Fixed my crashes and lockups

[legacy-f.dub]

My succes story.

I wanted to share this with you. I've been lurking around these forums for quite a while, trying to find a solution to my constant crashes and hard lockups in UT2K4 (especially in ONS). I've read a few times how these crashes and lockups are due to hardware failure, not to the game itself. This turned out to be true.

Perhaps this will affect most others having no problems whatsoever in other games and programs. So basically, I reduced my memory timings. That's all there was to it. UT2K4 has been working flawlessly since (knocks wood).

Basically, I changed my settings from

CAS latency: 2.0
RAS to CAS latency: 3
RAS precharge: 2
Cycle time: 6

(2-3-2-6 was set by the SPD of my memory)

to

CAS latency: 2.5
RAS to CAS latency: 3
RAS precharge: 3
Cycle time: 6

(set manually)


My systems specs: (for comparison)


P4 3.2ghz
1024mb Corsair TwinX XMS 3200
ASUS P4C800 deluxe mobo
(generic brand) Radeon 9700 Pro (cat 4.5)
Hercules Fortissimo III 7.1

Maxtor S-ATA 120gb HD
(generic brand) 16x DVD-ROM drive

Windows XP Home SP-1



Hope this will help some of you (at least to know most problems with the game can be solved).

Good luck! :up:

[Folk]

Thanks for posting f.dub.

There are so many people that will stand on a stack of bibles and swear that their system is perfect and the problem is UT, and are too stubborn to admit that the problem might very well be with their own hardware. Maybe your post will cause some of them to re-evaluate.

[legacy-f.dub]

My pleasure. I've suffered long enough to get UT2K4 working correctly only to realise my hardware setup was actually the problem.

This said, the problem is still twofold. No system on Earth is foolproof and incapable of error (save for a 9000 series, of course). The fact that UT2K4 brings a well-balanced system to its knees due to slight discrepancies should not be applauded either.

On the other hand, UT2K4 really gets the most out of your machine and is definitely a reliable benchmark for overall stability.

"I've picked up a fault in the AE-35 unit."

OH SHI-

[legacy-NiTrOcALyPsE]

Originally posted by Folk
Thanks for posting f.dub.

There are so many people that will stand on a stack of bibles and swear that their system is perfect and the problem is UT, and are too stubborn to admit that the problem might very well be with their own hardware. Maybe your post will cause some of them to re-evaluate.

Amen. I've been getting GPF's for years, but for many others, a GPF was unheard of. Obviously it's my system and not UT2004, but unfortunately I can't change that, as this is the 'family' computer.

[legacy-Big_Iron]

Good info but one thing ... most n00bs should not have to play with any config's to run a game ... come on!

Many peeps have had some problems with the lastest patch, even me. I ended up getting some (3) GPF's after patching but have not had anything for the past 2 weeks for some reason.

I can o/c my machine but feel that it should not be required for an 'out of the box game'

[legacy-ving]

what he says is right... we shouldnt have to mess with our hardware to play the game. all other games work perfectly on the various machines used by forum users here so why doesnt ut04?

ist a software issue. its not drivers and such cause other games work. its not hardware cause other games work....

the only reasonable explanation is that it is the game that is stuffing up.

my ut04 was working perfectly on my machine and then without me changing ANYTHING it started getting freezes, rebooting my machine, etc...
i did nothing to make it do this, it did it itsself. no changes were made...
the patch was aleady installed 2 weeks before this happened.

what gives?

my guess is poor ram management by the game, but i know little of these things.

[legacy-Abaddon21]

=================ERROR=========================
BCCode : 1000008e BCP1 : C0000005 BCP2 : 00000000 BCP3 : EFD132D0
BCP4 : 00000000 OSVer : 5_1_2600 SP : 1_0 Product : 256_1

C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini060204-03.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\USER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER3.tmp.dir00\sy sdata.xml
==============================================

This is what the error report says. What happens to my system is when I enter a map, doesnt matter which map, the game locks up and I get sent to the blue screen of death. The game has serious memmory management problems, all I know is I am returning it to the vendor, I dont want to deal with something that the developers had to fix before putting this game out. The patch DID NOT help at all. And NO its not my system, I can run every game flawlessly its just UT2K4.

Here are my system specs:
P4 2.8Gighz HT
512 Ram
Nvidia GeForce 5600 64mb.

PS. The demo ran flawlessly, never crashed had fast loading times. Unless there is a solution for this within the next 3 days, looks like Atari has lost another customer. Great game idea, bad support is all I have to say.

[legacy-ScoobyDooby]

Whats the best way to change your ram timings?!?! in bios?!

[legacy-f.dub]

Originally posted by ScoobyDooby
Whats the best way to change your ram timings?!?! in bios?!

To my knowledge, it's the only way. And before you rush into action, make sure you know what you're doing. In other words: read the manual of your mobo (or look it up online, if you've lost yours). If you can't find the option anywhere (it's usually in your chipset configuration, as all these things are controlled by the chipset anyway), you may have to update your BIOS.

Once more: know exactly what you're doing before you do anything at all.

