Real Online Player Stats!

[nighty]

I'm an admin for several UT99 servers and a UT2003 server for a gaming community of over 4500 people. Our UT2003 server goes empty most of the time, and I got curious as to how many people were playing online. I had heard that Epic is counting the BOTS as players, and when I went into the server browser it showed thousands of players online playing. Since almost all the UT2003 servers out there are dead as hell, I decided to do my own tally of real players online vs. players + bots as shown by the UT2003 server browser. I was pretty amazed at the actual online players that are NOT playing this game. Please bear with all the numbers.

UT2003 Real Stats (using in-game server browser)
Compiled 7-6-03
Between 8-830pm Central

Key:
Servers = # of game servers
Players = real players + bots (as shown in server browser and gamespy) NOTE: second number in parenthesis was a refresh/reping of the gametype to update the number right after my count.
Counted Players = actual number of human players on servers (no bots)

Deathmatch: Servers - 890 / Players - 1789 (1737) / Counted Players - 423

TDM: Servers - 463 / Players - 524 (496) / Counted Players - 203

DoubleDom: Servers - 28 / Players - 100 (94) / Counted Players - 17

CTF: Servers - 550 / Players - 1216 (1212) / Counted Players - 546

BombingRun: Servers - 117 / Players - 338 (341) / Counted Players - 160

Invasion: Servers - 55 / Players - 168 (142) / Counted Players - 93

LMS: Servers - 12 / Players - 27 (27) / Counted Players - 3

Mutant: Servers - 6 / Players - 14 (17) / Counted Players - 0 (so 3 came on after my count, lol)


Total Servers: 2121
Total Players - 4176 (4066) AVG = 4121
Counted Players - 1445

Bot Percentage: ~64%
Human Percentage: ~36%

*Gamespy: 2168 Servers / 4416 players (including bots ofcourse)

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

Gamespy showed UT2003 as the 7th most played game counting the bots, but I believe real world online numbers would place it between Tribes2 and Jedi Knight2 (about 14th, and only 3 games above Quake2). Just for comparison sake, UT99 showed as 11th with 2696 servers & 2620 players at the time of this little experiment.

This post isn't meant as a flame, and maybe someone has already posted something similar to this. It's just for educational purposes, and AFAIK I've not seen someone actually count up the real number of human players (yes, I have no life). I like this game alot, and it bums me out that there aren't more players, but I thought you'd like to know the truth about real online numbers. I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:

Edit: Typos

[legacy-MikeSobe]

Interesting... But I think that a good amount more people play UT2003 than that just not as much as UT. For instance I migh tplay UT2003 for 30-45 min then go to Warcraft III for 35 min then back to Ut2003. Other times I play UT2003 for 3+ hours straight. I wonder if Epic tracked the total number of IP's logged (different IP's ) in a week or two weeks what it would be.

[legacy-Tobbe]

This is obviously a hard nut to crack for Epic,to seperate the bots from the humans. :haha:


I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game.
Can just think of one thing that can be done if anyone feels low and the need to do something about the actual number of people playing,release a kickass mod!
Just look what Counterstrike was to Halflife,completely different kinds of games really but anyway.

[legacy-MoxNix]

Originally posted by Tobbe
This is obviously a hard nut to crack for Epic,to seperate the bots from the humans. :haha:



Yes, it's "difficult to make such major changes", "the code wasn't really written with such things in mind", "fixing it would require a major rewrite of the core code". :haha:

Another "difficult" thing for Epic is writing a config file parser that strips trailing white space. :haha:

[legacy-webmaster696]

nighty, i think the problem is that bf1942 (particularly DC mod) took a good portion of UT users away... for a while. i don't know if it is a lack of system power that keeps people away or what. bf1942 takes a good system to run good... so i don't know. whenever we have LANs, we can only play UT1 because half of the people can't play UT2003 on their systems.

[fuegerstef]

BF1942 has much lower System Specs to run the game at decent speed...

[legacy-anarkist]

and we musnt forget that bf1942 is more fun for longer periods of time etc.

dont flame me for that

but hopefully with the arrival on onslaught a lot of bf1942's audience will move onto ut2003. I can see it getting more popular than dm :D

[legacy-ErecT]

Its a shame that this game aint bigger... :(
The game rox but to many people find it hard to become good since its not all about aim and To many bugs and too ****ty maps. etc etc... People stoped playing... :(

Btw, ET is bigger then bf1942 atm. Atleast when I checked last. was like 80 more people playing ET (enemy territory) then bf1942..
Its a fun game but if U want a game to be about more then aim and tactics nothing beats UT2k3!

[fuegerstef]

Originally posted by ErecT
Its a shame that this game aint bigger... :(
The game rox but to many people find it hard to become good since its not all about aim and To many bugs and too ****ty maps. etc etc... People stoped playing... :(

Btw, ET is bigger then bf1942 atm. Atleast when I checked last. was like 80 more people playing ET (enemy territory) then bf1942..
Its a fun game but if U want a game to be about more then aim and tactics nothing beats UT2k3!

:) :up:

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by nightstormer


Total Servers: 2121
Total Players - 4176 (4066) AVG = 4121
Counted Players - 1445

Bot Percentage: ~64%
Human Percentage: ~36%

*Gamespy: 2168 Servers / 4416 players (including bots ofcourse)

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

Gamespy showed UT2003 as the 7th most played game counting the bots, but I believe real world online numbers would place it between Tribes2 and Jedi Knight2 (about 14th, and only 3 games above Quake2). Just for comparison sake, UT99 showed as 11th with 2696 servers & 2620 players at the time of this little experiment.

This post isn't meant as a flame, and maybe someone has already posted something similar to this. It's just for educational purposes, and AFAIK I've not seen someone actually count up the real number of human players (yes, I have no life). I like this game alot, and it bums me out that there aren't more players, but I thought you'd like to know the truth about real online numbers. I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:

Edit: Typos

:D We have been saying this for months but people just don't want to believe it :eek: :confused: . They invested in the wrong gametype. They should have focused more on team games that worked, like CTF which was UT :confused: but maybe those maps were just too difficult to make:eek:. Gameplay needs to be changed etc...:confused:

[legacy-If you see kay]

:cool: :up:
*me snickers*
BF1942 did take alot of ppl
Its more demading on a system to play than 2k3 so the old pc rule doesnt apply.
2k3 is just boring
After the shock of how beautiful it looked wore off and only gameplay remained it wasnt enough to keep ppl around.

[legacy-pRO_mOde//1*]

. I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:

Edit: Typos [/B][/QUOTE]

' I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:

Edit: Typos [/B][/QUOTE]

I dont think its a case of 'getting people playing this game', I think its more of a case of getting people to keep playing ut2k3 after they have had some experience of dealing with some of the current *******s playing this great game..

