[FINAL RELEASED] ONS-Mothership [Updated 9/6/04]

[legacy-robo422]

The final has been released!

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=7084
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410501

Name: ONS-Mothership
Description: In 2216, after the astounding defeat of the Skaarj, their Mothership lay shattered and forgotten. Eventually drifting out of Earth orbit, the Mothership crashed on an uncharted barren world light-years away. Now two rival Skaarj clans, the Iron Skull clan and the Red Claw clan, have landed to battle over the Mothership. Will you fight alongside the Iron Skull, or with the Red Claw?
Comments: This is my first serious attempt at making a map. I need feedback on just about everything: weapon placement, vehicle placement, link setup, etc.

Beta 9 will be the last beta unless significant problems are found.

Screenshots:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/MothershipMap.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LevPrev3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LevPrev2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LevPrev1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LevPrev4.jpg

Credits:
- AS turrets by Grinning Hermit
- Various sounds and textures from Unreal
- Various textures from Unreal II
Download: http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=7036

Beta 2 changes:
-Added Grinning Hermit's AS Turrets to myLevel, so no external packages are needed.

Beta 3 changes:
-Turrets now function without ONSTurrets.u.
-Added Redeemer
-Added Double Damage
-Added Health and Shield pickups
-Fixed PlayerStarts that were below the terrain
-Changed/Added some decorations
-Added some more Antiportals

Beta 4 changes:
-Improved botpathing
-Fixed various places where Goliaths and Leviathans would get stuck
-Removed Ion Plasma Tank
-Added PlayerStarts to PowerNodes that didn't have any
-Added WeaponLockers to PowerNodes that didn't have any
-Changed some deco stuff

Beta 5 changes:
-Turrets now function without ONSTurrets.u (really!)
-Improved framerate in southern base
-Added radar map picture (it's WIP, don't complain about how crappy it is)
-Added more link setups for you to play with (need feedback on those)
-Brightened map a bit

Beta 6 changes:
-Added more link setups that feature the Ion Plasma Tank instead of the Leviathan
-Framerate issues around southern base fixed
-Decoration added in southern base
-Added level preview
-Added level description
-Flames now hurt you
-Turret respawn time increased from 30 to 45 seconds

Beta 7 changes:
-Secondary and Secondary+IonTank link setups are now Default and Default+IonTank and vice versa
-All Axon stuff is now Red Claw stuff
-Added slime to kill you if you fall off footbridge in upper Mothership
-Optimizations
-Botpathing improvements
-Smoothed terrain
-Added Goliath to each base
-Moved Super Shield and Keg o' Health pickups in each base
-Sniper towers in each base are now 50% larger
-Moved Redeemer
-Moved Double Damage
-Added Ion and Target Painters
-Added proper radar map
-Updated level preview
-Updated level description
-Other aesthetic changes

Beta 8 changes:
- Added 5 extra PowerNodes
- Redid vehicle arrangement
- Retextured terrain
- Updated level preview
- Improved skybox
- Thickened fog
- Moved and rotated Link Turret at Mothership Entrance.
- Moved and rotated Link Turret inside Mothership.
- Increased turret health from 150 to 500.
- Increased turret respawn time from 45 to 90 seconds.
- Smoothed terrain.
- Added additional deco to each base.
- Moved Redeemer.
- Moved Double Damage.
- Removed SuperShield under Mothership.
- Minor aesthetic improvements
- Added BlockingVolumes behind PowerCores
- Updated Radar Map
- Removed all old link setups
- Added 12 new link setups(Default, Default+IonTank, Secondary, Secondary+IonTank, Pentagram, Pentagram+IonTank, Two_Diamonds, Other, Other+IonTank, Alternate, Additional, Additional+IonTank)

Beta 9 changes:
- Improved botpathing
- Toned fog down
- Added BlockingVolumes where players and vehicles could get stuck
- Fixed some vehicles sinking below ground
- Fixed various HealthChargers that were below ground
- Fixed radar map getting blurry at low detail levels
- Decreased Link Turret health from 500 to 300.
- Smoothed terrain
- Fixed inbalance in Two_Diamonds link setup
- Moved various turret control panels

FINAL version changes:
- Fixed some Raptors sliding off their bases
- Aesthetic changes
- Minor optimizations
- Added easter eggs
- Changed level preview
- Tweaked fog
- Fixed fogring only appearing at high detail levels
- Fixed areas where Mantas could get snagged
- Fixed screwy collision on some static meshes

[legacy-Carbs]

Oh jeez! THAT is a great idea for a map! D/L-ing!

EDIT: Failed. It doesn't show up on the map list and it won't open from the UT2004\Maps folder.

[musilowski]

AS-Mothership's aftermath, nice concept.
Downloading...

[legacy-hydro]

looks awsome. downloading right now.:up:

i can also help with some ideas after i see the map.

[legacy-Druss_Slayer]

ok i've said it before and i'll say it again unreal playground download sucks!! can some please send me this map in an e-amail and i can provide a mirror for it

[legacy-kizza]

Love the bottom pic.
The lighting is neat!

[legacy-RealGerf]

map looks awesome great idea! :up:

[legacy-Meroin]

Incredible Idea!

Especially cool since I hate Mothership ;)

[Radiosity]

You really should make sure you have all necessary packages in the zip before you upload it somewhere.



Warning: Failed to load 'ONSTurrets': Can't find file for package 'ONSTurrets'
Warning: Failed to load 'ONS-Mothership-beta1': Can't find file for package 'ONSTurrets'
Warning: Failed to load 'LevelSummary ONS-Mothership-beta1.LevelSummary': Can't find file for package 'ONSTurrets'

[legacy-robo422]

I knew I forgot something. You need to get ONSTurrets.u from Grinning Hermit's site at http://www.grinninghermit.com/unreal/.
Sorry about that!

[PointlesS]

the lighting in the last pic looks sweet...downloading...

[legacy-Mastame]

I like the idea VERY much: Mothership after it crashed down on a planet. :)

Only i don't download beta's.
I'll wait till its final. :up:
Can't wait!! :p

[legacy-=UM=TheMaster]

Hmmm...wow. The concept behind this level is awesome, you should be given brownie points just for that.

The gameplay and node setup I'm not too sure about, but hey, maybe it'll turn out great.

So far, I approve.

:up:

[legacy-MrWotsit]

Just played it, BEAAUTIFUL! But some serious bot problems...

They seem to enjoy sitting around just to the East of the North base which I'm assuming isn't intentional... They also like jumping out of vehicles seemingly at random just to walk the rest of the way on foot...:S
Many problems with accessing vehicles..
A lot of very weird bot behaviour going on from what I can see...

Also, it's an enormous map and therefore I guess will accommodate MANY players so does it perhaps need more transport?

Once again, the visual beauty and concept of this are flawless. One of the most impressive pieces of mapping I have ever seen...

Can't wait to see this reach final!

[legacy-robo422]

I'm not quite done with the botpathing yet. I just slapped some RoadPathNodes in it so the bots would actually do something other than stand around.

[legacy-Fnix]

Sweet maps I got some suggestions.

1 - In the main bases there are these all gray lines in a cross shape. I don't know if your going to fix them but please give them a texture.

2 - Add some health and powerups. Maybe a redeemer hidden somewhere.

[legacy-Major Lee High]

Great idea man!!

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by Fnix.USA

1 - In the main bases there are these all gray lines in a cross shape. I don't know if your going to fix them but please give them a texture.

I'm not sure what lines you are talking about. Could you please clarify?

[CVROY]

Looking nice! Is it ok that I put this on my server?

When you release new versions, make sure you change the name to V2, V3 etc so clients will not have errors when joing servers for version mismatch.

[legacy-robo422]

Sure, go ahead.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Lighting = Awesome.
Downloading......:up:

[legacy-»»Duiveltje««]

downloading now

[AnubanUT2]

The aesthetics of this map are breathtaking ... :eek: :D . That ship is simply enormous ... what more can I say? I'm just waiting for you to fix the Bot issues ... but man what an awesome map!!!! Looking forward to the release with better bot AI :) . Also the Predator works really good on this map and since the Pred is my favorite vehicle I'll be playing this map quite a bit. Between this map and well so many others (including one my friend Nutter is making ... just wait until you see that MAP ... Whoah!!!) . I just don't know how to decide which one to play. Most of the time I just close my eyes and click ... now though, I'll have to make sure this is in my top 5 ONS maps list and I play it at least once a week. Damn ... so many great maps and so little free time to play them. Oh well that's my prob ... I'll just have to learn to live without sleep ;) .

Normally I won't play a map without good bot pathing but this map is gorgeous. I don't need them around spoiling my peace. It's fun to just drive and fly around on this map ... like taking a nice Sunday drive.The scope of this map is incredible. Looking forward to your next map as well. It should be interesting to play now that you've gained some experience and taken notes on the things you'll have to pay closer attention to. Just keep on mapping ... you have the talent. Peace :) :up: :up:

[legacy-=UM=TheMaster]

There is an issue that you may already know about, but I'm going to bring it to your attention anyway.

The link turrets are basically a super link gun, so their alternate fire can be used just like a normal link gun's alt fire as a way to repair nodes and vehicles. This could become a problem, because due to their powerful nature, players could abuse them and maybe make nodes and vehicles much harder to take down than usual. I'm not totally sure about it yet; I haven't been able to play against bots or anyone yet. Just keep in mind that these assault turrets and vehicles were made for that - assault. So bringing them into onslaught could change gameplay, possibly drastically and for the worse.

This does make a good test for my idea of a link gun vehicle, though, to see just how fast the super link gun can repair nodes and vehicles. Maybe the link turret would work great in ONS just for this reason.

[T-Shinzon]

This is not directly related to the map itself, but you should include a readme file with some copyrights and stuff like that.

[legacy-robo422]

Beta 3 released!
Changes:

-Turrets now function without ONSTurrets.u.
-Added Redeemer
-Added Double Damage
-Added Health and Shield pickups
-Fixed PlayerStarts that were below the terrain
-Changed/Added some decorations

Get it here:
http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6240

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by =UM=TheMaster
There is an issue that you may already know about, but I'm going to bring it to your attention anyway.

The link turrets are basically a super link gun, so their alternate fire can be used just like a normal link gun's alt fire as a way to repair nodes and vehicles. This could become a problem, because due to their powerful nature, players could abuse them and maybe make nodes and vehicles much harder to take down than usual. I'm not totally sure about it yet; I haven't been able to play against bots or anyone yet. Just keep in mind that these assault turrets and vehicles were made for that - assault. So bringing them into onslaught could change gameplay, possibly drastically and for the worse.

This does make a good test for my idea of a link gun vehicle, though, to see just how fast the super link gun can repair nodes and vehicles. Maybe the link turret would work great in ONS just for this reason.

The way I see it, if the turret is repairing something, it's not shooting at you. If it's not shooting at you, you can easily kill it with a few rockets or something.

[legacy-FireCrack]

Originally posted by robo422
The way I see it, if the turret is repairing something, it's not shooting at you. If it's not shooting at you, you can easily kill it with a few rockets or something.

yeah, link turrets take more damage from the sides and back so if it's not shooting at you you can hurt it more.


The link turrets dont show up for me, anyone know what's wrong?

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by FireCrack

The link turrets dont show up for me, anyone know what's wrong?

Get the latest version. In the previous version, I had the modified PowerCores, PowerNodes, and VehicleFactories in myLevel, but the factories were attempting to spawn turrets that were in the package ONSTurrets. Since not everyone has that package, not everyone sees the turrets.

[legacy-FireCrack]

Originally posted by robo422
Get the latest version. In the previous version, I had the modified PowerCores, PowerNodes, and VehicleFactories in myLevel, but the factories were attempting to spawn turrets that were in the package ONSTurrets. Since not everyone has that package, not everyone sees the turrets.

first of all, i have the latest version, second i have onsturrets anyways. mabye it could have been a fluke that time, i'l try again.

[CVROY]

WOW, this map is really shaping up!

Please finish it:)

[legacy-robo422]

I'm currently having a problem with the turrets refusing to spawn. Post here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=396181) if you can help.

I've fixed places where the Goliath and Leviathan would regularly get stuck, improved (somewhat) the botpathing, and added PlayerStarts to the PowerNodes that didn't have any. I'll release the next beta as soon as the problem is fixed.

[legacy-robo422]

Gaah, forget it. I have spent far too long trying to squash this one problem. Beta 4 has been released. I'll just include ONSTurrets.u instead of trying to put the turrets in myLevel.

Changes:

-Improved botpathing
-Fixed various places where Goliaths and Leviathans would get stuck
-Removed Ion Plasma Tank
-Added PlayerStarts to PowerNodes that didn't have any
-Added WeaponLockers to PowerNodes that didn't have any
-Changed some deco stuff

Get it here: http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6294
SERVER ADMINS: If you want to play this map on your server, ONSTurrets.u needs to be added to the ServerPackages in UT2004.ini.

[legacy-INSTAGIBBLER]

I have to say this map should be called: ONS-HOLYFUIKING-HUGE.

It takes a loooooong time to load even on my machine wiht 2gb of ram. unreal i have to say.

Anyway, played a couple rounds and some areas are really dark, to the extent that I cannot even see my character or vehicle they are in. Anyone else get this.

Middle nodes almost seam irrelevent with the standard setup as you just have to control the other ones to get to core.

Not too sure why the map is 35MB but it would be nice to get it down to 25MB or so.

IMO

GIB

[legacy-FallenAngel]

Great map. Trying out beta 4 now

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by INSTAGIBBLER
Anyway, played a couple rounds and some areas are really dark, to the extent that I cannot even see my character or vehicle they are in. Anyone else get this.


I am already aware of that, I will add more lights there in the next beta.


Originally posted by INSTAGIBBLER

Middle nodes almost seam irrelevent with the standard setup as you just have to control the other ones to get to core.

