Boosting in UT3 (LGI Focus)

[]V[Glim]

To avoid confusion:
LGI = Low Gravity Instagib
Instagib = The red version of the shock rifle from GOTY
Boosting = Propelling a teammate(preferably already airborne) with your shots. Very useful in CTF.

Do you think that UT3 Should have boosting in LGI (Low Grav Instagib)?

I chose yes. This is really a passionate issue on my part, as I come from GOTY land where LGI had boosting and it was an integral and heavily skill-based part of the game.

In my opinion, one of the things that very much ruined the UT2k3 experience, other than large character models with relatively slow movement speeds, was the lack of boosting in LGI. This removed a massive dynamic in LGI that helped set both UT and the LGI experience apart from any other shooter.

Then, in UT2k4, the option for boosting was provided... but the problem was that many of the clans and such that had formed in 2k3 were stuck in the non-boosting rut and never gave it a chance... so many of the 2k4 "LGI" servers at the time still had boosting disabled... thereby gimping 2kX LGI from ever coming even remotely close to what the original was.

Anyhow, that's my view. I personally don't even want an option to turn boosting off... it's just not LGI... or even UT... without boosting...

[Kronos]

Boost dodging? Adrenaline boosting? Instagib getting shot in the back boosting?

Which one are u refering to.
Sorry for not knowing what LGI may stand for, but what exactly does LGI stand for.

[Magwa]

LGI you mean Lightning gun Insta? no such thing in UT3 cause there will be no lightning gun... but i am sure he is referring to boosting in Insta... well pretty sure, ok i am confused what do you mean .. :)

[Kronos]

LinkGun Insta, hahahah
jk

[]V[Glim]

LGI = Low Grav Instagib... originating with the red shock rifle from UT99.

Boosting is used on a server with team damage off. You fire on a teammate, preferably when they're already airborne, to propel them across the map with your shots. It's very useful in CTF maps especially.

[Kronos]

Yes I wouldnt mind seeing this in UT3.

[Boksha]

I don't know a lot about instagib, but I know a lot of people complained about this boosting thing being gone in UT2k3 and UT2k4. Enough at least for Epic to put it back in in UT2k4 as a configuration option of the mutator.
Maybe in UT3 that option should be on by default?

[musilowski]

I'd say make it an option. And yes, clientside option that is.

[Wail of Suicide]

I think it should at least be an option (and, in my opinion, it should be turned on by default). It is kind of pathetic to see this deadly streak of red-hot energy blast out from your rifle ... only to have the teammate who stepped in your way soak it up as though he received a push from a slight breeze.

In general I think the default should be that teamdamage scaling does not simultaneously scale momentum from teammates weapons, although a checkbox or a slider could be implemented if necessary.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

V[Glim;24825427']...
In my opinion, one of the things that very much ruined the UT2k3 experience, other than large character models with relatively slow movement speeds...

Uh, are we talking about the same 2k3?

[Magwa]

ok i got it low grav insta DoH!

[Mort_Q]

I prefer LGS myself... but sure... I don't mind boosting if it's optional. I think it'd be more fun without the TL (or x-loc, just 'cause I can)... as it means more teamwork.

[Kronos]

How about NGI (No gravity instagib), just people flying around in midair bouncing off walls.

JK

[{|xDi|}DaMaGE!]

i dont care much for teamboosting. its self boosting that ownz! UTGOTY days i would boost with the ripper like no tommorow, once off the floor, then again of the walls. A big yes for self boosting. but teamboosting was always cheesy to me.

[MonsOlympus]

Only if your holding shieldgun altfire :D

Personally, friendly fire in instagib pwns. You think you can aim till your getting -1 for killing your team mates rofl

[UnSkilled]

It should be an option. I play ICTF NormalGravity but for the guys who love to play low gravity then it should be an option because it's not everybady who like it.

[Ickle]

How about NGI (No gravity instagib), just people flying around in midair bouncing off walls.

JK

NGI is actually normal gravity insta. Us insta dudes have it all sorted out.

[Devastator]

Hehe, I'll play either way(boost or no boost) I'm D anyway lol.

