Flags stay have to be walked back when dropped

[iycgtptyarvg]

I have never really understood why, when you drop a flag, the opponent has to touch the flag to teleport it back to their base. Wouldn't it be a lot more logical (and fun) if they actually had to run it back?

Assuming this option will be missing in UT, could someone create a mutator which does this?

Thanks in advance.

[N0VA]

i have to say i like this idea, but it would make the game extremely less fast paced wouldn't it? maybe this could only work in small CTF maps.

[re8]

i have to say i like this idea, but it would make the game extremely less fast paced wouldn't it? maybe this could only work in small CTF maps.I agree, vCTF-Suspence is way too slow as it is.

But I think this mutator will make xCTF more like a tug-of-war, which will be a nice change on occasion. Plus, it will help when the attacking team has a force of 3+ bringing back the flag, & prevent a lone lucky defender from reseting the flag.

IMHO, I'd make a new gametype for WAR, in which there is a single flag, & the team that holds on to the flag the longest for _x_ minutes wins the game. Should be simple to code, & would be a very fun break from 1 hour WAR maps if the host times the map to like 10-20 minutes.

[iycgtptyarvg]

IMHO, I'd make a new gametype for WAR, in which there is a single flag, & the team that holds on to the flag the longest for _x_ minutes wins the game.
That sounds a little like Domination with 1 moveable DOM point.
And yes, I would REALLY like to see DOM back in UT3. Mind you, I mean the UT99 DOM, not the rubbish Double Domination from 2k3/2k4.

[Caravaggio]

The thing is it'd have to be on a map where it couldn't get stuck. A put you can't get out of, lava fields, etc.

The flag domination thing has been done before hasn't it? I think that's a neat idea, though you'd need some kind of compass to tell you where the other guys have hidden the flag so that they don't just have one guy hiding it in some small corner the whole time...

[Felerian01]

First of all the "Bring back the Flag" thing allready has been done in the past and gives some new aspects to the game. (Good and bad) I hope somebody will make as it is fun :)

Second thing, the "Flag-DOM" sound really cool and i would be looking forward to try it out. And yes, all players (enemy and friend) should have a minimap where they see where the flag is then. Else it would end in a camp game.

[R.Flagg]

I'm glad to see this thread, because we at Chaos share the same view. Chaos CTF (http://chaotic.beyondunreal.com/docs/ctf_ut2004.php) works that way (and Chaos Hyper CTF also), and we plan on bringing it to UT3 as well.

We have worked hard on the details, like the kind of stuff that was mentioned here (kill zones, flags getting stuck, etc), and we hope to make it even more polished in UT3. We tweak the scores, the announcer, the hud, whatever it takes to make it complete. We even went so far as to write specific code for certain non-Chaos maps, just so we would work on popular quality custom (and stock) maps.

There are of course other features to Chaos and Chaos CTF, but I won't push it all right now. Just wanted to let you know that the Chaos team is going to work on this, and we plan on doing it up right.

We would love it if you gave our version a shot when it comes.

[Sjosz]

No it should not.

[traumatism]

be a nice idea but one thing that would be clever also would be that the person carrying their own flag cannot carry the enemy flag at the same time. and if they try, they score a point for the enemy team :D

[iycgtptyarvg]

About the flag being stuck. AFAIK this is already built-in, because the flag will reset if no one has hold of it for a certain amount of time (I believe something like 20 seconds).
On the other hand, maybe it was Bombing Run where I saw this behaviour.

@R.Flagg
Maybe I'm mistaking your Chaos mutator, but would it be possible to only have the 'walk the flag back' option? I don't necessarily want to change anything else about CTF (also, the more you change, the bigger the chance it will conflict with another mutator).

[hawkwind]

the "return the flag" option was standard in CTF4. it is quite fun, and would be great as a game option out of the box. if not, i'm sure it will be done as a mutator very soon.

[re8]

@R.Flagg
Maybe I'm mistaking your Chaos mutator, but would it be possible to only have the 'walk the flag back' option? I don't necessarily want to change anything else about CTF (also, the more you change, the bigger the chance it will conflict with another mutator).I'd like to see that also; I hate downloading huge mods while trying to get on a server, & having the flag bit split off would be awesome.

[R.Flagg]

About the flag being stuck. AFAIK this is already built-in, because the flag will reset if no one has hold of it for a certain amount of time (I believe something like 20 seconds).
On the other hand, maybe it was Bombing Run where I saw this behaviour.

Flags do reset in CTF/VCTF after a preset period of time. However, that is another detail we tweaked in Chaos CTF. We made it so the flags stay on the ground much longer before being auto-returned. After all, the idea is to have to work to return your flag, not just wait out the timer. (and combined with our hud tweaks, the flags do not remain 'lost'. radar dots point to flags, not bases)


Maybe I'm mistaking your Chaos mutator, but would it be possible to only have the 'walk the flag back' option? I don't necessarily want to change anything else about CTF (also, the more you change, the bigger the chance it will conflict with another mutator).

As a rule, we do not release each and every weapon/item/feature we create as individual downloads. We simply do not believe that is in the best interest of the mod. However, I can quote myself from one of our recent recruitment news posts...

"Chaos for UT2004 was well received, but perhaps one of the most common comments we heard was about the large size of the mod. Therefore, we are going to be looking into how we can possibly split the mod into sections of some sort for UT3. Perhaps "mutator", "game types", "melee", ... or something along those lines. Exact details of this will be worked out as the mod progresses, and we see what we have to work with. The goal of course is that if some players are only interested in one or two sections, they can get just the parts they want."

What is most likely, is that we will release a package which includes this type of CTF, but also includes other features. And if you look at the trend we've taken lately, and some of our menus, you'll see that just about every weapon/vehicle/feature can be turned on or off, depending on your own personal preferences.

So maybe you can turn off those things you don't like, and trim it down to just this part. But I would humbly request that you at least give a shot to whatever other features we bring to CTF/VCTF. There's always a chance you'll like those too. Judging by some similarities to things that later show up in Unreal games, I'd say we have a decent track record of picking cool features. :D

And I can promise you that we have always worked very hard to be as compatible as is possible with everything out there.


I'd like to see that also; I hate downloading huge mods while trying to get on a server, & having the flag bit split off would be awesome.

My best response is that if you like the sound of a mod, and want to try it, you only have to download it once (well, until another update is out, usually months later). And it's easier to do so before you join a server. Given the typical download speeds most of us have these days, it's really not such a big deal. Especially considering it's free additions to your game. A few minutes seems a small price to pay. But as I mentioned, we're still keeping size in mind anyway.

The only other point I would mention, is that sometimes a slightly larger file size, or perhaps even slightly longer wait time for release... can get you a better quality experience that you'll be more happy with over a longer haul.

Yes, that's mod pimpage, and I make no apologies. :D

Thanks!

[iycgtptyarvg]

@R.Flagg
Download size doesn't matter to me personally. If it takes 100MB to have this feature, I will download it in a heartbeat. It's good to know the features you put in are optional. In that case I'd like as many features as possible (saves me from needing n mutators which might be incompatible).

I eagerly await your mutator/mod. Thanks a lot for the effort, it's most appreciated!