Since I don't really play Onslaught all that much, I have no idea what a good link setup looks like. Do you have any suggestions?

[legacy-INSTAGIBBLER]

I am not an ONS expert at all but it just seems that each side can fastrack down either side and go for the node immedietly. See pict.
http://www.design-studio.com/king/current.jpg

Now as much as I love both central nodes, one may need to go for a better settup to force players to use the middle node, otherwise there is no real reason to go there. AND I have to say the node inside the ship is the BEST node of all. So many access points via ground and air. so it is not too easy to defend.

Anyway, here is a proposed alternative setup for you. It would be great for others to comment on the setup as well.
http://www.design-studio.com/king/option1.jpg

GIB

[legacy-robo422]

Thanks, I'll use this setup for now.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
Thanks, I'll use this setup for now. :D

Does this mean we get a new version ... (say yes please ;) )? Peace. :)

[legacy-=UM=TheMaster]

Originally posted by INSTAGIBBLER
Anyway, here is a proposed alternative setup for you. It would be great for others to comment on the setup as well.
http://www.design-studio.com/king/option1.jpg

GIB

Yes, the current node setup isn't perfect, but this node setup is worse. Why? Levi access. Red has a definite advantage here. The node with the levi is only 2 away from red, but 3 away from blue. Unless there's a levi on node 4 I can't remember.

[legacy-robo422]

Here are some link setups that I came up with.
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LinkSetup1.jpg
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LinkSetup2.jpg
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/LinkSetup3.jpg
I would appreciate feedback on these setups.

[T-Shinzon]

The top setup seems like it has too many "optional" nodes.

The middle setup also seems to have a large amount of "optional" nodes.

The bottom setup in my opinion is the most promising, although I personally find that too many node paths make the powercores very vulnerable.

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by T-Shinzon
The bottom setup in my opinion is the most promising, although I personally find that too many node paths make the powercores very vulnerable.

Node paths? Where? Each PowerCore only has one node linked to it.

[legacy-nipsy]

While playing on my 16 man ONS server tonight and with the goal score set to 4, the map would crash the game server after a team destroyed the power core once to score 2 points. ONSTurrets was in use in my ServerPackages and the map was beta4.

[legacy-robo422]

While playing on my 16 man ONS server tonight and with the goal score set to 4, the map would crash the game server after a team destroyed the power core once to score 2 points. ONSTurrets was in use in my ServerPackages and the map was beta4.

Could you post your UT2004.log?

[legacy-=UM=TheMaster]

One other thing I've forgotten to mention, you may know about - load times. They're MASSIVE. It takes twice or three times as long to load this map than others.

[legacy-robo422]

I'm aware of that, as well. I'm just not sure how to fix it.

[CVROY]

Learn how to put the .u file in mylevel or servers will have to push the .u files to clients:(

Looks nice and coming along great! The load time is a bit long though. Realy has the feel of a crash site, and I think this map is right up there with the beauty of this ut2003 classic of a classic:)

http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=2859

Later robo, see you on the server:)

[legacy-robo422]

I have my own little theory as to why the !#^@ turrets aren't spawning.

By default, Grinning Hermit's modified VehicleFactories are set to spawn something like 'ONSTurrets.ASTurret_LinkTurret_ONS.' I don't want it to spawn something in an external package. So I change it so that it will spawn 'myLevel.ASTurret_LinkTurret_ONS' instead. What I think is happening is that the VehicleFactory is looking for an external package called myLevel instead of looking in the map itself. How do I know? The turrets themselves do not save into myLevel unless I put the actual turrets in the map somewhere. I have no idea how to fix this.

As for the load times: Since I don't know what's causing the long load times, I don't know how to fix it.

[CVROY]

The effects in the red base seem to drop FPS a bunch... the blue base is smooth.

anyone else experience this?

[legacy-robo422]

I'm working on that, as well. I have far too many high-poly meshes in there.

[legacy-Senor Stompy]

Sounds like a kick @$$ map, but before I download I have a few questions:

1. Is this map Mac OS compatable? I'm hoping that there isnt a huge difference between the Mac and Windows versions of UT2004. For all of you who may have negative opinions about my choice of operating system, I'd like to remind you that this is a TECHNICAL QUESTION and not me trying to turn this into a system war thread.

and

2. This will be my first non-official download, what do I have to do to be able to use the map?

Keep up the good work!

[CVROY]

the mac version uses the same map file format as the win version except for some system files that are engine related, not content dependant... you'll be all set:)

[legacy-robo422]

Beta 5 released!

Changes since Beta 4:
-Turrets now function without ONSTurrets.u (really!)
-Improved framerate in southern base
-Added radar map picture (it's WIP, don't complain about how crappy it is)
-Added more link setups for you to play with (need feedback on those)
-Brightened map a bit

Download:
http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6370

[legacy-mycelo]

I'm working with ONSTurrets myself, and it seems that you have some hard time making it work properly. Could you answer some questions at your best convenience?

1) Do you managed to make control panels be linked with turrets? Exactly what you had to do? Mine refuses to link, even though I'm sure the tag properties are correct.

2) What do you do to make ball/link turrets not self-controllable? (only via control panel)

3) Your bots are using the Assault turrets and control panels? Any advice here?

4) What exactly have you done to make the file ONSTurrets.u unnecessary for distribution?

Thanks and nice work. :up:

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by mycelo
I'm working with ONSTurrets myself, and it seems that you have some hard time making it work properly. Could you answer some questions at your best convenience?

1) Do you managed to make control panels be linked with turrets? Exactly what you had to do? Mine refuses to link, even though I'm sure the tag properties are correct.

2) What do you do to make ball/link turrets not self-controllable? (only via control panel)

3) Your bots are using the Assault turrets and control panels? Any advice here?

4) What exactly have you done to make the file ONSTurrets.u unnecessary for distribution?

Thanks and nice work. :up:

1) In the VehicleFactory, make sure the VehicleTag (under ASVehicleFactory) is the same as the control panel's PawnTag (under Trigger_ASUseAndPossess).

2) Change the AIVisibilityDist of the VehicleFactory (under ASVehicleFactory). Setting it to 0 will make it not shoot at you at all, and setting it to a high number (e.g. 1,000,000) will make it shoot at you from across the map. This number controls the radius, in Unreal Units, in which the turret will 'see' you and shoot at you.

3) My bots aren't using them either, as far as I know.

4) I have the modified PowerCores, PowerNodes, VehicleFactories, and Trigger_ASTurretControlPanel saved into myLevel. If I save the modified turrets themselves into myLevel and change the VehicleClassStr (under ASVehicleFactory) from 'ONSTurrets.ASTurret_<turret name>_ONS' to 'myLevel.ASTurret_<turret name>_ONS', the VehicleFactory doesn't look in the map itself and instead looks for an external package. Since most people don't have an external package called myLevel, the VehicleFactory isn't going to spawn anything. My solution to this was to use one control panel for each turret and to use the stock turrets (UT2k4AssaultFull.ASTurret_<turret name>) instead of the modified ones. I have no idea if the above works with Minigun Turrets, Sentinels, or Ion Cannons, so if you're using any of those, you're on your own.

Hope that helps!

[legacy-mycelo]

1) In the VehicleFactory, make sure the VehicleTag (under ASVehicleFactory) is the same as the control panel's PawnTag (under Trigger_ASUseAndPossess).I did. But it never works with xxx_ONS control panels in my maps. However the demo map included with ONSTurrets package does work until I modify anything on it. A simple cut&paste on a control panel actor makes it to stop working and even crash UnrealEd sometimes.


2) Change the AIVisibilityDist of the VehicleFactory (under ASVehicleFactory). Setting it to 0 will make it not shoot at you at all, and setting it to a high number (e.g. 1,000,000) will make it shoot at you from across the map. This number controls the radius, in Unreal Units, in which the turret will 'see' you and shoot at you.Ok, but bots controlling this turret (if they control it at all) will be affected by this setting? Say, if AIVisibility is zero does mean that bots controlling this turret won't be able to see anything? (assuming that bots will somehow control turrets in ONS)


3) My bots aren't using them either, as far as I know.That's a shame. Maybe it's related to what I mentioned above. I saw my bots controlling minigun/ion turrets a few times, but I don't really know if they'll control the xxx_ONS ones. Furthermore, I saw they bumping their vehicle on minigun turrets, so I set its PathCollision to true, but I don't know how much it changes the AI behavior.


4) (...) I have no idea if the above works with Minigun Turrets, Sentinels, or Ion Cannons, so if you're using any of those, you're on your own.So do you give up using spawning Assault turrets into your map? It seems that I'm going to bundle this package with my map... :mad:

And now a n00b question - what do you mean when you say to save things in "myLevel"? Why and how do I do this and what is this "myLevel" thing after all?


Hope that helps!Helped a lot for sure. Thanks for your kindness. ;)

[legacy-robo422]

I did. But it never works with xxx_ONS control panels in my maps. However the demo map included with ONSTurrets package does work until I modify anything on it. A simple cut&paste on a control panel actor makes it to stop working and even crash UnrealEd sometimes.

Not sure about that, you'll have to ask someone else.


Ok, but bots controlling this turret (if they control it at all) will be affected by this setting? Say, if AIVisibility is zero does mean that bots controlling this turret won't be able to see anything? (assuming that bots will somehow control turrets in ONS)

Since I've never been able to get bots to use Link and Ball turrets, I don't know. Bots can use Minigun Turrets and Ion Cannons just fine, though.


So do you give up using spawning Assault turrets into your map? It seems that I'm going to bundle this package with my map...

I could get everything into myLevel, it's just that the VehicleFactories were looking for an external package with that name instead of looking in the map itself. The modified turrets aren't really necessary if you use one panel for each turret, so I used the stock turrets instead.
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Embedding_Code


And now a n00b question - what do you mean when you say to save things in "myLevel"? Why and how do I do this and what is this "myLevel" thing after all?
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/MyLevel

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

I'm, as some people in this forum will know i reckon, a bugger e.g i check for bugs. I found a few, but firstly. O M F G. This is the first time i have said this;

This map is beautiful.

It really is. This is THE best map i have seen since UT99. I really is that good. The lighting is fan tastic, it really is. There are some beautifully choereographed moments. Like this screen shot.

http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7219/Shot50.th.jpg (http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=Shot50.jpg)

It really a beautiful map.

The only thing i found that was a bug was the music. It's bugging me. (getit). It's terrible. It does the map no justice. If you can play JET; look what you have done, whilst playing this map.
http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/ups/birchy/second2.gif

This map has alot of potential e.g. make it quickly into a finished version, and submit it into make something unreal contest.

A couple of suggestions;

A couple more decorations of dead skaarj skeletons possibly?
The Leviation, reconsider? I do like a good levtian, however after battling with another team for 20 minutes to finish it with a couple of blasts. :(

The turrets, they respawn too quickly really, and so battling with this turret after dieing 5 times, is then respawned in a minute, very annoying. :(

Um, there is A TINY bug in the skaarj base. Where the raptor is, there is a step between the floor and the sand, where u can get stuck, or u have to jump which is kinda annoying. No biggy though.

other than that brilliant work!

Harsh

[legacy-robo422]

There are two things that I really don't understand about your post.


The only thing i found that was a bug was the music. It's bugging me. (getit). It's terrible. It does the map no justice. If you can play JET; look what you have done, whilst playing this map.

Are you saying that the music itself is crappy? Or are you saying that the music doesn't fit the map? What is JET anyway?


The Leviation, reconsider? I do like a good levtian, however after battling with another team for 20 minutes to finish it with a couple of blasts.

Are you suggesting that I remove the Leviathan? Or are you saying that I should move it? Or do you want me to add another one?

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

Er Yer. I thought that the Leviathan was just basically too slow for such a big map. Also, when travelling along the high sand banks it's very annoying to just fall of the edge.

The music doesn't really fit the map. It's too atmospheric. It's just like on chord being struck for a long time. It's kinda boring, for an exciting map. I dunno who could do some different music. I would, (i'm a composer also), but i kinda too busy at the mo; so i've ben listening to songs in the backround. (JET)

And yes JET is a band, an english one. Here JET (http://www.jettheband.com/)

[legacy-mycelo]

Not sure about that, you'll have to ask someone else.It's working now. I don't now what I did, and I hope it doesn't stop working again.


Since I've never been able to get bots to use Link and Ball turrets, I don't know. Bots can use Minigun Turrets and Ion Cannons just fine, though.Yes, even the modified versions. I saw bots using control panels once in a custom game, I'll investigate and if I learn something I'll let you know.


I could get everything into myLevel, it's just that the VehicleFactories were looking for an external package with that name instead of looking in the map itself. The modified turrets aren't really necessary if you use one panel for each turret, so I used the stock turrets instead.I'll stick with the modified turrets, it's better suited for ONS since it's always attached to the nearby team (locked for enemy just like ONS stuff). Furthermore, it spawns only when the node is active and won't attack both teams at the same time. The drawback is to have to include the package file, but this is just a minor annoyance, the file is pretty tiny and everyone has a lot of stuff in the system folder anyway.

Thanks a lot for sharing this much of precious info. ;)

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
I thought that the Leviathan was just basically too slow for such a big map. Also, when travelling along the high sand banks it's very annoying to just fall of the edge.

I'll think about removing the Leviathan.


Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
(...) It's too atmospheric. (...) It's kinda boring (...)

Uhh... I'm confused.


Originally posted by mycelo
I'll stick with the modified turrets, it's better suited for ONS since it's always attached to the nearby team (locked for enemy just like ONS stuff). Furthermore, it spawns only when the node is active and won't attack both teams at the same time.

I said that I was using the stock turrets, not the stock VehicleFactories. What I have is the modified VehicleFactories spawning stock turrets. This way, the turrets don't shoot at everyone and are only active when a nerby node is active. I looked at the code, and apparantly you only need the modified turrets themselves if you want multiple turrets accessible through one control panel.

