Invasion in UT2007 ?

[legacy-supernewbie]

hi :)

will there be invasion in UT2007 ?? :eek:

[legacy-Bamboozler]

Good question. If there is, I hope the monsters show more life than current ones. Those things make me feel like I'm playing Contra.

[legacy-mazza558]

Yeah, ATM, the monsters in invasion feel quickly added on, for example, the Krall tend to move sideways whilst using the walking forward animation :confused: :weird:

[legacy-cyghost]

I voted yes, but I never play it - bring it ALL I say

sad that assault is being dropped - again!

:sour:

[legacy-gades]

For all intents, Conquest is replacing assault.

Also, I can see invasion being ported over by third parties if it isn't an official gametype.
:cool:

[Boksha]

Originally posted by mazza558
Yeah, ATM, the monsters in invasion feel quickly added on, for example, the Krall tend to move sideways whilst using the walking forward animation :confused: :weird: Well, the models are about 6 years old. They weren't supposed to do that. :bulb:

[legacy-windigo]

i want better models in the next game, new monsters would be nice, and not just different colored skaarj

What about a blob? that flings poo at you, we will call it the great mighty poo. He shall sing operah



*salutes conkers*

[legacy-meleemaster]

Why not? Its good fun every now and then. Plus, the more gametypes the better, so everyone will be happy. But agreed, they do need much better looking monsters.

[legacy-INSTAGIBBLER]

Invasion is a useless game type.

[legacy-Bamboozler]

Originally posted by INSTAGIBBLER
Invasion is a useless game type.

Actually, a group of friends of mine have started playing together on a private server. Because of the huge difference in skill, we've taken to playing some Invasion because it doesn't result in the strong players slaughtering the weak all the time. It's worth keeping around I think.

[legacy-Kreskin]

DM, TDM, (v)CTF, ONS, CON.

.

Enough.

[legacy-vrxGz]

Epic's not putting Invasion in UT2007.

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

I don't see why they'd leave anything out, that's just making people unhappy.

[3leggedFreak]

Invasion have nothing to do with UT. The kids kan shoot at scary monsters as much as they want, but put it in a separate game called something else.

[legacy-TheVault]

i like RPG INV

[PointlesS]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
I don't see why they'd leave anything out, that's just making people unhappy.
no one plays invasion except a handful of people

[legacy-Kreskin]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
I don't see why they'd leave anything out, that's just making people unhappy.

It divides the community. This was already discussed before.

[MindRiot]

Originally posted by Kreskin
It divides the community. This was already discussed before.


So what? Why should anybody here give a damn what you think? I sure as hell don't. The community is already divided. It will never be united. And people can discuss it all they want too, no matter how you feel about it.

[Boksha]

Dividing the community or not, Invasion is nothing but a quick addon made to beef up a bonuspack, adding ancient monsters that they happened to have lying about in a horrendously spammy gametype. If you think the U1 monsters in UT2004 looked out of place, think of how those same models would look in UT2007.
They might add it into a bonuspack for existing customers later on, but adding a gametype like that from the start might actually hurt sales and definitly won't look good in reviews. (reviewer says: "Wait, haven't I seen these clunky models used in 4 other games in the past 6 years?")

[SleightOfHand]

Neh. Epic should spend time making the other game types as good as possible, such as VCTF.:up:

[Bjossi]

Imo, Invasion should be kept. And Epic don´t have to use old models, just support Invasion more and make it higher quality.

Btw, Invasion is the only gametype I play atm.

[Jake-SF]

Originally posted by Bjossi
Btw, Invasion is the only gametype I play atm.

I found this gametype to be less frustrating... I dont know why exactly, maybe only because you do not play against other players.

Note that I hate bots, but the monster here are just right, because they aren't insanely powerfull and each one have different attacks, which is nice...

I do have a lot of difficulty against the Warlord whenever there is a very little bit of lag... that is the only frustrating part of it...

EDIT : Just TRIED to play... LOL, forget it that sucks from the server selection - the only server with good ping have that rpg mutator, which totaly ruins the gameplay, most server have it anyway + lot of useless and ******* mutator (whatever those * means)... the server with a good ping and no such thing had 2 players... Im not for these kind of games... Remember it, ut2004's server selection is so bad....

[=XM=]

Honestly, I think they should only include Conquest, ONS, CTF, TDM, DM.

No need to waste zots and lose focus on less played gametypes. Let people make mods for those.

[legacy-vrxGz]

Originally posted by =XM=
Honestly, I think they should only include Conquest, ONS, CTF, TDM, DM.

No need to waste zots and lose focus on less played gametypes. Let people make mods for those.
Agreed. Well, Survival too - as long as it's actually a satisfactory replacement for simply playing 1on1 DM, that is.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Bjossi
Imo, Invasion should be kept. And Epic don´t have to use old models, just support Invasion more and make it higher quality. Epic doesn't have to use old models? You expect them to quickly model a complete new cast of models then? :bulb:

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by =XM=
Honestly, I think they should only include Conquest, ONS, CTF, TDM, DM.

No need to waste zots and lose focus on less played gametypes. Let people make mods for those.

And how would you feel if they got rid of your favorite gametype?

[legacy-tewicc]

more gametypes to split our wonderfull community up into small bits and pices.... :(( pls NOO!!

[legacy-UrFatMom]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
And how would you feel if they got rid of your favorite gametype?

i couldn't care less. used to play assault in UT and in 2003 I just played something else. in ut2004 i played ctf. just try every gametypes they put in and don't whine about why they took a gametype out

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by UrFatMom
i couldn't care less. used to play assault in UT and in 2003 I just played something else. in ut2004 i played ctf. just try every gametypes they put in and don't whine about why they took a gametype out

That's rediculous.

[legacy-PNutButter[FDG]]

Originally posted by INSTAGIBBLER
Invasion is a useless game type.

IMO, Quite the contrary. In the higher invasion levels, you have to constantly shoot and move. Personally, it has helped me a LOT on my hitscan training; Not to mention its a great way to memorize maps.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
That's rediculous. It's not ridiculous OR rediculous. Personally I feel like whining about your favourite XXXXXXX not being in a game is rather selfish and not very smart. When it comes to gametypes, obviously the less gametypes there are the more time can be spent on the other ones. For most other things you can fill in in the Xs above, there's usually other good reasons it's not making a return.

Anyway, I also feel they should just include DM, TDM, CTF, ONS and Conquest. As for the question how I'd feel if they removed my favourite gametype... they did (DDOM's not in the next game) and I'm pretty ticked off about it but it's not hard to see why they're removing it. Only a very small portion of the community plays DDOM and making a whole lot of new quality maps for it would be a waste.

