First Details on Next-Gen UT

[The_Deacon]

LINKAGE

Pics reputedly floating around IRC but I don't know where and can't connect to irc anyway.

Anyway, read article, rejoice (or complain or whatever :p )

[legacy-Retodon8]

I didn't visit BU yet today, so thanks for the link.
I'd better save any pictures, just in case Epic asks those sites to remove them.

[legacy-Rubberhead]

Cool.
Seems they're really looking into the gameplay wich is a good thing.
I'd like some more details about conquest mode tough.
And wich gametypes are left out?

[legacy-Grimlock]

http://img173.exs.cx/img173/6651/ut2006dontsueusmmkay1ty.jpg

The May 2005 issue of Computer Gaming World magazine contains the first screenshots and information on the next, Unreal Engine 3 powered Unreal Tournament game, including incredible revelations about the massive new Conquest gametype.

The article refers to the game as "the next Unreal Tournament", suggesting that the game's full title is as yet undecided. Midway have previously confirmed that no new UT titles will be shipping in 2005, so it's likely that this game will bear the name "Unreal Tournament 2006" or "Unreal Tournament 2007". It's also possible that Epic have ditched the yearly naming convention altogether... only time will tell. Scans from the article currently doing the rounds on IRC show a silver and black Unreal 'U' logo on the magazine's cover, and a rather detailed Necris character standing outside next to some sort of vehicle on the first page of the article itself. Other screenshots reportedly include UE3-powered Malcolm, as well as next-gen versions of the Goliath tank, Scorpion buggy and armor concept art.

Details of the game are sketchy at the moment, however we can report that Epic programmer Steve Polge is the game's Lead Designer, with Jim Brown filling the role of Lead Level Designer. The article also tells of Epic's desire to put gameplay above graphics with the next UT, as demonstrated by the fact that the title's programming is currently "ahead" of its art.

Unfortunately we cannot post scans of the article here on BU (for fear of provoking the wrath of the killer zombie lawyer army of doom), so don't ask, however we will update this story with more information as it becomes available.

Update - 27 Mar 05 9:45PM EST by RaptoR: As promised, here are some more details from the article, courtesy of BU forumer placebo and drboom...

* The next UT will feature 11 weapons. No specific details on these yet.
* The game will focus on AI, specifically voice-controlled AI.
* As with many UT2004 levels, the layout of maps in the next UT is being finalized before artwork is incorporated.
* The game will feature a global ratings system that will allow clans to compare scores.
* Gametypes include Onslaught, DM, TDM, CTF, and the all-new Conquest mode. No mention of Assault or Domination.
* Further info on the Conquest gametype:
o Features eight teams, each with unique armor.
o Conquest maps are "potentially as large as three onslaught maps with assault-like objectives and even a form of limited resource management planned"
o "there may be the option to treat a conquest match like a long term war, so you can play, take a break, and then go back and play more later"
o "you can use your stats to find similarly abled opponents"
o "pre-game lobbies" will be present in some form
o "clan pages and other sites will be able to be viewed from within the game"
o "conquest will take advantage of the UE3 engines ability to seamlessly stream maps by putting you in a battlefield the size of several maps stitched together"
o "players will battle on one of two teams, each sides terriroty will look physically different, as you take a territory it will convert to the otherteams structures and physical surroundings"
o "conquest should appeal to a wider gaming audience and provide a place where longer-term strategy, teamwork, and face-to-face fragging all meet"


http://img173.exs.cx/img173/1240/ut3malcolm5rt.jpg

[legacy-Retodon8]

To add to that link at the bottom, these look UE3 as well:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/unrealchampionship2theliandriconflict/screens.html?page=118
http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/666/666679/img_2481281.html?fromint=1
Her "armour" is a bit different from UC2 Selket.

[legacy-Grimlock]

No they don't they look UC2 because thats what they are.

[legacy-Retodon8]

Are you referring to my post?
They don't look like UC2, because they are from UC2?
I don't see the logic...
Look at the higher polycount, the high resolution texturing and the fancy shaders, looks like UE3 to me, just like that rendition of Malcolm.