[legacy-mycelo]

Originally posted by robo422
I said that I was using the stock turrets, not the stock VehicleFactories. What I have is the modified VehicleFactories spawning stock turrets. This way, the turrets don't shoot at everyone and are only active when a nerby node is active. I looked at the code, and apparantly you only need the modified turrets themselves if you want multiple turrets accessible through one control panel.I'm a little confused but, nevermind.

Are you good with ScriptedSequences? I think it's possible to make bots use the control panels with AI script. I don't know how yet, but I'll let you know provided you're interested to do so.

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

Don't worry about music. It was me SORRY! i had a crappy Unreal 2 music piece over and over (creating the same sound). I'll never use f11 again.

Instead of the leviathian; could i suggest placing sum superweapons in sum of the mothership's more "intimate" parts, in order to encourage exploration, and that the Levthian is basically too Slow for my liking on such a large map with huge hills.

Could I also suggest that you turn the vechiles' headlights on. There are some dark parts in this map, which i'm sure u no of, and headlights would realy help. I like the dark parts, but not when u just can't see anything. Don't brighten the level up, just turn on their headlights.

Could I also say that I really like the new beta, but If it is possible :D could u add more details to the human base. There are lots of details in the Skarrj base (like holograms), but none in the human base!

FINALLY, I'll like to say that your map kicks ass in a daredevil persective as well! A cool level 70 pour moi.

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/7734/Shot63.th.jpg (http://img37.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img37&image=Shot63.jpg)

Oh yer 1 more thing i found this bug;

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/549/Shot00061.th.jpg (http://img37.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img37&image=Shot00061.jpg)

Ok. Great work keep it up!

Harsh

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by mycelo
Are you good with ScriptedSequences? I think it's possible to make bots use the control panels with AI script. I don't know how yet, but I'll let you know provided you're interested to do so.

I have never used ScriptedSequences before.


Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
Could I also suggest that you turn the vechiles' headlights on. There are some dark parts in this map, which i'm sure u no of, and headlights would realy help. I like the dark parts, but not when u just can't see anything. Don't brighten the level up, just turn on their headlights.

The headlights are turned on. They look like real headlights in bright lighting, but in dark places, they don't actually illuminate anything. It's the way Epic (or whoever) coded it, not much I can do.


Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
Oh yer 1 more thing i found this bug;


Thanks, I'll look into that.

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

You may want to talk with the developers of Torlan Nights....

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/3326/Shot65.th.jpg (http://img28.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img28&image=Shot65.jpg)

Also... I prefere the SEcondary node setup.

Harsh

[AnubanUT2]

First off this is a magnificent map and though there may be a few very small bugs it works extrememly well. As a SW QA person with 7 years of real world experience I was pleasantly surprised by the small amount of bugs I ran into. The optimization has indeed improved ... however, the area around the southern base still is a little slow ... some areas around the upper area of the ship ... but nothing that could alter gameplay. The flow is good and the bots do a fair job of putting up a fight. This is the only area that needs further refinement (bots) but overall they are pretty good at causing mayhem! :)

As for the Lev ... my vote would be to keep it in. When properly used this veh makes it nearly impossible to score and so it really shows off a person's skill level. Slow but incredibly powerful ... they are great and should be used more. If you must replace it then consider using the Ion Tank in its place. There are too many ONS maps that stick to the Goliath alone ... and I have never understood this because there are other options. Anyway this is a great map and I look forward to one more beta before you make this a FINAL. Peace :) .

[DigitalBacon]

Wow man..absoulty wow! Im gonna download the latest version and give it a spin...this looks awesome.

[legacy-Senor Stompy]

Arg, UnrealPlayground just doesnt like me! Maybe it has something to do with my firewall settings, maybe not, but it just WONT let me download this map! Could someone post a mirror or something? Please?:(

[legacy-Senor Stompy]

Sorry about the double post, but never mind my above post. I managed to get it.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Hey i luv the looks of this map, im updating to the latest version (i have beta 2) but i have a pretty good screen of my vehicle in ur map, so i figured this would b the place 4 it:
http://www.beyondunreal.com/image.php?src=http://mods.beyondunreal.com/images/149/big/ONSMotherShipBETA2.jpg

Grood Jorb!

[Triminal]

:eek: :up:
freaking amazing job here loving it

[legacy-hydro]

reminds me of the movie "Planet Of The Apes" :bulb:

[legacy-robo422]

Beta 6 released!
Changes:

-Added more link setups that feature the Ion Plasma Tank instead of the Leviathan
-Framerate issues around southern base fixed
-Decoration added in southern base
-Added level preview
-Added level description
-Flames now hurt you
-Turret respawn time increased from 30 to 45 seconds

Get it here: http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6462

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

D/Ling

[legacy-Jeenitals]

Ugh, can someone mirror this please? It looks like an amazing map, but I'm sick of having to fork over my email in a registration form every time I want to download something.

Not that I can download from UnrealPlayground anyways, even after borrowing someone's login info...

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by Jeenitals
Not that I can download from UnrealPlayground anyways(...)

I can't find any other sites that accept beta maps. Which means I'm stuck with Unreal Playground.

Maybe this will help...


Originally posted by hal
First off... UP rocks. It's one of a handful of places that's truly worth registering for.

Second, you don't actually have to turn off your software firewall. Just allow the www.unrealplayground.com domain in your privacy settings. In Norton's 2004, you'd do something like this:

Open your firewall control panel.
Click on Privacy Control.
Click on Configure (right hand of applet).
When the popup box appears, select Advanced.
Select Add Site on the Web Contents popup.
Enter the URL www.unrealplayground.com and press OK.
Select www.unrealplayground from the site tree.
Make sure your Information About Visited Sites section is set to "Permit".

As I understand, the code does a referral check and ensures that you are properly logged in. Your privacy software blocks this information by default.

[legacy-Jeenitals]

It is enabled, it just keeps giving me the 'this feature is for registered users only' even after I've logged in.

Oh well, guess I'll wait for the full version. Can't wait :D

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by Jeenitals
It is enabled, it just keeps giving me the 'this feature is for registered users only' even after I've logged in.

Oh well, guess I'll wait for the full version. Can't wait :D

Don't know what could be wrong, then.

Anyway, does anyone have feedback regarding the lastest beta?

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

I like it, though i did find a large bug (this may be relevant to all betas...)

When inside the 'ship, coming from the bottom, when just before coming out the top (to the outside, on the footbridge thingy)

there seems to be sumsort of invisible wall preventing u from going out via a scorpian or hellbender

and if u (acidentally) turn left, there is a bug where the car goes into the ground.

I really like the south base now. I liked the 4 beta's lighting beta, so i just fiddle with the gamma and contrast and i'm happy. :D

ANother bug would be the inward facing lights at many of the nodes. U seem to be able to drive, but not walk, though them. Weid Non? :bulb:

Otherwise, great map, great gameplay, great design!

Oh, and how do i change to plama tank???

Harsh :p

[legacy-robo422]

When inside the 'ship, coming from the bottom, when just before coming out the top (to the outside, on the footbridge thingy)

there seems to be sumsort of invisible wall preventing u from going out via a scorpian or hellbender

and if u (acidentally) turn left, there is a bug where the car goes into the ground.


Could you post a screenshot? I'm having trouble visualizing where you are talking about.

EDIT: Never mind, I found it.


ANother bug would be the inward facing lights at many of the nodes. U seem to be able to drive, but not walk, though them. Weid Non?:bulb:

I had them blocking vehicles before I released the first beta, but the vehicles kept getting snagged on them.


Oh, and how do i change to plama tank???

There are four separate link setups that use the plasma ion tank. (Default+IonTank, Secondary+IonTank, Other+IonTank, Alternate+IonTank)

[legacy-MadJackMcJock]

This map is an absolute stunner - reminds me of the final scenes of Independence Day. There are two things though that occurred to me:

1) Optimisation: the map runs a lot less efficiently than i'd hoped. Has it been optimised yet?

2) What would a night-time version be like?

[legacy-kizza]

I love that a night time version is becoming so common now for maps. It's really neat. I hope there is one 'cause that could be really nice. Dim blue light from the sky, and the main bright light coming from the green lights of the ship. Pretty.

[legacy-robo422]

1) Optimisation: the map runs a lot less efficiently than i'd hoped. Has it been optimised yet?


It's been optimized, but not completely. There are few Antiportals scattered around, but that's about it.



I love that a night time version is becoming so common now for maps. It's really neat. I hope there is one 'cause that could be really nice. Dim blue light from the sky, and the main bright light coming from the green lights of the ship. Pretty.

I'm thinking about making a VCTF night version after I'm done with this one.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

for optimization that antiportal thing will be really critical, its just so open. Then try zoneing the map in quarters, cause with the fog it should be effective, and try makeing the actual mothership another seperate zone. Basically, because of the size and openness of the level, ur pushin the polys a little too much, so if u make the zones or get the fog to like auto-antiportal at the end of visibility, the gfx card wont have to render the entire level every stinkin frame. :D

Awesome work nevertheless! :up: :up: :up: :up:

[legacy-robo422]

get the fog to like auto-antiportal at the end of visibility, the gfx card wont have to render the entire level every stinkin frame. :D

The fog already does that.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

well than thats a big boost for epic!


and one less thing you could 'optimize'......

[legacy-MadJackMcJock]

Originally posted by robo422
It's been optimized, but not completely. There are few Antiportals scattered around, but that's about it.

I'm thinking about making a VCTF night version after I'm done with this one.

I hope you spend some time optimising it because I really think it will be worth it. It's such a great idea that fits in really well with the Unreal timeline - it'd be a shame if only a proportion of people could appreciate it fully.

If you do make a night time vCTF version - how about a night time ONS version then?? I'm sorry - ONS is just too fun to let up :p

[legacy-robo422]

In what areas do you find the lowest framerates? I need to get an idea of where I need to optimize most.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

I found a bunch! :D

Most importantly make the mothership par a ZONE!!!!!!! my fps dropped by about 10 from a halfway decent 30 to 18 almost every time, and even when ur just near it it can take a toll. Heres an example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/DaJMasta/DaMuddaShip.jpg

Second place is at the red and blue bases, those are some high poly meshes and alot of animation, it looks really cool, but a simmilar drop in framerate. And another example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/DaJMasta/Base.jpg

i would spend time to make the walls antiportals. Because of the openness of the map zones just arent practical. I would also put antiportals under the terrain in the hills because the conputer still renders the polys behind the terrain of other static meshes. if u wanna c an example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/DaJMasta/TerrainAntiportals.jpg

And finally this is a very high poly map in general, as u can c here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/DaJMasta/FullMap.jpg so there probablly isnt much you can do to protect all those raptor drivers, who can see evrything.... :bulb:

Now i was using the BETA 5, but i don't think all of this would be tweaked ;)

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by MadJackMcJock
If you do make a night time vCTF version - how about a night time ONS version then?? I'm sorry - ONS is just too fun to let up :p

After thinking about it a bit more, I don't think this map would work too well with VCTF.


Originally posted by DaJMasta
Most importantly make the mothership par a ZONE!!!!!!!

I can't make the interior of the Mothership into a zone because then the terrain goes all screwy. I'll see what I can do, though.


Originally posted by DaJMasta
And finally this is a very high poly map in general, as u can c here: so there probablly isnt much you can do to protect all those raptor drivers, who can see evrything.... :bulb:

If you're up that high, the fog should cover a lot of that stuff.

[legacy-compjarg]

Needs to be more optimized ill say that, but i assume you already know that lol

I would suggest more fog, and try using the Argento effect to make it look like the dust hasnt completely setteled yet, and the texturing on the terrain needs work.

Sorry i ignored this for such a long time, i thought it was something else ;)

[legacy-robo422]

(...)try using the Argento effect(...)
What do you mean by 'Argento effect?'


(...)the texturing on the terrain needs work.
It does? How so?

[legacy-compjarg]

what i mean by the Argento effect is how in ONS-CBP2-Argento, the maper use lots of Caronas, and it gave a realy cool effect, i think that kind of effect would probably be realy cool in this map because it could make it look almose as if the dust from the crash hasn't yet settled.

As for the texturing, I know its a beta, but it doesn't look like a huge crash site, its just a sandy, desert texture with a rocky path. you could beat it up a little, give it a few more layers? I realize you might want to stray away from to puting to much in the map because of frame rates, but it would make a large impact on the general ambiance of the map.

I dont mean to say your map can easily be compared to crap or anything, because this is an absolutely amazing map. Im just saying it can be improved. Everybody needs constructive critisizm(SP?) to make a good map.
Keep up the good work, cant wait to see how this turns out when its completely done.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

be careful with coronas though...

coronas vs. preformance (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=401640)

[legacy-robo422]

Just took a look at ONS-Argento. Can't really say that I like that effect. Besides, it'll be hard to implement here, because the map is huge. Besides, I need to put the coronas up high, so they don't look screwy around the mothership, but if I do that, you can't see them from the ground.

As for the terrain... Specifically, what layers should I add? I personally think it looks fine as is.

[legacy-compjarg]

Im no mapper or anything, but I think it should look more like a crash site, its just to clean right now, like the crash had little to none effect on the terrain. it needs of a futuristic warzone/debree covered look.

Again I'm very sorry if I sound at all rude, but this is a great map, and constructive critisizm(SP?) like this will help to perfect it even more.

[legacy-robo422]

That doesn't sound like adding layers on the terrain, but more like adding wreckage static meshes and scorch marks everywhere.

BTW, it's spelled 'criticism.'

[legacy-Senor Stompy]

Let me just say that this map TOTALLY KICKS! You should be very proud of the map you've built! Can't wait till the final version!

[legacy-compjarg]

Originally posted by robo422
That doesn't sound like adding layers on the terrain, but more like adding wreckage static meshes and scorch marks everywhere.

