So.. I'm a newbie for creating maps in 3d games.. I have some Q's.

[roper]

I'm anxiously awaiting the UE3 that ships with UT3.. I'm a long time first person shooter player (played competitive for a stint).. I'm interested in making a map with the editor once it comes out but it seems like if you don't have a degree in 3d, or understand 3dsmax/maya/etc. it's going to be difficult or at least tough to make a good level?

I mean I keep hearing about normal maps, environment maps, baking, shaders, etc. etc. I mean I made some maps for doom2 way back in the day, all this stuff is foreign to me... Am I even going to have a chance to get started when the editor comes out or do I need to start training in 3dsmax/maya? :)

Thanks.

[N0VA]

UnrealED does have some things any 3d program will have, you can try getting your hands on UT2004 or any other version of a unreal game that probably has unrealed and try using it, the new version of unrealED will still have the same basics and usage so old tutorials will hopefully still be of use too so looking into those could help you too.

[Simeon]

I don't have 3D modelling experience (except an orange tutorial in 3D Max :p) but you can always use the stock assets that come with the game (like static meshes, textures, et cetera). That's how I made my two maps for UT2004.

All those normal maps / environment maps are maps that can be applied to textures to give them a more 3D look instead of a flat texture. The existing textures will have these maps so you can still use those textures and it'll look good too. If you want to add your own textures then I'm sure you can find some tutorial to create those normal maps as well.

The game has enough 3D objects of its own that can be used to create a map. These assets should also be better organized than in previous games (that's what I've heard at least) so you should be able to find the objects that you need.

[DGUnreal]

Epic will be making UDN3 public when the game is released, but expect a significantly higher learning curve than UT2004. UE3 is substantially more difficult to map with overall, if you are attempting to get Epic UT3 quality.

[Simeon]

Various other people have said that too.. so I'll see.

My DM map looks UT99-like so I guess the quality is 'one engine behind' ...perhaps I should aim for UT2004 quality in my UT3 map(s) :p

[roper]

Epic will be making UDN3 public when the game is released, but expect a significantly higher learning curve than UT2004. UE3 is substantially more difficult to map with overall, if you are attempting to get Epic UT3 quality.

Hmmm.. Well, I certainly don't intend on being able to make maps of "epic UT3 quality" :) however.. I mean, if I were to say use packed in assets and whatnot to build more simple levels.. Would there still be a higher learning curve?

[Oblivionbringa]

If your only level editing experience was doom 2, and you avoid learning how to make custom content, your learning curve will still be very high.

[DGUnreal]

Hmmm.. Well, I certainly don't intend on being able to make maps of "epic UT3 quality" :) however.. I mean, if I were to say use packed in assets and whatnot to build more simple levels.. Would there still be a higher learning curve?

Even if you are using all stock assets, there is a lot to learn over UT2004.
Obtaining all of the next-gen eye-candy does come with a price, and mapping is not as simple as it was on older games.

[Felerian01]

come on.. im getting depressed... i was thinking about to make a map or two... but the way you talk its a science and i´ll never make a map :(

[DGUnreal]

i was thinking about to make a map or two... but the way you talk its a science and i´ll never make a map :(

Wait until UT3 ships and UDN3 opens. Those community mappers who are serious about the work and want to spend the time to learn how to create maps will still do it, regardless of how much they need to learn or how long it takes to learn it.

Game design is becoming more of a science, or more specifically, requiring more education/knowledge. That is one reason why we are seeing more universities offering it as a class. As the complexity of the engines increase, the information required to properly utilize them increases.
Most studios have split the role of the Level Designer into multiple sections, dividing up the tasks to multiple people, simply because it has become so much work and so much to learn for just one person.

UT2004 was more forgiving in design, where even incorrect assets usually still worked. In UT2004 you could usually just create a bunch of CSG cubes, insert some stock StaticMeshes, add some lights and playerstarts and pathnodes and hit Build. You may or may not have much success doing this in UT3, it depends on whether you want to make maps that still look like UT2004.

With next-gen games you are dealing with more complex scenes with greater detail, usually pushing 10x as many polys as UT2004. You have to be concerned about asset footprints, lightmap footprints, proper map optimization for the increased asset count, etc.
And if you want to add any custom content, that is even more to learn. Do a search on Google for next-gen modeling and normal mapping, and you will see how much more is involved.

[Felerian01]

So in other words... if i haven´t been doing any maps, modeling, what so ever.. im doomed because its too much to learn now?

i just took a look at your page with the maps you made...

i allmost started to cry... they are beautiful... teach me master! :P

No, honestly, very nice ideas!

[DGUnreal]

So in other words... if i haven´t been doing any maps, modeling, what so ever.. im doomed because its too much to learn now?

i just took a look at your page with the maps you made...

i allmost started to cry... they are beautiful... teach me master! :P

No, honestly, very nice ideas!

No, you are not doomed. :)

People with UT2004 mapping experience will be able to use probably 25% to 50% of what they already know, depending on their style of mapping and what they are wanting to accomplish.

If you have no previous mapping experience at all on any Unreal Engine game, then you will have a lot to learn, but it is possible to do for anyone who has the drive to learn it. The Unreal Engine games are still probably one of the easiest to create for, because the Unreal Editor is very user-friendly and powerful.
There will be a new Mastering Unreal book and plenty of video tutorials for UT3 after it is released. Plus there are already some websites with online tutorials. You can already read some UE3/UT3 tutorials on sites such as Hourences (http://www.hourences.com), or the RoboBlitz Wiki (http://www.roboblitz.com/RoboBlitzEditorWiki/index.php/Main_Page). These will give you an idea of what to expect.

The Beyond Unreal forums are probably more popular among the mapping community, so you can get more help to questions on map development over there.

The only points that I am trying to make with my posts are that creating next-gen maps is more work now due to the increase in detailing (gamers want better graphics and more detailed maps and that takes more time and knowledge), and the addition of more features and functions in the game editor to learn.

On the BU forums, most mappers have stated that it takes them about a year to get good at UT2004 mapping.

Thanks. Hopefully my UT3 maps will be even better than those I have already released for previous games.

[Hawkstra]

Thanks DGUnreal, you helped me to. :D

I have not much experience, more than a year experience in maya 3d.. But I hope to get good at the unreal engine.