Unreal Engine 3 coming out soon let tell what we would like in the program!!! [Archive]

legacy-Aaron M

02-24-2005, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by ydeardorff
I would like to see a built in converter, for basically everything. no special programs needed for creating screen shot previews, static mesh creation, texture creation, you name it.

Currently this program is too dependant on other expensive programs like 3ds and maya, to do basic stuff. say like creating custom static meshes ect.

The reason UED doesn't include any of those things you asked for is because that would be called "re-inventing the wheel" - why should Epic spend all their time adding in full 3d modeling and texturing support when there are already tools out there dedicated to the job (and better at it than anything Epic could come up with - do you honestly think they could create a better replacement for Photoshop for instance !!??). Now, on the other hand if they were to provide some sort of seamless connection ability with external programs, then that would be a different story.

The problem is that most of the things people request to be added into UED have nothing to do with a level editing program - they're just engine enhancements, and that's a bit of a different story.

legacy-ydeardorff

02-24-2005, 10:52 AM

Very true,

The biggest thing I would like I think is more stability in the editor.
Definite fix should be the crash prone editor.

Now I know that much of the editors crashing is due to the computer its running on! For instance I used to have an old worn out AMD athlon 1gig processor, with old bad HDD's, and 512 meg of ram, and that bugger would crash all day long!
Since I have build my new P4 system, I think the editor might have crahsed once in the last month even with UT2K4 running, and the editor running twice all at the same time.
The biggest problem I find though is trying to find all the converters to convert to and from all the various file types that the game needs. I think it should be more compatible with more common file types, like say the .3ds file types from 3dsmax, and other programs without having to do all the conversions just to get it to work in the editor. just have the coding built to accept those more common file types.

legacy-maurice2

02-24-2005, 11:29 AM

- Make *all* dialog boxes resizeable (especially the movie dialog)
- Feature to allow setting a surface to a plain colour - i.e. without having to create and import a silly 4x4 texture that is simply 16 red pixels (would be very useful for small decorations)
- Catch *all* protection faults etc and create an emergency save file before crashing
- Right-click option "snap this/these vertex/vertices to the grid"
- Add an 'Align this object (left/centre/right/etc) to that object'
- Fix bug which trashes all the lighting when you make a small modification to geometry
- Fix the bug which crashes when you use the colour-picker with more than 1 light selected
- Fix the bug which crashes when you create a movie action and forget to "Use" an interpolation point
- Fix the bug which produces various random effects (like deleting everything) when you use "group" to gather items together
- Allow flexible re-ordering of brushes rather than just 'first' and 'last'
- Add a 'I know about this' flag to build errors so that they don't show up again (I know that navpoint is too far off the floor, it's a jump target and I know what I'm doing)
- Add an 'integrity check' tool which validates the entire data structure of a map and fixes errors (missing meshes etc)
- Shortcut keys for snap-to-grid, enlarge screen and all the other frequently-used things
- Option to perform DXT1/DXT5 compression automatically
- Accept non-square textures
- Option to perform ray-traced, pixel-perfect lighting. I'm prepared to pay the price of a huge lightmap in exchange for the quality - video cards will soon have 1GB of memory anyway
- Provide a large library of emitters for all common physical phenomena, with accompanying sounds (anything to do with water, fire, electricity, etc). For example, high-pressure steam, boiling-liquid steam, misty steam, a selection of cloud-like steams, and so on
- Provide a nicely classified library of realistic, tileable, textures with high-quality shaders. EG: 2 or 3 dozen each of - glass, rock, stone, concrete, brick, wood, plastic, metal, ...
- Provide the option to completely customise how spawn-points appear - which static mesh to use (if any), weapon/pickup mesh, orientation, scale and rotation
- Make changes to the pivot point permanent and effective for all types of object
- Publish an *official* list of *all* the physical constants. eg: A player is 82 UU high. He bobs 4 UU when walking. His eyes are at 76 UU. His grenade is fired from 51 UU above the floor. One walking step forward is 52 UU. and so on

aach, I'll stop there or it'll sound like a doleance list :rolleyes:

Hsoolien

02-24-2005, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by maurice2
- Make *all* dialog boxes resizeable (especially the movie dialog)
- Feature to allow setting a surface to a plain colour - i.e. without having to create and import a silly 4x4 texture that is simply 16 red pixels (would be very useful for small decorations)
- Accept non-square textures
- Option to perform ray-traced, pixel-perfect lighting. I'm prepared to pay the price of a huge lightmap in exchange for the quality - video cards will soon have 1GB of memory anyway

The first is already avaialble, you just ake a constant color material

The second... do you mean non power of 8 textures, cause you can already do rectangular textures (mind you I odn't think DXT supports rectengular textures), also if we were to use no power of 8 textures, it would severely impact perfomrance, DXT does not like them at all

As for the last, Realtime per pixel lighting, is that enough for you?, cause that's what th next gen will have :D

Radiosity

02-24-2005, 12:46 PM

A few specific replies to maurice2:

Right-click option "snap this/these vertex/vertices to the grid"

There already is one.

Fix bug which trashes all the lighting when you make a small modification to geometry

Pointless really. All lighting, as I said earlier, is realtime, same as Doom3. Meaning you place a light, tweak it, then test. Simple as that. No rebuilding required.

Accept non-square textures

You mean like 512x256 and 1024x256 and so on? Which you can already do. There aren't any other shapes you can use, it's either square or rectangular, end of story.

Option to perform ray-traced, pixel-perfect lighting. I'm prepared to pay the price of a huge lightmap in exchange for the quality - video cards will soon have 1GB of memory anyway

Lightmaps aren't used a great deal any more. What would be the point of a crappy low-quality 1024x1024 lightmap when you can simply place a realtime light? Incidentally, lightmaps mean no realtime shadows as well, and we already know that Uengine 3 features full lighting and shadow in realtime.

Provide a large library of emitters for all common physical phenomena, with accompanying sounds (anything to do with water, fire, electricity, etc). For example, high-pressure steam, boiling-liquid steam, misty steam, a selection of cloud-like steams, and so on

All this would achieve is making map makers even more lazy than they already are. And of course, if that happens then we're not only going to have hundreds of maps using the same meshes and textures from the game, they'll also have identical special effects too. So much for individuality. Making your own emitters for these things is highly rewarding and should be a top priority on any noob map makers list of things to learn.

Provide a nicely classified library of realistic, tileable, textures with high-quality shaders. EG: 2 or 3 dozen each of - glass, rock, stone, concrete, brick, wood, plastic, metal, ...

It's already been made known that there will be an asset browser with various search features in the next Ued, so searching for things will be a lot easier, even if they still have horrible package structures like they do now. Your 'library' already exists, it's called every package that ships with the game.

Publish an *official* list of *all* the physical constants. eg: A player is 82 UU high. He bobs 4 UU when walking. His eyes are at 76 UU. His grenade is fired from 51 UU above the floor. One walking step forward is 52 UU. and so on

Ok, this would be nice, but really you can't expect epic to pay someone to sit there and crunch their way through that much information for absolutely no gain whatsoever. All that info is freely available in the scripts, you just have to make time to search for it.

And just in case you haven't actually read it:

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml

Most of the 'issues' raised here are covered by that document :)

legacy-Zynith

02-24-2005, 01:26 PM

Build in audioplayer :P

legacy-ImaCarrot

02-24-2005, 07:22 PM

Fixing the nice bug that combines all of your packages that share the same name but different extension would be sweet.

For all the people complaining about losing your work when the editor crashes, if the crash has that little dialogue box telling you what went wrong, you can still save. I've done this tons of times without a problem. Of course saving it out as a different name just in case wouldn't hurt.

Carrot

legacy-Minimum

02-24-2005, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Veline
Hey people, remember that this is a level editor. Not a big f*cking entire game creation application. 3D programs focus at doing 3D models and animating, which is good, and image programs focus at doing textures, which is good. Personally I would rather have a program that does one thing perfectly instead of one that does 100 things crappily and buggy.
UED is not just a level editor. Even right now you can do many more things with it. UED is a very efficent editor which lets you make the same map like mine that would take 1 year with a crappy 3d modeling program (So far everyone I've seen were crappy) and make it only take about 3 months.

legacy-maurice2

02-25-2005, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by DarkSaber
A few specific replies to maurice2:
...
And just in case you haven't actually read it:
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml
Most of the 'issues' raised here are covered by that document :)
I have, and aside from the lighting issues it doesn't answer any of the points that I raised, any more than your remarks.

legacy-sandorski

02-25-2005, 04:49 AM

A Move/Scale/Rotate Tool similar to Maya or 3DSMax. Especially Rotate! Too many times I've needed to Rotate something and it was needed in such a way that multiple Trial and Error attempts needed to be taken as the object rotated in ways totally unexpected.

legacy-Aaron M

02-25-2005, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Minimum
(So far everyone I've seen were crappy)

Care to tell us which ones you've "seen" ?

legacy-vollgaser

02-25-2005, 09:42 AM

- a simple "fit to size" option to scale texes automatically to the selected surface(s). its in hammer but not in Ued. scaling a texture manually is simple a pain in the ass.

- if you have installed custom maps or add-on packs it would be great to have a simple user friendly way to get a list of required texture and static mesh packs. because if you wanna share the map in the community you have to name the required packs or make sure you dont have such in youre maps.

- easy applyable physics like a value for weight, liftable, friction...

- presets with easy changeable parameters for standard applications like "glass" where one can enter then parameters like number of pieces, range for particles.... So no scripting or complicated setups for other often required applications is necessary: explodable (wood, metal, stone,...), fixed guns,

- costomizeable walking sounds: enter a new name in the tex-surface and add a .wav sound to it. the given preset sounds are not enough. i wanna add echo and special stuff.

legacy-Ein Stein

02-25-2005, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Minimum
a crappy 3d modeling program (So far everyone I've seen were crappy)

Crappy how? Did you understand what you were doing?

legacy-Veline

02-26-2005, 02:37 AM

I have to follow Ein Stein on his question...As an experienced modeller I can only say that you cannot decide wether a modelling program is crappy or not unless you've tried multiple ones over an extended amount of time...True, UED *IS* a bit like a 3D program itself, but it's still a level editor no matter how powerful it may be. I mean, what can it really do except kick-ass looking levels?

3D programs, on the other hand, does not have the same kind of limitations. By cheating and improvising you can achive almost anything in any 3D program, be it Maya or Max or Lightwave. Of course, a 3D application requires WAY more dedication than UED ever will.

So in conclusion, both UED and 3D programs have their pro's and con's and similarities, but they should NEVER be assumed as the same thing.

Angel_Mapper

02-26-2005, 03:09 AM

From what I've seen there will be no bsp in Unreal Engine 3, not even the initial subtraction. Add a playerstart and something for you to stand on and you've got a level.