BTW, it's spelled 'criticism.'

Thank you very much, i knew i spelt it wrong lol.

Actualy, i was thinking about adding layers to the terrain, because more static meshes wouldn't improve framerate at all. It just needs to be slightly more dirty, grityer. And about zoning off the mothership interior, it might be possible with some work, but you will need another terrain info actor, and would have to nail the allinement perfectly, its not the easyest trick in the world, but theres a small chance that it could work.
I hope to see this map on CliffyB's Ownage someday. (Is he still doing it? I havent seen it updated lately, or any ownage user maps in the community tab.:weird:)

[legacy-Iceboy2003]

Wow. Great idea for a map.

Kinda like the CBP2 map that takes place after AS-Convoy.

I'm not very good with beta testing, so I'll wait until the final version arrives, and then it is surely going on my server.

[legacy-compjarg]

Originally posted by Iceboy2003
Kinda like the CBP2 map that takes place after AS-Convoy.
ONS-CBP2-Argento, it was mentioned earlyer, I was thinking prety much exactly the same.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by compjarg
Thank you very much, i knew i spelt it wrong lol.

Actualy, i was thinking about adding layers to the terrain, because more static meshes wouldn't improve framerate at all. It just needs to be slightly more dirty, grityer. And about zoning off the mothership interior, it might be possible with some work, but you will need another terrain info actor, and would have to nail the allinement perfectly, its not the easyest trick in the world, but theres a small chance that it could work.
I hope to see this map on CliffyB's Ownage someday. (Is he still doing it? I havent seen it updated lately, or any ownage user maps in the community tab.:weird:)

CliffyB pretty much stopped doing the Ownage but there is another person who decided to pick up the slack and he has a site called Pwnage. the link is http://sparky.beyondunreal.com/pwnage/. Peace :) .

[legacy-Iceboy2003]

Originally posted by AnubanUT2
CliffyB pretty much stopped doing the Ownage but there is another person who decided to pick up the slack and he has a site called Pwnage. the link is http://sparky.beyondunreal.com/pwnage/. Peace :) .

Finewolf is doing something too called Weekly Recommend, however he hasn't done one in 2 weeks i think.

[legacy-Grinning Hermit]

robo422: This map looks great. It's nice to see those Assault turrets put to use in an ONS map.

A few but's though, hope you don't mind the comment.

The framerate: Especially in south base it's bad and I have a very good videocard (9800 XT). Might be better to use a copy of north base, saving both in map byte size and in video memory. All the emitters are slowing down too. The introductory story suggests this ship has been here for quite some years,why is it still burning? Maybe it shouldn't burn but have an occasional energy crackle here and there.

Everything you use is static mesh, I don't see any BSP's used which might help in zoning off sections. You might use some invisible cylindrical passthrough volumes for the main section of the mothership and make zone portals in that. Not sure it would work. But if it does, it helps the framerate a lot. Having a lot of different static meshes is memory consuming, try to reuse as much as possible. This is probably responsable for the close to 40 Megs this map weighs.

This map is big! Compacting it by reducing base size (a quarter of the current size) and being able to enter only a portion of the mothership (maybe having it stuck in a canyon so not all can be seen) would cut travelling distances short. It would also force players to travel through the beautiful mothership, because currently there's no need.

Unintentionally it has become quite a list. Please do understand I like your map very much and I would hope to see it in a CBP pack or something alike, for it has great potential. The above mentioned points are in the way of such great fame I fear. Good luck and I hope to see your map mentioned a lot in the near future!

ps: the turret belonging to the node at the base of the mothership (left middle node) did not spawn in my game. I think it doesn't have enough room to do that.

[legacy-robo422]

Especially in south base it's bad and I have a very good videocard (9800 XT). Might be better to use a copy of north base, saving both in map byte size and in video memory.

What is your framerate in the southern base, compared to the framerate in the northern base and the rest of the map? I have a Radeon 9200, and I get around 30 FPS in the southern base, 40 in the northern base, and an average of 50 in the rest of the map.


The introductory story suggests this ship has been here for quite some years,why is it still burning? Maybe it shouldn't burn but have an occasional energy crackle here and there.

Uhh...because.


Everything you use is static mesh, I don't see any BSP's used which might help in zoning off sections.

I hate BSP. BSP hates me. Any time I try to make something interesting with BSP, I get a BSP error. Yummy. :down:


You might use some invisible cylindrical passthrough volumes for the main section of the mothership and make zone portals in that.

I've already zoned off the entire interior of the mothership.


Having a lot of different static meshes is memory consuming, try to reuse as much as possible. This is probably responsable for the close to 40 Megs this map weighs.

It's up at 50 megs now. No idea why. I import one custom mesh and the filesize goes up 10 megs. :bulb:


This map is big! Compacting it by reducing base size (a quarter of the current size) and being able to enter only a portion of the mothership (maybe having it stuck in a canyon so not all can be seen) would cut travelling distances short. It would also force players to travel through the beautiful mothership, because currently there's no need.

I think it's too late to fix that. Maybe in a future map...


ps: the turret belonging to the node at the base of the mothership (left middle node) did not spawn in my game. I think it doesn't have enough room to do that.

Already fixed.

[legacy-TalonKarrde]

To those ATI people complaining about framerate: Time to get a real card then, isn't it? :P. My 6800 Ultra gets 100+ FPS on all sections of the map... Of course, I never seen it drop below 90 on ANY map... Running everything on the highest setting, though since I run at 1600x1200, I don't have AA at 16

[legacy-DaJMasta]

6800 is a generation ahead of the ATis mentioned here. Leave us alone. The x800 Pro could probably push a little higher....

BUT ANYWAYS.

A trick im trying for these terrain heavy meshes, is to hide antiportals inside terrain. This will prevent out of sight static meshes and terrain not to be rendered, which will probably increase framerates.

Btw robo: that framerate is quite respectable, especially for a 9200, may i ask how much memory you have? Cause i have a 9600 Pro with slightly underclocked memory (cheap ass GeXCube....), but i get a relitively constant 40 FPS around and closer to 30 or 25 in heavy action or near big stuff......

[legacy-robo422]

A trick im trying for these terrain heavy meshes, is to hide antiportals inside terrain. This will prevent out of sight static meshes and terrain not to be rendered, which will probably increase framerates.

I've already put antiportals everywhere in the big hills and such. The problem is, they don't actually do anything. If I look through them, the game is still rendering everything behind it.


Btw robo: that framerate is quite respectable, especially for a 9200, may i ask how much memory you have?

It's a 128MB Radeon 9200.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Originally posted by robo422
It's a 128MB Radeon 9200. [/B]
lol, i meant system memory :D

and even if the antiportals don't help with terrain, they help with effects (i think) and static meshes. So its good u shoved em in there.

Again, nice work!

[legacy-robo422]

lol, i meant system memory :D
In that case, it's 512 MB.


and even if the antiportals don't help with terrain, they help with effects (i think) and static meshes. So its good u shoved em in there.

The antiportals are literally doing absolutely nothing. Everything behind them (terrain, static meshes, BSP, particles, etc.) is being rendered.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

lol. i guess it would only do anything to a Static mesh that was Fully covered.... and most of urs are really big. :noob:

[legacy-Grinning Hermit]

Originally posted by robo422
What is your framerate in the southern base, compared to the framerate in the northern base and the rest of the map? I have a Radeon 9200, and I get around 30 FPS in the southern base, 40 in the northern base, and an average of 50 in the rest of the map.


Probably depending on settings, but mine are on highest at 1600x1200. Framerate drops below 30 in south base to almost 20 at some points but stays around 40 in the north base.



Uhh...because.


Emitters generate moving polygons, making more calculations necessary. Restrain in their use and fps goes up.

For the rest you pretty much covered my comments. All except the number of static meshes. If you would use a copy of north base for south instead of using unique meshes for each base you would probably save 5 - 10 MB off your filesize!

[legacy-robo422]

I've decided to try using a copy of the north base for the south base to see how much is shaved off the file size. Since I don't really like having two identical bases, I fiddled with the color in the southern base. So, here's a shot of the southern base now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipSBase.jpg

Since changing the southern base means that some of the other power nodes look out of place, I've changed those, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipROutpost.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipRCliffNode.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipBehindMothership.jpg

Here's the northern base, in comparison:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNBase.jpg

What do you think? Should I keep it this way? Should I tweak this a little? Or should I keep it the way it was before?

Changes so far:
-Added Goliath to each base
-Moved Super Shield and Keg O' Health in each base
-Added Ion and Target Painters
-Moved Redeemer
-Smoothed terrain
-Optimization
-Numerous aesthetic changes

In case anyone was wondering, the file size is 41.7 MB now, as compared to 48.1 MB before I did this.

[legacy-Grinning Hermit]

Quite a bit taken off the Mbs if you ask me. Nice :)

[legacy-DaJMasta]

it looks cool, but purple? Not that i have any ideas for a better one.... and it is kindof an alieny color.
:p

[legacy-Iceboy2003]

Originally posted by DaJMasta
it looks cool, but purple? Not that i have any ideas for a better one.... and it is kindof an alieny color.
:p

Purple and green work. Those two colors plus orangish-brown are the skin colors of the UT2k4 skaarj

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

With this new change to the bases, the bio should change appropriatly. The bio should talk about 2 skaarj clans fighting over the mothership's Ion core to create to tank possibly? Just an idea.

Harsh

[AnubanUT2]

Any ETA on the new updated map? Just trying to keep up. Peace :) .

[legacy-robo422]

Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
With this new change to the bases, the bio should change appropriatly. The bio should talk about 2 skaarj clans fighting over the mothership's Ion core to create to tank possibly? Just an idea.

This is the one I'm currently using:

In 2216, after the astounding defeat of the Skaarj, their Mothership lay shattered and forgotten. Eventually drifting out of Earth orbit, the Mothership crashed on an uncharted barren world light-years away. Now two rival Skaarj clans, the Iron Skull clan and the Red Claw clan, have landed to battle over the Mothership. Will you fight alongside the Iron Skull, or with the Red Claw?


Originally posted by AnubanUT2
Any ETA on the new updated map? Just trying to keep up. Peace :).

Two weeks(TM).

Actually, I think I might be able to release it sometime this week. Just have to finish the optimization (which is very tedious).

[AnubanUT2]

Thanks for the polite response. You wouldn't believe how many devs respond with "it's done when it's done now stfu", so I really appreciate your nice reply. Two weeks sounds great ... now that Doom 3 is out and Madden 2005 is out next week (not to mention my own project) I'll be really busy. On another topic just curious if anyone has Painkiller and if they think it is worth paying $40 for now that Doom 3 is out (and I have it ... oops I already said that ;) huh?).

I'm really looking forward to the next version of this to cool for school map! You have done an excellent job along the way ... I remember when this was first posted. Peace :) !

[legacy-robo422]

Doom 3 is out and I have it

LIEK OMG WTF GIMMEH TEH D00M 3!!!!1!!111111!!!!1!1eleven

[NotoriousBIC]

The d/l for beta 6 hangs at 40%.
UnrealPlayground having problems?

nm, it came through after 3 tries.

[AnubanUT2]

Does anyone have any idea why TRUEFORM is no longer working for me? When I had my 9800 Pro card and had Npatches set to TRUE and tess factor set to 4 I really saw (and in some cases negatively felt) the difference. Now I stick on my Nvidia card and I don't see anything. Is there another way to set this for Nvid cards? Thanks for any help. Didn't mean to get off topic :) .

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Trueform is a freature copywrited by ATi, it shouldnt be on nVidia video cards.... but there may be something simmilar under a different name
:cool:

[legacy-robo422]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think Nvidia cards support Trueform.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Originally posted by robo422
Don't quote me on this, but I don't think Nvidia cards support Trueform.
Sorry, but its true. Thats y its TRUEFORM ™.

Lookey Here:http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/glossary/includes/list.html#tform2
and scroll down to Trueform. Gives u the definition, and Y its not nVidia.

:p

[AnubanUT2]

Thanks for the info everyone. Just curious if anyone feel that TRUEFORM is more important than PS 3.0 support. I'm still thinking about taking this new GT card back and waiting for the X800 XT. When I did use TRUEFORM with my 9800 Pro card things got slow depending on models and the tess factor. But I still liked the look so any opinons on this. I ask on this thread because this map is one of the reasons I wanted to get a better vid card (plus Doom 3 of course ... but I still like UT2K4 better). Any opinions on if I should take this Nvid card back and wait for the X800 XT (or Pro) ... don't get me wrong there is a big performance difference (well medium really) but I'm still not overly impressed. I'm guessing that my bottleneck is my Bus speed ... I guess you just have to have a 3.x Ghz chip with at least an 800 MHz bus speed these days. Sigh ... when will this technology slow down just a bit? Peace.

[legacy-robo422]

Beta 7 released!
Changes:

-Secondary and Secondary+IonTank link setups are now Default and Default+IonTank and vice versa
-All Axon stuff is now Red Claw stuff
-Added slime to kill you if you fall off footbridge in upper Mothership
-Optimizations
-Botpathing improvements
-Smoothed terrain
-Added Goliath to each base
-Moved Super Shield and Keg o' Health pickups in each base
-Sniper towers in each base are now 50% larger
-Moved Redeemer
-Moved Double Damage
-Added Ion and Target Painters
-Added proper radar map
-Updated level preview
-Updated level description
-Other aesthetic changes

Get it here:
http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6666

[CVROY]

Sweet!!!!

Glad you are still working this puppy!

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

downloading....

Robo422, i just wanted to ask u sumthing.

If u look here:

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5440619#post5440619

u can see my plight. Would u be interested in making/ using this map, to make an assault level. I would prefere if u did that later, as this is such a great map. Just asking. I would love to play ons with puupy at the mo though.

