[Request] zp Instagib [Archive]

Taboen

11-23-2007, 03:52 AM

The problem with zp was, you didnt need to predict anymore, just shoot the damn hitbox on your screen instead of infront of the hitbox where he is going to move. Also, it gives people who put their downloads on advantages, harder to hit and at the same time having no trouble hitting people. And cheats are easier to make for ZP. The reason ZP was succesfull for UT99 instagib was because instagib standard there was not actually hitscan directly, it took like 50 miliseconds depending on the distance of the player. From UT2k3 zeroping never got popular anymore since standard was better. UT3 standard still is better, the only difference is that people are very hard to hit. Which is good IMO, but some people might get the feeling its because of its not Zeroping. That is not the case, UT3 hitboxes are smaller. I find it harder to make ultra kill in iDM than in nwDM and I'm a highskilled instagib player. Zeroping was nice in UT99 but will not see its return.

rdy

11-23-2007, 05:30 AM

also for ut2k4 Wormbo made a mut but it wasn#t realy working... but i can only agree with Taboen... and i hope the pings getting better (40 at speicherland in ut3 in ut2k4 i ha 16 -24 :( ) the game is just out and i think first some train then we can look if we need such a mut

Patarak

11-23-2007, 05:33 AM

Whats wrong with the current Instagib? I don't have the game...

How does zero ping instagib work?

rdy

11-23-2007, 05:51 AM

afaik there is no problem with insta gib... just that the pings aren't so good atm..

afaik the zp works that why that the lag/ping difference get calculated server side so that there is no "ping" = zero ping like you play offline

Taboen

11-23-2007, 05:58 AM

zeroping is this: if you hit someone on your screen it says to the server: I hit him here allthough so kill him now. While normal instagib works, you say to the server: I shot there, now you can calculate for me whether I hit him or not, whether he was standing there at that time at the server. But this gives people with high a disadvantage. The problem with ZP is that now you turn on downloads and have a advantage to the others, caus you will be a lot harder to hit. And also, you dont need to predict anymore just hit him spot on. Also cheatprogramms now only have to imitate the mutator and say exactly the same to server as the mutator does. Wormbo's mutator worked differently then zeroping did.

RenegadeXan

11-23-2007, 08:27 AM

well i was very good in ut99 ictf and pretty ok in ut2kx and now i cant do **** there were even type i was like, in ut99 i would of killed him and actually i had a ping under 15

ShocKWav3

11-25-2007, 05:12 AM

I'd like throw in my 2 cents.

ZP in UT99 for me was essential. Playing on a non zp server was unacceptable. The lag between when you fire and when it came out was insane, even on super low ping servers. I found my niche in LGI ZP CTF, specifically 135/35. Every server that anyone played on had the latest version of CSHP on it, and you just had to keep it up to date to keep the bots out. It's the price to pay for no lag.

And as for the laggy players. BOOT THEM. If they're lagging like **** they don't need to be playing. If you have a bad connection... sorry. When kick votes come around (and they will), this will be short work.

And what the hell are you saying Taboen? You no longer need to "predict" what they're doing? That's plain stupid. You still have to aim at them, and to aim at them, you have to follow them. It's an INSTAgib rifle. Not a 1-second-lag-rifle. When you played single player, did it lag at all? No. Instagib was meant to be instant, and ZP made it happen. It took a different type of skill, but skill none the less.

Now, onto the current status of instagib in UT3. It's not *near* as bad as non zp instagib was in UT99. I'm thoroughly used to playing ZP instagib and I can still do quite well. However the delay is still there, and it gets very annoying sometimes. I'll still play LGI even if ZP does not come out, but ZP would be such an asset. Waaay back when I was a noob, I never would have continued to play had I never found my first and current' clan's ZP server. The second I started playing, I noticed something different. I wasn't used to the terminology in the server's name, so I had no idea what ZP was. But I loved it! I could actually HIT people when I shot at them. It made sense.

