Dm-Nitro 2 public beta [Archive]

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-22-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
looking good moxnix:up: :up:

though it is a little dark, that large lava pipe in the middle could do with having a brighter and more stronger light.

those lights on the walls, maybe do some fancy BSP work and cut them in, and possibly make them blue with a nice corona while your at it make them brighter.

also looks like you've got a skybox, but its to dark to see properly, get a nice sunlight actor in there with moonlight.

maybe also some different colour lighting as most of the lighting is orange.

i'ii d/l and give it a try and leave you more feedback

nice work so far:up:

MsM

Too dark or too bright depends a lot on your settings, but I'll keep your comment in mind. If a lot of others say the same I'll brighten it a bit. I use default in game brightness/contrast/gama settings to minimize this problem as much as possible, but that doesn't take system video settings or hardware differences into account.

The light around the molten metal stream in the center is quite bright as is and doesn't look very good at all if it's any brighter than that.

The light fixtures on the walls were inset at one time, I removed the insets because it both looks better (IMO) and performs better on older cpus (my old A1800+ for instance) this way.

Those lights on the walls are blue, albiet with low saturation. What most would call blue/white light. Besides blue and orange lights, there are yellow (molten metal streams and furnaces) and green lights (slime pits, link room floor and flak room) too.

Every light doesn't need a corona. The orange ones (mostly) have coronas and the blue/white ones don't. I am considering removing some of the existing coronas and maybe adding some new ones.

Actually most of the lighting is blue. Including the sunlight actor (simulating moonlight) in the skybox. ;)

legacy-^ngelus

06-22-2004, 01:11 PM

yup maybe a little bit brigther seems not to care .. but then again it also depens on your own settings.
Also i like the map FPS based .. very good ... last time i test hmm before this beta was ut i had 85 fps all the time with ultra high :)
I dont get this on deck17 :mad:
So if the littlbit lighting has nothing to do with the preformens, i would agree

But it's a great map and like i told ya before :heart: the amp spot is SO nice :up:

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-22-2004, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
But it's a great map and like i told ya before :heart: the amp spot is SO nice :up:

Thanks! Even though Nitro was one of my very favourite UT maps I allways thought powerup placement (amp in particular) wasn't very well balanced. I think the new amp location works a lot better.

Maybe there are too many health packs and vials now, especially since I replaced the old supershield with a keg (as suggested by an early alpha tester). I'll probably remove the vials under the keg and I might remove a few health packs in the end too, but I'd like to get some feedback on that first.

BTW, for those who haven't figured it out amp is reachable by walldodge (from top on link side), wallshielddodge (from snipe) and by shield jump from below. Keg is reachable by liftjumpwalldodge off the lift and by shieldjump from below. On higher bot settings (adept and up) bots will get them too.

Frogger

06-22-2004, 02:00 PM

my personal feeling is that powerups in any map should be reachable by double-dodge jump or less....90% of players (including myself) can't consistently make a walldodge (from top on link side), wallshielddodge (from snipe) or liftwalldodge....this gives an even bigger advantage to the already more skilled players (IMO)

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-22-2004, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by frogger187
my personal feeling is that powerups in any map should be reachable by double-dodge jump or less....90% of players (including myself) can't consistently make a walldodge (from top on link side), wallshielddodge (from snipe) or liftwalldodge....this gives an even bigger advantage to the already more skilled players (IMO)

Not really.

I made the trick jumps to powerups difficult to perform under pressure. In fact for most players (including myself) they're not exactly easy jumps even with no pressure. AFAIC, anyone who can make those trick jumps consistantly while under pressure, is willing to take the risk of making himself such an easily predicted target and gets away with it, deserves to get the powerups.

The shieldjumps are much easier to make, far less risky to use and anyone should be able to perform them reliably with a bit of practice.

legacy-Yournan2000

06-22-2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
Too dark or too bright depends a lot on your settings, but I'll keep your comment in mind. If a lot of others say the same I'll brighten it a bit. I use default in game brightness/contrast/gama settings to minimize this problem as much as possible, but that doesn't take system video settings or hardware differences into account.

The light around the molten metal stream in the center is quite bright as is and doesn't look very good at all if it's any brighter than that.

The light fixtures on the walls were inset at one time, I removed the insets because it both looks better (IMO) and performs better on older cpus (my old A1800+ for instance) this way.

Those lights on the walls are blue, albiet with low saturation. What most would call blue/white light. Besides blue and orange lights, there are yellow (molten metal streams and furnaces) and green lights (slime pits, link room floor and flak room) too.

Every light doesn't need a corona. The orange ones (mostly) have coronas and the blue/white ones don't. I am considering removing some of the existing coronas and maybe adding some new ones.

Actually most of the lighting is blue. Including the sunlight actor (simulating moonlight) in the skybox. ;)

for the molten metal pipe maybe use small lights wiht high brightness and low radius and low saturation around the pipe to give it a hot glow, then around the pipe use the lighting what your using now? personally i don't feel that pipe is "hot" give a more glow to it and it should be ok, though this is from the screens and sometimes there difficult to tell.

the insets shouldn't really effect a lot on your CPU, a smal lamount of BSP cut in wouldn't do that much, i think its in Alpu2 and maybe DM-Slam they do this and its works a treat, maybe give it another go asee how it goes?:confused: . As for the lighting colours maybe make that blue sharper so it cna be seen looks more white than blue, and seems there's only one screen which show orange and blue/white how can i know theres green and yellow in there:sour:?

