Reloading?

[theeDEATHMASTER]

None of the UT games had this, I'm not entirely sure its a good idea, but lets hear your opinions :)

[fuegerstef]

I reloaded UT a few times after it crashed.








If you mean manual reloading of weapons by pressing a button you should have stated that.


I will comment later: for now I want some popcorn and enjoy the show. :) Hopefully the right people show up: Best would be people who want a fast paced UT with good UT-like gameplay on the one side and Xyx on the other.

[{SM}LeadSniper]

ballistic weapons mod have reload and in my opinoion its not that bad i could live with it eather way.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

If you mean manual reloading of weapons by pressing a button you should have stated that.

"Should UT2007 have reloading with guns?"
Yeah, weapons.

[fuegerstef]

"Should UT2007 have reloading with guns?"
Yeah, weapons.

When I posted, the poll wasn't up yet. And the thread titled didn't say anything about it. :p (Someone had this in anther thread too)

[The5thviruz]

Good god no!


I will comment later: for now I want some popcorn and enjoy the show. :) Hopefully the right people show up: Best would be people who want a fast paced UT with good UT-like gameplay on the one side and Xyx on the other.

I lol'd.

[Tarball|UTzone]

DONT !
UT needs to be UT

[Sinister]

Bad idea...its UT. UT have to evolve. But mustn't become similar to CS or CoD.

[Flak]

I certainly hope not. ;) Not having to reload is one of the things I love about UT.

[Bjossi]

I like both reloading and none, but in UT I don't really think it would be a good idea, Ballistic Weapons is an exception. ;)

[[uMA]Decayed]

No.

end of discussion

[Scylla]

Great, another pointless suggestion.

Time to put this with rolling, crouch jumping and paying $25 a year for features you can get for free.

[Gregori]

None of the UT games had this, I'm not entirely sure its a good idea, but lets hear your opinions :)


UT2k7 shouldn't have reload in the actual game itself maybe as a mutator or a part of Warfare. Since Epic is putting so many thousand of polygons into each weapon model, I wouldn't mind seeing weapons with reloading animations, clips and ammo that are visibly detachable on all weapon models.

This would make all the weapons seem more believable ( a goal long stated by Epic for its UT2k7 weapons) and would be good for anyone making a SinglePlayer/Tactical mod thats based in the unreal universe for UT2k7.


I just imagine removing the steaming spent core of the new shockrifle and throwing it to the ground then loading a fresh new core as looking pretty ****ing cool!

[Xyx]

Best would be people who want a fast paced UT with good UT-like gameplay on the one side and Xyx on the other.
Such a sad little world you live in, if you must attempt to insult me in random threads in order to feel good. Good luck with your popcorn, I'm not joining in.

[awaw]

No!

*shakesfistat10characterslimit*

[»madMar†y»]

No...nein...nee....non

[Jake-SF]

I "love" reloading, if there is a good animation and if the weapons are still balanced. Honestly, it adds a LOT and I love it.

I don't know about weapon reloading for UT, the weapons are kind of different.. but take the AutoMagin Unreal 1, it reloaded every 20 shots (you couldn'T force reload except by switching weapons, so no animation - boring, in other words it only lacked a reload key) and IMO it was great, I don't know why but I love the feelings when I see and hear a clip gets into a gun (needs good sound and animation, again) I would like it in UT I guess.

I remember C&C Renegade, you can reload the weapon even if they are full of ammo (in other words, it does nothing than stop you from firing during the reload) and everytime I walked long distance, I constantly reloaded... yes, im addicted to reloading...

Bad side : needs to be balanced and could feel awkward for some weapons.

Good : Could always reduce spam a bit but still allow the non-hitscan weapon to be powerfull.


Great, another pointless suggestion.

Time to put this with rolling, crouch jumping and paying $25 a year for features you can get for free.
Great, another pointless post in a topic you think is pointless but any thread can bring interesting suggestion...

[VoodooPriest]

Definately.

And refilling! Refilling of the Biorifle, could be expanded into a small minigame inside the game. If you spill goo during the refilling you're crosshair gets all wobbly and the screen resolution drops to 320x200

Seriously that is the worst suggestion evar, almost like the guy in the other thread who wanted random item spawns

[AntiMatter]

Omg No, that would ruin the gameplay beyond imagination !

[iLL]

I certainly hope not. ;) Not having to reload is one of the things I love about UT.

I agree completely.As if reloading is fun somehow.Its more realistic yeah,but it just slows the game down.Absolutely not.

[Scylla]

Great, another pointless post in a topic you think is pointless but any thread can bring interesting suggestion...

Good luck trying to find a thread which has a good suggestion in this forum.

I'm fed up of people trying to turn UT 2007 into the most realistic game ever created.

I myself think that reloading has no place in any UT game. Imagine, you're in the heat of a battle, then suddenly you have to stop firing to reload.
Kind of kills the atmosphere.

[MonsOlympus]

Umm I though the weapons did reload already :S

Rox - reloads when you press fire.
Flakk - reloads when you press fire.
lightning gun - autocharges.

Well I guess you get the idea. I like the idea of reloading but it wouldnt work very well with the standard weapon set as they have been designed around not having it. By adding it too these weapons I think it would look kinda funny and not worth it tbh

[fuegerstef]

Such a sad little world you live in, if you must attempt to insult me in random threads in order to feel good. Good luck with your popcorn, I'm not joining in.

Can you please show me the insult in this thread?
I only said that I would like seeing a battle of words between people that want a fast paced UT and you (often wanting a slower and different kind of game, more aimed towards SP and offline play, you cannot deny that). How is that an insult??? :confused:

[Hamburger]

I don’t care, reload or no reload its all the same to me.

[Gregori]

Can you please show me the insult in this thread?
I only said that I would like seeing a battle of words between people that want a fast paced UT and you (often wanting a slower and different kind of game, more aimed towards SP and offline play, you cannot deny that). How is that an insult??? :confused:

Making personal attacks by naming people who hadn't even posted in the thread yet is undeniably insulting, and you know it!

Ofcourse you're just going to completely deny that.:)

[theeDEATHMASTER]

NEVER!! Reloading will slow down the pace of the game. I'm not gonna reload 3 rockets everytime I shoot triple rockets. Imagine reloading after every 3 shock combos. It would get annoying. It would be cool to see how each weapon reloads, but it really isn't needed in the game.
Actually if you've noticed each rocket pack of ammo you pick up is 12 rockets, the launcher itself only shoots a max of 3 at once, shock rifle ammo is 10.

[MonsOlympus]

umm did you guys read what I posted? Doesnt the rox reload while you are firing which is why it loads up 3 in the first place? for a single it loads one each time after you fire :S

I think the ammopack is the bit sticking out the side.

[NUTS!]

UT is an example of a "DM" game. These "DM" games don't have reloading for a reason...

[Gregori]

Yeah, but how would 12 rockets fit in one rocket launcher?

Magic obviously!

[BigJim]

Like most here, my first thought was "no way!"
But the more I think about it, I'm beginning to warm to the idea, for one weapon only.
Can you tell what it is yet? [/rolf harris voice]

The Sniper-Rifle.

Let's assume (merely for the sake of arguement) tht you get a 4 or 5-round clip.
I'm down to 2 rounds left, I'm camping our flag and we've not seen any attackers for the last 30 secs or so.

Do I risk reloading, and possbily give an attacker the vital few seconds to close on my position, or do I sit tight, and prey that my 2 rounds are enough to drop him?
What if he's got backup? I'll need those extra rounds for sure.