I would consider myself as a average player, my movement is pretty good and my aim is about the level it should be for the time ive been playing this game(which is over a year) but not a day goes past now where i dont get some idiot accusing me of cheating.

The worst thing about it is its NOT even noobs these days who are doing the accusing..its arrogant experienced players who think because they got skillz there is no way someone else could possible beat them unless they are using some sort of cheat..

Sorry about bringing up this **** about cheating( i know its been done to death on this forum) I just used this as one of the examples of the down side of this game which would turn people away from continuing to play it.

This forum is for people around the world who share a common interest in playing one of the best games around, yet if you look at many of the replies to peoples questions on this forum over the last few months, its not good..

The funny thing about this is these people who do nothing but complain and flame others for no reason what so ever, are the very people who complain that 'the community is dying' and they wonder why....:rolleyes:

Simple solution: To those people who have had enough of playing ut2k3 and h8 this forum.....LEAVE!! go play some other game and leave this forum and ut2k3 to people who love playing it and enjoy meeting others with simular interests.

There are sooooo many positive things about this game and the people who play it....its just a shame that some peeps always look for the negative sh!t :(

So this is the plan!!!

1, Get Epic to dip there hands in their wallets and rent us some nice new servers, say 5 NW and 5 insta..

2, Password the servers so only registerd users to this forum can play on them.

3, Use 2 servers strickly for newbies ONLY!! nw and insta... with some training and tips for them.

4, 6 other servers ( 3 NW and 3 insta) could be used to simply play on by this forums more experienced members.

And finally the 2 servers left, 1 nw and 1 insta, could be used for HARDCORE players.. in other words 2 servers where if you aint got some serious skillz to bring to the table..dont bother


So plz Epic if eu reading this, i finish work at 6.00pm today so if you can get these servers sorted by then, that would be great thx..:D :D :D :D



mÒde«1*

[legacy-TheQuixote]

I think this shows they wasted a lot of time on things like invasion, mutant, LMS and DDOM that could have been put to better use making playable TDM BR and CTF maps. Wasted a lot of time on some really beautiful maps that just don't play for a damn as well.

Working stats and a not so flaky netcode could have went a long way as well.

[legacy-TheQuixote]

I think this shows they wasted a lot of time on things like invasion, mutant, LMS and DDOM that could have put to better use making playable TDM BR and CTF maps. Wasted a lot of time on some really beautiful maps that just don't play for a damn as well.

Working stats and a not so flaky netcode could have went a long way as well.

Sorry..... looks like editing my post caused it to double up. :/

[legacy-Cold Dog]

Originally posted by pRO_mOde//1*
. I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:



I dont think its a case of 'getting people playing this game', I think its more of a case of getting people to keep playing ut2k3 after they have had some experience of dealing with some of the current *******s playing this great game..

I would consider myself as a average player, my movement is pretty good and my aim is about the level it should be for the time ive been playing this game(which is over a year) but not a day goes past now where i dont get some idiot accusing me of cheating.

The worst thing about it is its NOT even noobs these days who are doing the accusing..its arrogant experienced players who think because they got skillz there is no way someone else could possible beat them unless they are using some sort of cheat..

Sorry about bringing up this **** about cheating( i know its been done to death on this forum) I just used this as one of the examples of the down side of this game which would turn people away from continuing to play it.

This forum is for people around the world who share a common interest in playing one of the best games around, yet if you look at many of the replies to peoples questions on this forum over the last few months, its not good..

The funny thing about this is these people who do nothing but complain and flame others for no reason what so ever, are the very people who complain that 'the community is dying' and they wonder why....:rolleyes:

Simple solution: To those people who have had enough of playing ut2k3 and h8 this forum.....LEAVE!! go play some other game and leave this forum and ut2k3 to people who love playing it and enjoy meeting others with simular interests.

There are sooooo many positive things about this game and the people who play it....its just a shame that some peeps always look for the negative sh!t :(

So this is the plan!!!

1, Get Epic to dip there hands in their wallets and rent us some nice new servers, say 5 NW and 5 insta..

2, Password the servers so only registerd users to this forum can play on them.

3, Use 2 servers strickly for newbies ONLY!! nw and insta... with some training and tips for them.

4, 6 other servers ( 3 NW and 3 insta) could be used to simply play on by this forums more experienced members.

And finally the 2 servers left, 1 nw and 1 insta, could be used for HARDCORE players.. in other words 2 servers where if you aint got some serious skillz to bring to the table..dont bother


So plz Epic if eu reading this, i finish work at 6.00pm today so if you can get these servers sorted by then, that would be great thx..:D :D :D :D



mÒde«1*

good post! :up:

[legacy-DoubleTRANCE]

good post:up:

[legacy-Happy_Hamburger]

You probbley find that they have employed Mystrail so they can make some really good bots so players woul think there live people and trick them :)

[virax]

One of the best threads in a long while. :up:

Yet it's quite sad. :(

[koopa]

Originally posted by pRO_mOde//1*
I would consider myself as a average player, my movement is pretty good and my aim is about the level it should be for the time ive been playing this game(which is over a year) but not a day goes past now where i dont get some idiot accusing me of cheating.

The worst thing about it is its NOT even noobs these days who are doing the accusing..its arrogant experienced players who think because they got skillz there is no way someone else could possible beat them unless they are using some sort of cheat..

Good post... UT had a much wider range of skills - from newbies to top players. I think maybe UT2K3 has a different set - some newbies who don't realise just how good some guys are, and a lot of people who were pretty handy UT players who are now getting their asses handed to them. Pretty much human nature to accuse people of cheating, 'cos it's easier than admitting to being crap.

This probably isn't an opinion anyone else shares, but I reckon Epic catered to the pro players too much, if anything - which partly explains why nobody is playing it.

[legacy-FikusErectus]

This has been going on for months. Too many bots in servers, and not enough real people.

I remember starting a thread back in December about this. Some jerk that probably doesn't even play UT2k3 any more flamed me for bringing this up.

Now hopefully Epic understands the mistakes they made and will make MAJOR improvements in 2004 and bring back some fans.

I'm not holding my breath. I won't buy 2004 until more people play this game.

[legacy-TseTse]

now do the same for the comparison game, including taking out the Tactical Ops/mod players for UT... *cough* and the equivilent for other games.

you also need to take more than one snap shot. each game has difference ranges of player counts across 24 hours, and ut/ut2k3 tends to actually peek a tad later than most other games (like midnight est). snapshot counts will differ by the 1000s merely depending on time of day. one snap does not make proper analysys...

finally, ALWAYS line up your figures with more than one source. use ASE and csports.net for comparisons, just to keep your figures relatively "true."

trust me, i religiously follow these online stats (for several years now) and have aced graduate level stats at the nation's top social science school :D

you'll find ut2k3 is actually neither doing as well as the surface figures show but also not nearly as bad as the critics/whiners suggest.

