vote:Lightning Gun???

[ShredPrince]

Ok Lighting Gun or Sniper guys????

I personally go with Lighning gun, and am quite pissed that it is being removed form 07.

I say let us have both!!!!

[Scylla]

It would have been better if you made this a poll...

LG FTW!

Edit: Ok, you've made it a poll now.

[ShredPrince]

I did, I had to dso it after the thread was created.

[»{EID}«-Silenoz]

i realy dont care what they put in. i can shoot people with what ever weapon i have at the time.

[Boksha]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

[MonsOlympus]

Where's the, both give mappers choice like 2k4, option? :D

[sure]

I vote ripper.

[Raynor]

Sniper4life!!1

[»{EID}«-Silenoz]

That isnt a option lol.:D

[DeathByDribbling]

Zapping people so they light up like an xmas tree just more satisfying then firing a little bullet that produces a little puff of blood in the distance.

[ShredPrince]

Where's the, both give mappers choice like 2k4, option? :D

Well it's there sorta.

[A_Spec]

This is what, the 10th time we had this conversation?

[»{EID}«-Silenoz]

Yes! and now we can vote again!!:D

[ShredPrince]

^yup...LOL

[Selerox]

Ltg > SR.

One has character, one doesn't. Simple as that.

[Slainchild]

Voted to keep the Ltg. :)

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't the ltg. Something similar to it would be welcome enough, the basic sniper rifle would be boring...

[2th]

Voted to keep the Ltg. :)

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't the ltg. Something similar to it would be welcome enough, the basic sniper rifle would be boring...


agreed. whatever the weapon is it needs a very visible tracer.

[Schemen]

why not both?
but i like the lightning gun more, because you can see from where it's been fired. but please not this random "spalsh damage" again, it sucks ;) i hate random ^^

[Boksha]

One has character, one doesn't. Simple as that. If by "has character", you mean "looks like prop from a clumsy Star Wars imitation", I completely agree.

Whoah. Deja vu.

Seriously tho', the LG has about as much character as Steven Seagal playing a secret agent who has to take out an evil crime lord. Practically every sci-fi-ish game has a gun that shoots lightning bolts, not to mention it looks very similar to the Q3a railgun; the sniper rifles in Unreal, Unreal2 and UT felt unique though.

[CaptainZap]

With the SR in UT99, all I used to do is look where the bullets hit on the wall. Most of the time that game me a general direction to look. Was part of the fun actually.

Oh... SR>Ltg :D

To each their own. Although it would be nice if they included both weapons. Meh, that's my 2 cents.

[Flak]

I'm a huge fan of the UT sniper rifle, even if the ROF was too fast. I'm hoping for a sniper rifle that makes people forget about the LG. ;)

[Kronos]

I dont think the sniper will look anything near 20th century in 2k7, my guess is it will probably look like the UC2 sniper while also shooting a red beam with some low opacity.

[Apathy]

Funny thing about this little debate is the fact that no one could stand the LG when it was first introduced in UT2003.. Complaint, on top of complaint that the LG ruined the game, it sucked, ruined the concept of "sniping" etc. I'm sure it was the reason the Sniper Rifle made a return in UT2004. Put a smoke puff there to even it out, because the LG had a lightning trail on it.
I would love it if they used a prettier version of the UC2 sniper rifle (like the RL, Flak, and Shock), Give it around same stats as the LG, and put a simular tracer to the UC2 one, and I'd be happy.

[bulldog]

speed of reload > picking either

get the reload speed back to UT standard and I won't care which is in.

(isn't it too late tho' because they have already indicated that LG is out?)

[AntiMatter]

I need a good visible tracer on my sniper weapon, cant hit anything without one.

[Selerox]

TBH, if it wasn't the Ltg, then I'd rather it be something else entirely.

Sniper Rifles have been done. In many games. It's cliche and dull as hell.

[DaXx]

LG please. The Sniper isnt bad but the LG fits more in Unreal Tournament.

[Malkav]

Lighting gun forever, but Epic give us both weapons, LG and Sniper, I don't know what's the problem with this

[N1ghtmare]

Funny thing about this little debate is the fact that no one could stand the LG when it was first introduced in UT2003.. Complaint, on top of complaint that the LG ruined the game, it sucked, ruined the concept of "sniping" etc. I'm sure it was the reason the Sniper Rifle made a return in UT2004. Put a smoke puff there to even it out, because the LG had a lightning trail on it.
I would love it if they used a prettier version of the UC2 sniper rifle (like the RL, Flak, and Shock), Give it around same stats as the LG, and put a simular tracer to the UC2 one, and I'd be happy.

When UT2003 came all we had to compare was it to the UT99 rifle, but when UT2004 came It was much better than the "classic" sniper.

[DrDoomed]

Ut99 sniper or LG i dont mind as long as they switch the same speed as the rest of the weps.

[CounterZeus]

I voted for the sniper rifle. the lightning gun is just another high-tech weapon, while the sniper rifle has a whole history and really exists, it just has my love :)

[Centurion]

Why don't give us both!

Some like blonds and some like brunette's :)

[fuegerstef]

...a sniper rifle that makes people forget about the LG. ;)

Will never happen with me.

My artist has already made sketches for a badass LG that will be released as mutator in case EPIC makes the mistake of adding a poor sniperrifle without adding a LG or a PROPER Sniperrifle...

probably we get:
a non-hitscan tracer on a single-shot hitscan weapon (what gameplay designer had this idead, ffs???? Oh wait, it were the moaning fans who hate proper gameplay), with a smoke puff to hide this poor rifle. With an almonst not visible effect if you hit a person and with a sound like a popping ballon that was only filled with air 50%.

[DavenH]

I don't think the LG belonged in UT2004. They should come up with a futuristic version of the sniper rifle that still keeps its roots.

Yeah, I'm all for a futuristic sniper, as long as it has a powerful sound. The 2004 one sounded like a cap gun...

As for the trailing, there could be a fine trail of smoke from the projectile, where it 'burned the air' or suchlike.

[McFly2000]

Whatever it will be, I hope it's rate of fire will be 1.0 second - same as instagib rifle.

UT99 sniper reloaded too fast. LG and sniper in Ut2k4 reloads too slow.

[{DUB}VANISH-iceman]

oke maybe the lightning is more powerfull BUT the sniper doesn't show exacly where you at.

[Tarball|UTzone]

If i had the choice i would stay with UT99 Sniper Rifle.
But i also like the new Sniper :)
Sure the LG makes more Damage and Splash Damage but it also shows where the Sniper(Player) is Located.

[Badger]

Sniper Rifle is the True "snipers" choice as Its hard to determine where the shots are coming from. The lightning gun is a give away to the snipers location as you can see the direction of the shot. The lightning gun is so often used in regular combat (i.e. running about not just sitting and sniping) that it has become something other than a meer snipers tool. I prefer the lightning gun , but i wish they could just include both.

[Kronos]

When UT2003 came all we had to compare was it to the UT99 rifle, but when UT2004 came It was much better than the "classic" sniper.

The classic sniper rifle and the sniper in ut99 i think felt completely different, and did completely diff damage.

[EntropicLqd]

....a non-hitscan tracer on a single-shot hitscan weapon....
It's the UT instagib rifle isn't it :)

[wartex]

When UT2003 came all we had to compare was it to the UT99 rifle, but when UT2004 came It was much better than the "classic" sniper.

I thought it was worse, though more balanced than the ut99 one.

I like the sniper rifle from UT99 and UC2, and I hope they make it like one of those (as long as it's something that's not like 2k4 bleh :D).

But to have both the LG and SR would really be great, some maps had SR, some LG, like in 2k4. I hope Epic will add the LG in a patch which can be enabled with a mutator or just a simple server setting that could be switched "on" or "off"´(people should be able to call votes for it)... or something.

[AFG34]

both, but if i had to pick one, it wud be LG, sniper is only good for faceclassic and its for noobs, because u cant even cross half if u playin with competitive ppl.

[Ender]

The results of this poll are pleasing to me, I only hope that the number of votes increases to above the 10,000 range, and the ratio of votes stays the same (More than double the votes for the lg than against it). On top of that, I hope that says something and the devs seriously consider it.

[Gregori]

Both please! Or a least a new sniper weapon.

The LG does need a visual and audio upgrade, the bolt on the one in UT2kx looked pathetic, its lightining it should light up the whole room and practically blind you with the brightness. The sound was to weak also, it should have been louer like a crack of thunder!

[icewind]

I would prefer a UT99 style sniper rifle, but we all know that's never happening again :rolleyes:.

So basically if I had a choice it'd go like this:

UT99 sniper > LG > anything > UT2004 sniper

[{SM}LeadSniper]

i love the SR it is simple, elegant, and hard to trace. granted the LG might be more powerful but that trail will turn any inexperianced camper into fresh meat. (im not called lead sniper for nothing rofl)

[N1ghtmare]

Not having a trace doesnt help the gameplay. UT us a fast moving game, and the lightning gun helped by showing where the sniper is so he had to move. It actually helps new players find other campers so the learning curve lessens.

[{SM}LeadSniper]

the LG is good in DM for the exact reason you said. however the SR is better suited for assult where when yout defending the more chaos you can stir up in the attacking side the better where as the LG the attackers would know immeaditly where you are and you'd be boned, you get what im saying?

[PanzerIV]

SCREW the gay LG. Stupid lame hitscan that ruined UT2004. Shock Rifle is way enough. It's already overpowered and overused so no need to have 2 weapon like that. Sniper was perfect.

They should focus mostly on close-combat fights or medium range at MOST. I'm sick of UT2004's long range fights and everyone's cowardness.:mad:

[Gregori]

Sniper was way worse than the LG, its invisible, faster and deadlier form of hitscan. The only thing that saved it was that UT99's palyer/movement scale made it more balanced with projectile weapons.

[SHAGBOT]

i like both weapons so i voted to keep both. if it came down to only one of the two i'd say the sniper rifle, because when you're sniping you don't want to be seen and the lightning gun gives away your position. i don't really mind though because it's fun getting shot at in all of the chaos that is unreal tournament! besides i'd get killed quickly either way. they should add night vision and heat vision to scopes or else just give you some goggle things. that way a sniper with a sniper rifle wouldn't be as hard to spot.

[Ward]

I don't really care, but if I had to choose I'd prefer the Sniper Rifle over the LG.

[MonsOlympus]

Ummm bump perhaps, lotsa polls atm :p

[BrokenRythm]

Lightning Gun + Sniper Rifle = Lightning Rifle....................end of discussion

[Boksha]

On top of that, I hope that says something and the devs seriously consider it. All it says is that a lot of people are idiots and prefer the status quo, or still believe that because the sniper in UT2004 had worse stats, UT2007 will have a weaker sniper weapon if Epic puts a sniper rifle skin on it instead of an LG skin.

If there was a vote on whether to keep the LG or put the sniper back in right after the UT2003 demo came out, the results would've been the opposite of this one.


Lightning Gun + Sniper Rifle = Lightning Rifle....................end of discussion If it's all the same, I'd rather have a Sniper Gun then.

[BrokenRythm]

Exactly, so why does it matter what the gun looks like as long as the stats are mediary?

But honestly, if the stats of both guns were identical, who WOULDN'T prefer the Lightning Gun? Every FPS and their mother has a "sniper rifle", NOBODY has a Lightning like UT. I just prefer to see a bolt of lightning come out of the gun instead of a boring ass bullet.....

[Boksha]

NOBODY has a Lightning like UT. Quake1, Quake3, SiN, RtCW even (and that's a WW2 game)
I'm sure there are others.
The concept of a lightning gun in a sci-fi game isn't exactly new. UT2004 just made it highly illogical by making it a single shot weapon. (which, incidentally, was called "the rail" by all the Q3a players it attracted)

As for your question as to who would prefer the Sniper Rifle to the Lightning Gun... here's one. :p
I just feel it fits the dark, bloody theme of UT much better than a Star Trek/Gate/Wars style lightning gun which seems to be sci-fi'd just because it's a sci-fi game.

[BrokenRythm]

yea i know someone was gonna say Quake, but I guess I didn't word my response properly. I guess I meant to say I prefer the LG of UT to others. Which don't really do a Lightning Gun justice.

I know what you're saying but I'm just sick of the "sniper rifle" in every single game i play. And isn't UT in the future? It most certainly isn't in the past. So whats the big deal when alien beings have the technology to shoot lightning out of a gun and use it as a very deadly weapon?

I just really don't think a boring old sniper rifle fits with the other weapons of the UT universe.

Flak cannon, Bio rifle, Shock rifle, and then a current day sniper rifle? Sorry buts thats my opinion and to me it just doesn't fit.

[Scylla]

NOBODY has a Lightning like UT. Quake1, Quake3, SiN, RtCW even (and that's a WW2 game)
I'm sure there are others.

Actually, Quake 1 and 3 (never heard of the other 2 lol) have a different lightning gun. BrokenRythm said nobody has a lighting like UT's. The lightning gun in quake 1 and 3 are short-ranged rapid-fire weapons.

[N1ghtmare]

Ive seen a sniper, and ive seen a railgun in various other games. I have NEVER seen a Lightning gun. People say "well LG is like its from star wars or a sci-fi movie". UT is a sci-fi shooter too...

To clarify up my other statement, Everyone compared the UT2003 LG to the UT99 SR and chose the UT99 SR. When the CLassic sniper came out, People saw what a sniper rifle fealt like in the UT2004 series and chose the LG as the better.

Their needs to be a way to tell where the sniper is. Without it, new players wont be able to tell where the sniper is, and get frustrated easier. The SR in UT2004 also made it more defensive.

[Boksha]

yea i know someone was gonna say Quake, but I guess I didn't word my response properly. I guess I meant to say I prefer the LG of UT to others. Which don't really do a Lightning Gun justice. And UT2k3/4 does? The lightning guns in the Quake games at least do stuff that a regular weapon can't; the UT lightning gun is just a sniper rifle dressed up all pretty. If anything, it's a waste of a good concept. Or a mismatch of graphical scheme and functionality, at least.


I know what you're saying but I'm just sick of the "sniper rifle" in every single game i play. And isn't UT in the future? It most certainly isn't in the past. So whats the big deal when alien beings have the technology to shoot lightning out of a gun and use it as a very deadly weapon? Because it's much more likely that, for sniping purposes, those aliens would use some super advanced bullet or light based weapon.
I just feel the LG is much less plausible than the other weapons. Both the shockrifle and the linkgun have to be energy weapons because they offer functionality a regular weapon can't, but like I said before the LG feels like it was sci-fi'd for no reason besides "OMG THIS IS THE FUTURE!".


Flak cannon, Bio rifle, Shock rifle, and then a current day sniper rifle? Sorry buts thats my opinion and to me it just doesn't fit. That sounds a lot worse than pistols, minigun, sniper rifle. :p
Besides, I never said it has to be a current day sniper rifle. Make it a long range death ray like the ones on the darkwalker for all I care. But a Lightning based sniper weapon is just silly.


Ive seen a sniper, and ive seen a railgun in various other games. I have NEVER seen a Lightning gun. People say "well LG is like its from star wars or a sci-fi movie". UT is a sci-fi shooter too... Yes, and UT is distinctly NOT Star Wars. :p
Lightsabers and blasters have no place in UT either IMO.

[Gregori]

Yes, and UT is distinctly NOT Star Wars. :p
Lightsabers and blasters have no place in UT either IMO.


They've already got a shockrifle and a pulsegun ffs!

Though its worth noting that UT Weapons should always be a bit more edgy and gruesome than Star wars. UT is more like Aliens/Predator/Terminator and other adult Sci Fi films.

[Boksha]

They've already got a shockrifle and a pulsegun ffs! True, but those both have distinct advantages over regular weapons, so it's obvious why they were produced. The LG has nothing like that, kind of like the Blasters in Star Wars, which appeared to be far inferior to regular modern bullet weapons, flying slower and dealing less damage (no visible damage at all, in fact) so I find it very hard to believe such a weapon would exist in the future.

In Star Wars, the existance of the Blasters could be explained by it being a different universe alltogether, in a way even with different physics and materials. I've always felt Unreal and UT took place in a more realistic and, in a way, more cynical universe.

[Scylla]

In Star Wars, the existance of the Blasters could be explained by it being a different universe alltogether, in a way even with different physics and materials. I've always felt Unreal and UT took place in a more realistic and, in a way, more cynical universe.

Isn't star wars set in a galaxy far, far away? :p

[Boksha]

Isn't star wars set in a galaxy far, far away? :p Yes well, I've never seen anyone use The Force over here, nor have I ever seen Blaster Gas. :p
At any rate, Star Wars is not, like UT, set in a future version of our own world, where energy weapons are explained with advancements in science.

[BrokenRythm]

or light based weapon.

like a lightning gun?:confused:


Make it a long range death ray like the ones on the darkwalker for all I care.

like a lightning gun?:confused:

[Boksha]

like a lightning gun?:confused: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lightning
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=light
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ray

[Scylla]

Yes well, I've never seen anyone use The Force over here, nor have I ever seen Blaster Gas. :p
At any rate, Star Wars is not, like UT, set in a future version of our own world, where energy weapons are explained with advancements in science.

I was just being pesimistic (galaxy is different from universe).

[Gregori]

True, but those both have distinct advantages over regular weapons, so it's obvious why they were produced. The LG has nothing like that, kind of like the Blasters in Star Wars, which appeared to be far inferior to regular modern bullet weapons, flying slower and dealing less damage (no visible damage at all, in fact) so I find it very hard to believe such a weapon would exist in the future.

In Star Wars, the existance of the Blasters could be explained by it being a different universe alltogether, in a way even with different physics and materials. I've always felt Unreal and UT took place in a more realistic and, in a way, more cynical universe.


Maybe the Lightning Gun was an alien weapon that humans reverse engineered from stolen technology.

Or maybe the LG started out as an improvised weapon made from the parts of scavanged innards of ships in deep space, when crews ran out of ammo! Perhaps they aren't allowed carry weapons by the govement, just like how only the Samurai in Japan were allowed to carry weapons, not the peasants. so just like the peasants used their farm tools as weapons, so do these outer space crews with whatever they can find!

[TWD]

I'm all for a lightning gun but give it a better sound effect. The sissy thing goes tzcht! Lightning is supposed to go KABOOM! and then echo over the landscape!

[BrokenRythm]

LIGHTNING=the flash of light that accompanies an electric discharge

LIGHT=electromagnetic radiation to which the organs of sight react, ranging in wavelength from about 400 to 700 nm and propagated at a speed of 186,282 mi./sec (299,972 km/sec), considered variously as a wave, corpuscular, or quantum phenomenon.

RAY=the straight line normal to the wave front in the propagation of radiant energy. a stream of material particles all moving in the same straight line.

..................soooooooooo.........whats your point?

weapons?

As a weapon they are all a form of deadly EMR (electro-magnetic radiation)

so technically they are all the same

[fuegerstef]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lightning
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=light
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ray

Yep, a lot of people recently on this forum talk loosely about something without knowing much about it....


(I still disagree on the LG with you, though) :p

[Gregori]

I'm all for a lightning gun but give it a better sound effect. The sissy thing goes tzcht! Lightning is supposed to go KABOOM! and then echo over the landscape!

Yup! Exactly what I was thought about it.

LIghtining is around 5000 times brighter also, briefly though!

[blackout]

LIGHT= [...] and propagated at a speed of 186,282 mi./sec (299,972 km/sec) [...]there is an atmosphere in ut, so that velocity is pretty wrong.

[Boksha]

Gregori: so why, exactly, would this weapon be mass produced and used in an intergalactic tournament where obviously real weapons ARE allowed?


As a weapon they are all a form of deadly EMR (electro-magnetic radiation) Sorry, but last I checked electricity and electromagnetic radiation are NOT the same.
Try pointing a flashlight at a wall sometimes. Notice how light comes out and lights up the wall. Next, try pointing a battery at the wall. Notice the lack of lightning flying out.

edit:
LIGHTNING=the flash of light that accompanies an electric discharge It seems that this is the thing confusing you. Yes, it's true lightning emits light. That does NOT mean however that a tree exploding because of a lightning bolt does so because it's lit by the light of said lightning bolt.
Try pointing a flashlight at a tree. Notice how it does not explode. Now stand under a tree during a lightning storm. PLEASE try to stand under a tree during a lightning storm.

[Gregori]

there is an atmosphere in ut, so that velocity is pretty wrong.


They can all suffocate to death for all I care! :D

[blackout]

Sorry, but last I checked electricity and electromagnetic radiation are NOT the same.
Try pointing a flashlight at a wall sometimes. Notice how light comes out and lights up the wall. Next, try pointing a battery at the wall. Notice the lack of lightning flying out.depends... when there is soap on the battery and you can't hold it and it's moving, you actually got electromagnetic radiation.
(well, i doubt that this results in enough potential difference to produce a lightning ;))

[Gregori]

Gregori: so why, exactly, would this weapon be mass produced and used in an intergalactic tournament where obviously real weapons ARE allowed?






Because the impact hammer is improvised, the ripper is based on stole Skaarj technology, the GES Bio-Rifle is based on stolen Merc/Skaarj technology.
All REAL weapons exist today because some crazy mofo improvised a weapon from the enviroment, which was then refined and advanced till it was mass produced. Your thinking of the universe in extremely Modern Earth-centic way,
which doesn't make much sense in a place as big and diverse as the galaxy.

Remember that even the tournament in UT started of as an illegal event in deep spaces mining colonies far way from earth and civilisation. Who knows what crazy **** could have taking place there, considering the the lightyears of travel it takes between stars!

[BrokenRythm]

Gregori: so why, exactly, would this weapon be mass produced and used in an intergalactic tournament where obviously real weapons ARE allowed?

Sorry, but last I checked electricity and electromagnetic radiation are NOT the same.
Try pointing a flashlight at a wall sometimes. Notice how light comes out and lights up the wall. Next, try pointing a battery at the wall. Notice the lack of lightning flying out.

edit: It seems that this is the thing confusing you. Yes, it's true lightning emits light. That does NOT mean however that a tree exploding because of a lightning bolt does so because it's lit by the light of said lightning bolt.
Try pointing a flashlight at a tree. Notice how it does not explode. Now stand under a tree during a lightning storm. PLEASE try to stand under a tree during a lightning storm.


firstly, go watch the Discovery channel sometime. Lightning is not considered electricity.

second, those are some pretty horrible analogys. "Point a battery at a wall"...............WHAT?

I got an Idea for you. Let me point a real "lazer" at your testicles. Notice how not only they light up because of the light RADIATION, but they also melt quite easily because of super concentrated electrons and photons which generates HEAT. ......?

And whats with all this real life and star wars stuff? Comparing star wars weapons to UT weapons is a non-existant argument. Would you rather get hit with a sniper rifle and have a small chance of living, or a lightning gun and........have absolutely no chance of living? Sorry but I'm not arguing with you anymore. You prefer the SR, I prefer the LG. end.

[blackout]

considering the the lightyears of travel it takes between starshint: lightyears are not a unit for measuring time.

edit: there is no "lazer".

[BrokenRythm]

hint: lightyears are not a unit for measuring time.


there is an atmosphere in ut, so that velocity is pretty wrong.





Dude..................are you ****ing with us or what?

[blackout]

i am not trying to removed with you, i am trying to tell you that you shouldn't argue about physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics) when you don't have a clue about it.

[BrokenRythm]

ranging in wavelength from about 400 to 700 nm and propagated at a speed of 186,282 mi./sec (299,972 km/sec), considered variously as a wave, corpuscular, or quantum phenomenon.



there is an atmosphere in ut, so that velocity is pretty wrong.


please, please, please explain your reasoning

[blackout]

the velocity of electromagnetic radiation depends on the medium it is travelling through.
(tscherenkow would have been pretty annoyed if that wasn't the case) ;)

[BrokenRythm]

there is an atmosphere in ut, so that velocity is pretty wrong

................................so earth has no atmosphere..............?..............huh?

[blackout]

sure it has. that's why light doesn't travel with 2.999792458*10^8m/s on earth.

[Boksha]

second, those are some pretty horrible analogys. "Point a battery at a wall"...............WHAT? In case you were wondering, I was just making fun of you for not knowing the difference between lightning and light.


Because the impact hammer is improvised, the ripper is based on stole Skaarj technology, the GES Bio-Rifle is based on stolen Merc/Skaarj technology.
All REAL weapons exist today because some crazy mofo improvised a weapon from the enviroment, which was then refined and advanced till it was mass produced. Your thinking of the universe in extremely Modern Earth-centic way,
which doesn't make much sense in a place as big and diverse as the galaxy. My point wasn't about how someone could've come up with it, but about why it'd be mass produced. Weapons may be originally designed by some crazy mofo, but unless it's a weapon that has some advantage over existing weapons, nobody will build a factory to mass produce it.

[Lazz]

Im not particularly liking the possibility (though probably fact now) that the lightning gun will be removed. UT2007 is the next generation for the unreal franchise and if anything they (Epic) should be *adding* content and not removing it.

I played UT2004 yesterday for the first time in a few weeks/months. As ever from not playing it for a while, it felt somewhat fresh and I enjoyed it. It also made me realise just how important the LG is. For me, the lightning gun is as much of a part of UT as the shock rifle and flak cannon. It would be nice if we could have both the lightning gun and the sniper rifle. That way, 'fans' of both weapons are happy.

[iLL]

To me it is rather simple.I can understand why many do not like it.I personally love it.Its about time we had something other than a WW2 style sniper rifle.Its a bit futuristic and unique.

All they need to do is balance in a way that it would not be the wep of choice for all experienced players.Noobs cannot get near these guys to even fight them unless they too learn the LG.

Epic could tone the damage down or knock some of its range off.There has to be a way,but no sense in discussing that since its removal seems definite.

We have an option to include or exclude the trans and other weapons in 2k4 why not an option to have it included in 2k7.Most hate this friggin gun at first.I know I did.I heard numerous complaints and watched many split after being owned up by it,however when you get a basic grasp on how to use it your opinions begin to sway.

I think its one of hardest weapons to master and anything that requires alot of time is not good for sales,noobs,and frustrates many.

Before the hitscan flames begin lemme just say I too would like to see the hitscan long range fighting gone its why I said keep it,BUT ONLY if it were balanced correctly with other weapons.

Also one of the reasons it looks so bad is because you have crazy movements in 2k4(which I love and would not change a thing btw) and the shield gun,which I would ditch.

Hitscan,Movement,Shield=too much.Tone LG damage and or range down,Remove shield gun completely,and knock a few feet off the overall dodge jumping distance is all that is needed imho.

[Gregori]

My point wasn't about how someone could've come up with it, but about why it'd be mass produced. Weapons may be originally designed by some crazy mofo, but unless it's a weapon that has some advantage over existing weapons, nobody will build a factory to mass produce it.


For the spectacle that is the tournament, gruesome weapons custom built specifically for it would make alot of sense. Just like the Impact hammer. They would just be much more dramatic for the audience.

Lightnin guns would probably do a million times more damage than tradtional bullet based weapons. Factories around the world produce many weapons that are inferior to others. Desert Eagles for example are still made but their awesome power is pointless since a smaller, more stable firearm can do the job quicker and cleaner. The British standar issue AS during the first Gulf war was often ditched in favour of AK47's captured from enemy troops.


Pretty much, Lightning guns are just an extremely cool concept, and thats what this game is all about.

[Boksha]

Lightnin guns would probably do a million times more damage than tradtional bullet based weapons. Factories around the world produce many weapons that are inferior to others. Desert Eagles for example are still made but their awesome power is pointless since a smaller, more stable firearm can do the job quicker and cleaner. The British standar issue AS during the first Gulf war was often ditched in favour of AK47's captured from enemy troops. Well, pre-existing production facilities are an advantage by themselves. :)
Plus, the LG is in besides other bulletweapons, particularly in UT2007 it'd be up against the Enforcers, which are simple handguns. If the LG was to be balanced, it'd do about the same damage as a regular sniper rifle would do compared to a handgun. This explanation can only be used if there are no regular guns to be seen, or if any regular gun shown is indeed inferior in power, but in UT2007 it'd just look odd next to the enforcers, while a regular sniper rifle would be quite plausible. It'd fit in too; if bullet spewing handguns still exist and work well, why not bullet based sniper rifles?


Pretty much, Lightning guns are just an extremely cool concept, and thats what this game is all about. I dig the way they work in most other games, but in UT2k4 they're just silly because they have absolutely no property you'd expect from a gun firing lightning, like seeking out close targets, dealing less damage to airborne targets, performing differently underwater, having limited range... etc.

[{SM}LeadSniper]

i like the lightning gun but overall it needs some serious tweeking. ie:dealing more damage to airborne victims(their are no longer grounded so it would hurt a whole lot more) actually sounding like lightning, better effect better looking gun (epic no offense but yellow!! seriously black and red(or blue for teamplay) ftw rofl). eh, doesnt matter to me. a gun is a gun as long as i can kill someone with it is all that matters to me rofl.

[awaw]

I prefer the Lightning Gun over the sniper rifle because of the look of it. IMHO the sniper rifle doesn't fit really in ut since it's the only weapon you could put easily in a 20/21th century game without any problems. (Note: I'm not saying it is impossible that a bullet sniper rifle is used in the year 2312 (that's ut07's year iirc))

I also don't like getting attacked without knowing immediately where the enemy is (at least approximately).

I personally don't care if it's radiation, light, lighting or a water pistol. For me it's not important if it is realistic. It should fit and look cool (not to forget do some damage ;) ), that's what a weapon got to do for me.

[da ghost]

I don't think the LG belonged in UT2004. They should come up with a futuristic version of the sniper rifle that still keeps its roots.

um.............................................
...............................
...........................


that's what the Lightning Gun is... :)

[An4rChø-PuNk]

Sniper rifle sux, can't see where from a shot, we don't play CS ...

[BrokenRythm]

Dude Boksha listen man. I respect your opinion and everything.

But you're taking a fantasy PC game, and trying to justify your thoughts by adding real world idealisms to it. You can't do that man!

UT is a futuristic, fantasy FPS. It does't have to make sense on every single level. Who cares who or what or when or how the lightning gun was made? I was trying to convey my opinion to you. I prefer the LG, end of story

[Boksha]

Even fantasy has to be believable. The LG is just silly.
That said, I do NOT consider UT fantasy. Like I said, it takes place in our universe at some point in the future.

[Daverix]

I want lightning gun but maybe with a better beam...

[Scylla]

Even fantasy has to be believable. The LG is just silly.
That said, I do NOT consider UT fantasy. Like I said, it takes place in our universe at some point in the future.


Why is the lightning gun silly, yet earlier you mentioned if it shot an energy beam it wouldn't be silly?

I think that it looks better than a regular sniper rifle that must be in nearly every FPS EVER.

[MonsOlympus]

Ok Im gonna stay neutral on this one being a spam-mister!

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=169812

Thought you guys might want to check out some of the discussion on this thread, I remember it being pretty decent. Theres also this newer one.

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=176449

[ShredPrince]

Well the results are overwhelming I'd say:

GIVE US THE LIGHTNING GUN EPIC: you already have the Sniper Rifle, so add it in.

I'm sure the community could and would provide a LG model for UT07 if needed.

[Boksha]

Well the results are overwhelming I'd say:

GIVE US THE LIGHTNING GUN EPIC: you already have the Sniper Rifle, so add it in. I'm glad Epic doesn't base decisions on a set of 147 non representative forummers.

[ShredPrince]

Wow someone has a FEW pots///LOL

type much?

[Apathy]

Or he's just been around for a while?

If you were to put together all my posts, from all the accounts I've had, I'd probably have araound 8,000 or so.

[Boksha]

Wow someone has a FEW pots///LOL

type much? I checked yesterday... it's the most on the forum actually. :eek:
I was like the #30 or so back on the Atari forum, but most of those people got their posts on the community chat section that didn't get copied along with the UT2004 boards.
And yes, I do spend some time on these forums. I averaged at about 10 posts per day for a long time. :)

[N1ghtmare]

How can you say the LG is silly? Its as silly as having a rocket launcher loading up 6 rockets...

From a production statement, both would have overkill, but UT2007 is a game and not real life where no manufacturer would make these weapons.

[Boksha]

How can you say the LG is silly? Its as silly as having a rocket launcher loading up 6 rockets... I fail to see how that comparison is a valid one. A portable rocketlauncher that loads up rockets is an insane version of an existing weapon providing extra firepower, while a lightning gun is just a highly illogical choice for a long range weapon that doesn't offer any advantage over a regular sniper rifle. (and acts exactly like a regular sniper rifle at that)

[N1ghtmare]

It has a slower fire rate and does more damage, so it isn't "exactly like" the SR.

How is it illogical to choose a weapon that zaps an enemy with kightning? Didnt the Instruction manuel LG biography said it had a stabalizer?

[Scylla]

I fail to see how that comparison is a valid one. A portable rocketlauncher that loads up rockets is an insane version of an existing weapon providing extra firepower, while a lightning gun is just a highly illogical choice for a long range weapon that doesn't offer any advantage over a regular sniper rifle. (and acts exactly like a regular sniper rifle at that)

Who really cares if the lightning gun could never exist? IT'S A GOD DAMN GAME!

Think about the fact that games don't have to make perfect sense (especially one called "Unreal" and don't bother posting about that being stupid, becuase it's just a game...) before you decide to post "It doesn't make sense!"

[Gregori]

I fail to see how that comparison is a valid one. A portable rocketlauncher that loads up rockets is an insane version of an existing weapon providing extra firepower, while a lightning gun is just a highly illogical choice for a long range weapon that doesn't offer any advantage over a regular sniper rifle. (and acts exactly like a regular sniper rifle at that)


The lightning gun fires child bolts from the point of impact that randonmly spash damage othe people.


You're argument could be used agienst most UT weapons, Ripper, Stinger, Pulsegun, Impact Hammer, Flak Cannon, Ges Biorifle. Most of those weapons are highly implausible and offer no real advantage over modern weapons.

But we have these wacky weapons because they are cool and this is Unreal!!,
Unreal is all about unconventional weapons, thats what seperates it from every other game on the market.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

I didn't get to read all 12 pages as I'm short on time, but here is my two cents.

The lightning gun seems to fit the direction Epic is leading their weapons, and it is a much more balanced and satisfying weapon over the SR. Though I am always up for cool new looking/feeling weapons, so I say either keep the LG, use an updated UC2 SR or make something completely new.

Maybe even a SR/LG hybrid that has bullet casings filled with electrified fluid. The light emitted from this fluid would create a whitish blue tracer effect behind the bullet. When the bullet missed a player the casing would leave a bullet hole and you would see a small electrical burst the size of the ut2k4 mini gun secondary explosion (would not inflict damage to near by enemies). And when the enemy is shot or killed you would get the same effect as the current LG hit/kill.

I would love to see something like that personally :p.

What do you guys think?

[Apathy]

All the weapons they've shown are updated UC2 ones.. I'm hoping thats what they do with the sniper rifle. Make the tracer shot an option server side though.. Some people like to have sniper servers, and trail showing where you are kills that.

I also hope they DON"T do the three bullet thing when not zoomed in.. That will be annoying.

[Gregori]

All the weapons they've shown are updated UC2 ones.. I'm hoping thats what they do with the sniper rifle. Make the tracer shot an option server side though.. Some people like to have sniper servers, and trail showing where you are kills that.

I also hope they DON"T do the three bullet thing when not zoomed in.. That will be annoying.


They probaby won't, that feature was to balance the weapon against all the crazy mobility in UC2.

[graou]

LG is one of my favorites in 2k4. I m not that much against the SniperR but I d like to keep seeing things as much unreal as possible ;) :D
(also IMO LG>sniper for the two reasons: faster loading and trace-ability)

[Body_Counter]

LG is one of my favorites in 2k4. I m not that much against the SniperR but I d like to keep seeing things as much unreal as possible ;) :D
(also IMO LG>sniper for the two reasons: faster loading and trace-ability)

Thats exactly how i feel, just about LG having a faster loading time than SR, you must see that the UT99 SR had an even faster loading time than the LG :)

UT99 SR was too imba... fast like hell and deadly with most headshots. the natural choice for maximum domination in ut99 games was sniping... sadly.

UT2K4 SR i never really liked. although the idea to slow it down is basically good, i just didnt like the way it feels to use that gun. also that fog which appears in front of the SR after each shot is very strange for me...

whatever weapons ut2k7 will contain, i expect them to rock :P
to keep the LG would do though, i guess...

[Modulus]

You might want to try making your poll a little more 'clear-cut'. Instead of giving the BOTH option just have one for LG and one for sniper rifle and one for 'don't care'. Right now your results could be skewed because the people who voted for keeping both would have to make a choice one way or the other if that choice didn't exist.

Right now, as a sniper rifle lover, all I can assume is that the votes are currently tied 77 to 77 because all of the 'both' voters could say that they wanted the sniper rifle if asked to choose.

[Modulus]

UT99 SR was too imba... fast like hell and deadly with most headshots. the natural choice for maximum domination in ut99 games was sniping... sadly...

Not really... The player scale was so different in UT99... Case in point, if you stood on the top of the ramps in deck16 in UT99 by where the thigh pads were and were sniping at people in the hallway by the rocket launcher they were tiny... I mean really tiny... Only the very best hitscan artists could get consistent head shots in that way. On other maps, again because of the player scale, the fighting was so intense and cramped that you were just as easily killed by the RL as the sniper (or even shock secondary).

If they included an unchanged sniper rifle from UT99 in 2k4 than you'd see some real stupid head shots... That would be unbalanced. In UT it's not because of the size of your opponent on your screen.

Furthermore, the weapon most used in UT99 for total domination (at least in competetive TDM) was the minigun. It was hitscan, had a high rate of fire and high damage... on top of all of that, it was deadly in those close quarter cramped and hectic situations... Those situations are extremely prevalent in UT99 for the reasons I mentioned above (mainly the different player scale and tighter maps and lack of dodge-jump).

[Gregori]

I'm not a vegetarian because I hate meat... I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants.


good signature!:D

[Scylla]

You might want to try making your poll a little more 'clear-cut'. Instead of giving the BOTH option just have one for LG and one for sniper rifle and one for 'don't care'. Right now your results could be skewed because the people who voted for keeping both would have to make a choice one way or the other if that choice didn't exist.

Right now, as a sniper rifle lover, all I can assume is that the votes are currently tied 77 to 77 because all of the 'both' voters could say that they wanted the sniper rifle if asked to choose.

If anything, you would have to assume that 50% of the "both" option would go to LG and the other 50% would go for SR (if those are the only two options). Guessing it would go your way doesn't make much sense.

[ShredPrince]

Even under that sckewed line of thought the lightning gun should still be added.

The sniper is already confirmed, therefore if you vote for both ,your voting to have the lightning gun included.

[Catana]

Sniper Rifle! :D I didn't really like the Lighting gun.

[Body_Counter]

...
...

Furthermore, the weapon most used in UT99 for total domination (at least in competetive TDM) was the minigun. It was hitscan, had a high rate of fire and high damage... on top of all of that, it was deadly in those close quarter cramped and hectic situations... Those situations are extremely prevalent in UT99 for the reasons I mentioned above (mainly the different player scale and tighter maps and lack of dodge-jump).

lol modulus, also i must say that your vegetarian signature is good :D

however, about wheather the sniper was imba in ut99... i agree to you, that often, servers got owned by other weapons than the SR. depending on the map and gamemode, a RL, ASMD or of course the minigun were often the best choice to get many frags in short time... but this is only true for people with a "normal" aiming skill. often enough i saw people hitting more than 50% of their SR shots, and most of them in the head - wheather that was "human" aiming or simply an aimbot, surely varies from case to case... what i just want to express is that i didnt like the fact that the SR was theoretically the strongest weapon (with the according aiming skill of course).

this weapon could just do something which no other weapon could do: dealing 150 of dmg without the theoretical possibility of actively avoiding a hit, as soon as eye contact exists between the sniper and his victim, no matter over what distance.
that is a big theoretical advantage over all other weapons, isnt it? as i said, this theoretical advantage was practically used by many people...

getting owned by a headshot on the first sight, i never liked... and owning other people the same way i found just boring.
if i want such kind of weapons or combat, i go to play tactical ops, but unreal tournament has more interesting fights to offer... the nice diversified unreal - weaponry, causing a lot of action packed close combat.

so, back to the topic, i think the lightning gun is more "unrealish" than the sniper rifle, although the SR appeared already in unreal 1 :rolleyes:

[Modulus]

If anything, you would have to assume that 50% of the "both" option would go to LG and the other 50% would go for SR (if those are the only two options). Guessing it would go your way doesn't make much sense.

Of course it makes sense... You're obviously not an engineer like me... Never doubt an engineer when it comes to numbers.

If the poll were worded differently (which do you prefer? LG or SR?) than the Both catergory is the same as saying undecided... If 77 people are undecided than you could absolutely assume that all 77 could pick either the LG or the SR. You don't have to assume a perfect 50-50 split and I'm surprized that you think that's the "correct" way to think about the situation.

Like I said. As it stands we have a perfect tie because all of the "Both" voters could vote for the SR if they HAD to make a choice between the two weapons.

Dude, stop talking out of yer arse and think before you try to correct my posts.

[Modulus]

lol modulus, also i must say that your vegetarian signature is good :D

however, about wheather the sniper was imba in ut99... i agree to you, that often, servers got owned by other weapons than the SR. depending on the map and gamemode, a RL, ASMD or of course the minigun were often the best choice to get many frags in short time... but this is only true for people with a "normal" aiming skill. often enough i saw people hitting more than 50% of their SR shots, and most of them in the head - wheather that was "human" aiming or simply an aimbot, surely varies from case to case... what i just want to express is that i didnt like the fact that the SR was theoretically the strongest weapon (with the according aiming skill of course).

this weapon could just do something which no other weapon could do: dealing 150 of dmg without the theoretical possibility of actively avoiding a hit, as soon as eye contact exists between the sniper and his victim, no matter over what distance.
that is a big theoretical advantage over all other weapons, isnt it? as i said, this theoretical advantage was practically used by many people...

getting owned by a headshot on the first sight, i never liked... and owning other people the same way i found just boring.
if i want such kind of weapons or combat, i go to play tactical ops, but unreal tournament has more interesting fights to offer... the nice diversified unreal - weaponry, causing a lot of action packed close combat.

so, back to the topic, i think the lightning gun is more "unrealish" than the sniper rifle, although the SR appeared already in unreal 1 :rolleyes:

I agree with most of what you just said... The hitbox in UT for the headshot was grossly inaccurate. I've seen slo-mo video's of people getting 4 or more head shots in a row and there were times when I could clearly see the reticle aimed at the upper torso, and still a headshot was given.

As far as what weapon was the most powerful in UT, let me just say this... For a couple months my UT clan XxX (101 proof) was in the top 5 of the ladders... I had a chance to play some of the best back then like Pure, Dark Disciples, etc., and one recurring theme that I found during those matches was that mini-whores (as they were affectionately referred to) were the dominating force on maps like DM-Liandri, DM-Zeto, and many others. Now wer're talking about the best of the best as far as player skill goes with some of these clans and time and time again you'd find that even though you had full health and the shield belt on that you would be mowed down in a matter of 3-4 seconds when you were being followed closely from behind by someone with a minigun.

SR did have it's dominating scenario (deck16's ramp area), but for the most part, my 5 years of playing UT showed me that during DM and TDM matches, the SR was maybe a 2nd tier or more accurately, a 3rd tier choice on the dominating weapon tree.

In RA it was probably an even split between the shock rifle and the sniper rifle... But those maps were mostly very open. Most DM maps had a lot of tight areas where it wasn't very practicle to use hitscan weapons, but instead weapons with splash damage. The minigun being the exception to this rule because of it's cone of hitscan pwnage. The one time the more inaccurate secondary fire came in really handy.

[>>Gunslinger<<]

I've seen slo-mo video's of people getting 4 or more head shots in a row and there were times when I could clearly see the reticle aimed at the upper torso, and still a headshot was given.

HAX! ^^

I could take either. I like them both for difference reasons.

[Xyx]

Maybe lightning guns are cheaper to produce (plastic instead of titanium), lighter (again, plastic) and can be recharged at any standardized wall outlet. How's that for mass manufacturing motive?
___

Poll option 3 is stupid. You cannot use what you want if you only get one type of weapon in a map.

Epic (or whoever else has time to waste) could make a client side mutator that force models either lightning guns or sniper rifles. They'd be the exact same except for the graphics. Then everybody would get what they want.

[Lert]

I'm Very amused that people think they know exactly what the UT2007 sniping weapon will be like, based on the UT2003 / 2004 ones ..

My ? Right now I far prefer the LtG over that POS, the SR.

But I'll wait and try the sniping weapon in UT2007 before casting judgment on it. That's what smart people do. Wait and see, instead of whining before seeing it for themselves what it's actually LIKE.

[=PreDator=]

imo it would be the best to include both weapons, so there's something for everyone and then wait which weapon is more liked by the community.

If you would include just the LG, the SR fans would be disappointed. If you would include the SR, the LG fans would be disapointed.

I personally liked the SR for many years, because it rocked in UT99, but the 2k4 sniper is just crap. Therefore I changed my mind and switched to the LG. But I wouldn't mind if epic included a SR like the SR in UT99 in UT2k7.

[Selerox]

I'm Very amused that people think they know exactly what the UT2007 sniping weapon will be like, based on the UT2003 / 2004 ones ..

My ? Right now I far prefer the LtG over that POS, the SR.

But I'll wait and try the sniping weapon in UT2007 before casting judgment on it. That's what smart people do. Wait and see, instead of whining before seeing it for themselves what it's actually LIKE.

That's true I guess, it could well be completely different from either, which I think would be the best thing really. The term "Sniper Rifle" could just be because they haven't thought up a better name yet :)

[Gregori]

Maybe lightning guns are cheaper to produce (plastic instead of titanium), lighter (again, plastic) and can be recharged at any standardized wall outlet. How's that for mass manufacturing motive?


I woudn't worry about weapons needing some rational reason to justify their existence, payments to favoured companies for the production of millitary junk could be the reason crazy powerful weapons are developed, afterall the US Goverment is willing to spend a projected $276.4 billion on the F35 Lightning II stealth fighter!

[Omniety]

I prefer seeing a trail which everyone can see, over a single high velocity high powered bullet which.. at best fails to glorify as well as a bolt of lightning up someones ass.

I vote lightning gun.

[Bjossi]

I want the LG, I don't see the sniper rifle fit with the rest of the arsenal. Plus the LG is simply a cooler weapon. :)

[ii_SmurF_ii]

I say both guns to fit the setting of the level.(Sorry guys didn't read the pervious posts)

Lightning Gun:Futuristic Levels
Sniper Rifle:Just in case they sneak in a few outdated looking levels.

[Jake-SF]

I can't remove my votes I guess... Really, something completely new would do much better than both. Something original, that fits the style of the other weapons, but which is also somewhat "high-tech", so its not an old completely standard sniper rifle, but it isn't either a nowhere thunder shooter.

IMO something new and original (mainly in terms of design and visual effect), with an original effect that is easy to see and original, too.

I know its asking a lot, but it would be much more satisfying to me.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I'm not a sniper sort of guy, so I tend to avoid both, but, of the two, the lightning gun is better in every way, for me. Maybe it's just the lack of feedback you get, but the sniper rifle just doesn't do it for me. If the LG had a crack of thunder after a shot, and a distant "crack" effect like the "crump" sound for the SPMA, that's be even sweeter.

Since I suck with both, however, my opinion isn't based on the weapons effectiveness, but in how much fun it is to stalk a sniper that is using them.

Frankly, I just wish people would use these weapons like their meant to be used: hiding in bushes or shadows, capping people from extreme ranges using stealth and accuracy. The only people a really good sniper needs to fear are those who whine about "camping" and admins that disallow certain tactical choices.

But SR users are more fun to hunt, since it's harder to detect their direction. And calling in sniper support is sweet, as is hunting for a sniper with your own sniper weapon, hoping you see them before you're spotted. Really, trying to cross the center mass on Magma or the original Laval Giant was really cool, since you'd have to crouch in whatever cover you could find, and cap the snipers on the walls before dashing from cover. Way cool! Gameplay like that is all too rare, these days! People never want to stop running and shooting continuously. It's a shame.

So they've both got their good points.

[Xenocide]

I say both guns to fit the setting of the level.(Sorry guys didn't read the pervious posts)

Lightning Gun:Futuristic Levels
Sniper Rifle:Just in case they sneak in a few outdated looking levels.

With that logic they should have an older looking version of every single gun, in the outdated looking maps.

[brdempsey69]

Voted Sniper Rifle and agree with Boshka & Flak.

Never liked that sissy LG, and never will.

But this poll is all in vain. SR is in, LG is out for UT2007. Like it or not.

[Henrik]

To me the UT series was always meant to be a bleak future scenario.. You know, like wartorn, and you didn't always have the fanciest or latest weapon models, you had to make do with whatever you could find. So a lot of the weapons were surplus.. In that context the sniper rifle fit just fine.. And maybe the look is dated now, but the purpose of that particular weapon hasn't changed, and the fact that there are different types of players hasn't changed.. Take away the sniper and you take away a significant portion of players who prefer more strategetic, defensive, or stealthy play.. Yes it's a run and gun game in large part, but coming from a UT sniper clan I can tell you that the most fun games I ever had were sniper matches, not reg weaps.. I played sniper exclusively for probably 3 years, and I know a lot of other people did too.

The LG came in as a "replacement" for the sniper, then the sniper returned, but the LG was kept in, presumably because enough people liked it.. but it's limited in its uses, and about as useful as wearing a big neon sign that says "shoot me" as it is as a weapon. So it's expendable.. the sniper just isn't.

I believe the best solution is a gun that is a bit of a more futuristic looking version of the original UT sniper.. not like that toy looking thing in 2k4.. something sleek and black, with a blue tracer, .. you know the transporter effect from startrek, something like that in blue.. or like dust in the beam of a flashlight.. very transparent.. subtle enough so that snipers can use it, but visible enough that people can figure out where the player is camping if they hide somewhere, stop moving and watch carefully. And the gun should be a bit worn looking. What's so hard about that?

[Selerox]

But this poll is all in vain. SR is in, LG is out for UT2007. Like it or not.

So much for community feedback...

[Jrubzjeknf]

How about: let's see where it goes. We haven't seen the UT2007 sniper rifle yet, maybe it just looks like one, but fires trails like the LG. :D

[Boksha]

So much for community feedback... Heh.
Well if Epic actually did everything suggested by this community, I don't think I'd really like the game we'd end up with. :)

[MonsOlympus]

Actually this could be one for epic to take note on, Im not a sniper guy either way but there is alot of support for the lightning gun. Ofcoarse there was a bit of a kickback after 2k3 which might give the impression people just dont know what the want. Im all for giving both just incase since there is alot of numbers in these compared to some of the other polls.

Mind you the sniper that'll be in 2k7 might be different to the ut one or 2k4 one, it might even be similar to the uc2 one or not. Theres alot of ground here, if epic can come up with 1 weapon everyone of these people will love, damn, my hats off to ya's ;)

[Sir Hollehund]

It's certain now that the long-range tool will be the Sniper? Great! :D I couldn't force myself to use the Lightning Gun before... no idea why, it just didn't feel right for me.

[Xyx]

if Epic actually did everything suggested by this community
Does Epic ever do anything suggested on this forum? I've only been on the forums since 2004, but I haven't seen them acknowledging a single suggestion.

[fuegerstef]

Does Epic ever do anything suggested on this forum? I've only been on the forums since 2004, but I haven't seen them acknowledging a single suggestion.

I can just think of these at the moment:

-Sniper Rifle in UT2k4
-Brighter Skins in UT2k4 (lighting wise)
-Eyeheight "fixed" in UT2k4
-Boostdodging removed/nerfed (however you wanna call it)
-MantaJump Limit included after Demo
-Faster ROF for LightningGun
-Maps that are wider to make use of dodge jumping
-Less StaticMeshes for a little clearer view
-Making Torlan][ a non-single primary node map.


(Note: The suggestions do not refelct mine. I only stated what was suggested by a lot of people and later was included (I also don't know if it was because of the community, but I heavily assume so))

[Henrik]

Does Epic ever do anything suggested on this forum? I've only been on the forums since 2004, but I haven't seen them acknowledging a single suggestion.
Actually I've seen several things I specifically suggested for UT2007 come to pass.

[ShredPrince]

I'd be willing to bet this thread get the LG in.

[Henrik]

Doubtful.....

[Boksha]

I'd be willing to bet this thread get the LG in. I'd be willing to bet Epic counted on more than 88 people voting the LG on a forum with mostly UT2k4 players.

[Xyx]

-Sniper Rifle in UT2k4
-Brighter Skins in UT2k4 (lighting wise)
-Eyeheight "fixed" in UT2k4
-Boostdodging removed/nerfed (however you wanna call it)
-MantaJump Limit included after Demo
-Faster ROF for LightningGun

I wonder which of those came after the demo. Maybe Epic believes in "don't knock it 'til you played it".


-Maps that are wider to make use of dodge jumping
-Less StaticMeshes for a little clearer view
Argh. To think that UT2003 might have felt "right", had Epic not listened.


-Making Torlan][ a non-single primary node map.
As a result of what is posted here? I doubt it.


Actually I've seen several things I specifically suggested for UT2007 come to pass.
Attributable to our suggestions or Epic's common sense?

[Boksha]

Attributable to our suggestions or Epic's common sense? Both, I might hope.
Epic would be pretty stupid to do something the community says if it's obvious it's a bad idea.

[fuegerstef]

I wonder which of those came after the demo. Maybe Epic believes in "don't knock it 'til you played it".

Everything was in the first Demo (xcept where stated otherwise). So they included it before. I still remember when (after playing UT2k3 for it's whole lifespan) I actually was able to see the character, when he stood more than 5 yards away under a bright light.





Argh. To think that UT2003 might have felt "right", had Epic not listened.

The maps were mostly horrible. I still wonder how the DM-Oceanic layout might work if it wasn't so cramped.
And: As a mapper (not a Player) I found maps like Phobos][ indoors were just cluttered with random static meshes, that didn't fit the style and only were put there because they could.



As a result of what is posted here? I doubt it.

I don't know if I understand you sentence correctly (English is not my first language). But there were so many complaints about single primary node layouts and how imbalanced the map (Torlan ) is that I think (but I am not sure) it is because of the massive complaints.

[Xyx]

Stimmt ja.


Epic would be pretty stupid to do something the community says if it's obvious it's a bad idea.
Something part of the community says. And that's where the trouble starts. But I think Epic's on the right track in that regard. Obviously planning for long-term improvement.

[Eveningfall]

I voted to include both. I am surprised that the lightning gun is in the lead.

[brdempsey69]

Even though I've already stated that I dislike the LG, it won't displease me if it's included as a mutator--even though I wouldn't use it.

Here's a suggestion I think we'd all agree on--let's say for the moment the LG is included as
a mutator in UT2007, then why not have the option to use this mutator in the Single Player Tournament Ladder ( or any other mutator that one wants to use ). I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but just merely throwing out a suggestion. Anyone disagree?

[Xyx]

I suggests Epic offers the Lightning Gun in the same way the Classic Shock Rifle and Classic Link Gun are offered in UT2004: as a purely visual clientside hack. That way everyone can really decide for themselves.

And yes, that would mean you are exposed when sniping... but I'm counting on a pretty visible sniper trace anyway.

[MonsOlympus]

Originally posted by fuegerstef
But there were so many complaints about single primary node layouts and how imbalanced the map (Torlan ) is that I think (but I am not sure) it is because of the massive complaints.

You know Ive got a really strange feeling like Ive seen torlan 2, which I couldnt have could I? Well here it is, I think it'll be like ONS-Face with 2 huge towers this time around so maybe that'll fix some of the issues. Dunno where I got that idea but its in my head somewhere :p

[Silvester[AUT]]

I like the LG better because of the more futuristic style. I enjoy every animation and the SG simply has too litte, and non futuristic.
btw If I want bullet weapons only I go play css.(down)

[iLL]

Both, I might hope.
Epic would be pretty stupid to do something the community says if it's obvious it's a bad idea.

Heres the catch though.They will not lose that many sales from the community because I think most will buy it at least to give it a chance.Thats how faithful,loyal,ole skooling diehards are.So Epics gets our sales even if we do not like it.

Then they get many more sales from appealing to 99 and new prospects by doing what they are doing with the LG and Movements and God only knows what else.

I do not think it matters too much who and how many are happy with this or that.Bottom line-they are a business and in the business of making money.So from a business perspective they are doing whats good for them.

It does not matter if there was a worldwide poll on the dodgejump and LG clearly showing an overwhelming majority in favor of them,it would not change.

Thats does not mean the game won't kick some ass,but I do believe that.

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah thats really the impression I got from 2k7 so far is its epics game the way they want to do it, Im sure they'll take things like this under consideration since there would be some people at epic that prefer one weapon or the other. Your right though alot of people will buy the game out of loyalty or just pure buzz behind the engine and epic as a whole atm. Either way I think epics got a bright future :D

[Boksha]

']btw If I want bullet weapons only I go play css.(down) Duh.
It's not like replacing the LG with a bullet weapon (which does not actually change gameplay because the LG was basically a bullet weapon with a fancy skin) will make the other weapons in the game bullet weapons. :p

[dinwitty]

lightning gun I think is something of an answer to the online cheating.

I think with snipering you want to be a sneak and surprise.
Its fun when you do it right. I find it too much fun in face. I find people spamming with the sniper and I pick them off.
or I find another hiding and sniping and then the real fun begins and you pick them off.

The lightning rifle may be overdramatic for sniping. The UT99 rifle had no real effect.
Having some kind of revealing effect would be good enough but I wouldnt want too much of an effect so the victim can still go..huh whered that come from?
After respawn or a missed hit they might go looking for where they got hit and then maybe finally see the gun effect and they're off on their own strategy for revenge.

[Gregori]

Holy ****sky, there's a lightning storm in Dublin right now!

I say keep the LG, but it needs a better effect and decent sound effects!

Real lightning is extremely bright and for a few milliseconds it flashes almost blindingly bright. Lightning flashes overbrightening the screen for a fraction of a second would be a better way to obscure the sniper's view than that stupid puff of smoke that comes out of the UT2004 SniperRifle.

Whatever Sniper weapon Epic decide to put in it needs to sound like it could BLOW YOUR ****ING HEAD OFF!, kindda like the UT99 sniperifle did.
The LG sounds too weak and quiet for a gun thats meant to fire lightening bolts. Should sound more like thunder.

[dinwitty]

I wear headphones when playing, and in general all sounds are more tinny.
UT99 was really in the meat of the sounds.

[iLL]

LG is the best UT sniper rifle to date.Well the way it shoots and the concept.We are well overdue for a futuristic sniper rifle.

All other FPS have pretty much have very similar rifles.

I do agree the sounds and the beam are weak and not very satisfying.

Too bad its gone anyway.I cannot wait to see what they will try to replace it with because there are many that do not want it to go.

I think it was FEAR that had a killer sniper rifle that reminded me of Quakes rail gun that was awesome.If they give me something similar to that it might not be all bad.