But what if I reload only for the attackers to appear that very second, & rush me while I've got my hands down my underpants?
Ooh, the tension, I'm all paranoid now.

For any other weapon it'd suck, and spoil the speed of the game - but for the sniper, it might just help put the sniper back in it's place - a purely sniping weapon, not an assault rifle.

Currently there's no reason why a decent player can't jump into close combat armed only with a sniper, ok it's got a (relatively) slow RoF, but then again, the damage is so high that it plenty makes up for it.

We *have* to have a high powered sniper rifle (for obvious reasons), and we need to give it a reasonable RoF, otherwise it'd be useless for genuine sniping.

But imo there needs to be *some* mechanism that means it's not really effective versus say, the Flak or Rox (close up), otherwise it's just a shock rifle with zoom.

[Ward]

Maybe. I love it to combat someone and then having to take cover and reload the weapon (provided the animations are cool), but given the fast pace of UT I think it's going to be a primary source of frustration to most of the gamers.

[iron12]

No I don't like the idea of reloading. Or watching my guy get in and out of vehicles. Stop trying to turn this into some kind of UT – BF hybrid. Let UT be UT.

[ne_skaju]

reloading would be cool for some weapons

[Garcia y Vega]

Worst idea in one of these threads yet... I hope you don't want reloading deathmaster...

[Wowbagger]

I voted no of course.
UT isnt that type of game.

[The_Deacon]

More likely than not it would just annoy me by having me reload when I least want it. I have enough problems with other players without my own weapons trying to defeat me :p

[Raynor]

No freakin' way!!
It's not some BF or CS, it's UNREAL TOURNAMENT!

[theeDEATHMASTER]

I hope you don't want reloading deathmaster...
I stated in the very first post...

[Up&Over]

I think it would be good as a mut so people don’t have to use it. If it was the standard then Epic would lose a lot of the hardcore Unreal fans in my opinion.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

I would rather have automated reload animations, without affecting the fire rate. That way it would make you feel like the ammo packs you picked up are being used, without negatively affecting the speed and flow of the UT game play.

[Gregori]

I think it would be good as a mut so people don’t have to use it. If it was the standard then Epic would lose a lot of the hardcore Unreal fans in my opinion.

Mutator FTW! Atleast I'd like to see detachable clips and reload animations for all the weapons, since Epic says it's putting so many polygons into making these weapons look functional. Why not spend some polygons and frames on this.
Anybody doing a SP mod set in the Unreal Universe would Appreciate this greatly.

[Shadow]I[]

The Enforcer reloaded in Unreal 1, it was annoying but looked cool :D

[Gregori]

I[']The Enforcer reloaded in Unreal 1, it was annoying but looked cool :D


It had a twirling animation too!

[FrostBiteEST]

I would rather have automated reload animations, without affecting the fire rate. That way it would make you feel like the ammo packs you picked up are being used, without negatively affecting the speed and flow of the UT game play.

agree animations would be cool without affecting fire rate

[MonsOlympus]

Well still havent voted but heres what I find fun about being able to have a weapon you need to manually reload.

Say you and a friend are both behind cover, you jump out at similar times a distance a way, you get within range and..... OH NO "click"
So you both end up jumping like madmen whilst the anims are playing out and the first one with ammo is usually the victor.

I love those situations its so funny, but it does add another skill of knowing when to have a full load of ammo ready or when you cant spare time to reload half a clip.

[9ades]

Probably my biggest complaint about reloading is having to bind a spare key to it. Reloading would be a HUGE pain with the shock rifle, having to reload every 2 combos would suck.

I wouldn't recommend it outside using it for the enforcers.
:cool:

[Jake-SF]

Probably my biggest complaint about reloading is having to bind a spare key to it.
Yeah, I forgot about that. In every game with reload I use R. In every Unreal game I use R to take out the rocket. Damnit :D

[Draco]

no, reloading is a very bad idea for multiple reasons.

1. epic is trying to get rid of the "run away" and "distant fighting" style that seemed to have happend in 2k4. what exactly do u think is going to happen when some one needs to reload if it is implemented in 2k7. they will run away from the fight to the nearest wall or corner or what ever so they can have some cover to reload. epic wants an IN YOU FACE figthing style with non stop action like ut99 was.

2. it was NEVER in any pervious ut, with no guns at all. ut kindove = no reload on wepons, if u wanted that then you would probably want a more realistic shooter such as a CS etc.

3. it totaly ruins the "fast pace" it will turn alot of people into campers and peeps that hide way too much. again like CS lol

4. having reaload in a game that is "intense" like ut is completly pointless. some of you may argue o well it will make it more "realistic" and add more "stratagy" but at what cost completly killing the fast action in your face game...and then of course we move into the line thats been stated a million times "but its unreal!!1" to be quite honest theres not a whole heck of a alot realistic about the game...just as if its soo realistic to be able to pull 10+ guns out of your @ss when ever you would like to, and then put them right back and pull the next one out LOL. so its perfecly acceptable to have non relaoding guns if you are also able to pull 10+ guns out of your behind when ever u feel like it.

[Hamburger]

just as if its soo realistic to be able to pull 10+ guns out of your @ss when ever you would like to, I do on a regular bases, it can clear a run out in record time. :D

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Well still havent voted but heres what I find fun about being able to have a weapon you need to manually reload.

Say you and a friend are both behind cover, you jump out at similar times a distance a way, you get within range and..... OH NO "click"
So you both end up jumping like madmen whilst the anims are playing out and the first one with ammo is usually the victor.

I love those situations its so funny, but it does add another skill of knowing when to have a full load of ammo ready or when you cant spare time to reload half a clip.

I agree. I like situations that are less than ideal. These sorts of lopsided challenges are fun and frustrating, and players who can manage their ammo should be rewarded with fewer of them. This is the perfect "anti spam" technique, too, without limiting rate of fire artificially. People would gripe less about flak cannons if they knew that they could only spew shrapnel for about ten shots before a reload created a gap. Reloading would only take about a second, and players could always switch to another weapon instead. And wouldn't it be cool to see that ASMD clip being slapped into place? And other players would see an empty smoking clip rattle down the hallway, and know that bad boy was now fully functional again. Sweet!

I personally like elements that make players juggle multiple complicating factors. Keeping track of ammo use is sort of a basic tenet of using guns.

[JaFO]

Yes ... reloading is great stuff. It won't 'slow down' the game as you simply learn to hit 'reload' after every fight.

Team Fortress Classic had it and it made for terrificly tense moments while still keeping the fast pace of the game.

There's nothing like the feeling that the dreaded '*click* you're empty' brings to games. Like that scene in 'Desperado' where a bad guy and hero are trying to find the one gun that has ammo ...

It's not like there would have to be 'real' magazines as featured in true realistic games such as Red Orchestra.

Also consider the fact that the 'reload'-feature literally allows for 'spam' to be less of a threat, unless the weapon was made for that feature.
ie : with limited magazines it would be very difficult to 'spam' shockcombo's, while the mini-gun could still be effective as a means of providing suppressive fire.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

lol thanks for a little more realism on the topic.

[{SM}LeadSniper]

when i run a listen server once in a blue moon, i use the BW mod on the maps i re-worked. despite reloads the body counts was still impressive

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

Yes ... reloading is great stuff. It won't 'slow down' the game as you simply learn to hit 'reload' after every fight.

Team Fortress Classic had it and it made for terrificly tense moments while still keeping the fast pace of the game.

There's nothing like the feeling that the dreaded '*click* you're empty' brings to games. Like that scene in 'Desperado' where a bad guy and hero are trying to find the one gun that has ammo ...

