Does lower fps effect your skills?

[legacy-darkonrt]

I'm a person who plays ona lower end cpu..
p4 1.5
769 megs rambus
radoen 9700 pro

There times i wanna smash my computer knowing i could be better if the game ran better..Last week friend brought his amd 64 rig over ..My skill increase was amazing wondeing how many folks like me are stuck with hunk of **** rigs ? :/.....It always baffles me when poeple say you won't notice much of a difference from 30 fps to steady 65

[legacy-MadJackMcJock]

I think so. :down:

[legacy-pbze]

Going on some servers and getting hammered like i do i feel that there is no hope for me even if i had a constant 80 fps (i currently get 40 - 50 in deathmatch).

[legacy-nogame]

ooo, i'm so writing an article about this one.

But NO, it doesn't lower your skills, just give you more reason to whine. (This is not directed at you mind you, just most gamers in general).

Since 80% of being a competitive gamer is mental, then you can accomplish all of that by being on a very low-end machine. However, you'll definatly hit more shots with hitscan weapons with more fps.

I have a clanmate that plays on a computer so old he barely runs the game, not to mention he only has a 15 inch monitor and cant install a vast amount of games on his computer simply because of hardware requirements. Though, he is easily one of the top 8 players in Canada.

Better hardware helps your aim, but if thats what you depend on to be a better player, then you've got more problems then having a slow pc.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by darkonrt
It always baffles me when poeple say you won't notice much of a difference from 30 fps to steady 65 Agreed. People that say stuff like that deserve a good slap on the head. 30fps is pretty much unplayable to me.
Anyway, I know that's not what this thread is about, but you badly need that CPU replaced. It's very likely that your CPU (and maybe your motherboard) is what's keeping your PC back. A Radeon 9700 Pro isn't a top of the line card, but used to be when UT2k3 was just out.

[legacy-Powerslave666]

Like nogame said, low fps does affect how many shots you'll hit. If you have a constant fps of at least 40 you shouldn't have much trouble, it's when your fps dips really quick that affects you the most. And nogame, are you talking about dnx3 playing on the old computer?

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Powerslave666
it's when your fps dips really quick that affects you the most. Definitly. If you run at 80fps in an empty room and the FPS drops to 40 when someone enters the room, your play suffers much more from it than when your FPS was 40 in both situations.

[legacy-nogame]

hehe, actually unity, i would wager to say dnx is a favorite pick for #1.

[legacy-Powerslave666]

Ahh, didn't know unity was Canadian.

[legacy-Mr. Roboto]

If you're playing team games like ONS or TDM, then it would be best to have a fair amount of RAM (though it seems you've enough since I'm only using 256 Mb) since lower load times help you get in the game faster or even get included in the game period (was near impossible for me to play LMS and Invasion as I couldn't load fast enough to be present at the start of LMS or before the only other guys on the Invasion server died)

However, I'm playing on a 1.9 Mhz P4 with 256 MB RD RAM and a GeForce 4 Ti-4600 128 MB. Framerate is alright most of the time (unless playing ONS on a fully 32 person server on a small map like Primeval or Frostbit), just my loading times stink (try around 1.5-2 minutes on a fresh boot). By the time I load the map when a new map begins each team has already occupied half of the nodes.

So with your current set up I'd say just replace your processor with a 2.0 or 2.3 and you'll be fine.

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

Originally posted by nogame
ooo, i'm so writing an article about this one.

But NO, it doesn't lower your skills, just give you more reason to whine. (This is not directed at you mind you, just most gamers in general).

Since 80% of being a competitive gamer is mental, then you can accomplish all of that by being on a very low-end machine. However, you'll definatly hit more shots with hitscan weapons with more fps.

I have a clanmate that plays on a computer so old he barely runs the game, not to mention he only has a 15 inch monitor and cant install a vast amount of games on his computer simply because of hardware requirements. Though, he is easily one of the top 8 players in Canada.

Better hardware helps your aim, but if thats what you depend on to be a better player, then you've got more problems then having a slow pc.

Who is that?

FPS does affect your gameplay, easy as that. It does not make you better, but it allows you to be better. You can still be really good with a bad machine, just it is harder. (For a more detailed expl. see the previous post about UT players having an advantage.)

[legacy-nogame]

The main thing is... that most people stop trying to improve once they realize having a low-end pc is a good justification for slow improvement.

There's simply so much to learn, having a slow PC only hinders a small portin of it. Don't make me use the reference of Badass HPB players in older games. They just sucked it up, and played harder and tried to improve until they couldnt do so anymore. Not only that, they often one because their mentality was a lot sharper then the people who had lower ping.