[MindRiot]

Originally posted by Boksha
Only a very small portion of the community plays DDOM and making a whole lot of new quality maps for it would be a waste.

Its not like Epic made a lot of DDOM maps for UT2003/04. I think its silly (if not simply stupid) to argue for or against the inclusion of a particular gametype in the next UT. The more the merrier I say. UT always had more than one gametype, so as long as there is more than one gametype, the community will remain (so-called) divided. Besides, you don't need to create unique invasion maps to play invasion, so the gametype shouldn't be that damn difficult to create, I don't care what Epic's excuse is.

One more thing, they created Assualt and included only half a dozen maps with UT2004 :bulb: I say include DDOM, and let the community make the maps.

[legacy-Twisted_Soul]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
And how would you feel if they got rid of your favorite gametype?

im already pissed that theyre not keeping my favorite gametype. which happens to be br(w/o that horrid tl). but then they didnt bother getting off their asses and supporting anything besides ons in 2k4 so why should they even consider anything from 2k4(besides ons) for 2k7. that could divert their attention from their amazingly crappy vehicle gametypes filled with ppl who can barely even shoot....

[legacy-cyghost]

the community is not so devided as ppl seem to think

we ALL love ut in ALL its forms and for me thats the attraction

(sure some ***** about the other guy's prefered game type but hey hey hey, at LEAST we are not paying cs!

I never play ONS but I am happy that ppl are having fun with it
same with ctf and this NEW Vctf...

any other game out there you get ONE gametype only (okay with some variations here and there)

but with UT we have always gotten sooo much and its great!

so you play BR or CTF and I play DM? we still playing UT and that ROCKS... so bring it ALL back epic

Epic rules kthx (with appologies to Placebo)

[Boksha]

A: "Hey, let's play some UT2k4!"
B: "OK, I'll find a server"
B joins a server, A follows.
A: "What the heck is this?"
B: "UT2004?"
A: "I know that, but where are the weapon lockers? And where are the vehicles?"
B: "Oh, I'm sorry, I always play TDM"
A: "I only play VCTF!"
A gets spawnraped twice, then finds a rocketlauncher, fires a triple rockets at someone who survives the blast (being fully stocked), then headshots A. A then gets spawnraped thrice more.
A: "OK, that's it, I'm outta here"
A joins another server, B follows.
B: "Hmm... I'm not too familiar with vCTF"
A: "That's OK, you'll get used to it"
B drives a scorpion to the enemy flag, but drives through it, then gets mauled by a parked Hellbender. As he spawns in his own base, he sees someone on a manta grabbing his flag, loads the AVRiL, aims, fires, and gets landed on by A who is covering the Manta in a Raptor.
B: "This is no fun, I'm off to play some more TDM"

Now I know this is a little contrived, but in general it's true. As it is now, a large part of the community plays gametypes I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Sure, both A and B like UT2004, but very different parts of it, so they never get to play each other. As a result, instead of a large community, there's loads of splinter communities. Compare with a game like RTCW:ET which has only one gametype, or a game like CoD where all gametypes are pretty much the same (the only difference is the different amounts of waiting you have to do :p)
By no means do I think UT games should have only one way to play, but dozens of different ways doesn't make the game any more fun or make it easier to find opponents.
If there are less gametypes, people that play only one or two gametypes will play a larger part of the game as a whole, and thus a larger part of the community. It even becomes possible to play all gametypes every now and then.

[legacy-cyghost]

so what you are saying is we should restrict the types to force ppl to play the same games??

(I am sure this has been argued to death but I have never had any say in it)

imo I think it is great that we all love the same game yet play different types and are good at diffrent variations of it

in Assault for instance you need no DM skills (except the obvious basics) to be an excellent player - and it sounds from what I have heard about ONS, that that is true for that too... pls read between the lines here, I don't want to explain this more*

the fact that we are playing different game types and excell at diffrent levels doesn't detract (for me at least) that we are all playing UT2004

(I read the "you know your ONS team suck" threat with great interest and laugh at the humor tho I would probably never post there - we are the same UT lovers tho, me and my "UT2k4 is perfect" attitude and all the whiners and the diners and the groaners and moaners and the whatever you consider yourself to be- they wouldn't stick around if it wasn't true

* I played the number one player in Korea in a DM - he kicked my a$$ - tho it was long ago and I would love a rematch now :) and then I played vs him in an Assault game with 8 players each (same night)- I OWNED and I never use that word lightly as I find it insulting to the looser

[=XM=]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
And how would you feel if they got rid of your favorite gametype?
If my gametype was played by only a few people, I wouldn't be a selfish bastard and think that wasting development time on it instead of what people actually play would be a good thing.

Epic, keep this in mind as you go through development.
Quality != Quantity

Whether we are talking about gametypes, number of weapons, vehicles, maps, mutators (or splash damage on spammy stuff :p ).

[legacy-supernewbie]

more gametypes = more fun

If UT2004 only had DM, nobody would have bought it (besides the DM lovers)

but a lot of people bought ut2004 for ONS only for example

if you leave gametypes out you will loose customers :bored:

[legacy-Kreskin]

Originally posted by supernewbie
more gametypes = more fun

If UT2004 only had DM, nobody would have bought it (besides the DM lovers)

but a lot of people bought ut2004 for ONS only for example

if you leave gametypes out you will loose customers :bored:

Wrong. More Gametypes = Less quality to each gametype; Divides the community (and the ammount of servers).

Enough Said. If Invasion is as played as you say, it's community will make a mutator for it.

[legacy-{GOG}R4d4]

Invasion is not going to be in UT2007 as a regular gametype. My guess is its going to be a mut/mod made by the community. I like invasion, and would like to see Epic add it in, but its just not going to happen.

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by Boksha
A: "Hey, let's play some UT2k4!"
B: "OK, I'll find a server"
B joins a server, A follows.
A: "What the heck is this?"
B: "UT2004?"
A: "I know that, but where are the weapon lockers? And where are the vehicles?"
B: "Oh, I'm sorry, I always play TDM"
A: "I only play VCTF!"
A gets spawnraped twice, then finds a rocketlauncher, fires a triple rockets at someone who survives the blast (being fully stocked), then headshots A. A then gets spawnraped thrice more.
A: "OK, that's it, I'm outta here"
A joins another server, B follows.
B: "Hmm... I'm not too familiar with vCTF"
A: "That's OK, you'll get used to it"
B drives a scorpion to the enemy flag, but drives through it, then gets mauled by a parked Hellbender. As he spawns in his own base, he sees someone on a manta grabbing his flag, loads the AVRiL, aims, fires, and gets landed on by A who is covering the Manta in a Raptor.
B: "This is no fun, I'm off to play some more TDM"

Thank you, because that makes my point even more clear. If you do not like a gametype, you can move on to another that fits your play style instead of being forced into a different one. I do not like CTF with the xloc. I do like VCTF. However, if VCTF was not in UT2k4 I would not force myself to play CTF with the xloc. Getting rid of gametypes wont force people to like the others, it'll only make players get bored and quit.

