How To Convert Ut2004 Map To Ut3

[wyliecoyote321]

I want my unreal 1 maping freinds Buster & Sinji to convert a ut2004 custom map called DM-ZAHLTAG_CITY to ut3, will it be posible and how.
Here is a demonstration of game play on *MAG* server with dm-zahltag_city.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=562rj-IsAkI

[Wormbo]

Considering the difference in scale and movement options, a straight conversion is likely to suck bigtime.

[MysTikal]

Don't forget all the graphical upgrades.

[Doc Shock]

And then there's the fact that maps-creation is now additive instead of substractive. So I guess it's a very safe bet that there'll be no way to port anything over from UT2k4 and everything has to be (re-)made from scratch.

[!ut2k7!]

Does enyone know what tha some is called?

[DeathBooger]

You're better off starting from scratch. You could probably reuse the textures, but you'd have to create a material in UE3 for each texture, so you might as well start over there as well with higher resolution textures.

[Jagnot]

And then there's the fact that maps-creation is now additive instead of substractive.



Oooh! This is gonna be awesome!

[StalwartUK]

Adding in a huge block before importing should fix that.

[DGUnreal]

I didn't look at the video, however...
UE3 supports starting a map as either an additive or subtractive world.
However, no Skybox, no Zones, differences in Materials, and as I have mentioned elsewhere the scale between my UE3 copy demo of Deck and UT2004 is 85%, so I probably wouldn't recommend just importing over the brushes and scaling as everything will be off-grid and depending on the cleanliness of the original brush layout it could result in BSP errors (FYI: the UE3 CSG Brush system is internally the same as UT2004, essentially the interface in UE3 UEd has a few new enhanced CSG editing features is all).
I would recommend most people look at re-creating a map, simply open the original in UEd3 and compare brush layouts.

Also, if the original UT2004 map is not your own, and you plan on creating a duplicate version of it for UT3, I would strongly recommend getting the original authors permission. Most mappers would otherwise probably be upset.

[theteck]

and all original mapper for ut2004 its welcome for this new UT

we run all your good maps np

:)

[Jagnot]

and all original mapper for ut2004 its welcome for this new UT

we run all your good maps np

:)

..What? I don't understand what you said.:confused:

[SuperDre]

I guess it's the same type of 'problems' as converting an UT99 map to UT2004... Just copy and paste ;) and then start fixing/adding the stuff..

[Sjosz]

I guess it's the same type of 'problems' as converting an UT99 map to UT2004... Just copy and paste ;) and then start fixing/adding the stuff..

Guess again. BSP setup is not compatible between versions this time. If you were really adamant about porting a level directly, the best possible way to do the BSP is by exporting it as an OBJ, fix it in Max and reimport it as a base shell in UT3 to build the new BSP/world geometry of.
Other than that, you're better off doing things from scratch, especially since the scale difference between UT3 and UT2004 is substantial enough to require rescaling of the level.

[SuperDre]

Other than that, you're better off doing things from scratch, especially since the scale difference between UT3 and UT2004 is substantial enough to require rescaling of the level.
That was also the case with UT99 and UT2004..

[DGUnreal]

You can do a .t3d conversion to bring the BSP (CSG) brushes across, but I wouldn't recommend it, and it is more work than simply redoing the map from scratch.

[evilmrfrank]

That was also the case with UT99 and UT2004..

Except UT-UT2k4 didn't require you to do anything more than copy and paste the bsp and replace the textures :)

[martinblank]

How you know that you can't do this with UT3? In UED4 you have the option of working in additive or subtractive mode.

[karmatized]

heres a way that most people will have to do it, Open both editors for both versions

manually recreate the bruch to match the shapes you want to copy. Make note of the brush's size in numbers then goto the new editor and make that shape based on those numbers. Then alein it to grid as the old one was and create it

[DGUnreal]

Can't do what?
Create UT1/UT2 remakes or copy/paste brushes?

Remakes can be done, but with limitations.
Copy/Paste or Import of t3d from UE2.5 to UE3 doesn't work without editing the t3d to UE3 format.

Additive/Subtractive isn't the issue.
UE3 has no Skybox, Zones, and other things also work differently.
I've used UE3 for over a year now doing level design (that's how I know :) ).

[Caravaggio]

...no Zones...
So there's no "location" to list players at in the hud? Or is it just handled differently...
edt:while I'm at it, I'm sorry if this is posted elswhere, but if you've seen the editor can you say if the unit measurements are about the same for characters and such? Still in US standard instead of metric 10x10?

[DGUnreal]

So there's no "location" to list players at in the hud? Or is it just handled differently...

can you say if the unit measurements are about the same for characters and such?


Volume.LocationName and Volume.LocationPriority, same as UT2004.

I posted it elsewhere a while ago and am going by memory, Malcolm is just under 6 feet tall (5'10"??), 92 or 94 UUs or something around there...

The editor/engine "Unreal Units" is the same for the Unreal Tournament games (UT2, UT3), which is 1 Unit = 2cm, or approximately 16 UUs = 1 foot (16 UUs * 2cm = 32cm, so at 2.54 cm = 1 inch we get 12.5984 inches).
I haven't played UT3 yet, but from what I've seen the map scale is smaller than UT2 (UT200x).