I just noticed there are 2 copies of the first screenie, and only one (the one I linked to) has the annoying logo at the bottom.

[legacy-Grimlock]

I meant to say "No they don't look like UE3, they look like UC2 because thats what they are. "

If by some fluke chance they are UE3 shots (UC2 model rendered in UE3) then a) gamespot need to sort their **** out b) Epic shouldn't use that model to showcase UE3.

Personally I think they look nothing alike.

If you think they are both on UE3 you should visit an optician.

[legacy-Retodon8]

You are kidding, right?
I should see an optician???
Look at some of the screenshots made with UE2X:
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue2x.shtml
Now look at some made with UE3:
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml

UE2(x) is a nice piece of work, but it really doesn't look as good as UE3.
Pay attention to the bricks in the wall for instance, or the stones in the floor, or even Selket's stomach area...

Done looking? :)
Look at how the armour reflects the sword's light, Selket's own shadow on her arm, the way the light behaves on the wood of the door.

Someone at Epic will probably take notice of this thread, and hopefully they'll clear this up with a post, so I'm in the position to say "I told you so!". :P

[legacy-nELsOn]

hmm... if they are actually ue3 pics then this might as well be a hint to the next UT and its gameplay :)
but on the other hand - maybe they're just some advertisment render pics?!

[legacy-Grimlock]

Those Selket model shots are not UE3.

[legacy-Retodon8]

"Those Selket model shots are not UE3."

I am swayed by your arguments, they are obviously better thought-out than mine, and prove what I just said wrong without a doubt. :)
Like I said, hopefully somebody from Epic can tell us whether or not they are UE3.

[legacy-Grimlock]

This is UE3:

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/1294/unreal71nf.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/9386/cgw1st5gb3lq.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/1008/pbeast5sl.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/9703/pbezerker0bz.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/4493/charactercreation35fr.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/6581/pembry13gc.jpg

http://i139.exs.cx/img139/3504/pembry32bh.jpg

[legacy-Retodon8]

Thanks for cgw1st5gb3lq.jpg, I didn't have that one yet!

[legacy-Von_Luck]

If its true then this conquest gametype sounds a bit
like XMP with its resources and stuff.I wonder if
this will replace onslaught altogether or will there
be an option to turn resources off.Im all for it
personally XMP is great fun although im not keen on
classes.

[legacy-Grimlock]

Doesn't sound anything like XMP.

[legacy-Ictus]

The selket kneeling picture IS UE3.

The picture was never really used for anything, more of an in-house test and I think some magazines got it.

Just a note, UE3 gives you more POTENTIAL to make things look awesome, but you still have to do the work to make it look awesome, it isn't automatic :)

[legacy-Retodon8]

Thanks Ictus! :)

[legacy-Grimlock]

I have the scans.

[legacy-Rubberhead]

I think those Selket shots are from ingame movies.
Those are high quality CG renders.

PS: Grimlock post more scans please!

[legacy-Grimlock]

Yeah, sure they might be shown within the UE3 engine but it' certainly isn't a UE3 model.

The detail level is way too low.


here are the mag scans:



http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=ut14qj.jpg

http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=ut20hc.jpg

http://img212.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img212&image=ut37ht.jpg

http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=ut41lf.jpg

http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=ut53vd.jpg

http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=ut68rq.jpg

http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=ut74mc.jpg

[legacy-nELsOn]

w00000h00000!!!

i could just start to cry... this looks so d*mn awesome even on these scans. O_O
i'm so looking forward to playing this!
i hope the specs i've read about (2.8ghz, gf 6, 512 mb ram) are true or at least near that :D

[legacy-Ictus]

grimlock, you just don't listen well do you :)

[legacy-Rubberhead]

hope the specs i've read about (2.8ghz, gf 6, 512 mb ram) are true or at least near that grin

Maybe you could play it on Ultra low detail at 20fps, it would be nice but we gotta stay realistic.