[legacy-Aurelius]

It does matter. you are not able to keep track of all movements around you with lower fps is my experience.

[legacy-jaQal]

Hey Aurelius I just played you. GG

Well on topic: With my PC I am lucky if I get 40-50 fps. Mostly its between 30-40 and gametypes like ONS is totally onplayable for me :(
Can someone please explain why your aim improves with more fps? (noob question I know:noob: )

[Darkus]

Well I have a low end pc, rarely hitting above 40FPS at all times....

I deal with it... :)

[legacy-Jermaine_X]

Originally posted by nogame
But NO, it doesn't lower your skills, just give you more reason to whine. (This is not directed at you mind you, just most gamers in general).

lies. with my old computer, i used to get 20 fps in ut2003 and i couldn't hit ****. i played quake 3 at the time (and got a good fps). i could hit anything with the rail gun in uake 3 but i couldn't hit **** in ut2003.
once i got a new computer, i got 90 fps all the time. i could aim a LOT better.

i think it's because when you aim you get less updates to the screen to see where you're looking at. you need to know where you're aiming to hit someone. with a lower fps you can see a man standing still then he snaps to another place. with a higher fps you can see him move and you can take your shot at him.

if you get a crap fps (30-40?) and you think you can deal with it, get 85 fps and see how much better you can play.

[legacy-Jertsy]

In Install Gib, I think, FPS has a lot to do with your performance & skill.

I went from an p4 2.8 (533) to a AMD64 3200 and noticed a huge difference in my perofrmance, this has stayed with me since....

J.

[legacy-thep0pe]

I do notice an improvement in my play every time I get a new PC - but it's not as big an improvement as the ones I get when I learn something new. Learning to time armour helped me more than switching from a 1.4ghz/GF2/512RAM to a 3ghz/R9800pro/1024RAM. However, the new PC made a massive difference in how much I enjoy the game.

BTW Nogame - I'm doing that article practicing by simplification now and I'll probably send it in soon.

[legacy-nogame]

there's soooooooooo much more invovled in skill then aim. If this thread was posted specifically upon low-end PC's and their hinderance of aim, thats one thing, but the term 'skill' was used.

If you feel that skill is aim-depedent, then you simply don't know what you're capable of doing if you look at the game from another perspective.

aim != skill
aim + strat + timing + comfort level + weapon switching + awareness + prediction = skill

Thats DEFINATLY not a perfect formula, but maybe that will enlighten some of the posters who think Skill is totally based upon Aim.

[legacy-killalot0]

i have a 1200 mhz ahtlon thunderbird 756 RAM and 64 mb geforce mx 420 i get frames between 30 and 50 it playes fine online. Just never use the sniper cause you get your ass kicked. but wo needs a lightning gun when they can use the rocket launcher flack shock rifle or minigun.

onslaught works fine only AS is practicly killing my computer i mean 2 to 5 fps isnt fun anymore i die in single player in the last maps to an amount of 50. than it just isnt fun anymore because you know you own those bots.

[legacy-^vs^Bazza]

ummm. . .. you call that system low end?!?!!? :weird:

damn i would call that a pretty good set-up compared to what i got i play with everything thing on lowest all extras OFF and still strugle to make constant 30fps :(

i dont care what anyone says the answer to your question is YES it does affect your skill, think about it

1. Low Detail = you cant tell whats player and whats wall
2. Freezes = you got no control for a short period and most probably will die
3. Lag Maps = nothing more annoying than lag maps, especially when its your fav map Deck17 but on a bad sys like me you can barely move without getting a BIG delay which ofcourse will affect skill level

and ther eis more reasons but im getting bored of typing now. . . . but i think having a poor system GREATLY affects your skill, one like yours shouldnt be too bad tho ;)

oh btw im not saying ppl CANT get good on a bad comp but ofcourse they would be BETTER on a good comp ;)

[legacy-darkonrt]

Originally posted by Boksha
Agreed. People that say stuff like that deserve a good slap on the head. 30fps is pretty much unplayable to me.
Anyway, I know that's not what this thread is about, but you badly need that CPU replaced. It's very likely that your CPU (and maybe your motherboard) is what's keeping your PC back. A Radeon 9700 Pro isn't a top of the line card, but used to be when UT2k3 was just out.

Ya for sure cpu+mobo+old rambus ram heh my whole system is a bottleneck but im not lime most poeple i expect it to run poor, have to make do witch what i got till the end of summer..But any good player on a low end system would improve alot with hit scan guns

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

LMAO!

Of course low frames per sec. will effect your gameplay, even a change from 30 to 60fps is drastic. It effects everyting from judging distance and target recognition to aim.