[evilmrfrank]

Actually UT2k4 didn't use volumes for location names but used zone infos to do that. UT3 I believe does use volumes now. You can probably use the same volume for location names as you would for setting up the post processing effects. There is no way of telling with the version of UE3 I have as something like location name would be a UT specific option(I may be wrong) I would open the UT3 editor up myself but I can't seem to get it working....

[DGUnreal]

Actually UT2k4 didn't use volumes for location names but used zone infos to do that.

Trust me... :p
Would I lie to you? ;)

How would you put multiple ZoneInfos on a terrain-based outdoor ONS or VCTF within that same one outdoor zone? You can't.
For indoor "zoned" CSG maps you could use a ZoneInfo in each zone if you preferred that over Volumes, but with only 64 Zones, if you run out, you still have to use Volumes and Volume.LocationName to do it when splitting a single zone into multiple Locations using Volumes within that zone.

For UT2004 Location Names are with Volumes, (or alternately when able, with ZoneInfos in a single zone, but that wasn't the question).
See UDN Volumes (http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/VolumesTutorial.html) and UnrealWiki (http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Volume).

[evilmrfrank]

I didnt say you couldn't do it with volumes I just said its not done with volumes :P I'm not sure if any of Epics maps even use the volumes for location purposes do they? Not even in the ONS maps. I did not know about the 64 zone limit :) Let me just say if anyone is using more than 64 zones in their map they either don't know what they are doing or they are just crazy :P

[Sjosz]

I didnt say you couldn't do it with volumes I just said its not done with volumes :P I'm not sure if any of Epics maps even use the volumes for location purposes do they? Not even in the ONS maps. I did not know about the 64 zone limit :) Let me just say if anyone is using more than 64 zones in their map they either don't know what they are doing or they are just crazy :P

DG is correct. The fact that Epic hasn't used them doesn't mean it isn't done with volumes. Since zoning can't be done effectively with huge outdoor maps the only method of making locations into named ones is by means of volumes.

[DGUnreal]

I just said its not done with volumes :P I'm not sure if any of Epics maps even use the volumes for location purposes do they?

I did not know about the 64 zone limit :) Let me just say if anyone is using more than 64 zones in their map they either don't know what they are doing or they are just crazy :P


But it is done with Volumes. :)
Open DM-Antalus or ONS-Dawn or any other stock UT2004 "outdoor" map and Volumes are used for the Location Names. Using a Volume is the only way to do this within a single Zone. And an outdoor map normally has a single zone for the outside terrain playfield area. You would not place a bunch of enormous ZonePortals that slice across the entire main world subtraction in order to attempt to divide the map up into zones just for Location Naming. This would have the side-effect of causing additional unnecessary view tests since many of the massive ZonePortals would always be in the frustum.

I agree that hitting more than 64 Zones is rare on most maps, but it has been done, and the unfortunate side-effect is that the editor start combining zones back together to keep the count at 64, and you have no control over which ones it combines, so you have to start removing ZonePortals.
The uses for Volumes in "indoor" maps for Location Names is just as valid as outdoor maps. For example if you have a very large room, you should not necessarily place a massive ZonePortal down the middle of it just to split it into two zones to be able to place two ZoneInfos just for Location Names. In this case you may be better off placing two Volumes in the room for this function instead.

[evilmrfrank]

Hm wasn't aware Epic used it in their UT2k4 maps. Guess I learn something new every day :)

[DGUnreal]

Yes, we're all here to learn... :)

I've been going through UE3 more indepth recently and reading up more on UDN3 regarding the internal workings (I'm working for a new game studio on their design flow/pipeline setup)... and I'm struggling with all of the new techniques and intricacies of the engine -- and I don't class myself as a newbie.
I can forsee the majority of mappers are going to have problems grasping many things in the new engine. If anyone thought things like staticmesh per-vertex lighting and staticmesh Type-1 collision were confusing, just wait for UT3... :)
I expect to see a lot of CSG-only maps since that is still reasonably close to UT2004. But I'm sure a lot of mappers who try using staticmeshes are going to run into issues figuring out all of the properties with regards to lighting, optimizing, etc.

November:

- gamer runs UT3 for the first time: "OWNZ!" :eek:
- mapper runs UEd for the first time: "WTF??" :confused:

[[PSI]tmdevildogs]

I think you could convert it , i myself have converted many maps from Ut99 to UT 2004

[Bret Hart]

Remakes can be done, but with limitations.
Copy/Paste or Import of t3d from UE2.5 to UE3 doesn't work without editing the t3d to UE3 format.


Excuse me but how do you edit the t3d file to UE3 format?

[DGUnreal]

T3d is Epic's 3d text format, sort of like DXF or STL.
You would have to manually edit the t3d and fix up the differences in the actor syntax, or write a utility to do the conversion.
The file format is not very difficult. The question is whether it is worth a person's time to do it manually or write a utility. In my opinion, no. Easiest just to re-create any map from scratch, that gives the ability to fix any issues or design flaws with the original.

[Bret Hart]

well I think solidsnake wrote such a converter but I dont think he'd wanna share it :|

[Bret Hart]

This is great, I am still stuck with my dilemma

[DGUnreal]

Why? What is your dilemma?
UT3 maps should be re-created from scratch if you are wanting to re-do an existing UT2004 map. This is because of differences in how the engine works, differences in map scale, differences in supported CSG functionality, etc.
Even if you converted a set of brushes from a UE2.5 map, they will have to be totally scaled and changed to work in UE3.