Originally posted by vollgaser
- costomizeable walking sounds: enter a new name in the tex-surface and add a .wav sound to it. the given preset sounds are not enough. i wanna add echo and special stuff. Ya lazy bum. Materials already come with 32 slots for you to add custom material types, you just have to add the footstep sound to the xPawn.

legacy-maurice2

02-26-2005, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
From what I've seen there will be no bsp in Unreal Engine 3, not even the initial subtraction. Add a playerstart and something for you to stand on and you've got a level.

Very interesting. Is there anything publically available to look at?

legacy-Ein Stein

02-26-2005, 07:42 AM

Is that to say the levels will be entirely modeled in external programs (ala Painkiller)? Except terrain I guess.

Angel_Mapper

02-26-2005, 02:59 PM

No, nothing public.

legacy-ImaCarrot

02-26-2005, 07:02 PM

Must be nice to be able to play around with it already eh Angel? I can only envy you right now, though I do hope to be working at Secret Level soon.

Carrot

legacy-ZeekPunk

02-26-2005, 11:43 PM

the search for actor function setup more like an outliner of your map like in other 3d programs.

legacy-ZAR-4

02-27-2005, 12:01 AM

Not sure if this was said....

The ability to turn any solid brush into a physical object like in the hl2 source editor.

legacy-S-Dot

02-27-2005, 05:37 AM

I would like to have a 'create ownage map' button or better a button that creates a game like Half life 2. That would be cool and saves a lot of time and money and everyone could do this without trouble.

Also it would be nice to write letters with unreal ed.

and finally I like to have a function that cleans up all my messy drivers and removes all unnecessary tools and software so my windows runs without crashing.

legacy-Ein Stein

02-27-2005, 07:37 AM

Ued 3.0 doesn't make me sandwiches. Epic plz fix kthx.

legacy-stujitsu

02-28-2005, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Angel_mapper
From what I've seen there will be no bsp in Unreal Engine 3, not even the initial subtraction. Add a playerstart and something for you to stand on and you've got a level.

How is it that you have seen it in action?

legacy-ImaCarrot

02-28-2005, 01:26 AM

Angel Mapper works at Secret Level and they license the engine.

legacy-Ein Stein

02-28-2005, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by ImaCarrot
Angel Mapper works at Secret Level and they license the engine.

Wrong (x2)

legacy-ydeardorff

02-28-2005, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Ein Stein
Ued 3.0 doesn't make me sandwiches. Epic plz fix kthx. :D

Well look this thread actually went and got popular!

Aside from all the "issues" we deal with the editor YES I think epic did a great job on the current editor. And like was said before, the only limitations this editor gives you, is your imagination, and knowledge of the program.

One thing I would really like to have incorporated, even if someone were to make a mod for this, is a backward compatibility program for the editor. Something that would allow grabbing from previous versions, and having them auto converted into the latest version of UT2KX. There are alot of earlier version maps out there that were alot of fun, and it would be great if something could convert all the original UT items into new versions. That I think would open up alot of options for UT.
And be alot of fun!

legacy-ydeardorff

02-28-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
No, nothing public.

Well, If you want a job working as a video game, level designer, buy 3dsmax, maya, lightwave, photoshop, and UE version 2 or higher. Learn them all like the back of your hand, and make 3 or four awesome maps, with extreme detail. and send them out to the video game companies telling them your looking for a job as a designer, artist for video games. And you may very well land your self a job! I have already opened a dialog with one video game company, and they have challenged me to design a level based on one of their games.
So the work is in progress right now! I am even working on ways to cheat the editor to create effects it cannot through standard means. Its a slow trial by error process, and a pain in the butt, but if I want a job in this industry like I do, its a means to an end.

InfiniteWeird

02-28-2005, 12:21 PM

No more AA bug, plzfix kthnx bye! :D

legacy-ImaCarrot

02-28-2005, 03:23 PM

Ok, my mistake, she used to work there. Didn't realize she didn't anymore. Secret Level does use the unreal engine though, why else would their logo be at the bottom of the udn home page? Besides, my friends that do still work there tell me that they are using it.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Main/WebHome

What exactly is your reasoning behind your accusation anyway Ein Stein? You should at least back up what you say, when you say it.

Carrot

Angel_Mapper

02-28-2005, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Ein Stein
Wrong (x2) Well, wrong (x1/2 x1/2). I USED to work for Secret Level, and they port the engine to the consoles.

legacy-Sir Nevets

03-02-2005, 10:49 AM

I would like a particle editor in the editor:D
Where you can see and test the partice in real time:D

or has that already been done?:confused: :rolleyes: :eek:

if so...than I was a sleep:o

legacy-Krystal6877

03-02-2005, 04:13 PM

I would like the ability to set up one or more plains of gravity. Say if you were to jump your sprite would flip around and land their feet on the ceiling.

I have been able to achieve this somewhat in the editor by setting up volumes that work like that but once up there you can't move very well.

bartje321

03-02-2005, 04:14 PM

you can do that with warpzones

legacy-ydeardorff

03-02-2005, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Krystal6877
I would like the ability to set up one or more plains of gravity. Say if you were to jump your sprite would flip around and land their feet on the ceiling.

I have been able to achieve this somewhat in the editor by setting up volumes that work like that but once up there you can't move very well.

I know this is off subject, butt,...How difficult is it to make seamless switching to various areas of a map, using warp zones?
Just PM me on it?!
Thanks

legacy-Krystal6877

03-02-2005, 04:33 PM

Yeah i would like to know how to do that as well.

legacy-Lee3dee

03-03-2005, 12:32 AM

I know this year at GDC (Game Developers Conference) Epic is having a few lectures on their new engine. Im going to the modeling for U3 engine and game design. I'm sure it will be tons of people at the lectures. LOL

ps. I hope they have another sneak demo for the MOD community again :D

Angel_Mapper

03-03-2005, 12:35 AM

Not at $100 a pop + transportation + etc there won't. :p

legacy-Ein Stein

03-03-2005, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Lee3dee
I know this year at GDC (Game Developers Conference) Epic is having a few lectures on their new engine. Im going to the modeling for U3 engine and game design. I'm sure it will be tons of people at the lectures. LOL

ps. I hope they have another sneak demo for the MOD community again :D

*waves from the IGDA board*

I'll be going to those ones too. There's also Epic's appointment-only demonstration, but I think it's developers/publishers/etc only. Maybe?

legacy-Zynith

03-03-2005, 01:39 PM

Angel i have a few questions. I hope you can awnser some :rolleyes:

If there isn't BSP, how would you add primitives like cubes and such?
Is the new editor stepping away from the "filled up universe" perspective?
Is it true that ALL the lighting will be done realtime? So no lightmaps at all?

bartje321

03-03-2005, 01:57 PM

and what about skyboxes?

Radiosity

03-03-2005, 06:32 PM

Is it true that ALL the lighting will be done realtime? So no lightmaps at all?

Doom 3 already uses fully realtime lighting, no lightmaps at all. Do you honestly think a game engine that isn't slated for release until next year is going to sully itself with crappy low quality lightmaps when it could use fully realtime for everything? ;)

legacy-II-NIGHTHAWK-II

03-03-2005, 08:00 PM

what id like to see, is instead of gravity on X,Y, and Z axis, is a center point of gravity which pulls u from all directions to it, or kep the existing gravity functions

legacy-stujitsu

03-03-2005, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by II-NIGHTHAWK-II
what id like to see, is instead of gravity on X,Y, and Z axis, is a center point of gravity which pulls u from all directions to it, or kep the existing gravity functions

That would be every cool. To be able to make a map where u can run the entire circumference of the asteroid or whatever u want to make, without any warp zones.

legacy-II-NIGHTHAWK-II

03-03-2005, 09:59 PM

that was actually my original idea, some sort of moon that is completely round and able to meet with players from an opposite end without anything weird set-up

legacy-Minimum

03-04-2005, 02:03 AM

Multiple skyboxes would be nice.

Angel_Mapper

03-04-2005, 04:10 AM

http://angelmapper.com/tutorials/multipleskies.htm :p

legacy-ellsal

03-04-2005, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by II-NIGHTHAWK-II
what id like to see, is instead of gravity on X,Y, and Z axis, is a center point of gravity which pulls u from all directions to it, or kep the existing gravity functions

and maybe so you can reverse it so you can make ringworlds, so instead of gravity pulling you to the center it repels you away.

Hsoolien

03-04-2005, 10:25 AM

I have to ask with all the people that religiously desire gravity and surface of orientation control how many other engines actually supprt that? (if I remember right the Serious Sam engine did...)

legacy-ydeardorff

03-04-2005, 11:04 AM

These are good inputs, and thanks!,
Remember though, UDN has been made aware of this thread and they are checking it regularly! So I know some of the posts we may not agree on, but lets keep the posting constructive, and not lay down the thunder so to speak on others. Some of us are n00bies, others are getting paid for this work, and everything in between. Either way we are all here because we love creating levels, mods, and mutators. This forum can directly effect any changes in work, or even patches that UE3 may need.

Godd job on everyone though,
Keep the posts coming!

legacy-II-NIGHTHAWK-II

03-04-2005, 03:19 PM

UDN has been made aware of this thread and they are checking it regularly

Put in that center point gravity! Id really really want to be able to do that

legacy-Minimum

03-04-2005, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
http://angelmapper.com/tutorials/multipleskies.htm :p
Something where you can have two different areas with different skyzones.

Angel_Mapper

03-04-2005, 11:31 PM

Um... that's what that does. Unless you're not explaining it right? Have you played my map CTF-PhaseShift?

legacy-stujitsu

03-08-2005, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Hsoolien
I have to ask with all the people that religiously desire gravity and surface of orientation control how many other engines actually supprt that? (if I remember right the Serious Sam engine did...)

As far as i know the Serious Sam engine is the only one, and they did cool stuff with that feature. I would not say our desire is "religious" but you know that feature would be cool to work with, dare I say, unreal.

legacy-maurice2

03-09-2005, 03:03 AM

- The ability to program movers with interpolation points like cameras so that you can control how long each move takes, pause times etc.

- The ability to have a mover go through its keyframes and then jump to keyfame 0 without stepping back through the others

Angel_Mapper

03-09-2005, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by maurice2
- The ability to have a mover go through its keyframes and then jump to keyfame 0 without stepping back through the others That'd take a few minutes to code for this engine ya lazy bum. :p

legacy-Bi0Mutati0n

03-09-2005, 11:19 AM

First off Epic, if you put it in the editor it has to work! None of the searching the forums for ages thing all to find out "oh it's a feature that does not work or is unfinished."

Aside from making warp zones actually work well (instant hit weapons, not making rockets turn sideways, etc.) you should add a gravity volume that gives the ability to rotate it and alter the direction of gravity by doing so. This way people could make ring worlds and other strange effects much easier.

Leave BSP in! I have little knowledge of modeling and I would like to be able to keep making great maps without having to know how to model.

Hsoolien

03-09-2005, 11:58 AM

Due to the way that hitscan weapons and warp zones work, it would take a stupid amount of code to make them work together, more then is really worth the effort for what is a gimmick at best...