Yes, killalot0's system, similar to mine BTW, is low end. We are talking a difference of gigs in process time and visual rendering vs people with P4's and a gig + of ram running current Radeons and GF's. The very thought that it doesnt make a huge difference on how well you can play isnt even worth the explination of why.

While ingame time will greatly improve your skill no matter what hardware you use, two players of equil skill, one with a crap system, and the other with a high end system, the one running the high end system running at the lowest detail settings will always win. Its not just rendering and processing of the game, its also calculating player input from keyboard and mouse.

I cant believe that you guys believe the crap you are posting.

[legacy-Jermaine_X]

Originally posted by nogame
there's soooooooooo much more invovled in skill then aim. If this thread was posted specifically upon low-end PC's and their hinderance of aim, thats one thing, but the term 'skill' was used.

If you feel that skill is aim-depedent, then you simply don't know what you're capable of doing if you look at the game from another perspective.

aim != skill
aim + strat + timing + comfort level + weapon switching + awareness = skill

Thats DEFINATLY not a perfect formula, but maybe that will enlighten some of the posters who think Skill is totally based upon Aim.
i can do all of those (can't be arsed to time. ain't done it in ages)
you need a very good aim to kill a lot though.
did you forget prediction aswell?

[legacy-Foo]

Originally posted by : DX :-THeGAME
I cant believe that you guys believe the crap you are posting.

Heh, given your recent blabbering about firewalls and graphic viewports, that's very hypocritical.

[legacy-darkonrt]

I agree..I never played unreal 2003 or 2004 on a high end rig till last week...It reminded me of old quake2 days when i would go to a friends house to play on his cable modem...And notice the great smoothness and just drool...I would play this game way more on a high end system...Wish i was not poor :-) credit cards all maxed up from house payments

[legacy-nogame]

Jermaine, indeed I did, but don't fault me on it this early in the morning.

[legacy-Jerry1978]

what matters more than anything else is how stable the FPS are, because it changes how you aim. :sulk:

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

Originally posted by Foo
Heh, given your recent blabbering about firewalls and graphic viewports, that's very hypocritical.

It would be if I wasnt right...
And I am.
Put your head back in the sand and find some WMD...

[legacy-Foo]

Hehe, I couldn't resist :)

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

*smooch*

:D

[legacy-Buffy Summers]

Does lower fps effect your skills?

No, but it does affect your possibilities to use your skill. Low FPS will always makes aiming harder for example, which will always make you aim worse.

But you can still become a skilled player with low FPS, and I have even seen players who, atleast for a while, finds it harder to play after a computer upgrade.

Its the same with ping btw.

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

Thats not exactly true either.

Your skill level will jump once you have the hardware that makes reaction through player input more fluid with reaction on screen. There is an adjustment to the faster process that will throw you off of course, but Id put dollars to doughnuts that someone learning on a high end system will learn faster, and more, than someone on a low end. Everything would be more fluid to player input, and hand-eye would have a better chance to develop.

Correct on ping for the most part, with the above hardware exceptions. Someone with a high end PC still has the advantage with a higher ping within reason, say 100ms.

[legacy-Coolguy]

you think that's a low end system :bulb: I got a p4 1.7 GHz and a geforce 2 mx 400, there are people who play on a 700MHz celeron, with a geforce 2 mx200....

tio get to your question.. you just got to get used to iut, and with that system your bound to get good fps

[legacy-nogame]

Let's at least get the terminology right... Aim... Not Skill, Aim. Aim is not skill, its simply a small portion of it.

I dont care how crazy your computer is, if you aim like a freak but play like a moron a smarter player with similar aim will make you look like a tool. So if we're to go pound for pound on the subject, if both players had similar Aim, why would player 2 beat player 1? Because there are other aspects of skill that are not based upon your aim, therefore skill is not totally depedent on aim, and therefore skill is not based upon your hardware configurations.

Once again, Aim is simply a pre-req of having a great deal of skill, but its certainly not the ONLY requirement.

[Chain-Lei]

Doesn´t affect skills only limit them as buffy said...

Anyway I play with 15fps average and 170 ping at cain´s 32 players ons server and I´m usually the top fragger :D

Playing like this everyone is a challenge to frag ! even the random jumpy noobie :p

:)

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

Originally posted by nogame
Let's at least get the terminology right... Aim... Not Skill, Aim. Aim is not skill, its simply a small portion of it.

I dont care how crazy your computer is, if you aim like a freak but play like a moron a smarter player with similar aim will make you look like a tool. So if we're to go pound for pound on the subject, if both players had similar Aim, why would player 2 beat player 1? Because there are other aspects of skill that are not based upon your aim, therefore skill is not totally depedent on aim, and therefore skill is not based upon your hardware configurations.