[legacy-nELsOn]

@rubberhead:
hmmm these specs were what mark rein and tim sweeney announced as minimum in an interview with a german games mag.
they also said that this is not final because they're still optimizing the engine.
just so that you know where i got that from ;)
anyway, i got more than these specs but as i said somewhere before i'm preparing for some not-that-high graphic settings and a not-that-high resolution ^^

but i guess we can all just wait and see what we'll get in the end...

[legacy-Retodon8]

Thanks for the scans, Grimlock!
I think there are some original Unreal models in there. :P

Also, just in case somebody didn't notice yet, BU made another article on the latest and future incarnation of UT:
http://www.beyondunreal.com/daedalus/singlepost.php?id=7995

Yay, Krall!
Those actually are original Unreal characters, although I'm sure the models will be a lot cooler.
I wonder what they'll look like...
The Krall seemed a bit bland compared to the other species.
I'd love to have a Slith team in the new UT, with amphibious vehicles. :)

[legacy-Grimlock]

"grimlock, you just don't listen well do you"

Well if it is a remodel of the character for UE3 why does is lack the detail seen in other models shots?

[legacy-VickissV3]

it looks like whoever made her didn't really put as much effort into it like they have with say, malcom. she still looks like she is on a higher level of detail than anything on the ue 2 or 2.5 .

[Xabora]

Yay!

BU Said Iron Guard are going to be in the next UT!

^_^

[legacy-Retodon8]

"Well if it is a remodel of the character for UE3 why does is lack the detail seen in other models shots?"

The armour is relatively simple, but look at the roundness of her eyes, the individual grooves in the sword, the detail of the scarab... everything.
Selket is a character that's not exactly dressed for the occation, so she needs more roundness, less bulky armour, but both require a high polycount to actually look this good.
Put a UC2 Selket right next to the UE3 screenie, and trust me, you'll notice it's ugly compared to this rightaway.

[legacy-Grimlock]

But if you compare the facial detail of her model to this shot of Malcom....


The difference is immense.

http://img173.exs.cx/img173/1240/ut3malcolm5rt.jpg

[legacy-Ictus]

her skin is just much smoother so you don't see it as obviously. that is just a fact of normal mapped art- chunky rough stuff looks more detailed since there are more crevices and bumps for the light to catch on.

The thing you need to understand about normal mapped smooth stuff is that it looks incredibly real when you actually see the lights moving around, since all the soft gradients and highlights are dynamically rendered, not baked into the texture like old methods. For example, the highlights on her breasts and arm; it is possible to bake that type of detail into a non-normal mapped mesh, but it will look the same no matter what the lighting on the character is like. If it's normal mapped then it will change and look right for every situation.

also, look at her stomach near the little orb, see the spikey shadows of her ab muscles? those are dynamically being calculated and show up because the light is perpendicular to the general area, and those types of lighting details will move around to different places as the light moves around the character. It's just like in real life- when light is directly in front of something it appears flat; move the light to the side to see the details more pronounced.

[legacy-grimstar]

Epic, get in touch with Soma and Lotus.

Support esports.

[legacy-Grimlock]

Fair enough, but personally from a tech pov I would not have released that screenshot to the public. It isn't half as impressive as your other UE3 caps.

[legacy-DoMiNaToR]

Retodon, Krall SUX! they are technologyless.

''i would like to have slith''

ANOTHER SUX RACE, man, slith are retard amphibious creatures considered animals, they have no technology.

also Krall must suck too, they are completly tribal, no technology, their technology is a bit more advanced than the Nali one (medieval age).

whats with Epic? why you introduced the krall? they are technologyless and not enough inteligent for develop theirselfs more, and alos they are a enslaved race, the Skaarj control them. So you put the Krall in and not the Skaarj? are the kralls introduced in tournament by the Skaarj, and them gave some vehicles to the krall? or whats with them, they doesnt fit.

[legacy-Retodon8]

"Epic, get in touch with Soma and Lotus. Support esports. "

I suppose this message was meant for Epic, so maybe I should ignore it, but...
Am I the only one that doesn't know what this post means?

"Retodon, Krall SUX! they are technologyless."