[legacy-webmaster696]

Originally posted by TseTse
you'll find ut2k3 is actually neither doing as well as the surface figures show but also not nearly as bad as the critics/whiners suggest.
no, you are just in denial. last time i went to go play a match of UT2003, only about 25 CTF servers appeared with no bots filtered and real servers.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by nightstormer
I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:

Edit: Typos

it's very simple to me...

ut2k3, for a range of reasons, is about Instagib and DM. it's actualyl perfectly FINE for competition, within that framework, too.

look at the online stats across all the games, and the following i think becomes very clear.

1. trend is going towards BIGGER and crazier pubbing (NOT towards smaller, more "1337 skillz0r" gameplay)

2. PUBBING with room for random "cowboy" action accounts for the vast majority of online action at any moment.

3. ctf and objective-based gametypes are the predominant ones online, NOT dm

all considered, there's some tensions here, imho. on the one hand, UT2k* is known as a very splash oriented game, yet instagib has turned into the primary server setting.

imho, ut2k3 is current KING of Deathmatch, and instagib is added victory for the crack head style fraggers.

for many gamers/owners of ut2k3, i personalyl believe they just cannot find enough fast, active servers running the kinds of stuff that they want.

honestly, then, if server admins want to HELP... stop friggin running dm/instagib servers. we have enough of them...

we do NOT have enough active, NON-IG servers for ctf, br, dom.... especially ones running custom maps.

look at UT servers. the action is the opposite as ut2k3. it's mostly base ctf, compared to IG DM in ut2k3.

ut2k3 has fit like a glove the small DM niche community... while the rest of the community has uninstalled ut2k3 to go play BF1942, etc

the solution is NOT to just do more of the same... and wait for ut2k4 (although that could work, as well)

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by webmaster696
no, you are just in denial. last time i went to go play a match of UT2003, only about 25 CTF servers appeared with no bots filtered and real servers.

please dont even start flaming me, if you know me you know that isht doesnt work and invites making you look like a retard.

thanks.

and no, i am not in denial or avoiding facts.

ut2k3 ctf certainly isnt a success, but neither is it a total failure. that's my point. nothing more, nothing less.

[nighty]

you also need to take more than one snap shot. each game has difference ranges of player counts across 24 hours, and ut/ut2k3 tends to actually peek a tad later than most other games (like midnight est). snapshot counts will differ by the 1000s merely depending on time of day. one snap does not make proper analysys...

finally, ALWAYS line up your figures with more than one source. use ASE and csports.net for comparisons, just to keep your figures relatively "true."I guess I should have qualified my little study by first stating it is completely unscientific. It was just a quick and dirty analysis which attempts to show the trend of this game to show bots as "online players." I'm sure you are right, that there are more and less players on depending on the day, time of day, etc. But I did the study at 8pm Central Time, which is at least evening time for most of the USA. You would expect alot of gamers to be on at this time (I know I am). The player count may be dynamic and dependant upon several conditions, but the bot count should be relatively static, since they don't ever quit playing like humans. :D

I think the results are conclusive enough for what they were intended to show. If anyone doubts it, just go into the game and look at the player count for yourself (vs what the server count shows including the bots). I just wish more people enjoyed this game like we obviously do. I know I have personally spent countless hours on setting up the server, compressing and uploading custom content, etc. It's pretty depressing to spend all that time and effort and have a server go relatively unplayed. :sour:

[Tasties]

I think that once most gamers have 2.4 's and something comparable to a g4 ti4600, this game will be pretty popular. I just think its real demanding and most people cant get the smooth performance like they can with those other games mentioned. To me the game is pretty unenjoyable on lower specs, but the best game out there with a real nice pc. I personaly think the recomended specs should have been more around 2.4 and min specs should be around 1 gig. I really cant even imagine how anyone could even play this game on a computer with a 1 gig processor, even with a 9800 or a 5900ultra.

[legacy-Tycho]

Very good post Nightstormer. Haven't seen you around before so nice to meet you.

Unfortunately this has been a problem since the end of the demo days.

I wrote an article on this back at the end of last year when the community was trying to get Epic to fix the Server Browser bugs (I should have brought that up with Mark Rein the other day, my bad).

Unreal Ops: Where is everyone at? (http://www.unrealops.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=12)

Now the arguement from Mark to me in response to this was "At this point when UT1 was out the player base was about the same." That was an acceptable answer back then but the truth is we are fast coming up on the 1st anniversary of UT2003 and the player count isn't even HALF of what UT1 was at a year.

I am very much hoping that UT2004 will bring in some new players (which I think it will) but the truth is that a lot of cool games will come out around the same time that are going to eat up online players (Halo PC and Half Life 2).

I can honestly say I like the changes Epic is making but I fear that it may be too little too late.

:(

EDIT: Tse Tse for the first time ever I would have to disagree with you. I have tracked the player stats morning, noon and night before. Night's numbers are very close to the truth. The fact remains: 1) there are twice as many Euro players as US and 2) most of the servers are running crap Mods or maps that don't do the game justice.

:(

[legacy-[Z]Mòó§ë]

An easy way to get a good aprox. of how many real people are playing 2k3 online is to use All Seeing Eye (ASE). Just tell ASE to refresh all the 2k3 servers then do a ctrl+a to select them all and on the bottom left corner of the program you will see some numbers. The number of "visible" players is the total number of REAL people playing the game. It also counts the number of servers and the number of "Epic Players" (read bots+players = shady way to boost your game stats and lie to the world about how popular your game is) and it also counts the number of "slots" available for players.

Tycho - Mark is paid to promote the game and will say anything to sell the game and I'm sure telling anyone that 2k3 is doing worse than UT ever did wouldn't be a good thing so of corse he will tell you something like "its doing just as well as UT did in sales". While there may be some facts to support his statment (which I'd love to see) the truth is not many people play 2k3 online compared to UT. Its not because bf1942 or ET either. People play those games because they have fun playing them. If 2k3 was fun to play they'd play it instead. Thats my $0.2

[legacy-chaodyn]

Originally posted by Tycho
... The fact remains: 1) there are twice as many Euro players as US and 2) most of the servers are running crap Mods or maps that don't do the game justice.

:(

My thoughts exactly. When I want to play it's late and I have maybe an hour, and it's hard to find a NW server with no xloc, no lowgrav, or some lame mod that has decent maps.