Every light doesn't need a corona

i didn't even mention coronas, are you trying to imply something?:weird:

beef that sunlight actor up with a little more saturation, maybe try using lightmaps of 4 or 6 and see what difference it makes.

i'm downloading now so i'ii give it a go and give you more feedback later.

MsM

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-22-2004, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
i didn't even mention coronas, are you trying to imply something?:weird:

i'm downloading now so i'ii give it a go and give you more feedback later.
MsM

You mentioned putting coronas on the blue/white lights.

Please do download it, you'll find a lot of the stuff you suggested has been there all along. ;)

For example, nearly the entire map uses lightmaps of 16 or less, except unlit or unseen surfaces. In fact a lot of surfaces have a lightmap of 4.

legacy-drakiR

06-22-2004, 02:55 PM

This is a very nice map. It had really great fps and flow. =)

Post it at esreality if you want feedback on weaponplacement and general competitive play, cause I can see this being played a lot.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-22-2004, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by drakiR
This is a very nice map. It had really great fps and flow. =)

Post it at esreality if you want feedback on weaponplacement and general competitive play, cause I can see this being played a lot.

I just might do that.

legacy-Nosnos

06-22-2004, 03:51 PM

Please please please please replace the sniper with a lightning gun ^^

And I have to agree about the powerups being hard to reach (keg and DD). Everyone should be able to reach powerups without using trickjumps but you should at the same time make the easier way slower so that you can be rewarded for taking a chance with the harder route... imo :)

legacy-Yournan2000

06-22-2004, 04:19 PM

ok mate, downloaded your map and heres the feedback

the lights on this screen are way to bright on the wall, lower the radius and use less saturation to make them stronger and lower the radius, maybe a corona will be good in these ground lights.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAChAiAXznXeGSDd0!gb57G7UzfoJx!YnqIk9OSSHwWDmc9fb B5x1eYgeUvh7brSJVYkvxeKLB55nAHsmPJEznEqx!wSPy*hcTj 1SrSmaNwMIdZNkUmvCQ/Shot00099.jpg?dc=4675477557372072698

its naked! this wall is totally blank. add some pipes in the wall and cover them up with some grill and put some strong but low radius lighting behind it.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAChAg8XZXHeGSDd0!gb57eQ*lavEoKxqpp25cY6ArLlw8nc9 UM7dn2H55yD44*80ISZ9A0WXBwMEnBvBqwSB*g0V0086X*rLnX *go84o!dTFUZxn7Nvhg/Shot00100.jpg?dc=4675477557393547534

looks very newbie mapper-ish around here. a simple curved wall with pipe mesh just dropped there. make this more interesting, add again a small light strong brightness and saturation and cover it up with some cables and add some mesh in front of it.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQByAEAXG4HeGSDd0!gb5!tai6s9QdaSLDePXAwICFGQIWW54 jr5P4dUxdDqvqG6vZd2*T1m!oWZeu232NzjgGcWQPSgGCD!zNc OOLxlLz84Jm9WfnfzFA/Shot001010.jpg?dc=4675477557416781717

newbie mapper syndrome again, blank walls and ceiling. spice the ceiling up by making a cut and raise it, in here add some cables and pipes. in the corners add some pipes and supports.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQCJAkEXXoHeGSDd0!gb54Z2Yg7XtgaNc*amm4q4vQ1dJ5qUT jCOBzChOGz5nuQoCsd276!qxW5XN77LrheCYAjqk211lZDIHkf og1FPVr*pp7MO8LGKGA/Shot001020.jpg?dc=4675477557440494708

again newbie mapping syndrome, ceiling needs to be better instead of just flat and you lights try adding some spotlight actors and a light by the light meshs with a high brightness and low radius and low saturation, this makes the light look like its glowing. walls look boring again, simple meshs jsut easily duplicated and lined up. give them more space and put a support girder in between them and cables hanging down.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAD!AhIXK3LeGSDd0!gb5z5xsScyWYUnJpqd8P1AYYCadKkqY O5sD*yFTU2cfzEDIHDHvU0bKTILd9*nx6qCc!JOiS5wbcVOMzw ter!C2id26!D1qeSNKg/Shot00103.jpg?dc=4675477557466371091

generally the map played well and had a good layout. though the map had a "half finished" feeling. some areas were fine and others were just lousy, if your're gonna do a beta you may as well finish it all. Some nice terrain in there again and emitters coming though the vents, the water texture i'm not fond of its moving too fast. also some of your textures weren't aligned correctly, especially the metal floor that needs sorting out. whack in some more sounds as well.

hope that helps.

MsM

legacy-Yournan2000

06-22-2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
You mentioned putting coronas on the blue/white lights.

Please do download it, you'll find a lot of the stuff you suggested has been there all along. ;)

For example, nearly the entire map uses lightmaps of 16 or less, except unlit or unseen surfaces. In fact a lot of surfaces have a lightmap of 4.

ahh so did......................

i have downloaded it as you can see above........

thought they was using a llightmap of 4.