[JaFO]

...
It is kind of pathetic to see this deadly streak of red-hot energy blast out from your rifle ... only to have the teammate who stepped in your way soak it up as though he received a push from a slight breeze...
Indeed ... it's bad enough that one needs to disable team-damage (on public servers or if there's bots involved) in a game that's supposed to be about bloody lethal combat, but turning a lethal weapon into something that actually 'helps' in jumping ? (*)
That I disagree with completely, especially in a gamestyle called *insta-gib* ...

Besides ... UT has always featured a 'weapon' of sorts that was specially made for this kind of stuff. Why not use that one instead ?

Making it into a configurable option would make the game harder to understand for newbies as well, but I guess that is something nobody cares about these days.

(*) I'd use the same argument against the 'healing'- & 'linking'-feature of the Linkgun ...

[]V[Glim]

Indeed ... it's bad enough that one needs to disable team-damage (on public servers or if there's bots involved) in a game that's supposed to be about bloody lethal combat, but turning a lethal weapon into something that actually 'helps' in jumping ? (*)
That I disagree with completely, especially in a gamestyle called *insta-gib* ...

Besides ... UT has always featured a 'weapon' of sorts that was specially made for this kind of stuff. Why not use that one instead ?

Making it into a configurable option would make the game harder to understand for newbies as well, but I guess that is something nobody cares about these days.

(*) I'd use the same argument against the 'healing'- & 'linking'-feature of the Linkgun ...

This thread is not about disabling or enabling team damage. Like I said, this is catered to "LGI"... which is something best experienced in order to gain applicable understanding of boosting as a concept. I would suggest to anyone curious about the concept to fire up GOTY and look for LGI servers... experience is the best teacher.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

100% optional, why anything else... (on the users end, in UT 99' you could choose to turn on or off as the player individually)

[Magwa]

If the game finds it's self back to it's roots then i am all for team boosting UT99 low grav insta NO trans,and of course no multi dodge 2k4 insta CTF low grav trans, multidodge,glowing bright skins aderinaline the game has lost it's way, i love low grav insta and i love normal grav insta but keep all the kiddy mutators out please lets play hardcore

[Sigmadnb]

I definitely think it should be in!

[Mort_Q]

If the game finds it's self back to it's roots then i am all for team boosting UT99 low grav insta NO trans,and of course no multi dodge 2k4 insta CTF low grav trans, multidodge,glowing bright skins aderinaline the game has lost it's way, i love low grav insta and i love normal grav insta but keep all the kiddy mutators out please lets play hardcore

Sometimes it's fun to play some low grav no trans vampire sniper arena CTF.

I need a little novelty to do CTF... I just don't find it engaging otherwise.

I wish I could get into it... everyone else seems to enjoy it. :confused:

[TWD]

I really don't care what goes on with the instagib gametypes. I personally find the mutators irritating as it stunts community growth to some extent. Paying extra special attention to any particular combination of mutators is asking for trouble. Which makes me question how do you impliment such a thing? You could just have it be an option with the instagib mutator. Or would this be an option for almost any mutator gametype etc (I would not like this at all).

[Magwa]

Sometimes it's fun to play some low grav no trans vampire sniper arena CTF.

I need a little novelty to do CTF... I just don't find it engaging otherwise.

I wish I could get into it... everyone else seems to enjoy it. :confused:

two 5 man teams two great flag runners one great dmer in the middle and two great defenders man it don't get any better than that tied 0 to 0 after 45 min you are sweating bullets ...i love that about great insta CTF matches but when a guy can snatch the flag jump up and wall dodge all the way accross a map or hit speed it is just plain cheap and no fun...


<><>TWD please explain what you do Like ..<><>
I really don't care what goes on with the instagib gametypes. I personally find the mutators irritating as it stunts community growth to some extent. Paying extra special attention to any particular combination of mutators is asking for trouble. Which makes me question how do you impliment such a thing? You could just have it be an option with the instagib mutator. Or would this be an option for almost any mutator gametype etc (I would not like this at all).

[ne_skaju]

Yes, though never like any kind of instagibs / arenas

[Taleweaver]

I know what boosting is, but don't care about it, or instaGib for that matter(no offense here: have all the fun you want, the way you want it :) ). I just voted "what's boosting?" because it came closest to my own opinion.