Mind you, YOU could always code it to work...

Angel_Mapper

03-09-2005, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Bi0Mutati0n
First off Epic, if you put it in the editor it has to work! None of the searching the forums for ages thing all to find out "oh it's a feature that does not work or is unfinished."They're building the new editor from the ground up. I don't think this will be a problem.

legacy-Sett

03-09-2005, 02:56 PM

When selecting mulipul objects of different types (brush ,sm, nav point, ..etc) I would be nice if you could scale them as one. like max does.

eg. brush at x=0, nav.point at 100 and sm at 200

you scale then all up by 2x

=brush at 0, nav point at 200 and sm at 400

gedit?

legacy-Prefablab

03-09-2005, 03:03 PM

The ability to let the level designer actually translocate into the level to look closer and find design problems....like a time machine, remember Star trek....:rolleyes:

legacy-chipV2

03-09-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by maurice2
- The ability to program movers with interpolation points like cameras so that you can control how long each move takes, pause times etc. already in the engine -- use Matinee and AFFECT_Actor instead of AFFECT_Camera. check out the intro fly-in of CTF-NeonArena2K4 (http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=2047)

legacy-ydeardorff

03-09-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Hsoolien
Due to the way that hitscan weapons and warp zones work, it would take a stupid amount of code to make them work together, more then is really worth the effort for what is a gimmick at best...

Mind you, YOU could always code it to work...

Couldnt this just be added in as an actor like the sky box actor? Gravity is default until the actor is placed in the level, and all objects, re-orient to it? Including karma objects, players, pickups, ect. Or a simple right click option on a surface, or smesh?

legacy-maurice2

03-09-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
That'd take a few minutes to code for this engine ya lazy bum. :p
*shakes head indignantly, but grins*
I'm not a lazy bum. I enjoy making maps and I'd like to have the tools supplied to let me do that. Given sufficient time, I could write my own graphics engine in assembler, but it's not what I want to do and I stopped re-inventing the wheel decades ago.

Modern tools are there precisely to let me work at a higher level abstraction, are they not? ;)

legacy-Prefablab

03-09-2005, 04:03 PM

How about, one push of a button and now you have a complete gametype without needing a programmer! :haha:

legacy-sandorski

03-09-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Prefablab
The ability to let the level designer actually translocate into the level to look closer and find design problems....like a time machine, remember Star trek....:rolleyes:

Good idea. Working on Terrain in the current Editor is quite the pain. Everything looks fine in UEd, but in game the lack of Smoothing becomes oh so apparent. Even after testplaying and going back into UEd to fix an issue I find it quite difficult to actually see if I've fixed it.

legacy-ydeardorff

03-09-2005, 04:47 PM

or how about have the editor replace your cam view to where you left off in the game. say you see a bad spot, and wanna fix it. But your level is really complex. All you would have to do is face the misaligned object, then exit the game play mode. Then the editor would be waiting for you in the same position facing the same object.

Angel_Mapper

03-09-2005, 06:53 PM

It works the other way around, similar to Far Cry's editor.

Originally posted by maurice2
I'm not a lazy bum. I enjoy making maps and I'd like to have the tools supplied to let me do that.They did, it's called UnrealScript. ;) They're not going to code stuff they don't need, but they give you the tools to do it yourself.

legacy-stujitsu

03-09-2005, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
They're building the new editor from the ground up. I don't think this will be a problem.

The 2k3/2k4 engine was built from the ground up. Have we forgotten all the PR hype from the release in 2003?

Angel_Mapper

03-09-2005, 07:50 PM

I'm talking about the editor, not the engine.

legacy-stujitsu

03-09-2005, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
It works the other way around, similar to Far Cry's editor.
They did, it's called UnrealScript. ;) They're not going to code stuff they don't need, but they give you the tools to do it yourself.

I'd say they did put stuff in the editor they didn't really "need" but it's in there anyway.

It's easy to ***** about the editors short-comings, yes it does have them, but I still think they did a good job on the 2k3/2k4 engine. The more I learn about it the more impressed I am with it. Granted people always want more, me included, but I still say the current editor is kickass, and I'm really glad they let us in the unreal community work with it.

legacy-ydeardorff

03-10-2005, 09:54 AM

I think it was, is a way to get more people into the community of game level and 3D artistry. I mean if you send out the tools for them to learn with people may eventually become great artists, and future assest to epic!

legacy-connecties

03-10-2005, 10:23 AM

Make the editor available for the Mac.

That will help me a lot.
I only have macs. If I want to create a map I have to go somewhere else.

legacy-Morphias

03-10-2005, 10:26 AM

Programable bots :D

I would like to be able to change parameters of the bots, like we could in UT99, as the custom bot config in UT2004 sucks, and doesn't seem to work.

I would also like to see custom sound packs and stuff back!
Also, I would love for them to randomize the custom bots, as when you play with custom config, it places bots from the top of the list down until all players are full, random would be better.

The old UT99 bot config, still like and it works.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~nijelm/utcust.jpg

legacy-Bi0Mutati0n

03-10-2005, 11:06 AM

Has anyone used the Sandbox editor that comes with the Cry Engine?

That editor is increadibly easy to use when building levels for FarCry... because all you have to do is press a quick key and pow, you are playing the game from where you started in the 3d view. It makes testing triggers and other AI scripts easy.

It would be nice to have that kind of feature with UnrealEd!;)

legacy-Aaron M

03-10-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by stujitsu
The 2k3/2k4 engine was built from the ground up.

I don't think that's true at all, I'm pretty sure they used lots of the original codebase from UT99 with the 2k3/2k4 engine.

legacy-Wolv34ine

03-10-2005, 02:02 PM

Make no mistake, as far as I am concerned the Epic guys lead the way on providing the community with what they need. No other comes close, not by a mile.

I have tried lots of editors and the support docs that go with them and the Epic guys truly rule.

As far as new funtionality in the editor goes. Perhaps a BSP resizing tool, much like the Hammer one would be good, rather than having to go into vertex editng mode.

legacy-stujitsu

03-10-2005, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Aaron M
I don't think that's true at all, I'm pretty sure they used lots of the original codebase from UT99 with the 2k3/2k4 engine.

Not according to all the PR hype from Epic before it's release in 2003. Over and over they said the engine was built from the ground up.

Cenobite

03-11-2005, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by ydeardorff
or here's one,.... how about a built in searching tool, say I want to look up walls, or lights,... well then do a search, and it could pull up every wall mesh, or light mesh in the current static meshes folder! and wammo they would ALL be there to pick from. Instead of hours spent looking through every stupid package trying to see if theres a better light, and then you give up and have to remember where the one you thought was ok was. !!! lol
I must use up three pages of notebook paper a day on little notes on where to find this or that.

Heh, I agree...but like you said, after hours of searching...it gets in your brain and you remember where everything is.

But yeah...static mesh browser search is nice.

legacy-MisterC

03-11-2005, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Ein Stein
I hear that's being done. :up:

That was supposed to have been taken care of with UT2004 according to a little Angel.

How about....

1) White Viewport Bug

2) Optimizing the convert to mesh so it produces better optimized results

3) More builder brush types like the Tarquin builders for example.

4) A more streamlined UI

5) Whatever makes it great

legacy-Sett

03-12-2005, 03:39 PM

fix the ****ty gamepl-

oh right Ued

Staticmesh Batching:

-A way to list what sm are being batched and how much mem. they are using.

-A flag on sm - to batch or not. bBatch?

I guess this could be applied to meshes too, now that they will be batched, right?.

-Sett

legacy-NiTrOcALyPsE

03-12-2005, 03:58 PM

I'd actually kinda like it if the white veiwports bug wasn't fixed.

Without it, I don't think it would be the Ued we've all come to know and love.

legacy-Tidu

03-12-2005, 04:17 PM

Yeah, this forum would be empty without that viewport bug ;)

legacy-Z3n

03-12-2005, 08:33 PM

1./ Some form of backface culling in the top, side and front views might be handy (although not entirely necessary), just because the new UEd seems to support viewing fully lit meshes and emitters within those views, and when you're trying to place something that is hidden deep within your level it is a bit more complicated to move it around when you can't really see it through a hoarde of other meshes/objects/things. I'm not sure how it would quite work, perhaps being able to place a plane of some sort that occludes all other parts of the map or something (I know, I know, you could just move the place (if its a room for example) up and edit it and move it back down but if you've got a terrain map then it might help).... Anyway just a thought :)

2./ If their still using deco layers on terrain (which it looks like they are), then allow physics based or atleast animated decorations that can sway in the wind... being able to do this with trees as well might be fun.. but then again, it may be able to be scripted in or something so... yeah. (Before anyone points this out to me, yes, you can use tex panners, but then if you use random yaw to reduce the "tiling (best way to explain it I guess)" effect the meshes all sway in different directions, and even if you weren't to use random yaw then the grass meshes all have to be parallel or the grass still sways in an un-linear fashion)

And I have to say, I'm looking forward to playing with the thing that looks like KAT in the new editor, seems like fun (after seeing the new unreal engine videos with the breakable skeleton on the wall). :D

Angel_Mapper

03-14-2005, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by MisterC
1) White Viewport BugSupposed to, but wasn't. This latest patch is also supposed to fix the hellbender engine objective, but it doesn't. :p

Anyway, the way the viewports work in the new engine there won't be any white viewports.

legacy-maurice2

03-14-2005, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by Sett
fix the ****ty gamepl-

oh right Ued

Staticmesh Batching:

-A way to list what sm are being batched and how much mem. they are using.

-A flag on sm - to batch or not. bBatch?

I guess this could be applied to meshes too, now that they will be batched, right?.

-Sett
I have found very little information on batched/unbatched: apparently batched is for SMs and is faster, unbatched is for karma/ragdolls and is slower.

I have a map with no karma or ragdolls and poor performance. The engine is spending a lot of time rendering unbatched SMs.

Could someone explain the difference between the two and what (if anything) can be done to improve performance in a case like this?

Thanks

legacy-Zynith

03-14-2005, 11:49 AM

bDoom1Mode=True :P

legacy-Sett

03-14-2005, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by maurice2
I have found very little information on batched/unbatched: apparently batched is for SMs and is faster, unbatched is for karma/ragdolls and is slower.

I have a map with no karma or ragdolls and poor performance. The engine is spending a lot of time rendering unbatched SMs.

Could someone explain the difference between the two and what (if anything) can be done to improve performance in a case like this?

Thanks

The batching occurs when you have more than one instance of the same SM in your map.

So you have 1000 of crate_B in your map but the vid card only has to remember one ver. of crate_B. Thus saving memory. If you have differnt types of SM each of them will have to go into men. Allot of unbatched SM will cause a slowdown.

Meshes are not batched.

Hsoolien

03-14-2005, 06:43 PM

Meshes and Karma objects are not batched cause they are dynamicaly altered by the CPU, rendering any batched reference void (except rigid animated meshes are apparently batched (used for vehicles and weapons with no moving parts (wheels don't count for some reason...))

legacy-Sett

03-14-2005, 08:24 PM

I don't see why a Karma object's SM could not be batched. By definition it can't animate or deform.

