Why were the ripper + Original Launcher cut from UT?

[ZeornWarlock]

I was wondering what was the reason for EPIC to cut the Ripper/Razor Jack and The Original rocker Launcher from UT?

I say this many times, but those weapons were original ideas and made UT totally unique. Something you did not see in any other FPS, at least any that I know of.

Will EPIC ever bring them back to UT3 and up?

ZW.

[Boksha]

The rocketlauncher was never cut. :confused:
It wasn't changed at all between Unreal and Unreal Tournament, and the only (fundamental) change between UT and UT2k3 was that the maximum load was changed from 6 to 3 and the ability to throw grenades instead of rockets was removed. The grenades are back in in UT3 though.

[DagnyTaggart]

I'd love to get my six rockets/grenades back for UT3.

[ZeornWarlock]

Boksha,

The original RL felt cut to me because the UT2003/4 RL does not play the same. Granted, I know the 8Ball was quite devastating. However, I would love to have all its old features back. The line of rockets it could shoot was a blast! (Not counting the circle of rocket attack etc...) I did not know the grenades were back for UT3. Now that is something I look forward too. :D Thanks for the info.

If EPIC would bring back the Ripper, now that would be great. (I hope not like the one they added in UC2, thought!)

I say to Epic, why spoil us with cool stuff, and then take it away from us after? Maybe you cannot please everyone with everything, but taking away something a few of us loved, is a total turn off. At least that what happen to me with the latest UTs.

ZW.

[Shadow Dancer]

You can still shoot the 2k3/4 rockets in a line, also. Just hold the multi-load w/o touching the other firemode.

The reasoning i heard for the Ripper's removal was that there were lots of static meshes and oddly shaped walls in 2k3/4 that would make it impractical to use. The Ripjeck Replacer mutator calls that judgement into question, however. Personally, I'd like to see the Razorjack come back, in terms of design and in terms of it's guideable secondary instead of that weird explosive alt-fire...

A lot of people hated the Ripper, though, because you can get random headshots around corners.
They failed to take into account that random rockets, grenades, flak shots, Deemers, shock combos etc. can give random kills just as easily... Basicly it turned into a scape-goat fo sorts and Epic nixed it. I hope it comes back in some form, because UT needs the brutality. :)

[Boksha]

The rocket circle was replaced by the spiral firemode. I think the tight circle from Unreal and UT was more useful though, the spiral is way too wide, spreading the small but powerful explosion out over a larger area.

[TWD]

The ripper was removed because it sucked.

GOOD RIDDANCE!

That being said the viper's fire is very similar to a ripper, and since it's on a vehicle I doubt it will be nearly as annoying!

[{|xDi|}DaMaGE!]

the ripper was great in UT99 for boosting, could boost like you couldnt imagine with the shild belt and keg :cool:

[iron12]

I think the reason they got rid of those weapons is because a group of people where complaining about spam. And those weapons with the bouncing rockets and bouncing blades where the spamiest weapons. So they modified the rocket launcher so it didn’t have bouncing rockets and they got rid of the Ripper all together. To bad; those weapons where a hoot.:(

[CaptainZap]

I was wondering what was the reason for EPIC to cut the Ripper/Razor Jack and The Original rocker Launcher from UT?

I say this many times, but those weapons were original ideas and made UT totally unique. Something you did not see in any other FPS, at least any that I know of.

Will EPIC ever bring them back to UT3 and up?

ZW.


Good question. I've asked it many times. Kinda funny how something so fun was removed. The Ripper, and six rockets in a row were the best, but bean counters wearing a pound of starch in their ties decided it was unfair to a small vocal minority (about 10 people that spam the pi_ss out of the forums).

Edit: The proof is in the pudding. Just as many or more people play UT99 online than UT2k series.

[TWD]

To a small vocal minority? I'd say it was more like 95% of the UT99 community that hated it...

Trust me, there's a good reason it's gone.