[nighty]

Very good post Nightstormer. Haven't seen you around before so nice to meet you. Thanks. :) I came around alot before and during the demo days, and right after the release of the game. Shortly thereafter the flaming and stupidity got a little much, so I didn't drop by to often except into the server admins forum. Nice to be back. :up:

[legacy-FluXs]

maybe Epic think the contest will bring more people, and in running a compo a CS beater mod in terms of people who play it will be found :)

[legacy-zeroskillz]

Well I can't really rely on this thread, because cross checking Gamespy numbers and ase numbers, comes up very different. When I look up the amount of servers Ut2k3 has on ASE, it shows 4408, but on Gamespy.com/stats it shows 2194. The same thing occurs when I crosscheck player numbers, ASE shows 9559, and Gamespy shows 4508. Now considering your numbers are right, you must not be seeing alot of servers, I'm sure ase doesn't just lie about ~2000 servers, and if it doesn't, maybe that's where your other couple 1000 players are, dunno.

-zeroskillz

[nighty]

I was using the built in UT2003 server browser, which is what I would surmise most of the people who play online use to find a game. ASE wasn't freeware the last time I checked, but it's really irrelevant. I think most players expect the game browser to accurately show the servers and players. I run several UT servers, and by default every single one reports to the Epic Master Server. I'm not sure why ASE sees servers that Epic doesn't, but whatever. Even if ASE is right and every other reporting service is wrong, the same numbers would still apply as far as the human/bot ratio. Following the reasoning I used earlier and using the ~36% for the amount of human players, your 9559 would drop to 3441 real human players.

[legacy-SotN]

maybe ASE sees servers that aren't advertised, and goes by the ones that have the UT2 port open and responding. there are quite a few of those.

[legacy-DrSinister69]

Alot of original UT players are playing UT2003 now. I've been playing for a few years myself and people still beat me at times. I don't play nearly as much as I did the first year with the original UT. I see and feel differences in the gameplay of UT2003 from the original.

Personally I can't stand the F'n lightning gun, the recharge thing sucks. With a rifle I could kill three more people in the time it takes for that to recharge. The rifle for me was better for long range, mid range, short range shots, across the board. Lightning gun seems like a slow cumbersome POS that blows in very fast close combat. I play on servers where they have the rifle mod and people with lightning guns go down like bowling pins. There's a no camping policy on most of them, you'll get kicked. It's fun.

Anyway, back to the point, UT was a great game and UT2003 is a very good game with some differences.. good and bad.. in gameplay and no doubt better looking graphics.

[legacy-eon5]

man... we dont need to be "genious" to understand that UT2k3 was born-dead.

just play it if you can and wait for UT2k4 and UnR2 XMP...

[legacy-FikusErectus]

This is a little off topic for this thread, but most of the maps that shipped with the game just plain suck. Epic/Atari need to hire some top notch map makers.

Why is it that the community makes better maps than Epic? Maybe Epic felt rushed to get the game out in time, so they rushed on the maps.

I changed topic a little bit, but I had to get that off my chest.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by Tycho

EDIT: Tse Tse for the first time ever I would have to disagree with you. I have tracked the player stats morning, noon and night before. Night's numbers are very close to the truth. The fact remains: 1) there are twice as many Euro players as US and 2) most of the servers are running crap Mods or maps that don't do the game justice.

:(

actually, i dont disagree with those statements one bit. i DO think big claims about ut2k3 being EITHER a massive online success OR a total failure... are both totally wrong.

10pm est, monday night... using _All Seeing Eye_, i count 3717 with bots filtered out (more than half on IG servers, half are DM).

since i do not have ut installed atm, i cant use ASE for it. however, let's look at UT stats for this same moment with csports.net and gamespy... since apparently folks only care about ut vs ut2k3 here... which is kinda boring, imho anyways...

UT has 2898 players, 1000 being ctf, 742 being TO (gamespy)
UT has 2848 players (csports.net)

and NO, those are NOT BOTS in the 3700 ut2k3 players i see...

it's a matter of perspective. is UT2k3 the success online that we want it to be? no, i dont think so...

presonally, i do think a lot of the OWNERS of ut2k3 are prepared to play mods online. i have no idea what % of owners who do not play regularly will jump on the ut2k4 bandwagon, but it could be a larger #.

let's not forget that more people bought ut2k3 than ut... and the engine itself has taken on a whole amount of serendipity that the original just did not have...


so, it's again, a matter of perspective. fighting over numbers gets really silly, fast...

EDIT:

csports.net has a particularly useful set of stats with the "players in last 31 days" section. they track actual names/aliases, not proper IDs of some objective sort... but it is still interesting rough snapshot

csports.net stats - 10:09pm est

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672

UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539

i.e. they are pretty close, with TA being a massive % of the continuing UT player base...

EDIT2> i read this as saying "PLEASE RUN MORE BASE/NW BOMBING RUN AND CTF SERVERS FOR UT2k3" :up:

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by TseTse
actually, i dont disagree with those statements one bit. i DO think big claims about ut2k3 being EITHER a massive online success OR a total failure... are both totally wrong.

10pm est, monday night... using _All Seeing Eye_, i count 3717 with bots filtered out (more than half on IG servers, half are DM).

since i do not have ut installed atm, i cant use ASE for it. however, let's look at UT stats for this same moment with csports.net and gamespy... since apparently folks only care about ut vs ut2k3 here... which is kinda boring, imho anyways...

UT has 2898 players, 1000 being ctf, 742 being TO (gamespy)
UT has 2848 players (csports.net)

and NO, those are NOT BOTS in the 3700 ut2k3 players i see...

it's a matter of perspective. is UT2k3 the success online that we want it to be? no, i dont think so...

presonally, i do think a lot of the OWNERS of ut2k3 are prepared to play mods online. i have no idea what % of owners who do not play regularly will jump on the ut2k4 bandwagon, but it could be a larger #.

let's not forget that more people bought ut2k3 than ut... and the engine itself has taken on a whole amount of serendipity that the original just did not have...


so, it's again, a matter of perspective. fighting over numbers gets really silly, fast...

EDIT:

csports.net has a particularly useful set of stats with the "players in last 31 days" section. they track actual names/aliases, not proper IDs of some objective sort... but it is still interesting rough snapshot

csports.net stats - 10:09pm est

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672

UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539

i.e. they are pretty close, with TA being a massive % of the continuing UT player base...

EDIT2> i read this as saying "PLEASE RUN MORE BASE/NW BOMBING RUN AND CTF SERVERS FOR UT2k3" :up:


Surely you do not believe those numbers for UT2k3 :confused: :p and people have pointed out before that there is some kind of error regarding using ASE the way you do. Don't know if that is true but those numbers are not :eek: :confused: :D

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
Surely you do not believe those numbers for UT2k3 :confused: :p and people have pointed out before that there is some kind of error regarding using ASE the way you do. Don't know if that is true but those numbers are not :eek: :confused: :D

yea, ive participated in those discussions for like 9 months now...

there are several Bot settings in ASE, one works (kinda) and one doesnt work at all. NO means of removing/finding bots for games is perfect when it comes to public lists, and likewise we should also remember these are just the advertised servers (although i suspect the # of truly private ones are insignificant)

bottom line: people need to stop with their presumptions and reading everything through their emotions

look at the stats at the END of my post, start discussion there. thanks.