MsM

legacy-^ngelus

06-22-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
ok mate, downloaded your map and heres the feedback

the lights on this screen are way to bright on the wall, lower the radius and use less saturation to make them stronger and lower the radius, maybe a corona will be good in these ground lights.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAChAiAXznXeGSDd0!gb57G7UzfoJx!YnqIk9OSSHwWDmc9fb B5x1eYgeUvh7brSJVYkvxeKLB55nAHsmPJEznEqx!wSPy*hcTj 1SrSmaNwMIdZNkUmvCQ/Shot00099.jpg?dc=4675477557372072698

its naked! this wall is totally blank. add some pipes in the wall and cover them up with some grill and put some strong but low radius lighting behind it.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAChAg8XZXHeGSDd0!gb57eQ*lavEoKxqpp25cY6ArLlw8nc9 UM7dn2H55yD44*80ISZ9A0WXBwMEnBvBqwSB*g0V0086X*rLnX *go84o!dTFUZxn7Nvhg/Shot00100.jpg?dc=4675477557393547534

looks very newbie mapper-ish around here. a simple curved wall with pipe mesh just dropped there. make this more interesting, add again a small light strong brightness and saturation and cover it up with some cables and add some mesh in front of it.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQByAEAXG4HeGSDd0!gb5!tai6s9QdaSLDePXAwICFGQIWW54 jr5P4dUxdDqvqG6vZd2*T1m!oWZeu232NzjgGcWQPSgGCD!zNc OOLxlLz84Jm9WfnfzFA/Shot001010.jpg?dc=4675477557416781717
newbie mapper syndrome again, blank walls and ceiling. spice the ceiling up by making a cut and raise it, in here add some cables and pipes. in the corners add some pipes and supports.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQCJAkEXXoHeGSDd0!gb54Z2Yg7XtgaNc*amm4q4vQ1dJ5qUT jCOBzChOGz5nuQoCsd276!qxW5XN77LrheCYAjqk211lZDIHkf og1FPVr*pp7MO8LGKGA/Shot001020.jpg?dc=4675477557440494708

again newbie mapping syndrome, ceiling needs to be better instead of just flat and you lights try adding some spotlight actors and a light by the light meshs with a high brightness and low radius and low saturation, this makes the light look like its glowing. walls look boring again, simple meshs jsut easily duplicated and lined up. give them more space and put a support girder in between them and cables hanging down.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAD!AhIXK3LeGSDd0!gb5z5xsScyWYUnJpqd8P1AYYCadKkqY O5sD*yFTU2cfzEDIHDHvU0bKTILd9*nx6qCc!JOiS5wbcVOMzw ter!C2id26!D1qeSNKg/Shot00103.jpg?dc=4675477557466371091

generally the map played well and had a good layout. though the map had a "half finished" feeling. some areas were fine and others were just lousy, if your're gonna do a beta you may as well finish it all. Some nice terrain in there again and emitters coming though the vents, the water texture i'm not fond of its moving too fast. also some of your textures weren't aligned correctly, especially the metal floor that needs sorting out. whack in some more sounds as well.

hope that helps.

MsM

Ok seriously .. newbie? walls?.. So u like to have pipes at the freaking walls?? ok ok it looks nicer but is not ut2004 all about gameplay?
i really hate a map with alot of things at the walls that can/will hold you up when ur dodge away :(
i think this map is perfect and it's all about Team Gameplay, but the way u talk about it looks like ur the newbie here mate :mad:

Ever played nitro on UT99? if u did pls take another close look at it.
Really mate this map ownz and will be played alot, Nice beta :) now get the full version out

Off Quote:
Hmm about this beta i must say the slime is better then in -39 (at the rocket)
but what really bothers me is u removed that second hall :) at the SB (there was a mini) i though it was a great idea but somehow u deleted it :cry:

ow 1 feedback: the RL has not much ammo arounf the map .. i think it needs somewhere nearby an extra ammo pack :eek:
GL and keep it running mate, great map :up:

legacy-[FOE]VioL8oR

06-22-2004, 05:54 PM

Just love the trickjumping on this map, imo it should absolutely not be removed.

PLZ PLZ replace sniper with LG, sniper is so boring :-/

Overall, its a realy sweet map, hope it replaces some ****ty 4on4-map like goliath or osiris2 that we sadly have to play in tourneys now adays :-)

edit: Realy liked that the map lacked all the stupid static meshes and plottery walls with all kinds of stuff, keep it clean for smoother gameplay :-)

legacy-Super_Moose

06-23-2004, 10:49 AM

There are a lot of places in the map that could use some blocking volume lovin'.
Places like these:
http://www.apam88.dsl.pipex.com/files/nitro1.jpg
http://www.apam88.dsl.pipex.com/files/nitro2.jpg
http://www.apam88.dsl.pipex.com/files/nitro3.jpg

It's a great map though.
Definitely a keeper once it's done. :up:

Originally posted by Yournan2000
newbie mapper syndrome
:rolleyes:

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-24-2004, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
but what really bothers me is u removed that second hall :) at the SB (there was a mini) i though it was a great idea but somehow u deleted it :cry:

After a while I realized the bots hardly ever used it and neither did I... It really didn't improve flow or gameplay so I removed it. Thinking maybe I'll put a Rankin style vent passage there instead. Easily accessable from Shield side but requiring a trick move to enter from the other end.

Frogger

06-24-2004, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
... but requiring a trick move to enter from the other end.

again i'll voice a disagreement...obviously up to you..but i really see these as making the map less and less attractive to the casual gamer... if you make elements of the map only accessible to certain players it really makes it less fun IMO. And the flow suffers as well i feel if you have to try 3-4 times to try to get the keg or jump in a vent...why not just make it easier?..

look at compressed or Grendel...while they can't be called perfect..they are widley accepted and do have these elements..but they are accessible with much simpler moves...lift jumps and double jumps/dodge jumps...if you are trying to make a competitive/higher skilled players only map I can see these working..but for the masses i see these as detracting from an otherwise great map.. we have played this map 5-6 times now on my server and not once have I seen anyone get these items.

just my $.02

legacy-Super_Moose

06-24-2004, 05:56 AM

Try bio jumping.
It's much easier than using the SG. :up:
You take less damage too.

legacy-Yournan2000

06-24-2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
Ok seriously .. newbie? walls?.. So u like to have pipes at the freaking walls?? ok ok it looks nicer but is not ut2004 all about gameplay?
i really hate a map with alot of things at the walls that can/will hold you up when ur dodge away :(
i think this map is perfect and it's all about Team Gameplay, but the way u talk about it looks like ur the newbie here mate :mad:

Ever played nitro on UT99? if u did pls take another close look at it.