[CaptainZap]

To a small vocal minority? I'd say it was more like 95% of the UT99 community that hated it...

Trust me, there's a good reason it's gone.

Yea, to keep people from having fun.

Edit: It worked like a charm.

[ZeornWarlock]

To a small vocal minority? I'd say it was more like 95% of the UT99 community that hated it...

Trust me, there's a good reason it's gone.

95%?

Where is the proof of that statistic? Any link?

ZW.

[Night Shadow]

i made a ripper poll so go vote and well see if epic does anything.

[Sb27441]

The spiral is a result of practicality. How does one feature three rockets launched in a circle? It would just appear as a triangle, and the spiral is more aesthetically pleasing.

[TWD]

You realize that 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot right?

Unfortunatly we don't do studies on information like this. I was around in UT99, I played a lot, and I was active in the community. Just like I am now. All I can ever remember about the ripper in UT99 was people complaining about it. When it was pointed out that it wouldn't be in UT2k3 there was nothing but praise. Sure there was discussion about it, but almost everyone agreed the UT99 ripper had serious problems. I am very confident in saying that few people missed it when the weapon was removed.

A lot of the communities ideology before UT2k3 was released was that in UT you could get a kill without any real effort on your part. Hence the weapons were all nerfed down a bit, and killing someone became much more difficult. I believe the ripper was the primary cause for this sentiment.

Often times you'll see people talk about the "small vocal minority" that screw things up for everyone else. It just flat out isn't true. UT2k3 required more skill because that's what the community in general wanted! I'd tend to agree with them. There was some cheese in UT99 that just had to go! UT2k3/2k4 was very successful in this respect. It was a lot of the other things like the dodge jumping, and scale that screwed things up. These are the things that in general the community was very split on. These were issues that were constantly at odds. Always a thread about I don't want dodge jump, and then a bunch of people coming in defending Epic's decision (it was all very similar to the CTF vs vCTF issue we have today). In fact I was very vocal about supporting the dodge jump. Something that I as well as most of the others I knew that supported it back then, have since changed their opinion on. Obviously there's a lot to look back on with this in view. A lot of what we all thought back then is very ironic now when you look at our current situation.

Either way the only reason I go into that is because the ripper being removed just wasn't ever an issue. It came up people talked about it a bit, and then decided they just didn't care.

[Wail of Suicide]

You realize that 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot right?

Unfortunatly we don't do studies on information like this. I was around in UT99, I played a lot, and I was active in the community. Just like I am now. All I can ever remember about the ripper in UT99 was people complaining about it. When it was pointed out that it wouldn't be in UT2k3 there was nothing but praise. Sure there was discussion about it, but almost everyone agreed the UT99 ripper had serious problems. I am very confident in saying that few people missed it when the weapon was removed.

A lot of the communities ideology before UT2k3 was released was that in UT you could get a kill without any real effort on your part. Hence the weapons were all nerfed down a bit, and killing someone became much more difficult. I believe the ripper was the primary cause for this sentiment.

Often times you'll see people talk about the "small vocal minority" that screw things up for everyone else. It just flat out isn't true. UT2k3 required more skill because that's what the community in general wanted! I'd tend to agree with them. There was some cheese in UT99 that just had to go! UT2k3/2k4 was very successful in this respect. It was a lot of the other things like the dodge jumping, and scale that screwed things up. These are the things that in general the community was very split on. These were issues that were constantly at odds. Always a thread about I don't want dodge jump, and then a bunch of people coming in defending Epic's decision (it was all very similar to the CTF vs vCTF issue we have today). In fact I was very vocal about supporting the dodge jump. Something that I as well as most of the others I knew that supported it back then, have since changed their opinion on. Obviously there's a lot to look back on with this in view. A lot of what we all thought back then is very ironic now when you look at our current situation.

