DM-Shrapnel][2k3- Beta testers need- new screens added

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Shrapnel][ has jsut a face-lift, why don't you grafetti it with bullet holes & flak shards?

Credit to original author Cliffy B.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just loved DM-Shrapnel][ from ut so i had to stick it in the map pack i'm working on, not sure if many of you folk know about DM-Shrapnel][:weird: .

I also wanted to create a very industrial map, with lots of rusting metal in it and metal like sounds, so shrapnel has also been given that feel.

Please comments & feedback if you have any

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAAAAAYXNXDeGSDd0!gb5zdI*fq4OSxumJAvwLFJrpwYAvWS6 ZzyIA29s85lYvjf2UdHoekqLGObfjU1vyvoJvvjER!lBj1tXm6 WZJLhx4SIvOTm8Ik9ug/Shot00000.jpg?dc=4675453197002578892

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADOAgcXd3DeGSDd0!gb58lrYJWN!ZveTOVURM7x7UnSbFG2c hMPiMPs03AuOfzKyGFkzwDx1sZCRDq*2qaH7juILDbbK3VISx5 MPXObG2pge4Vat0VbFg/Shot00001.jpg?dc=4675453197024149172

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQBXAzgXLYDeGSDd0!gb5yrUaydSgIAJIu4Nlbz8fH9zZ0utZ AoDSiFD6KczkTE2WGBG2W4aqrmQCRC*LtS0tULdTv7ABikRWKX y7kPbzxL8JVZsg8r**Q/Shot000020.jpg?dc=4675453197046371651

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQASAzkXcIDeGSDd0!gb5!V1mmh1UvJ6wB7cshIKshE!I5iE3 44CD*vMnPQBRhef*FzDiX0oq1uKAKaoJsvC5wSGRRmOD9mMa*u 0wLaV0bWOvJNf!xtRQA/Shot000030.jpg?dc=4675453197066255759

enjoy

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-KaiRaene]

Busy Beaver! :) Looks good.

[legacy-CaNNoN]

So not going to release it individually? :cry:

[legacy-commander_keen1]

wow your quite the fast mapper :up:

[legacy-Fecal Marmaset]

yes, he is a fast mapper....................

















:D

[legacy-CyberChrist]

I love this guy very very much. :D

[legacy-[T_I]_Unreal_]

Yourman, looks solid, but next time you should use a own map idea and/or own Static meshes to stand out your map of the large crowd...

btw. it looks like my upcoming new map :D

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Soz for the late replys folks, i've been away for a week.

KaiRaene

Yup i'm a busy guy. Glad you like it:up:

CaNNoN

Yes, all maps for the map pack will be released indivually, but they won't be out until there all complete (2 left!)I'ii be contacting you soon for you to upload them to ut2003hq.com

Fecal Marmaset

I wouldn't really say i'm a fast mapper.............more of multi tasking.

I have two computers, one at my home and one down my g/f's where i live, that way i can work on two maps at once!


CyberChrist

LOL.........how did i know you was gonna say that?LOL:haha:


[T_I]_Unreal_

I wanna start to learn maya after the x-mas holidays, this map pack will also be the final re-makes, i'm already planning some custom work, one is a egyptian fortress.

Your up coming map????????got any shots i can take a look at? :weird:

Cheers for thew comments guys.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Yournan2000
I wouldn't really say i'm a fast mapper.............more of multi tasking.
Multitasking rules. ;)


Originally posted by Yournan2000
LOL.........how did i know you was gonna say that?LOL
You... You did? How?!? :D

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
Multitasking rules. ;)


You... You did? How?!? :D

Me's a psychic........................................... ...

Multitasking = more maps!

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Yournan2000
Me's a psychic........................................... ...

Me too. :D

Originally posted by Yournan2000
Multitasking = more maps!

No. Multitasking = more windows! :D

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
Me too. :D

No. Multitasking = more windows! :D

No less windows, i have two computers:p i do a map on each one, well looks like it back to work on DM-Grinder2k3:D

MsM

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Yournan2000
No less windows, i have two computers:p i do a map on each one, well looks like it back to work on DM-Grinder2k3:D

MsM
I have three computers... One computer = one window minimum. :D
As for the DM-Grinder2k3, I suppose you know what’s coming?...

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
I have three computers... One computer = one window minimum. :D
As for the DM-Grinder2k3, I suppose you know what’s coming?...

Yup i certainly do know whats coming up, DM-Grinder2k3 is the last of the maps for the map-pack.