[legacy-TseTse]

let me take those stats above and pull out some more meaningful breakdown... and interpretations

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672


* CTF +- 150k
* DM +- 140k
* Other +- 100k


UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539


* CFT +- 160k
* DM +- 120k
* Other +- 190k


Adding categories isnt wise, so ive taken the larger number as rough benchmark when combining more than one.

Fact of the matter, with a rough sketch, UT and UT2k3 are similar in terms of the online player activity, with UT having a rather powerful mod keeping things really busy (although notice about as many people played UT2k3 BR as played UT DM).

These, imo, are signs of where growth can be expected and where UT2k3 isnt garnering the team-play base and MOD base that UT has over the years.

Also, let's remember... UT has a very special place in peoples' hearts and a large portion of its fan base just will not stop playing it, no matter what they are offered. The same type of core crowd can be found with Tribes1, Quake2, etc. IMHO, that is a testament to those games and doesnt detract from the sequels one bit...

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by TseTse
yea, ive participated in those discussions for like 9 months now...

there are several Bot settings in ASE, one works (kinda) and one doesnt work at all. NO means of removing/finding bots for games is perfect when it comes to public lists, and likewise we should also remember these are just the advertised servers (although i suspect the # of truly private ones are insignificant)

bottom line: people need to stop with their presumptions and reading everything through their emotions

look at the stats at the END of my post, start discussion there. thanks.

You cannot trust the csports 31 day tally because you must assume that if they are counting ut2k3bots in their daily stats then they are using that in their 31 day tally. Perhaps they should add ping and remove the players whose pings are 0. But that probably can be faked as well.:eek:

You post that:
UT2k3 ctf: 150,308 players for the month and that
UT ctf: 160,056 players for the month

But most people that play the game seem to believe that UT2k3 CTF is almost dead compared to UT ctf :eek: :confused:

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
You cannot trust the csports 31 day tally because you must assume that if they are counting ut2k3bots in their daily stats then they are using that in their 31 day tally. Perhaps they should add ping and remove the players whose pings are 0. But that probably can be faked as well.

You post that:
UT2k3 ctf: 150,308 players for the month and that
UT ctf: 160,056 players for the month

But most people that play the game seem to believe that UT2k3 CTF is almost dead compared to UT ctf :eek: :confused:

you really believe peopel made up 100,000 bot names? lol

edit: personally, when i see these numbers, i still have a hard time believing so many people are playing ut2k3 ctf... but these figures are again, rough... and merely mean that the stats collection system tagged unique aliases online... although they may perhaps be just 5 minutes a month...

[legacy-C-MOS]

Sadly, I don't think that there's much admins can do at this point. Epic should still be trying to fix some serious issues with online gameplay. For example:
I'm so tired of getting the server list, wich tells me that so many people are on a certain server, but when I join tha game there's noone there. UT never did this bull. I want some real numbers, somewhat accurate, not numbers from 2 hours ago.

Also, in UT, I could join 20 to 30 servers all running the same cool map known as facing worlds. Same thing for Lava Giant.

Sadly, the new face sux(Oh my how it sux), and the new Lava didn't take off because it was released in a free addon pack. By the time Lava2 was out, people were tired of facing all the new and unneccesary bull that ut2k3 made them deal with.

And I still don't understand why Epic changed the feel of the game. It's not bad, but UT had the best feel eva.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by C-MOS

And I still don't understand why Epic changed the feel of the game. It's not bad, but UT had the best feel eva.

perhaps folks should consider the possibility that if it was THE SAME, then even less people would have bought it and would be playing it.

i.e. MOST fans of unreal actually didnt want the same things that a small group of people are whining about. perhaps...

heck, MOST ut fans dont even play ut religiously anymore.... now there's a "statistic" to think about.

[legacy-Tycho]

Guys let me rephrase this in a different way. It is 12:20am and doing a search for populated servers then down to quality (CTF) servers. There are maybe 45 out of 537 servers that have more than 5 people in them. Out of that most are InstaBleh servers. Out of that there are only 5 custom map servers with players in them.

Where are all of these CTF players your stats program is tracking? I am not calling you a liar or anything I am just saying something doesn't add up. It nevers has. However there are more CTF players now than 4 months ago. So there is a little light right now.

However that may have to do with what Moose said at the ProU forums. The game is cheaper now and people have better rigs thanks to Christmas. While this is good for players now I wonder what is going to happen when it comes time for Halo PC and HL2. Epic has a good shot at a head start if UT2004 comes out before September. If it doesn't I will worry a little but hey then again they still have us loyal fanboys.

:)

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by Tycho
Guys let me rephrase this in a different way. It is 12:20am and doing a search for populated servers then down to quality (CTF) servers. There are maybe 45 out of 537 servers that have more than 5 people in them. Out of that most are InstaBleh servers. Out of that there are only 5 custom map servers with players in them.

Where are all of these CTF players your stats program is tracking? I am not calling you a liar or anything I am just saying something doesn't add up. It nevers has. However there are more CTF players now than 4 months ago. So there is a little light right now.

However that may have to do with what Moose said at the ProU forums. The game is cheaper now and people have better rigs thanks to Christmas. While this is good for players now I wonder what is going to happen when it comes time for Halo PC and HL2. Epic has a good shot at a head start if UT2004 comes out before September. If it doesn't I will worry a little but hey then again they still have us loyal fanboys.

:)

look at what i see in ASE. not saying it makes sense to me either, cuz i do NOT find many non IG ctf servers, generally.

yup, i see about 15+ truly active ctf servers atm. and most are IG... which is EXACTLY why i simply have no reason to play UT2k3 atm.

but honestly... that's kinda besides the point.

id agree that ut2k4 might be a little late (december). most of the people i know who BOUGHT ut2k3 just do not play it. and NO, it's not cuz of some stupid friggin debate about ut vs ut2k3. MOST FANS of ut just dont play either anymore.

online gamers have, frankly, grown BEYOND old school ut/q3a gameplay. ut2k4 steps in with the original Unreal Warfare vision...

but yea, you got breed, stalker, planetside, haloPC, hl2/tf2, on and on and on... along with Battlefield1942 and it's ever-growing mods (DC, EoD, etc).

personally, ive said this since the DEMO... i thin ut2k3 was way too DM and splash oriented... i.e. too old school.

it has one hell of a bad taste in the mouth for most gamers who kinda stereotype the whole ut/q3a gameplay now, and it's gonna be hard for ut2k4 to break that and build the confidence needed to garner a massive player base.