[MonsOlympus]

Well there is always the little thing of if the instagib mutator could adjust its options per gametype, I guess leaving boosting on or off in DM wont make a difference but it might confuse people just having an option there that does nothing. Then again there could be a TeamInstaMut which shows up in team gametypes where InstaMut shows up in non team gametypes. Really theres no reason not to have it optional, think about the gravity and jumping adjustments then wonder if there will be lowgrav insta boosting at all. Personally I think insta with team kills on is the best way to play in a team gametype and without the shieldgun there isnt really a way to stop team mates fragging each other.

[EntropicLqd]

I voted for optional, but I actually mostly agree with Mons.

Having team damage on in an instagib match makes things that little bit harder than, "Oooh it's moving I'll shoot it".

[Hedge-o-Matic]

This sounds sort of like a BR variant, with a living ball! But aren't teh boosted team mates just gib-bait for opposing IG shots? How can this feature be a good thing?

I don't have an opinion, I'm just wondering. It sounds sort of cool, but I can't see how players would ever land in one piece.

[Mort_Q]

Each hit changes the velocity... so although they're moving in a relatively straight line, they're not necessarily sitting ducks.

[JaFO]

V[Glim;24825766']This thread is not about disabling or enabling team damage. Like I said, this is catered to "LGI"... which is something best experienced in order to gain applicable understanding of boosting as a concept. ...
Understanding ought to come from both sides ... not just yours.
I was trying to explain *why* boosting should be disabled (IMHO of course)

The thing is that the concept of 'boosting' is so wrong *because* it interferes with the concept that 'friendly fire' is Bad (with a capital B).

Therefore I simply can not consider this a 'fun' variant and why I think it should not be used regardless of what gametype it is used.

It is things like this (friendly fire vs boosting) that make it harder for a newbie to understand what is going on and why some things are 'good' when what is 'good' changes from gametype to gametype and from server to server. It also makes it needlessly difficult to learn more than a few gametypes as a near instinctive response has to be reversed into its polar opposite at the flick of a switch (and that simply is impossible for the average person).

If the game as a whole changes the rules on a fundamental level (as is in this example) then one really ought to wonder why such a feature should be added at all.

[Magwa]

cause it is fun and in certain instances it is a good tool take for example playing on CTF face in 2k4 early days Helios shows up and starts trying out his newest cheat,everyone just starts boosting him out over the edge of the cliff after about 5 min.s of this he left ..boosting is Fun...if for no other good reason it should be a aoption for haveing fun..

[Mort_Q]

How about... FF on, Instagib Rifle primary is lethal, and secondary is boosting... regardless of team?

[]V[Glim]

Boosting adds a level of complexity, fun, and teamwork to the game that others don't have. Complexity is not a bad thing, especially when it makes the game more of a challenge by adding new and creative dynamics that actually ADD functionality to team play. The concept that a game type is conceptually wrong because a "newbie" might not understand what's going on within 2 minutes of entering a server doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

It's like saying "Let's make all game modes as simple and unoriginal as possible so that newbies won't get turned off." Count me out of a game that follows that policy.

I feel it necessary to point out that we're talking about an established game type that has been around since UT99 Beta and to this day has a very strong following.

On top of that, turning on friendly fire in LGI would make it unplayable...

So, the overall conclusion of this post is that a lack of complexity is Bad... with a capital B...

[N6CreepyD]

remember, boosting isn't limited to instagib rifles. or lowg. its not a special mutator or anything, its coded right into the weapons, and i doubt its gonna disappear anytime soon.

[Mort_Q]

remember, boosting isn't limited to instagib rifles. or lowg. its not a special mutator or anything, its coded right into the weapons, and i doubt its gonna disappear anytime soon.

Isn't it an option in the game setup? Either way, it works better in low gravity.

[Wail of Suicide]

Understanding ought to come from both sides ... not just yours.
I was trying to explain *why* boosting should be disabled (IMHO of course)

The thing is that the concept of 'boosting' is so wrong *because* it interferes with the concept that 'friendly fire' is Bad (with a capital B).