Are you sure about that?
Considering the fact that they were enslaved by the Skaarj, maybe they simply weren't allowed to use their technology.
I mean, later on the Skaarj only let the Izarians use Force Lances with dampeners installed, so they wouldn't be able to easily overpower them.
Also, the Skaarj are just as much tribal as the Krall are from what I've seen.

Besides, I can see it now, the Krall driving around in their species' Flintstones cars, hitting Necris with their staffs, losing their legs and turning invisible.
(There's a bug in UT2004 Invasion where they turn invisible, although perhaps it's secretly been fixed with one of the latest patches.)
I'm sure the Krall will have a yabba dabba doo time, a dabba doo time, they'll have a gay old time.

Epic introduced the Krall back in the original Unreal, so it makes sense to want a fresh start and flesh them out a bit more.
Like I said, they seem relatively bland to me as well, but I'm curious what Epic is doing with them.
As for the Krall not being intelligent enough to develop...
Well, that's a gradual process you know.
We humans didn't invent computers rightaway either, we were worse than the Krall are back in the day.
In other words, they are able to develop themselves, as long as the Skaarj don't keep them down the entire time, which we don't know anything about yet, since they were just a simple enemy back in Unreal.
The Skaarj letting them loose in the Tournament wouldn't be all that weird.
We humans organise fights with dogs, cocks, whatever (I don't approve with that, but it happens), and we ourselves fight (unfairly) with bulls and basically anything for no reason, so the Skaarj could do something similar.

What's wrong with the Slith?
If they really are just animals, then why did the Skaarj bring them along for the ride to Na Pali?
They are related to the Skaarj, and just like them they aren't indiginous to the planet, so the Skaarj must've had a good reason to bring them along.

[legacy-DoMiNaToR]

Retodon, Kralls havent got technology, like the Izarians, and the ONLY tribal Skaarj are the independent clans, like the Iron Skull, not imperial ones. Also the Skaarj look a bit tribal, but their technology is 10 times or more powerfull than the human is in Unreal Universe, i think the Skaarj did the same with kralls like Torgr with Szalor, they just introduced Szalor for see an entertaining death,
remember?

btw, the Skaarj found the Krall in the stone age and they slaved them and teached em for gain a small development. The Skaarj only slave very very inferious races, they couldnt never slave humans, beause humans are way much more advanced than the species under slave the Skaarj have. well only 1 Skaarj clan has driven the humanity near the destruction in only 1 year, imagine if the Empire been there when this hapened. So i think you can imagine the enormous power the Skaarj has.

[legacy-Thanatos]

Some sites told that the guy standing next to the vehicle, holding the Flak Cannon, is a Necris. Actually, I panicked a bit, because I hoped that the Necris in the next-gen would like similar to Brock in UC 2 or Kragoth/Thannis in the UT2004 Bonus pack. And that guy looks more like a Juggernaut to me... I thought the UC/UT2004 Necris had the coolest character designs in the UT series so far, and I'm a bit afraid that their designs are going to be changed again. But I'm probably scared for nothing.

I like the return of the Krall. I can't wait to see what Epic's going to pull off with those guys.

I'm also glad the Minigun's going to be replaced with the Stinger (again, one step closer to the classic Unreal atmosphere :) ).

[legacy-Retodon8]

DoM, let me put it like this:
Even though we already have (a very limited amount of) information about the Krall, Epic could surprise us, completely redesign them, and create a very cool, new Tournament team to play with.
Then again, they could create something boring, bad-looking, something that's no fun to play with because the other teams will just beat you, but we'll have to wait and see.

They did redesign the Necris slightly, and added quite a bit of background information.
They redesigned the Nakthi quite a bit further, and added a whole lof of background on them.
Again, I don't see potential for the Krall rightaway, but I'll try and refrain from making a judgement until I know more.

As for the guy in red with the FC.
One of the first things I thought was: "Is he Necris?".
The scan makes it hard to see, but I don't think he's very pale.
He does have the black tattoo thing going, but the lines are more curvy than the UT2004/UC2 lines I've seen.
Also the Necris in UT2004/UC2 have the line scheme continuing on their clothing, something I don't see here.
The armour is black and red and has some bonelike qualities, so it could fit the Necris, and he could be a heavy class or something.
I know Necris are relatively light in UC2, but if they just work out more and don on a heavy set of armour they could get heavier.
After all, the way I understand it there will be 8 different teams, so all teams must have a set of vehicles, and maybe light, medium, and heavy characters of their own.