Once again, Aim is simply a pre-req of having a great deal of skill, but its certainly not the ONLY requirement.

Dood, if player 2 can see or recognize the target better due to better graphic hardware display, and his input through the game is faster, player 1 is dogmeat. Aim has much less to do with it when your target is displayed with greater clarity and movement input is processed at a faster rate. By the time player 1 can defign a target out of the enviroment, the other guy has pulled the trigger and the round is on its way. This doesnt even include positional updates, where player 2 could have killed player 1, gone home and had a nice steak dinner, boned the ol lady and went to bed before player 1 even sees player 2. A bit drastic, but thats a overblown example of running a P700 vs a P4.

[legacy-nogame]

then how would you explain the fact that some players have ridiculously bad system, but still compete at the professional levels? Thus, beating all the other players with optimal computers?

On paper your theory sounds fine, but I could prove it wrong everytime on a server. It is however, something you have to experience.

And once again, you are still only focusing on Aim, not skill.

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

Non equal skill level.

Hehe,, see your practice post..
Some people are just ungodly good at the game, and are able to find the groove better than others, this is true ofcourse. But you arent thinking in terms of matched skill with this question. also, the differences go from very noticible to very suttle the closer you get to matching up the hardware.

Bsides, I dont think there are too many people playing in leagues that are doing very well with minimal system requirements. If they are, we need a training video cuz they must have some of that ungodly skill.

The easiest way to test it for your self is put everything on Holy shata, play a game, then turn everything down and play one. this includes 32 bit to 16 but desktop as it effects game play too. Vsynch and anti alias. Now with everything turned to high, you have a slow PC, and everything turned down low you have a fast system. Chances are you will do much better with everything set to low as everything will run better and your PC isnt being worked as hard and you get much higher fps.

[legacy-enfestid]

I run on a 700MHz computer with 128MB and a 64MB GFMX440. Scores I've achieved on CTF (none from capturing the flag):

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2213232
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2213269

Quit whining and play the game. It doesn't matter what kind of FPS you get, you can still be good.

[legacy-ssj3kakoroto]

I do get a reasonably better score when playing on maps that arent as laggy, but for the most part it doesnt effect me that much. Using an Athlon 1800+ 512 DDR and Radeon 9600pro. Average 40-60FPS on CTF/DM and 25-35 ONS/AS

[legacy-KhaaL]

after playing ONS at a average of a 7 fps at lowerst settings, i learned that it *does* affect your gameplay.

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

Originally posted by ^vs^Bazza
ummm. . .. you call that system low end?!?!!? :weird:

damn i would call that a pretty good set-up compared to what i got i play with everything thing on lowest all extras OFF and still strugle to make constant 30fps :(

i dont care what anyone says the answer to your question is YES it does affect your skill, think about it

1. Low Detail = you cant tell whats player and whats wall
2. Freezes = you got no control for a short period and most probably will die
3. Lag Maps = nothing more annoying than lag maps, especially when its your fav map Deck17 but on a bad sys like me you can barely move without getting a BIG delay which ofcourse will affect skill level

and ther eis more reasons but im getting bored of typing now. . . . but i think having a poor system GREATLY affects your skill, one like yours shouldnt be too bad tho ;)

oh btw im not saying ppl CANT get good on a bad comp but ofcourse they would be BETTER on a good comp ;)

Some people with a top of the line system play with the lowest possible settings for the environment, and high player details. And can't forget that lodbias command some people use. :\ (Unrelated I know, but I though I'd add that.)

@nogame: Who is the Canadian player who is in the top 8? Please enlighten me.

[placebo]

I think that low FPS effects your aim, but you can still own if you use rockets and other less-precise weapons that rely more on movement and leading-skills than aim.

[legacy-Fm1nus]

anyone that whines about 30 frames sucks at the game i get 25-45 in assault and i still own so stop whining and just play the game

[legacy-thekaLi]

err, i think this is only logical that your skill will be better with acceptable frames at least.... :bulb:

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

Originally posted by Fm1nus
anyone that whines about 30 frames sucks at the game i get 25-45 in assault and i still own so stop whining and just play the game

Whine != Skill

However in my case, I complain about my hardware and I suck. Shall we duel anyway?

[legacy-Buffy Summers]

Originally posted by : DX :-THeGAME
Someone with a high end PC still has the advantage with a higher ping within reason, say 100ms.Yes, a high FPS and low ping will always make you play better, but that does not mean they increase your skill. How good you play are determined by a number of factors (skill, ping, fps, tiredness, drunkness, blindness, etc).