Either way the only reason I go into that is because the ripper being removed just wasn't ever an issue. It came up people talked about it a bit, and then decided they just didn't care.

The problem is that the number of people who come to a forum like this and make an account and post at all, much less post regularly, are an extremely small minority of the overall UT community. Trying to form an overall impression of people's reactions based on a very limited portion of players is necessarily going to skew your impression based upon the self-selection of people who choose to spend time discussing the game outside of the game.

Of course, when the Ripper was taken out in UT2003, I didn't complain: I liked the weapon but it was simply not as good as the other weapons. The Ripper as it was in UT1 would have been very weak in UT2kX. After playing without the weapon for so long, though, I do find myself missing it. When all is said and done it was a very flavorful weapon (if not a great weapon in itself) and I'd like to see them do something to improve it and bring it back.

[Mort_Q]

Either way the only reason I go into that is because the ripper being removed just wasn't ever an issue. It came up people talked about it a bit, and then decided they just didn't care.

I miss it every once in awhile... I liked it in gimmick maps... ones where the architecture was designed around having the weapon in the map... matched up with the sniper and shock rifle on DM-DeathFan, iirc. I need to reinstall I think.

It doesn't belong on just any map.

We need more cool gimmick maps... the kind us casual players like and the competitive players b!tch and moan about... I like them. Cool superweapon hidden somewhere... some mutator like effect and FRAG!

{sorry, got carried away}

[Defeat]

>I liked the ripper, it helped me get kills because I was on dial up :D

[Boksha]

The spiral is a result of practicality. How does one feature three rockets launched in a circle? It would just appear as a triangle, and the spiral is more aesthetically pleasing. It could've been a very tight spiral to have the same visual effect, yet lose nothing of the UT circlefire's effectiveness.

[Skandalouz]

i've been playing uneral a lot simply because it did have the razorjack...didnt need much skills, but it was fun from time to time..

[musilowski]

The ripper was removed because it sucked.

GOOD RIDDANCE!Or you couldn't be arsed to become better with it. ;)

I personally loved it. :D

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I'd love to get my six rockets/grenades back for UT3.

Me too. If you make the blast radius actually dangerous again, it becomes a weapon you have to actually think a bit to use to avoid killing yourself. With the speed of loading, and the tremendous damage radius, the RL wasn't something you loaded up casually. Of course, that takes into account how tight UT99 maps were.

The current RL you basically use as a hand-to-hand combat weapon, since the rockets are too slow for any distance, and the splash damage is almost nonexistent. Also, the lock function takes twice as long as UT99, and breaks immediately, whereas in UT it had a much wider "cone" for the lock-on. In 2kx, you have to keep the damn crosshair on top of the target for about three seconds, which, considering the movement system, is impossible.

Add to this the fact that the secondary function (grenades) were removed, and replaced with the half-power multi-launch primary of the original, while the new primary fire is just a dumb-fire switch. It's basically a totally different (and inferior) weapon. The 2kx RL is all losses, when compared to the UT99 version.

[Boksha]

Well, the UT2k3 rocketlauncher was superior in one aspect.
It was actually useful.

[CaptainZap]

Well, the UT2k3 rocketlauncher was superior in one aspect.
It was actually useful.

Useful...... yes, but so is a toothpick. We're talking fun here.

[TWD]

Or you couldn't be arsed to become better with it. ;)

I personally loved it. :D

Become better with it? Don't be silly. It's spray and pray, nothing more.

Not to mention that it and and the goo gun were by far the least effective weapons in the game as seen in the ngstats. Getting good with the ripper wouldn't do you much good.

It's true that my experience is skewed. However, we can't really go out and see what every owner of UT99 thinks either. It doesn't mean it's constant either. Before UT2k3 things were very much against the ripper, but if past polls tell us anything that isn't the case anymore. Of course again any result like that could be very skewed.

[Modulus]

You 2k4 ppl are lame!!