I think the Scorpion looks more like what it used to look like in UT2004.
(It and the Hellbender got redesigned... Halo 2 issues.)
Did anybody keep screenshots of the old one?
Also I read on BeyondUnreal the 9 familiar vehicles are Axon-built (I thought I read different manufacturors in UT2004 somewhere, but whatever), meaning other teams will be sponsored by the other companies?
Axon for Malcolm and co maybe, Izanagi for Jugs, Liandri for Corrupted, Phayder for Necris, maybe non-company NEG for Malcoml instead, or even the TCA?
The Nakthi probably have something of their own, they seem a wide-spread civilization.

OK, enough of this useless thinking out loud already. :)

[legacy-DoMiNaToR]

Krall sucks, thats what i have to say for now.

[legacy-Thanatos]

I believe the Juggernauts are an Axon product.

Hopefully you're right about the light/medium/heavy armor stuff, Retodon8 :).

[legacy-Dante]

Theres 18 vehicles,9 from ut2004+the ece pack,and 9 necris vehicles which havent been seen yet.

[legacy-fts]

""Epic, get in touch with Soma and Lotus. Support esports. "

I suppose this message was meant for Epic, so maybe I should ignore it, but...
Am I the only one that doesn't know what this post means?"

Lotus is the creator of the competitive mutator utcomp for ut2k4 and soma is mapper responsible for Goose2k4.

[legacy-Dante]

I think he wants to see utcomp as a standard mut for envy.Maybe they should hire soma as a mapper like Tomwiththeweather

[legacy-Retodon8]

Soma I know, the other guy I didn't.
I only now realise I should've read the word as "E-sports", I thought it was a typo of esprits or something before. :)
A minimalist's post, but I get the meaning now.
Thanks!

[legacy-Ictus]

" read the word as "E-sports", I thought it was a typo of esprits or something before"


conversely, when I tried to download esprits a while back because somebody told me about it, I searched for 'esports' because I misunderstood them :D

[legacy-Bishop_Gantry]

Yeah i dont get the deal with the Krall either, ok they arent that bad, but that they replace the SKAARJ...

hmph...

[The_Deacon]

Who's to say that the Skaarj won't return in a bonus pack later down the line. Unreal multiplayer didn't have any skaarj. UT didn't have any skaarj until the Skaarj Hybrids in bonus pack 1. UT2003 didn't have any skaarj until the UT2004 "upgrade".

Good things come to he who waits :p

[legacy-Retodon8]

"Unreal multiplayer didn't have any skaarj"

Actually it did, and those characters actually had a bigger bounding box making it impossible to squeeze through some places human players could, making me revert back to a human model.

[The_Deacon]

Yeah, you're right, thinking about the character selection screen I can vaguely remeber them. I don't think it was the standar skaarj type we're accustomed to though, right?

[legacy-Kronon]

If I remember correct, the Skaarj in Unreal could jump higher as well, so you could get up to crates with that skin when a human skin would fail.

When I think about it, this is pretty cool. Maybe there could be some smaller differences between the skins/races, like faster dodge but lower jump-peak for one race, etc. Its should probably be an option, since I have a feeling the competitive community would not like it, but could be fun for pubs.

And I have a feeling Epic will use per-pixel hit determination, so I dont think there will be any hitboxes in Envy, which would make smaller skins harder to hit. I better switch skin to something else than Gorge :)

/Kronon

[The_Deacon]

IIRC there's a 'species mutator' that makes UT2k4 players have certain attributes depending on the player model chosen (actually the race of the model).

[legacy-DoMiNaToR]

the Skaarj you can choose in Unreal 1, is the Skaarj Trooper, not standard, the standard skaarj in the whole Skaarj Empire and the clans has always been the Skaarj Warrior.