Hsoolien

03-14-2005, 09:38 PM

i don't know... :(

Mr_Rose

03-15-2005, 11:54 AM

What I would like to see, and which I think would make mapbuilding more intuitive for those of us coming to UEd from the perspective of a player, is a "playermode" for the camera controls; That is, at the press of a button, the camera reverts to playerheight/FOV and can be controlled via mouse/WASD, possibly including jumping and player collision, just to see if what you've got works.

I know that sort of sounds like building the level and playing it, but that requires playerstarts/addtional time/note taking and more...

Additionally, I apologise if this has ben suggested already, in which case, consider this my vote :noob:

legacy-FlyingPorcupine

03-16-2005, 06:06 PM

a more versatile search system would help noobs and vets alike. make it so you can perform a search on various things, static mesh, textures, sounds, etc. instead of scrolling through menus for hours. maybe also a better help system built into the editor. also real time alerts may be beneficial. say you have a pickup or spawn imbedded in collision. a little ! would appear over it in the editor, and when you click it, it details the alert. "embedded in collision," something short and to the point.
and finally, something i think would be really cool for terrain editing. for the random terrain generation, have more variables. have a way to tell the editor that you want a valley, mountainous, rolling hill, canyon, etc terrain, and the editor would then randomly generate a terrain based upon these parameters. maybe also have an option that would force the terrain to be restricted by BSP, so if you add a brush to your terrain, the terrain would automatically form around the bsp. then edit it to your liking.

legacy-II-NIGHTHAWK-II

03-19-2005, 03:25 PM

ok, id like to say, u consider us lazy bums cause we dont script simple stuff? ell sry cause half the ppl like me dont know the first step u programming... So u call us lazy bums, i dont know how to do it so i cant know can i?

Angel_Mapper

03-19-2005, 04:24 PM

Yes, you're a lazy bum for expecting Epic to do it for you instead of trying to learn it yourself. If you don't know how, there are tons of resources to help get you started and a lot of people in the programming section to answer questions. :p

legacy-II-NIGHTHAWK-II

03-19-2005, 04:45 PM

1) i dont want epic to code anything for me
2) i dont feel like taking th time to learn something that i use VERY rarely
3)when i need something done, its usually simple (thus asking someone for a simple code or looking it up)

Angel_Mapper

03-19-2005, 04:58 PM

Wait a sec, I wasn't even talking to you, dipstooge.

legacy-ydeardorff

03-21-2005, 04:44 PM

I would love to learn it. I used to write my own games back when we were all using apple2E's and the tandy 5000. But Its looks complicated, and its been along time since I spoke, readand wrote programming. I wonder if its really necessary to learn. I find myself overshooting the editor regularly on my mapping ideas. Ihave yet to make an AS map cause if a CTF map can kick my butt all that extra stuff in a AS or ONS would knock me straight into burn-out.

Angel_Mapper

03-21-2005, 05:30 PM

I'm actually more interested in the specs of the new engine, poly counts, size of the levels, how the seamless level loading works etc.

legacy-Ein Stein

03-22-2005, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
size of the levels

Have you seen the in-game footage from Gears of War where the camera flies through and above the harbourside city? It's.... massive.

Perhaps someone has a link? I saw it off a disc.

Angel_Mapper

03-22-2005, 01:11 AM

Yes, but that was using the seamless level loading. I'm interested in the size of the individual pieces and how they're fit together, what optimizations need to happen etc.

legacy-Ein Stein

03-22-2005, 02:57 AM

Ohhh, gotcha.

legacy-BlakeFabian

03-23-2005, 08:16 PM

i dunno if its been said already but id like to have the ability to import/export animated textures

also to have some funky texture that you cant convert a movie into, instead of breaking each frame down to a pic and makin a materialsequence out of it

just an idea :)

legacy-ffejnosliw

03-23-2005, 08:35 PM

According to a friend who was at the GDC presentation, animated textures, such as videos and such, will be supported. I don't know what file formats this will include, but it is a welcome feature.

legacy-AmericanK

03-24-2005, 09:01 AM

Realtime preview for movers.

legacy-AmericanK

03-24-2005, 09:49 AM

If you move a builder brush in perspective view it needs to automatically update in all other three viewport. Currently you have to click on the other viewport for it to update, and when you do this is deselects the brush, so you then have to reselect it.

legacy-Ein Stein

03-25-2005, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by AmericanK
If you move a builder brush in perspective view it needs to automatically update in all other three viewport. Currently you have to click on the other viewport for it to update, and when you do this is deselects the brush, so you then have to reselect it.

You know that little joystick icon in the menu bar of each viewport is a realtime preview toggle? Turn them all on and watch the magic.

I agree with realtime mover previews though.

legacy-SH Maximus

03-29-2005, 09:24 PM

There have been times I wished I had the ability to force and proscribe paths with pickups such as ammo and healthpacks like you can with navigations points. If you look at the properties of a navigation point there is an expandable submenu called navigation point. I'd like to see all those options available for all pickups. Plus, considering pickups already act like navigations points, I'm surprised this option isn't already there.

Angel_Mapper

03-29-2005, 10:22 PM

I just wish they had used edfindable a lot more, would save a lot of time especially for forced paths.

legacy-Vila

03-30-2005, 05:25 PM

I first would like to say my appreciation, and thank you to Epic.. on writing Epic (and they say they ne'er hear us), but they do..As I have wanted to since this last fix came out..But didn't know where to send it.

As skinner BTW who has a decent rig, but prefers 98SE, I am grateful when Epic heard, and made the new UnRealED compatible with 98SE.
I ne'er have any problems with the Editor at all since this fix.
As a new skinner, I would like to see this continued in the new UnreaEditor Windows 98SE compatibility, in new Unreal Editor..
Thanks again Epic for hearing not just the majority, but the minority of Skinners out here who want to contribute to the community and need the editor compatible with Windows 98SE.

Cheers mates

legacy-TOP-Proto

03-30-2005, 07:33 PM

as a coder i would like udebugger and UDE built directly into it so its all one package.

Also when your building mods, when you go to save, it knows to save to your mod directory and not the ut2005 / 6 / 7 or whatever ones.

Hsoolien

03-30-2005, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Vila
I first would like to say my appreciation, and thank you to Epic.. on writing Epic (and they say they ne'er hear us), but they do..As I have wanted to since this last fix came out..But didn't know where to send it.

As skinner BTW who has a decent rig, but prefers 98SE, I am grateful when Epic heard, and made the new UnRealED compatible with 98SE.
I ne'er have any problems with the Editor at all since this fix.
As a new skinner, I would like to see this continued in the new UnreaEditor Windows 98SE compatibility, in new Unreal Editor..
Thanks again Epic for hearing not just the majority, but the minority of Skinners out here who want to contribute to the community and need the editor compatible with Windows 98SE.

Cheers mates

Do NOT be suprised if none of the new engine (especially the Editors expected to come with it, which I understand to be even more demanding then the engine on specs) is 98SE/ME compatible.

I too wish it was so, but eventually you'll have to upgrade (as I did)

legacy-ImaCarrot

03-30-2005, 11:45 PM

Also when your building mods, when you go to save, it knows to save to your mod directory and not the ut2005 / 6 / 7 or whatever ones.

Do you mean when you save your .uc file or when you compile? I've never had a problem with it not saving in the right place so I'm assuming you mean compiling.

You do know about the mod switch right? Once that's working right, it should put your .u files in your mod's system folder. Always has for me anyway.

On to other news, I'm getting more and more excited about this engine! The next mod I create is going to be with this engine in mind, as far as the models go anyway, normal mapping is fun! I sure do hope they don't change the matinee system too drastically, since my mod will rely on it heavily.

Carrot

legacy-TOP-Proto

03-31-2005, 02:35 AM

no i mean for when adding your to your own custom content packages such as myTex.utx it always trys to save in the ut dir not your mod dir, it can cause frustrations because if you have 2 versions of the file 1 in ut and one in mymod, the ut one takes prescedence, and if you accidentally save to the ut one you can be like "wtf why isnt it updating"

legacy-Mr_Caravaggio

03-31-2005, 03:53 PM

I want an engine that doesn't screw with the gamma levels. It's just annoying having to compensate for the unreal brightness in skins and such.

legacy-Zynith

03-31-2005, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
Yes, but that was using the seamless level loading. I'm interested in the size of the individual pieces and how they're fit together, what optimizations need to happen etc.

I am wonderin the same thing. Would there be any bottlenecks to this?

legacy-Yakuza

03-31-2005, 04:07 PM

being able to create and blend character animations.

You would import the character and skeleton, then set up your animations within the unreal program, alsmost like an internal version of motion builder.

Also allowing you to create animations on the fly when working on something liek a cut scene.

maybe an online chat within the program with designated tags indicating topics relating to editing within the editor.

So lets say your working on a map and you just cant figure something out. This chat would allow you to talk with others who are using unrealED. You could chat about anything regarding whatever tab you chose. So if your have problem with terrain you could go to the level design tab.

you could send maps to each other as easily as it is on Irc or ICq. The cool thing about this is that in a matter of momnets two level designers can be looking at the same map and chatting about it with in the same program. And with a play what you see feature in the next engine the other person could load it and play all while talking to you through the chat log.

Also maybe like a tab for UnrealED home page, were you have access to tutorials, new maps that have been released.

legacy-TOP-Proto

03-31-2005, 04:45 PM

built in wiki, thats updated by the community, so that as time goes on the information about the engine and what it does, as well as code examples from others, and experiences with what works and doesnt can be collectively stored in one place.
Maybe develop this further to include a community that can help each other out (several wiki posts that prove useful promote the information provider to some new status such as intermediate coder, professional, elite, guru etc) and using the promotion allow special privalages to these people, including the ability to set themselves as "helpers" where people in trouble can ask someone real (BELIEVE ME IT HELPS WHEN STUCK!) a question or can be explained a fundamental concept easyier.

So.. some sort of expanding wiki, with some sort of rating system for the people who contribute, and some sort of special privalages for the contributers to help newer coders out etc.

(if this doesnt get made im sure someone should pick it up as a tool addition to ued3.0 i think its a great idea personally props to yaka who beat me to it! (great minds think alike ;P ))

legacy-TOP-Proto

03-31-2005, 04:51 PM

the matinee previewer updated to allow unrealscripted sequences to also be played out (this would be advantagous in single player modifications and cutscenes as well as matinee), so people dont build an AI array for their props, and have to go ingame to view them properly

legacy-TOP-Proto

03-31-2005, 05:02 PM

oh another teeny thing, i use dual monitors, id like to be able to put the popup dialogs onto my second monitor and not have them "snap back" to the main monitor :)

...