[Folk]

Originally posted by Abaddon21


This is what the error report says. What happens to my system is when I enter a map, doesnt matter which map, the game locks up and I get sent to the blue screen of death. The game has serious memmory management problems, all I know is I am returning it to the vendor, I dont want to deal with something that the developers had to fix before putting this game out. The patch DID NOT help at all. And NO its not my system, I can run every game flawlessly its just UT2K4.

Freaking remarkable. The whole thrust of this thread is to show that these types of errors are almost always user hardware problems, yet here goes another poster with "NO it's not my system". Get a clue. If you're getting BSOD's every time you start a map then guess what.... it's your freaking hardware !!!!!

YOU are the only one with this problem. How in the hell can you possibly think that the problem is with the game? How many people are posting with this problem? I'm not talking abou the occasional GPF here.... I'm talking about the problem exactly as you describe it. If you're the only one with the problem, or even if there are a handful of others with that problem, then how in the name of anything sane do you figure that the problem is with the game? Unfreakingbelievable...

Take off your blinders dude. The original poster said all his other games ran fine, but UT exposed a memory problem. Just because other games run OK and UT doesn't does not mean the problem is with UT. UT is just exposing a problem that's already there. Have you run every game in the world? Have you run every memory/cpu intensive process that exists? If not, then how can you say with a straight face that your system is without problems?

If just baffles the mind.

[legacy-ving]

and i pose the question how can you say it is not UT04? there are plenty of people out there that have BSOD problems... try searching the forum dood.

just because the game works for you and not him doesnt mean its his machine... it also doesnt mean that it isnt his machine.

everyone seems similar problems (sound, BSOD, crashes, etc) so take you blinders off and stop just looking at your machine and saying "yeah the games perfect so it must be you". It's far from perfect and very far from stable otherwise they wouldnt need to patch it. even then the patch seems to have created more problem than solved for some ppl.


gah! your idiocy astonishes me.

[legacy-beze]

Originally posted by ving

just because the game works for you and not him doesnt mean its his machine...


uhmm seems pretty clear to me

[Folk]

Originally posted by ving
and i pose the question how can you say it is not UT04? there are plenty of people out there that have BSOD problems... try searching the forum dood.

just because the game works for you and not him doesnt mean its his machine... it also doesnt mean that it isnt his machine.

everyone seems similar problems (sound, BSOD, crashes, etc) so take you blinders off and stop just looking at your machine and saying "yeah the games perfect so it must be you". It's far from perfect and very far from stable otherwise they wouldnt need to patch it. even then the patch seems to have created more problem than solved for some ppl.


gah! your idiocy astonishes me.

Ah yes.... another forum denizen with sub-par reading skills.

I didn't say the game was problem-free, Einstein. I did say that Abaddon21 has an obvious hardware problem.

Tell ya what pal... take a poll to see how many people are getting BSOD's with every map change, then report back with your numbers. Or maybe you can find the "we finally fixed the BSOD with every map change" entry in the latest beta patch change list, because surely a problem of that magnitude would be numero uno on Epic's 'to-do' list.

I'll wait here for your findings.

[legacy-f.dub]

Gentlemen (all of you, I presume), let's not get impolite over this.

I hope the intention of my original post is clear: I made a small announcement of the fact that my problems with the game in question had disappeared after a slight memory-related change in my system configuration.

I'm not speaking Bushman here, am I? Let's try the simplified version:

- you go inside computer-hut
- you turn on computer
- you lower RAM timi-- *ahum* numbers that are too small in computer memory thingy
- you try UT2K4
- it workey: you happy
- it no workey: you come here and flame



And now to answer the mother of all questions:


Is it the game's fault that my system fails?
See? I made it BIG and SHINY!!111

YES.


But, is it the system's fault that my game fails?
See? I made it BIG and SHINY as well!!oneoneone

YES.


Can it be solved?

YES, or at least: VERY LIKELY.

But how? I'm so confused right now.

Perform the above procedure and report back (or don't, if it actually works and you're too busy playing the game).



NO it's not my system

At least try it, for God's sake. See, even I solved it, thinking my system was "perfect". Maybe your memory is actually properly timed, then it could still be something else. Please, I'm asking politely (because frankly, this is the point where a normal person stops caring): differ your options.

At least try to make it work yourself. Patches are not magical swords to rid the world of the evil presence of BSODs, system crashes and whatnot. The game IS stable. Your system is not stable ENOUGH. The system is down, the system is down. Dum dum dum dum dududu dum dum dum.

What Folk said: get a clue.

[legacy-dARK13]

Sorry but im a n00b, how do you cahnge these settings? I hope this can me w/ my problem or back to the restore disks....... http://mindscraps.com/s/contrib/anym/behead.gif

[legacy-f.dub]

Read this article (http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/memory/memory_timings/index_3.shtml) by Techware Labs. A true eye-opener (in the non-painful meaning of the word).


Changing CAS latency from 2.5 to 2.0 gives a 0 to 0.002% increase in performance.

Yes, you read that right. So "lowering" it from 2.0 to 2.5 is not going to make your system go ape**** on you. On the contrary: SiSoft Sandra reported that my memory actually runs FASTER now that I've lowered the settings on my memory (meaning: increased the latency, calculated in internal clockcycles).