It's not like there would have to be 'real' magazines as featured in true realistic games such as Red Orchestra.

Also consider the fact that the 'reload'-feature literally allows for 'spam' to be less of a threat, unless the weapon was made for that feature.
ie : with limited magazines it would be very difficult to 'spam' shockcombo's, while the mini-gun could still be effective as a means of providing suppressive fire.

I can see what you're saying; I'm still unsure how well that would fit into the UT universe though. However, it would be nice to have more skill and less spam.

[Boksha]

tbh, if there's reloading it should be limited to just a few weapons. In Doom3 and Quake4, every weapon and it's mom required explicit reloading, which got boring real quickly.

[da ghost]

I "love" kawk
fixed :):):)

sorry.

[Jake-SF]

fixed :):):)

sorry.
Seriously, I have no idea what it means :rolleyes:

(and it wasn't sarcasm!)

[Teg]

I vote no: keep the gameplay fast, fun and lethal. Reloading would slow the gameplay down.

[UnSkilled]

WOW... this thread's made by a CS player or something... IT's UT here and UT>all not for nothing ;)

So no weapons to reload in UT plz

[steak]

nooooo never!! lol i'd hate waiting to reload when ur being spammed in the face, thats why i never play CS, too slow for me! ut FTW!!

[l-_-l]

I certainly hope not. ;) Not having to reload is one of the things I love about UT.

The authority has spoken

aaammm.... aaammm .... aaammm .... worship the mighty Fl4k's opinions ... :p :D


NO. Ruins the style.

[Malakai]

No reloading, nevas!!

[Kronos]

I vote no, reloading would just get in the way. There are over 12 weapons now in UT and I dont plan on replacing one of my binds for a silly reload key.
Besides, this is the future and from what I've already experienced in UT is that the weapons automatically reload.
Why manually reload when the machine can reload for ya.

[Xyx]

Why manually reload when the machine can reload for ya.
Because different ways of reloading can vary the game's pace and style.

[durtytarget]

NO. Ruins the style.

Agreed. And ruins gameplay. Reloading = noobs gets to kill pros!

[theeDEATHMASTER]

lol real pros wouldn't get killed by something so simple.
Holy revival of months dead thread!

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

Yeah I think posters are getting, bored, desperate, and are starting to running out of topics; thus they just rehash old subjects.

[placebo]

Nobody would ever reload, they'd just switch to one of the other twelve guns they're carrying, so it would have virtually no gameplay added/changed by having reloading

[Jake-SF]

Reloading change the balance of the game. I love reloading, but I don't see myself reloading my shock rifle. The balance would be destroyed. It works extremely in game with weapons built with reloading in mind.

[Shawn14316]

No, because then people couldnt complain when I spam flak on a 30 plus server with the map being way to small for that many people.:D

[Gregori]

I'm not really bothered either way. If there was reloading their would be pretty cool reloading animations, which is a plus - I really like when weapons look like they would work, have complicated moving bits, ammos slots into them etc!

I hope atleast the player's hands can be seen holding the gun this time around, just like in UT/UC2.

[Malakai]

I wasn't too happy that in UC2 you had to reload the Enforcers. Even though the animation was pretty cool, I could do without it. Also, if they want to make UT3 like UT99, then they better not put reloads for the Enforcers like they did in UC2.

[Nitrous]

no ut is ut ("UNREAL") is not that real don't?? so why reload guns when that can be automatic..

[_Lynx]

Reloading is for Gears.

[MonsOlympus]

I wasn't too happy that in UC2 you had to reload the Enforcers. Even though the animation was pretty cool, I could do without it. Also, if they want to make UT3 like UT99, then they better not put reloads for the Enforcers like they did in UC2.

lol, sorry I just find that kinda funny because it doesnt so much go to reloading as it does to firerate. I think thats a big thing people miss about a game like UT is since there is no reloading firerates become alot more important as with switch times.

I dont mind the few little reloading bits there are in UT like the flak shell getting pushed up and the rockets getting loaded into place as the barrel rotates around. It adds alittle detail in there and can make the firerates alittle better for those weapons, when it comes to weapons without those little bits though it seems they they can get put alittle too fast.

We'll see how UT3 goes anyways, even if the enforcers have a little reload interlude like the lighting gun its still going to be UT hey. I dunno why people take this topic so seriously especially since UT does seem to have its own unique way of doing reloading between shots or while your shooting. Perhaps everyone plays on hidden weapons :p

Edit: and no still havent voted!

[roadrash]

Reload works great in class based games. Look at xmp. Reload rates balanced out the guns, and the guns were tweaked to balance out the class. Was it not for reload the sniper could walk through people, that 3 shot limit was the only thing holding him back. And the reload on the torch was the only thing that prevented the heavy from stomping anything and everything up close.

Once you remove class, and every player can load up all guns, reload becomes bad. It quits balancing and starts limiting.

That's when you create situations where x gun is bad, and y gun is good. And even worse, x gun is made for a large open map and y gun for a close map.

You screw up any sense of balance

[fuegerstef]

If there was reloading their would be pretty cool reloading animations

You sure Max/Maya wouldn't be better for that? ;):p

[sourshishke]

I dont get why everyone voted no.

Please Epic, I would like to see some sweet reloading animations!!!

[intentsly]

I dont get why everyone voted no.

Please Epic, I would like to see some sweet reloading animations!!!

Dude, its already been said in this thread. Someone will probably create a mutator (if not Epic themselves), so it can be an option (not a mandatory thing). It totally makes sense for tactical mods and such, otherwise it has no place in the other modes of play. Its hard enough to keep track of ammo before your weapon runs out and switches to another (if you have it set that way). So, it would be kind of the same situation, when your weapon needs to be reloaded (meaning quite annoying). The other thing is that its just that, stopping to reload. Animations of reloading are kewl, but if they're done so fast you can't see it, why bother. Thats how fast it would have to be, in order to not affect rate of fire. So, reloading as a requirement no, adding animations for a mutator most defiantly!

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[fuegerstef]

I dont get why everyone voted no.

Maybe because they know the UT game mechanics and you don't ???

[m!ni]

I voted NO, reloading in UT would be a right pain (it would totaly change the game play).

Keep unreal UNREAL, sounds as if the game play for UT3 is going to be changed a lot anyway. Im hoping that i recognise UT3 as a UNREAL title, leave the reloading to games such as BF2 please.

Its ok as a mod i quess, but you wont find me on a server with it switched on.

[Boksha]

You want reloading just for the animations? :confused:
Personally I feel gameplay is a bit more important.

[Malakai]

If anyone played Unreal 2, then you'd see what reloading does to an Unreal game. It makes it slower and less action oriented, and it also gets you killed in a frantic firefight.

[Boksha]

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Unreal2 was incredibly slow to begin with.

[Malakai]

Yea, but every weapon in Unreal 2 had to be constantly reloaded, while in every other Unreal title, all the weapons didn't need to be reloaded, except for the Automag in Unreal 1. So its really odd when only 1 out of 7 Unreal games, required you to reload your weapons.

[m!ni]

I can remember the anticipation for Unreal 2 it reminds me of UT3's hype. FINGERS, TOES, LEGS and ARMS crossed that UT3 is NOTHING like Unreal 2.

Please please please dont talk about Unreal 2 because it makes me worry that UT3 will be as bad (no wall, double dodge jumping, slow, made for noobs, pretty with no substance).

Oh this thread is about reloading init ? :o

sorry but that Unreal 2 was... :mad:


ok ok im going ;)

[Jrubzjeknf]

So its really odd when only 1 out of 7 Unreal games, required you to reload your weapons.