Yes newbie walls, plain boring flat textured walls. Yes i'd rather have pipes or some other form of static meshs on the walls, thats why meshs are included in ut2k4 so they can be used, if you don't like meshs then i suggest playing ut and not ut2k4.

Yes ut2k4 is about gameplay, but you need to balance them both out having meshs which are place suitable won't ruin gameplay, what would you prefer a crap looking map but ace gameplay or a really beauty of a map with crap gameplay? answer for me is non, i'd rather have a good looking map with good gameplay you need to place them out and having pipes out the "freaking" walls make things look better.

No i didn't play nitro in ut, but thats like comparing DM-Deck16 of ut with DM-Deck17 with ut2k4. Different styles for two different games mate.

BTW- Hows this map coming on MoxNix? playing this was a really blast, you had any thought on my feedback?

MsM

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-24-2004, 01:34 PM

I won't be turning this into a static mesh filled nightmare. I'm still adding details here and there, however I will not add more meshes simply for the sake of adding more meshes... Particularly not if they impede movement, hurt visibility or have a significant negative impact on performance.

At this point I'm mostly concerned with gameplay considerations. Layout, flow, item placement, performance, collision problems and the like. Once the gameplay is finalized I'll finish working on the details.

Powerup placement was very carefully considered based on an awful lot of experience playing the UT version (including TDM at the highest levels). It's extremely unlikely I'll make any changes to powerup placement now, especially not to make amp or keg easier to get too and in particular not the amp. Powerups should have a risk associated with them and the risk should be proportional to the reward with greater risks being associated with greater rewards.

Trick jumps are part of the game. A powerup that can't be reached without a trick jump simply encourages lesser players to learn the trick jumps and become better players. Besides it's not like grabbing either amp or keg is a cakewalk for skilled players, dodges to both require nearly perfect timing, plus they leave you very exposed and extremely predictable. Shield jumps to amp and keg are much easier and less risky with the downside of doing some self damage.

legacy-^ngelus

06-24-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
Yes newbie walls, plain boring flat textured walls. Yes i'd rather have pipes or some other form of static meshs on the walls, thats why meshs are included in ut2k4 so they can be used, if you don't like meshs then i suggest playing ut and not ut2k4.

Yes ut2k4 is about gameplay, but you need to balance them both out having meshs which are place suitable won't ruin gameplay, what would you prefer a crap looking map but ace gameplay or a really beauty of a map with crap gameplay? answer for me is non, i'd rather have a good looking map with good gameplay you need to place them out and having pipes out the "freaking" walls make things look better.

No i didn't play nitro in ut, but thats like comparing DM-Deck16 of ut with DM-Deck17 with ut2k4. Different styles for two different games mate.

BTW- Hows this map coming on MoxNix? playing this was a really blast, you had any thought on my feedback?

MsM

Did you know that alot of static meshes are deleted and not alot are used in UT2k4?
did u know why ut2003 was so sucky?, because of guys like you .. about all those stuff we dont need or want?

No i played UT99 for 5 years .. i prefer something new and yes UT2k4 is cool and i like alot of maps :)
deck16 and deck17 hmm i see alot of things that are the same ..
Yes people still spam at elevators with rocket .. yes people still camp top .. YES people still use redremer camps :)
sounds almost like deck16 now does it? (i agree they are diffrend but still the same things are happening in the same way, It still haves the old deck feeling)
Now turning this great nitro][ in same static mesh ****, then i'm wondering if it is ut2003 or ut2004 because really DO u know the diffrends between this 2 games? (that was 1 of the bad things in ut2003)

statment:
i like the gameplay . i do not prefer static meshes (IF IT WILL BE TO MUCH)
Why should i play another game because of that .. it's not all about Static meshes .. MAN how many times do i have to typ that stupid word...

UT2004 is with static meshes not Static meshes with UT2004 :noob:

legacy-Yournan2000

06-24-2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
Did you know that alot of static meshes are deleted and not alot are used in UT2k4?
did u know why ut2003 was so sucky?, because of guys like you .. about all those stuff we dont need or want?

No i played UT99 for 5 years .. i prefer something new and yes UT2k4 is cool and i like alot of maps :)
deck16 and deck17 hmm i see alot of things that are the same ..
Yes people still spam at elevators with rocket .. yes people still camp top .. YES people still use redremer camps :)
sounds almost like deck16 now does it? (i agree they are diffrend but still the same things are happening in the same way, It still haves the old deck feeling)
Now turning this great nitro][ in same static mesh ****, then i'm wondering if it is ut2003 or ut2004 because really DO u know the diffrends between this 2 games? (that was 1 of the bad things in ut2003)

statment:
i like the gameplay . i do not prefer static meshes (IF IT WILL BE TO MUCH)
Why should i play another game because of that .. it's not all about Static meshes .. MAN how many times do i have to typ that stupid word...

UT2004 is with static meshes not Static meshes with UT2004 :noob:

right then,

of course deck16 and deck17 play the same, because its the same layout. last time i remember we was talking about static meshs.

because of guys like me, right:weird: :confused: . When putting pies into a wall like that and place a blocking volume no one can get caught on it, as a. these a blocking volmue around it b. its stuck in the wall and out the way.

and you've played ut99 for 5 years, whoopie doo lets give you a f*cking medal.

and of course i know the difference between ut2k3 and ut2k4, question is do you????????