THEN AGAIN, on the flip side... look at UT atm. TA pubbing is its driving force (not 1337 competition matches lmao).

mods WILL bring people back to ut2k3, that i have NO doubt about.

the question is whether or not they stay... and go with the flow into ut2k4 with bigger/better action.

[legacy-BaudGnarly]

I was driving home from work today wondering: "Does anybody f***in realize that every UT2k3 server is just a bunch of bots?!?!"

I guess some of you have started to take notice!

The fact is, I have a killer rig to play this game on. I'm talking 1600x1200 res with 4xAA and 16xAS. It's bleedingly beautiful. But I never play online anymore because I'm not a big IG fan and playing the Adept/Masterful bots in CTF and BR is much more fun.

I really hope they take some bits of BF and remix them UT style and make a super hardcore vehicle/terrain based team game for 2004. Or hopefuly, as some people have been saying, there will be an awesome CS style mod to grab a ton of players.

.... oh well... I'm gonna go play some Desert Combat for 2 hours :rolleyes:

[legacy-If you see kay]

GO UT GO!
YOU CAN DO IT!
5- YR OLD GAME
MOST THE PPL WE HAD LEFT FOR BF1942:(
your lucky 2k3:mad: :up:

"there will be an awesome CS style mod to grab a ton of players"

Thats funny
I wont say anything but you know what im thinkin:confused:
:rolleyes:

[legacy-Arclite]

Originally posted by MikeSobe
Interesting... But I think that a good amount more people play UT2003 than that just not as much as UT. For instance I migh tplay UT2003 for 30-45 min then go to Warcraft III for 35 min then back to Ut2003. Other times I play UT2003 for 3+ hours straight. I wonder if Epic tracked the total number of IP's logged (different IP's ) in a week or two weeks what it would be.

Hey your just like me. I play back and forth between UT2003 and WC3. They relive each other in a sense.

BTW, are u getting TFT? I don't think it's worth $30 for 4 new hero and 8 new units and bunch items no ones going to use.

[legacy-^Pr3datoR^]

soon Strike-Force will b out....
you just wait :)

[legacy-BaudGnarly]

When I say: "An awesome CS style mod" I guess I should re-phrase that as: "An awesome mod that becomes as popular as CS has."

I still can't believe there are 80,000+ players at any given moment for CS. That's more than all other FPS shooters combined.

Anybody play SoF2? I spend quite a bit more time online playing that than UT2k3 or UT these days.

[legacy-ErecT]

Who cares about free for all?
FFA sux in UT2k3! Hardly any servers* availeble and their are hardly any good players playing it..
I hope the built-in voicecom for UT2k4 helps the FFA scene but as it is now its dead.

*) servers = good servers, with TTM and tourney settings and LE maps.

[legacy-If you see kay]

FFA?
Future Farmers of America?:confused:

[legacy-ErecT]

FFA = Free For all. Meaning public games, not clanmatches. n00b! ;)

[legacy-pRO_mOde//1*]

Originally posted by TseTse
perhaps folks should consider the possibility that if it was THE SAME, then even less people would have bought it and would be playing it.

i.e. MOST fans of unreal actually didnt want the same things that a small group of people are whining about. perhaps...





:up:

[legacy-ErecT]

btw, planetunreal has a newsitem about this thread.
You guys can touch me. Im famous now!!!! ;D

[legacy-If you see kay]

noob?
Im too tired to flame you oh mighty 2gay3 PRO.
go play with your bots.
I was hopeing ffa was a field plowing /cow milking mod
:rolleyes:
Hell Id install 2k3 just to virtually milk cows and work on combines
Im sure it would be as entertaining as anything 2k3 has to offer now.
U2 xmp will be>2k4 :mad: :up:

[legacy-JaFO(JBE)]

If everyone keeps looking at those stats instead of playing the damned game then there's not going be many people on-line ...

/me I'm waiting for a few mods / total conversions. The old-skool hyperfast arcade-style that is UT'03 is too boring to play on-line, especially if there's only the standard maps without mutators.

[legacy-ErecT]

Originally posted by If you see kay
noob?
Im too tired to flame you oh mighty 2gay3 PRO.
go play with your bots.
I was hopeing ffa was a field plowing /cow milking mod
:rolleyes:
Hell Id install 2k3 just to virtually milk cows and work on combines
Im sure it would be as entertaining as anything 2k3 has to offer now.
U2 xmp will be>2k4 :mad: :up:

Sorry if I offended you but if U look carefully U see a smiley. Meaning it was a joke.
U2 has no skills. sorry.
UT2k3 has to much skillz I think. To much to become good at so people give up cause they suck. Moves, weaponswithes, shieldgun, new translocator is a few of theese things that makes UT2k3 so skilled to master. And many good UT1 players got owned when they didn´t bother to learn so they dropped the game.
This particular thing is what make this game so extremly good and also so bad. (bad cause it made the community so small)

[legacy-babystinky]

Take the "perceived" Quake *FEEL* to the game -out-, invent some newer weapons, while bringing back the sniper, create some cool maps, and be a little more creative with character models and some of the OLD UT players would probably come back.

Sadly I believe this is the beginning of the end of UT. UT1 is now on its last legs, and Ut2k3 hasn't made any impact and lost too many players.

What will happen when Half Life 2 comes out?>

Most players I know are just waiting for it.

Ut2k4 looks to me to be the same game as ut2k3 except with tanks and jets, it looks more geared toward the x-box then anything.

Ut1 was a lot of fun and I miss the players playing it, but now it is time for a change and a new wave of games are coming.

[legacy-moppel]

Originally posted by babystinky
Take the "perceived" Quake *FEEL* to the game -out-, invent some newer weapons, while bringing back the sniper, create some cool maps, and be a little more creative with character models and some of the OLD UT players would probably come back.
This actually sounds like a threat.

[legacy-If you see kay]

not offended its ok
ut1 players didnt get owned
Well some of them did lol
But comming from yrs and yrs of hand eye cordination/knowing how the weapons work meant they were allready better than most that play 2k3 fresh.
Also not to mention 2k3 runs better and ping doesnt affect you as much where as in ut its allways a factor that every player has to fight with.
Its more because it was a totally different game.
If they wouldnt have changed everything(i do mean everything)from what ut was it would be thriving now.
They totally erked a large percentage of there core audience and most left completely
UT1ers waited for 4 yrs to be dissappointed with a game that has very little to do with ut
Its a sports themed quake 3 with ut gametypes and nerfed weapons.
Also when 2k3 was released it was a buggy mess that left a bad taste in everybodies mouth.

Babystinky your post is fantastic:cry:
so you remeber what the ut sceen was like before 2k3 ruined it?
Tell me stories papa
Im one of the ones waiting for hl-2
Im also very very happy epic gave the U2xmp go ahead
That will possibly give us a new home

[legacy-JaFO(JBE)]

Originally posted by babystinky
...
What will happen when Half Life 2 comes out?>

Most players I know are just waiting for it.