Harsh

[legacy-ZeroHour]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ed/smileeek.gifwoahhh i love any beta of this map but i hope that final version willl come soon:up: :up:

[legacy-robo422]

u can see my plight. Would u be interested in making/ using this map, to make an assault level. I would prefere if u did that later, as this is such a great map. Just asking. I would love to play ons with puupy at the mo though.

I think I'll hold off on making an AS map until later. This is my first map, you know.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
I think I'll hold off on making an AS map until later. This is my first map, you know.

Man ... your first map? Damn, you are a really fast learner! I've haven't seen very many first time mapper come out swinging and land a KO like you did with this map :) . Thanks for continually improving this map. The final release should be pretty amazing. Just take your time ... UT2K4 will be around and be a huge FPS fav for a long time so there is no need to rush this masterpiece. A friend of mine also made a really large terrain map and I think you may like it. Both of your maps are chock full of WOWs ... the link for his map is www.third-helix.com. You've given me some real enjoyment with this map and now I'm returning the favor ... I hope you enjoy my friend Nutter's map ... ONS-NMP2-Panalesh. Peace :) .

[legacy-robo422]

Crap! Forgot to actually update the map description! So, uh, just pretend it's updated. Or something.


Man ... your first map? Damn, you are a really fast learner!

Technically, it's not my first map. It is, however, my first serious attempt at making one.


You've given me some real enjoyment with this map and now I'm returning the favor ... I hope you enjoy my friend Nutter's map ... ONS-NMP2-Panalesh.

I haven't had the time to actually play it, but I loaded it up in the editor, and there is only one thing I can say.

OMG.

[legacy-Harsh_but_Fair]

I've been playing the map and i found sum bugs/sum suggestions:

There is a turret alite in the base (abover the powercore). 'tis strange.

Sumthing wrong with collision on ramp to goliath, hellbender gets stuck if u go off the edge.

There is a gap between the powercore and the wall in the base. I would suggest that u fill this up, as tis very hard to kill a person hiding there, camping the core...

Umm, nothing else as such.

I really like the added visuals and stuff with electricity jumping around. One thing i would ask is more big black smoke ?

i have also been playing ur map at these settings:

Brightness:0.40
Gamma:0.81
Contrast:0.51

Try these settings. Though the hub looks weird and stuff, the map (all apart from a couple of nodes) looks even better. Just my opion, but the maps seems darker, and more brooding.

Harsh

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by Harsh_but_Fair
I've been playing the map and i found sum bugs/sum suggestions:

There is a turret alite in the base (abover the powercore). 'tis strange.

Sumthing wrong with collision on ramp to goliath, hellbender gets stuck if u go off the edge.

There is a gap between the powercore and the wall in the base. I would suggest that u fill this up, as tis very hard to kill a person hiding there, camping the core...

Umm, nothing else as such.

I really like the added visuals and stuff with electricity jumping around. One thing i would ask is more big black smoke ?

i have also been playing ur map at these settings:

Brightness:0.40
Gamma:0.81
Contrast:0.51

Try these settings. Though the hub looks weird and stuff, the map (all apart from a couple of nodes) looks even better. Just my opion, but the maps seems darker, and more brooding.

Harsh

I too found the Hellbender ramp bug ... is this not an issue with static meshes? But I didn't think the gap where you can take cover and camp was a bug. I thought it was so you had some kind of chance with all the autoturrets and Goliaths around. If you don't want people to camp why not use the pain camper ... but don't punish those of us who are kind of lame at ONS ;) . All kidding aside if this is not intended you should probably fix it. I was thinking that maybe some nice ambient sounds or some type of tribal music track could really add more to the feel of the map. Anyway you've done a good job with the bots and the optimization is solid. I only needed to turn of AA and AF and I could still use 1600x1200 with FULL settings. very cool indeed.

Hope that "OMG" was a positive one ... I really think you will like it once you play ... but it is HUGE. You might have to play around with your settings to get the good fps. I know Nutter used the 1100 res setting (I don't use it so I never remember what it is) with no AA or AF and he doesn't have a super system. Looks like you are two releases away from a final. A Release Candidate should come next and then you get your last chance to fix the little things (if there are any at that point) and then the Final v1. Peace :) .

[legacy-robo422]

Sumthing wrong with collision on ramp to goliath, hellbender gets stuck if u go off the edge.

I too found the Hellbender ramp bug ... is this not an issue with static meshes?

Could you post a screenshot? I've never had any problems with that.



There is a gap between the powercore and the wall in the base. I would suggest that u fill this up, as tis very hard to kill a person hiding there, camping the core...

I'll just slap a BlockingVolume back there.


i have also been playing ur map at these settings:

Brightness:0.40
Gamma:0.81
Contrast:0.51


IMO, it looks like crap like that. Maybe it's my monitor.


Hope that "OMG" was a positive one
It was.

[AnubanUT2]

Sorry I have't posted a screenshot ... I have been on Doom 3 and then out. I'll see if I can duplicate the bug ... but I really don't know how to post a screenshot on this darn site. Peace :)

[legacy-robo422]

You can upload your screenshots at www.photobucket.com.

Just played ONS-NMP2-Panalesh. The bots are obnoxious little bastards.

[AnubanUT2]

I signed up and when I get a chance I will get that to you. How do I post it on this site though?

Nutter's map now has it's own thread and thanks for giving it a go. I hope you enjoyed it. Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

Use the [ SCREENSHOT] [ /SCREENSHOT] tags (without the spaces).

For example:
I have a picture at www.website.com/picture.jpg.
I would use [ SCREENSHOT]www.website.com/picture.jpg[ /SCREENSHOT] (without the spaces).

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
Use the [ SCREENSHOT] [ /SCREENSHOT] tags (without the spaces).

For example:
I have a picture at www.website.com/picture.jpg.
I would use [ SCREENSHOT]www.website.com/picture.jpg[ /SCREENSHOT] (without the spaces).

Ohay here goes nothing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/1394e142.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/mshb3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/69290ad0.jpg

Hope this helps you out. Peace.

[legacy-robo422]

Learn to drive better. :p

Seriously, though, I don't know what I can do. The collision for those meshes is already as simple as possible.

[AnubanUT2]

Not a problem ... it's not that big of a deal to me personally ... is this even a real bug or is it a driving issue like you suggest? The map is still a blast to play! Peace and thanks for letting me know how to post screenshots.

[legacy-robo422]

I'm pretty sure it's a driving issue. The vehicle isn't going to get stuck like that unless you drive it crooked onto the ramp.

[legacy-=NS=sOuLs{Cp}]

nice looking map, they are probably driving issues, btw, i like Nutters map anuban :D

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by =NS=sOuLs{Cp}
nice looking map, they are probably driving issues, btw, i like Nutters map anuban :D

Nutter's map has it's own thread now in the full releases section (pretty close to the top) so let him know over there ... I am glad you enjoyed it ... between these two leviathanish maps there is gonna be alotta blood spilled and a lot of Wows ... I think these two should join forces and create only EPIC sized maps. Anyway I just played this map again and I watched my driving this time lol (and I still kicked those bots in the butt on a decent skill setting)! Peace :)

[legacy-robo422]

I've started adding deco to each base to break up the monotonous floor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/ISkaarjBaseDeco.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/RSkaarjBaseDeco.jpg

What do you think?

[legacy-Iceboy2003]

Originally posted by robo422
I've started adding deco to each base to break up the monotonous floor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/ISkaarjBaseDeco.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/RSkaarjBaseDeco.jpg

What do you think?

Trippily cool lookin'

[legacy-DaJMasta]

i think it is awesome, and made even better with ur great lighting skillz!

:up: :up: :up: :up:

[legacy-robo422]

Out of curiosity, how many of you have found all 3 superweapons?

[legacy-robo422]

I'm starting to think that the sky is too bland. Do you guys have any ideas as to how to spice it up a bit?

EDIT: Ok, here's a new sky that I came up with:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/MothershipNewSky.jpg

What do you think?

[legacy-SergeantDuke]

The sky looks nice, that emitter icon is a classy touch. :up:

[AnubanUT2]

It goes very well with the theme of the map. How about a giant blue star on the other side of the map? Looking forward to the next beta. Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

How about a giant blue star on the other side of the map?

Don't think it would really fit here. Maybe in the nighttime version.

Does anyone have any more comments or complaints about beta 7?

[CVROY]

Just the upper part inside the ship wherer the steam comes out (inside) make the FPS go way down. I have a GeforceFX5600 256 MB DDR2.

BTW, I still think this is the most immersive map ever!

[legacy-robo422]

How far does your FPS drop in that area?

[CVROY]

I uploaded a few screenies for you to see:eek:

http://wgs.ut2003files.com/pics/MS1.jpg

http://wgs.ut2003files.com/pics/MS2.jpg

When I am looking down the ship it runs nice, looking up ship takes a pretty big hit.

BTW all my video settings in unreal are normal, not high.

[legacy-robo422]

:eek: Holy crap. Let me look at that.

EDIT: Just looked at it. The engine is rendering around 58,869 triangles when looking up the shaft, as opposed to 38,710 when looking down the shaft. I don't see any way to fix this except by thickening the fog inside the Mothership.

[CVROY]

I've been thinking... I wouldn't worry about it too much. People will not be spending tons of time there anyway:)

Just keep working on the rest of the map. Your talents will be best used elsewhere on this one. I am not being picky like some other folks... just making an observation I thought you would like to know.

Laters!

[legacy-DaJMasta]

it was about the same in my experience, but as he said it doesnt effect gameplay much. In all, very nice work. Now when c an we expect the final???

[legacy-robo422]

You can expect the final on or around Sept. 10.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

lol i kno y! ;)

Good luck!

[legacy-robo422]

I've found that the turrets are far too easy to kill, and so I've increased their health to 500. I've also increased their respawn time to 90 seconds to compensate. Does this sound good?

I've also moved and rotated the Link Turrets at the mothership entrance and inside the mothership, since they were always facing the 'wrong way.'

In case anyone is wondering, here's the full changelist since Beta 7:

- Moved and rotated Link Turret at Mothership Entrance.
- Moved and rotated Link Turret inside Mothership.
- Increased turret health from 150 to 500.
- Increased turret respawn time from 45 to 90 seconds.
- Smoothed terrain.
- Added better skybox.
- Added additional deco to each base.
- Smoothed terrain.
- Thickened fog inside Mothership.
- Moved Redeemer.
- Moved Double Damage.
- Removed SuperShield under Mothership.
- Other stuff I probably forgot.

[legacy-warlord1209]

i have downloaded ur fab map. It rocks! Oh but the link map is all weird. i dont know whats wrong with it. The links all point toward the top left corner of my screen. But wow what a great idea!

[legacy-robo422]

I'm pretty sure that the latest patch for UT2004 (3270) fixes that.

[legacy-warlord1209]

well anyway is sooo fab. i wish i could do stuff like that. Are u doing any more 'aftermath' maps?

[Xyx]

Good map! Here's some (hopefully) good feedback to go with it:


Gameplay:

The crashed mothership is great! It's interesting how many passages the thing has. Is this the mesh from AS-Mothership?

It's very interesting seeing some different stuff on an ONS map, such as the "autodefense" turrets and link turrets. I'm thinking it might be cool if these turrets really were automated, like in Assault. That'd give defense a push and seriously alter gameplay. It'd allow for effective link turret linking and would require the attackers to be on their toes just a bit more.

I often spawn quite far from the nearest weapon locker. It takes about five seconds to reach one after spawning, which is far longer than my spawn protection lasts.

One spawn point in the base starts facing a pillar.

The bases are a bit big. Running from spawn point to weapon locker to vehicle takes a lot of time.

The map seems very Raptor-centric. Not only does there seem to be about a dozen of them altogether, they're also the most useful. There's plenty of other vehicles, but the distances between nodes make Raptors and Mantas the prime choices. Raptors also have a rather easy time assaulting the powercores. I think reducing the number of Raptors might put some focus back on the other vehicles and lead to more varied play.

The jump pads to the Raptors in the base are opposite the spawn points. Not very ergonomic. :D


Looks:

Some of the terrain looks like typical UEd terrain rather than natural terrain. It combines features of sand desert and rock canyon that don't go together. It has the shape and height variation of canyon terrain, but with sand dunes instead of cliffs. If you look at the official maps, you'll notice that none of them have that kind of terrain. Dunes don't just spring up; they're shapen by the wind, have ridges and have about the same height as surrounding dunes. Sand does not stack in angles of more than 45 degrees; such inclines require rock. Sand does not stack on clifftops; it blows about and settles in the corners.

The fog is a bit heavy... but so is the FPS.

The brown sand, brown sky and brown light are a bit too much. Something of a visible skybox would really improve this map's visual appeal.

The sun with its solar flares looks great, and might look even better if it were enlarged a bit.


Nodes:

Very interesting choice between the Leviathan and the Ion Tank. Are those two different nodes in the same place?

Most link setups promote maplock, which isn't the most interesting strategy. These setups are won by pushing straight towards your opponents' primary node. It takes only three nodes to lock the map; your own base node, one of the two left-center nodes and the opponent's base node. Comeback is virtually impossible at that point. Sending someone east to claim those four other nodes weakens the primary assault, which can cost you the match. As a result, the whole east side of the map will be neglected in serious play.

The Alternate setup seems best because it allows teams to branch out to the east without the risk of being locked down. However, the Alternate setup has Teh Levi up for grabs.

A map this size could use a few more nodes, even if they're not in the default setup. Spare nodes add enormous customizability and replay value to a map.

A problem with the node layout is that half of them lie exactly on the map's "equator". This makes it very hard to make balanced setups where more than three nodes separate the cores. Adding a few nodes somewhere halfway between the cores and the equator would open up possibilities for varying gameplay. You have some cool terrain there that's quite suited for such a purpose.

The mothership is an enormous structure that offers some extraordinary opportunities for z-axis action. Great spots for additional nodes would be the ends of the tunnels in the dish and the platform with the big green lights at the end of the central tunnel.