So, what I'm saying here is that my system actually runs better on the whole. Even in other games (which already worked perfectly). And UT2K4 is flawless.

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[legacy-dARK13]

So are these comands in console (Bro wants to know) or do i use a program

[legacy-f.dub]

Originally posted by dARK13
Sorry but im a n00b, how do you cahnge these settings? I hope this can me w/ my problem or back to the restore disks....... http://mindscraps.com/s/contrib/anym/behead.gif

There's no shame in not being able to perform this operation. And let's quit the whole "n00b"-business, we've all started somewhere. And I would personally be nowhere if it hadn't been for people that were being helpful towards me.

First of all, find your motherboard manual. Second, the procedure should be clearly explained in there. Since these settings vary from one manufacturer to another, I cannot help you specifically (unless we have the exact same mobo, of course, mine's listed somewhere above).

In case you've lost the manual: try and find a copy online on the manufacturer's website.

If you have a pre-built computer and you don't know much about what's inside your case: try contacting the assemblers. And build your PC yourself next time, it's an immensely rewarding hobby (and it's cheaper than having a PC pre-built).

If it turns out that you can't change your memory timings, look for an updated BIOS (updating a BIOS has become quite safe as of late, and can even be performed from within the Windows shell, sometimes).

If all else fails, report back.

That's all I can help you with momentarily. If you're totally lost, you can give me the exact specs on your system and I'll try and look it up for you. But I'm no living helpdesk, so do your homework first.


EDIT:


So are these comands in console (Bro wants to know) or do i use a program

Totally unrelated to UT2K4. These are system-wide settings set in the BIOS. If I am indeed speaking Bushman to you, find your motherboard manual. That should clear up a few things.

[legacy-dARK13]

Ok i found out what mobo i have, its an nvidia Nforce 2 motherboard, know do i do a google serach like "nvidia Nforce 2 motherboard manual"? or is there a place (nvida.com;ect) that i can get it ?



Thanks


-dARK-

[legacy-dARK13]

opps

[legacy-f.dub]

Originally posted by dARK13
Ok i found out what mobo i have, its an nvidia Geforce 2 motherboard, know do i do a google serach like "nvidia Geforce 2 motherboard manual"? or is there a place (nvida.com;ect) that i can get it ?

Well, to begin with, you most likely have an Nforce2 (since a GeForce2 is a video card -- ah, nostalgia). Then, I must admit, that's all I know of Nforce2 mobos.

EDIT: okay, glad we have that sorted out

I believe, though, that Nvidia (in the likes of VIA and Intel) is the manufacturer of the chipset. Not the whole board. So you may have to look up what board you have.

This page (http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html) has a handy list of motherboard manufacturers who most likely use the Nforce-chip in their designs.

Also, try and locate your actual manual. This will shed some light on the matter. Nothing like good old print.

[legacy-dARK13]

yea, well....eMachines isnt really that helpful :( i guess im screwed

[legacy-f.dub]

Originally posted by dARK13
yea, well....eMachines isnt really that helpful :( i guess im screwed

That's the wrong attitude, soldier. You're only screwed when you give up. Or smoke comes out of the case. Either way, that ain't happening.

Now, what do you know of your computer? Did you build it yourself? (very unlikely, I venture to say)

So, did someone build it for you? Did you buy it pre-built?

Find out and contact the manufacturer, whomever it might be. You're a paying customer (well, I hope you are). You have the right to know.

[legacy-dARK13]

i have a pre-bulit computer , Its an emachines T3265 with an AMD 3200+ proceesor ATI radeon 9800 pro (128mb) 512 RAM and a 150 GB HD. and the NFORCE chipset mobo w/e :-p



hey do you got AIM or something so we dont have to go to the fourms every singel reply?

[legacy-f.dub]

Originally posted by dARK13
i have a pre-bulit computer , Its an emachines T3265 with an AMD 3200+ proceesor ATI radeon 9800 pro (128mb) 512 RAM and a 150 GB HD. and the NFORCE chipset mobo w/e :-p


It's a FIC AU31.

Damn eMachines. It took me quite some googling to look this one up.



hey do you got AIM or something so we dont have to go to the fourms every singel reply?

No.

[legacy-dARK13]

ok cool ty

[Folk]

Be aware folks that not all motherboards allow you to change the memory timings. I doubt any Dell, HP or Compaq will allow it. For those that do allow it, it's usually found under the "Advanced Settings" area of your bios. For all memory timings, the lower the number, the more aggresive the settings. So if you're following f.dub's lead, you would change your current memory timings to a higher number than what you have now.

[legacy-dARK13]

Ok i finally found the manual,http://www.e4allinc.info/dir1/motherboards/socketa/au31_downloads.htm Now with the Bios.....lol....

[legacy-AuTo|J3di]

Any FIC Mobo ive ever owned have the option in bios to change memory timings.. much props to Via. you shouldnt have any problems..

[legacy-f.dub]

This said: please consider the fact that it might not help. I'm not handing you over The Holy Grail Of Making-UT2K4-Work, unfortunately. Like I said before: try various things and be fully aware of what you're doing.