[legacy-Fm1nus]

Originally posted by CPG-US^Prophet
Whine != Skill

However in my case, I complain about my hardware and I suck. Shall we duel anyway?

k u got AIM or a server IP i can go to

[legacy-Fuzzlebunny]

Didnt read the previous replies, but.. I have more problems spotting movement with lower fps (say sub 30).
If someone shoots a rocket at me and I get good fps, I can quickly see that a rocket is coming towards me. With lower fps I can't differentiate it from the background.
I also find it harder to aim with hitscan weapons as you only get a certain number of chances to fire with lower fps. If the guy quickly jumps through your reticle I could time it with a fluid framerate, but this gets hard when you can only see him for 1 or 2 frames.

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

I don't like aol products. Shoot me a PM for where ya hang out on IRC, I'll pop in... lets not hijack the thread.

[legacy-Saito]

I don’t think any of you grasp what nogame is saying one bit.

The issue is top end hardware only helps with aim, and aim is not the defining characteristic of a top-level player, it’s actually probably one of the least important. The players that are truly great have much more going for them: It’s a knowledge of the game, timing, the ability to think like the other guy and know where he is going, and not losing your head in a pickle. There are so many more important things that aim.

The argument of “does lower FPS affect your AIM” that’s valid.

The argument of “does lower FPS affect your SKILLS” that’s not valid.

Unless we are talking extreme low (ie under 20) it’s not that crippling. And at 30 or greater you are doing fine. I get about 60 online at my comp, and about 30 on my laptop… and you know what, I do just as well on both. Maybe it’s just how I play, but wins or loses depend on how I played the match, and my thought process in it, not random twitch shots with no foresight behind “why I am doing this and what will it achieve”

[legacy-squoibymox]

It all depends on which numbers, and which game. Since we're talking UT...

Let's take two players of equal skill.

If one is stuck at 18fps and the other is getting 80, the one with 80 is going to win. Period.

Let's make this 40 vs. 60.

The 60 is going to have a little bit of aim advantage, but not enough to have much effect on the outcome. There WILL be a slight advantage though.

Let's make this 60 vs. 120.

Same as above, but now we have another factor - is the 120 person running on a monitor that only does 60hz refresh?

The 120 person could be at a DISADVANTAGE if that's the case...

Particularly if their FPS are fluctuating by 30 or 40 fps while the 60 person is rock stable... (but I'd rather be this person than the one stuck at 18fps any day...)

So...

GENERALLY speaking more fps is better, and GENERALLY speaking the one with more fps is the one with the advantage.

Just how MUCH of an advantage is going to depend on a lot of other things besides the exact numerical difference between the two machines though....

And just a reminder to any rebuttals here - all of this assumes two players of equal skill...

[legacy-BabyNuke]

I suppose FPS affects your performance when it becomes problematic. When you're moving really choppy and the game kinda like 'freezes' every 5 seconds or so, it won't do you any good. This is a bit gametype dependant though. Low FPS on InstaDM is much worse than it is on onslaught.

[legacy-Saito]

And just a reminder to any rebuttals here - all of this assumes two players of equal skill...

So then you concede skill is a separate issue from aim.

[legacy-squoibymox]

Originally posted by Saito
So then you concede skill is a separate issue from aim.

Um, wouldn't aim BE a skill?

What exactly is in the water people drink these days....

[legacy-Saito]

The point is skill is made up of many different things. Claiming FPS lowers your skill is a cop out.

Claiming FPS may give you an advantage in some situations with aim is true.

[legacy-squoibymox]

Originally posted by Saito
The point is skill is made up of many different things. Claiming FPS lowers your skill is a cop out.

Claiming FPS may give you an advantage in some situations with aim is true.

You're a pretty self conflicting dude!

Now, a better way to frame this whole thing is to simply say that lower fps can put one at a disadvantage.

Forget debating exactly what skills in the game are affected.

Just simply go with the facts - "Lower framerates can put one at a disadvantage".

[legacy-Saito]

Yeah but just blanket claiming what you do raises other issues

Once could say, having a smaller monitor puts you at a disadvantage, or one could claim playing at a lower resolution puts you at a disadvantage, the same with improper gama.

The thing is these things all have no input on your mental ability to play a game, or ability grasp the concepts behind it.

So blaming your skill on your FPS, is weak at best.