Bots:

Despite the considerable availability of vehicles at the base, a lot of bots still decide to walk to the first nodes.

The bots seem to ignore the Raptors and Mantas at the base.

The bots have difficulties driving the Leviathan from its parking spot.

[legacy-robo422]

Is this the mesh from AS-Mothership?
It's not the mesh, since the Mothership is multiple meshes. But yes, it is the Mothership from AS-Mothership.


I'm thinking it might be cool if these turrets really were automated, like in Assault.
They are automated. They just don't pay attention and only shoot at stuff right in front of them. Once they see you, though, you're screwed (unless you're up high in a Raptor).


I often spawn quite far from the nearest weapon locker. It takes about five seconds to reach one after spawning, which is far longer than my spawn protection lasts.
Fixed.


One spawn point in the base starts facing a pillar.

Fixed.


The map seems very Raptor-centric. Not only does there seem to be about a dozen of them altogether, they're also the most useful. There's plenty of other vehicles, but the distances between nodes make Raptors and Mantas the prime choices. Raptors also have a rather easy time assaulting the powercores. I think reducing the number of Raptors might put some focus back on the other vehicles and lead to more varied play.
But I like Raptors. YOU just want less Raptors because they're all OWNING you. :p
Seriously, though, I'll cut down on the Raptors. I'm thinking about removing all Raptors except the ones in the bases and the ones at the node inside the Mothership.


The jump pads to the Raptors in the base are opposite the spawn points. Not very ergonomic.
I've moved the jump pads.


Some of the terrain looks like typical UEd terrain rather than natural terrain. It combines features of sand desert and rock canyon that don't go together. It has the shape and height variation of canyon terrain, but with sand dunes instead of cliffs. If you look at the official maps, you'll notice that none of them have that kind of terrain. Dunes don't just spring up; they're shapen by the wind, have ridges and have about the same height as surrounding dunes. Sand does not stack in angles of more than 45 degrees; such inclines require rock. Sand does not stack on clifftops; it blows about and settles in the corners.

I'll see what I can do about that.


The brown sand, brown sky and brown light are a bit too much. Something of a visible skybox would really improve this map's visual appeal.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/MothershipNewSky.jpg


Very interesting choice between the Leviathan and the Ion Tank. Are those two different nodes in the same place?

Yes.


Most link setups promote maplock, which isn't the most interesting strategy. These setups are won by pushing straight towards your opponents' primary node. It takes only three nodes to lock the map; your own base node, one of the two left-center nodes and the opponent's base node. Comeback is virtually impossible at that point. Sending someone east to claim those four other nodes weakens the primary assault, which can cost you the match. As a result, the whole east side of the map will be neglected in serious play.

Do you have any suggestions for good link setups? I suck at making good link setups.


A map this size could use a few more nodes, even if they're not in the default setup. Spare nodes add enormous customizability and replay value to a map.
I can add a couple more nodes.


Despite the considerable availability of vehicles at the base, a lot of bots still decide to walk to the first nodes.
I would fix that, but the paths apparantly aren't showing up in the editor. Post here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=406044) if you can help.


The bots seem to ignore the Raptors and Mantas at the base.

See above.


The bots have difficulties driving the Leviathan from its parking spot.
See above.

[legacy-Two Beans]

I played the map, and so far its pretty friggin good. Nice open spaces, good variety of vehicles. I noticed that in the crashed ship sometimes the raptors will spawn in, then slide away from the spawnpoints down the ramps.

Anyhoo, after playing the map for a bit I composed some music that (at least to me) seemed to fit in with the map. If you'd like, you can include it with the final release. Just leave me some credit in the readme file if you decide to go that route. Here's the link:

Tabla Mothership (www.eyeofthewarp.com/twobeans/oggs/UT2k4music/tablamothership.ogg)

-2B
http://eyeofthewarp.com/twobeans/images/pics/2BUT2004-sigpic.png

[Xyx]

Originally posted by robo422
They are automated. They just don't pay attention and only shoot at stuff right in front of them. Once they see you, though, you're screwed (unless you're up high in a Raptor).
Ah, indeed. :D Cool! I think this is the first ONS map where these turrets play such a role.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/MothershipNewSky.jpg
Ah, yes. Nice! :) I hope the fog doesn't obscure it too much.


Originally posted by robo422
Do you have any suggestions for good link setups? I suck at making good link setups.

I can add a couple more nodes.
Here's one:

http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/UT2004/MothershipNodeSetup.jpg

The Leviathan/Ion Tank could be linked to nodes 2 and 4 at the same time (just like 3 is), to enable a good fight over it.

The orange dots mark some good spots for more nodes. The top left one is in a flat area, so it might need some junk to give it cover. The two on the dish are at the ends of the dish tunnels, where there's a small horizontal platform with four white lights. The left one is on the small platform at the top hole, which is also horizontal. These last three would be good places for Raptors or Daredevils. :D


Originally posted by robo422
the paths apparantly aren't showing up in the editor. Post here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=406044) if you can help.
Wish I could. :( Good luck with that!

[legacy-CyberManX.com]

Originally posted by Xyx
Ah, indeed. :D Cool! I think this is the first ONS map where these turrets play such a role.


Actually I think the first ONS map to make use of that turret and the ION cannon turret is ONS-DarkFolly. And yes, they do play interesting roles. Can check that map out on -=[CyberManX's Reality]=- The Ultimate Custom Map Server. It gets very interesting especially when you have a full server. =)

By the way, if you would like to see this map in action on my server just let me know. I can't wait for the final. =)

[legacy-mad minigunist]

Dude your doing a really god job keep up the good work!:cool: :up:

[legacy-robo422]

I composed some music that (at least to me) seemed to fit in with the map.
It's a good piece, but IMO, it doesn't fit the map.


I hope the fog doesn't obscure it too much.
Sadly, the fog does obscure a good portion of the sky. This is because of the fogring, which has to be up high, otherwise the Mothership looks very odd when you are far from it. The only way to fix this would be to remove the Mothership completely. Since it's the centerpiece of the map, I'm not going to do that.


Here's one:
Thanks!


The orange dots mark some good spots for more nodes.
You read my mind. That's exactly where I had been planning to put more nodes.


Wish I could. :( Good luck with that!
The only way I see to fix it would be to completely redo the pathing. Since I've already done that three times, I don't really feel like doing it again.

Also, a little problem I've noticed:
Any link setups with unused nodes that have turrets cause problems. The turrets spawn anyway, and don't belong to either team. What this basically means is that they shoot everyone. I don't see any way to fix this.

[legacy-Two Beans]

Originally posted by robo422
It's a good piece, but IMO, it doesn't fit the map.


Okay, I'll see if anyone else wants to use it instead.

[legacy-robo422]

I've finished adding the new nodes in. Here's what they look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipTopNode.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipTopSNode.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipTopNNode.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSNode.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewNNode.jpg

I've also added a new teleporter effect that is activated when you use the teleporter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipTPortEffect.jpg

Additionally, I've been messing around with some new link setups.
NOTE: These probably all suck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup3.jpg

[legacy-DaJMasta]

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!

those floaty nodes are really cool, and the teleporter effect is to die 4. It looks kinda like one of them plasma globes that u touch and get like the lightning to come to u!

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: 5 thumbs up!

[legacy-robo422]

Also, I'm not sure about putting a Goliath there in the 2nd and 3rd shots. Does anyone have any input?

[Xyx]

Looks great! Luv the floating turrets. :D

Not too fond of the vehicle load, though. That's six more Raptors and four more Goliaths! :eek: I'd say one Raptor at the base, one at either end of the dish, one at the top of the ship and maybe one at the docking area is already more than enough. Same with the Goliaths; too many of them cheapens the effect of seeing a tank roll onto the battlefield. Besides, Hellbenders and Scorpions get Daredevil awards for falling down high places. :D

[legacy-DaJMasta]

at least to me the goliath is only fitting, there wont be a big priority for getting a secondary node if you dont get alot of firepower. Besides, with a hellbender and a scorpian, there isnt much else you can put there, unless you want a themed node, like all fast vehicles or something... :D

[legacy-robo422]

What about three link setups up there? How do those look?

Just counted all the vehicles that are currently in the map. There are:

- 16 Scorpions
- 13 Mantas
- 12 Raptors
- 12 Hellbenders
- 11 Goliaths
- 11 Link Turrets
- 9 Energy Turrets
- 1 Leviathan
- 1 Ion Plasma Tank

which is a total of 86 (!!!) vehicles.
Even if you don't count the turrets and the "super-vehicles", there are still 64 vehicles. :eek:

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Holy Crap!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Thats almost scary....

Definitely not a map for 8 people ;)

[legacy-robo422]

With that many vehicles, and in an optimal situation (players are fine with going back to the base for vehicles, everyone gives others rides, etc.) this map can have up to 103 (!!!!!!) players and everyone would still have a ride.

[legacy-warlord1209]

whoa amazing map i'd download the updated version but U.P. is closed 4 maintanence

[legacy-robo422]

Here's a shot of the retextured terrain:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/MothershipNewTerrain.jpg

Some mucking around with the link setups and then I think I can release beta 8.

[Xyx]

Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup1.jpg
Very balanced! :up: You could add a cross-over between nodes 3 and 2 so paths can be cut off, or just leave it as two distinct paths.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup2.jpg
Interesting and very different from the first. Fast play! Take two nodes; attack the core. It places a very heavy responsibility on whoever grabs the Raptor right at the start, though, since they alone can get up on the dish in time. That's fine in competitive play, but on pubs you run the risk that somebody clueless grabs the Raptor first.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewMothershipNewSetup3.jpg
A bit unbalanced (meaning the first five minutes might count heavier than the rest of the match). The Levi/Ion Tank is up for grabs and very easy to defend by taking out the next node. Securing node 3 gives access four Raptors, two Goliaths and more. But hey, it's different. It might play like a blast online, but I think it's very hard on the underdog.

How 'bout some setups that do not include the super vehicle?

[legacy-robo422]

Some more setups, which are also very likely to be crap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewNoNameSetup.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewOtherSetup.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewSecSetup.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewAltSetup.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewDefSetup.jpg

Feedback on these would be appreciated.

[legacy-mad minigunist]

I just had an idea when playing why not put doors on the bases that way they look even more like forts.:D:up:

[T-Shinzon]

Take a look at ONS-CB2-Valarna. That map has some awesome terrain.

If you also take a look at Severance, you'll notice that both these maps have rock lines that follow the terrain.

[legacy-robo422]

ONS-Valarna, ONS-Severance, and my map all use the same technique for getting those rock lines on the terrain. I simply haven't put much time into that yet, so it looks like crap.

EDIT: I've got to get to bed now (it's 11:27 PM here), so I expect to be able to release tomorrow, when I get the terrain to look right.

[Xyx]

Hard to say without 1) playing the map 2) against people 3) a lot, but here's how I think it looks on paper:


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewNoNameSetup.jpg
Interesting, but reliant on the Raptor pilot. Probably won by conquering the dish, after which your position there becomes almost impossible to dislodge and you get to rule the skies with five more Raptors. I think that can be remedied by linking nodes 3 and 4, and node 2 and the one at the top of the ship (can't read the number). That'd generate some interesting minor cut-off possibilities as well.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewOtherSetup.jpg
Not bad, but probably hard to make a comeback on if you're pushed out of the center. The east side of the map could be more involved by linking the core to the eastern corner nodes, linking those to the dish outlets and detaching the super vehicle completely.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewSecSetup.jpg
Looks great!


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewAltSetup.jpg
Alright, but like number 2, once one side starts winning there's no stopping them. Might be improved by not including the four easternmost nodes. It'd be more of a ground war that way, less dependant on your team's Raptor pilot.


Originally posted by robo422
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/robo422/NewDefSetup.jpg
Nice and reasonably balanced, although the map can be locked by controlling five nodes. I think that could be remedied by linking those two open-air nodes near the docking bays to the cores as well.

[legacy-robo422]

I'm going to upload the next beta as soon as I finish this !^$#&@% radar map.

Changes since beta 7:
- Added 5 extra PowerNodes
- Redid vehicle arrangement
- Retextured terrain
- Updated level preview
- Improved skybox
- Thickened fog
- Moved and rotated Link Turret at Mothership Entrance.
- Moved and rotated Link Turret inside Mothership.
- Increased turret health from 150 to 500.
- Increased turret respawn time from 45 to 90 seconds.
- Smoothed terrain.
- Added additional deco to each base.
- Moved Redeemer.
- Moved Double Damage.
- Removed SuperShield under Mothership.
- Minor aesthetic improvements
- Other stuff I probably forgot

[legacy-DaJMasta]

and im completely sure that every change was worth it. :D

[legacy-robo422]

Stupid !^#%*!@ radar map... :mad:
I have absolutely no Photoshop skillz, so this might take awhile.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

try this, turn off all editor viewing things and maximize the perspective view. Turn off view fog. Move the camera all the way up directly above the map, take a screenshot, and resize it. :D
Adding the nodes shouldnt be nearly as hard!

[legacy-robo422]

It's resizing it where I'm having trouble. No matter where I take the shot, I have stuff on the sides that I don't need. What I'm having trouble with is trimming the right amount of stuff off.

EDIT: Ok, I've got it. It's not perfectly accurate, though. Then again, the previous one wasn't perfectly accurate, and no one complained about that. One final rebuild, and then I start uploading.