Appearantly they learned something and decided to never do it again then.

[Malakai]

Please please please dont talk about Unreal 2 because it makes me worry that UT3 will be as bad (no wall, double dodge jumping, slow, made for noobs, pretty with no substance).

Oh this thread is about reloading init ? :o

sorry but that Unreal 2 was... :mad:


Unreal 2 was subpar for one reason, Legend Entertainment developed it, not Epic. Epic knows how to make games, but Legend.........they don't even exist anymore, if that means anything. So, don't worry too much, Epic has our backs.:)

[Boksha]

Yea, but every weapon in Unreal 2 had to be constantly reloaded, while in every other Unreal title, all the weapons didn't need to be reloaded, except for the Automag in Unreal 1. So its really odd when only 1 out of 7 Unreal games, required you to reload your weapons. Your point? That doesn't tell us anything about reloading weapons or what it does to a game.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

Every Game I ever played with reloading was always slow. I have yet to see any game with a pace as fast as UT that also has reloading. Slow movement, stealth tactics, and slower overall game pace seem to go hand in hand with reloading. So I would say reloading itself does change game play quite significantly.

If the animation of reloading without any of it negative effects or delay could be shown just for esthetics, that would be cool, but I don't see how you could make an animation quick enough to fit into the UT universe without it being out of sink with the weapon fire.

[Malakai]

Your point? That doesn't tell us anything about reloading weapons or what it does to a game.

I already said what it does to an Unreal game here (http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24907141&postcount=85). Whats with you constantly contradicting me? I guess its your thing, eh?

[Boksha]

I already said what it does to an Unreal game here (http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24907141&postcount=85). And I already explained that's not a sound argument here (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24907142&postcount=86).

Whats with you constantly contradicting me? I guess its your thing, eh? Do you really expect a serious response to that?

[Malakai]

Oh, so you're the almighty one who decides whether something is a "sound argument" or not. Stop being so arrogant. I'm not the only one who thinks that way about reloading. Just look at what NeoPhoenixIIM posted, its practically the same thing I said, however I don't see you getting all over him. An opinion is an opinion, you don't like it, deal with it, cause you're not going to change anything.

[Boksha]

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion that a certain argument you're using is stupid. If you think that's arrogant, so be it.
Funny you should mention NeoPhoenixIIM's post by the way. Compare his post with yours for a second; there's actually quite a big difference between "Every game I ever played with reloading was slow" and "Unreal 2 had reloading and was slow".

[Malakai]

I guess you chose not to see this in NeoPhoenixIIM's post: "So I would say reloading itself does change game play quite significantly."

But you know, I'm tired of arguing with you, because for some reason you decided to single me out just because I said something that to you, and only you, it offended.

And just to stop this argument I'm gonna go ahead and say: "Oh great Boksha, you are right, and always will be right. God forbid anyone says something that you do not agree with, for you will contradict them like there is no tomorrow. From now on, I will check with you to see if my opinions are worth anything. You are too smart for all us feeble minded people, and I bow down to you."

There is that good enough for you? Now f*cking drop it.

[DeusGear]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no.

[Boksha]

Holy ****.
Do you even know the difference between argument and conclusion?
And if you think that crying about getting singled out, calling me arrogant or making sarcastic remarks about how I'm out to contradict people for no reason or have a superiority complex just because you failed to see why a single argument you put forward is flawed is any way of stopping an argument... you're absolutely right. Cya.

[Flak]

Please keep the flames out of the thread or it will be closed.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

Along the lines of reloading taking too much time hence cutting the gameplay speed, what if it was a fast animation like the way the flak cannon reloads essentially after every shot? And I noticed that the ut2004 rocket launcher comes in packs of 12 and the pack itself fits into the side of the launcher, same with the shock cores on the bottom of the rifle in ut2003. I suppose this certainly makes me want it to be a mutator of sorts as well.

[Malakai]

I have wondered where exactly those ammo pickups would go on the weapon. I'd be great if someone, even now for UT2k4, could make a reload mutator that shows where the clips go. Like, where does the flak ammo go? That would be nice to see.

[Kronos]

Like someone stated earlier, no one would reload even if there happen to be a reload, there are over 12 weapons in UT now and all you would have to do is switch your weapon to get by from having to reload. Another way people would secretly get by from having to reload there weapon is by running over to the weapon spawn, drop there weapon and pick up the new one. This is an idea that just simply wouldn't feel or fit right in a game such as UT.

[sourshishke]

Maybe because they know the UT game mechanics and you don't ???

Your right.

But still, reload can be good not only for sweet animations. In a fight your enemy could not be paying attention and reload, thus in the middle of a fire fight, he runs out of ammo while you continue to shoot.

But if you can change weapons so fast its unreal, I guess it wouldnt matter:(

[theeDEATHMASTER]

you can change weapons mid reload in most other games like CS too.

[sourshishke]

you can change weapons mid reload in most other games like CS too.

IMO, thats almost like cheating and that move should be slowed down.

In Resistance I like when you catch someone with a half clip, during their reload you just kill them like it would really happen.

[Xyx]

Reloading does not necessarily alter the weapon balance or the game pace. That all depends on how it's done. What reloading does alter is the repetitiveness of gameplay. You'll find yourself in a larger variety of interesting situations.


where does the flak ammo go?
Wondered about that myself. I think those clips contain shells that are individually fed into that hole in the left side of the cannon, shotgun style.


all you would have to do is switch your weapon to get by from having to reload.
Which means more weapons get used. And if weapon switching takes time, reloading is still a good alternative.

[fuegerstef]

You'll find yourself in a larger variety of interesting situations.

Yes, less "In your face" combat and people leaning more towards long-range hitscan weapons they can reload at a quite safe place. Making it more far ranged and hitscan dominant than UT2k4. Hooorrraaayyy!!!!!!!!

[Boksha]

You know, a possible solution to that would be to not implement reloading for the rocketlauncher and flak cannon. :p


IMO, thats almost like cheating and that move should be slowed down. Personally I always find it very frustrating if a game won't let me switch to another weapon because my old weapon is reloading. I mean, it's my game character that's reloading right? I feel that should mean I should be able to make him stop reloading...

[Kronos]

you can change weapons mid reload in most other games like CS too.

Yea except in UT unlike CS you can carry over 12 weapons, reloading like I said would almost be pointless.

[Magwa]

you do not have to reload persay but you do have to get more ammo BUT all Vehicles should also have to get more ammo STOP VEHICLE SPAM!!!!!!! they should work with the same rules foot soliders do,when you fire to much without thinking you run out of ammo this should also apply to vehicles as well as fuel..

[fuegerstef]

you do not have to reload persay but you do have to get more ammo BUT all Vehicles should also have to get more ammo STOP VEHICLE SPAM!!!!!!! they should work with the same rules foot soliders do,when you fire to much without thinking you run out of ammo this should also apply to vehicles as well as fuel..

Won't be happening. EPIC seems to plan to make the vehicles even stronger, compared to UT2k4. :(

[DX-GAME]

Ill have to go with the flow on this one. UT is not a realistic shooter. What it is is a spam fest. Forcing reloading would take away from the mindless fun.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

I just thought of a way to make a reloading animation without effecting game play and without actually reloading. Make it a conditional response to a player standing still. If the player fires his/her weapon and then stands still for a few seconds an automated reload, idle, animation will play through.

Another way might be to utilize the weapon switch time. If they lengthened it any, which I'm assuming they have, they could use that time to throw in a reload animation.

Neither would be 100% realistic, being as they wouldn't be done every 12 rounds or so, but at least it would make it feel a little more real, without effecting game play any.

