CTF-Confrontation

[legacy-Plutonic]

Name: CTF-Confrontation
Version: 1.0
Compatibility: UT2004

Description: "It seemed simple enough - gather two teams, give each a base and expect the teams to co-exist peacefully - but someone HAD to steal a flag!"

CTF-Confrontation is designed for 6 to 10 players. It features two bases facing each other across an open midfield. Players can cross the linking bridge, sneak across at ground level and 'catch some serious air' using the jump pads. The exterior and interior layout provides for intense action with a diverse range of opportunities for attacking and defensive game play. Enjoy!

Comments: One of my two entries for Phase 3 of the Make Something Unreal Contest.

Screenshot: http://www.planetunreal.com/plutonic/images/Confrontation_2.jpg

Homepage: http://www.plutonicdesign.com
Download: http://www.plutonicdesign.com

[Circus]

New member from May of 2000!:)

I am sure the map is good but do you got a non membership link for me to download it from?

Thanks!

[legacy-Plutonic]

I have updated my site with a few more DL links and will continue to do so over the next couple of days :D

Try - [C]eltic [W]ar [L]ordz (http://www.celticwarlordz.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&cid=37&lid=991&ttitle=CTF-Confrontation#dldetails)

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Got it.

[Circus]

:up: Thank you!

[legacy-TehMackAttack]

like the castle thing

[legacy-Shuri]

Looks a bit reminiscent of the lovely CTF-Conquest.

[legacy-Plutonic]

It's funny that you should say that ... the bases are from CTF-Conquest2004 (though development on this is stalled at the moment) and I wanted to use them on a map with a smaller midfield. :D

[legacy-A2597]

Plutonic...name is familier...from my time period of registration...

I know you....from somewhere...

[Angel_Mapper]

tbh the lighting in this map is pretty horrid, there are a lot of overblown washed out places, and a lot of bright places with really dark meshes mixed in. The coronas on the outside of the bases seem more like decorations than actual light sources.

The lighting doesn't look as good as your previous UT99 maps, it needs a lot of work. Just doesn't seem like a Plutonic quality map. :(

[legacy-Radeon285]

I agree with Rach, Plut. You REALLY need to work on the lighting in your newer maps, they all seem way too washed out. Most of it due to the static meshs which have a way high ambientbrightness to them. It just dosnt look good... That and the map has connectivity issues. Why take the bridge when I can use a jumpad that will shoot me to the other base safely? only jumpads that should be in are the ones down on the terrain, that shoot you up onto the bases........

[legacy-Plutonic]

think about it ...

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Radeon285
Most of it due to the static meshs which have a way high ambientbrightness to them.

Which ones are those?


Originally posted by Radeon285
Why take the bridge when I can use a jumpad that will shoot me to the other base safely? only jumpads that should be in are the ones down on the terrain, that shoot you up onto the bases........

Think about it from a gameplay point of view!! It is all about variety. Additionally the kickers provide for some cool moves by defending players. :D

[legacy-PRiMeEViL.SiN]

Needs more pipes

[legacy-Plutonic]

... and more crates ... preferrably ones that inexplicably explode when shot :P

[legacy-Super_Moose]

Nice map. :):up:
Plays very well IMO.
And unlike Hypothermia, it runs. :D:up:

[legacy-Radeon285]

well its just that it makes flagruns almost too easy. should be somewhat of a challenge. right now I can do a clear run in under a half-minute easily..........

maybe I was wrong about the lighting on the meshs, but everything is still waaaaay too washed out. It just dosnt look good, im sorry :(

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Well, map does look washed out... It was the first thing I noticed.

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Radeon285
well its just that it makes flagruns almost too easy. should be somewhat of a challenge. right now I can do a clear run in under a half-minute easily..........


Hmm ... interesting ... I have always thought that CTF map design is less about the time it takes to 'walk' from one base to the other and more about the attacking and defending opportunities. It seems to me that the most popular maps online for 6-10 players tend to have a relatively short linear distance between the bases, but significant opportunties for defensive team work. Hence these matches are less about "can I survive carrying this flag for five minutes?" and more concerned with "how do we breach their defenses and get back out with the flag?".