[legacy-Drag00n]

Originally posted by darkonrt
I'm a person who plays ona lower end cpu..
p4 1.5
769 megs rambus
radoen 9700 pro

There times i wanna smash my computer knowing i could be better if the game ran better..Last week friend brought his amd 64 rig over ..My skill increase was amazing wondeing how many folks like me are stuck with hunk of **** rigs ? :/.....It always baffles me when poeple say you won't notice much of a difference from 30 fps to steady 65

you call that lower end cpu! ahahahahha try playing on a freaking PIII 933! yeah now stop complaining! :cry:

p3 933
geforce fx 5200 128
256 pc 133 ram (yeah thats right the ooold ram)

low fps = offline version of lag the lower the fps the higher the lag (which is bad) or you computer bogging down

Bad gama = I can't see shyte (which means you can't hit shyte, which is bad in an FPS)

small screen = small screen not as bad as the above 2

[legacy-regniguy]

DUH

[legacy-KinkyPinkyClan]

NO! I hate when people ***** about low FPS!!! I would get top of the list while getting 19 FPS in Torlan back in the demo days. And I still get top of the list with my new computer, and the only difference is the lightning gun, thats it, its just abit easier to aim the lightning gun. So NO! LOWER FPS DOES NOT EFFECT SKILLS! ITS EITHER YOU HAVE THEM OR YOU DONT!

[Shadow]I[]

i used to play ut2k3 with 15 - 20 fps for about a year, then i got new video card with 30 - 40 fps and i totally got godlike :eek:

[legacy-squoibymox]

Hmm, seems there's a lot of people here who haven't sat down on a LAN with a buddy of equal skill, and traded back and forth on computers...

Some claim of "I got 19fps and owned everyone on Torlan, so fps has NOTHING to do with skill" ain't gonna pass a little reality test...

Try it.

Take a real life buddy who's abilities are equal or close to your own.

Play UT on a LAN, with two computers of quite different performance ability.

There's a reality that takes place in that scenario, a reality that words on a message board or vomited opinions won't affect...

[legacy-Saito]

and there's a reality that some top players are on suck ass comps

[legacy-squoibymox]

Originally posted by Saito
and there's a reality that some top players are on suck ass comps

But comparing players of different skill levels has nothing to do with the thread topic.

The experiment I outlined has everything to do with answering the original question.

You're just making "spinoff" arguments that have nothing to do with it.

[legacy-KinkyPinkyClan]

Originally posted by squoibymox
Hmm, seems there's a lot of people here who haven't sat down on a LAN with a buddy of equal skill, and traded back and forth on computers...

Some claim of "I got 19fps and owned everyone on Torlan, so fps has NOTHING to do with skill" ain't gonna pass a little reality test...

Try it.

Take a real life buddy who's abilities are equal or close to your own.

Play UT on a LAN, with two computers of quite different performance ability.

There's a reality that takes place in that scenario, a reality that words on a message board or vomited opinions won't affect...

Don't ****ing mock me. I went from a P4 2.0Ghz, 512MB, 9000 to an A64 3200+, 1GB PC3200, 5900 and I DID MEAN WHAT I SAID! I AM NOT LYING, I WAS TOP OF THE LIST AT 19FPS, AND IM TOP OF THE LIST AT 85FPS. DONT LECTURE ME ON **** YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT!!!! Its called the placebo effect, you wanted a good excuse to say why you were worse so you wanted to believe that a faster machine helped you, and what happens in your mind is YOUR reality.

An Increase in FPS does not help skill, maybe aim with the lightning gun, but thats it. not the other dozen weapons or movement, strategy, phsycological tactics, or trash talking.

Why don't you spend your time practicing, instead of making excuses.

[legacy-~Torment~_1]

ehem, I play on aP3 933 with 384 SDRAM and a GF2 MX 400, and I get 20 FPS in ONS, so dont complain.(Which is very good btw) :sour:

[legacy-dethmanrulz]

no, having higher fps does not affect skill........ it may often effect how effectively you can implement that skill into your gaming.

[legacy-FuZoRBlade]

personally, i dont know what you are complaining about, my computer is about 10 times worse than that and i have to play at 640x480, minimal detail, at 20-25 fps on ons-torlan.

I KNOW that if i had a better comp i'd do much better because 25 fps is just too choppy....

[legacy-dethmanrulz]

Originally posted by FuZoRBlade
personally, i dont know what you are complaining about, my computer is about 10 times worse than that and i have to play at 640x480, minimal detail, at 20-25 fps on ons-torlan.

I KNOW that if i had a better comp i'd do much better because 25 fps is just too choppy....

bingo. I play on my machine where I often get really choppy gameplay......... I go to my friend's house (who has a kickass PC) and I can frag away and smoothly fly all over the map........

[legacy-Fuzzlebunny]

I just wanna emphasize on my earlier point that higher fps makes it easier to see movement (read: incoming projectiles and players).

Imagine looking at a snowstorm in detail, where one single snowflake moves twice as fast than the rest. You could easily pick this out at a fluid framerate, but I am positive that you would have major problems seeing it with ~20 fps.
Same goes for red players on a red background, or a rocket coming towards you on a grey background. You have to spot them as single images instead of an animation.

