A better solution for 'Host advantage'

[Hsoolien]

Now every one keeps saying 'Client Side Hit Detection' (now reffered to as CSHD)
Now as I pointed out CSHD has two draw backs: (bear with me or skip to 'Better solution')
1.)Makes it easier to cheat. Now before you say 'how hard is it to heat?' The fact that Epic updated the cheat protection in the last patch tells me there are people writing cheats for GOW. Coming fromt he UT series I know that all forms of cheapt proteciton appllied to the game were under constant attack by people who make a living selling new cheats to sad ass players, I would like to reduce the cheating they can manage.
2.)Delayed hits. IT's not as big of an issue in an interent that keeps getting faster and faster, but since where I am means I tend to play with better then 80 ping to most other people, I don't like dying after I've been behind cover for a recordable length of time (ie, long enough I know I've been out of sight too long to be shot, not, I just popped behind) In other words I feel this worse then most of you obviously
Also unlike everybody else hear it seems, playing shooting games in RL (Paintball to be specific) has caused me to lead shots anyways, sort of throws me in Single player/games I have hosted

That all said, I do see how when it seems every other game out there has CSHD I can see how one or to not could be frustrating.

A Better Solution

A while back UT2004 saw as part of a mutator bundle that is very poular (the UTComp mut) the developers called Newnet.
How does Newnet work?
What happens is when you make your shot the information is passed to the server/host with a time stamp. Upon receiveing the packet the server as such rewinds the server positions, checks your hit and if the player is where you shot, then s/he is shot.

Now this too has it's problems (mostly with weapon types not found in GOW), but I found it to be a decent comprimise between the flawed CSHD and the standard way UE servers deal with hit detection (whcih has it's own flaws)

[Pokesomi]

Could you pm me more details on the NEWNET thing. I would like to do some research on this.

For now I am not really playing on Live with this game. But as to where I stand on the Whole issue? I dont know.

[m Brooksay]

Client side. I've played many other shooters and I have had very few bullsh*t moments with it. It is popular for a reason: it "appears" to work instantly, and that's what players want to happen.

This timestamp idea sounds pretty good though, too. I guess it's better than nothing, but given a choice, I choose CSHD.

[Hsoolien]

Could you pm me more details on the NEWNET thing. I would like to do some research on this.

For now I am not really playing on Live with this game. But as to where I stand on the Whole issue? I dont know.

I would love to PM you, but my PM box is full of phantom PM's I can't see to delete.

Look up UTComp for UT2004 and the Newnet for it, that's where I got it fomr, and these forums should have a thread or two in relation to it.



Client side. I've played many other shooters and I have had very few bullsh*t moments with it. It is popular for a reason: it "appears" to work instantly, and that's what players want to happen.

This timestamp idea sounds pretty good though, too. I guess it's better than nothing, but given a choice, I choose CSHD.

For me it's nothing but BS moments with CSHD ("What do you mean he shot me? I can't see him to shoot him the walls in the way" happens lots to me, but then my ping is higher then average form location), which is why I avoid games that have it

[KB UZZI]

yeee haw......lol....i would like to see cshd but i do fine without (but would be much more fair for ppl who dont know how to use the delay in their shot the right way)

[Hornet]

We just need a better system than what's out now. Because I played the Shadowrun Beta for a long time, then went back to Gears, and asked myself "What? I definately lead him enough to down him!" Then going back to the Beta, and loving how you dont have to lead anybody to kill somebody.
I could only imagine how huge of a change the gameplay of GoW online would be if they made it have CSHD or Newnet.

[m Brooksay]

We just need a better system than what's out now. Because I played the Shadowrun Beta for a long time, then went back to Gears, and asked myself "What? I definately lead him enough to down him!" Then going back to the Beta, and loving how you dont have to lead anybody to kill somebody.
I could only imagine how huge of a change the gameplay of GoW online would be if they made it have CSHD or Newnet.

The gameplay in GoW right now is decent, better than most. Imagining CSHD in this game would make it the most unbelievable next-gen experience. The firefights would be a new level of intensity.

[Matthew21210]

actually newnet sounds okay but what about those w/slowconnection they "get shot by you" but while it is in transit they could get a kill in I.e. you shoot, but in transit the snipe your buddy who you were trying to protect. what would it do oh hey um yeeeaaah you didn't die he was already dead? sorry but ill support cshd or current. at least you know when they'll go down. and for them goin' down is unavoidable

[The Drizzle]

Every were ive read in these fourms ppl have been talking host advantage this, host advantage that. To be honest its gotten to be really anowing to read. If your tryed of geting your ass handed to you by the host stop going to join quick match insted go to find costum game and look for a host you will have a good conection with (you can tell this by the bars on the right) if there is only one to two bars that means if you join your gona get raped by host no matter what but if you go to one with 4 thats your best bet because you will have little to no lag to host so it will be mostly fair. but if you suck or have ****y ISP theres really nothing you can do no matter where you go your gona get owned in a ranked and player matchs. at least for now thats your best bet to avoid geting owned till they add that new anti lag **** all you noobs been asking for.:D

and if theres something spellt wrong in here i really dont care!