... Dear Santa.. for christmas i would like Epic to do... (lolz)

sorry for all the ideas, i was just studying, and my heads so full of .. stuff agh..

legacy-ImaCarrot

03-31-2005, 05:50 PM

Ahhh... I get ya now! Your right, that does get annoying. I've pretty much resigned myself to not having any of my mod files outside of the mod directory so I don't get one of those quirky unreal problems.

I've noticed that it defaults to the unreal directories the first time you try to save your stuff, whenever you save after that, it starts in the directory that you last saved.

This is reset after you shutdow unrealED of course, which is often if your working on code and the map at the same time.

Carrot

legacy-SH Maximus

04-01-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
I just wish they had used edfindable a lot more, would save a lot of time especially for forced paths.

Out of curiosity, could someone tell me what this edfindable is that Angel_Mapper is talking about?

legacy-Switch01

04-02-2005, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Tim Sweeney (11-10-98)

I'm also working on the new, enhanced UnrealEd, with lots of new features, improved stability, a plug-in interface, and other goodies. We don't have a date for this, but I'm expecting a public beta around new years, with final release early in 1999. a plug-in interface !

With good enough interface the community could add lots of features to UnrealeEd, free.
(Ab)using BrushBuilders, zombie TCPLinks or buggy hand-crafted headers is fun but not very productive.

legacy-TOP-Proto

04-02-2005, 07:32 AM

unrealed has a plugin interface already..

legacy-Switch01

04-02-2005, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by TOP-Proto
unrealed has a plugin interface already..
Got any docs or examples?

legacy-TOP-Proto

04-02-2005, 08:09 AM

ScriptComposer on this forum is a user based plugin mod, an example of a 3rd party plugin mod is Impersonator made by www.oc3ent.com

Angel_Mapper

04-02-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by SH Maximus
Out of curiosity, could someone tell me what this edfindable is that Angel_Mapper is talking about? Epic only uses it a few times, in FluidSurfaceInfos for the ClampTerrain, FluidSurfaceOscillators for the FluidInfo it affects, KConstraints for the Actors it constrains, and in Volume for the DecoList.

Instead of having to type the Object >> Name of the actor in the box, you just click Find and click on the actor you want it to use. That would have saved a lot of time if they had used that for more things, like putting pathnodes into the ForcedPaths property of jumppads and other pathnodes.

I use it a lot in Tamearia, saves time.

legacy-vynum

04-08-2005, 04:23 PM

I made maps for Quake 2 using the Quark Army Kife. It makes life a lot easier because they have a Undockable/Adjustable 3D Open GL window on which you can not only adjust from small to full screen, You have access to all Flags, common controls, etc.. simply via "righ click menus" while in 3d rendering mode.

Example: while in 3D mode its nice and fast to be able to righlick on any bsp object and obtain all their flags, adjustments, properties etc.

Having right click pop up menu's in a 3D rendering mode makes the design process go fast.

Have you ever lost the freaking camera in Unreal ED? Have you ever adjust the display properites to 5.0 , then it reverts back to 1.0 and you can't find the damn thing because your working on a large terrain?

This 3D rendering editing would solve this problem. Also, instead of using your mouse to move around, fly or walk, you simply assign 4 keys for X,Y.Z axes movements, and you can also adjust the speed of the movement.

Unreal ED does have a 3d rendering window, but it is nothing like Quark's Army Kife.

legacy-TOP-Proto

04-08-2005, 04:29 PM

another thing that would be handy :-

When we edit our UKX files (adding models) after you save it, it looses the textures you have put onto the model.

it be nice if it saved the textures you applied to the previous models.
(more i write this the more im inclined to ask someone to confirm what im saying)

Angel_Mapper

04-08-2005, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by vynum
Also, instead of using your mouse to move around, fly or walk, you simply assign 4 keys for X,Y.Z axes movements, and you can also adjust the speed of the movement.Eww. Hell no. I prefer UEd's camera movement system to any other program I've used.

legacy-AmericanK

04-08-2005, 05:21 PM

You know what I really want? Verticle aiming in Third Person. Why cant this be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Angel_Mapper

04-08-2005, 05:42 PM

Sure it can, Mr. Evil made a mutator for that.

legacy-AmericanK

04-08-2005, 05:47 PM

Where is the mutator. I would really like to install it...

legacy-^::B!G-A::

04-08-2005, 06:54 PM

Fix the damm annoying thing where you make a nwe texture say a shader, and it auto selects the enw one u just made, wt*, cuz when you hit use by axcident thinkin you selected it it crashes wit GPF.

And fix the codder, sometiems i want built in classes to maps, and doing default props is a pain in the @** cuz they dont show like UDE.

That would be sweet :D

legacy-AmericanK

04-08-2005, 07:22 PM

I would also really love it if they could organize all the mappack static meshes and texture packs. They are totally jacked up.

Dario D.

04-09-2005, 01:37 PM

I would like a tab at the top of the editor for switching between Map Editing and Modeling.

Nothing... and I mean NOTHING would pwn more than to have a 3dsMax-esque modeler and unwrapper with animation and bones capacity built into UnrealEd as a tab.

Of course, the important part would be that it has to actually be BETTER than 3dsmax, and more convenient. It's hard to get more convenient than Max7's EditPoly and UVW Unwrap...

But I want it in the editor :up:

legacy-NeoNautica

04-16-2005, 11:06 PM

A few more sound tools would be nice.

1. A volume that when the player is inside it it plays a specified sound (could probably code this with the current tech?)

ex: A large volume around a level playing a raining sound. Smaller volumes for inside buildings playing a sound of rain hitting a tin roof.

2. This one is a bit more complex: A "player" (like a cd player) that controls a wav file which is linked to "speakers" around the level. The "player" will keep all the "speakers" in sync with each other so when the person running around the level leaves the sound radius of a speaker, then comes back into the radius the sound will not start over from the beginning (which is what happens right now)

ex: Background music in a store. Lots of speakers playing the same sound that need to stay synced.

legacy-<|StP|>

04-21-2005, 12:47 PM

I'd like it, when you can not only move your movers, but even rotate them...

Angel_Mapper

04-21-2005, 01:11 PM

You can already do that.

legacy-stujitsu

04-21-2005, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper

Instead of having to type the Object >> Name of the actor in the box, you just click Find and click on the actor you want it to use. That would have saved a lot of time if they had used that for more things, like putting pathnodes into the ForcedPaths property of jumppads and other pathnodes.

I use it a lot in Tamearia, saves time.

I second what she just said.

Dario D.

04-21-2005, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by stujitsu
I second what she just said.

Agreed.

Imagine my pain; having to setup over 80 jump spots in Dreamus 2.5 and typing in the names of each one manually.

Perhaps it would be a tad easier to have a "Use Last" button beside each Forced Path entry. When you press it, it enters the last selected Actor, since usually the last selected Actor is the Pathnode that leads to the current one, if you're creating them in a progressive line.

Or just double-click the title area of each entry to instantly throw in the last selected Actor. Example:

Forced Paths
[0] | name [Find]
[1] doubleclick here | JumpSpot9 [Find]
[2] | name [Find]

Notice I threw in a Find button in case you're not making them in a progressive line.

-

I also want a DrawScale button at the bottom of the editor. I rarely use DrawScale3d (regular drawscale is so much faster and cleaner)

And finally, I would kill for Light Properties in a toolbar whenever a light is selected. Tired of digging through the actor properties trying to find the most used stuff.

legacy-Ein Stein

04-21-2005, 10:58 PM

Hammer has a very good system for using actors (entities) in property fields of others. You can use an eye-dropper tool or start typing the name and it brings up a list of actors starting with the letters you type. Kinda thing.

I'd like to see something like that.

Dario D.

04-22-2005, 02:38 AM

Man, pff, I can't even even use UnrealEd after using Hammer.

A map that wouldve taken me months on UnrealEd took me 10 days on Hammer. Super-duper fast, easy, and simple. Most superior BSP tools.

Dario D.

04-22-2005, 04:22 AM

Ok, I spent some time (for Epic I hope) to put together my dream UnrealEd...

I'm not done, but here's what the perfect Ued would look like to me:

(Click here to see the large version.) (http://www.deefrag.com/images/ut/misc/UedNew.jpg)

Disable Internet Explorer's AutoResize, or Hover, then click the box that appears in the bottom right.

http://www.deefrag.com/images/ut/misc/UedNew_sm.jpg

It's late now, but I'll explain a little about the features tomorrow.

For now, most of the toolbars either auto-hide, or only show up when you're doing a relevant operation, with the ability to work in "Expert Mode" where everthing autohides, leaving 95% of the screen for viewports only.

legacy-Ein Stein

04-22-2005, 09:07 PM

Or you can click these for existing screenshots of the new editor!

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/Cascade3.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/Matinee.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/TerrainEditing.jpg

;)

Dario D.

04-22-2005, 09:17 PM

Half :) and half :( - still the same lame methods of BSP creation, making construction take 3x as long as it needs to. :bulb:

In engines like HL2 it is very appealing to use MASSIVE amounts of BSP, because it is so fricken easy and fast, and textures are so incredibly good, that entire levels are made with minimal static meshes, and still look way better than UT maps.

Such was my experience using both engines/editors. UE3 = mostly static meshes, probably because the BSP tools are so bad and the textures don't help out much on the flat surfaces. Unreal is becoming more and more painful to work with.

Angel_Mapper

04-22-2005, 09:29 PM

I've found UnrealEd to have the fastest art pipeline.

Dario D.

04-22-2005, 09:33 PM

Hammer is only good for content that's already ready to be used. :(

Good for developers, but slow for people trying to get their own art in the game.

Angel_Mapper

04-22-2005, 09:54 PM

Yeah, getting custom textures and meshes into HL2's editor is more of a pain than it needs to be. :bulb: But for people who don't use custom content it's probably faster.

legacy-ThunderTom

04-23-2005, 04:32 AM

hmmm, still want that itunes toolbar.

legacy-vynum

04-23-2005, 03:57 PM

Two of the most Desired features I hope the new Unreal Ed would include is the following:

1. Tree View of "All" Map entities.
2. RealTime 3D Editing "without having to leave the window.

Here are 2 screenshots of Quark Army Knife in action. Sure Quake 2 is mainly BSP editing, but the fundimental nature of the editor makes map editing quicker, faster and more fluent. Anotherwords, Your are able to spend more time on layout, design, texture selection, U V texture panning, and map entitie propery settings all performed while in 3d view. Two words can only describe it. Totally Awsome.

TREE VIEW

http://members.cox.net/vynum/Tree_View.png

For example: lets say you wanted to find all the actors in your map or simply a few and delete them, with tree view it makes it easy. Or find all you lights, or just one particular one. With tree view you could find it very quickly and change properties easily.

REALTIME 3D EDITING

http://members.cox.net/vynum/RealTimeBrushEditing.png

Like I meantioned before, sure Unreal Ed has 3d capabilites, but editing bsp brushes is a pain. There is so much bad talk about bsp, I think alot of people are being mislead. It is ok to build simple basic structures in BSP without having to convert to static meshes.

check out the pic above very closely. If you notice while in 3d view I have full access to do what ever I want with bsp, this could also be done for static meshes in the new Unreal Ed.