I'm an avid believer in ZP and hope that it can make an appearance in UT3. I'm no modder, so I'll just have to sit back and wait.

|-Vp-| ShockWavE

ClanVP UT3 LGI Server: 8.9.9.36

Kronos

11-25-2007, 05:20 AM

The problem with ZP is that now you turn on downloads and have a advantage to the others, caus you will be a lot harder to hit.

No matter what, higher ping is always a disadvantage. If this were a real scenerio with ZP, the high ping player whom maybe downloading, will experience an excessive amount of unregisterd shots on any of the chosen players in the server, while the other players within the server with low ping may only get unregisterd shots torward the particular high ping player. Another thing the high ping player may experience is every other player warping, including his very own movement.

Deific

11-25-2007, 12:46 PM

ZP Killed the Instagib community, don't bring it back.

ShocKWav3

11-25-2007, 03:03 PM

Another stupid baseless claim.

The instagib community thrived for YEARS after ZP came out. It didn't kill anything.

Blink

11-30-2007, 09:18 PM

Zp Instagib is still going on in UT99. How did it kill it? There is an LGI Zp CTF 155/55 ladder, but the community has obviously diminished with so many players moving onto newer games. The public server is constantly full with 16 players.

There are also regular gravity competitions still going on. Turbo (Donut Hole Server) is still very, very popular. Pugs go on every night in LGI, not sure how frequently in reg grav though. However, the servers are almost always populated, even at obscure hours.

I'm all for zp if anti-cheat can keep up with the cheaters. I'll be playing either way, but I'd be overall much happier with a zp mod. Besides, if someone was willing to make it, no one would force those who do not like it to play it.

ScottUT

11-30-2007, 09:57 PM

ZP! was great.

For standard weapons too.... It should be brought back.

LAmprAZ

12-01-2007, 09:47 PM

::mad:NO! ZP Make COmmunity of Instagib GROW UP! Since All cups in UT99 are ZP this FALL CUP 2007 ALL CUps Was ZP and only 2 nonzp EC and ictf(non-zp) the rest of the Cups:

ICTFzp iTDMzp iDOMzp etc... so More Cups with ZP! means More Players u can check on CB!

Another Thing zp = Skillz Crosshair in front of Target Shot = Kill! Fair enought?

So..dont talk about what u dont know ok? THanks:D

ZP BACK! to instagib Only! plz...

in Classic not necessary because is easyyyyy, but on Gib is more like Shot in a dark hole and spam with no zp! so plz Give it Back ZP to UT3 epic:D

Assassin

12-01-2007, 09:49 PM

ZP Killed the Instagib community, don't bring it back.

WTF?
LIAR!!!

If not zero ping in UT99 Instagib, Instagib community is over long time ago.

Please made Zero Ping Mutator to Instagib.
Thanks.

ShocKWav3

12-01-2007, 09:50 PM

Let me translate for Assassin's gibberish:

We want zp :D

Dark Quill

12-02-2007, 12:02 AM

ZP Killed the Instagib community, don't bring it back.
QFT. It's just a stupid cheat-mutator. You'd be better off using Loaded and just blowing people apart with rockets.

As for ZP-Insta being the "crown jewel" of UT99; that was UT99.
I've played countless Insta matches on 2004, whether DM/TDM or CTF, and never had I had ping that was as terrible as described previously. If it's that bad for you, maybe it's a sign to upgrade form 56k, or perhaps a newer game.

ShocKWav3

12-02-2007, 01:28 AM

Everyone keeps saying it killed instagib, yet instagib thrived for years after ZP was released, and they coexisted fine.

So please, pray tell, how did it kill instagib?

Hickeroar

12-02-2007, 02:32 AM

ZP Killed the Instagib community, don't bring it back.

Uh... ZP brought more players than ever into instagib. It took people like me with a ping of 150-300 and allowed them to play an instant hit gametype. I could never do it until that point...