[legacy-breadtruck]

hmm, this quote works in this thread aswell


Originally posted by Breadtruck
People just play what they like, and the nice thing about UT is that it caters to nearly everyone be it from an official or user-made mod. Sadly this forum is full of idiots that cant grasp that concept, and try to force their views of what makes a good game on everyone else.

[legacy-UrFatMom]

breadtruck rules :up:

[legacy-[Dr@9o0n]_D@r+]

Originally posted by windigo
i want better models in the next game, new monsters would be nice, and not just different colored skaarj


There are new monsters. You just have to download the mutator for it. I believe it is called sature monsters or something. It adds 2 really strong monsters, Queens and Titans.


They better keep invasion in UT 2007. It is an awesome online gametype.

[legacy-Kreskin]

Originally posted by [Dr@9o0n]_D@r+
They better keep invasion in UT2007. It is an awesome online gametype.

Well, they are not. End of story.

[legacy-UrFatMom]

Originally posted by [Dr@9o0n]_D@r+
They better keep invasion in UT 2007

or else what? :rolleyes:

[Boksha]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
Thank you, because that makes my point even more clear. If you do not like a gametype, you can move on to another that fits your play style instead of being forced into a different one. I do not like CTF with the xloc. I do like VCTF. However, if VCTF was not in UT2k4 I would not force myself to play CTF with the xloc. Getting rid of gametypes wont force people to like the others, it'll only make players get bored and quit. I don't expect people that magically start liking gametypes. Assuming VCTF would be the gametype that's left out, people that like DM and VCTF but only play VCTF would then go and play DM.
As for getting bored... notice how some of the most played games (Counter Strike and RTCW:ET, to name two) at the moment have a few one gametype.

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by Boksha
I don't expect people that magically start liking gametypes. Assuming VCTF would be the gametype that's left out, people that like DM and VCTF but only play VCTF would then go and play DM.
As for getting bored... notice how some of the most played games (Counter Strike and RTCW:ET, to name two) at the moment have a few one gametype.

That's true, but only for those who like more than one gametype. And even then they'd be pissed that one of their favorite gametypes was taken out. If someone only liked TDM, and TDM was taken out, they wouldn't enjoy the next UT at all.

For the record: I played counterstrike for a day, got bored, and put it down. :)

[legacy-{GOG}R4d4]

Epic is making UT for money. If almost nobody plays a certain gametype they are not going to spend time and resources to make that gametype, just so they can please a few people. Instead, they will leave that gametype out and put more time and resources into making the rest of the game better. By doing that they will draw in more people that they are losing, and therefore, make more money.

[legacy-Kreskin]

Originally posted by {GOG}R4d4
Epic is making UT for money. If almost nobody plays a certain gametype they are not going to spend time and resources to make that gametype, just so they can please a few people. Instead, they will leave that gametype out and put more time and resources into making the rest of the game better. By doing that they will draw in more people that they are losing, and therefore, make more money.

Ok, so you want the game with:

Deathmatch
Team Deathmatch
Capture the Flag and Vehicle Capture the Flag
Onslaught
Assault
Conquest
Last Man Standing
Mutant
Invasion
Survival

11 Gametypes. 11 Gametypes? For God sake... Glad your not on Epic.

When will some people understand that Epic has to drop some gametypes (less played ones) to make the game better?

[legacy-UrFatMom]

Originally posted by Kreskin
Ok, so you want the game with:

Deathmatch
Team Deathmatch
Capture the Flag and Vehicle Capture the Flag
Onslaught
Assault
Conquest
Last Man Standing
Mutant
Invasion
Survival

11 Gametypes. 11 Gametypes? For God sake... Glad your not on Epic.

When will some people understand that Epic has to drop some gametypes (less played ones) to make the game better?

i believe you misred him... he's talking sence about why they should and will leave some gametypes behind

[legacy-Kreskin]

Originally posted by UrFatMom
i believe you misred him... he's talking sence about why they should and will leave some gametypes behind

Kinda... You know what I meant to say :D

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by {GOG}R4d4
Epic is making UT for money. If almost nobody plays a certain gametype they are not going to spend time and resources to make that gametype, just so they can please a few people. Instead, they will leave that gametype out and put more time and resources into making the rest of the game better. By doing that they will draw in more people that they are losing, and therefore, make more money.

So why don't they just make "Counterstrike 2"?

[=XM=]

SWG_Victim, are you trolling or are you serious?
If you are trolling, then well done.

If you are serious, then consider this: no one cares whether removing the less played gametypes will piss off some people.

What the people at Epic care about is making a great game that will sell a lot of copies and be a good show of their engine(to sell more licenses). Now, they have limited resources in terms of time and manpower. They have had time to reflect on what was wrong with UT2004, and as CliffyB said "like, I wish, like there was less variety you know" (or some such sentence with many "like" in it :p ). This is why they are cutting the less played gametypes. Because, even if those people don't buy the game at all, they will make back the loss on new players who will be attracted to a good, focused game.

The community in general also does not care about those less played gametypes. The fact that they are less played means, only a minority will be seriously pissed of by their absence. Many people play more than one gametype and would just play something else. New players won't be affected since they won't know about those obsolete gametypes. Consolidation is good, because it means more full servers and more servers of varying levels.

My main gametype is ONS. If Ut2007 did not have any vehicular strategic mode (ONS or Conquest) I would not buy it (like I did not buy UT2003) since I am not interested in TDM/CTF (and variations like vCTF, ffa DM) anymore. Does this matter to Epic and the community? Yes, because ONS is one of the most popular gametypes and a lot of players could be lost. Would it matter if it was invasion or BR? No, because a few people only play those modes.

In short, that some people would be pissed off it not a valid argument, whether from a developper or consumer point of view.

I don't want Epic's "artists" to be making monster models and skins, I want them to be making visible character models and skins, to the benefit of the main gametypes and of the majority of players.

P.S: You bought UT2004 before you started playing vCTF because vCTF did not come by default with the game. So for Epic it's done, they have your money. In terms of the community (and indirectly Epic, for ongoing sales), if vCTF had not been there, either you would have played something else (good for the other gametypes) or you would have quit UT2004 (no effect on the other gametypes). Either way it's a win-win for everyone.