For maps designed for a larger player load, I agree the midfield needs to be big. ;-)

I think that it is fascinating that there is a difference in opinions between mappers about what consititutes a good CTF map. In many ways this is a good thing as it means that the community gets to play a variety of CTF styles. What I find really annoying is when a mapper criticises the work of another because they think the 'rules' have been broken. Variety and orginality is the key to a successful 'community mapping' scene and so, as mappers, we have a responsibility to promote freedom of design.

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Radeon285
everything is still waaaaay too washed out

I am happy to accept that criticism ... I was trying to achieve a daylight look for the exterior and this lead to things getting a bit 'bright' in places ... on my rig it looks okay, but it may not on all computers. I just didn't want to make a map that - like so many others - is set either in the early morning or late afternoon or in the middle of the night. I realise 'times' allow for lighting that looks great, but I just didn't want to go there. So I made the decision to create a daylight exterior in the knowledge that some people would not like it because it does not fit the 'norm'. Again (a la my previous post), this criticism will most probably come from other 'community mappers'.

If I release an 101 version of this map, I will tone down some of the bright spots on the exterior (particularly the main entrance to each base).

[legacy-Fugly]

I like it also, lots of good routes to take , plays well, good job.

[legacy-oozabooman]

Originally posted by Plutonic
I am happy to accept that criticism ... I was trying to achieve a daylight look for the exterior and this lead to things getting a bit 'bright' in places ... on my rig it looks okay, but it may not on all computers. I just didn't want to make a map that - like so many others - is set either in the early morning or late afternoon or in the middle of the night. I realise 'times' allow for lighting that looks great, but I just didn't want to go there. So I made the decision to create a daylight exterior in the knowledge that some people would not like it because it does not fit the 'norm'. Again (a la my previous post), this criticism will most probably come from other 'community mappers'.

If I release an 101 version of this map, I will tone down some of the bright spots on the exterior (particularly the main entrance to each base).

What do you mean about the daytime thing? The sky is all dark and the bridge is all bright. A little confusing. Although a lot of maps are 2 bases connected by (a) bridge/es, this may have potential.

I know I'm not a good mapper, but I know art.

[Grim]

Very nice map :up:

[legacy-MCCCXXXVII]

You should really do something about your use of colors. The light on one side is really boring and washed out with a lot of white, and your textures on the other hand have a few trillion colors, resulting in creating a really messy look
Wheres the style and design ?
Gameplay is decent tho

[legacy-Radeon285]

Originally posted by Plutonic
Hmm ... interesting ... I have always thought that CTF map design is less about the time it takes to 'walk' from one base to the other and more about the attacking and defending opportunities. It seems to me that the most popular maps online for 6-10 players tend to have a relatively short linear distance between the bases, but significant opportunties for defensive team work. Hence these matches are less about "can I survive carrying this flag for five minutes?" and more concerned with "how do we breach their defenses and get back out with the flag?".

For maps designed for a larger player load, I agree the midfield needs to be big. ;-)

I think that it is fascinating that there is a difference in opinions between mappers about what consititutes a good CTF map. In many ways this is a good thing as it means that the community gets to play a variety of CTF styles. What I find really annoying is when a mapper criticises the work of another because they think the 'rules' have been broken. Variety and orginality is the key to a successful 'community mapping' scene and so, as mappers, we have a responsibility to promote freedom of design.

hmmm, yeah.. Its probably just my style of play
so... um... you win again :p

Dont get me wrong Plut, its not a bad map at all, I like it, its just those 2 things that bother me........

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by oozabooman
What do you mean about the daytime thing? The sky is all dark and the bridge is all bright. A little confusing.

A storm is approaching :D The sky has started to darken but there's still that weird brightness that occurs just before the sun fails to penetrate the clouds. At least, that was what I was *trying* to achieve. The resultant effect is why most mappers don't do daylight maps. Most pale textures tend to be very brightly lit by even the fainest light and clearly, I couldn't use pales lights with this theme.

You will note that the brightness and tone of the bridge matches that the strongly lit sections of the cliff. This was applied in order to achieve a degree of unity so that the bridge did not standout (though it must still on your computer :-( ). I even took the rock texture out of UEd and reduced the levels at the white end of the scale so that this texture didn't light so brightly.

This problem is further compounded by the fact that everyone's hardware setup and monitor configuration results in significant variation in the brightness and intensity of colours. While on my machine the colour balance of the bridge looks okay, it may not on someone else's. Regrettably, there is not a lot I could do about this problem. An open beta would help; assuming that, firstly, I had the time to run one (I didn't) and secondly, I could get a diverse range of testers (this can be quite difficult).