This was echoed all over the place. I've no idea what you're talking about.

Hickeroar

12-02-2007, 02:35 AM

QFT. It's just a stupid cheat-mutator. You'd be better off using Loaded and just blowing people apart with rockets.

If you didn't like ZP, you didnt have to play ZP. There were more standard IG servers around than ZP-IG servers.

ZP garnered a lot of hate from cable modem toting purist with superiority complexes... The thing is, it wasn't meant for them. It was meant for the VAST majority of players at the time who didn't have high speed internet yet. You rarely saw ANYONE in ZP servers with a ping less than 150. Everyone playing it was on dialup.

Bashing client side hit detection is just moronic.

Blink

12-02-2007, 06:18 AM

So is anyone capable of and willing to make this?

ShocKWav3

12-02-2007, 06:18 AM

And even then, it evolved beyond the 56kers and became something even normal people played. You didn't have to be on 56k to notice the difference! It was a very, very, apparent difference when playing.

ramp

12-02-2007, 08:00 AM

Taboen you are forgetting high ping players, the best netcode i see was on ut2004 with low ping, and now you can test it on ut3 you ping 40 on dos in game you ping 60/70, btw if in ut3 is harder to hit now imagine high ping players trying to hit lol so for me zeroping is welcome, and we can create 2 different type of cup's ladder's like in ut99 e.g Instagib Capture the flag & Instagib Capture the flag Zeroping. if people dont like zeroping play in nonzeroping ladder/cup.

Chadwixx

12-02-2007, 01:53 PM

I asked the same question but people would rather tell me what they think of the idea instead of if its possible.

My green car has a flat tire and need help how to fix it. For the next two hours all the people tell me is how bad the color green is for a car :)

Id personnally prefer zp gib. For some reason when i turn up the graphics i get a ton of hardware latency (only online, fps are perfect though) and it affects my shot badly. Offline its not an issue. Plus i could play on the euro servers which are very populated (much like i do in the orig ut)

LordRing

12-03-2007, 05:01 PM

There is obviously a high demand for this mod. Some dislike it, many love it. You can argue until you are blue in the face how much you dislike it but fact of the matter is, many people want it.

So instead of posting opinions about whether you like it or not, lets stick to the OP and answer the question Blink reiterated:

So is anyone capable of and willing to make this?

ness33

12-04-2007, 01:34 AM

So i dont mean to bring up an old war (as it was back with UT99), but why is it that so many UT players disliked ZP again? And don't give me the "requires more skill, because you have to predict where the person is going" speech because the skill requisition will all depend on how far u are from the server (which then brings the issue of where matches will take place). No matter how good you may think you are, if you play a decent person who has a better ping to a server, you will likely lose. In UT2k4... zp really never blew up as it did in UT99. People seem to dislike the fact that its "easier" to kill ppl when zp is on. I simply like it because it levels out the game, and it no longer matters how far u live from the server. The skill required to play the game will remain the same within everyone. This also brought about bringing people outside of the US (for you South American and European players) to play with us, and no need to shoot 3 seconds ahead of where someone will be. Everyone simply has to shoot the same way (only that it will take them longer to die). Anyway, i do hope that ZP releases in UT3, and i sure hope it becomes the popular mod to play. ZP for reg weapons was not as essential (only when you're using sniper rifles or shock rifles). But ZP sniper and ZP IG i believe is definitely a must. I'm just looking at it on the competitive side. When ladders go up for UT3, you will see very little issues on where servers are located. Everyone has to bring the same skill level to the match. You won't have the advantage because you live closer to the server. I can't stress that enough about ZP.

My 2 cents on it :cool:

Taboen

12-04-2007, 07:00 AM

Well the only reason I personally play instagib is because its so hard to shoot people. That's why I never liked to play zp, it was easier. Also, I like it very much because you have to predict where people are going. I just look at my ping and try to predict based on that ping. And knowing the fact that its easier to write cheatprograms in zp because you just have to make something that says to the server that you have hit him clientsided without even having to move your mouse... I never really was comfortable in ZP. But considering the ping problems we had in 2k4, and considering its hard again to hit someone in UT3 because of the smaller hitboxes. I can accept ZP.