[Gregori]

You sure Max/Maya wouldn't be better for that? ;):p

Yeah, thats where they create the animations for it :p:rolleyes:

[theeDEATHMASTER]

I can't remember standing still in a UT game except defending in onslaught or sniping.

[intentsly]

You want reloading just for the animations? :confused:
Personally I feel gameplay is a bit more important.

I was saying that having animations for reloading in mods was fine (e.g. tactical mods), but otherwise, as I've said, it doesn't have a place in the other modes of play. Having stated this, it would indicate that gameplay is more important to me as well. ;) My distaste for the 2k series would also be an indicator for the importance I place on gameplay over eyecandy etc.. (my opinion of course) I know my opinion on the 2k series is a bit harsh, but there you have it. :eek:

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

P.S.: This post brought to you by Boksha's post not containing a quote for as to whom his post was referring to. :D Hopefully, he was referring to me, otherwise carry-on!

[Sam Stride]

no no... i dont want weapon reloads.

[MonsOlympus]

you do not have to reload persay but you do have to get more ammo BUT all Vehicles should also have to get more ammo STOP VEHICLE SPAM!!!!!!! they should work with the same rules foot soliders do,when you fire to much without thinking you run out of ammo this should also apply to vehicles as well as fuel..

Yeah it would be nice if they had like energy that could be recharged so people wont just keep firing on purpose all the time. It would just balance vehicles with infantry out alittle, mind you the avril seems to have HEAPS of ammo. It would also be cool if you could recharge the ammo quicker when being linked in a vehicle to give infantry a bigger role on the battlefield with vehicles.


On the subject of weapon reloading for players, as much as I like reloading I just dont think it would work well. It would start turning UT into a game like every other FPS out there, what we need is some diversity which UT seems to offer a fair bit of. See gameplay doesnt have to be exactly representative of whats happening, one of those flak shell clips or whatever dont actually have to hold this many shells they dont actually get loaded in there. That doesnt stop the flak from having speccy animations between shots and whatnot though does it. So on pure visuals reloading doesnt matter a great deal and its biggest impact will be to gameplay.

The bonus is that switch speeds might get lowered which is seems alot of people want anyways because 2k4's were very fast even if UT2k3's were faster. See it works well in realism shooters because they relate directly to real world weapons where UT's dont. Say the shock, does a combo instantly mean you have to reload? So it effects the firerate of the weapon which goes to what I said in the other reload thread about it. It goes more to the firerates then anything else so if a weapon has less ammo sometimes it'll fire slower or perhaps faster so you run out quicker. UT isnt so much about dealing with that stuff because the weapons were designed without reloading in the first place so the fire rate on the flak is based on the fact it doesnt have to reload, same with every weapon in UT.

Thats why UT has things like charge up modes for the bio or rockets, so it would just alter things far to much for it to be recognizable as UT. For me thats the biggest issue, like I said reloading is good and I would like to see what it does for gameplay, then again I have been playing UT for so long without reloading that if it did have it I would probably wish it didnt. If you get where Im coming from :cool:

[Boksha]

P.S.: This post brought to you by Boksha's post not containing a quote for as to whom his post was referring to. :D Hopefully, he was referring to me, otherwise carry-on! I think the post I was replying to there was deleted. Odd stuff. :confused:

[Hedge-o-Matic]

The Link, LG, and Shock are all power packs. The Bio-rifle is compressed, high-pressure goo. The Flak and RL clips are 1-round magazines with an onboard respawn unit. The bulk of the clip is a power pack for the respawning mechanism, that quickly spawns one shot into the hopper, which can then be loaded into the weapon. This explains the loading animations, as well as the size of the ammo packs.

There. Infantry problem solved.

Vehicles have on-board spawn capability, powerful enough to generate ammo as quickly as it is used. This is fortunate, since their extreme maneuverability limitations would just mean they would be too much trouble to reload once out of ammo. People would simply abandon them, rather than drive over to a vehicle ammo dump. If they didn't, opponents would simply stake out the ammo spots, taking out defenseless vehicles like lions stalking antelope at a water hole.

[Xyx]

Yes, less "In your face" combat and people leaning more towards long-range hitscan weapons they can reload at a quite safe place.
Must you naively assume that reloading only serves to nerf weapons? The resulting rebalancing could result in a faster rate of fire to compensate for the time spent reloading, for example. Especially for the up close & personal weapons.

More variety and the same bodycount per second. Why the objections?

[DX-GAME]

Balance..

Should all the wepons balance to each other, or should the weapons balance out vs another weapon in particular?

To me, all weapons should have thier own strenghts and weaknesses. They should not balance out across the field, not to each other. Thats how you got the nonsense that was UT2kX.

IMO, skill makes balance, not nerfing weapons cuz jonney crybaby gets his butt kicked every time by a certain weapon. If the learning curb is too high, not my problem. I dont spend hours playing a game so some noob can come in and say its too hard to play vs me.

Back in the day, people never cried about hitscan. It was always splash. Now its hitscan cuz UTComp and hitsounds rule the servers.

IMO, Epic, make the game and leave all the sissyboy crybaby mofos to either play, mod, or friggin leave. Leave mods as mods and default as default and never the two shall meet except on a MOD server.

You guys are so fond of saying that this is Unreal!
STFU and play the game Epic makes then. Im disgusted at what UT2004 turned into because of player input. Where is it now? Less players than UT. This, along with Quake just goes to show players dont know WTF they are talking about.

Let Epic design the game.

[intentsly]

You guys are so fond of saying that this is Unreal!
STFU and play the game Epic makes then. Im disgusted at what UT2004 turned into because of player input. Where is it now? Less players than UT. This, along with Quake just goes to show players dont know WTF they are talking about.

Let Epic design the game.

So, what you are saying is that players should have no say in what they would like to see in a game (the ones who are spending their money on it). Thats an ok opinion to have, to a point, but to blame player input for a bad game that the players themselves did NOT make doesn't seem right. Player input should have some checks and balances, which (if what you say is true) 2kx developers must have failed to figure out (not the players). Players (don't forget the developers are players as well) are dreamers and we all have ideas ..just like opinions. Our opinions do not always appeal to everyone, just like recent games that were disappointing for one reason or another. Basically, you can't please everyone, especially ones who shoot down others in posts without true justification.
~
That said, I too was disappointed by recent games and the 2kx series. I play UT99 (UT1 or whatever) exclusively. My 2k3+4 cd's are collecting dust, but I don't blame players for that...
~
I think Epic wants input, so they don't come up short or miss/neglect anything that would hurt the experience of the game.
~
So many ideas, as you mentioned, are for mods and mutators. You'll hear people begging for their idea to be a default because then they don't have to create it nor have someone else create it.
~
Some ideas here I'm sure bring something to the table for Epic to munch on, if not now then perhaps later.
~
Epic is good at creating games, its their strength. Which would indicate that they also know how to sift/filter out ideas that are not worth consideration.
~
Proof of how well they do this this time, shall come not soon enough ;)

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[DX-GAME]

I believe a game should rise and fall on its own merit. Im one of the few that liked 2k3, and though 2k4 was a bad attempt to please the masses. Of course it failed. 2k3 failed on its own merit. 2k4 failed because of player input.

As always with this series, the mods have kept it alive. Thats the good thing. However, default should be default.

[Miko]

someone mentioned this once. UT04 didn't fail because of it being bad but because too many people complained about the game instead of playing it. If i remember I "Think" fuegerstef said that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[intentsly]

Must you naively assume that reloading only serves to nerf weapons? The resulting rebalancing could result in a faster rate of fire to compensate for the time spent reloading, for example. Especially for the up close & personal weapons.