[legacy-{GOG}R4d4]

I'm not saying Epic should make Counterstrike 2. One of the things that makes UT what it is is all of the different gametypes. However, if there is a gametype that not many people play, it would make more sense for Epic to drop that gametype in their next version, and instead of working on that gametype they can put more effort into the other ones. Dropping one gametype does not mean they are going to drop all but one, so would all of you stop using that as an excuse to keep a certain gametype in the next version of UT.

For those of you who keep saying, " What if Epic dropped your favorite gametype", shush. You are missing the big picture. The point is not to please one person, its to please an entire community. Yes, its impossible to please everyone, but its better to try that than to try to only please one person. It may be your favorite gametype, but if the majority of the people don't like/play it, then there is no point in wasting time and resources to add it into the next installment of UT.

Edit: Curse you XM, posting what I wanted to say, only better, and while I was typing. Good job tho.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by SWG_Victim
For the record: I played counterstrike for a day, got bored, and put it down. :) I doubt that's because there's only one gametype though.

[MindRiot]

Originally posted by Kreskin
When will some people understand that Epic has to drop some gametypes (less played ones) to make the game better?


Why do you talk out your ass? We all know you don't work nor are you ever going to work for a game company, so you don't know sh!t about developing a game.

The game should be better regardless of the number of gametypes, especially seeing that some of the gametypes are derivitives of other ones.

Epic doesn't need to make tons of maps, they should concentrate on the game, engine, and the editor. VCTF simply combines code from other gametypes. Last Man Standing and Mutant are simply altered forms of DM. Invasion is A.I. for monsters that aren't near as complex as bots, played in maps from other gametypes. DDOM, and BR, really shouldn't be that complicated to add either. Add the support for them, just as support was added for VCTF. I for one was irritated by the missing gametypes from UT2003, I had played in UT; like LMS.

What this sounds like to me is another plan by Epic to have people pay twice the money they should be asking for the game by dividing the gamestypes up over two installments of UT, just as they did with UT2003/4.

[legacy-UnrealBomb8912]

I voted yes... I don't really know why.... because I am really sick of teammates telefragging eachother and calling themselves "The Masters" When they don't know how to use the other weapons... and by the way, don't be sad that their taking Assualt out, because 70% of Assault players play Trails, and I have heard that the actual gametype Trials will be added to the mix... I'm not exactly sure, thought I have only heard it from a friend...

[Discord]

OK, somebody please help me understand this because I think I lost it somewhere along the line:

Why again are we so interested in reducing the number of gametypes?

Here's how I'm reading that so far:

1. UT's online numbers have been kind of disappointing.

2. The fact that the numbers are disappointing is exacerbated by the wide variety of gametypes -- in other words, the few players we have are spread out among a jillion different gametypes, thereby making each individual gametype appear almost totally empty.

3. Since just looking at one gametype by itself in the server browser makes it look like almost nobody plays the game online, people who see this are disinclined to buy the game... thereby further reducing overall online numbers.

4. If, on the other hand, we could somehow dump all the UT players into just 4 gametypes instead of 10 or more, each individual gametype would look more active.

5. Seeing this makes the game appear active overall to prospective buyers, thereby increasing online numbers and sales.

6. As sort of a side rationale, some people are opining that Epic's /DE's /whoever else's personnel resources are being spread too thin by having to develop all these different gamemodes.



Is that it, or am I still not getting it? Just checking...

[legacy-CREMBELS]

I certainly hope so:) :up:

i LOVE invasion, adn i erither want epic to put it in themselves (recommended) or it gets modded back in.

anbd with some newer models/monters. but on the whole i dont care about the models.


and make it playable in conquest maps:D

[legacy-Mastame]

IMO Invasion is (one of) the best gametype(s).
I really want it in, but it's likely it won't be.

I understand that though, the number of gametypes will be reduced and sacrifices have to be made for that.. ;)

[legacy-Zynith]

What i personaly would like to see is a form of INV, but instead with dozens of monster spamming a few but very agile and smart hunters that are difficult and take a whole team to take down.

But people! If the game is really as modable as Epic claims it to be, why worry? Let Epic focus on the most important gametypes and let a dedicated modsquads take care of addons :up:

BTW, if the next UT is gonna be a mix for the new and old style then more people will be attracted, and more people = more people to play certain gametypes.

[BuffyTheSlayer]

like EE's monsters ..:rolleyes:
http://img207.echo.cx/img207/4126/dmzeitkindnbsutlfmay29a62mi.th.jpg (http://img207.echo.cx/my.php?image=dmzeitkindnbsutlfmay29a62mi.jpg)http://img190.echo.cx/img190/6933/ctfrail156ei.th.jpg (http://img190.echo.cx/my.php?image=ctfrail156ei.jpg)

[legacy-SWG_Victim]

Originally posted by Cafe
wooooooooooooooooooooooo, first why is this a poll? second, knowing what I know about people who play invasion is that they aren't good. So I really don't care what happens to you, and I hope you lose your RPG mod in some type of worldwide computer glitch, where every copy is deleted. 1000% of people who play AS play AS-scorpianraces (the 1000% comes from the 1 to 9 ratio between people who actual 'play' AS, to the others who just play it to ruin your fun.) BTW ASSAULT IS BAD.

http://filebox.vt.edu/a/anon15/pics/ban_him.jpg

[legacy-CREMBELS]

Originally posted by Cafe
wooooooooooooooooooooooo, first why is this a poll? second, knowing what I know about people who play invasion is that they aren't good. So I really don't care what happens to you, and I hope you lose your RPG mod in some type of worldwide computer glitch, where every copy is deleted. 1000% of people who play AS play AS-scorpianraces (the 1000% comes from the 1 to 9 ratio between people who actual 'play' AS, to the others who just play it to ruin your fun.) BTW ASSAULT IS BAD.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/crembals/Atari%20screens/assclownaward2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/crembals/Atari%20screens/Endyourself.gif
and finally:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/crembals/Atari%20screens/Dontfeedthetroll.gif

[legacy-[Dr@9o0n]_D@r+]

Originally posted by Cafe
wooooooooooooooooooooooo, first why is this a poll? second, knowing what I know about people who play invasion is that they aren't good. So I really don't care what happens to you, and I hope you lose your RPG mod in some type of worldwide computer glitch, where every copy is deleted. 1000% of people who play AS play AS-scorpianraces (the 1000% comes from the 1 to 9 ratio between people who actual 'play' AS, to the others who just play it to ruin your fun.) BTW ASSAULT IS BAD.

http://polegarzinha.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/off%20with%20his%20head.jpg

Off with his head!