Therefore I simply can not consider this a 'fun' variant and why I think it should not be used regardless of what gametype it is used.

It is things like this (friendly fire vs boosting) that make it harder for a newbie to understand what is going on and why some things are 'good' when what is 'good' changes from gametype to gametype and from server to server. It also makes it needlessly difficult to learn more than a few gametypes as a near instinctive response has to be reversed into its polar opposite at the flick of a switch (and that simply is impossible for the average person).

If the game as a whole changes the rules on a fundamental level (as is in this example) then one really ought to wonder why such a feature should be added at all.

Not sure I agree. I think it's probably more confusing for a new player to see his shots that instantly kill the enemy team do nothing to his own teammates. When you can see a teammate get thrown around by your own weaponfire you realize that running around with your firebutton held down might not be a good idea, as it can screw up your teammates. Learning that the same effect can also be used intentionally, but only with good skill and teamwork, is a natural progression.

[Nitrous]

i guess bosting could be with on off cuz was a really fast option to get aout with flag.. =)

[Boksha]

remember, boosting isn't limited to instagib rifles. or lowg. its not a special mutator or anything, its coded right into the weapons, and i doubt its gonna disappear anytime soon. Try it before you post... UT2k3 put a very strict limit on the maximum speed that can be acquired by hitting a teammate, essentially disabling teammate boosting of any kind completely.
This was the reason in UT2k4 there WAS an explicit option to allow boosting that was a part of the instagib mutator (and didn't work for any other weapons, obviously)
Heck, the whole velocity limiting thing was even applied to yourself in Assault. You can't even shieldjump there!

[MonsOlympus]

You just gotta be able to kill your own flag carrier 2 seconds from the flag cap and the win then switch teams really quickly rofl

Turbo super berserk instagib FTW, Light speed too slow? We have to go right to.... Ludicrous speed! :D

[Phopojijo]

You just gotta be able to kill your own flag carrier 2 seconds from the flag cap and the win then switch teams really quickly rofl

Turbo super berserk instagib FTW, Light speed too slow? We have to go right to.... Ludicrous speed! :DIts Liandri-1 sir, he's gone plaid! o.o;

[McFly2000]

I'd say make it an option. And yes, clientside option that is.



That's not really possible.
Only server side would be.

[Ultron]

I don't want to see this feature even as an option. I'd like to eliminate such quirks from Unreal gameplay if possible. It just feels cheap using them. :)

[Boksha]

I don't want to see this feature even as an option. I'd like to eliminate such quirks from Unreal gameplay if possible. It just feels cheap using them. :) I'd say it's cheap if it didn't require team effort and good timing, plus lowers the defense of both the person being boosted as the person that's firing his teammate.
Removing quirks that only unbalance or otherwise hurt the game without adding anything (like boostdodging), OK, but removing all quirks just because they're quirky seems boring.
It may be an OK idea to change the colour of the beam if you hit a teammate with FF off though, kind of like with the linkgun sec. That would make it more obvious to new players what's happening, and make it feel more like an intended feature (which it would be considering it was removed in UT2k3 and put back in explicitly in UT2k4 just for instagib)

[]V[Glim]

I don't want to see this feature even as an option. I'd like to eliminate such quirks from Unreal gameplay if possible. It just feels cheap using them. :)

In my opinion, cheapness is better defined as such:


Frag fest maps in CTF
Maps with a lack of terrain/obstacles which need to be competently navigated around/through/over
Maps with exclusive, high-traffic bottlenecks which allow defenders to sit, run back and forth on a small patch of ground, and just shoot at people coming through
Frag fest maps in CTF
Spawn Killing
Frag fest maps in CTF
The mindset that anyone should be able to see and shoot the flag runner from the moment they spawn no matter where the flag runner is on the map


My definition of the opposite of "cheap":


Highly skill-based elements, such as boosting, that add a unique, team oriented dynamic to an already good game
Maps that require skill in all primary skills such as terrain negotiation, strategy, aim, defensive tactics, offensive tactics, and floating tactics
Movement oriented gameplay, rather than shoot-the-big-slow-target oriented gameplay


The way I see it, there are a whole lot of shooters out there... if someone is looking for the same old stuff, why not play one of them? They're already out there!