I predict that HL2 (and D3) will suffer the exact same thing as happened with UT'03 :
= lots of whining by 'veterans' that it's nothing like the HL1

= lots of complaints that there's not enough 'new' stuff (by the people that for some reason expected some kind of 'new' game ... even though it said sequel on the box)

= lots of complaints that it has too much of a quake/doom/unreal/whatever-feel (because people imagine lots of things if they're not satisfied)

In short : I really really doubt that any game can match CS/HL in popularity on-line. There simply aren't enough people that have the internet-connection & time to make that a reality. Especially since 'modern' games require cable/adsl just to find the servers to play.

It's a sequel.
Sequels rarely if ever dare to be revolutionary at best they're evolutionary ... kind of like UT'03 was. Bits of new stuff, bits of old stuff and lots of praying the result is fun.

[legacy-If you see kay]

DOOD!
have you seen the 30 minute hl-2 e3 presentation?:weird:
Id sudjest dling it and watch in awe.
It is the next huge leap forward in gaming.
Also they kept pretty much everything the original was
Hell they even brought back characthers AND THE CROWBAR!
It makes 2k4 look like mario cart 64

It might not catch on yet but when ppl make the next jump with pcs it will be the new hl/cs
Not to mention the hl online community plays nothing but mods off the engine
This new engine has unlimited potential

[legacy-JaFO(JBE)]

How can anything be a 'huge leap in gaming' if "they kept pretty much everything" ?
You wanna see good and huge leaps ?
'S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:Oblivion lost' (gameplay, AI, graphics, athmosphere) and 'Far Cry' (for the graphics) ... that's 'huge leap'.
A sequel with the same old characters ain't not going to be 'huge' ...

And no ... I haven't seen nor am I going to see that E3-movie as I want to keep as many suprises as I can if it's released. Because while you'll be complaining about how there's not enough of those situations in the game (look at all those people complaining about karma-effects in UT'03), while I probably am enjoying those few moments ...

[legacy-ErecT]

Slow games like cs, to half-life sux IMO.
I want a game to be more then just aim and tactics.

[legacy-pRO_mOde//1*]

With all this talk of 'not many people playing ut2k3' and the constant comparison between this game and UT mentioned on a weekly basis on this forum, perhaps Epic should not be bringing out ut2k4.

The big increase in the way ut2k3 looks and plays compared to UT obiously turned a lot of UT players away from purchasing/playing the game. Perhaps with this in mind, instead of bringing out 2k4, it may of been better to release (over the next 12 months) a series of big packs which would gradually take this game to the next level where ut2k4 is going to go.

Introducing the new features i.e vehicles, mods, etc etc.. gradually, instead of releasing a complete new game which looks and feels totally different to the last.

Who knows perhaps if Epic had released a version of this game after UT (say like in the middle----UT--?---UT2K3) people would of had more time to get used to the game evolving to where it is now..

Personally i have not had enough experience of playing UT to comment on why the first game is 'better' or 'worse' than ut2k3, but i think its a shame there is such a divide in the 2 communities..

Hell at the end of the day we are all UNREAL TOURNAMENT players (what ever version you play) so lets all have a bong and get along!! :D :D :D


mÒde«1*


P.S I would love to know what would be the most popular game out of 2 (UT and UT2k3) if in some weird world they had been released at the same time...hmmmmm

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Most of the whiners would go away if Epic would just say they are not going to change the weapons & player models and sounds and adrenaline etc...These people are here because they are hoping for change.

Many people have known for several months that the majority of players playing UT2003 are bots and if these whiners leave then bot count might reach over 80% :D. There are very few good maps for UT2k3 because the people who know how to make these great maps are the ones whose maps are currently still being played in UT and most of those people refuse to map for UT2k3. The Make Something Unreal contest might bring a couple of these mappers out, but I doubt it will bring many and not for long, since those people are likely to move over to Quake4, Half-Life2, BF1942 etc... :confused: . Once these people are gone getting them back will be extremely difficult :eek:

[legacy-DrSinister69]

Anytime something changes there's always going to whiners who whine that they don't like it. Oh well, don't play it. These people making these blanket statements that "nobody likes ut2003" are full of sh*t. Speak for yourselves and only yourselves.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by JaFO(JBE)
I predict that HL2 (and D3) will suffer the exact same thing as happened with UT'03 :

In short : I really really doubt that any game can match CS/HL in popularity on-line.

It's a sequel.
Sequels rarely if ever dare to be revolutionary at best they're evolutionary ... kind of like UT'03 was. Bits of new stuff, bits of old stuff and lots of praying the result is fun.

id have to mostly agree with this, based on seeing Tribes2 and UT2k3 now. ONLINE gameplay sequels with popular games... is really friggin messy.

hl2 itself will do just fine, watch, but followups to CounterStrike and such... well... lol

no way there will be automatic 80-100k player base online (by that i mean a constant stream of that magnitude, which CS has).

sequels screw with emotions, clans, server setups, computer specs, gameplay... and it's impossible for game devs to either just keep the game the same or totally change it. but they also need to do a little of both... (or at least percieve to be doing both)

ut2k4... btw... is not merely ut2k3 "with tanks." at least we should hope not, although frankly... that would make most gamers happy.

ut2k4 appears to be akin to the ORIGINAL vision of the next game epic always intended to do (instead of ut2k3). it extends ut2k3 with new gametypes and gameplay. period.

most importantly, it is a friggin cool platform for more modding, and tells the gaming world that Unreal can evolve... truly evolve into epic gameplay with vehicles and such (which is necessary, in spite of some of the whiners who think it's bad to include the option of vehicles)

[legacy-TseTse]

let me repost this, for the goofballs who still think this thread and the point is "omfg ut2k3 is dead, ut owns, everybody hates ut2k3"


csports.net stats - 10:09pm est - unique aliases (i.e. not all bots)

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672

UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539

ut2k3 isnt doing great, but it isnt doing badly either.

[legacy-|55th|Mulder]

Hi all,

This post is great. I hope the EPIC is reading this and trying to figure out what they can do to improve this situation for the next game.

I have felt this way since about a month after the release. Every time I go to play most of the servers are EMPTY :( I love UT and miss that, "I can't play it enough" feeling from the old UT days.

Anyway, I bought 3 copies of this game and I'm hoping that some MOD comes out to make me feel like I got my money's worth. I have a LAN built in the house for LAN parties. I can hold 20 in my basement. Sadly, we don't play UT like we used too. :(

So far, I'm very disappointed with the online play. Don't get me wrong the network code is rock solid. It's just that UT2k doesn't have "IT" like UT did.