Another good example is creating a bsp brush and its placement in the map. With Quark I dont have to worry about finding my "builder brush", then sliding it into place, then setting its size, bla bla on and on. With Quark I can do what is called "tag point" I can tag any face on the map and tell Quark to place a brush were I tagged. It could even be tagged on a face, or single verticy. At that point while in 3d mode I can reshape the brush to what ever size I want quickly, assign it textures & flags at the snap of a button. I could go on and on but these two features must be included. Any true map designer would'nt say otherwize.

legacy-von*ferret

04-23-2005, 07:33 PM

Make BSPs much more easier to contol similar to Source's Hammer Editor. However if Unreal3's engine is compeltely phasing out BSPs, than just dont even worry about my comment.

Vertice editing in Hammer is a lot easier as well, something that Unreal could benefit from along with my above comment.

Dario D.

04-23-2005, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by von*ferret
Make BSPs much more easier to contol similar to Source's Hammer Editor. However if Unreal3's engine is compeltely phasing out BSPs, than just dont even worry about my comment.

Vertice editing in Hammer is a lot easier as well, something that Unreal could benefit from along with my above comment.

I hope they don't phase out BSP tools in UE3...

BSP, as proven by HL2, can be even more effective (and way easier) than static meshes. Not to mention the feeling of control you have with good BSP tools.

Static meshes should be a TOOL, used for curvy and uneven surfaces, and *objects* found throughout the level.

I truly believe Unreal's excessive dependance on static meshes is due to the poor BSP tools and slow, problematic manipulation of brushes. (that, and everyone's desire for overkill)

With a new way to work with BSP (if UE3 imports Hammer's brilliant BSP workflow), everyone's reliance on Static Meshes can deflate back into a mere tool where BSP is insufficient.

Hammer's BSP workflow and UEd's everything else would make a near perfect editor, imho. Even though UEd has better "everything else", Hammer's BSP makes it, to me, a much better editor, where you can finish spectacular maps in 1/3 the time. All UE3 needs to do is steal Hammer's brilliance to regain the lead.

Hammer's lag with custom-content is only a minor setback.

Angel_Mapper

04-23-2005, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Dario D.
Hammer's lag with custom-content is only a minor setback. Says you. :bulb:

legacy-C+R Combo

04-24-2005, 01:06 AM

UED3 needs more cowbell. :sour:

Angel_Mapper

04-24-2005, 02:02 AM

lol

"Easy guys, I put my pants on, just like the rest of you one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make leet maps."

legacy-DarkNation

04-24-2005, 03:52 AM

These probably/might have been suggested before, but hey I'll mention them anyway, since you're asking :)

Suggestion 1: Personally, I would like to see support for .mp3s in UED3. .ogg files are probably smaller, but its difficult to convert mp3s (Popular format) to .ogg files (The Winamp method is the only one that I know of, although Im sure that other methods are out there).

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Ogg Vorbis, but the fact of the matter, is that MP3 is the more viable and widley used format.

I also completley underatand that the reason UED uses .ogg is because of the liscencing for the .mp3 format that Epic Games/Atari would have to buy in order for us (Modders) to use. I'm just saying that support for that format would be nice.

MIDI would be equally acceptable in addition to current formats.

Suggestion 2: Interestingly, On a few dialog boxes in the current UED, there is no [ x ] at the top-right hand corner of the dialog box if someone wants to exit the menu. Suppose someone clicked the terrain Edit selection by accident. Currently you have to select a different brush or movement selector in order to exit the Terrain Edit menu. I know this is a small suggestion, but little oversights like these can cause unneeded waste of time for the modeler on a schedule.

Thanks for reading this if you do... A little feedback to what you think of all our suggestions would be nice as well. (I don't imagine you could respond to EVERY suggestion made, but a little announcement every once in a while: "WE've heard a lot of suggestions that Idea A should be added, and we have done so, and added a few of our own implemations, so that now it is called Idea B." or whatever. Something like that I suppose?

well, good luck on Ued3

legacy-ThunderTom

04-24-2005, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by DarkNation
MIDI would be equally acceptable in addition to current formats.

MIDI equal to MP3? Hmm, I would prefer MP3 for sure!:p

legacy-Zynith

04-24-2005, 06:44 AM

TerainOscillators! :bulb:

legacy-DarkNation

04-24-2005, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by ThunderTom
MIDI equal to MP3? Hmm, I would prefer MP3 for sure!:p

I was implying that the format would be acceptable as a
supported format.

Of course mp3 would be preferred, but there are some levels which
might want to use MIDI for whatever reason, so instead of simply going with mp3, they could have a low-file size option.

legacy-Ein Stein

04-24-2005, 08:17 AM

MIDI songs sound different on every soundcard, because of the range of "instruments" that soundcard has. It's not a music file in the same sense as WAV or MP3 or OGG or whatever. So I doubt newer games would implement it.

legacy-ThunderTom

04-24-2005, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by DarkNation
I was implying that the format would be acceptable as a
supported format.

Of course mp3 would be preferred, but there are some levels which
might want to use MIDI for whatever reason, so instead of simply going with mp3, they could have a low-file size option.

Agreed! :)

legacy-Drunk Penguin

04-24-2005, 12:53 PM

More freedom with the properties of Meshes would be cool. Like, maybe making there visibility change every so often, or making them explode after taking damage. I think you can do the latter if you know the right coding though.

musilowski

04-24-2005, 01:13 PM

Make the decoLayer more easy for such things as collision of the meshes, etc...

legacy-von*ferret

04-24-2005, 06:58 PM

BSPs should be phased out. Here is my thinking.
BSPs pros right now is blocking visibility and better lightmaps.
BSPs cons are blocky and harder to work with, not as detailed.

Static meshes are basicaly the oposite in my opinion. With unreal3's ability for dynamic lighting the need for lightmaps are gone and that takes away 50% of BSPs pros. Now if static meshes also are capable of blocking visitibility without the need of seperate occluders, than there goes the other half of BSPs pros.

Source's lag for custom material was their own fault. They should've released easier and more compatible tools. The requirement to spend days struggling to learn via guess and check on the tools is tiresome on even the most seasoned "modder." Eitherway in new age engines the need for BSPs needs to evaporate.

legacy-DarkNation

04-24-2005, 08:16 PM

But wouldn't having Only static meshes imply that you could only import custom content made in another 3D program such as Max or Maya?

I agree with you that BSPs are blocky and not texture friendly, but they also allow a modder to quickly structure together the foundation of the level, and then add-in all of the pretty staticMeshes.

Another suggestion: Animated staticMeshes. Sounds a bit contradictory, but currently the only animation for meshes are Texture applied OVER the mesh, such as blinking lights or whater.

Also Currently, movers are made so that a mesh DOES have animation, but only upon interaction with the player

...I'm thinking more of self-animation, such as a Crane that picks up a platform and carries it over a large gap, back and forth, with no need for the player to walk on it to start the animation.

Idea 2: A thin dotten line indicating where the cone of lighting is going to be focused for a light... Obviously this would only be used for the editor and not how up in-game, but it could be a small feature that allows a modder to know exactly where her/his light is focused. It would really be helpful in an area that has a few different light, where telling where exactly the light is focused at.

Angel_Mapper

04-24-2005, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by DarkNation
Another suggestion: Animated staticMeshes. Sounds a bit contradictory, but currently the only animation for meshes are Texture applied OVER the mesh, such as blinking lights or whater.Those are just "meshes". You can have them in your level as decorations. Just look at my easter eggs in Reconstruct.

Also Currently, movers are made so that a mesh DOES have animation, but only upon interaction with the player

...I'm thinking more of self-animation, such as a Crane that picks up a platform and carries it over a large gap, back and forth, with no need for the player to walk on it to start the animation.Movers can be set to move automatically.

legacy-Drunk Penguin

04-24-2005, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
Those are just "meshes". You can have them in your level as decorations. Just look at my easter eggs in Reconstruct.

Movers can be set to move automatically.

Where are your easter eggs in Reconstruct? I really like that map, but I can't find them.

BTW, thanks for helping me the other day with the Maya problem Angel Mapper.

Angel_Mapper

04-24-2005, 09:49 PM

Hit the four white lights in the AI room with a shock rifle, then choose one of the three head wires. ;)

legacy-cayvaz

04-25-2005, 03:26 PM

Simple enhancements:

Make UnrealED more extendible using plugins or unreal script.

How about using the same controls in UnrealED as with the 3d programs ( example make panning, zooming, moving in UnrealED the same as Maya, 3dsmax )

Allow click drag resizing of builder brush. ( Like creating objects in 3dsmax )

legacy-Drunk Penguin

04-25-2005, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
Hit the four white lights in the AI room with a shock rifle, then choose one of the three head wires. ;)

Do you have any screen shots? I know the AI room is the one with the big head, but I don't know where the lights are.

legacy-Prefablab

04-25-2005, 04:55 PM

Better ingame weapon alignment tools!.........getting 1st person weapons in place quick without delays.......

I hope the lighting has been enhanced or even revamped!.....

Angel_Mapper

04-25-2005, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Drunk Penguin
Do you have any screen shots? I know the AI room is the one with the big head, but I don't know where the lights are. http://angelmapper.com/inforeconstruct.htm
The white light to the left of the fan in the first pic is one of the four up there.

Dario D.

04-25-2005, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Prefablab
Better ingame weapon alignment tools!.........getting 1st person weapons in place quick without delays.......

I hope the lighting has been enhanced or even revamped!.....

There's a way to bring up the same Actor Properties box that you find in Unreal Ed ingame, and you can adjust the 1st person weapons position while playing.
Then you just Copy or something and paste the new properties into your weapon class.

I don't remember how to do it though.

Angel_Mapper

04-25-2005, 09:14 PM

editdefault class=whatever

legacy-gladrich

04-26-2005, 09:01 AM

Bring back the mirror where the player can actually see his/her reflection.

legacy-Zynith

04-26-2005, 02:30 PM

Real reflective surfaces that reflect meshes and players. Kinda like a mirror but with texture and alphamasks applied.
Reflection could be rendered at lower resolution and blurred for a more difuse effect. Also stuff liike normal maps shouldn't be applied in the reflection. That would be to processing intense.

Just some toughts...

legacy-stujitsu

04-26-2005, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Zynith
Real reflective surfaces that reflect meshes and players. Kinda like a mirror but with texture and alphamasks applied.
Reflection could be rendered at lower resolution and blurred for a more difuse effect. Also stuff liike normal maps shouldn't be applied in the reflection. That would be to processing intense.

Just some toughts...

That would be nice, it was not it the current engine due to hardware problems.

legacy-ZeekPunk

04-28-2005, 04:17 AM

marquee select in the top/side/front views

legacy-Iron_Legend

04-28-2005, 10:41 AM

@ Dario D.