UT99 rocket launcher was dangerous to both your enemy and to yourself... Which is why it was so fun!

2k4 RL is a loser in every aspect that I can think of.

As for the ripper... It's not terribly spammy imo. I am a good UT99 player... Not the best, but better than most. I played about 3 hours of UT last night and paid special attention to my ripper spam. I used it probably more than usual because it was on my brain and you know what? I only got ONE headshot from spam. You be the judge.

[ShredPrince]

Me thinks anyone who wants 6 rox cannot aim worth poop.

UT99's Rocket Launcher was the most ridiculos and overpowered weapon in any FPS.There was not much of a point in using anything else as long as you had ammo for it.

One of the areas were I feel like 2k4 shined is at least a few more weapons get used.SOme would argue the shock rifle is overpowered BLAH....The flack, Rox, mini, and LG are are fairly balanced.

I'll take a LG to a Rox user any day in UT2004, I'd be skeptical of using a anything but the RL in UT99.

My point is 6 rox needs to stay in the vaults unless they are "drunken" rockets.

[Kronos]

I never did like loading 6 rockets in unreal and ut, it just seemed a little carried away. I think 3 works great. I'm really proud to see the gernades return in UT3 while still only shooting a max of 3. As for the ripper, that gun is bad ass, I see no reason in why they would ever remove this weapon. It was truely one of the biggest unique weapons.

[Boksha]

Useful...... yes, but so is a toothpick. We're talking fun here. Well, if you find losing because you were using your favourite weapon fun, then yes, the UT rocketlauncher was loads of fun.
Me, I'm glad I actually get to use the rocketlauncher and at least get a few hits in before I get hosed down by hitscan.


UT99's Rocket Launcher was the most ridiculos and overpowered weapon in any FPS.There was not much of a point in using anything else as long as you had ammo for it.

I'll take a LG to a Rox user any day in UT2004, I'd be skeptical of using a anything but the RL in UT99. Did you actually play UT? Unless you're playing CTF or FFA DM you'll never get the rocketlauncher close enough to an enemy to actually hit him.
The flakcannon, sniper, mini, pulsegun and shockrifle were all more powerful than the rocketlauncher in UT.

[Sb27441]

The RL is one of the more balanced weapons in both games, but certain factors prevented most players from utilizing it.

In UT99, the overpowered weaponry such as the minigun and pulse reduced the viability of the RL as a competitive weapon.

In UT2k4, movement options mandated the use of hitscan weaponry to actually hit anything, once again reducing the viability of the RL as a competitive weapon.

[ShredPrince]

Did you actually play UT? Unless you're playing CTF or FFA DM you'll never get the rocketlauncher close enough to an enemy to actually hit him.
The flakcannon, sniper, mini, pulsegun and shockrifle were all more powerful than the rocketlauncher in UT.
Yeah, did you?

All I play is CTF, and DM FFA (no matter the game)....in fact waht else was in UT99 besides DOM, and AS......LOL???????

So I guess you mean in DOM, and AS, two gametypes not returning to UT3....??

[Modulus]

Did you actually play UT? Unless you're playing CTF or FFA DM you'll never get the rocketlauncher close enough to an enemy to actually hit him.
The flakcannon, sniper, mini, pulsegun and shockrifle were all more powerful than the rocketlauncher in UT.

That's the first thing I thought too... "This guy has never played UT99"

[Modulus]

Yeah, did you?

All I play is CTF, and DM FFA (no matter the game)....in fact waht else was in UT99 besides DOM, and AS......LOL???????

So I guess you mean in DOM, and AS, two gametypes not returning to UT3....??

TDM, RA, DM, CTF, LMS, DOM... All of which were pretty popular.

Personally I dodge rocket spam all the time... It's not that hard. Especially if you know how to dodge forward and back as well as from side to side.

Ya know, I honestly wish that I could play all of you ppl who frequent this board in UT99... It would give me some sense of where you're coming from.