More variety and the same bodycount per second. Why the objections?

Perhaps, its just that people don't want rebalancing, a higher rate of fire nor bother with reloading, as a default.
~
This thread really should have been titled "Reloading: a Default, Mutator or Mod?". This is what its really all about isn't it? Reloading seems more of something people create mods for already doesn't it?
~
I think the influence of more realistic games are creeping into player's minds and making them forget (or they may not even know) what UT gameplay is about. Its understandable that players would want more of what they got used to in other FPS's, but I feel they should just keep an open mind about it all. If they don't like the UT defaults then most certainly they can go to servers that have this sort of option/mod enabled.

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[intentsly]

I believe a game should rise and fall on its own merit. Im one of the few that liked 2k3, and though 2k4 was a bad attempt to please the masses. Of course it failed. 2k3 failed on its own merit. 2k4 failed because of player input.

As always with this series, the mods have kept it alive. Thats the good thing. However, default should be default.

Again you blame players for something they made suggestions to, but did not code the final product.
~
If anything, Epic didn't listen hard enough during the making of 2k4, or perhaps didn't listen to a broad enough audience. This time it seems as though they are 'getting it'.
~
UT99'ers didn't cry about 2k4, they just got frustrated and abandoned 2k4 for what was hoped for and not brought forth. It was like Epic thought they could either 'fool' us or just thought we'd "STFU" as you say and play their game. The server numbers gave them a nice big body slam of a reality check.
~
It just makes sense for Epic to listen to what the community is hungry for, otherwise they'll be the ones hungry. Again, they (EPIC) have to sift through the chaff (not so good ideas) to find the good nuggets (the good ideas). It is who gathers and processes the nuggets that create the final product. It is not the ones that purely make suggestions.

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[DX-GAME]

See, at least in my case, that was wrong. I liked the game. Its the mods that killed it for me, the mods that became standard as an attempt to make the game something it wasnt. UT2kx wasnt ment to be UT. The maps were supposed to be dark, the players smaller and harder to see. it was supposed to be more challenging and different with the same theme. They never offerd you another UT99, but perhaps something new, different and better. I have news for you. There will never be another UT99, so get over it.

Its when every time I tried to join a server it was UTComp that I started to get tired of it. Every time I wanted to come back, I saw the standards being reduced with mods, candy arse nerfs, and dumb ideas like sniper smoke puffs.

Unreal, UT, UT2k3/4. Epic knows how to make good games without players butting in. Its when they are foolish enough to listen that the games get worse. Thats what they allow mods for, and people are more than welcome to it. I enjoy them myself. But sometimes, I just want to play the game and shouldnt have to go looking for it.

What game are you trying to play?
Epic vision, or your own?
From there you should have exactly three choices.
Mod it, or develop your own game, or go play another.
But as I said before, default should be default.

[Devastator]

someone mentioned this once. UT04 didn't fail because of it being bad but because too many people complained about the game instead of playing it. If i remember I "Think" fuegerstef said that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hal has it as a sig :)

[fuegerstef]

Must you naively assume that reloading only serves to nerf weapons? The resulting rebalancing could result in a faster rate of fire to compensate for the time spent reloading, for example. Especially for the up close & personal weapons.

More variety and the same bodycount per second. Why the objections?

Because reloading PAUSES the ability to fire for a longer period than now. No matter how high the damage dealt in between is. So people will still stay far away to reload their hitscans.

To me variety would be be if more weapons are used. Not as it is now or even more hitscan dominant. And with UT gameplay this is NOT achieved by adding reload.

[Kronos]

Reloading in UT would change the game play drastically and it would be a game not of my likes. This thread is going no where and I demand it to be closed.

[durtytarget]

Reloading in UT would change the game play drastically and it would be a game not of my likes. This thread is going no where and I demand it to be closed.

Exactly. And I demand a close on this.

[Jonny]

IMO, skill makes balance, not nerfing weapons cuz jonney crybaby gets his butt kicked every time by a certain weapon.
Back in the day, people never cried about hitscan.

Oi! Careful where you point that thing. However i do agree with some of your points, i love the fact that people can contribute to UT2004 and expand it's life considerably by creating maps for existing gametypes, or creating mods such as new games and weapons. However sometimes i feel there should be some kind of 'quality check' or vote from the admin of sites that host these uploads to prevent the influx of mediocre maps/mods that overflow the servers today. UT2k4 servers are flooded with poor hash attemps at maps where the mapper has generally not bothered but just cherned out something to spawn on, and many mods out there can really annoy alot of people by just ruining what UT is supposed to be about. Utcomp especially annoys me because i think it takes away key elements of the game such as stealth and ambushes, making everyone glow like an arcade game for reasons i cannot understand.

Anyhow to the point, i totally disagree with reloading and think that starting this thread was a big mistake. The way Ut's weapons work is the heart of the franchise and puts it apart from games that focus on realism. It keeps the gameplay fast and the action fun and intense, and anyway - its set a long time in the future - who's to say ammunition isnt teleported into the weapon from the pack you puckup, then the weapon reloads after everyshot? (as seen in flack,rocket) This is a sci-fi shooter after all.

[Devastator]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1248096/Reload1copy.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1248096/Reloadcopy.jpg

[durtytarget]

LOL Brilliant ones.

[ziadoz]

I don't know about reloading but I hope they don't nerf all the weapons like they did in 2003/4. In the original UT all the weapons were spammy and had high rates of fire, and the only people whining where the ones getting pwned. :p

I'd like to see the weapons be more like this again personally. This whole toning things down to 'increase skill' is just putting off new players and detracting from what UT should be imo.

[durtytarget]

I don't know about reloading but I hope they don't nerf all the weapons like they did in 2003/4. In the original UT all the weapons were spammy and had high rates of fire, and the only people whining where the ones getting pwned. :p

I'd like to see the weapons be more like this again personally. This whole toning things down to 'increase skill' is just putting off new players and detracting from what UT should be imo.

I Disagree completely! I think Skill i a MASSIVE part of UT. Having high rates of fire and you would empty guns in less than 10 seconds. Experienced players would loose the need for great skills cause noobs will stand in ONE place and fire like mad knocking down those who are even dodging. It is like having mini berserk mode(the adrenaline power-up).

[StalwartUK]

No. Just no. It'll probably end up getting people into trouble more than anything esle and besides it wouldn't fit in with the Unreal universe.

[ziadoz]

I Disagree completely! I think Skill i a MASSIVE part of UT. Having high rates of fire and you would empty guns in less than 10 seconds. Experienced players would loose the need for great skills cause noobs will stand in ONE place and fire like mad knocking down those who are even dodging. It is like having mini berserk mode(the adrenaline power-up).

I disagree too. Your comment about experienced players doesn't hold true. The weapons in UT had high rates of fire and damage and the pro community flourished. What was great about UT was it was accessible to all players, partially because of the weapons and movement system (only double dodge), but I felt this was lost with UT2004.

At the end of the day skill will always separate good players from average ones, regardless of the weapons. I'd like to see them stop focusing relentlessly on the weapon toning, and work more on quality maps and models and tweaking the movement system more.

[Devastator]

I disagree too. Your comment about experienced players doesn't hold true. The weapons in UT had high rates of fire and damage and the pro community flourished. What was great about UT was it was accessible to all players, partially because of the weapons and movement system (only dodge), but I felt this was lost with UT2004.

At the end of the day skill will always separate good players from average ones, regardless of the weapons. I'd like to see them stop focusing relentlessly on the weapon toning, and work more on quality maps and models and tweaking the movement system more.