Smurfie

12-04-2007, 11:36 AM

Yeah, there is a limit in ping/lag to where you "enjoy" predicting players' movements and actions. When it gets too high, it's getting less fun ;)

Assassin

12-04-2007, 11:52 AM

It's very easy and fun when you have 20/40 ping.
But when you have 80/120 ping not any more fun!
I'm Portuguese and of course I have bad ping in German and Netherlands server's (80/120 ping) and it's impossible play versus players playing home with 20/40 ping, we lose always.
But if German Netherlands Italy etc play in Spanish or Portuguese server's with ping 80/120 you say: Bad server, bad ping, bla bla bla... we don't play in that server.

Understand now?
So Zero Ping is very important to all, because give us equal shoot time.
And give opportunity to all play in all server's without problems.

rebel7254

12-04-2007, 11:56 AM

Uhm, if the gameplay for hitscan weapons was really designed to where you had to lead your shots, then it would be that way in single player too.

The people who whine about the possiblity of ZP are generally ping whores who don't want their guaranteed high score going away because they no longer have so much of an advantage.

In 2k4 instagib, for example, 90% of the time the "best" players and highest scorers were the people with pings in the 20s. That's not coincidence, folks. I honestly think something like ZP might enhance the growth of the IG community because MORE people will start playing and enjoy it than those who will quit or whatever because (sniffle) they don't own everyone anymore since their 20 ping doesn't give them much of an advantage.

I hate playing clans where at least 4 out of 5 players are really close to the server and they're all pinging 20s. I'm a firm believer that anything to reduce lag for the greatest number of people is always a good thing. Who knows.....ZP might be so good that it would even allow Euros and North Americans to play together competitively. That would be a HUGE plus for the IG community here, as IG is much more popular in Europe.

Right now, all you have to do is live close to Dallas or Chicago and you're instantly a superstar online. That's not how it should be IMO.

Taboen

12-04-2007, 12:01 PM

I dont use it as excuse at all, and there are dozens of matches I played where my whole team had 80 ping on their server. We just did a 2 server war. And yes, there are times we even won on the highping server ;>
I dont use it as excuse, its just I personally dont enjoy playing zp as much as I can enjoy non-zp. So if I have the choice I go for non-zp. You can make zp no problem, it is a very good thing for the community. Just dont expect EVERYBODY to play zp.

Assassin

12-04-2007, 12:01 PM

Sure rebel7254

ZP Instagib is the most big UT community.
And we want and need ZP in UT3!!!

Nothing more to say...

ness33

12-04-2007, 01:50 PM

Once again, everyone bringing up the point (as I did) that this can combine multiple communities (from different contries/continents) to create 1 big community if ZP was created. But it all falls into the laps of those who actually have the capability of doing this.

So is anyone capable of and willing to make this?

I'm so glad to see the input of people from different regions on here. It is very reassuring that we know we will have a thriving community in UT3 on the IG side of things (as it was not that popular in 2k4).

Blink

12-05-2007, 06:08 PM

Any modders out there working on it or interested? Would be greatly appreciated!

-]Vulcan0[-

12-05-2007, 07:03 PM

zp instagib and zp sniperarena are the best community on ut,they never can die because the zp,the are lots of players with 60/100 ping having fun to play vs european players and they still play ut because the lag on ut04 servers is impressive,of course player with low ping lost their ping advantage because skill=ping without zp...anyway who don't like zp server can play on regular server.
if someone open a p2p program whyle playing,you have lag both with zp and both without zp LOL
i think zeroping will be best mod for lot's of 99'ers players

WoLvErInE

12-05-2007, 07:25 PM

can we all just please stop with this nonsense about how great zp is, and make the damn thing already...lol. someone please help? im an uber nOOb and i want my zp now!
on a more serious note, ZP is a must!