[legacy-robo422]

Beta 8 released!
Changes since Beta 7:
- Added 5 extra PowerNodes
- Redid vehicle arrangement
- Retextured terrain
- Updated level preview
- Improved skybox
- Thickened fog
- Moved and rotated Link Turret at Mothership Entrance.
- Moved and rotated Link Turret inside Mothership.
- Increased turret health from 150 to 500.
- Increased turret respawn time from 45 to 90 seconds.
- Smoothed terrain.
- Added additional deco to each base.
- Moved Redeemer.
- Moved Double Damage.
- Removed SuperShield under Mothership.
- Minor aesthetic improvements
- Added BlockingVolumes behind PowerCores
- Updated Radar Map
- Removed all old link setups
- Added 12 new link setups(Default, Default+IonTank, Secondary, Secondary+IonTank, Pentagram, Pentagram+IonTank, Two_Diamonds, Other, Other+IonTank, Alternate, Additional, Additional+IonTank)

Get it here: http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=6912

This will be the final beta unless significant problems are found.

[AnubanUT2]

Yummmy!! :D

Edited: robo422 you've got PM. It's short but necessary. Peace. :)

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Downloadeded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

[legacy-robo422]

So, has anyone found any major problems?

[AnubanUT2]

Well I just spent another 20 minutes with the map and I was really unable to get into the flow ... the map seems more sluggish ... I am using the same settings I normally use and this map seems more cpu intensive ... not just around or in the ship even. And I did find one bug that happens frequently as vehicles are spawning. I posted a pic below. It's hard to play this map with this bug unfortunately. Hopefully you can fix this. I am going to try the last beta again (or #6) and see if it's my imagination regarding performance. Peace. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/GENERAL/onsm8.jpg

[AnubanUT2]

Well I just played some more and it appears to only happen with the Manta and randomly at that, BUT you can still use it so it doesn't hamper play as I first thought. It just looks bizarre. I haven't pinned down specific sites but I have seen it at a couple of the nodes and I am on the red team. I haven't gone back and looked at the other betas ... I am going to get to it though, I just have stuff I HAVE to do.

Also the vehicles seem to spawn on regular terrain instead of a platform ... (see pics) is that the way it has been? Man I just can't remember it every seeming odd before. And also once you blow the core you are still in FP view and can still keep blasting the destroyed core. (see pic) Was that how you planned it. And it does seem just a bit slower ... I had 18 bots and it just seemed to lag a bit more than I remember ... but again I will check this.

Twelve raptors you say. Hmm but they must not be at the outside node areas? Just inside the base and the Mothership ... correct ... because I don't see too many. So you mean each side has 6 ... on a map this size? How about a couple more ... at least one at the outside spawn points? Nah ... you want this to be a final and that would maybe be too much rework ... I'll deal with the six. Were there more at one time? Anyway the sky is perfect for the theme of the map. And I do like the other visual enhancements/additions. Peace. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/Mothership/onsm83.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/Mothership/onsm82.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/AnubanUT2/Mothership/onsm81.jpg

[legacy-robo422]

the map seems more sluggish
I'm pretty sure that's related to the crappy botpathing. In Beta 7, I could add 31 bots and my framerate would be around 30 - 35. Now, though, I add 31 bots and my framerate goes down to 5 - 7 FPS. Guess I finally have a reason to redo the fugging pathing now.:sulk:


And I did find one bug that happens frequently as vehicles are spawning.
When you say 'frequently,' do you mean that it happens frequently at that specific Manta spawn? Or does it mean that it happen frequently on all vehicle spawns?

EDIT: Oh, you just posted. I'll take a look at the "manta sinking through the ground" thing.


Also the vehicles seem to spawn on regular terrain instead of a platform
Where does this occur? If you're referring to the Goliath in the first shot, then a bot drove it there. That Goliath does spawn on a little platform thingy. If you're referring to the Manta in the second shot, then that's something I have to fix. It seems to have gotten stuck inside a static mesh when it spawned and then "wiggled" its way out.


Twelve raptors you say.
There are two at each base(4), one at each eastern corner node(6), two inside the Mothership(8), one at each node in the dish(10), and two at the node at the end of the dish(12).


Were there more at one time?
There were 13 Raptors up until beta 8.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
I'm pretty sure that's related to the crappy botpathing. In Beta 7, I could add 31 bots and my framerate would be around 30 - 35. Now, though, I add 31 bots and my framerate goes down to 5 - 7 FPS. Guess I finally have a reason to redo the fugging pathing now.:sulk:


When you say 'frequently,' do you mean that it happens frequently at that specific Manta spawn? Or does it mean that it happen frequently on all vehicle spawns?

Sorry to hear you have to do more bot pathing but at least I don't feel crazy ;). I'll hold off on going back to the older versions since this unfortunately won't be the last beta. Sorry :( ... but just think how amazing the map will be when all is said and done. And hey, I did find my groove on this map afterall as evidenced by my successful Core attack :p lol ... you know I had more guys on my team this time around (Heh heh ... hey it's an onslaught y'know). Peace.

'frequently,' - well pretty much everytime it spawns at least the first time around ... don't know if it happens once the node has been destroyed and then rebuilt. I noticed it at the first three closest points (nodes). You can tell by the very first photo I posted by looking at the ONS minimap. Those were the only nodes I could get that time out. Hope this helps.

[CVROY]

Cool, I was looking for something to do tonight:)

[legacy-robo422]

you know I had more guys on my team this time around
Heh...you cheated, too.


'frequently,' - well pretty much everytime it spawns at least the first time around ... don't know if it happens once the node has been destroyed and then rebuilt. I noticed it at the first three closest points (nodes). You can tell by the very first photo I posted by looking at the ONS minimap. Those were the only nodes I could get that time out. Hope this helps.
I think I've fixed all of those.

Fortunately (for me), I won't be able to get to the pathing today. My computer has been acting up the entire day, slowing to a crawl every 10 minutes.

[Xyx]

Originally posted by AnubanUT2
Twelve raptors you say. Hmm but they must not be at the outside node areas? Just inside the base and the Mothership ... correct ... because I don't see too many. So you mean each side has 6 ... on a map this size? How about a couple more
:eek:

I personally feel that no map should have more than 3-6 Raptors total (depending on size). To each his own, I suppose. :)

[AnubanUT2]

Robo,

"There are two at each base(4), one at each eastern corner node(6), two inside the Mothership(8), one at each node in the dish(10), and two at the node at the end of the dish(12). "

Thanks for the info ... I guess is 12 is more than enough ... I mean this isn't Raptor Skies or Slate so cool. I just really like them and it seemed when I was creating a link node I could never get lucky enough to be where they spawned. Now I know so thanks.

Yeah I had more guys but is that really cheating (:p lol) ... I mean they are bad bots and it is called Onslaught so what the hell. I figure that if we are lucky enough to catch 4 guys alone then hell my 6-8 man force will make short work of them ... y'know ;)

These days I'm just playing for fun anyway ... I have no delusions about entering tourneys for money or prizes or about joining a clan. I'll leave that to Elite UT2K4 players like Xyx. Peace. :D

[legacy-robo422]

I personally feel that no map should have more than 3-6 Raptors total
Are ONS-TIM-Slate and ONS-MZ RaptorSkies exceptions to this rule? :p

[legacy-robo422]

Yeah I had more guys but is that really cheating
How do you explain having 999 flak shells, then? :p

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
How do you explain having 999 flak shells, then? :p

I was wondering when someone would notice that and take me to task. Damn I had evaded detection for so long. Rats betrayed by my own photos. Oh well it was bound to come out. Sometimes after getting killed alot I will load up on weapons (F3=loaded) or if I am just testing or if I do play Inhuman/GodLike mode.

Hey I'm getting better ... I used to use the SoulReavers mut and boost my health everytime I killed a bot and snatched up their soul. Hell I once boosted my health to over 10K playing as a jug and grabbing souls left around and the only way you could kill me was with a direct hit of a redeemer or the Singularity Gun/Cannon (remember that weapon from UT2K3). One day I'll be better than just adept and won't have to resort to such ... "methods" :p (lol)

Keep this under your hat :D

Edited: And I stopped using God Mode ages ago so c'mon don't judge me too harshly ... (Harsh but Fair I ope you are nowhere around these parts). I know I'm gonna catch hell for admiting to ever using God Mode ... oh well that life is behind me now.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

im gonna need a big hat....
but yes at least for testing purposes i use fly, ghost, and various other things, as well as playing my assault map, with no defenders, just to make sure the objectives work ;)

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by DaJMasta
im gonna need a big hat....
but yes at least for testing purposes i use fly, ghost, and various other things, as well as playing my assault map, with no defenders, just to make sure the objectives work ;)

I do the no defender stuff for testing AS map objs as well. But can I ask you serioulsy when might you need to use fly ... to keep from falling to yor death huh? duh. Forget that one ... How about Ghost ... or is that so noone can shoot me as I go around tagging them one by one. Again duh? But on the off chance I haven't guessed your motives ....

Peace. :)

[legacy-DaJMasta]

fly and ghost when i want to see something from a different angle, or im screwing around, or im too lazy to go into spectator mode, usually its a combo of the three.... :p

[legacy-compjarg]

I like this version ;)
You must be a maping god or something, the texture change realy made a VERY big difference in the atmosphere. I love the new sky.
Keep up the updates, looking forward to the final product one day after all bugs are worked out and everything, me and all my buds just cant stop playing this map, were like addicted or something.

-CJ Hard (Thought I needed a one of these ending things like Dicky B, don't know why)

[legacy-robo422]

Have you noticed any bugs? (besides the aforementioned "Manta-sinks-into-ground" or the crappy bots?)

[legacy-warlord1209]

yeah after about 10 mins of play the game crashes and the keys freeeze. It starts to goall juddery and only happens when inside the mothership.

[legacy-robo422]

I'm pretty sure that's an issue with your computer. I tested this map on a friend's very low-end computer, and the game ran very slowly and eventually crashed.

[legacy-DaJMasta]

my guess is that its an overheating problem or a windows memory leak, and the mothership has the most tris of anything so.....

[legacy-robo422]

I am convinced that properly pathing this thing is impossible. My editor starts screwing up the paths when I have too many pathnodes. The problem is, I need that many pathnodes.

EDIT: Ok, I just finally figured out how to get the editor to show all the paths. For some odd reason, deleting all my pathnodes and then undoing that causes all the paths to show up.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
I am convinced that properly pathing this thing is impossible. My editor starts screwing up the paths when I have too many pathnodes. The problem is, I need that many pathnodes.

EDIT: Ok, I just finally figured out how to get the editor to show all the paths. For some odd reason, deleting all my pathnodes and then undoing that causes all the paths to show up.

Wow! So that means us IA players especially will be getting a better, smarter version. You are amazing man. I appreciate your relentless pursuit of perfection and the long hours you have put on this baby. Damn ... we go back aways on this one. I think I joined this thread during beta2. Your efforts are very appreciated. Once this baby is complete ... man this is gonna be a toough one to beat. Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

Ok...WTF? I finally finish the botpathing, and I go to test the map. As soon as I add in some bots, UT2004 decides to crash. So I take a look at the log, and this is what I find:

Critical: APawn::CheckDetour
Critical: APawn::breadthPathTo
Critical: APawn::findPathToward
Critical: AController::FindPath
Critical: UObject::ProcessEvent
Critical: (xBot Autoplay.xBot, Function UnrealGame.Bot.RestFormation.MonitoredPawnAlert)
Critical: AController::Tick
Critical: TickAllActors
Critical: ULevel::Tick
Critical: (NetMode=0)
Critical: TickLevel
Critical: UGameEngine::Tick
Critical: Level Mothership
Critical: UpdateWorld
Critical: MainLoop
Critical: FMallocWindows::Free
Critical: FMallocWindows::Realloc
Critical: 676F4C57 0 FArray
Critical: FArray::Realloc
Critical: 0*2
Critical: FMallocWindows::Free
Exit: Executing UObject::StaticShutdownAfterError
Exit: Executing UWindowsClient::ShutdownAfterError
Log: Waiting for file streaming thread to finish...
Exit: OpenAL Audio subsystem shut down.
Localization: No localization: Window.IDDIALOG_CrashBox.IDC_CrashBox (int)
Exit: Exiting.
Log: FileManager: Reading 0 GByte 262 MByte 439 KByte 746 Bytes from HD took 99.193885 seconds (98.959885 reading, 0.234000 seeking).
Log: FileManager: 31.560862 seconds spent with misc. duties
Uninitialized: Name subsystem shut down
Uninitialized: Log file closed, 08/27/04 15:35:05

You know, this really sucks. I just spent three hours redoing the pathing, and now UT2004 decides it doesn't like it. :down::mad:
Oh, well. I'll go test it again to check whether this was a one-time occurrance. Hopefully, it is.

EDIT: Apparently, it is not a one-time occurance. Maybe I need to rebuild my paths...

[AnubanUT2]

That really bites, huh? You need the advice or some suggestions from other mappers maybe? :) Don't worry I'm a patient man so take all the time you need with this beta.

[legacy-robo422]

Rebuilding the paths seems to have done the trick, but now the bots seem especially retarded.
They are constantly fighting over nodes that neither team has a link to. You see 3 or 4 bots standing on top of the node until a more intelligent bot somewhere else establishes a link to that node. You see a blue node that red doesn't have a link to, and yet the red team is constantly trying to attack it. You see bots on the red team running over to the blue base as soon as the match starts. I think i'm going to have to redo the paths again. :(

[legacy-robo422]

Just tested the bots again today. They seem less retarded now, but there are some nodes that they never grab. They can attack it and destroy it when I build that node, but they never get it themselves.

EDIT: My method of deleting all the pathnodes and then undoing it to get the paths to show up doesn't work anymore. This is going to be a lot tougher, since I can't see any of the paths now.

[legacy-robo422]

For some reason, every time I test this map, the bots seem less and less retarded. How interesting...

[legacy-DaJMasta]

Originally posted by robo422
For some reason, every time I test this map, the bots seem less and less retarded. How interesting...