[legacy-squoibymox]

Originally posted by dethmanrulz
no, having higher fps does not affect skill........ it may often effect how effectively you can implement that skill into your gaming.

Well said.

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

Hahah!

[legacy-squoibymox]

I'll disregard a certain post that isn't even worthy of a reply...

Anyone, I challenge anyone to try some real world experience in this matter.

Again, take two players of equal or close to equal skill.

Put them on a LAN. Not the internet, a LAN.

Use two computers of completely different caliber.

Play 1 on 1 DM.

Switch computers every few rounds.

Watch what happens, and let reality sink in, and quit worrying about words on message boards.

[legacy-regniguy]

FPS does matter.

Your scenario is valid, but your conclusion does not become supported simply by stating a valid condition.

The fact is at low fps <20 action will be too choppy to compete against a skilled player who is maintaining >35 fps.

Now if you are trying to make a point of 30 fps vs 90 fps, there is not a question you are correct.




Originally posted by squoibymox
I'll disregard a certain post that isn't even worthy of a reply...

Anyone, I challenge anyone to try some real world experience in this matter.

Again, take two players of equal or close to equal skill.

Put them on a LAN. Not the internet, a LAN.

Use two computers of completely different caliber.

Play 1 on 1 DM.

Switch computers every few rounds.

Watch what happens, and let reality sink in, and quit worrying about words on message boards.

[legacy-Sphinx]

yes! the lower the details, the better you play. (it doesnt improve any skill, but makes it easier)

[legacy-Sphinx]

Originally posted by squoibymox
I'll disregard a certain post that isn't even worthy of a reply...

Anyone, I challenge anyone to try some real world experience in this matter.

Again, take two players of equal or close to equal skill.

Put them on a LAN. Not the internet, a LAN.

Use two computers of completely different caliber.

Play 1 on 1 DM.

Switch computers every few rounds.

Watch what happens, and let reality sink in, and quit worrying about words on message boards.

i was @ a LAN where smiley was, and i didnt attend, was just visiting. So i played on his PC with his user.ini and my ut2003.ini (2k4 wasnt out yet) and tbh. It DOES really matter with what graphic settings ou play with. Maybe even more then the keybinds.

[legacy-DemonHunter]

bah I live with FPS in the 20-30 range.

Would like better, but can't afford it now :noob:

[legacy-regniguy]

Not sure what 'bah' means to you....
But player A at skill say 4/5 with 20 fps will always be handicap against player B with the same skill, config, connection, PC etc who is getting 40 fps (for example).





Originally posted by DemonHunter
bah I live with FPS in the 20-30 range.

Would like better, but can't afford it now :noob:

[legacy-DemonHunter]

bah, means I dislike my low FPS and am envious of some of you guys with wicked high ones :p

(and yes, I have optimized the crap outta my machine..dang PCI cards and celeron processors)

[legacy-regniguy]

Oh!

I feel for you.
I have been there. It didn't stop me from playing, but I had the big green envoy monster on my back so much I couldn't stand it!
So, I opted not to eat for a month so I could get a 9800 pro hahaha. ...Hmmm or was it, I stopped taking my gf out to dinner for a month?

;)



Originally posted by DemonHunter
bah, means I dislike my low FPS and am envious of some of you guys with wicked high ones :p

(and yes, I have optimized the crap outta my machine..dang PCI cards and celeron processors) ;)

[legacy-Sphinx]

it doesnt matter at what skill someone is tbh, when dueling the one with lower fps always has a handicap, even when its pro vs noob. so imo regniguy your arguementation isnt fully valid, altho its true

[legacy-regniguy]

Sure it is, to make valid comparisons to analyze the validity of a hypothesis, you must equalize ALL variables, except the condition you wish to test for.

On another point, a noob is never going to beat a pro.... Any pro with 20fps will still traunch a noob with 69 fps



Originally posted by SpH1nX
it doesnt matter at what skill someone is tbh, when dueling the one with lower fps always has a handicap, even when its pro vs noob. so imo regniguy your arguementation isnt fully valid, altho its true

[legacy-dethmanrulz]

Originally posted by squoibymox
Well said.

thank you.

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

Originally posted by KinkyPinkyClan
Don't ****ing mock me. I went from a P4 2.0Ghz, 512MB, 9000 to an A64 3200+, 1GB PC3200, 5900 and I DID MEAN WHAT I SAID! I AM NOT LYING, I WAS TOP OF THE LIST AT 19FPS, AND IM TOP OF THE LIST AT 85FPS. DONT LECTURE ME ON **** YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT!!!! Its called the placebo effect, you wanted a good excuse to say why you were worse so you wanted to believe that a faster machine helped you, and what happens in your mind is YOUR reality.