Can you send me your UED3 interface looks very good. :) just where i was looking for :D .

legacy-ydeardorff

04-28-2005, 01:08 PM

I would really like to see more automation in the map gen process. I mean let get rid of the yedious stuff that can be auto gen'ed. Like pathing lifts, laying bot pathing,.. isnt any aera within reach of a double jump, or walking technically a path?

There could be alot done like instead of making those little preview screen shots and going through the cropping and resizing,... how about just placing an "intro camera" ( you place it, set its direction and your done) if you place two or three then you automatically get a slide show intro preview.
If you make a string of cameras and label them preview they are auto configed for the intro to the map,.. ect.

How about making all this photoshop this and that go away by making the editor auto crop and resize ect for custom textures. You grab your digital camera, take the shot, then save the texture into the textures folder as a JPEG. Then you can import it or something, and everthing is done automatically.

Or how about making items from brushes add/ subtract ect. then being able to texture it and all that, then being able to make it into a static mesh without it being a pain in backside like it is now.

Theres alot of stuff that takes away from the map building process that isnt that hard but is just a paint to deal with, that could be easily made automatic. I would like to see the ability to attach lights to movers, with realistic light and shadow casting. The ability to have lights BE movers ect. Theres alot of little changes that can make a BIG difference to the mapping process for the better!

legacy-cyclonefox

04-28-2005, 02:12 PM

Or how about making items from brushes add/ subtract ect. then being able to texture it and all that, then being able to make it into a static mesh without it being a pain in backside like it is now.
Firstly you can not model in unrealED with Brushes as good as you can with maya.
Secondly, Performance! :bulb:
Then, You wont be able to animate a brush or a SM! They are static!
And you will never be able (if it was possible) to animatein UnrealED as smoothly as in extern programs...
Some would depend on extern programs like Photoshop or Maya.

But the idea of making everything inside UnrealED is not that bad... (And not that new)
I´ve herad you will be able to create animated meshes with the new tools in UnrealED, given with UnrealEngine3. The matinee tool, will be advanced a lot, and almost evry tool will be much better.^^ (Wish I had a better PC... v.v)

I will look, if I can find some links, where you can see the new advantages...

legacy-ydeardorff

04-28-2005, 02:40 PM

lol yeah I know but i can wish cant I!! besides I have made static meshes in the editor before,... they were nuthing fancy, but they worked. and as movers too!

basically I would like to see my smart tech go into the map making process, to simplify it for the end user. then more time can be had for creating the mapsand all its details, instead of the those little details that are completely repetitive for every map.

also in keeping with the times, make the editor capable of using MP3, jpegs, gif's ect. instead of having to do all this extra work to fit it into the editor for use. Instead just import the picture, and all the resizing ect is automatically done!!

legacy-Listah

04-30-2005, 12:11 PM

I'd like to see real-time scaling of static meshes, E.g. select the mesh in the 3d view and hold a key and drag to scale the size (hold a different key for different types of scaling, uniform, x/y etc). Also option to scale using the grid and off grid for fine tuning.

I'd also like an elastic band type tool for making cables/wires in maps as positioning/creating static mesh cables etc for power lines etc can be a big pain. So you have to select a texture, select a start point, set the radius and then drag it over to an end point, then drag at various points to add curves/bends (or use karma for offline play), also include option to have them with no collision so they don't use up much resources.:)

legacy-<|StP|>

04-30-2005, 02:46 PM

I don't think that this is possible, but I ever wanted to make a map over internet or LAN with some friends on different computers together. Like coding in teams...

legacy-Prefablab

04-30-2005, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by <|StP|>
I don't think that this is possible, but I ever wanted to make a map over internet or LAN with some friends on different computers together. Like coding in teams...

OOooh, nice idea..... several mappers working on same map through a network.....

Map resides in one place only and mappers connect to server to work on it.....everybody adding elements to it...

legacy-Zynith

04-30-2005, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Prefablab
OOooh, nice idea..... several mappers working on same map through a network.....

Map resides in one place only and mappers connect to server to work on it.....everybody adding elements to it...

Your call has been awnsered:
http://www.cubeengine.com/

To bad UT can't do this :sour:
Thinking of it, it might could with something like deformable terrain...

Angel_Mapper

04-30-2005, 04:19 PM

Argh. A lot of you are just asking for stuff that's already in the engine or is already implemented in the next one. I've got to stop checking this thread. :bulb:

legacy-Prefablab

04-30-2005, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Zynith
Your call has been awnsered:
http://www.cubeengine.com/

To bad UT can't do this :sour:
Thinking of it, it might could with something like deformable terrain...

Hey, nice engine! Thanks for sharing that with us!......

legacy-[B|K]ScrooLoose

05-01-2005, 02:50 PM

Yeh Fix the UNDO bug..... verry annoying

legacy-Yakuza

05-02-2005, 11:49 AM

I wonder how close it will be to the sand box editor for far cry. Terrain was actualy really fun to create in that editor.

legacy-Drunk Penguin

05-02-2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Yakuza
I wonder how close it will be to the sand box editor for far cry. Terrain was actualy really fun to create in that editor.

Terrian is fun to make in Unreal Ed too.

legacy-Zynith

05-03-2005, 01:02 PM

Yeah, but when doing big terrains, I prefer Sandbox :up:

legacy-Yakuza

05-03-2005, 02:30 PM

well its cool too cause the water is allready there too.

legacy-ThunderTom

05-04-2005, 04:35 AM

I would also like to have Drag and Drop Scaling of SMESHES, so you don't have to figure out what numbers to put in the scaling boxes.

I would like to have those boxes on the side, though.

legacy-PhiniusMaster

05-04-2005, 08:35 AM

Yakuza's right....that sand box had THE BEST and EASIEST terrain editing tool ever!

legacy-PhiniusMaster

05-04-2005, 08:36 AM

And maybe an engine that dosn't crash every time that you make a zone lighing to small? Maybe it's just me but ine crahes lift right and center!

legacy-SuperSonic

05-04-2005, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by PhiniusMaster
And maybe an engine that dosn't crash every time that you make a zone lighing to small? Maybe it's just me but ine crahes lift right and center!

it does crash left right and centre, it crashed on me twice yesterday whilst doing some stuff with shaders (although i think i did something a little wrong, but it could at least just warn me and not make me do all my hard work again)

legacy-PNutButterSnake

05-04-2005, 12:54 PM

Sorry. I did not read all the above posts, but here are my wishes:

1) Merge Vertices command for BSP brushes.
2) A Light Painter tool.

You know how we have this awesome Terrain painter tool??? Well I really really really want a Light Painter.

This tool would let you paint light onto your map instead of using Light Actors. I AM TIRED of using light actors. They do not work well except for the rigid model of point-lights! I think painters/artists do MUCH better jobs of lighting than we can do in Unrealed because we simply do not have enough control. Instead of painting our light, we must trust that these point sources will do what we want, and they are rarely do it well, or as quickly as we want.

Most of the tools in the Terrain Painter set have analogies for the Lighter Painter toolset as well:

a) Terrain Vertex ~ Light Sector edit (or whatever is closest to that in the new engine). This tool would be used to scale lighting in an area of the map. Unlike the version in the Terrain editor, this one should work in tandem with the Geom. Selection tool (see below) to give the artist more control.

b) Terrain Paint ~ Light Paint. What can I say? It adds light of the chosen color to the map when you press the Left Mouse button, and it subtacts light of the chosen from the map when you press the Right Mouse button. A VERY VERY useful feature of this tool would be to make the Shift key contrain it to straight lines, just like in modern raster programs (Photoshop, PSP, Gimp, etc). This would help to create realistic, crispy shadows or highlights. Note that the lines would be straight in 3D space, but that since the light painter tool works by projecting everything, these lines would be projected onto the nearby geometry of the map, and so the shadows would project correctly on non-flat geometry, just like in real life. Think about the BrushClip tools in Unrelaed today. You can draw straight lines with those either orthographically, or even in 3D space. The same idea would work here for the Light Paint brush when you hold shift, but instead of clipping through 3D geometry, it projects onto 3D geometry to modify the lightmaps.

c) Terrain Select ~ Geometry Selection. This lets you make 3D selections in the map to limit where you painting effects. This could be used to help create crisp, shadows with specific shapes, instead of using projectors. You can use the selection tool to "project" the area you want to paint onto in Unrealed, instead of doing that in-game with a pre-rendered texture.

d) Terrain Smoothing ~ Light Smoothing. This makes lighting blend better in an area. Absolutely essential.

e) Terrain Visibility ~ Special Lit Tool??? Not sure if this makes sense in the new engine, but if there is still the idea of special lit, this would set the special lit flag on BSP surfaces, or the bSpecialList variable to true on Static meshes. Used to quickly select a bunch of geometry and tell the editor you don't want it to be affected by the common lighting.

Some tools with no analogous counterpart in the Terrain Editor:
f) Stamp Tool: Paints stamp highlights/shadows using a gray scale texture (modulated) to modify the lightmap. You can for instance paint on the shadows of leaves of a tree, etc.

g) Eyedropper. Just like its counterpart in Photoshop, etc. Select the light color from an area of the map, so that another area can be painted with that same color. Note that it would not select the final COLOR on the surfaces, but rather the LIGHT values on those surfaces (from the lightmaps or vertex-lighting values as appropriate).

h) Dodge/Burn tool: Left Mouse button lightens the light values, right mouse button darkens.

legacy-vynum

05-04-2005, 02:53 PM

In importing textures etc. It would be nice if we could create sub-groups of the main Group.

GROUP: skybox
GROUP: BUILDINGS
subgroup: BUILDINGS/LARGE
subgroup: BUILDINGS/LARGE/base

ETC..

legacy-Zynith

05-04-2005, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by PNutButterSnake
Sorry. I did not read all the above posts, but here are my wishes:

1) Merge Vertices command for BSP brushes.
2) A Light Painter tool.

You know how we have this awesome Terrain painter tool??? Well I really really really want a Light Painter.

This tool would let you paint light onto your map instead of using Light Actors. I AM TIRED of using light actors. They do not work well except for the rigid model of point-lights! I think painters/artists do MUCH better jobs of lighting than we can do in Unrealed because we simply do not have enough control. Instead of painting our light, we must trust that these point sources will do what we want, and they are rarely do it well, or as quickly as we want.