All of these maps are in the pack, and have been improved from previous versions some way or another.

DM-Gothic2k3 (detailed with meshes from DM-Aristocracy)

DM-Arcane Temple2k3 (tweaked a few bits)

DM-1on1Oblivion (converted from the already existing CTF version)

DM-Shrapnel][2k3 (currently working on, re-build from scratch)

DM-Grinder2k3 (currently working on, re-build from scratch)

CTF-Obilvion (convert from DM version)

DOM-Cinder 2 (re-make of DOM-Cinder with a few differences)

And all of them have the original ut music and all have or will be throughly tested.

Only Grinder & Shrapnel][ need to be completed.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Yournan2000
Yup i certainly do know whats coming up, DM-Grinder2k3 is the last of the maps for the map-pack.
Then I see no point in saying it again. :D

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
Then I see no point in saying it again. :D

LOL

[legacy-Yournan2000]

DM-Shrapnel][2k3 is nearly finished, only 1 room & 1 corridor left to do.

I need some beta testers, if your interested in testing either P.M me or e-mail me dudelovehavemercy@hotmail.com

heres some new screens for you:-

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADLAgMXonDeGSDd0!gb50kxLb1PjxwMidPUvqYa9TgkaHq0b mR7kzmoWFZTKEhUeKPM2x5OJR5CwC!XvtqDzp2kB8suWR1kOIg uZ!5g3aJjdPeGy0xOcA/Shot00005.jpg?dc=4675454824108525384

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADUAgQX5HDeGSDd0!gb57DxV4KTnTAj*PNdsuYp3hxh3C0qt 0X!kwrrqXM2Qxpb18QDwwXAGOnkNFY2VYb!3Iop21VvgOULl4x Ce1MYY4a7hJ2Eu68nQA/Shot00006.jpg?dc=4675454824112279504

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADSAgUXJnHeGSDd0!gb5!T1hY8An4LheW1OT5O4cyQKdITSX GZZJcFDa0w!NOeYXIRcT*NW9wlVqLGCqHFuEO8ZPjzUdGHzmDb QGI0AcqfH4bziMNkIUQ/Shot00007.jpg?dc=4675454824115481640

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDSAjYX4oDeGSDd0!gb5zNga1HDOMa5LY74JEGR9XJbtIELm 5GJkQIVr22uwRM1FAC0MW19vaMTph9qRvpp*BUkrpurCcTaXmM !BahZAPaNAVG3DnxDOA/Shot000080.jpg?dc=4675454824118594696

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDTAjcXJYHeGSDd0!gb59rMR0v0HDI8QbYDwFDWrMNBg7ttk I0lQB2d0rNtJZ!Ulicrlrs24rc6HXLsrCC!Hg!!qEYeVWpOFAW gOPpZnZDEkUGU9DxDEA/Shot000090.jpg?dc=4675454824121696617

Enjoy, please post some comments.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-[ND] neoduck]

from the pics the lighting does look a very bland, with not much contrast. this to me is the biggest problem visually, as it just doesnt catch my attention what so ever.... washed out and boring

in the third pic on your last post... how is that fan acctually casting that shadow on the ground? envn though the light source is coming from a totally different place... doesnt seem to make sence.

the architecture looks good enough... if you were mapping for UT1. There isnt really any shape to it. its very boxy and square.

i think there is allot you could do with the map, esspecially work on the lighting. lighting can be fun if you give it some time, and a little though, and the results can really pay off. use contrasting colours, warm and cold. cast some nice shadows. do whatever to make it catch my attention.

good luck.

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by [ND] neoduck
from the pics the lighting does look a very bland, with not much contrast. this to me is the biggest problem visually, as it just doesnt catch my attention what so ever.... washed out and boring

in the third pic on your last post... how is that fan acctually casting that shadow on the ground? envn though the light source is coming from a totally different place... doesnt seem to make sence.

the architecture looks good enough... if you were mapping for UT1. There isnt really any shape to it. its very boxy and square.

i think there is allot you could do with the map, esspecially work on the lighting. lighting can be fun if you give it some time, and a little though, and the results can really pay off. use contrasting colours, warm and cold. cast some nice shadows. do whatever to make it catch my attention.

good luck.

I'ii agree wiht you in way, some lighting in some areas are a bit boring, no colour except plain lighting, can you tell which areas you think need working on?

Personally i think the architecture is fine, but remember this is a ut re-make so it will look like a ut map, sorta.