[Ultron]

I just see propelling a teammate with gunfire from a weapon as cheap. Skill or just plain luck, I think it's dumb. Same thing as with loading up 6 rockets or a Redeemer and launching a teammate across the map. I know I sound like a bird, but that's just cheap cheap cheap. :p

[4No1AfR8]

I totally agree with Ultron.
You shoot to kill :D , even if it is a team member (by accident).:eek:

[MonsOlympus]

I totally agree with Ultron.
You shoot to kill :D , even if it is a team member (by accident).:eek:

Yeah I think thats one of the skills people have all but forgotten these days because of the people who just team kill for the sake of it, so we end up with alot of servers without team killing enabled.

I mean boosting is a kewl idea and all but it can also be achieved with the shieldgun against another shieldgun which makes alot more sense then your teammates magically being able to survive a direct shot from a super shock rifle.

[Hydraxon073]

I've never about this type of boosting... I don't recall seeing any1 using it in action... (probably because i don't play enough CTF :o ).

I voted yes. It's because you have to look at the tactical side of it. When you have friendly fire off while playing CTF, and you see your teammate double-dodge-jumping towards the enemy flag, then you see the glint of an enemy sniper muzzle from the top of a tower, shooting your team-mate to propell him foward or whichever way he's going does:

1- Could possibly be the one (friendly) shot that turns the tide in a seemingly hopeless match for that team.

2- It makes the game more interesting using these kinds of tactics. C'mon, you're using resources- friendly fire is off, a team-mate is about to get shot down when he's literally 20 unreal units from the flag and again, it makes gameplay more interesting and unpredictable.

3- The sniper had his finger hovering over the key he bound to "Nailed 'em" and then he misses a perfect headshot. He'll go beserk! :D

[SoupNazi{HoC}]

Those voting against it have obviously never tried it. It was a technique used masterfully by scores of highly trained clans during the heyday of LGI ladder matches, both by the flag carriers and the defenders tasked to "Get Out Flag Back!" Our Herd was an original UT LGI squad long before there were ladders and we ended up winning and losing all kinds of matches because of boosting. This thread makes it sound like it is an easy skill to master. It is not. But it sure is easy to vote against.

[Devastation]

No, it makes no physical sense whatsoever. If you shoot your team-mate with an instagib, they should die.:D

[vnx]

Yes ,should watch me ,how i`ll boosting your whole team around ,right then when it comes ,back!

[GG-Xtreme]

Optional On/Off. It depends, sometimes I like to go for realism, non-brightskins, team damage on; sometimes I like to make it as "Unreal" as possible.

[UnrealDesignStudio]

Well I used to rocket boost back in Quake 3 Arena but since then ive become a bit of a purist. I personally have never used mutators have no desire to nor did i mess with Onslaught that much. I like sticking to the pure "core" gametypes and abilities and thats it.

[MRScorpia]

I voted optional,
I don't think boosting would be very fair on TWL, it makes the game go to quickly, it defeats the whole purpose of defending. But on a Pub I always find it fun to boost a Teammate across the map...

[alex904]

Yes, boosting is a big part of LGI and RGI, so we need it and Epic knows about it. Remember 2k4 pre-release IRC chat with M.Rein and my question if he knows what boosting is why it's been so porrly implemented in 2k3. He did not have a clue. And then suddenly he and other guys in Epic got savvy on what it is and why Instagib community loves it. :)
Anyway, in 2k3 boosting AKA Multiplicator was just too weak and nobody noticed it, we had to design mutators (InstagibageClassic is an example), then we had to reduce it in 2k4 to "have feeling of ut99". But it was too strong this time. Also, absence of visual aid when you hit your teammate was a big blow. No idea why it was off.
So I vote Yes.
It's stupid to say that boosting is only for pub games because it was and is BIG part of teamplay. LGI teamplay is based on team boosting regardless map. I remember we were spending hours practicing that. Either you're a D or O - all the same. D's oftenly are primary boosters in matches. I know what I'm talking about. We've been #1 on OGL for a year. :P