from just about everything except stinger.
Audio improvement so that mantas can't sneak up on people.

[Kyllian]

Tank auto-aim on manta also reduced.Tank doesn't have autoaim, it just fires straight

[Harmatia]

Tank doesn't have autoaim, it just fires straight

I'm pretty sure tank has aim assistance on mantas and hoverboard.

[bclagge]

It has plenty of splash damage, but I've never noticed any aim assistance.

[Harmatia]

Agreed. Many times I've been run over and not only did I not hear them coming, I didn't even hear them when they went over my head
Scorp doesn't auto-aim, it auto-seeks. 2k4 Scorp bolas did the same with the 2k4 Manta(kinda, the Manta was coded to suck up the bolas if they were within range)
UT3 Scorp is just more aggressive in seeking flying vehicles

Personally, I don't mind that it's easier to kill Mantas with the Scorp now. You can easily frag with the Manta so it's only fitting that it should be easily fragged

I agree that manta should be more easily countered, but the scorp againt manta feels like hax... just like manta against infantry feels like hax... scorp should have reduced effectiveness in return for infantry gaining it.

[Kyllian]

I'm pretty sure tank has aim assistance on mantas and hoverboard.
Not seeing anything like that in the code
The cannon only has a spread of 0.015, which makes it pretty damn accurate. Splash damage does the rest

[RUKKUS]

dude mantas are so easy! treat it like a mobile turret.... headshots!

[Harmatia]

dude mantas are so easy! treat it like a mobile turret.... headshots!

In a perfect world, where the lowest pinging server I ever play on isn't around 60...

[Harmatia]

Not seeing anything like that in the code
The cannon only has a spread of 0.015, which makes it pretty damn accurate. Splash damage does the rest

Hm. Guess I'm more accurate than I thought, XD.

[D2F[Leo]]

Nah, no changes to Mantas, Vipers and Scorps. I'm sorry to say, but after 3 months of playing this game I still can't recall a single moment where a Manta ran me over from behind and I didn't hear or see it. If you take heed of some basic rules in Warfare (and I guess it also applies for vCTF) you can avoid these deaths easily.


Tank auto-aim on manta also reduced. (Increase effectiveness against vehicles in return for nerfing to infantry)

:x So that's why you get called a n00b for tank ownage - people think it has auto aim. :[ Ever played 2k4? The tank is already nerfed like hell, you wouldn't believe what it did to infantry and anything else before. :P

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

I like the manta, its nerfed down to the point other people who havent been doing the running over can run down players gleefully :p
= me

What I cant notice is its sound that it makes
Maybe its the high pitch that I can not pick up on in a heated firefight.

Run down other players yourself and enjoy all the madness... pl0x? :rolleyes: