Wanna' know how many copies UC2 sold?

[snoogans460]

Well, I just received my latest issue of OXM (Offical Xbox Magazine for the uninformed) in the mail today, and they had an extensive article about the 20 Best Xbox Games You Never Bought.

Naturally our little gem made the list and they included the number of how many copies were actually sold. So, how many you ask? *Drum Roll Please*

.... 145,300.

Now, whether this count is accurate or not is beyond me - but I will say this... UC2 didn't sell squat. My initial assumption was that it did better than 150,000 copies. After reading how poorly the sales were for this game - I feel angry at all the Halo fanboys for overlooking this fantastic title. Oh well.

[legacy-Callisto_Xii]

Wow....this is my favorite game. I saw it at Gamestop for 12.99

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

wow... thats low...

to think that i was one of that puny number

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

I figured it was lower thatn that.

[legacy-onenation]

I'm shocked. This is the only title I still own for the first Xbox. i had no idea it did that low.

[legacy-xXfeenyXx]

I thought it was like 500. o.oa

[legacy-mortichaANDzero]

[face_rose] wow only that much, at least half or less dont play it online though. [face_rose]

[snoogans460]

It's funny, because I never really thought about the actual number of copies sold - but once I actually saw everything in print, it seemed like such a relatively low number. At the same time, I suppose it doesn't really surprise me all that much. After estimating that 145,000 at roughly $35 bucks a pop, it still came out to $5 Million Dollars - however, I'm sure development costs for this game were significantly more.

[legacy-NecrisFlood]

I'm still bitter. Nobody really gave the damn game a chance...and the few who did...99% of them whined about every little thing they could possibly whine about from day 1. This is a great game, one of the best Xbox games ever, imo....and yet the whole thing could be summed up with the term "disaster", pretty much.

Thanks a LOT, stupid Xbox community. There will never, ever be another game like this again. Thanks so much. I only wish I could U-Damage Bio-cloud these people for real, and erase them from the friggin planet. If I'm ever obscenely rich, I'll just have my own personal team of game developers to make games to MY specifications. Then, I won't have to ever worry about being at the whim of such an amazingly close-minded, and overall *douchey* majority. I could then play whatever I wanted, regardless of what the rest of the world's asanine taste is.

[snoogans460]

I'm still bitter. Nobody really gave the damn game a chance...and the few who did...99% of them whined about every little thing they could possibly whine about from day 1. This is a great game, one of the best Xbox games ever, imo....and yet the whole thing could be summed up with the term "disaster", pretty much.

Thanks a LOT, stupid Xbox community. There will never, ever be another game like this again. Thanks so much. I only wish I could U-Damage Bio-cloud these people for real, and erase them from the friggin planet. If I'm ever obscenely rich, I'll just have my own personal team of game developers to make games to MY specifications. Then, I won't have to ever worry about being at the whim of such an amazingly close-minded, and overall *douchey* majority. I could then play whatever I wanted, regardless of what the rest of the world's asanine taste is.

Great post! You're definitely right, our community has seen its share of whiny ungrateful gamers mozey on through over the past year or so. Last summer I recall hearing incessant b!tch!n' anout every last thing and it became so annoying. People will forever be unappreciative I guess.

I'm not sure I'd sum up UC2 with the term "disaster" though - that may be a bit harsh - although I know where you're coming from. It's sad that gamers are more apt to play noobified titles rather than give something new a shot. All these standard FPS's and especially WWII games saturating the market make me ill. Yet, that's what gamers buy... LOSERS.

[legacy-legend]

If were talking about how many sold should it matter...well it could if I think about it.

And sgea CD owns...playing sonic all day when I was like 5

[legacy-xXfeenyXx]

Two of those copies were mine!! :O

[legacy-Xbox360]

There was not any mainstream advertisement, it maybe came on once or twice on G4TV, but other than that I didn't see it on any of the major television stations.

Maybe they will do better next time if they advertise it.

[legacy-NecrisFlood]

I remember a commercial that got quite a bit of airtime, mostly on Spike and probably MTV. It showed Anubis getting some weapons, with a voice-over talking about the "true warrior" selecting his weapons or something to that effect. I think it aired on Cartoon Network too.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

I remember a commercial that got quite a bit of airtime, mostly on Spike and probably MTV. It showed Anubis getting some weapons, with a voice-over talking about the "true warrior" selecting his weapons or something to that effect. I think it aired on Cartoon Network too.

You know that is true. But the fact is that they didn't advertise it as much as.....say halo. There is no doubt that if they demanded more TV time. Added it to a few radio stations. Involved it into them little slippets within some newspaper, and had them playing at game stores, then this community would be a lot bigger. We can't blame ourselves for this cause we got the game. The only thing we can do is tell our fellow friends and family to buy this game and give it a shot. Hell I got about 27 people that I know to start playing this game, and they love it. So you will see some of my personal friends and family start playing after they get good against bots.

[legacy-Eena]

Such a depressing reality, I think I should go buy thirty right now, but i'll probably only buy one more copy.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

I loved this game, when I played it, or, better said, when I was able to play it. Three factors that helped bring the game down, mainly by limiting the attractivenss of the game to anyone outside of the hardcore audience:

Busty, near-naked girl on the cover - many gamers have to run their game purchasing decisions by an adult, or have the games purchased for them by an adult. Those folks won't be getting a copy. Then there are the general impressions that come from the cover, for those who buy games for themselves. Is this a quality game? If so, why are the developers relying on sex to sell the game? Is the gameplay that shallow? Game developers need to grow out of the 17-year old mentality if they want games to be massively successful. Shooters that tack on some soft-core porn are symptomatic of a developer that lacks confidence in his ability to make a strong game on gameplay alone.

Lack of marketing/poor marketing, combined with a poorly planned release date. This game was made for a hardcore audience and marketed as such. Marketing to mass consumers is better accomplished without showing gameplay. The "Jump In" ads that Microsoft ran for the Xbox 360 are a good example of this. Releasing in the shadow of Halo 2 was also a poor decision.

Poor Support - Epic killed their own game with poor support. Word travels quickly on the internet and many people wait for user reviews to inform their puchasing decision. Lag and various netcode issues made a game that was focused on multiplayer unplayable. Call of Duty 2 on the Xbox 360 suffered the same fate, only to experience a total reversal when the developers released a patch. It is now the number one played game on Xbox Live (on the 360). But
Call of Duty 2 was the only decent shooter released with the 360. It sold well initially, in spite of its flaws, because there were no other options. UC2 did not enjoy such luxury.

In spite of balance and other design issues with Halo 2, the game is very approachable, especially from the multiplayer aspect. This is an oft understimated reason for Halo 2's popularity. This is something that UC2 lacked and (for all I know) lacks still.

Unreal Championship 2 is one of my all time favorite games. I pray that Epic releases a third version (keeping the melee and adrenaline aspects) and that it is a success.

[legacy-onenation]

Two of those copies were mine!! :O

Two of them were mines too. I love system link.

[CounterZeus]

It's funny, because I never really thought about the actual number of copies sold - but once I actually saw everything in print, it seemed like such a relatively low number. At the same time, I suppose it doesn't really surprise me all that much. After estimating that 145,000 at roughly $35 bucks a pop, it still came out to $5 Million Dollars - however, I'm sure development costs for this game were significantly more.

as a true fan I paid €60!!!

[legacy-soehaloe]

muahaha beat me counterzeus ive paid 70 euros! and ive bought 2 copys so beat that!!

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

muahaha beat me counterzeus ive paid 70 euros! and ive bought 2 copys so beat that!!

exchange rate[face_silly]

[legacy-soehaloe]

what does that mean (sorry im dutch english is my 2nd languene)

[legacy-b4rCh3tT4]

That is hillarious(excuse spelling) not because of the small number but because I played it for so long and was never apart of the small number. I rented it twice but never bought it...i just never took it back hahahaha!

[CounterZeus]

what does that mean (sorry im dutch english is my 2nd languene)

I'm Belgian, so Dutch is my first language too :)

€70 is a total rip-off!!!

-exchange rate- we tell eachother how much we paid for the awesome UC2 game [face_nerd]

[legacy-KriKKe]

Well, that this game hasn't sold well because of the marketing, is not really the problem for the community I think ...
This game is so freaking awesome, everytime I play it, I enjoy it more than any of my other games
BUT ...
everytime I play this game, it makes me wanna play on Xbox Live, and there we have our major problem... the lag, and you guys can tell what you want, play on servers hosted in your own neighbourhood doens't help, it may be better than when you play on a server from another continent, but there's still lag ... and that totally ruins the gameplay, I mean, this is fast action-shooting, the only thing you don't want to encounter, is lag ... (It's like in any other game, people just don't stay playing on laggy servers ...)
The only way to play with 8 people in multiplayer without lag is via system link, but that isn't really how you can create a large game-community. Everytime I try this game again on xbox live and I see again how laggy all the servers are, it makes me cry inside and think about how good the game would be without the lag.
This gaming community would have been larger from the beginning without the lag, because now most people tried the game online, they saw that every server, no matter what, is kinda laggy, and they sold the game or they put it away for good ...

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

what does that mean (sorry im dutch english is my 2nd languene)

exchange rate= Is the difference between two currencys. It also specifies how much one is worth compared with the other.

in example €10 = $12.60 = £6.86

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

Well, that this game hasn't sold well because of the marketing, is not really the problem for the community I think ...
This game is so freaking awesome, everytime I play it, I enjoy it more than any of my other games
BUT ...
everytime I play this game, it makes me wanna play on Xbox Live, and there we have our major problem... the lag, and you guys can tell what you want, play on servers hosted in your own neighbourhood doens't help, it may be better than when you play on a server from another continent, but there's still lag ... and that totally ruins the gameplay, I mean, this is fast action-shooting, the only thing you don't want to encounter, is lag ... (It's like in any other game, people just don't stay playing on laggy servers ...)
The only way to play with 8 people in multiplayer without lag is via system link, but that isn't really how you can create a large game-community. Everytime I try this game again on xbox live and I see again how laggy all the servers are, it makes me cry inside and think about how good the game would be without the lag.
This gaming community would have been larger from the beginning without the lag, because now most people tried the game online, they saw that every server, no matter what, is kinda laggy, and they sold the game or they put it away for good ...

Ok, what you said is so true. But you have to understand that marketing deals with people actually getting off there couch and getting the game. After that the statistical numbers regarding who returned it, throw it away, etc., does not count. So yes in a since the numbers are much smaller if you count that, but the marketing of this game will layout what the title of this topic is about, SALES. Not flaming, downing you, or discouraging you, but marketing plays most of the role when it comes to the numbers. We will all agree that Epic could have done much more to bring the community up by re-establishing the servers, and adding more content. Even a version a UCeditor would be great if it came with a keyboard and mouse set-up. I believe that gaming on the PC will become terribly expense, and console systems will take over as soon as they create a way to implement K/B besides third party vendor apps and hardware that void the warranty. But that is more off the subject. In my oppinion I believe that these next gen consoles are getting too much glory, and not adapting to the capabilities of a pc.

Let's think about it. The xbox is a pc, but with very little capibilities that are "locked". A console game is so much easier, and cost much less, to play games with and develop. One game on conlose system = one set of code + graphics + movies + whatever. And guess what, you don't have to upgrade to the best graphics card in order to have all of the specs up. And the developers don't have to re-edit there code cause a few people can't do something. So in my eyes whoever makes the intergration of a new portable gaming pc console (like my new name for the next big console) first will soon show that the ratings for gaming will be off the meter. And then, only then, will console games become the number one choice then a pc.

Also in the developer's eyes, it is too much time invested in creating a game, then having to go back and create patches due to pc systems not all being of the same equipment, and bugs. Thus creating less games out within a year, or new undeveloped games due to time spent "fixing" what was already released to the community. Have you ever wondered why they offer there development tools in some games. It's to keep you playing, and not for you in some ways, but for them.

I know you are wondering why am I talking about this, but I will explain. Now for the sake of UC, or any console games that have PC versions, I believe they figured that only fan people, or users that do not have a lot of access to a pc, or do not have the systems specs needed, will convert games over to console. Remember I am only talking about games that are on the pc then made into a console game (there are exceptions, cause we all can name at least one game that is better on console then on pc. So by doing this they add a little more content that drastically changes the game as a whole. I.E. the extensive ability to use more adrenaline combo's in one session on the console version rather then its pc counterpart. So in essence they prefer you buy the game on the PC as well as on the console knowing more content is available on one then the other. It is all part of marketing a little to one and more to another, but they are the same game. Yes they may have not recieved the funds needed from consumers to pay off production cost of the console version, but that is only half of it. They still have the PC version that is the bigger hit, so they still won if you think about it. And if you deny that, then ask them were they got the money to start the production of 2k7. Think of the pc version as the full-time job and the console version as the part time job. They are still getting there money, because they have achieved there goal of satisfying there many diverse audience.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[snoogans460]

I loved this game, when I played it, or, better said, when I was able to play it. Three factors that helped bring the game down, mainly by limiting the attractivenss of the game to anyone outside of the hardcore audience:

Busty, near-naked girl on the cover - many gamers have to run their game purchasing decisions by an adult, or have the games purchased for them by an adult. Those folks won't be getting a copy. Then there are the general impressions that come from the cover, for those who buy games for themselves. Is this a quality game? If so, why are the developers relying on sex to sell the game? Is the gameplay that shallow? Game developers need to grow out of the 17-year old mentality if they want games to be massively successful. Shooters that tack on some soft-core porn are symptomatic of a developer that lacks confidence in his ability to make a strong game on gameplay alone.

Lack of marketing/poor marketing, combined with a poorly planned release date. This game was made for a hardcore audience and marketed as such. Marketing to mass consumers is better accomplished without showing gameplay. The "Jump In" ads that Microsoft ran for the Xbox 360 are a good example of this. Releasing in the shadow of Halo 2 was also a poor decision.

Poor Support - Epic killed their own game with poor support. Word travels quickly on the internet and many people wait for user reviews to inform their puchasing decision. Lag and various netcode issues made a game that was focused on multiplayer unplayable. Call of Duty 2 on the Xbox 360 suffered the same fate, only to experience a total reversal when the developers released a patch. It is now the number one played game on Xbox Live (on the 360). But
Call of Duty 2 was the only decent shooter released with the 360. It sold well initially, in spite of its flaws, because there were no other options. UC2 did not enjoy such luxury.

In spite of balance and other design issues with Halo 2, the game is very approachable, especially from the multiplayer aspect. This is an oft understimated reason for Halo 2's popularity. This is something that UC2 lacked and (for all I know) lacks still.

Unreal Championship 2 is one of my all time favorite games. I pray that Epic releases a third version (keeping the melee and adrenaline aspects) and that it is a success.


Ok, what you said is so true. But you have to understand that marketing deals with people actually getting off there couch and getting the game. After that the statistical numbers regarding who returned it, throw it away, etc., does not count. So yes in a since the numbers are much smaller if you count that, but the marketing of this game will layout what the title of this topic is about, SALES. Not flaming, downing you, or discouraging you, but marketing plays most of the role when it comes to the numbers. We will all agree that Epic could have done much more to bring the community up by re-establishing the servers, and adding more content. Even a version a UCeditor would be great if it came with a keyboard and mouse set-up. I believe that gaming on the PC will become terribly expense, and console systems will take over as soon as they create a way to implement K/B besides third party vendor apps and hardware that void the warranty. But that is more off the subject. In my oppinion I believe that these next gen consoles are getting too much glory, and not adapting to the capabilities of a pc.

Let's think about it. The xbox is a pc, but with very little capibilities that are "locked". A console game is so much easier, and cost much less, to play games with and develop. One game on conlose system = one set of code + graphics + movies + whatever. And guess what, you don't have to upgrade to the best graphics card in order to have all of the specs up. And the developers don't have to re-edit there code cause a few people can't do something. So in my eyes whoever makes the intergration of a new portable gaming pc console (like my new name for the next big console) first will soon show that the ratings for gaming will be off the meter. And then, only then, will console games become the number one choice then a pc.

Well said guys. I'm convinced myself that marketing will always be issue. I'm not saying that it's needed to the fullest extent, but it definitely helps - especially if you plan to reach a mainstream audience. As it was pointed out however, UC2 was obviously geared and developed towards more hard-core gamers, and evidence of this is clear in our community today.

Next, Epic's lack of support in many areas clearly affected the longevity of this title. If they would've made a more consistent effort to patch this game at least more than once, released a second batch of DLC, and kept a few more dedicated servers running, I'm almost certain that many gamers would've stuck around much longer.

Ya know, it's really too bad that Epic didn't take another 6 months to fine-tune UC2's online component, tweak a few balancing issues, and ultimately release the game on 360's launch day. If that would've been the case, this game would've been polished to the max and it would still be selling like hot-cakes. After all, even mediocre games will sell in abundance with the release of a next-gen system.

Once Halo 2 was made available to LIVE gamers, nearly every game in it's wake was sorely over-looked (UC2 being one of them). Halo 2 literally killed the hopes of every other online community - sad, but true.

Venom, many great points my man, but one thing I have to disagree on. Consoles need to stay as console friendly as possible. If they start becoming PC hybrids with keyboard / mouse controls - this will become a nightmare, especially for online gaming.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

Snoogans, I am not going to change your mind about kb/m on a console. But, our world has always been about making things easier, smaller and portable. PC's aren't that friendly when it comes to hauling it over to someones house to play it because neither of you have internet or want to reduce the lag, or taking it from one room to another with ease. So they invented the laptop. Now there is an idea, let's create a smaller version pc that most companies won't allow you to change out it's part's and is much more expensive. But for the poor folks that wanna get a laptop only to play games can't turn to a system with great options and features that is needed to play these new games coming out, and that require a kb/m set-up for better performance. So the next best thing they have out is a console. Don't forget now that these consoles ARE pc's. Motherboards, graphics cards, memory, even cmos and bios are in these systems, as well as a unique os. So in my opinion the only thing that will suck about having a kb/m set-up on a console is not having a decent place to put it to get that comfortable feel. The great part about that is there will be options available to use which ever set-up you want. The part you DON'T have to worry about is getting another video card for it to run smoothly. Man just talking about it makes me wanna create my own gaming system. But I am not that smart. I will stick to programming games.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

Venom;

The advantage that consoles have over PCs (which you pointed to in your prior post) is that they are uniform in their composition. This is true from a game development point of view, and also from a game community point of view.

Adding Mouse & Keyboard support to consoles so that people can have the "option", as you put it, destroys input uniformity. Now you have some gamers with controllers and some with K/M input. They handle differently, which promotes disparity in performance that is not based on skill, but equipment, which would take the console out of its position of strength. The PS3 appears to be moving in this direction, probably because Sony doesn't know what to do with it, they are throwing everything at it. With Xbox, everything is unified, the controls, the online setup, etc. That is the beauty of console gaming. What you propose would destroy that balance. Besides, many console users choose the console to AVOID the K/M input.

On top of all of that, now that you have input devices that perform differently (assuming your wish comes true, Heaven forbid) developers have to figure out how to code the game to cater to both audiences. Precision shooting with K/M, or looser controls with more auto aim for the controller. If they try both, they will make trash. What you propose, Venom, is disaster.

The reason K/M works on PC is that it is the default (and virtually only) input device. "Mix and match" does not work. Keep your K/M for your PC and let the console well enough alone with its controller, in whatever form it may take.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

I am still not going to change ideas. But I still think big sells will be made when it comes to having a kb/m. Everyone knows that most FPS are not meant for controllers. Maybe slower moving games. But even UC should be played with a k/b and m. Just like driving games are better played with a driving controller, or a game like time crisis needs a gun. A lot of people are saying that kb/m should not be used, but look at the past. People thought guns shouldn't be used for some games and they were quickly shot down when duck hunt came out. Now in the development point of view, mapping a layout of keyboard instructions is one of the easiest parts to do when it comes to a game. Honestly in my game it only took me 30 minutes to have a default layout, an option to change keystrokes, and to nest it within the game loop main instructions. It is not that difficult. Yes pc has always had the default set-up of a kb/m. But I @#%$#% believe we should not think that a challenge in a game is dealing with a controller when a kb/m could work out better.

I understand snoogans cause he doesn't like a kb/m anyways. But with having an option means opening more doors to consumers that would prefer one type over the other. Fine if you want to stick with play FPS on a controller then go ahead. It just does not seem natural accurate to have one. I would also debate playing mechassault with a controller. Here's why!!!

If you have to press more than one button to activate a particular move, then you need something that can compensate for that by reducing the button combination to one. I should not have to enter in a code just to start an adrenaline. Everyone will have there strong points and there weaknesses. And with that everyone should be balanced as they can when competing against one another. For instance billy is playing bob wants to have a competition against each other. Now billy says lets play UC2. Though bob doesn't know that billy is the best player when it comes to playing this game with a controller. And bob is the best at UT2004 playing with a kb/m. They both want the competition to be fair and to bring all that they have. So they practice on the game they aren't that good at to get the feel of the difference. Now competition day comes and billy wins in UC2, and bob whens on UT2004. But if we gave billy a controller to play UT2k4 there may be a possiblity that he may when against bob. And if bob had a kb/m to play UC2 then he may have a better chance at beating billy.

It all comes down to the actual comfortability level when playing a game. Honestly I would be much better playing UC2 with a kb/m cause I feel that I can get more accuracy out of a mouse, and switch between weapons much easier. This may save me from a frag by shaving 5 seconds off from switching and aiming.

[legacy-soehaloe]

what does that mean (sorry im dutch english is my 2nd languene)

I'm Belgian, so Dutch is my first language too :)

€70 is a total rip-off!!!

-exchange rate- we tell eachother how much we paid for the awesome UC2 game [face_nerd]
lol counterzeus, im iron fist from pwnation[face_wink]

yes i know it was a rip-off but ya know i really wanted the game..

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

ok.....this thread has now become a novel

[snoogans460]

Wow, what else can I really chime in with? You guys definitely covered all aspects from each viewpoint.

Anyhow, I personally don't have any specific qualms with the keyboard / mouse set-up. In all actuality, I really enjoy the mouse when fraggin online with my PC - it's the keyboard that I detest - so I ultimately use a controller in my left hand for manueverability. I'm happy that many gamers are comfortable with their preference and I don't knock them because of it.

I just feel that PC gaming should stick to the deep customization, while consoles continue catering to the ease of use. Granted, consoles are basically PC's in many ways (as you mentioned), but they also have a market all their own and should remain exclusive from one another - except in the rare occasion. Having unified network play crossing the PC / Console Chasm seems very interesting, but also blurs the line of gaming balance.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

I feel myself defending kb/m for consoles now. Anyways, to make this short, PS3 MAY BE implementing the kb/m set-up. We will see how it turns out. I hope they do so we can look at this from a statistical stand-point of view.

[legacy-KriKKe]

Well, that this game hasn't sold well because of the marketing, is not really the problem for the community I think ...
This game is so freaking awesome, everytime I play it, I enjoy it more than any of my other games
BUT ...
everytime I play this game, it makes me wanna play on Xbox Live, and there we have our major problem... the lag, and you guys can tell what you want, play on servers hosted in your own neighbourhood doens't help, it may be better than when you play on a server from another continent, but there's still lag ... and that totally ruins the gameplay, I mean, this is fast action-shooting, the only thing you don't want to encounter, is lag ... (It's like in any other game, people just don't stay playing on laggy servers ...)
The only way to play with 8 people in multiplayer without lag is via system link, but that isn't really how you can create a large game-community. Everytime I try this game again on xbox live and I see again how laggy all the servers are, it makes me cry inside and think about how good the game would be without the lag.
This gaming community would have been larger from the beginning without the lag, because now most people tried the game online, they saw that every server, no matter what, is kinda laggy, and they sold the game or they put it away for good ...

Ok, what you said is so true. But you have to understand that marketing deals with people actually getting off there couch and getting the game. After that the statistical numbers regarding who returned it, throw it away, etc., does not count. So yes in a since the numbers are much smaller if you count that, but the marketing of this game will layout what the title of this topic is about, SALES. Not flaming, downing you, or discouraging you, but marketing plays most of the role when it comes to the numbers. We will all agree that Epic could have done much more to bring the community up by re-establishing the servers, and adding more content. Even a version a UCeditor would be great if it came with a keyboard and mouse set-up. I believe that gaming on the PC will become terribly expense, and console systems will take over as soon as they create a way to implement K/B besides third party vendor apps and hardware that void the warranty. But that is more off the subject. In my oppinion I believe that these next gen consoles are getting too much glory, and not adapting to the capabilities of a pc.

....


What you say is totally correct, though you forget one important thing, although there IS a lack of marketing, the sales would be much better when the xbox live component of the game had been better or fixed. When you have a general friends list on xbox live of gamers who play all kind of games, you may see some guys playing UC2, but when you ask them if the game is good, they will say: yes, but there's too much lag, so you will respond: well, i'll skip that one then ... so they'll not buy the game and the players from your friends list will start playing other games in the future too, except for the die-hard fans, which is a small community that gets smaller and smaller. When there was no lag nor bugs, their would be much more publicity from gamer-to-gamer and you wouldn't need a good marketing, you'd have lots of gamers who'd hear about UC2, having great gameplay/gameplay etc..., and they would say: damn, have to check that out! Instead of a community getting smaller, you'd create an expanding community.
Then you had the patch, people heard about it, they checked it out, but there were still problems ... there was a boost in the community, but you get the same situation as i wrote before, the community gets smaller and smaller again in time ...
I'm still convinced that UC2 would have had a whole different future when those problems wouldn't have been there, but it wasn't meant to be :( ...

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

That is so true. No one can disagree that the lag lead to the struggle of upholding a great game. We all wish, and some still do, that epic would have kept the servers for us, and fixed the many bugs that was in this game. I think that epic just wanted to keep there pc franchise much hire. I would have loved to see more people in this game. I mean I want to go on live and at least scroll through a long list of servers that I could play on. Now we only hope for individuals would set-up more dedi's. If only the potential could have been seen more to the audience everything would be so different now.

[legacy-Locust-Bait]

I loved this game, when I played it, or, better said, when I was able to play it. Three factors that helped bring the game down, mainly by limiting the attractivenss of the game to anyone outside of the hardcore audience:

Busty, near-naked girl on the cover - many gamers have to run their game purchasing decisions by an adult, or have the games purchased for them by an adult. Those folks won't be getting a copy. Then there are the general impressions that come from the cover, for those who buy games for themselves. Is this a quality game? If so, why are the developers relying on sex to sell the game? Is the gameplay that shallow? Game developers need to grow out of the 17-year old mentality if they want games to be massively successful. Shooters that tack on some soft-core porn are symptomatic of a developer that lacks confidence in his ability to make a strong game on gameplay alone.

Lack of marketing/poor marketing, combined with a poorly planned release date. This game was made for a hardcore audience and marketed as such. Marketing to mass consumers is better accomplished without showing gameplay. The "Jump In" ads that Microsoft ran for the Xbox 360 are a good example of this. Releasing in the shadow of Halo 2 was also a poor decision.

Poor Support - Epic killed their own game with poor support. Word travels quickly on the internet and many people wait for user reviews to inform their puchasing decision. Lag and various netcode issues made a game that was focused on multiplayer unplayable. Call of Duty 2 on the Xbox 360 suffered the same fate, only to experience a total reversal when the developers released a patch. It is now the number one played game on Xbox Live (on the 360). But
Call of Duty 2 was the only decent shooter released with the 360. It sold well initially, in spite of its flaws, because there were no other options. UC2 did not enjoy such luxury.

In spite of balance and other design issues with Halo 2, the game is very approachable, especially from the multiplayer aspect. This is an oft understimated reason for Halo 2's popularity. This is something that UC2 lacked and (for all I know) lacks still.

Unreal Championship 2 is one of my all time favorite games. I pray that Epic releases a third version (keeping the melee and adrenaline aspects) and that it is a success.The first one is what came to mind for me when I first saw this game. It really put it on my "Don't ever play" charts. Sad too because I LOVE bringing a knife into a gun fight.

The second one didn't help to make me more happy about the game since there was nearly no media what-so-ever.

And the last one is whats making gamers that love XBL now stop from buying this game.

The 3 best FPS for consoles are UC2, Halo, & TS (time splitter)

[CounterZeus]

what does that mean (sorry im dutch english is my 2nd languene)

I'm Belgian, so Dutch is my first language too :)

€70 is a total rip-off!!!

-exchange rate- we tell eachother how much we paid for the awesome UC2 game [face_nerd]
lol counterzeus, im iron fist from pwnation[face_wink]

yes i know it was a rip-off but ya know i really wanted the game..

lol iron!!!!!!!!!

[legacy-Oncnawan]

I am still not going to change ideas. But I still think big sells will be made when it comes to having a kb/m. Everyone knows that most FPS are not meant for controllers.

I know that you are not going to change your mind. Relying on "everyone knows" comments makes that readily apparent. But try this on for size:
How will "big sells" be made by allowing keyboard/mouse support in games on a console? You are presuming that a significant number of gamers aren't buying console FPS's for one of two reasons:

They are PC gamers and the only thing keeping them from moving over to consoles is the control scheme (not things like prevalence of good titles, modding, ease of piracy, lack of expense if PC already in the home, etc.). Even if the PS3 has a K/M option, for cross platform games, which will a PC gamer choose - PS3, with K/M, or PC with K/M, mods, active online community, "free games" via piracy, upgradeable platform?

They are console gamers and do not purchase FPS's because of the "poor" control offered by K/M.

You are also assuming that you will not alienate the millions of console users that are trying to avoid playing with or against the K/M.

How will "big sells" be made?

As to your other comment:

Actually, FPS's made for consoles are coded for controllers, and playing with a K/M setup is clumsy, as the game is "meant for controllers". When a developer (a rational one) ports a game from PC to console, it makes any changes necessary to adapt to the controller, like reducing the movement speed of certain enemies because the mouse has faster movement speed.

If a game were developed that allowed both control schemes it would play poorly on one of them or dramatically upset the balance between the two different setups. Try hooking up a controller to your PC and playing one of your FPS's. It will control slowly and inacurately. Put a keyboard and mouse setup on a console FPS and it will either wreck havoc with the movement speed, or provide a significant accuracy advantage to the K/M user.

Allowing K/M controls in a console game will upset the more competitive console community. That will spell serious customer backlash for whichever company decides to do this.

[snoogans460]

Allowing K/M controls in a console game will upset the more competitive console community. That will spell serious customer backlash for whichever company decides to do this.

Word. Consoles would eventually turn the way of the Almighty Dreamcast - although that system was fantastic,

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

The massive walls of text are caving in!!!!!![face_hypnotized]

[legacy-Sparezno-1]

Cuz the nubz with no skill get fed-up and return the game,giving it bad reviewz and discourage otherz from buying it.

[legacy-NecrisFlood]

^heh...that reminds me of my former *so-called* friend back in the day. He'd lose horribly in a game, and then assume...after only giving the game a 5 to 10 minute chance....that "eh, this game sucks."...and he'd move on. The funny thing to me was....he sucked at all games. He was, imo...The Worst Gamer of All Time™, easily. What's even more amusing, is that he always thought so highly of himself, that he usually turned the difficulty on games way up to maximum on his first time playing....which only made it worse on him, when he already lacked skill in anything game-related in the first place. heh, I should've captured some of that on tape somehow....but anyway...

...yeahhhh...less than 150,000 is pathetic, if I didn't say it before. I knew the sales were most likely terrible...but that's even lower than I expected. There truly is no hope for an Unreal Champ3...perhaps in name...but it would definitely just be "another FPS", and most likely ditch all things that made this one great, imo.....it will have all characters as the same, no differences, no fancy aerial movements, super-abilities, etc...it will be "just another FPS", just to be safe. Sadly, it makes sense when it comes down to the money. If you're one of the "suits", and you notice the abysmal sales figures of UC2.....why on earth would you make another one?

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

replay regarding Oncnawan comment

The whole idea is not to convert controller users to kb/m. The goal is to get the people that prefer kb/m over controllers to transfer over their preference so that they can play on the console. I don't think the kb/m will upset people. How can you get mad if they OFFER a kb/m. You don't have to pay for it, and everyone that prefers, or don't even prefer, the controller will get one as the standard. Obviously, you as a consumer have a choice. Not everyone will be thrilled about getting it, but they may change there mind about it.

Since I am looking at the big picture between the PC and console world, the only major difference is kb/m vs controller. Some may argue about that, but I did say the big picture as in stuff that has not been confirmed. Yes there are better communities on PC, but don't think the consoles don't have them, and they aren't getting worse. Yes there are user downloads that can be used for a PC, but you can't dismiss that as something the console world is not exploring. I know so much stuff that may **** your pants. One being fiber optic online connections, virtual reality rooms..... ha ha i won't explain this I wanna see you **** your pants ROFLMAO. You gotta remember that the old generation of creators are fading out, and being replaced by indies. The ideas, and actual alpha work they have is crazy.

I remember steel battalion comming out that had a 62 button controller specifically for that game. Now there where many of people that did not buy it because of the price, maybe. But when speaking with people that did buy it, they prefered it for that game. IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED WITH THAT CONTROLLER. Some games, sorry to say, are just made for kb/m, and FPS is one of them. That does not mean we are gonna say console FPS must be played with it, or you can't use a controller. We are looking at the majority of consumers and statistically looking which option for FPS has the larger input set-up. KB/M wins hands down.

My friend, the day consoles will do all that you mentioned, and what a pc can do is underway. Don't fall shy thinking that the consoles are just going to play games. The whole idea is creating a multimedia box that is truely portable. Can't do that with a pc. You can get a laptop, but the fact remains that if you extract the components of say xbox360 and converted it into laptop parts, you will be paying almost twice as much for that laptop. Check out tom's hardware if you don't believe me.

Then after some time pc and console will merge in actually have user friendly interactive OS to kernal and process all that the will do. Not saying that it is not already in existance, but saying that it will offer more. Man you guys will be shocked. And I hope you say I remember kidvenom82 talking about this. Remember I am from the inside, and creating games with these other developers. They get so tired at times that they will chat with you for awhile. Anyways, everyday they are loosing profit from a lot of modders. And soon they will learn to implement what these modders are doing, and use it to there advantage. So then they WILL add it as a first party application or hardware. Plus PC's are going to get very expensive to play a game, and some developers are quitting there pc projects to work exculsively for the consoles. Don't believe me, then check out http://gamasutra.com/. I go there a lot for advice for me building my game. Even now they are telling indie makers to move to creating console games. Its a project that the community is not going to be aware about, that will smack us in the face. Either you can take me seriously and know that I know a lot of people that can confirm that these things are going to happen, or critisize what i say and dismiss them like I am not being honest. Or just be niave.

Guess i recreated that wall huh lol. But I think you guys really need to know this.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

well stated and all true.

[snoogans460]

Call me crazy, but I still bet that we'll see UC3 eventually. Sales or not, the developers created something truly out-of-the-ordinary.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

I feel you snoogs, UC3 will be a site to see. I can't wait for it myself.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

I hope so.

It's a strong possibility that many of the caharacter will just appear in other gmaes... but who really knows at this point.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

We can only cross our fingers and hope for the best.

[legacy-ahMEmon]

I hope Epic is too smart to let this very unique game die. I really do hope that they come out with a part 3 or at least a "remix" of the game.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

If they could refine it like the same as UT2003->UT2004, man I KNOW the next version would rock.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

replay regarding Oncnawan comment

The whole idea is not to convert controller users to kb/m. The goal is to get the people that prefer kb/m over controllers to transfer over their preference so that they can play on the console. I don't think the kb/m will upset people. How can you get mad if they OFFER a kb/m. You don't have to pay for it, and everyone that prefers, or don't even prefer, the controller will get one as the standard. Obviously, you as a consumer have a choice. Not everyone will be thrilled about getting it, but they may change there mind about it.

Did you seriously miss my entire point? The issue is not about money, but gameplay. If one input device is more advantageous to use then the other camp will be upset. As all computer gamers claim, the K/M setup is superior for FPS based on precision and control of cross-hair movement speed. If most people who currently play FPS on the console prefer the controller (not an unreasonable assumption to make) and they are outclassed in games because of hardware and not skill, there will be a huge upset in the gamer community. How can you not see this? This is not about buying the K/M, but playing against people who are using a K/M in an environment where the controller is standard. Many people play consoles to get away from all of the nonsense that accompanies PC gaming. Don't bring your baggage to the console. Keep it on your PC.

As to all of your talk about virtual reality and console development, I presume you are saying that as development dollars are shifting to the console, more PC gamers will shift to the console, creating higher demand for a keyboard/mouse option. If PC gaming does lose a significant number of gamers to the consoles, then let them play console games, with a console controller. Don't try to steal our toy just because you broke your own.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

replay regarding Oncnawan comment

The whole idea is not to convert controller users to kb/m. The goal is to get the people that prefer kb/m over controllers to transfer over their preference so that they can play on the console. I don't think the kb/m will upset people. How can you get mad if they OFFER a kb/m. You don't have to pay for it, and everyone that prefers, or don't even prefer, the controller will get one as the standard. Obviously, you as a consumer have a choice. Not everyone will be thrilled about getting it, but they may change there mind about it.

Did you seriously miss my entire point? The issue is not about money, but gameplay. If one input device is more advantageous to use then the other camp will be upset. As all computer gamers claim, the K/M setup is superior for FPS based on precision and control of cross-hair movement speed. If most people who currently play FPS on the console prefer the controller (not an unreasonable assumption to make) and they are outclassed in games because of hardware and not skill, there will be a huge upset in the gamer community. How can you not see this? This is not about buying the K/M, but playing against people who are using a K/M in an environment where the controller is standard. Many people play consoles to get away from all of the nonsense that accompanies PC gaming. Don't bring your baggage to the console. Keep it on your PC.

As to all of your talk about virtual reality and console development, I presume you are saying that as development dollars are shifting to the console, more PC gamers will shift to the console, creating higher demand for a keyboard/mouse option. If PC gaming does lose a significant number of gamers to the consoles, then let them play console games, with a console controller. Don't try to steal our toy just because you broke your own.

LOL that is funny. No point setting the tone for this arguement. But your point was not missed. You see, I don't think you are very aware of the reasoning console games were, infact, created. If you missed it the whole deal was created off of one phrase, interactive entertainment with simplicity. how can you call playing a FPS on a controller simple, if that individual can't do it. But of course everyone knows what they were for. Now you sit and say PC gamers, or vice versa, will get upset if a k/m existed on the console. What about people walking in a store, see a FPS on the console, and put it back cause there is no kb/m? Then the market lost out on there share. Why can't it be a choice? Or life is built off choices. We see that it works great, but the downside is that if we can't afford a PC that can run these games, then oh well. We get the crap. Well only for some of us. And we as a community lost a true competitor. To honestly say that you truely know the reasoning behind the console, then stating a simple input device such as a kb is something that should have been available from the start. Better yet input devices for any game should have been a second choice. We should have been interacting with the box off top. But or technology has to catch up. And that is a totally different topic. But I may get to that in a second.

I feel like you also didn't read everything I said either. If you don't want it, don't get it. But you, nor I, can say that the majority will either be happy about it or mad about it. It is not about standards, becuase many of standards didn't own up just cause something was better, or faded out. Or, a standard seemed reasonable, and we all stuck with it, besides taking a chance to see if something else can work. and in this fact it has proven to work. I play with my k/b all the time, except online cause xbox will ban your account if they see you with a modded xbox. Anyways, if you think gameplay with it will not work, well you can thank some of your third party modders that made it work with no fault.

Now I am going to get very personal here. You mean to tell me people would rather get upset because a Kb/M exist on a console, rather then finding the right competition. The we have to have people like shred create a whole new game on the pc to have the same engine and capabilities of that on the console version. I mean I congrats to shred and all the modders, but they shouldn't be doing something that should have been done for starters. The dumbest idea of trying to control and aim with a levitated thumbstick should be something that nobody has to stress about, unless you find it ver y useful. I think that it is very unfair and unmoral to create a title game that works best with an input device that is available, and not have a fair community because of it. Why can't we use whatever we please, and even out competition in a game besides get mad cause it was out on the PC first. So freakin what. Games are about competition. A simple use of a kb/m should never have been looked over in the first place. Or FPS's shouldn't have been made for console games if they weren't going to use it. UC2 is a prime example. We talk about how the community sucks. But then we say kb/m shouldn't be used. I don't get it. A lot of people agree that it was A: Marketing and B: Noobs getting there a## kicked because aiming wasn't in there favor, and they got owned. C: they didn't have experience, yet!?!

You know what, I would be a Godlike player if a keyboard and mouse was available. Yes it will totally change the community. But the thing about these games is competitiveness. How can you feel good about beating someone that didn't give it there all? How can you claim true victory when he was handicaped due to a controller? That is why I never take this game seriously, or any FPS's for the matter. The same goes for PC. I wanna see a community were the best of the best has everything they need, and pit them head to head to find a true victor. The only thing that is close it is PS3 interacting with PC, and even that is confirmed. Well why wasn't that done before. No system, input device, as well as having the perfect environment, not being bothered or uncomfortable due to your surrondings, is the only real way to find the best. And we don't have that because there is always more than two variants that makes the difference between winning and loosing, and removing lag is the only thing that you expect to claim you are the best. (I am not saying you in particular). Dont you think the community is mad about it anyways? We as humans always look at things as what they are now, and if they work why change it. What about make a change see if it works and stick with it. Or give options. Like I said it will be nothing for programmers to add a feature of seperating kb/m and controller users, or blended. That is why I praise nintendo wii and the dc lite. At least they aren't scared of a change.

How do you know that you can beat someone that has a controller? I know plenty of people that surpassed the learning curve of using one, and demolished the idea that aiming sucks on a controller. I know people that is a natural with a controller, and will play shooters as if he were on keyboard. the problem there is it takes a lot of practice. in my oppinion a true masters of a controller is more experienced then a keyboard user simply because they have to engage in more brainpower. It is so easy to aim, change weapons, and strategize with a keyboard But that is totally my oppinon. And who said the controller is broken? What you offer is something that most people do. And that is not fair. In order to be a true master at something he has to undergo every option available and come out victorious.

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

replay regarding Oncnawan comment

The whole idea is not to convert controller users to kb/m. The goal is to get the people that prefer kb/m over controllers to transfer over their preference so that they can play on the console. I don't think the kb/m will upset people. How can you get mad if they OFFER a kb/m. You don't have to pay for it, and everyone that prefers, or don't even prefer, the controller will get one as the standard. Obviously, you as a consumer have a choice. Not everyone will be thrilled about getting it, but they may change there mind about it.

Did you seriously miss my entire point? The issue is not about money, but gameplay. If one input device is more advantageous to use then the other camp will be upset. As all computer gamers claim, the K/M setup is superior for FPS based on precision and control of cross-hair movement speed. If most people who currently play FPS on the console prefer the controller (not an unreasonable assumption to make) and they are outclassed in games because of hardware and not skill, there will be a huge upset in the gamer community. How can you not see this? This is not about buying the K/M, but playing against people who are using a K/M in an environment where the controller is standard. Many people play consoles to get away from all of the nonsense that accompanies PC gaming. Don't bring your baggage to the console. Keep it on your PC.

As to all of your talk about virtual reality and console development, I presume you are saying that as development dollars are shifting to the console, more PC gamers will shift to the console, creating higher demand for a keyboard/mouse option. If PC gaming does lose a significant number of gamers to the consoles, then let them play console games, with a console controller. Don't try to steal our toy just because you broke your own.

LOL that is funny. No point setting the tone for this arguement. But your point was not missed. You see, I don't think you are very aware of the reasoning console games were, infact, created. If you missed it the whole deal was created off of one phrase, interactive entertainment with simplicity. how can you call playing a FPS on a controller simple, if that individual can't do it. But of course everyone knows what they were for. Now you sit and say PC gamers, or vice versa, will get upset if a k/m existed on the console. What about people walking in a store, see a FPS on the console, and put it back cause there is no kb/m? Then the market lost out on there share. Why can't it be a choice? Or life is built off choices. We see that it works great, but the downside is that if we can't afford a PC that can run these games, then oh well. We get the crap. Well only for some of us. And we as a community lost a true competitor. To honestly say that you truely know the reasoning behind the console, then stating a simple input device such as a kb is something that should have been available from the start. Better yet input devices for any game should have been a second choice. We should have been interacting with the box off top. But or technology has to catch up. And that is a totally different topic. But I may get to that in a second.

I feel like you also didn't read everything I said either. If you don't want it, don't get it. But you, nor I, can say that the majority will either be happy about it or mad about it. It is not about standards, becuase many of standards didn't own up just cause something was better, or faded out. Or, a standard seemed reasonable, and we all stuck with it, besides taking a chance to see if something else can work. and in this fact it has proven to work. I play with my k/b all the time, except online cause xbox will ban your account if they see you with a modded xbox. Anyways, if you think gameplay with it will not work, well you can thank some of your third party modders that made it work with no fault.

Now I am going to get very personal here. You mean to tell me people would rather get upset because a Kb/M exist on a console, rather then finding the right competition. The we have to have people like shred create a whole new game on the pc to have the same engine and capabilities of that on the console version. I mean I congrats to shred and all the modders, but they shouldn't be doing something that should have been done for starters. The dumbest idea of trying to control and aim with a levitated thumbstick should be something that nobody has to stress about, unless you find it ver y useful. I think that it is very unfair and unmoral to create a title game that works best with an input device that is available, and not have a fair community because of it. Why can't we use whatever we please, and even out competition in a game besides get mad cause it was out on the PC first. So freakin what. Games are about competition. A simple use of a kb/m should never have been looked over in the first place. Or FPS's shouldn't have been made for console games if they weren't going to use it. UC2 is a prime example. We talk about how the community sucks. But then we say kb/m shouldn't be used. I don't get it. A lot of people agree that it was A: Marketing and B: Noobs getting there a## kicked because aiming wasn't in there favor, and they got owned. C: they didn't have experience, yet!?!

You know what, I would be a Godlike player if a keyboard and mouse was available. Yes it will totally change the community. But the thing about these games is competitiveness. How can you feel good about beating someone that didn't give it there all? How can you claim true victory when he was handicaped due to a controller? That is why I never take this game seriously, or any FPS's for the matter. The same goes for PC. I wanna see a community were the best of the best has everything they need, and pit them head to head to find a true victor. The only thing that is close it is PS3 interacting with PC, and even that is confirmed. Well why wasn't that done before. No system, input device, as well as having the perfect environment, not being bothered or uncomfortable due to your surrondings, is the only real way to find the best. And we don't have that because there is always more than two variants that makes the difference between winning and loosing, and removing lag is the only thing that you expect to claim you are the best. (I am not saying you in particular). Dont you think the community is mad about it anyways? We as humans always look at things as what they are now, and if they work why change it. What about make a change see if it works and stick with it. Or give options. Like I said it will be nothing for programmers to add a feature of seperating kb/m and controller users, or blended. That is why I praise nintendo wii and the dc lite. At least they aren't scared of a change.

How do you know that you can beat someone that has a controller? I know plenty of people that surpassed the learning curve of using one, and demolished the idea that aiming sucks on a controller. I know people that is a natural with a controller, and will play shooters as if he were on keyboard. the problem there is it takes a lot of practice. in my oppinion a true masters of a controller is more experienced then a keyboard user simply because they have to engage in more brainpower. It is so easy to aim, change weapons, and strategize with a keyboard But that is totally my oppinon. And who said the controller is broken? What you offer is something that most people do. And that is not fair. In order to be a true master at something he has to undergo every option available and come out victorious.

can u sum that up in three words?

i cant read long lists of text

[legacy-Oncnawan]

I'll sum it up for you. "I want K/M."

or, "I want all consoles to be the same as the PC."

or, "If I had K/M, I would be good."

[legacy-Oncnawan]

The PC is an open platform. Choose your hardware, choose your input device. The console is designed to be a closed system. Everyone has the same hardware and the same input device. If you want to play with K/M, play on PC. If you are upset about the consoles getting sweet games that are not available on PC, welcome to the party, console games don't get a great many games that are out on PC. The platforms are different for a reason. Your inability to compete at the level you desire with a controller is not sufficient reason to destroy the balance that exists on a console.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

I'll sum it up for you. "I want K/M."

or, "I want all consoles to be the same as the PC."

or, "If I had K/M, I would be good."


don't mock me. I am not saying I can't play at all. I think I will shut up and watch.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

The PC is an open platform. Choose your hardware, choose your input device. The console is designed to be a closed system. Everyone has the same hardware and the same input device. If you want to play with K/M, play on PC. If you are upset about the consoles getting sweet games that are not available on PC, welcome to the party, console games don't get a great many games that are out on PC. The platforms are different for a reason. Your inability to compete at the level you desire with a controller is not sufficient reason to destroy the balance that exists on a console.

You will not get it till it comes out. LOL i will be coming back here and just rubing it in your face.

[snoogans460]

This thread could be published as a PC vs. Console Novel.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

Yeah there killing any post I've ever made on the matter/...LOL

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

It is not that I wanted this to be a PC vs. Console. I am a person that has inside info on a lot of things that are going to happen. I felt the need to let everyone know what's in production. for my game there will be a special controller due to a bundle of moves that a standard can't control. So after talking with a developer about this they mentioned more that they have in development. Third party right now, but is a must when this is finished.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

This is not a PC v. Console discussion. The PC is a fine platform. The Consoles are also fine platforms. Let them be as they are.

[legacy-Kid_Venom82]

Sorry to say that it will change. Unless you are head of what's going on. You can either except it, or not. that is your only option.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

I love how people hat on the option.

What it is: they know it's uperior in control but don't want to adjust (lazy), thus don't want it for those who know who to use it....laim.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

I love how people hat on the option.

What it is: they know it's uperior in control but don't want to adjust (lazy), thus don't want it for those who know who to use it....laim.

Shred, go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better. Or, you could open up your mind to a new paradigm, and realize that some people prefer to sit on their couch with the controller cradled loosely in their hands, as opposed to hunching over a mouse and keyboard. Perhaps this will make more sense to you if you realize that you and your kind are a minority among gamers. Your numbers are so small that your opinions are immaterial in the face of the mass of gamers who don't think and play as you.

Most gamers aren't hyper-competitive. They don't want a control mechanism that will offer more precision at the expense of comfortable gameplay. Most gamers don't measure their worth by their position on a leaderboard. Most people play games to have fun and use other criteria to measure their self-worth. How do we know this? Halo 2. Halo 2 is easy to learn and fun to play. As such, it will be ever more successful than UC2 and similar games that appeal to the "hardcore" players who make learning a game their life.