Fixed.....

[ziadoz]

Fixed.....

I meant only dodge. My bad. :p

[Kronos]

I hate this thread.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

then leave and don't come back!

[Malakai]

then leave and don't come back!

Thats what I said to the reloading feature in Unreal 2.:D
No really, reloads suck.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

Like said before, Unreal is different from UT, slower paced, more goal oriented.

[Malakai]

Not Unreal 1. Unreal 1 is very fast paced, and has mostly the same weapons we know and love today, without reloads. Also, it gave birth to the UT series, so it isn't that different.

[Boksha]

Like said before, Unreal is different from UT, slower paced, more goal oriented. Actually the original Unreal wasn't much slower than UT.

[intentsly]

See, at least in my case, that was wrong. I liked the game. Its the mods that killed it for me, the mods that became standard as an attempt to make the game something it wasnt. UT2kx wasnt ment to be UT. The maps were supposed to be dark, the players smaller and harder to see. it was supposed to be more challenging and different with the same theme. They never offerd you another UT99, but perhaps something new, different and better. I have news for you. There will never be another UT99, so get over it.

Its when every time I tried to join a server it was UTComp that I started to get tired of it. Every time I wanted to come back, I saw the standards being reduced with mods, candy arse nerfs, and dumb ideas like sniper smoke puffs.

Unreal, UT, UT2k3/4. Epic knows how to make good games without players butting in. Its when they are foolish enough to listen that the games get worse. Thats what they allow mods for, and people are more than welcome to it. I enjoy them myself. But sometimes, I just want to play the game and shouldnt have to go looking for it.

What game are you trying to play?
Epic vision, or your own?
From there you should have exactly three choices.
Mod it, or develop your own game, or go play another.
But as I said before, default should be default.

First, thank you for agreeing with my prior post. The fact is you only really had issue with the mods and not player input into the making of 2k4.
~
Secondly, server listings should be made more filterable so you could avoid the mods you had issues with. This would be an Epic issue that player input could assist with.
~
Thirdly,
You keep talking about 2k4 like it matters to me LOL Anyway, all UT99'ers know its not going to be reincarnated, but there are features of it we want to see in a new UT. So, you're not informing UT99 fans of anything we haven't been bashed about before. 2k4 did not, in UT99 fan opinions, give everyone something better, quite the opposite. New did not equal better, for us.
~
I've said this over and over again in many a thread:
Let the modding community do their work on the multitude of suggestions that don't get fulfilled by Epic. Reloading is one of those things. The thing is that you'll have to hope for a better way to filter servers in the future to sort out who's got what. Not an easy task when people make variations of variations of mods etc..Good Luck!

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[theeDEATHMASTER]

Not Unreal 1. Unreal 1 is very fast paced, and has mostly the same weapons we know and love today, without reloads. Also, it gave birth to the UT series, so it isn't that different.
Yeah, mean't Unreal 2

[Xyx]

Because reloading PAUSES the ability to fire for a longer period than now. No matter how high the damage dealt in between is. So people will still stay far away to reload their hitscans.
Follow through on that conclusion. That would, of course, be taken into account when rebalancing.


[variety] with UT gameplay this is NOT achieved by adding reload.
Highly subjective.

[fuegerstef]

Follow through on that conclusion. That would, of course, be taken into account when rebalancing.

Can you be more precise what you mean? All I read from you is some obscure "rebalancing" that never gets concrete to prove my point wrong that forced longer pauses will keep players (that have a clue about the game) more distant from each other to prevent being close to an armed player while having to reload.

[Drintion]

The only time "reloading" was a good idea, is when it included that fun little "active reload" mini-game that Gears had. But with UT3's much faster paced game play, they should never include anything that deals with reloading.

[Malakai]

Actually, active reload with the sniper is the worst idea Epic ever had.

[Farseer]

The only time "reloading" was a good idea, is when it included that fun little "active reload" mini-game that Gears had.
Not really, there are games which I can't imagine without reloading. But the thing is that UT can be (probably) called the fastest FPS and there's no place for reloading here - it would require a complete change in gameplay's pace, not to mention another keybind that players would have to be aware of. Reloading should be done when not involved in a firefight (so auto-reload is useless in most games, because you rarely reload after emptying the clip) and in UT there's no such thing as "not involved in a firefight". Well, unless we will have to spend most of the time travelling across huge maps in UT3.

[intentsly]

Follow through on that conclusion. That would, of course, be taken into account when rebalancing.


Highly subjective.

What are you on about? Why can't you see that it doesn't have to be part of the final release? MOD bloody MOD I say! The mod can work on the rebalancing, why does it Need to be in the final release?
~
Reloading really only has its place in 'tam like' scenarios that are looking to be more realistic, IMO.
~
On an on, the carcass's been kicked an burned a few times o'er noo Captain!

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[ProjectUT]

We can simply MUTATE that silly option out, so it would be pointless to change it now.

In fact, I wish the 'WOULD YOU LIKE....' or 'SHOULD UT3 HAVE...' threads stop. Let them finish this thing so we can enjoy it sooner, rather then later.
I think we're slowing the release date with all these IDEA threads, IMO.

[Loco_br]

Futuristic weapons dont need reload ... they have a automatic reload system ...

UT without reload please.

[durtytarget]

We can simply MUTATE that silly option out, so it would be pointless to change it now.

In fact, I wish the 'WOULD YOU LIKE....' or 'SHOULD UT3 HAVE...' threads stop. Let them finish this thing so we can enjoy it sooner, rather then later.
I think we're slowing the release date with all these IDEA threads, IMO.

Yeah!...Exactly what he said!

[intentsly]

Yeah!...Exactly what he said!

We don't have the game yet, we are a community, and so, we should all just sit on our thumbs and take spin? They sift through these ideas I'm sure, but they're not gonna stumble on a pebble and come to a grinding halt over them. It'd have to be a pretty big idea to slow things down at this point. If they're looking to release this by XMA$, they really don't have a lot of time to be messing about. Thats what patches and expansion packs are for! :)

Intentsly
(UT99~ [--]Torturia)

[Xyx]

Can you be more precise what you mean?
You say having to reload will motivate players to keep their distance, so they'll be comparatively safe when their weapon runs empty, right?. However, your opponent is facing the same problem, and you'll want to be in his face when his weapon runs dry. So that sort of cancels each other out. And if that is not enough to keep people close to each other, the close range weapons can simply be given a little boost to make them attractive again.

[fuegerstef]

You say having to reload will motivate players to keep their distance, so they'll be comparatively safe when their weapon runs empty, right?. However, your opponent is facing the same problem, and you'll want to be in his face when his weapon runs dry. So that sort of cancels each other out. And if that is not enough to keep people close to each other, the close range weapons can simply be given a little boost to make them attractive again.

Oh, I see, you mean you want a game that has nothing to do with the usual UT-Style gameplay but has a different but not more variable gamestyle.

[Xyx]

You really go out of your way to misinterpret, don't you?

[fuegerstef]

You really go out of your way to misinterpret, don't you?

How will the above add more variety?

But, TBH, 83% is a good sign that reloading won't be in.

[Naklajat]

83% is a good sign that reloading won't be in.
You could have a poll on these forums about whether or not to have flying pink elephants you can ride that shoot rainbows out their trunks that make flowers grow on everything, and have a 100% yes vote, but that would not make it magically appear in the game.

The fact that the name of the game is 'Unreal Tournament 3' is a pretty damn good sign you will not be reloading your flak cannon every 8 shots.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

The fact that the name of the game is 'Unreal Tournament 3' ...