MsM

musilowski

06-24-2004, 02:48 PM

==============================================
And you've played UT99 for 5 years, whoopie doo let's give you a f*cking medal.
==============================================

:haha:

legacy-Yournan2000

06-24-2004, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
I won't be turning this into a static mesh filled nightmare. I'm still adding details here and there, however I will not add more meshes simply for the sake of adding more meshes... Particularly not if they impede movement, hurt visibility or have a significant negative impact on performance.

You don't have to, check out DM-Rankin its got enough meshs there not in the way and tucked nicely into the walls.

this adds detail but also the meshs are out of the players way so the player won't get caught up on them.

if you just add some pipes and cables your'll be fine, trust me:up: .

As for performance use the right amount of antiportals not like your malevolence re-make and use cull distances and your'll be fine, also remove collsion from meshs too far away from the player and add blocking volumes around the more bigger and complex meshs that way there will be no collison to calculate which makes it easier on the system and blocking volumes and no problem to render, apart from it is a type of BSP.

MsM

legacy-anarkist

06-24-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
Did you know that alot of static meshes are deleted and not alot are used in UT2k4?
did u know why ut2003 was so sucky?, because of guys like you .. about all those stuff we dont need or want?

No i played UT99 for 5 years .. i prefer something new and yes UT2k4 is cool and i like alot of maps :)
deck16 and deck17 hmm i see alot of things that are the same ..
Yes people still spam at elevators with rocket .. yes people still camp top .. YES people still use redremer camps :)
sounds almost like deck16 now does it? (i agree they are diffrend but still the same things are happening in the same way, It still haves the old deck feeling)
Now turning this great nitro][ in same static mesh ****, then i'm wondering if it is ut2003 or ut2004 because really DO u know the diffrends between this 2 games? (that was 1 of the bad things in ut2003)

statment:
i like the gameplay . i do not prefer static meshes (IF IT WILL BE TO MUCH)
Why should i play another game because of that .. it's not all about Static meshes .. MAN how many times do i have to typ that stupid word...

UT2004 is with static meshes not Static meshes with UT2004 :noob:

Fair points, but I think you are taking the mesh hate too far.

Fine, he has made a map with VERY minimal mesh use, but surely he should at least volume then with non snagging volumes or it takes away the whole point of having a "minimalist" feel anyway. I use that term in quotations because I don't feel it to be a reasonably excuse for making a map that looks like a BSP exercise texture job.

If meshes are used correctly they can greatly enhance a map. As long as they were out of gameplay, in view but not doing anything extra that would be ok.

Now let me say I'm not specifically referring to Nitro with this, don't get me wrong (though I do feel it could use just a little more visual flare in out of reach areas), eyecandy has the added advantage of adding areas of visual differention, helping people who are new to the map find their way around, and also making it a lot less boring for those playing it.

legacy-^ngelus

06-24-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Yournan2000

and you've played ut99 for 5 years, whoopie doo lets give you a f*cking medal.

and of course i know the difference between ut2k3 and ut2k4, question is do you????????

MsM

OMG u ****ing flamor, like i ever ment it in that way.. but u probly knew that.. flaming was just the onlything u could do.

yes i know the diffrends between ut2003/ut2004 .. why else have i skipped ut2003 in the first place? ow sorry did not told ya that .. can i get my "f*cking medal" back?
Grow up..

legacy-Yournan2000

06-24-2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by ^ngelus
OMG u ****ing flamor, like i ever ment it in that way.. but u probly knew that.. flaming was just the onlything u could do.

yes i know the diffrends between ut2003/ut2004 .. why else have i skipped ut2003 in the first place? ow sorry did not told ya that .. can i get my "f*cking medal" back?
Grow up..

ok mr "i hate meshs".

And as for flaming check this out:-

did u know why ut2003 was so sucky?, because of guys like you ..

so you don't start nothing, there won't be nothing. And i don't really wanna know you life history with ut99 either:weird: .

Why don't you try reading my original post again and try and understand what i mean, cut a hole into BSP add meshs remove collison and add blocking volume= detail using BSP and meshs out of the way of the player and high FPS, hence why i said check DM-Rankin for, Hourences has done a great job using meshs with them been stuck in the walls and not in the players way.

How could you know the "diffrends" between ut2k4 and ut23, when you skipped ut2k3?????

As for growing up i think you should do some of that, contribute something useful ot this thread instead of saying you don't like meshs, you've told us you don't like meshs we've heard you now go to Quake 3 or something, they don't use meshs you might like it then;) .

MsM

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-24-2004, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by anarkist
Fair points, but I think you are taking the mesh hate too far.

Fine, he has made a map with VERY minimal mesh use, but surely he should at least volume then with non snagging volumes or it takes away the whole point of having a "minimalist" feel anyway. I use that term in quotations because I don't feel it to be a reasonably excuse for making a map that looks like a BSP exercise texture job.

If meshes are used correctly they can greatly enhance a map. As long as they were out of gameplay, in view but not doing anything extra that would be ok.

Now let me say I'm not specifically referring to Nitro with this, don't get me wrong (though I do feel it could use just a little more visual flare in out of reach areas), eyecandy has the added advantage of adding areas of visual differention, helping people who are new to the map find their way around, and also making it a lot less boring for those playing it.

I have used blocking volumes where appropriate! And not used them where they are not appropriate. Geez I wish people would stop making uninformed comments.