An Increase in FPS does not help skill, maybe aim with the lightning gun, but thats it. not the other dozen weapons or movement, strategy, phsycological tactics, or trash talking.

Why don't you spend your time practicing, instead of making excuses.

No need to yell here.

Top of the list is not really a defining factor of skill. I assume you're talking about pubbing, it does not mean anything. What team do you play for? What events have you won? That is skill.

I have the world's crappiest mouse, it's cheap, and is pos. If I had a better mouse I surely would be better then I am now, I'm just cheap. Hrm.. same with my internet connection. So it factors the same across alot of things.

And no, I don't think the placebo effect has an effect here, hardware does limit skill. Better hardware = more potential.

By the way, nice forum codes in your profanity, I'm pretty sure the filters are there for a reason.

[legacy-nogame]

He may have approached it in a rash manner but I think he's right.

Usually people's excuse for not improving their game play is their hardware. It's as simple as that. Earlier in the thread I posted about having a teammate who is one of the top 8 (in my beliefs) in Canada. [dz]uNity been on Demise for around 4 years now and I asked him for his computer specs for a reference.

amd xp 2000+ (1.6ghz) underclocked to 1.2 ghz
512 mb ram
radeon 9700 pro (running at lowest settings)


Now the reason he underclocks is because his computer runs at such a high tempature, if he runs it at full speed it crashes. He simply doesn't have the luxury of spending a lot of money on his computer.

Sure, some of you have worse systems, but do you consistently place 1st or 2nd place on every national tournament your team enters? Probably not. If his skill is in question, feel free to ask around.

Did he stop trying to improve his ability with the excuse of 'my pc sucks'? Nope... and neither should anyone else. You can achieve great skill without a high-end pc.

Someone's assumption of skill is relative to their skill level. So if they say 'yes, you cant improve much further without a better PC' then they are quite simply, not that good. Or at least not up to the standards I feel is relevant for this discussion.

[legacy-CPG-US^Prophet]

I never said you could not improve more, (nor am I saying that was directed at me), but better hardware does aide in progress imho.

I'll use my mouse for example, it blows, it skips if I move it too fast. I'm still improving... but nonetheless I will be replacing it soon with an MX 510.

I also agree with your last sentence, that there is a certain level of skill required to understand the logistics of this discussion. In a way it's like how some lesser players can accuse better players of cheats, they don't have the maturity to comprehend the levels the game can be played at.

demise is pretty good

[legacy-Newbie]

Many top level players can shoot like automatic. When dealing with these kind of players and you are happened to be one of them, FPS/ping will make all the difference.

On the hand, if you are nothing but just an average casual player, it won't make any difference even you have the fastest machine or sitting next to the server.


Chain-Lei, with your ping, your are pretty good on the shock combo.

[legacy-thep0pe]

It's amazing the difference a PC swap can make if you play someone with a bad PC when you have a good one. A sub 30 framerate is quite bad for your aim, which is an important part of skill. Another factory, possibly more important, is that a low framerate distracts you. It makes playing less comfortable, and being comfortable while playing makes you play better.

[legacy-LastPlaced]

Originally posted by darkonrt
I'm a person who plays ona lower end cpu..
p4 1.5
769 megs rambus
radoen 9700 pro

There times i wanna smash my computer knowing i could be better if the game ran better..Last week friend brought his amd 64 rig over ..My skill increase was amazing wondeing how many folks like me are stuck with hunk of **** rigs ? :/.....It always baffles me when poeple say you won't notice much of a difference from 30 fps to steady 65


Well it's not really 'your skill' that is is changing. The game does become easier to play with a smoother running game. I noticed it when I upgraded as have many others.

So next time someone starts boasting that they thrashed you it's probably just because you have a low end PC - nothing to do with your ability to play the game. You just cant compete at the highest level without a fast machine and the latest round of 'tweaks'.

Would be funny to put these god like players on your PC and see them suffer, can you imagine the excuses and whining?!

[legacy-: DX :-THeGAME]

In the end, you cant blame a PC due to a loss. If people are willing to spend hundreds for a good gaming system, its not thier problem if you have a crappy one. Id just like more of the people who think thay are so good at the game to realize they might not be wining due to thier skill alone.

PC specs and ping are the two biggest advantages and disavantages in any real time online game.

Anyone running a low end system and does really well deserves alot of credit. But that doesnt mean you can just take away from the skill of someone who has a high end system either.

In the end, you just have to deal with it, or go play consol...

[legacy-Ihr Feind]

People that say FPS are holding their skills back are just making excuses.