At the moment i think the areas with different colours look the best, personally i don't like the plain lighting, but red & orange lighting look nice and add warm but dark colour to it, personally i think blue it a cold colour but i don't really like the look of it ut2003.

Thx's for your comments and i'ii work on the lighting in the right areas.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-[ND] neoduck]

have a read of these lighting tutorials..... HERE (http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/tutorials.htm)

they're for UT1, but still very applicable to show what looks good with lighting. when i said 'boring lighting' it was not just refering to the colours. as it says in these tuts, try lowering the radius of some of those lights, but upping the brightness.... contrast! :P

point out which pictures? that first pic there, the whole room seems to be lit up with a montonous ambient lighting. no dark spots, no bright spots, no shadows. those spotlights are hardly making the ground any brighter, and somehow the rest of the room is overly bright, with no dark corners at all.

same with the second pic. even directly around the lights in the roof... its almost the same as the rest of the room. make a light right next to the light fitting, mabey 8 radius, but 120 brightness, then another one mabey 80 brightness but 25 radius (just an example...) Those white lights are a bit boring too, in the tuts is gives a good example of how to use subtle hues to achive a nice effect.

i'd really like to see you improve in this area, cause great lighting can really set the mood of a map!! keep it up :)

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by [ND] neoduck
have a read of these lighting tutorials..... HERE (http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/tutorials.htm)

they're for UT1, but still very applicable to show what looks good with lighting. when i said 'boring lighting' it was not just refering to the colours. as it says in these tuts, try lowering the radius of some of those lights, but upping the brightness.... contrast! :P

point out which pictures? that first pic there, the whole room seems to be lit up with a montonous ambient lighting. no dark spots, no bright spots, no shadows. those spotlights are hardly making the ground any brighter, and somehow the rest of the room is overly bright, with no dark corners at all.

same with the second pic. even directly around the lights in the roof... its almost the same as the rest of the room. make a light right next to the light fitting, mabey 8 radius, but 120 brightness, then another one mabey 80 brightness but 25 radius (just an example...) Those white lights are a bit boring too, in the tuts is gives a good example of how to use subtle hues to achive a nice effect.

i'd really like to see you improve in this area, cause great lighting can really set the mood of a map!! keep it up :)


LOL......I know how to do lighting mate, i have been mapping for a year!thx's anyway, but there is ut2003 lighting tutorials out there.

What you've said above is exactly i did to start off with, that then makes the center off the rooms very dark, in which they need to be lit. I'm not sure which shot you mean, when you say the 1st shot, do you the mean the 1st shot from the 2nd batch of screens?If so i don't think theres anything wrong with that one. 2nd shot i agree on, and i'm gonna work on that, its a bit too bright, however the lighting in that room is set to 44 brightness, 44 radius. The spotlight do make the ground brighter, but because they are spotlights they only have a small radius.

Again thx's for your comments, some like your self can be very constructive for a mapper.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-GIdenJoe]

Pic 1 and 3 really do seem equally lit everywhere.

Also pic 4 isn't really a seller coz you see like 2 inches of 2 identical walls :p

You may even be mapping for 10 years, if the lighting sucks, then the lighting sucks and you should work on it. Make the lights really shine and try to avoid pitch black spots too.

[legacy-MCCCXXXVII]

LOL......I know how to do lighting mate, i have been mapping for a year!thx's anyway

with such statement you say exactly how much you do know about it
in 1 year time the avg person understands about 10 percent of lighting, 1 year means absolutely far from anything at all, it takes years to learn and understand, name me one top mapper who didnt need at least 3-4 years to really learn things fully
can you give me 25 pages full of completely technical info about lighting, how it works, why it works, when it works, explaining exactly why something should be like it and not just saying "i see green light sir and its there because theres a green lamp and i placed it cause i thought green is a cool color"
including all colors, contrasts, highlights, ambients, sourcing, composition, texturecooperation, theme implementation, atmospheric and emotional lighting aspects, etc ? no ? then you know nothing about lighting

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by GIdenJoe
Pic 1 and 3 really do seem equally lit everywhere.

Also pic 4 isn't really a seller coz you see like 2 inches of 2 identical walls :p

You may even be mapping for 10 years, if the lighting sucks, then the lighting sucks and you should work on it. Make the lights really shine and try to avoid pitch black spots too.

Been working on screen 3, added some nice dim yellow lgihts with a small radius light and with coronas. That then breaks up the plain lighting, which i've deleted in any case but also adds more variation in the lighting in that room. Still need to work on pic 1 through........................................

shot 4 is just a small corridor........................................