It's not finished, it's a beta and as I stated before I am still adding details.

Originally posted by Yournan2000
You don't have to, check out DM-Rankin its got enough meshs there not in the way and tucked nicely into the walls.

this adds detail but also the meshs are out of the players way so the player won't get caught up on them.

if you just add some pipes and cables your'll be fine, trust me:up: .

As for performance use the right amount of antiportals not like your malevolence re-make and use cull distances and your'll be fine, also remove collsion from meshs too far away from the player and add blocking volumes around the more bigger and complex meshs that way there will be no collison to calculate which makes it easier on the system and blocking volumes and no problem to render, apart from it is a type of BSP.

MsM

Continually suggesting I do things that have been in there all along shows just exactly who the real "newbie mapper" is. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would have noticed that I have used blocking volumes and turned off collision on meshes... WHERE APPROPRIATE

"the right amount of antiportals" in Malev?! Funny, everyone tells me my version of Malev not only performs far better than your own Malev caricacture, it looks and plays better too.

Go read some mapping tutorials or something and stop confusing things.

legacy-CTFX1

06-24-2004, 09:10 PM

hey guys no flaming. mox nix, I think this map has alot of potential, i think its kind of funny tho, cuz the dd can only be given to the guy who's getting the most kills and gets adren first.
but eh, I like the map but it does need some work mostly in the visual department, I like how bare you've kept it so far, we're not saying make it a static mesh nightmare, but make it prettier, do more trim work, whatever is necesary, its looking great so far. I'd like to help with feedback to make it a beautiful map.

legacy-Ebolt

06-25-2004, 04:55 AM

Hey there...

I designed the original DM-Nitro and I am quite flattered that people are making ports of it! It's been like 6 years...

Now, the screenshots do look a bit bland, especially the lighting. I do realise the original only had like 180 polys per frame too, but if you're converting it to UT2K4, you might as well add loads more detail :)

But still, just wanted to say I am quite amazed people still remember Nitro! Keep it up and I look forward to seeing the final version!

-Eric "Ebolt" Boltjes

legacy-Mirodaso

06-25-2004, 05:00 AM

'Should really ask permission of the original author when converting a map :)
Not that the original author cares in this case but still, it's about the gesture.

There is too much black around and a lot of BSP brushes feel badly placed and are too simple.

I also wouldn't have such a big mouth. People are giving you valuable points but it seems to me you can't handle those justified critics very well (as usual) and always start flaming and acting arrogant/messed up to save yourself and your BSP copy-paste maps.

legacy-Super_Moose

06-25-2004, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
and you've played ut99 for 5 years, whoopie doo lets give you a f*cking medal.
That's not very MsM of you. :sour:
I like. :D:up:

Originally posted by Mirodaso
your BSP copy-paste maps.
LoL
GG Mr Clueless. :up:

Originally posted by CTFX1
the dd can only be given to the guy who's getting the most kills and gets adren first.
Whuh?
Or anyone? :confused:

legacy-Yournan2000

06-25-2004, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
Continually suggesting I do things that have been in there all along shows just exactly who the real "newbie mapper" is. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would have noticed that I have used blocking volumes and turned off collision on meshes... WHERE APPROPRIATE

"the right amount of antiportals" in Malev?! Funny, everyone tells me my version of Malev not only performs far better than your own Malev caricacture, it looks and plays better too.

Go read some mapping tutorials or something and stop confusing things.

1st MoxNix's i'm only offering my feedback to you, like you asked and like you asked me to download it so don't bite that hand that feeds you.

As things that have already been there, i might have known there was blocking volumes if i had opened it in the editor:confused: as i can't check that you have removed the collison options while getting my ass fragged my a bot can i?

as for anitportals i'm jsut saying you used a few too many in maley thats all, nothing else.

Funny, everyone tells me my version of Malev not only performs far better than your own Malev caricacture, it looks and plays better too.

here we go again :weird: :confused: , moxnix the great mapper has created the greatest malevolence re-make ever and everyone on god's green earth keeps telling you how better it is than my verson, even though theres about 20 other malevolence re-makes which they fail to mention and that mine was my 1st map created over 2years ago:weird: .

i think its a shame i can't leave you feedback and you starting flaming me in return for using my time to download your map, take screens and upload them and then post feedback here.

All i'm saying is add some more details and tuck the meshs in and your'll be fine, tweak the lighting a bit and add some trim and your a winner, shame thats not sinking in.

BTW- Every who has posted after me agrees about the blandness and the map needs detail.

Also you and ^ngelus sound the same guy, same aggressive so called bullsh!t.

MsM

legacy-Yournan2000

06-25-2004, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Super_Moose
That's not very MsM of you. :sour:
I like. :D:up:

You've got to defend your self against these "know-it-all" trolls Mossey my friend, mind you i have been reading someones posts and learning from the best *hint hint.

MsM

legacy-Yournan2000

06-25-2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Mirodaso
People are giving you valuable points but it seems to me you can't handle those justified critics very well (as usual) and always start flaming and acting arrogant/messed up to save yourself and your BSP copy-paste maps.

Aye that Mirodaso.

Shame someone can't leave feedback atfer they've took the time to d/l the map and test it for them.

MsM

legacy-^ngelus

06-25-2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
ok mr "i hate meshs".

And as for flaming check this out:-

so you don't start nothing, there won't be nothing. And i don't really wanna know you life history with ut99 either:weird: .

Why don't you try reading my original post again and try and understand what i mean, cut a hole into BSP add meshs remove collison and add blocking volume= detail using BSP and meshs out of the way of the player and high FPS, hence why i said check DM-Rankin for, Hourences has done a great job using meshs with them been stuck in the walls and not in the players way.