[Doc Shock]

*opens his book of heathen thread necromancy magic and begins murmuring mysterious phrases in an ancient language*: Live, thread. LIIIVE!
Ok, now that my thread resurrection was successful, I'd like to explain why I did it. You might ask yourself: Wasn't there more than enough discussion about more gametypes splitting the community, no one plays this and that anyway etc.?
Yes, indeed, there was lots of bashing and b*tching going on here, but my point is another one, unlike those which were dicussed before, so I'd like to share it as well. Now, that the UT2004 forums were ported over to Epic, the chance they read this thread has increased, another point why I touch this topic again.

So, let's start with the topic itself. Invasion in UT2k7. It is already confirmed that it won't be included, and I can understand why. That means I basically support Epic's decision to leave it out.

But in this discussion, everyone around here made one mistake: They only talked about online play. No one did consider that more than half of the people who bought UT2k4 never played it online.
The game is also very popular at LAN parties, and I don't mean these big events with prize money tournaments and stuff like that, I'm talking about a couple of good friends getting together to frag each other. And when attending a private LAN party, a big part of the fun is variation. Some ONS here, some CTF there, some Instagib-DM, some Invasion... Some more Invasion... Installing the brilliant Co-op-mod Fraghouse Invasion and playing it all day... Got the point?

Invasion is one of the most popular gametypes over at LANs, and it is so because it's co-op. Halo 1 proved that co-op play is on its way back, its popularity is constantly growing. It's almost the only reason why anyone bought Serious Sam. Epic knows about that, why do you think Gears of War will have it?
Usually, co-op doesn't work too well when playing online with people you don't know, but I think there is a deep wish in a lot of people to play the games they like with their friend instead of against them.
Of course, versus play is very entertaining as well, but gets boring when doing it all of the time. Also, in co-op, people with very different skill levels can still play a game together without the weaker ones getting constantly owned, which prevents frustration. A lot of my friends refuse to play shooters at LANs just because they don't find a lot of fun in getting killed every 5 seconds, and I totally understand that. That being said, Invasion is the only UT gametype which provides a decent co-op experience, and therefore quite a big loss for most LAN gamers.

I still understand Epic's decision, they don't have access to the gaming behaviour of the people who don't play online (who will very likely have completey different preferences than the online community), so they have to rely upon online statistics. So, I won't ask them to put it back in, though I will surely miss it.

What I ask them to do, though, is to include native monster AI for the modders, or adding it later with a bonus pack. The modding community will most likely try to revive Invasion, but they can't be successful if there is no basic stuff to use. No modder will be able to write AI, because that needs C++ access. And bot AI is way too CPU-intensive for co-op mods. So everyone in this thread who said something like "the modders will surely bring it back" are on pretty thin ice. The problem is, if , for example, someone misses the skeletonize-deaths when someone falls into lava or is killed by the Link Gun (as I do, imo it's the most fitting death effect for plasma weapons, just burn the flesh of their bones), it is most likely possible to write a mutator that replaces the ragdoll with a skeleton when getting killed by certain damage types, but modding in a new AI is a completely different cup of tea.
So many mods used the native monster AI in incredibly creative ways (like summoning spells in RPG-mods, or a vehicle that drops gasbag-spawning bombs to distract the enemies), so why take that potential away? One more example: A few days ago, Killing Floor 2.0 was released, a big co-op mod for UT2k4 where a team of players fights waves of Zombies. Funny as hell.

There are co-op mods out there for almost every popular FPS game, created by simply taking the enemies from the single player mode and putting them into multiplayer (like this "Starship Trooper Fort defense with Antlions" for HL2, for example). The problem is, UT has no real singleplayer with the typical singleplayer opponents, so if the old monster AI is left out, UT2k7 won't be the base for any future co-op mods and the teams will simply pick a different engine. And hey, this is Unreal Engine 3, most likely the most licensed gaming engine for next-gen games. Wouldn't it give a poor account on it if modders (the part of the community that is greatly responsible for keeping games alive) had to pick another one, just because such a small thing is left out? Discussion like this are about to happen: "Hey, that new UE3 looks amazing, let's build our planned co-op mod with that one, ok?" "Doesn't work, mate, they ripped away the carpet under our feet by leaving out singleplayer AI and I don't want to wait for the PC version of GoW, let's just pick Source instead."

So, I'm all for including at least the basics, especially because it doesn't take much effort. Slamming the old AI stuff in shouldn't be difficult at all, though I'd prefer if they'd improve the old moster AI and made a reworked Invasion gametype for the first bonus pack.

Until the game is released, all of their time should of course be spent polishing what's popular, but after that, they can focus on what's actually fun and put that in the bonus pack.
Their community support was always one of the best, they really showed that they care about their customers. So, if they create a bonus pack (and I guess they most likely will), why not focus it around entertaining new stuff that is aimed mostly at the LAN and Instant Action players, a large group of the UT community which gets overlooked so often?
It doesn't mean that there shouldn't be anything for online players, like new player models and vehicles, but one or two new gametypes can't hurt, can they? The major part of the online community, known to be somewhat conservative (no offense intended), will most likely ignore them and stick to what they know and like, but those open to new/different experiences will most likely find yet one more reason to stick with the game.


Phew, now that was quite a long statement, but I hope I could make my point clear: Please Epic, leave out as much gametypes as you see fit, but leave some stuff in for the modders to work with. Just like you did with UT2k4, which had vCTF-support, but no maps for it.

Greetings,
Doc Shock

[DrDoomed]

The more the merrier i say. If its simple to code and doesnt need additional maps why not? Plus alot of ppl dont even go online and the more stock gametpyes to be enjoyed in instant action could only be a good thing.

[Emmet Otter]

It should be added later in a bonus pack.

[Bagrada]

I swear I once saw a Skaarj warlod moon me. he did some kind of perverted skaarj dance.

but at that time, I handt slept in days , so it may have been my mind.

[Cody Lavery]

Doc Shock.. No One could have worded that as well you did. i totally concur, i myself am a offline gamer with the occasional LAN Party, and i can tell you that i play invasion cause im a real gamer!! no joke! im serious if you can play invasion with super beserk on and if by some crazy stretch of luck you actually last out all the waves... you my friends are a real gamer! nothings funner than dodging hordes of rockets blasting from every direction, playing with some bots to assist you in being human shields and catching weapon fire in the face (i really love that one). and not to mention the occasional squel you might let out when those little wormy things pounce on you (gets everytime). Oh yeah you might decorate the floor with your own dead body, but then you can spectate the next unsuspecting victim of certain doom and scream at them to "LOOK BEHIND YOU!!!" or "Oh my God all you got left is bloody stumped torso!! HA HA HA!!"

i have more fond memories from invasion than any other gametype, not to say that they are less fun, but you hit that one head ... co op is a great thing in a game, and invasion has the best degree of it. I love it when you all huddle together in one room where you think you might be able to survive the wave of warlords coming after you all, only to run screaming when you see half of your group splattered across the room in an avalanche of gore and gibs Based on a true Story (I LOVE GIBALICIOUS!!)

but i see other peoples concerns as they dont want epic to lose sight of the core gametypes that are most visibly popular. and i agree with that, i think it will be best if we modders unite together to create an army of creatures monsters and digital versions of some unwanted family members only to then introduce them to our projectiles in a massive display of digital violence comparable to BraveHeart.