Yeah i agree, if i have been mapping for years, the lighting sucks then it sucks, and thats why i've been working on it. I take it when you say make the lights shine, i take it you mean add coronas?


with such statement you say exactly how much you do know about it

I think you mis-understood me. What i mean is i know how to make lights correctly, i'm not saying i know everything about them and i can produce 25 pages on them, come to thing about it when did i say i know everything about lighting?????:weird: :weird:

Thx's for comments

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-GIdenJoe]

not only the coronas

You should use a lightsource close to the lamp with high brightness and low radius. And then add another light source further away from it having lower brightness but higher radius.

The center of a lightsource especially a lamp is extremely bright and then it has the area around that is not so bright and then gently falls off. Adding a corona also helps in that department.

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by GIdenJoe
not only the coronas

You should use a lightsource close to the lamp with high brightness and low radius. And then add another light source further away from it having lower brightness but higher radius.

The center of a lightsource especially a lamp is extremely bright and then it has the area around that is not so bright and then gently falls off. Adding a corona also helps in that department.

Roger that.

same lighting techinques i do myself, except i don't place another light further away from the light mesh, i'ii try it and see how it goes. Usually i just use a corona with a light near it.

Cheers

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-[ND] neoduck]

im curious to see if you've made any progress with the lighting.


Originally posted by Yournan2000
LOL......I know how to do lighting mate, i have been mapping for a year!thx's anyway, but there is ut2003 lighting tutorials out there.

tell me... did you even look at those tutorials? i know you can 'do lighting' in the technical aspect... throw in a light, and set its radius and brightness etc... but thats not why i directed you to those turoials. they give more of an asthetic guide to lighting, which is something you quite obviously need help in. If you did read though them, show us some improved lighting.

i agree with mr 1337 that a year of mapping is nothing at all. you may know the technical basics, and no-longer call yourself a 'noob', but that seems to me to be the most dangerous area imho. because allot of people stop trying to learn more and more at this stage. that just seems to be my observation... i may be wrong.

show us what you've done.

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by [ND] neoduck
im curious to see if you've made any progress with the lighting.



tell me... did you even look at those tutorials? i know you can 'do lighting' in the technical aspect... throw in a light, and set its radius and brightness etc... but thats not why i directed you to those turoials. they give more of an asthetic guide to lighting, which is something you quite obviously need help in. If you did read though them, show us some improved lighting.

i agree with mr 1337 that a year of mapping is nothing at all. you may know the technical basics, and no-longer call yourself a 'noob', but that seems to me to be the most dangerous area imho. because allot of people stop trying to learn more and more at this stage. that just seems to be my observation... i may be wrong.

show us what you've done.

I'ii get some screens up for you mate, glad you posted and paying some interest.

Well the rooms you mainly talked about i've been working on, now the room with the fan hanging down looked the worst so i've been working on that the most. Under the ramp way and walkway in front of the ammo i've place some small yellow lights, i've just used a corona for them as the yellow is very bright. Opposite them is a red light, using a corona and a light which has a low radius, but a dark colour. Above that high on the wall is the same yellow lights again.

Now for the shock room i've removed all the lights, and place the yellow lights in there, but i'm not happy as its too yellow if know what i mean, but i might place some green in there to spice it up.

BTW- I'm positive i've got some of your maps, did you make Augustnoon?

And no i didn't look at the lighting tutorial, i thought it was just basic stuff but now that you mention it i might take a peek. In your last post i think i took it the wrong way, i thought you was talking about how i don't know anything about lighting, obivously i was wrong.

Cheers for the interest and comments

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-[ND] neoduck]

yep, i made AugustNoon allong with a few UT1 maps, and some more in the works.

i'd like to see these improvements.

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by [ND] neoduck
yep, i made AugustNoon allong with a few UT1 maps, and some more in the works.

i'd like to see these improvements.

LOL.....:haha: :haha: . Augustnoon was one of the maps i had been looking at for lighting............

I'ii get some screens up later this afternoon.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Thew new lighting neoduck:-

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQAAAD0X2IDeGSDd0!gb570cUEB2DFQYxGdYnck0vBJHeGYSS o4Y5YxykGFJFgzNT1k3UDwFohAIQEKwP*juUUXdxcvwy6A!CHP Jlw4kkcEKA7Pv6dktiw/Shot000010.jpg?dc=4675456488657322294

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQD**z8XXYHeGSDd0!gb57eIgBtaq5O3N2DxYvBkw*UZmdBjv 99V!Ich7yWgkS7xSmEAhk0pPfpVtgN43ghWXHxNWlPICgQ3!Ma CsalwxoXFd2wi2ePi8A/Shot000021.jpg?dc=4675456488691025061

As you can see its a bit darker, and has more colour. Through i'm not happy with the red light corona and the lighting in that area.