Blink

12-06-2007, 05:20 PM

Can any modders out there even comment on the possibility of it? Regardless of whether you are willing to make it or not. Thanks...

ness33

12-06-2007, 05:40 PM

Yeah i'm wondering at the moment not so much if someone is willing to make it, but even if someone "can" make a zp for UT3. I remember in 2k4 there was that UT Comp. mod the Ping compensation thing. But it wasn't like zp. Hopefully there is someone out there who knows the back-end of UT3 to make something like this :(

N0bodyOfTheGoat

12-07-2007, 01:08 PM

mmmmmmmm... zeroping in UT3... [drool]

Reflex

12-08-2007, 06:55 PM

Blink

12-09-2007, 04:03 PM

Anyone know how to go about making this?

]NIN[

12-10-2007, 09:42 AM

Would love to see ZP for UT3.
Allows people to play on servers on the other side of the world with some decent playability. I couldn't play sniper on UT99 without it.

Maybe would pull some more of those UT99ers over to UT3.

Someone has to make it plz :D

N0bodyOfTheGoat

12-10-2007, 02:08 PM

NIN[;25157743']Would love to see ZP for UT3.
Allows people to play on servers on the other side of the world with some decent playability.

This was another one of the things that I loved about ZP... I could connect to instagib servers in the North and South American continent and still have a good fun game!

It gave me and many others a much bigger window of opportunity to find a playable server that had 8+ players in it. It was great to be able to frag people with predictable aiming, while pinging 250+ on a 56k modem (in the days before afordable broadband in UK)...

For those of you that were around in the infancy of ZP, I was a regular at "PC Galores" dm instagib server, with an old alias! ;)

rebel7254

12-11-2007, 03:16 PM

The ZP option would be nice to have in UT3. With regard to the constant bickering concerning its inclusion, well, ZP allows players to compete on essentially equal footing. Yes, the potential for hacking is higher, but bot detection mods will do the job. And yes, you could potentially load your connection; it would be extremely noticeable, however, and would simply result in a ban - these days, few people have connections randomly skyrocketing into the hundreds.

Really, it seems as though those arguing against it are afraid of losing their long-time ping advantage. I played through UT2k3 with consistently high pings (120 +); while it's possible to do extremely well with such latency, it is nevertheless an extreme disadvantage. And what do you risk with ZP? Aimbots? Those eventually arise anyway. People loading their connection? Come off it.

It's time to level the playing field.

QFT

In addition to the low pingers, I think those who have spent the last few years mastering the art of leading shots to compensate for varying levels of ping are also afraid of ZP.

ShocKWav3

12-12-2007, 01:09 AM

Reflex said it all!

LordRing

12-12-2007, 05:21 AM

So nobody that can actually make a difference can give us any input on this?

Sketch

12-13-2007, 06:11 PM

The ZP option would be nice to have in UT3. With regard to the constant bickering concerning its inclusion, well, ZP allows players to compete on essentially equal footing. Yes, the potential for hacking is higher, but bot detection mods will do the job. And yes, you could potentially load your connection; it would be extremely noticeable, however, and would simply result in a ban - these days, few people have connections randomly skyrocketing into the hundreds.

Really, it seems as though those arguing against it are afraid of losing their long-time ping advantage. I played through UT2k3 with consistently high pings (120 +); while it's possible to do extremely well with such latency, it is nevertheless an extreme disadvantage. And what do you risk with ZP? Aimbots? Those eventually arise anyway. People loading their connection? Come off it.

It's time to level the playing field.

Not much more can be said that 'Flex hadn't already said.

I also echo other posters in believing that a ZP Mod for IG would promote unity among international IG communities and help teams with members all over the globe play and enjoy IG together without one or more being handed the short end of the stick in terms of Ping.