Cause what all FPS Gamers really like is something to shoot! sometimes its more enjoyable to shoot lots of things that are really dumb. and just think about it... last i heard UT2007 would support 64 players, each bieng around 5k to 6k polys, if we could create simple models of at most 3k (which we have learned how to do allready) we could have .... drum roll please.... 128 monsters. im not sure if this would be possible, but im intending to find out, and.. AAAAHHHH THAT would be Awesome AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
........i need to change my underwear just think about it.

so if there is anyone out there who thinks they are too sissy to fight massive hordes of fodder, and wants to admit they suck at unreal....

post a reply negating my opinion.... oooHAHAHA!!

[Crash]

Invasion is the only game type i enjoyed alot in ut2k4(im a ut99 player)
if they will have invasion in ut2k7 that would be sick with the pumped up graphics and all the effects

[AFG34]

stupid mode IMO because just play single player its the same thing, but dnt really care if it was included

[{SM}LeadSniper]

invasion is a true test of basic core skills, every person should play it. granted the monster models are abit "dated" but thats what coders are for right? *ducks and covers from a nali wielding a rapid fire ssr*

[Gregori]

They should merge Assault with Invasion and give the new gametype its own maps. ATM moment you have a bunch of very stupid monster running around DM maps not designed for this gametype.

It would be alot more interesting if you had to complete sometype of objective against the hordes, and if the AI was really good so that they worked as a team to stop you completing your mission.

That way you could setting like the one in AS Robot Factory, but instead of fighting against a team of few equal human opponents, you could fight against a horde of hundereds of unique robots that have differnt weapons to the humans and whose AI and tactics are different. At the end of each map you'd have to fight a super powerful boss.

Same scenario could be applied to a map like AS Mothership, only this time you'd have to fight an army Skaarj like the ones from Unreal 1 and destroy their Queen at the end of the map!

[KZXten]

Phew, what a thread.

Well I for one love INVasion and have my own server up. We have a great community and have for some time. It definately beats getting pooned by some snot nosed kid who found some hack that auto targets everything they look at. WOW how fustrating is that, even if you are a good shot you are like what the heck was that!!!

I find that most of you are thinking small in thinking that this game type and that game type split the community, heck the community isn't made of a few people it's made of thousands! Well better to have a community than none at all I say! I plan on supporting INVasion for as long as I can and there is interest, and as far as I see the modding community is still there. The co-op with this game type is great and with the modding community making RPG more robust it adds to this community.

Not that I'm banging on the other modes of play because everyone likes something different, heck I like a change of pace now and then from INVasion. But I think Epic should put in INVasion as a gametype and not neglect that part of the community.

[Raynor]

INV was some time fun, but I bored quite soon. I'm not gonna miss this gametype in UT2k7.

[iLL]

No I'm glad INV is gone.
Monsters in UT lol.Leave that for SP.
I prefer to battle humans that have a mind of their own.Its more challenging that way imho.

Everyone has their own tastes,but INV tastes like crap to me.

[dinwitty]

I think they're putting the Krall in UT2k7, hopefully a totally reworked model...

[Hedge-o-Matic]

As far as the question of dropping gametypes goes, I'd have to say that Epic did a very bold move with UT99, including six very different gametypes, most of them entirely new, such as Domination, Assault, and Last Man Standing. this was a gmable at the time, and the early reviews of UT mention the huge variety as both a surprise and a possible risk of not dominating any one area. Remember, UT was going up against Q3, and had a lot of proving to do.

Obviously,their gamble paid off. The multiple gametypes became the UT trademark, and now the other games scrambled to catch up. Instead of ruling one game, UT created a bunch, and had no competition at all.

With their later UT games, especially 2k4, Epic carried the "best of many worlds" thinking as far as they could. The idea was to appeal to as huge a swath of gamers as they could. But what happened was what the early resposes to Ut warned might happen with the original: the games spread the energy of the title into a diffuse, low-density cloud of online players, who began to see more empty servers than players in their favorite gametype.

Thankfully, this happened mostly with 2k4, when UT was established. If UT had had a similar effect, we wouldn't be here in a 2k7 forum, that's for sure.

So the technique that worked so well in UT isn't panning out anymore, and is arguably doing more harm than good. To repeat this strategy in 2k7 would be foolish, regardless of what various segments of the community might want. Unless the community is rallied, they will continue to go their seperate ways, until they aren't really any sort of community at all, spread not only among different gametypes, but all the gametypes of all the UT titles.

Then Epic would have to take a hard look at not just eliminating a gametype, but the entire franchise, because there's no way they can allow any title to damage their company's standing in the industry.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

In regards to Invasion itself, I think that Epic should concentrate elsewhere. Invasion, for all its coolness (though, personally, I don't think it's that cool) just isn't the lifeblood of UT, and Epic needs to concentrate on the few modes tht people consistantly love to play, with one or two new modes.

That being said, I think Invasion would have really rocked hard in 2k7, with the new lighting especially. Imagine seeing nothing but the shadows of Skaarj warriors as they rips through your teammate down some side hall would be awesome. How about the silhouettes of Warlords, or the sight of Gassbag shadows sliding over the walls as their own fireballs cast new, moving shadows? Sweet!

All of this, of course, would rely on totally new monster content for each monster type. Re-using the Unreal meshes would look absolutely terrible. I think a co-ordinated effort by the community could start to create new Invasion content right now. The models alone would keep a team busy for a year, easily, considering the level of detail they could have.

[Xyx]

The strength of the Invasion gametype is that it is fundamentally different from the other gametypes. All other gametypes (be it stealing a flag, delivering a bomb or just fragging hardest) are player versus player. Invasion is players versus monsters, and thus creates a sense of belonging to a team.

I find UT2004 Invasion extremely unpolished. The concept is awesome, yet it never captured me. It should have shipped with support for the "bases" gametypes (CTF, BR, ONS). Monsters should spawn on one side only and not teleport around the map. That would get some "hold the fort" action going.