How could you know the "diffrends" between ut2k4 and ut23, when you skipped ut2k3?????

As for growing up i think you should do some of that, contribute something useful ot this thread instead of saying you don't like meshs, you've told us you don't like meshs we've heard you now go to Quake 3 or something, they don't use meshs you might like it then;) .

MsM

Ok now i dont get this:
if i dont agree about setting all the walls full of meshes, I am a Mr mesh hater

if i dont like maps with alot of meshes because of the bad preformens .. i should not be playing UT2004

and "How could you know the "diffrends" between ut2k4 and ut23, when you skipped ut2k3?????"
i think ur askinf here a question about a topic that you dont give a **** about ... (like the ut99 thing i said) but i'm going to anwser it anyways.
1 morning i woke up and decided to buy UT2003 .. yes great looking maps new UT, sounds cool .. Then after 3 weeks the game got boring , It did not feeled like UT at all! so i skipped it :)
I think u could ThinK of such thing your self in the first place.. but u had to flame again..

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-25-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Ebolt
Hey there...

I designed the original DM-Nitro and I am quite flattered that people are making ports of it! It's been like 6 years...

Now, the screenshots do look a bit bland, especially the lighting. I do realise the original only had like 180 polys per frame too, but if you're converting it to UT2K4, you might as well add loads more detail :)

But still, just wanted to say I am quite amazed people still remember Nitro! Keep it up and I look forward to seeing the final version!

-Eric "Ebolt" Boltjes

Hey, it's great to hear from the you! I tried to contact you before starting this remake but couldn't find a homepage email or anything. You shouldn't be amazed, Nitro for UT was a great map.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-25-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Mirodaso
I also wouldn't have such a big mouth. People are giving you valuable points but it seems to me you can't handle those justified critics very well (as usual) and always start flaming and acting arrogant/messed up to save yourself and your BSP copy-paste maps.

I start flaming? Please. MsN came in here calling me a "newbie mapper" and suggesting I do a whole bunch of stuff that's allready been done. I ignored him at first but after a while the namecalling, implied insults and redundant "suggestions" got annoying so I reponded.

BSP copy paste maps? Get a clue.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-25-2004, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Yournan2000
Aye that Mirodaso.

Shame someone can't leave feedback atfer they've took the time to d/l the map and test it for them.

MsM

Shame you weren't actually leaving real useful feedback instead of namecalling and trying to pick fights. Would have been nice if you'd bothered to download the map and look at it in the editor BEFORE repeatedly putting your foot in your mouth and annoying me with redundant suggestions to do things I'd allready done.

So you've read a few tutorials, that doesn't make you an expert. I'm sorry you can't accept that I don't acknowledge you as the expert you seem to think you are, but you haven't brought up anything I didn't allready know and I'm no expert myself. Please stop trying to tell me how to map, I don't want or need your help.

As I politely mentioned elsewhere recently, you and I don't agree on what a "proper" (or "good" if you prefer) remake is. I respect that and don't comment on your work. I'd appreciate it if you'd return the courtesy and refrain from commenting on my work too. I'm going to bite my tongue now and not say what I really think of your remakes.

Let's just agree to disagree. You do your thing, I'll do mine and we won't comment on each other's work. Fair enough?

legacy-anarkist

06-25-2004, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
I have used blocking volumes where appropriate! And not used them where they are not appropriate. Geez I wish people would stop making uninformed comments.

It's not finished, it's a beta and as I stated before I am still adding details.

Darn my uninformed comments from having played the map. Suggesting I haven't is somewhat ludicrous.

Oh well.

legacy-CTFX1

06-25-2004, 06:23 PM

hey, didnt I say stop the flaming? :mad: :down: damn viscious cycle.

legacy-Yournan2000

06-26-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
Shame you weren't actually leaving real useful feedback instead of namecalling and trying to pick fights. Would have been nice if you'd bothered to download the map and look at it in the editor BEFORE repeatedly putting your foot in your mouth and annoying me with redundant suggestions to do things I'd allready done.

So you've read a few tutorials, that doesn't make you an expert. I'm sorry you can't accept that I don't acknowledge you as the expert you seem to think you are, but you haven't brought up anything I didn't allready know and I'm no expert myself. Please stop trying to tell me how to map, I don't want or need your help.

As I politely mentioned elsewhere recently, you and I don't agree on what a "proper" (or "good" if you prefer) remake is. I respect that and don't comment on your work. I'd appreciate it if you'd return the courtesy and refrain from commenting on my work too. I'm going to bite my tongue now and not say what I really think of your remakes.

Let's just agree to disagree. You do your thing, I'll do mine and we won't comment on each other's work. Fair enough?

*Rolls sleeves up

As for useful feedback mate, i posted screens and suggest what you could do, i think that is useful feedback by telling you which areas to work on and not saying theres no detail, i've gone out my way to post those screens and tell you.

As for pick fights thats not something i do, the guy made comment on me 1st.

I've obivously downloaded the map to take screens MoxNix but why would i even bother to open anyone elses map in the editor unless i'm going to work on it?:weird: :confused: .

I never said i'm a expert:sour: :weird:

If you didn't want my help why ask me to download your map and give it a try?:confused: :sour: :weird: .

Indeed we don't agree on a "proper" re-make you belief they should plain boring things with limited meshs, i actually put effort into mine and try my best i guess you bets tell Epic to do "proper" re-makes as well:confused: .