Comments welcome

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-GIdenJoe]

still need lights with high brightness and low radii around the lightsources themselves. Looks like the floor is 3x more lit than the walls.

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by GIdenJoe
still need lights with high brightness and low radii around the lightsources themselves. Looks like the floor is 3x more lit than the walls.

Personally i think the red light needs more work, as you can see it not that bright there and the red corona needs a bit of work.

As for the floor, i guess is 3x more lighter because there are spotlights pointing down at the floor, but also because the fan projector makes it lighter in that area.

Again i'ii work on the radius's of the lights and see how it comes out.

MsM:up: :D

[legacy-GIdenJoe]

No it's the floor in general.

And if you want spotlights pointing down don't forget to use a cylinder light or non incidence near the floor to really bring out that round shape of a true spotlight towards the floor.

As for the "red lights": only use high brightness and very low radius for those as red is a hidious color to have in large area.

[legacy-Heisher]

Yournan, I agree with NeoDuck and GIdenJoe. Lighting is by far the hardest aspect of mapping to master IMO. Check out some of Akuma's maps (that's Rich Eastwood) for nice examples of lighting. It really is a massive learning process, and much slower than other aspects (such as layout design / modelling) of level design. You get some cool mappers who's levels are let down by lighting. An example of this I think is BR-Biohazard by Warbeast (who is a bloody cool mapper). Not enough contrast in there let's down an otherwise bloody nicely executed theme.

In those latest shots you posted, the lighting does seem a little samey. I mean, there isn't a whole lot of contrast. The area looks like it's had a light added in the centre with quite high brightness/radius and low contrast (ie: towards white). I think a good way to go about lighting is to start with the light sources themselves. Light them in a way you think they'd realistically project light and then when (if?) the total area is too dark, add a larger general light to the scene. Sorry if this sounds like someone talking down to you, it's not. Just trying to be helpful. Otherwise it would take 10x as long for everyone to learn and improve :)

And I'm not sure if this has been covered, but the fan is casting a shadow downwards, when there appears to be no light source about it. Keep it up man, good **** so far :)

[legacy-Yournan2000]

Originally posted by GIdenJoe
No it's the floor in general.

And if you want spotlights pointing down don't forget to use a cylinder light or non incidence near the floor to really bring out that round shape of a true spotlight towards the floor.

As for the "red lights": only use high brightness and very low radius for those as red is a hidious color to have in large area.

I've improved the red light.

Not sure what i can really do with the floor, maybe lower the brightness of the spotlights? i'ii try the cylinder light and see if that makes a difference.


Yournan, I agree with NeoDuck and GIdenJoe. Lighting is by far the hardest aspect of mapping to master IMO. Check out some of Akuma's maps (that's Rich Eastwood) for nice examples of lighting. It really is a massive learning process, and much slower than other aspects (such as layout design / modelling) of level design. You get some cool mappers who's levels are let down by lighting. An example of this I think is BR-Biohazard by Warbeast (who is a bloody cool mapper). Not enough contrast in there let's down an otherwise bloody nicely executed theme.

Agreed:up: . Lighting is more difficult than i thought, and isn't jsut the case of placing a light and playing about with the radius & brightness. I'ii check out some of Akuma's maps, i've got DM-Malevolence for the original UT, i'ii take a look at that.


In those latest shots you posted, the lighting does seem a little samey. I mean, there isn't a whole lot of contrast. The area looks like it's had a light added in the centre with quite high brightness/radius and low contrast (ie: towards white). I think a good way to go about lighting is to start with the light sources themselves. Light them in a way you think they'd realistically project light and then when (if?) the total area is too dark, add a larger general light to the scene. Sorry if this sounds like someone talking down to you, it's not. Just trying to be helpful. Otherwise it would take 10x as long for everyone to learn and improve

I'ii try the method your talking about and see how it goes, but i still think the spot lights have something behind the bright floor. And no doesn't feel your talking down to me, im' grateful for your feedback.


And I'm not sure if this has been covered, but the fan is casting a shadow downwards, when there appears to be no light source about it. Keep it up man, good **** so far

I've placed a light above the fan, just a light mesh and a corona no lighting near that at all. Glad you like it so far, thx's for your help.

MsM:up: :D