Most of the tools in the Terrain Painter set have analogies for the Lighter Painter toolset as well:

a) Terrain Vertex ~ Light Sector edit (or whatever is closest to that in the new engine). This tool would be used to scale lighting in an area of the map. Unlike the version in the Terrain editor, this one should work in tandem with the Geom. Selection tool (see below) to give the artist more control.

b) Terrain Paint ~ Light Paint. What can I say? It adds light of the chosen color to the map when you press the Left Mouse button, and it subtacts light of the chosen from the map when you press the Right Mouse button. A VERY VERY useful feature of this tool would be to make the Shift key contrain it to straight lines, just like in modern raster programs (Photoshop, PSP, Gimp, etc). This would help to create realistic, crispy shadows or highlights. Note that the lines would be straight in 3D space, but that since the light painter tool works by projecting everything, these lines would be projected onto the nearby geometry of the map, and so the shadows would project correctly on non-flat geometry, just like in real life. Think about the BrushClip tools in Unrelaed today. You can draw straight lines with those either orthographically, or even in 3D space. The same idea would work here for the Light Paint brush when you hold shift, but instead of clipping through 3D geometry, it projects onto 3D geometry to modify the lightmaps.

c) Terrain Select ~ Geometry Selection. This lets you make 3D selections in the map to limit where you painting effects. This could be used to help create crisp, shadows with specific shapes, instead of using projectors. You can use the selection tool to "project" the area you want to paint onto in Unrealed, instead of doing that in-game with a pre-rendered texture.

d) Terrain Smoothing ~ Light Smoothing. This makes lighting blend better in an area. Absolutely essential.

e) Terrain Visibility ~ Special Lit Tool??? Not sure if this makes sense in the new engine, but if there is still the idea of special lit, this would set the special lit flag on BSP surfaces, or the bSpecialList variable to true on Static meshes. Used to quickly select a bunch of geometry and tell the editor you don't want it to be affected by the common lighting.

Some tools with no analogous counterpart in the Terrain Editor:
f) Stamp Tool: Paints stamp highlights/shadows using a gray scale texture (modulated) to modify the lightmap. You can for instance paint on the shadows of leaves of a tree, etc.

g) Eyedropper. Just like its counterpart in Photoshop, etc. Select the light color from an area of the map, so that another area can be painted with that same color. Note that it would not select the final COLOR on the surfaces, but rather the LIGHT values on those surfaces (from the lightmaps or vertex-lighting values as appropriate).

h) Dodge/Burn tool: Left Mouse button lightens the light values, right mouse button darkens.

Painting Lightmaps or "light"?

legacy-Yakuza

05-04-2005, 06:20 PM

If you have dynamic lighting whats the point of painting it. I am a newb so if I sound dumb its cause ...well....

"Its not premarital sex if you dont plan to get married."
-Crisus

legacy-PNutButterSnake

05-04-2005, 10:32 PM

It would let you paint the lightmaps or vertex-light values (I am assuming the next engine still alows you to do vertex-lighting when you want to).

As the point: How do you set up lighting? You still need to PUT LIGHTING in your map now don't you??? All I am suggesting is that instead of using point sources in Unrealed, we be allowed to directly paint the shape of the lighting just as painters do!

Have you ever noticed that good painting usually have *far* more beautiful lighting than photographs? Painters are able to capture the lighting as they see it (and maybe even enhance it), where as cameras tend to interefere with thei lighting with their point-source flash.

I don't really know the details about lighting in the new engine. I know it insanely dynamicish and buff. But I am assuming there is still a concept of lightmaps of one form or another right? Otherwise the lighting is going to look pretty cheesy unless we are forced to use projectors all over the place to get shapes into the lighting. What I'd really like to see a Light Painter tool that works regardless of the actual methods used in various parts of the map. It would just set up everything for you smartly.

Angel_Mapper

05-04-2005, 10:51 PM

Heh, as if maps didn't take long enough to make as it is. Light actors and Sunlights are much faster given the large sizes of the maps.

legacy-PNutButterSnake

05-04-2005, 11:15 PM

Well I disagree Angel.

For me they take LONGER because they rarely look the way I want and require far too much tweaking.

I guess it depends on your style of course. I am a bit of a perfectionist. This would make it far faster for me.

They should still leave in point source lights for those who want to use them but using a paintbrush to paint the light would be incredibly cool and quite fast for the effects you could ahieve, you must admit.

Cenobite

05-05-2005, 12:44 AM

You know how there is a package browser with only like half the packages on it. So you have to go in and out of opening the packages from the actual folder. (Textures/ Static Meshes...same thing)

Would be good if the browser contained EVERY package already loaded with all its contents.

Angel_Mapper

05-05-2005, 12:59 AM

http://sourceforge.net/projects/utx-viewer

legacy-Ein Stein

05-05-2005, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by PNutButterSnake
1) Merge Vertices command for BSP brushes.

Wouldn't that cause problems? Being that BSP is more than just geometry. You'd get curved surfaces unless you did it perfectly.

legacy-olivehehe_03

05-06-2005, 12:53 AM

The biggest thing I reckon the new UEd should have is tools and things to make it easier for mapping noobies (like me :P). For example:

- Pre-made emitters. Instead of having to set everything, have premade emitters for common things like fire.
- Easy water generation. In a map I just made, i wanted to add a small creek and found out it's not as simple as I thought. Make it possible to just add the volume, which will automatically do the fluid surface thing for you, as well as the skin on the water.
- Wizards! For the more complicated things make wizards, for example, if you want an emitter ask the user for the texture to use, the angle, and all that stuff and make it really simple and easy to understand.
- Pre-made skyboxes. I know they aren't really that hard but it is really annoying and time consuming to make a good one, so make pre-made skyboxes, for example, UEd could have a night skybox with star and other stellar bodies, a snow skybox with snowy mountains etc.
- Automatic bot pathing. I know it may seem far-fetched but if UEd could detect where your terrain and meshes are and automatically path your level it would save alot of time

I'm sure everyone gets the point by now, I reckon the new UEd should make it easier for noobs to get into mapping, but still let professional mappers do all their stuff the same way they do now.

legacy-ImaCarrot

05-06-2005, 02:12 AM

- Wizards! For the more complicated things make wizards, for example, if you want an emitter ask the user for the texture to use, the angle, and all that stuff and make it really simple and easy to understand.

The emitters already have a wizard, it was added with the fourth or fifth patch.

- Pre-made skyboxes. I know they aren't really that hard but it is really annoying and time consuming to make a good one, so make pre-made skyboxes, for example, UEd could have a night skybox with star and other stellar bodies, a snow skybox with snowy mountains etc.

They already have these as well, I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt and think that you know where to get them.

Pre-made emitters. Instead of having to set everything, have premade emitters for common things like fire.

Same as the pre-made skyboxes

I honestly don't think the next unrealED will be easier to learn than the current one, I shudder when I think about all the "how do I do normal maps?" questions I'm gonna see around here.

Carrot

legacy-Zynith

05-06-2005, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by olivehehe_03

- Easy water generation. In a map I just made, i wanted to add a small creek and found out it's not as simple as I thought. Make it possible to just add the volume, which will automatically do the fluid surface thing for you, as well as the skin on the water.

I disagree, water allways looks better if you do and tweak it yourself.

legacy-Yakuza

05-06-2005, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Zynith
I disagree, water allways looks better if you do and tweak it yourself.

What about some kind of fluid paint tool. With modifiable brush sizes in width and depth. So you made a dry creek bed with the cool terrain tool.

But oh you want some water in their. So you grab the fluid painter and you think to yourself, "okay so its in the middle of summer in Arizona" so I only want a little creek. You adjust the width of the fluid surface you want to paint then determin how deep you want the creek to be by ajusting the depth number.

Or lets say you want a beach. The fluid paint tool wont pass through brushes so all you have to do is create the slope of your beach using the terrain tool. So after your done using the fluid painter you now have a large body of static water. But hey beaches have currents and waves and stuff. So another feature could be the current setter. All you do is activate the current setter tab then begin to paint on top of the fluid surface in the direction you want the current to flow.

legacy-Zynith

05-08-2005, 05:28 AM

Not a bad idea, IF they could make it that userfriendly.

legacy-Ein Stein

05-08-2005, 10:47 AM

Hammer has nice water. You make a brush, set the top face to a water texture, the other five faces to NoDraw and voila! Water.

legacy-Drunk Penguin

05-08-2005, 10:55 AM

They need to organize packages better in the next engine. It takes forever to find what your looking for.

legacy-ydeardorff

05-11-2005, 11:30 AM

I was watching a kids movie called the dark crystal. And there is one scene where there is a giant planetarium, with brass or bronze planet rotating around each other simulating the stars and planets.

How about the ability to make compound movers. movers that can be "attached" to another object or mover. like a planet orbiting a sun, with a moon orbiting the planet.

This could have alot of awesome effects for doors, ect.

And if this can be added without the need for scripting it would have alot of uses!

And add alot more options for the map builders!

legacy-Yakuza

05-11-2005, 01:04 PM

haha ogra's lair.

huh elfling

legacy-Zynith

05-11-2005, 03:29 PM

Considering the bad packagin problem, how about they included something like "redirection lists". Basicly they are files, wich, when you open them automaticly load certain meshes/textures from different packages.
Eg. You want egyptian textures, so you don't need to go into all packages and load the seperatly, but you load all egyptian stuff with just one click.

legacy-ZpankR

05-11-2005, 04:42 PM

I Think you have to let the game free... it's like this. i just don't understand why didn't you in the second version of ued didn't put
an auto builder when the user saves the match.

legacy-Yakuza

05-12-2005, 01:38 PM

in case some one else mentioned it.

REAL TIME CLOTH PHYSICS!!!!!!

legacy-Drunk Penguin

05-12-2005, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Yakuza
in case some one else mentioned it.

REAL TIME CLOTH PHYSICS!!!!!!

Cloth physics? Wouldn't you rather have them spend time on the weapons, characters and enviroments?

legacy-Yakuza

05-12-2005, 06:43 PM

No.
Seriously what else do they need to do to the weapons.

What about games or mods that dont have guns. I have been working on a project for the last couple of years. How nice it would be to finally have an engine that has effecient support for the robes and cloth my characters wear.

I would love to see this engine allow more freedom with character creation.

Not to mention how more emersive your enviroments and characters would be if drapes actualy moved against a gentle breez Or finally having a Jedi that can wear a robe.

legacy-Kriege

05-12-2005, 08:54 PM

For a free editor I think UnrealEd is already pretty nice to work with. Although it would be nice to see:

File Type converters (in and out). Especially for those special types like the terrain bitmaps. No need for lots of new functionality if the import/export functions are very robust.

It would be great to see ALL of the code in the script editor, i.e. default properties.

A method to list all of a maps file dependancies.

Tag all of the files that are part of the distributed build. It's annoying when you use something that turns out to be from a custom file and then it doesn't show up when run from someone elses machine.

Better yet, have the editor pack ALL content into the map itself by default and then have the editor check for standard content duplication and remove anything that is standard from the map file.

Ability to delete entries from the actor browser from the right button dialog. Sometimes chunks of code get left behind even if all the actors are removed from the map.

OH YEAH!! Almost forgot! Do something about that far clipping plane! I think anything more than 40k UU gets hacked off and has to then be hidden with fog and background color. For ONS maps that get fairly big the far clipping plane should be at least 100k. As a mapper I'd rather leave it as infinite as possible and deal with the optimization issues that result. This is especially a problem for maps that use mods like Air Power where the vehicles cover huge distances very quickly.

Hmmm, thats all for now!

Thanks for asking for input!