[snl25]

We just need a better system than what's out now. Because I played the Shadowrun Beta for a long time, then went back to Gears, and asked myself "What? I definately lead him enough to down him!" Then going back to the Beta, and loving how you dont have to lead anybody to kill somebody.
I could only imagine how huge of a change the gameplay of GoW online would be if they made it have CSHD or Newnet.

When did you get into the Shadowrun Beta? I signed up the day the registrations were available. I never got an e-mail or anything about it. I also never heard anything about the beta starting, and I check every video game journalist site. That is BS, I signed up and gave verifiable information and told them how many hours I play games, my gamertag and such. I have never even heard of anyone getting into the beta yet. Please tell me more about it, and if a video is possible please record one. I'm very anxious to see this game.

Edit: Yeah, I went to the official Shadowrun website to find the Beta went live on December 27th. And I know you won't be able to talk about it since you would obviously be under NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement), so a video would be out of the question. They only accepted 4,000 applicants initially, with 200 being MS employees. They will be allowing more in weekly throughout January and February. I hope I get accepted, I have been wanting to try this for more then a year and a half.

[ZodiacalRad]

just better system

[RJ91classic]

I like what gears is using right now

[2th]

newnet would be good due to the lack of hitscan weapons in GOW... however a truly better solution would be dedicated servers not this listen server bullsh*t

[xx Dr Jackal xx]

Every were ive read in these fourms ppl have been talking host advantage this, host advantage that. To be honest its gotten to be really anowing to read. If your tryed of geting your ass handed to you by the host stop going to join quick match insted go to find costum game and look for a host you will have a good conection with (you can tell this by the bars on the right) if there is only one to two bars that means if you join your gona get raped by host no matter what but if you go to one with 4 thats your best bet because you will have little to no lag to host so it will be mostly fair.

The connection bars say something, but not enough. I've gone into 3-bars on many occasions only to find myself with a 2-bar connection while playing, finding out later I just happened to walk into a european host that I assumed was american. A lot of connections only appear to be 3 bars while there's no actual activity between players, then when the game fills up and starts, it's 5 kinds of wtf. And even some 3-bars may be fast while another is about half the speed, so it's not easy to know what you're walking into before the game begins.

What we need is actual ping listing, which I'd like to see in a future update. If you've played anything on PC you see that detailed number telling you just how good or bad your connection will be. Much better than the vague 1-3 bar system. And with ping, people would be joining the faster hosts, making for better games, less quiting, and a lot less hosts with slow connections having a ridiculous advantage, since no one would join their piss-poor connection games to begin with.

[Skiddywinks]

Haven't read the whole topic, aint got the time, but I felt like adding something on those times when you get shot behind a wall.

Although it is very annoying when you think you're safe, and then dying after you have gone for cover, the fact of the matter is, you should have been shot when you weren't. You got shot fair and square, and in some cases, should be dead.

Granted, thinking you managed to survive and then die all of a sudden is a pain, but it is fair (You should have died earlier) and only happens when you get some lag or not-so-decent latency.

CSHD all the way.

[TooMuchButtHair]

Client-side hit detection is, by far, the most rational solution to the problem of bullet lag. If Gears had it, it would be BY FAR the best shooter money can buy.

[treemonkeys]

Until we start getting dedicated servers on the 360, that allow people to get pings as low as the 20's, it will always be backwards-assed technology.

Next-gen my ass, PC has had this problem licked for a long time.

[HanSolo2187]

The funny thing is - Epic HAS addressed the Host Advantage issue. They splatter blood on the host's screen (and ONLY the host's screen) when he gets hit. Now, do I feel like this is an "even tradeoff"? Hell no.

Thus, Epic (a) recognizes that the host has an advantage and (b) has addressed it. My question is - if they are willing to invoke the "blood splatter" on the host's screen, then why aren't they willing to try other methods to "level the playing field"?

My suggestions -
1. Alternate host duties between teams after EVERY ROUND.
2. Nerf Host's weapons all by 75%.
3. Add an artificial weapon lag to the host based on the average ping in the room.
4. Hide who the host is once the match starts (like H2 does).