With enough support in favour of ZP hopefully it will get the attention it deserves and someone will step up and Mod it.

I vote Yay for ZP!

Blink

12-16-2007, 06:19 PM

Can ANYONE with any scripting experience or modding experience please just comment on the feasibility of zeroping or ping compensation? Doesn't matter if you are willing to work on it or not. Thanks.

Taboen

12-16-2007, 06:32 PM

Can ANYONE with any scripting experience or modding experience please just comment on the feasibility of zeroping or ping compensation? Doesn't matter if you are willing to work on it or not. Thanks.

It is possible. I just don't know if it would be buggy as hell like in 2k4. Depends on how Epic made it. Will have a look into it, am not promising anything.

Zealot

12-16-2007, 07:57 PM

2k3 or 4 never had ZP, so dont think thats the problem with ig ut3. imo whats wrong is that you join a server and type " stat net " in console, and it shows a latency / ping of 20ms. then u type " stat engine " and ut3 engine has a input latency of 60-100ms.

this input latency has nothing to do with ping to a server its there as soon as you fire up ut3. normally about 40ms while in the menu screen. then rising to 60-100ms when you join a server.

i know of a way to make it better, ie. so its 20ms while in menu & 30-40ms when i join a server. but i like using my logitech mx510 mouse and cant get on with a razer mouse. playing with a input latency of 30-40ms is so much better, but i find the razer hard to control and feel funny in my hand.

imo whats causing this ( plz correct me if im wrong here ) is the online as soon as you log in, its prolly connecting to gamespy so while in the menu screen in the background you have a connection running all the time 40ms.
then you join a server which shows 20ms + 40ms = input latency of 60ms.

like i said im not sure if this is correct, as what this has to do with my mouse puzzles me ?.

imo this is a bug in the game and epic need to sort it in the next patch.

Taboen

12-16-2007, 08:00 PM

UT2k3/4 did have ZP. It was very buggy and never got popular because of that.

-]Vulcan0[-

12-17-2007, 05:02 AM

can't wait anymore!good luck and do it faster!!!

Blink

12-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Lol @ Vulcano. Taboen, thanks for looking at it at all man. It is definitely appreciated, and hope you can report some good news.

Overflow

12-19-2007, 12:28 PM

Thanks indeed Taboen!

ZP will help me keep pwning ppl like Ness, LordRing and Blink :)

Suxxess

12-19-2007, 05:06 PM

An Instagib weapon with less grafic effects.

I mean the weaponbeam, I don't hit the enemy but the "corona" of the beam hit it.
One red and blue effectless small beam would be enough.

Ah and more small instagib CTF maps. The classic CTF maps are to big.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

12-22-2007, 08:23 AM

I wonder if Grimreaper is still on the scene? He did version 2 of zp...

Reflex

12-27-2007, 05:54 AM

Any news on this front?

Roig

12-27-2007, 10:50 PM

Please, we need ZP, any news? :cool:

Roig

12-30-2007, 02:50 PM

Please, any modder can reply this post, and give some info?

-]Vulcan0[-

12-31-2007, 02:03 PM

seems nobody modder care about zp :( :( :( wtf are you all doing?

Taboen

12-31-2007, 02:40 PM

Vulcan0[-;25205986']seems nobody modder care about zp :( :( :( wtf are you all doing?

Patience is what we need rigth now....

Trafy

01-06-2008, 02:06 PM

Ye i want zp in to join zpictf, without zp is to bad to me and i guess the rest of spanish ppl.

The Chimpy

01-06-2008, 02:19 PM

Why restrict Zeroping to Instagib? I say give all the hitscan weapons the ability to acknowledge the fact that you hit someone with a ping - speaking from personal experience, most of them are rendered almost completely useless when lag times are anywhere above 40ms. I can shoot a person 20 times in a row, the crosshair blinking red and all to verify every hit, and yet somehow none of those shots will register. I'd appreciate it if they just drop dead when I kill them. :(