We don't accept the "Unreal Argument" around here.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I think this might be more of an issue if people ran out of ammo more often. How often does that ever happen? Almost never, and if it does, you've always got another weapon.

Reloading is the sort of thing games put in to aid when ammo management is important because there's only so much to go around, and that's it. In short, SP games. I've got nothing against the idea in principle, but why bother with a complexity that so rarely comes up? If manual reloading were a part of the game, I can't see how it would effect anything unless it took a significant amount of time and happened more often than running out of ammunition does currently (as it would, since you wouldn't restock your magazines just by running over the pickups).

The net result would be more irritating than enjoyable, I think, and I usually love complicating factors that you've got to keep track of in the game. But a well-implemented mutator, with custom animations and what have you, would be great!

[fuegerstef]

You could have a poll on these forums about whether or not to have flying pink elephants you can ride that shoot rainbows out their trunks that make flowers grow on everything, and have a 100% yes vote, but that would not make it magically appear in the game.

You are right. On other UT related forums it would be between 99% and 100% percent.

[Xyx]

83% is a good sign that reloading won't be in.
Epic does not work by democracy. If they did, UT3 would be just a demo with FaceClassic, Rankin and AS-Lev14th@nrace-SE-LE-]|[. That is all the majority seems to want.

I do not expect a reloading system in UT3. I am merely pointing out that several popular shooter franchises have succesfully improved their game by implementing a reloading system. Even the vaunted Quake series, which is about as close as you can get to UT's niche.

If Epic simply produces an UT1 with updated graphics, I certainly hope to find the time to mod a reloading system myself. Then you can personally assist me in rebalancing the weapons.


How will the above add more variety?
I explained quite a few times already, but you seem to persist in intentionally misinterpreting anything I post. I am here for intelligent and polite discourse. If you persist in your corny and insipid manner, I see no point in continuing this conversation.

[DOMINATOR 978]

I think reloading in Online games is a good idea. But not for Unreal Tournament.

Example: The Flak Cannon. The Flak Cannon is a mixture of the old fashioned Welrod (a single shot weapon from WWII) and a grenade launcher. The Welrod facinating its primary fire, and the grenade launcher it's secondary. Now, as of right now, the Flak Cannon is one of the best, if not THE best, UT weapon. The only weapon I can see surpassing it, would be the Rocket Launcher or Redeemer. Both Med-Long range weapons. As for short-med range, the Flak Cannon surpasses all. With a reloading mechanism established into the game, you make the Flak Cannon waaay slower. The only reasonably accurate way to reload it would be a One-Shot, reload mechanism. Not a good idea for a semi-fast weapon.

Example 2: Enforcers. For the Enforcers it's not a bad idea actually, but this would have to be the ONLY weapon you'd need to reload for, everything else just wouldn't make sense to reload considering the UT franchise of NOT reloading. Even the enforcers would be a long stretch for some of the Long-Time-Hardcore UT fans/players.

[Nietzsche]

I was just revisiting this thread, when it hit me: G A S S T A T I O N S; I mean, dude, this will be so awesome, think about it, vehicles need fuel, right? So after a while they should need new fuel, that's why we really should have gas stations in the game, it will make for a more complex experience (after all you have to make sure that you will reach the next station before you run out of fuel) and it will be great fun to refuel a levi, lol! How awesome will that be, mmh? I mean the flap of the levi should be all high and stuff, so you would have to double jump onto the levi to get there, dude, it will kick ass!!

If enough people agree, I will open a new thread with a poll!!!

*edit: ofc I am also pro reloading EVERYTHING!

[Nietzsche]

Just had a discussion in the ons-cup channel and EVERYONE agreed that this would be great, here is the discussion:

[13:26] <lieb|nietzsche> http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=551865&page=5 if you want gas stations too pls make a post
[13:28] * Joins: |FAT|Trekker (~trekker1@cmnz-4db37bcf.pool.einsundeins.de)
[13:32] <[CB]DeSPerado> ofc not
[13:32] <[CB]DeSPerado> :D
[13:33] <lieb|nietzsche> 0o
[13:33] <lieb|nietzsche> but they will be awesome!
[13:33] <lieb|nietzsche> dude!
[13:36] <{Ez0}SpiRiT^> that last comment is pretty cool
[13:36] <{Ez0}SpiRiT^> on that site i mean
[13:36] * Quits: |FAT|Punisher (Punisher@FATPunisher.users.quakenet.org) (Quit)
[13:38] <lieb|nietzsche> ofc it is :)
[13:40] <{Ez0}SpiRiT^> omfg gas stations :X
[13:41] <{Ez0}SpiRiT^> how can vehicle go out of fuel when its destroyed and then respawned again thats totally mad :D
[13:41] <{Ez0}SpiRiT^> it would only slow the game even more than disableing Ddodge
[13:42] <lieb|nietzsche> idd the respawining makes no sense either, so vehicles should have a limp-home mode (you drive very slowly and cant use weapons) so that they can be driven to the gas stations which will have a garage where vehicles get repaired
[13:43] <lieb|nietzsche> it will be A W E S O M E!
[13:43] <grsm> no
[13:44] <lieb|nietzsche> maybe people could even play as a third team "gas station personal" or something, gas stations would be neutral and the personal-players would get score for repairing and refueling vehicles
[13:44] <lieb|nietzsche> would be great!
[13:47] <grsm> ??
[13:47] <grsm> what is it about?

:)

[The G-Man]

I was just revisiting this thread, when it hit me: G A S S T A T I O N S; I mean, dude, this will be so awesome, think about it, vehicles need fuel, right? So after a while they should need new fuel, that's why we really should have gas stations in the game, it will make for a more complex experience (after all you have to make sure that you will reach the next station before you run out of fuel) and it will be great fun to refuel a levi, lol! How awesome will that be, mmh? I mean the flap of the levi should be all high and stuff, so you would have to double jump onto the levi to get there, dude, it will kick ass!!

If enough people agree, I will open a new thread with a poll!!!

*edit: ofc I am also pro reloading EVERYTHING!
No, that would not work. UT is not some Formula 1 racing game, nor is it GTA. It's a fast-paced futuristic shooter. Launch UT2004 and start up ONS-Severance or ONS-RedPlanet, hop into a Leviathan and tell me how long it lasts. Try the same thing with a fully-tanked real-life car. Exactly. On top of that, considering that these games are set several hundred years in the future, I think we can safely assume that the vehicles use some more efficient fuel than today. When you're playing, no vehicles will last for several hours. No match should even last that long; that'd be a poorly designed game. Even if there was this huge tournament or something similar designed to last for hours, implementing something as insignificant as a fuel system when it'll only be needed once every two thousandth Warfare match is absurd. Besides, how many players do you think would even bother fuelling up their vehicles? By the time they run out of fuel, their vehicles are probably so battered up that they'd be better off hopping out and grabbing another one, or simply go on foot.

Also, merely copypasting a conversation with your friends agreeing that "O M G G A S S T A T I O N S W I L L B E A W E S O M E ! ! ! ! ! ! !" and repeating how AWESOMELY COOL it would be isn't going to help your case.

Bottom line is that, dude, it will not "kick ass!!".

Edit: Also, if you proof-read your conversation carefully, you'll notice that not everyone agreed. Just thought I'd point out, since you seemed a bit too excited, writing "EVERYONE" with all caps and stuff. And it wasn't so much a 'discussion' as you screaming at everyone that it would be fantastically revolutionising. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it wouldn't work in a game like UT.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I think this entire post is sarcasm, actually.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

lol gas station personnel