Test more!!! ;)

[Xyx]

Originally posted by robo422

Originally posted by Xyx
I personally feel that no map should have more than 3-6 Raptors total
Are ONS-TIM-Slate and ONS-MZ RaptorSkies exceptions to this rule? :p
Yes! :p All in my humble opinion, of course. Just making suggestions for you to take into account or ignore as you see fit

I suppose you could indeed turn Mothership into a Raptor-fest by making a link setup that only includes the Raptor nodes. Add to that another setup that focuses exclusively on the ground battle, and you would have two very distinct gameplay variants in a single map. :cool:

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by Xyx
Are ONS-TIM-Slate and ONS-MZ RaptorSkies exceptions to this rule? :p
Yes! :p All in my humble opinion, of course. Just making suggestions for you to take into account or ignore as you see fit

I suppose you could indeed turn Mothership into a Raptor-fest by making a link setup that only includes the Raptor nodes. Add to that another setup that focuses exclusively on the ground battle, and you would have two very distinct gameplay variants in a single map. :cool: [/QUOTE]

Xyx, my man, I just don't see how 6 raptors on each side turns this into a raptor fest. I certainly didn't see that many raptors when I was playing the map. Did you really feel that too many raptors were giving you a problem (I didn't mean that you were doing lousy or are a bad player)? I don't know ... for a map this size the current number seems appropriate. you really don't agree? That's okay if you don't, as I said in the PM I sent you ... I'm just curious. Anymore helpful strategic hints ... that especially seems to be your strength. Peace. :)

btw: You think there should be two versions of this map? Well if one version were to become a mostly Raptor map then maybe it could be added to a Raptor Lovers Community Bonus Pack ... along with Raptor Skies, Celestia (if it ever comes out of Beta as you said), Slate, and then this one. Could be a good idea but for now let's just let Robo22 worry about one thing at a time and getting this baby released is no. 1. That pathing is driving Robo crazy ... isn't it Robo? Peace. :D

Edited: Well here is my idea inspired by Xyx's post, for a Map Pack called Raptors4Life-CBP1. Now it is more than just a map pack because it includes a built in DWeather mutator (the code itself but one day way down the road maybe this could be a mutator ... that would be awesome), custom vehicles ... both MarZer and TS have modified HBs and if there are some special weapons ... well you get the point.

Content:
- Slightly modified RaptorSkies and a RS SE version
- Slightly modifief Slate and Slate SE
- Celestia
- Maybe a raptor dominated version of this map
- A new Raptor player model ... maybe a humanoid type Raptor this time around

*Slightly modified means just that ... maybe one cool thing to make it different than the current version ... but not enough changes to make it even close to an SE version. This is just to make it so that all the maps in the map pack will be never before seen maps. (except during beta of course)

It's just a thought but a lot of Raptor lovers would be really thrilled to see this Pack come to life.

Now let's get back to focusing our attention on THIS great ONS map and send Robo positive vibes so he has better luck with these damned UT2K4 bots. :) And can declare this baby done and final. But don't rush ... when it's ready it IS READY. :D

[legacy-MarZer]

Fizzy sent me a beta of Celestia on msn not long ago, and it's looking nice. I'll get up him to get it finished :D


Anuban... guess what?
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:bulb:

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by MarZer
Fizzy sent me a beta of Celestia on msn not long ago, and it's looking nice. I'll get up him to get it finished :D


Anuban... guess what?
.
.
.
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.
....
...
...
..
..
.
.

:bulb:


awww man! You my dear sir are a bum :p (as Ralph Cramden of the Honeymooners would say ;) )! Bah. So what ... you're the one that has to get up in 5 hours and deal with school! :haha:

[Xyx]

Tested beta 8 now. Terrain appearance is drastically improved and driving Hellbenders through the ship is way cool. :)

I don't like the new fog much. It's so heavy that when I get in a Raptor, 75% of my screen is just fog. I can't even admire that huge mothership anymore because the fog obscures 90% of it at all times. I understand the fog helps the skybox and FPS, but I feel it's killing the really cool atmosphere the previous version had.

Bots were really slow to get to the dish nodes. Took them a good while to get to the closest one, and I haven't seen them make their way to the top or opposite dish nodes except by teleporting in. They'll get to the ground nodes just fine, though.

Some other observations: One bot would keep bouncing its Raptor off the landing pad at node 13. It would go down, hit the pad, go up, go back down... rinse, repeat.
Two bots got stuck in the same spot. Enter the dish at the side nodes and go into the entrance until you come at the slight S-curve. In the corner directly behind the node and weapon locker is a small gap between the tunnel wall and the walkway. Players can get stuck in there too.
I fell off one of the dish side nodes (I think it was the north one), landed on some huge tube and slid down to ground level from there without taking any damage. Way cool trickjump, I thought, until I found that I was stuck in the dark spot where the tubes come together. I could move around a little, but not jump out (even with the shieldgun). There's a great big static mesh there with several tubes sticking out. It seems to have two such spots where these tubes come together.I'm not really bothered by the Raptors in the map, but I think this map offers very interesting opportunities for ground combat that won't be as apparent if half the time you can choose to fly.

I tried a setup with only the Raptor-dispensing nodes - the dish and the node halfway into the ship. That's at least 10 Raptors in total. I think it'd be good fun if/when the fog is reduced and the bots learn to fly better. I would certainly expect it to be a lot of fun online.

I'll try a mostly ground-based setup next. Driving tanks underneath the mothership is seriously cool. :cool:

I hope the botpathing works out! I bet that's the hardest part of mapping.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by Xyx
Tested beta 8 now. Terrain appearance is drastically improved and driving Hellbenders through the ship is way cool. :)

I don't like the new fog much. It's so heavy that when I get in a Raptor, 75% of my screen is just fog. I can't even admire that huge mothership anymore because the fog obscures 90% of it at all times. I understand the fog helps the skybox and FPS, but I feel it's killing the really cool atmosphere the previous version had.

Bots were really slow to get to the dish nodes. Took them a good while to get to the closest one, and I haven't seen them make their way to the top or opposite dish nodes except by teleporting in. They'll get to the ground nodes just fine, though.

Some other observations: One bot would keep bouncing its Raptor off the landing pad at node 13. It would go down, hit the pad, go up, go back down... rinse, repeat.
Two bots got stuck in the same spot. Enter the dish at the side nodes and go into the entrance until you come at the slight S-curve. In the corner directly behind the node and weapon locker is a small gap between the tunnel wall and the walkway. Players can get stuck in there too.
I fell off one of the dish side nodes (I think it was the north one), landed on some huge tube and slid down to ground level from there without taking any damage. Way cool trickjump, I thought, until I found that I was stuck in the dark spot where the tubes come together. I could move around a little, but not jump out (even with the shieldgun). There's a great big static mesh there with several tubes sticking out. It seems to have two such spots where these tubes come together.I'm not really bothered by the Raptors in the map, but I think this map offers very interesting opportunities for ground combat that won't be as apparent if half the time you can choose to fly.

I tried a setup with only the Raptor-dispensing nodes - the dish and the node halfway into the ship. That's at least 10 Raptors in total. I think it'd be good fun if/when the fog is reduced and the bots learn to fly better. I would certainly expect it to be a lot of fun online.

I'll try a mostly ground-based setup next. Driving tanks underneath the mothership is seriously cool. :cool:

I hope the botpathing works out! I bet that's the hardest part of mapping.

Good observations and I have to agree with you about the fog. That's one of the main things I couldn't put my finger on and why I think I wasn't looking so hard for a Raptor and choosing to stay on the ground a lot (that and the bots were crushing me at one point). But we need this map to be optimized as much as possible so what would you do in this case? Is there a way to have the fog and do something else that could still maintain the atmosphere of the map?

Also since we know that this version is slower for some reason perhaps when that issue is found and addressed you could lessen the fog somewhat.

How are you getting stuck though ... I've played it about 6 or 7 times and for around an hour each time and I never get stuck and I am lousy with most vehicles so I am foot and jumping a lot.
I'll even go play now and see if I can get stuck on purpose and then watch a bot match on God settings and see if they do as well.

It's not that I don't believe you ... (I don't :p lol you know I'm kidding) but I just haven't seen that and I do wanna see it ... that stuff is crazy. Good info X-Man ... Can I call you Nate? (Do you even get that? You have to kind of be into X-Men to have any idea) ... Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

I don't like the new fog much. It's so heavy that when I get in a Raptor, 75% of my screen is just fog. I can't even admire that huge mothership anymore because the fog obscures 90% of it at all times. I understand the fog helps the skybox and FPS, but I feel it's killing the really cool atmosphere the previous version had.
I've already toned down the fog, since it was pissing me off, too.


Bots were really slow to get to the dish nodes. Took them a good while to get to the closest one, and I haven't seen them make their way to the top or opposite dish nodes except by teleporting in. They'll get to the ground nodes just fine, though.

I'm still trying to figure out why the bots can't get those nodes. Right now, they can get the nodes at either side of the dish, but it takes them awhile to do that. They don't touch the one at the top at all.


One bot would keep bouncing its Raptor off the landing pad at node 13. It would go down, hit the pad, go up, go back down... rinse, repeat.
Is this when it's trying to take off or land?


Two bots got stuck in the same spot. Enter the dish at the side nodes and go into the entrance until you come at the slight S-curve. In the corner directly behind the node and weapon locker is a small gap between the tunnel wall and the walkway. Players can get stuck in there too.
I've noticed that, as well. I'm probably going to stick a blocking volume there.


I fell off one of the dish side nodes (I think it was the north one), landed on some huge tube and slid down to ground level from there without taking any damage. Way cool trickjump, I thought, until I found that I was stuck in the dark spot where the tubes come together. I could move around a little, but not jump out (even with the shieldgun). There's a great big static mesh there with several tubes sticking out. It seems to have two such spots where these tubes come together.
I think I'll stick a blocking volume there, too.


I tried a setup with only the Raptor-dispensing nodes - the dish and the node halfway into the ship. That's at least 10 Raptors in total. I think it'd be good fun if/when the fog is reduced and the bots learn to fly better. I would certainly expect it to be a lot of fun online.

I'll try a mostly ground-based setup next. Driving tanks underneath the mothership is seriously cool.
I think I'll add two more lnk setups to the next version.


I hope the botpathing works out! I bet that's the hardest part of mapping.
Botpathing, IMO, is not very hard unless your map is fugging huge (like mine).

[AnubanUT2]

Okay then I'll just wait for the next beta ... should I be keeping my eyes peeled in the next couple of hours or tomorrow. No rush just want to get this hot off the presses. Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

Probably not today. Possibly tomorrow, but don't get your hopes up.

[Xyx]

Originally posted by AnubanUT2
How are you getting stuck though
I dunno. :p I guess I'm a natural. :D

But seriously. I tried to turn around one of them scorpions on the platforms, and it got stuck on the edge of the platform with two wheels dangling over the side (courtesy of my driving skilz :D). Then I got out, and UT decided I should get out on the 100 foot altitude side. :eek: That's when I landed on those tubes and slid into the box of no return. :bulb:


Originally posted by AnubanUT2
Good info X-Man ... Can I call you Nate? (Do you even get that? You have to kind of be into X-Men to have any idea)[/B]
You lost me there, man. :p But if you want to call me Nate, I'll make an exception just for you. ;)


Originally posted by robo422
Is this when it's trying to take off or land?
Land. It was trying to start the node.

[AnubanUT2]

Nah I like X-Man better. And you just might be a mutant hmmm ... with the unique ability to see complex gaming strategies ;) . Nate Gray is also Cable in one realm and the most powerful X-person ever in another ... that's why Marvel just called him X-Man. It was actually ridiculous (and I used to be a comic book fanatic ... then came gamin!) but the name always stuck with me. Now I have found the perfect person to assume that title. Peace. And stop falling from high places :)

And Robo as I have always said take your time. I just thought today because you have been at this so furiously which is greatly appreciated. Take until next weekend if you need to ... the wait is going to be rewarded I know it. :D

[legacy-robo422]

Ok...Other than the pathing, are there any other major issues?

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
Ok...Other than the pathing, are there any other major issues?

X-man what sayest thee? :)

[legacy-robo422]

X-man, where art thou? :)

[AnubanUT2]

Robo ... I really value X's input and all but uhhh ... if you've got a build ready to go how much longer should we wait for his reply ... unless of course you have already been in contact with him off forum? I'm not pushing ... just wondering. X-Man does have good insight and it would be nice to hear him out before you compile but ... :)

[legacy-robo422]

I'm testing the bots right now, and if they aren't acting like total morons, and if I don't find any more issues, I think I'll release it.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
I'm testing the bots right now, and if they aren't acting like total morons, and if I don't find any more issues, I think I'll release it.

That is cool ... man I hope X doesn't feel left out or anything ... he'll have great input anyway so if there any holes he'll still spot them and so what ... as always I say what's the rush ... but actually I bet you want to get started on a new project and use all you've learned from this one. In fact I bet you already have some secret amazing WIP or are joining some mod team to help them churn out some FANtastic maps. When I leave here you are one person I want to keep in touch with. I will always want your quality work. Peace. :)

[legacy-robo422]

I think I have some more work to do, since the bots are doing some pretty odd things.

[AnubanUT2]

Originally posted by robo422
I think I have some more work to do, since the bots are doing some pretty odd things.

Man I can just imagine the thoughts running through your head ... stick with it buddy ... we are all in your corner. :)

[legacy-robo422]

The bots now seem reasonably intelligent, though they still do some odd things every now and then.

EDIT: After some more testing, here's what I've found. On lower skill levels (e.g. Novice), the blue team crushes the red team until the red core becomes vulnerable. At that point, both teams become total morons and nothing happens. On higher difficulties (Godlike), exactly the opposite happens. The red team crushes the blue team until the blue core becomes vulnerable. At that point, both teams again become idiots and nothing happens.

[Xyx]

X was stolen away by something called "RL", and it wasn't a rocket launcher. X has noticed no further glaring issues. ;)