And yes fiar enough i won't bother commenting on your maps ever again, obivously i can see and others can that when someone makes a comment on your work you can't handle it and you get aggressive thinking that everything you do in the editor is perfect, well sorry mate nothing anyone does in the editor is perfect.

I'ii be sure not to waste my time in future and d/l your crap and mockery of so called "proper" re-makes.

Next time people leave you feedback after you've asked for it i suggest you don't be a tw@t about it.

MsM

legacy-Yournan2000

06-26-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
IMsN came in here calling me a "newbie mapper" and suggesting I do a whole bunch of stuff that's allready been done.

I didn't call you a newbie mapper, isuggest you read my post again. i said new mapper technique as if its un-finished which isn't bad seems its a beta:confused:

As for stuff already been done, i suggest adding wire frames, cables, beams and pipes in the ceiling i don't see any of that in these screens:confused: :weird:

MsM

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-27-2004, 09:09 PM

Here's a simple gameplay question for everyone. Which do you prefer, lighting gun or sniper rifle?

Frogger

06-28-2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by {DAM}MoxNix
Here's a simple gameplay question for everyone. Which do you prefer, lighting gun or sniper rifle?

sniper.

legacy-Super_Moose

06-28-2004, 06:50 AM

Definitely the LG.
The sniper is for sniping.

legacy-CTFX1

06-28-2004, 09:29 AM

no way, the sniper rifle sucks, lg owns.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-28-2004, 03:03 PM

I don't care for the LG myself because it works too well with fast weapon switching. Amongst higher skilled players things pretty much boil down to weapon combos where everyone just fires LG, then fires something else while waiting for LG to recharge and repeats the process till they either disengage or somebody dies.

Heh, they said the UT old snipe was overpowered, so they replaced it with a long range, zoomable instant hit weapon that's not only dead accurate and does headshots just like the old snipe, but also does more damage on body hits, is abused with fast weapon switching and has splash damage to boot.

I'm inclinded to go with snipe to make things more interesting. It wouldn't be all about LG fast switch combos like most maps anyhow. The downside is snipe has been nerfed so much it's not much fun to use anymore. I'll likely release a 2nd beta for feedback soon with LG replacing snipe. If feedback is overwhelmingly in favour of LG I'll probably go with it for the release version, otherwise I'll stick with snipe.

Frogger

06-28-2004, 04:23 PM

maybe put the LG on a ledge that you have to triple boost dodge to get..;)

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

06-29-2004, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by frogger187
maybe put the LG on a ledge that you have to triple boost dodge to get..;)

Heh, I could do that... But that would mean only the good players would ever get it. ;)

Then again might be interesting to have both snipe and LG in the map... Hmm... Guess I'll have to consider that too, probably be overkill but just might balance the map better for TDM.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

07-24-2004, 11:33 AM

Beta 2 is up for testing now

Download (http://s95265203.onlinehome.us/2004/betamaps/DM-Nitro2-beta2.zip)

- LG replaces snipe in this version.
- Jumpspots have been fixed where possible but it seems some are completely broken... Strange because all the jumpspots worked fine in an ealier 2k3 version.
- Many cosmetic changes too.

legacy-CTFX1

07-24-2004, 07:49 PM

not bad but not great either. I'd suggest replacing those goo chutes you have with lava, goo doesnt belong in this level imo, lava does. I noticed you have some of the oldest static meshes used ever, I'd recomend you replace those with something diffrent, I'm talking about the semi circle wall mesh with a bunch of pipes running through it. I'd say gameplay seems solid excepting bots really really like to hang out in the center where the lava is, not good. I would just grab lg, mini rl and get the dd and mega health plus ocasionally the shield and just run around shocking them to death with a dd lg gun lol. But of course, bots suck they always will. My only thing is you need to pretty up this map, a little more. Try putting in like realistic lighting sources, that right there is a substantial amount of decor by it's own means. Lighting can go a long ways in making level's look pretty ;). I'm not saying your lighting is overly bad but it could be improved.

legacy-{DAM}MoxNix

09-21-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by CTFX1
not bad but not great either. I'd suggest replacing those goo chutes you have with lava, goo doesnt belong in this level imo, lava does. I noticed you have some of the oldest static meshes used ever, I'd recomend you replace those with something diffrent, I'm talking about the semi circle wall mesh with a bunch of pipes running through it. I'd say gameplay seems solid excepting bots really really like to hang out in the center where the lava is, not good. I would just grab lg, mini rl and get the dd and mega health plus ocasionally the shield and just run around shocking them to death with a dd lg gun lol. But of course, bots suck they always will. My only thing is you need to pretty up this map, a little more. Try putting in like realistic lighting sources, that right there is a substantial amount of decor by it's own means. Lighting can go a long ways in making level's look pretty ;). I'm not saying your lighting is overly bad but it could be improved.

The bots hang around the middle when the amp is up because bots love to whore the amp, but those broken jumpspots I mentioned earlier prevent them from getting it. I haven't been able to figure out why they refuse to jump up there.

Like I said before the same jumpspots worked fine in early betas of this map for UT2k3. I've even tried deleting and replacing all those jumpspots, then lowering both them and the entire lava chute structure to less than half the height. Yet they still refuse to hammerjump to the amp. I even tried replacing the meshes and blocking volumes with BSP brushes once. That didn't do the trick either.They'll just hang around there jumping up and down repeatedly until something else, like say a player shooting at them, gets their attention.

The bots have the same problem trying to jump up from the shock rifle area to the platforms above it... Instead of hammerjumping, they just jump.

Yes, I agree the map needs some more "prettying up", but I don't want it overstuffed with eyecandy to the point where it hurts performance and/or gameplay.