I say they should put it back in. It would complement the gametype list more than 1-on-1. It would not require maps, just a bit of code and a lot of monsters.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

The strength of the Invasion gametype is that it is fundamentally different from the other gametypes. All other gametypes (be it stealing a flag, delivering a bomb or just fragging hardest) are player versus player. Invasion is players versus monsters, and thus creates a sense of belonging to a team.

I find UT2004 Invasion extremely unpolished. The concept is awesome, yet it never captured me. It should have shipped with support for the "bases" gametypes (CTF, BR, ONS). Monsters should spawn on one side only and not teleport around the map. That would get some "hold the fort" action going.

I say they should put it back in. It would complement the gametype list more than 1-on-1. It would not require maps, just a bit of code and a lot of monsters.

I agree with all of this, actually. Considering I just heard of "Survival" mode yesterday, and learned it was just 1v1 DM today, I'm underwhelmed. I agree, Invasion would be a better addition than this. Still, Invasion would require a lot of effort to make happen, given the models needed.

[MrScruffy]

*clears throat*

When I first bought the game, Invasion was all I played. There was a server called Happy Penguin, and all it ran was Invasion. Invasion, heads and shoulders above the rest, is THE best gametype as an introduction to the unreal universe.

Firstly, the gametype is staggered. It starts easy and gets harder. Newbs can feel an actual sense of achievement as they play the game for the first 4/5 waves, fragging small insect things. It's a great game just to learn how to aim somewhat.

Secondly, Invasion creates an actual team. On a good server, people in trouble, cornered or whatever, can ask for help; and people respond. Some me another gametype on a public server where this happens. This also creates to the community. Back in good' ol 2004 when I was on the forums as Harsh_but_Fair, I found my way here from another player on Invasion. Invasion also stops all the OMG YOU NOOB!!111 business. If you get killed, it's by a monster and the feeling always is "It happens to the best of us".

Thirdly: it's weakness is also one of it's greatest strenghts. The fact you have to sit there for the rest of the wave when you are fragged gives newbs the chance to watch the game, explore the levels (through specing), and watch senior players work. It builds respect for the skilled gamer.


I haven't played INV for a while, simply because it only becomes somewhat of a challenge for me now on the last 2 waves. I see INV almost as a kindergarten; if everyone played INV to start with, I think we'ld have a better unreal universe.

How invasion is at the moment; the amount of effort that went into it, really is pathetic. The models are crude, and there are no maps made specifically for it- it's little more than a mod. I doubt that 3 experienced moders/modelers couldn't make a better looking in about a week. However, it's a brilliant gametype. Hope it makes it back.

[Doc Shock]

Still, Invasion would require a lot of effort to make happen, given the models needed. Hmm, not if they use existing GoW-Models and call the Gametype "Locust Invasion". :D
But seriously, modders will probably make some great looking monsters, so if Epic would include the ugly ones it would be not be a big problem. And maybe Epic could create detailed monsters after release, for the first bonus pack. The real problem is that a modder can't create a remake of Invasion if there is no native monster code for him to use. But I guess I'm repeating myself here...

[Wail of Suicide]

*clears throat*

When I first bought the game, Invasion was all I played. There was a server called Happy Penguin, and all it ran was Invasion. Invasion, heads and shoulders above the rest, is THE best gametype as an introduction to the unreal universe.

Firstly, the gametype is staggered. It starts easy and gets harder. Newbs can feel an actual sense of achievement as they play the game for the first 4/5 waves, fragging small insect things. It's a great game just to learn how to aim somewhat.

Secondly, Invasion creates an actual team. On a good server, people in trouble, cornered or whatever, can ask for help; and people respond. Some me another gametype on a public server where this happens. This also creates to the community. Back in good' ol 2004 when I was on the forums as Harsh_but_Fair, I found my way here from another player on Invasion. Invasion also stops all the OMG YOU NOOB!!111 business. If you get killed, it's by a monster and the feeling always is "It happens to the best of us".

Thirdly: it's weakness is also one of it's greatest strenghts. The fact you have to sit there for the rest of the wave when you are fragged gives newbs the chance to watch the game, explore the levels (through specing), and watch senior players work. It builds respect for the skilled gamer.


I haven't played INV for a while, simply because it only becomes somewhat of a challenge for me now on the last 2 waves. I see INV almost as a kindergarten; if everyone played INV to start with, I think we'ld have a better unreal universe.

How invasion is at the moment; the amount of effort that went into it, really is pathetic. The models are crude, and there are no maps made specifically for it- it's little more than a mod. I doubt that 3 experienced moders/modelers couldn't make a better looking in about a week. However, it's a brilliant gametype. Hope it makes it back.



Agreed with you here on pretty much everything. Invasion is great fun for new players. I don't consider myself skilled at all, but the skill gap between myself and many of my friends is such that it's not fun to play against them. However, we can play Invasion together and it's great fun. The cooperation allows people to contribute without being self-conscious about their playing ability.

The gametype is fun, but you're right in that it's very simplistic. I was a big fan of Monster Hunt in UT99, and Invasion was a bit of a disappointment compared to that. Still, there are some fun "Hold the Fort" style Invasion mods and Assault-invasion which is fairly similar to Monster Hunt. I'm hoping the framework for something like Invasion or Monster Hunt or OSMT will still exist in UT2K7.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I always thought that a gametype more like "Gauntlet" for UT99 wouldbe cool. Monsters come out of gates in endless tides, until the players can destroy the games, at which time the match ends in victory. Any other outcome is defeat. I seem to remember that there was a boss that arrived after a certain amount of time, too, putting pressure on the players to get moving quickly.

Great stuff!

Yeah, the teamwork in Invasion warrents inclusion in 2k7. Mod team, assemble!

[MonsOlympus]

lolz, Id love to see something like this come about from modders hey. Invasions scale and gameplay definatly warrents some fixing to make it better, I liked fraghouse that was pretty well done but Id like to see more assualt rather than arcade zombie deal. Like objectives for a sp game mixed with multiplayer and so monsters instead of spawning could drive into the battlefield in apc's or something. Just alittle more coop sp feel to it could do really well I think, story wouldnt need to be majorly important if a map has a simple story like assualt.

[Lee_Shagwell]

I hate to put a downer on someone elses enjoyment but i never could really see the point of invasion. It's just not UT baby.

[Doc Shock]

Well, it's certainly more Unreal, but why shouldn't it be UT?
Monster code was in from the beginning, i.e. UT99.
Ok, what Epic delivered with Invasion didn't live up to the possibilities what could've been done with the monster AI, but it was fun, unique and fast, or in other words: UT.
If UT2k7 ships without a monster AI framework I'd be very disappointed, simply because I love Co-op gaming, it's already too rare nowadays. What I'd love to see would be if Epic would include the GoW enemy AI behaviour.