As I stated elsewhere in this thread ... I wanted to achieve a specific theme and am prepared to weather the storm (excuse the pun) of criticism for it. I appreciate your comments, if only so that I can use them to raise awareness of a common issue for mappers for UT2003/2004

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by MCCCXXXVII
You should really do something about your use of colors. The light on one side is really boring and washed out with a lot of white, and your textures on the other hand have a few trillion colors, resulting in creating a really messy look
Wheres the style and design ?
Gameplay is decent tho

Firstly, you are going to have to be more literal and specific in your comments. What you have written fails to be helpful. Please elaborate (after reading my previous post).

Secondly, style and design is about more than lighting! In fact lighting is only one small component of a much larger process of design. Otherwise, all maps would be beautifully lit, though poorly scaled boxes, with no gameplay :P

Thirdly, I apprecaite that you think gameplay is decent! That was my first priority for this and all my maps :D

[Angel_Mapper]

Originally posted by Plutonic
I am happy to accept that criticism ... I was trying to achieve a daylight look for the exterior and this lead to things getting a bit 'bright' in places ... on my rig it looks okay, but it may not on all computers. I just didn't want to make a map that - like so many others - is set either in the early morning or late afternoon or in the middle of the night. I realise 'times' allow for lighting that looks great, but I just didn't want to go there. So I made the decision to create a daylight exterior in the knowledge that some people would not like it because it does not fit the 'norm'. Again (a la my previous post), this criticism will most probably come from other 'community mappers'. I wasn't even talking about the exterior. That's actually the best lit area in the map. The interior however is just fugly. I don't know how you can't see that. :bulb:

There are places that are overblown white with no apparent light source. Meshes that are nearly pitch black with bright bsp right next to them etc. Lighting needs work. :p

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
I wasn't even talking about the exterior. That's actually the best lit area in the map. The interior however is just fugly. I don't know how you can't see that. :bulb:

Case in point!!


There are places that are overblown white with no apparent light source. Meshes that are nearly pitch black with bright bsp right next to them etc. Lighting needs work. :p

Rachel, you know how this works. The only way I can improve the map (or reply) is if you give me the detail. :-)

[legacy-Plutonic]

Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate comments about my maps, particularly if they are constructive and detailed. I intend to release an 101 version of this map when I find the time between my commerical LD work. :D

[Angel_Mapper]

You're acting like you're the only pro mapper in here. :p
Nevermind, if you're happy with the map then meh.

[legacy-[T_I]_Unreal_]

this map is one of your submissions for MSU Phase3?
Hurry up, only 3 hours left! :)

Map is solid, light is horrible, no contrasts in colours, shadows, saturation,... , architecture is solid, nice meshwork and terrain.
The only thing is, i don´t really like CTF maps... :)

[legacy-gimplar]

1. Why the Spider Mines? They dont belong in CTF :x

2. You can get stuck in the flagroom in places

Otherwise good job.

[Desp#2]

I like the layout a lot. I can see all the thought on this one. The flag room has so many windows that you can see your opponent come in for the flag easily which is great. But als the flag is smack dab in the middle which makes it easy to get it and run. A few good places to escape with good wall dodge… Once you pass the bridge half way you are almost set to victory. This is a map that like Plutonic said is more of defensive ctf map which I think is the most fun of ctf maps. I can see hours till you cap the flag if both teams managed to grab it in time and escape to the base. A lot of different entrances to the base it self so this balances it out pretty well. I like the flag room because of all the entrances and windows even on the middle of the ground you can see the guy who is taking a jump pad and expect that guy to trans up to the flag…

Cool design I like it a lot.

I few things I found which I am lazy to show pics of :| are things like getting stuck… luckily you have the translocator for that… Also some more blocking volumes in areas could have helped a bit but I am mostly ok with how smooth it was. Lighting well… It could have been better and perhaps have more contrast. Some areas seem a little bright and well it is not the greatest nor far from the worst I have seen. I think you should not worry about it unless you want to fix other bugs mentioned. Good note is that with this lighting you will be able to see the players perfectly.

Some weird things weapon and item layout wise were the health veils far far away on the lower terrain and the spider mines… Spider mines will kill this map I think if a completive player plays it. It gives around 4-5 spiders right? I forget per pickup… so if each team has that gun it will have a good bit of them… Flag room all the way I would say lol :)

I really liked the layout I think it works well. This map could benefit from some more beta testing specifically with people who play a lot of CTF to get minor things dealt with but I really dig the layout.