But, go ahead speculating as to the reasoning of millions of gamers you cannot comprehend. Stay huddled inside your little 10'x10'x10' world, mocking people that not only do not care what you are saying, they don't even hear you.

[snoogans460]

Most gamers aren't hyper-competitive. They don't want a control mechanism that will offer more precision at the expense of comfortable gameplay. Most gamers don't measure their worth by their position on a leaderboard. Most people play games to have fun and use other criteria to measure their self-worth. How do we know this? Halo 2. Halo 2 is easy to learn and fun to play.

This definitely brings up a good point, and one that solidifies the long-debated argument over the PC / Console control issue that gamers are subjected to.

Saying that we each measure our own skill and worth by our own particular gaming preferences, can also be applied to other areas in life - in the same way that kids in school shouldn't be graded at the same level, bit instead, be graded by their own standards. Why? It's simple... Everyone is different and this needs to be embraced.

Essentially, it's not about whether each control scheme is the most advantageous to gamers, but ultimately what each individual prefers.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

Essentially, it's not about whether each control scheme is the most advantageous to gamers, but ultimately what each individual prefers.

But what you are saying means that playing games is about having fun. Can this be true?

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

Most gamers aren't hyper-competitive. They don't want a control mechanism that will offer more precision at the expense of comfortable gameplay. Most gamers don't measure their worth by their position on a leaderboard. Most people play games to have fun and use other criteria to measure their self-worth. How do we know this? Halo 2. Halo 2 is easy to learn and fun to play.

This definitely brings up a good point, and one that solidifies the long-debated argument over the PC / Console control issue that gamers are subjected to.

Saying that we each measure our own skill and worth by our own particular gaming preferences, can also be applied to other areas in life - in the same way that kids in school shouldn't be graded at the same level, bit instead, be graded by their own standards. Why? It's simple... Everyone is different and this needs to be embraced.

Essentially, it's not about whether each control scheme is the most advantageous to gamers, but ultimately what each individual prefers.


Agreed, but the point here is that it's a FU&ing OPTION....OTION OPTIN OTPTION.....

A FARGING OPTION!!!!!

NOt Directed at you Snoogs BTW.....

I just want the choice to max on the couch....or get precise.

I like BOTH!!!!!!!!!!

[legacy-Oncnawan]

Agreed, but the point here is that it's a FU&ing OPTION....OTION OPTIN OTPTION.....

A FARGING OPTION!!!!!

NOt Directed at you Snoogs BTW.....

I just want the choice to max on the couch....or get precise.

I like BOTH!!!!!!!!!!

Are the options equal? Your post indicates that the K/M is more precise and, therefore, will yield better performance. As a logical result, for multiplayer purposes, there is no choice. The only option is the K/M, as it is the option that will be used by some gamers, giving them an edge. Any gamer that wants to have fun by having performance depend on skill and not hardware MUST choose to play with the K/M.

The "option" of K/M destroys all other options. How many "choose" the option of controller on PC? Not many. Why? It puts them at a disadvantage in online play. Don't just think about what you want, think about what it will do to the entire game.

[legacy-ShredPrince2]

true, but laziness=death

Im grew up a console only player man, and only play PC for UT.

KB&M is just superior for FPS games dude either way you slice it.

Now if you are'nt intresested enough in learning to use a superior tool then thats your problem.

It has been stated many ties that it's highly likeley the game will support keyboard on consoles.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

true, but laziness=death

It has been stated many ties that it's highly likeley the game will support keyboard on consoles.


Would you care to link to a source other than a forum fanboy for "stated many ties (sic)"?

But, assuming your statement to be true, for which platform? Microsoft has made no indication that they are willing to allow K/M use for gameplay, as evidenced by FFXI, in which the keyboard is only used for text input.


true, but laziness=death

Now if you are'nt intresested enough in learning to use a superior tool then thats your problem.



I have used the K/M for FPS on the console and I prefer it for what it does, on the PC. However, this isn't about me, and, despite what you think, it isn't about you either. The fact that we are posting on a games forum indicates that we are part of a small minority of gamers. Try looking at the vast majority of gamers whose opinion will drive the market. When you understand what they want, you will understand why K/M is a poor choice for console control.

What is the hottest platform for gaming today? Mobile phones, followed by dedicated handheld systems (mostly the DS). Why? Easy to play, easy to program for. Virtually no chance of a "hardcore" game being made for them. Those are the people whose dollars drive the industry. Do you think that Microsoft wants to alienate that demographic by allowing K/M on console? How about user mods? Cheats? Variable hardware specs?

Of all the platforms, the PS3 is the most likely to support these options, and it is the most likely to tank because of it. Microsoft maintains a carefully controlled environment on its console. They maintain control over all peripherals, all games, all servers (except EA's). Why? So that they can protect the console from becoming a PC. MS and Nintendo understand the importance of maintaining the console environment and you won't see them supporting K/M, among other things.

Try to understand that it is not about you or me. I know this is hard. You have years' worth of gaming experience. You know your gaming performance best and you know what it is like to game across multiple platforms as a competitor, a digital athlete. That makes you uniquely qualified to NOT be an expert on what to do with the industry, any more than a Navy Seal would be qualified to design an urban fitness center for professionals. Don't turn this into you versus me, because we don't count any more than Kid_Venom's unique crystal-ball-insights into the gaming industry's future.

[snoogans460]

When it comes right down to precision and dodging, yes I'll agree, the K/M set-up is unquestionably superior - now given that fact, this doesn't mean it's innately better, or more to the point... Fun (my opinion). Especially when the majority of console gamers would agree that using a controller for FPS's is obviously more intuitive and user-friendly.

On the other side of the coin, most (hell, almost ALL) PC gamers are going to side with their favorite control scheme, just as Console individuals have their preference. I say, respect each other's most-desired platform for what they each provide. If someone has the extremely competitive itch to frag on a PC, then let them migrate to that system - and same goes for the console gamer.

Personally, I enjoy both and it all really depends on my mood at any given time. Overall though, if I had to choose, I simply enjoy playing FPS's on a console more because of the closed and more monitored feel. Sure, I'm probably biased because I've invested more time into becoming comfortable with a controller rather than practicing on a keyboard - but ultimately, that's my choice because it feels more natural.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

I may be wrong in all of this. If the controller can be as efficient, over all, as a K/M combo, then there will be no problem and people can just play with the control mechanism that suits them. I just foresee problems occuring if the two control schemes are unequal. I suppose that Shadowrun will be an excellent opportunity to determine the answer to this question.

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

I may be wrong in all of this. If the controller can be as efficient, over all, as a K/M combo, then there will be no problem and people can just play with the control mechanism that suits them. I just foresee problems occuring if the two control schemes are unequal. I suppose that Shadowrun will be an excellent opportunity to determine the answer to this question.

stop trolling these forums[face_angry]

[legacy-Oncnawan]

stop trolling these forums[face_angry]

We are having a discussion about a topic of interest among UC2 players, so you can leave, Napoleon.

[legacy-x_ZerK_x]

no matter what these guys say your just gonna say the opposite so realy theres no point in this discussion because its going nowhere fast.

[legacy-Oncnawan]

no matter what these guys say your just gonna say the opposite so realy theres no point in this discussion because its going nowhere fast.
Except that no one has actually addressed any of the points that I have raised in an analytic, logical manner. Shred has his obvious preferences and Venom has his crystal ball. Neither of those obviate the need to look at the interests of gamers as a market and the resultant incentives that drive decision making by the console makers.