[Xyx]

TDM should be removed and flags should become a map feature. Then you'd have TDM with flags, 10 points for each capture. Then there'd be some room in the gametype list for Invasion, which fills a niche. :D

[Boksha]

If UT2k7 ships without a monster AI framework I'd be very disappointed, simply because I love Co-op gaming, it's already too rare nowadays. What I'd love to see would be if Epic would include the GoW enemy AI behaviour. There's a bot AI framework, which could probably easily be modified to suit monsters (or the monsters could be designed to suit the bot framework)

The real question is whether anyone would be willing to make proper looking monster models for it. Having the cubistic Unreal monsters walking around in an enviroment of pretty much limitless detail and high realism is going to look pretty odd, I'd wager.

[Xyx]

an enviroment of pretty much limitless detail and high realism
What, UT2013?

[E-LurK]

Xyx they will never take out TDM, cuz if they do, ill ****ing kill people.............................dot dot dot dot dot....EVERY 1!!!! tdm shows your real killing skill, besides 1v1..

[Xyx]

Good to see that irony is not lost on you.

[Loo]

I'd be really sad to see invasion go, Im not that a great UT player and quite frankly I detest most game types where I get fragged, frag them back and get called a noob, and basically have no fun. So yes I play Invasion, infact the RPG Invasion. :p

The communities are actually real on invasion servers, you are always on the same side you actually get to know people through talking rather than just trying to kill them, there is a real sense of achievement to actually get through all 32 waves with all the giant titans and queens hurling boulders at you and teleporting into places where you're trying to camp out the worst of the wave. Its not even boring when you die, you can watch other players five times your level just absolutely maul everything in their path, or become wandering eyes for your team mates telling them just how many warlords are sitting beneath them, and everyone's favourite cry "Behind You!!" shortly followed by "lol unlucky ^_^"

So yes I'll be sad to see it go, but truthfully I wont see it go Ill keep playing UT2004 until a half decent mod can provide for me, hopefully most of the 50 or so regulars on my server stay on with me and we'll continue having a blast ;) because truthfully, we don't care about having next gen graphics and 5k poly monsters or whatever we're still happy with all the original ones. We love the community and we still enjoy it fully 3 years or so after its release, not many games have that so why should we move onto something that doesn't cater for us?

[!ut2k7!]

no it wont

[Silvester[AUT]]

I agree with Loo. she plays same server like me :D

Look what happened to Q4. They forget to put bots in, and what happened. Its almost forgotten. Maybe it has a story, I dunno my old rig didnot run it fast enuf. Hey I hav a new rig, I'll try it.

In Unreal you crash land on an unknown planet, and are left behind, coz everybody thought u were dead. Then u wake up and kill monsters all the way to the Queen. Now correct me plz, but that was the original story of unreal in 1997. The only thing missing back then was the RPG thingies. Oh and you had scuba gear, torch, nali treeseeds (for healing), etc. So this is one (if not the) roots of Unreal and Unreal Tournament.

For the monsterpackage discussions: I played servers where Aliens (Sigourney Weaver) were attacking. On others it were Zombies (I think Dumb3, oh its Doom3 :D). Somebody must have put them in lol.

I vote for Invasion to stay. Or bring it back later, for I am rather an adventure player, that likes first and third person view.

[Xyx]

All the franchise's gametypes fall into the following niches:
Free for all (DM*, Mutant, LMS)
Team versus team (CTF, TDM*, DDOM, cDOM, ONS, BR, AS)
Players versus AI (INV)Based on this, I'd say niche 2 should be culled first.

* 1-on-1 being either DM or TDM.

[Loo]

All the franchise's gametypes fall into the following niches:
Free for all (DM*, Mutant, LMS)
Team versus team (CTF, TDM*, DDOM, cDOM, ONS, BR, AS)
Players versus AI (INV)Based on this, I'd say niche 2 should be culled first.

* 1-on-1 being either DM or TDM.

Exactly, Invasion is the only game type where all the players are actually on the same side unless you play with bots, but most people don't want to do that online.

[ShredPrince]

Where is the poll??

I love a good game of invasion form time to time, I'd love to see it make it to UT2007.

[Lert]

I started my foray into online playing with INV. It builds basic skills, teaches weapon use, promotes team play, things like that. I can honestly say that if there had been no INV in UT2004, I wouldn't be playing online today, and I wouldn't be as huge of an UT2004 fan as I am. Is that to say that INV is what makes UT2004 great ? No, that's to say that INV helped me see the rest that is great about UT2004 .. I don't play INV anymore nowadays, and I don't miss it.

Having said that, I can understand why they aren't including it in UT2007, and I won't miss it there, either.

However .. I have read Doc Shock's passionate rant (after a very scary thread revival) and I agree wholeheartedly with him, and I therefor hereby plead to Epic ..

.. Even if you don't build monster models and include INV as a gametype .. Atleast code a basic monster AI for modders to use. Give modders the tools and the basics they need to build their co-op gametypes without needing to have a doctorate in AI programming.

[Silvester[AUT]]

Or give me Unreal 3, where mankind frees the Krall from Skaarj enslavement. If they want or not. Everybody has to be free! That'd be a good storyline. But not make it without rpg stuff, OK.

[Xyx]

Or even just use regular bots as teh ennemie. Detailed monsters take tons of time and money to produce, but the bots are already there. There's something to be said about defending the fort together from waves of low-skill bots.

[Lert]

There will be bots. Ofcourse there will be bots. It's called "offline play" or "instant action"

But Bot AI is considerably more intricate and hard on the CPU and RAM than monster AI is. So you can't have 64 monsters with full bot AI running around, that would simply kill your FPS on ANY system.

That's why we want Monster AI alongside Bot AI.

[Guru7892]

acually invasion could use an overhaul, thus making it very very intresting.

mini bosses, regular bosses that must be killed with uber-weapons, mega bosses with random weakpoints.

then a super mega boss at the end that is like the other mega bosses combined that summons mini bosses periodicaly and summons the regular bosses againat certain health intervals.

oh and they should have a clone part where the enemy makes clones of all the players and sends them in.

im starting to run out of ideas now but it could be very intresting.

[Boksha]

Lert: it wouldn't be hard to simply disable most of the bot AI for custom monster AI.

[musilowski]

Invasion is fun occasionally, but only with the right people if playing online. :)

Although I'd say leave it out for the community to make the gametype as they like. :)

[Lert]

Lert: it wouldn't be hard to simply disable most of the bot AI for custom monster AI.

This is true. But - I am neither a coder nor a modder, so I don't exactly know - is this something that we-the-community can easily do, or something that needs to be done by Epic ?