[legacy-Clanwarz]

Mirror - No Ads - No Registration - Just Pure Downloads (http://www.ut2004maps.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=494&ttitle=)

[legacy-SealClubber]

Yea, I like this design alot. Solid CTF map, I cant say about weapons placement - but this is how a CTF map should be made, no tight corridors, not needing a super powered graphics card tro run it... just a simple fun map! Not enough of these!


:up: :up: :up:

[legacy-NeoPhoenix]

I also notice the washed out lighting in the interior, though that has been mentioned enough. Another thing i've notice is that this map seems to increase and decrease the fps quite quickly in areas causing it to jump. I'm not sure if it is your map or the bug i've been reading about, but your map is the first map i've experienced this problem with. Once those to issues are fixed the map will be great, love the layout, just wish there was a way from the upper exterior to the grass with out hurting yourself. That would add for better game play imo.

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
You're acting like you're the only pro mapper in here. :p


For that I apologise, it was not my intention. I was just hoping for more detail in your feedback ... and I will welcome your (and anyone else's) comments any time you have the chance to post them :) I look forward to sorting out some of the concerns raised here in the next version of this map :D

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Desp#2
I like the layout a lot. I can see all the thought on this one. The flag room has so many windows that you can see your opponent come in for the flag easily which is great. But als the flag is smack dab in the middle which makes it easy to get it and run. A few good places to escape with good wall dodge… Once you pass the bridge half way you are almost set to victory. This is a map that like Plutonic said is more of defensive ctf map which I think is the most fun of ctf maps. I can see hours till you cap the flag if both teams managed to grab it in time and escape to the base. A lot of different entrances to the base it self so this balances it out pretty well. I like the flag room because of all the entrances and windows even on the middle of the ground you can see the guy who is taking a jump pad and expect that guy to trans up to the flag…

Cool design I like it a lot.

I few things I found which I am lazy to show pics of :| are things like getting stuck… luckily you have the translocator for that… Also some more blocking volumes in areas could have helped a bit but I am mostly ok with how smooth it was. Lighting well… It could have been better and perhaps have more contrast. Some areas seem a little bright and well it is not the greatest nor far from the worst I have seen. I think you should not worry about it unless you want to fix other bugs mentioned. Good note is that with this lighting you will be able to see the players perfectly.

Some weird things weapon and item layout wise were the health veils far far away on the lower terrain and the spider mines… Spider mines will kill this map I think if a completive player plays it. It gives around 4-5 spiders right? I forget per pickup… so if each team has that gun it will have a good bit of them… Flag room all the way I would say lol :)

I really liked the layout I think it works well. This map could benefit from some more beta testing specifically with people who play a lot of CTF to get minor things dealt with but I really dig the layout.

Thanks Rog :D

The spider mines were a bit of a gamble ... I just wanted to see how they impacted on CTF gameplay. Hopefully a great defense tactic. I thought it would also be cool to see a player attacking the base with four spider mines running ahead of them :up:

[legacy-CyberChrist]

I think layout is just fine (and the gameplay for that matter). Some players might think just the opposite, though...

[legacy-Hedge_o_Matic]

Funny that this map should be called "Confrontation".

I have to agree with the general gist of Plutonic's comments about what constitutes good gameplay. Trying for a new playing dynamic is a risky thing, as many in the community are dogmatic about what makes a good map. I have to applaud Plutonic for that. Nobody can say he does the same old thing each time.

[legacy-Plutonic]

Originally posted by Hedge_o_Matic
Funny that this map should be called "Confrontation".

LOL ... that is indeed very ironic :D

[legacy-Macoll]

Originally posted by Hedge_o_Matic
Funny that this map should be called "Confrontation".

I have to agree with the general gist of Plutonic's comments about what constitutes good gameplay. Trying for a new playing dynamic is a risky thing, as many in the community are dogmatic about what makes a good map. I have to applaud Plutonic for that. Nobody can say he does the same old thing each time.

+1 :up: :up: :up: ...very good reflexion on a real problem in the unreal community, thx for this...:D ;)

Often, people applaude for a remake, what a boring thing !!!! I am very please too see original map like this and by example CTF-Aedes...etc...CBP2 maps etc...