Here is hoping that UT2K4 has "IT", because I really want it back.

Thanks guys for the great post,
Mulder

PS Now let’s hope that the powers that be are paying attention to their Avid fans. And above all I really appreciate all the hard work EPIC does to support the fans... I'm just hoping that this contest will spark more interest in online UT2k3.

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by TseTse
let me repost this, for the goofballs who still think this thread and the point is "omfg ut2k3 is dead, ut owns, everybody hates ut2k3"


csports.net stats - 10:09pm est - unique aliases (i.e. not all bots)

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672

UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539

ut2k3 isnt doing great, but it isnt doing badly either.

Let me repost a repost of this post with a massive correction

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308 - 90184 = 60,123
2 Deathmatch 140,767 - 84460 = 56,306
.
.
.
etc... when bots are factored in at an optimistic 60% :confused: :eek:

[legacy-webmaster696]

Originally posted by TseTse
please dont even start flaming me, if you know me you know that isht doesnt work and invites making you look like a retard.

thanks.

and no, i am not in denial or avoiding facts.

ut2k3 ctf certainly isnt a success, but neither is it a total failure. that's my point. nothing more, nothing less.
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[ ] Get a life
[ ] Never post again
[x] I pity your dog
==============================================

[Ultron]

I've said all along 2k3 has to have bots off by default. But failing that, the entire 2k3 server admin community needs to manually turn them all off.

The biggest problem this game has is the requirements needed to run it. In all the LAN parties I've ran in my small community, most people can't run it. But they can run most every other game. Even BF1942 doesn't come close to 2k3 in the type of hardware needed to run that game.

[legacy-If you see kay]

oh your crazy
Im lucky if i get 50 fps in bf1942 tops
I had to buy another 256 stick on top of my 512 just to get it to stop choppin and i got all details as low as it gets
I get over 400fps in ut2k3 with 90 avg and have never lagged out
just admit to yourself bf1942>2k3
esp online
:D

[legacy-If you see kay]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
Let me repost a repost of this post with a massive correction

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308 - 90184 = 60,123
2 Deathmatch 140,767 - 84460 = 56,306
.
.
.
etc... when bots are factored in at an optimistic 60% :confused: :eek:
I didnt read but was bots allready took out of this survey?
If not lol ut WAY>2k3
which is what it looks like to me when i just browse the server list in 2k3 / ut

[legacy-Keith_C]

Wasn't it decided one of the main reasons for the player numbers was that it was vastly harder to play a pirate copy on-line?

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
Let me repost a repost of this post with a massive correction

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308 - 90184 = 60,123
2 Deathmatch 140,767 - 84460 = 56,306
.
.
.
etc... when bots are factored in at an optimistic 60% :confused: :eek:

you do grasp that this is about aliases, right, not the #s presented in the snapshots?

[legacy-TseTse]

ill repost this for the 4th friggin time since some people cant seem to actually read or handle #s

USE YOUR BRAIN PLEASE: THESE FIGURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BOTS AS THEY ARE COUNTING THE TOTAL # OF ALIASES OVER A MONTH AND THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY BOT NAMES FOR EITHER GAME.

UT2k3 Players In Last 31 Days
1 Capture The Flag 150,308
2 Deathmatch 140,767
3 Team Game 108,066
4 Bombing Run 101,400
5 Invasion 18,387
6 Death Ball 12,672

UT Players In Last 31 Days
1 Tactical Ops 190,681
2 Capture The Flag 160,056
3 Deathmatch 118,554
4 Team Game 59,420
5 Assault 19,539

* NOTE: the "total" does not mean you just add #1-5, because these could be the same aliases across the gametypes.

now, what you make of those or how you interpret them is up to you. personally, this tells me ut2k3 isnt doing very well... nor very badly compared to ut. but ut also includes a remarkable chunk of mod players which ut2k3 just does not.

this is far more accurate sketch of the activity for each game than the momentary snapshots with bots removed or not. this tells us broadly the player base for the games, although not how MUCH time they spend playing.

[legacy-MoxNix]

Originally posted by TseTse
ill repost this for the 4th friggin time since some people cant seem to actually read or handle #s

USE YOUR BRAIN PLEASE: THESE FIGURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BOTS AS THEY ARE COUNTING THE TOTAL # OF ALIASES OVER A MONTH AND THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY BOT NAMES FOR EITHER GAME.


You do grasp the concept that bot names can be anything the admin chooses to make them?

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by MoxNix
You do grasp the concept that bot names can be anything the admin chooses to make them?

yes, and what # of the 150,000 active ut2k3-ctf aliases do you believe are bots?

32? 100? 200? 500? 1000? 5000? 50000? what about the ut figures?

...

my point is i believe these are relatively useful rough sketches of the player bases. folks can try to lie to themselves or deny the rough utility if they insist...

i think we can safely presume the # of bot names for both games are ROUGHLY the same, and very small compared to the totals (id actually argue that ut prolly has more custom bot namess just being an older game, but an insignificant figure)

[legacy-Quiet]

I think the whole bots in the server list is a bit of a misnomer.

I run some servers and yes I have put some bots in. That is because when I didn't no one played.

The problem is not bots per se, its lack of players.

People (new players mostly) will scan servers to find one with people playing. Even if its bots its better to join that server and have something to do while waiting for other real people to show up. Unfortunately with UT2k3 not many real people show up.

To also say Server Admins need to work harder to entice people in is fanastyland BTW. Why the hell should we have too? If its not popular it gets the attention it deserves.

I started with 6 UT2K3 servers on release.

Now I run two and one is Deathball.

Frankly given the player numbers Two is bit too generous.
My company runs 60 CS server for comparison and its still expanding. (Don't flame me, I personally dislike the game but its popular).

To argue the game is perfect is fine but the reality is that if you bought it for the multiplayer aspect (and lets face it the SP "campaign" is an hour or two at best) then UT2K3 is doing something wrong. I resent paying as much as I did for the game that I have thus far got very little value from.

I bought the game to play it online ...not to make maps. Epic really seem to be floundering a bit with the "make something Unreal". For a million dollar comp I have never seen such lack of interest. If a lot of people were playing it would sense as it is it would have been better to have spent the money sponsoring a few "pro" comps. Yes I know "pro" is dirty word at this forum but face facts, big playing comps get people interested at the grassroots level.

Probably the worst thing in my view about UT2k3, and one of the reasons for not feeling the need to play it is the lack of polish.

UT did a lot of little things right. The team coms, the interface/browser, the maps, the different feel (to the Quakes etc).

Instead of adding functionality UT2K3 went backwards. Bad interface, less attention to the playing experience and more to graphics (while nice most people get over graphics very switfly).
From a Server admin perspective a "e-sport" game with no player voting/map vote function is really a joke, it was one of the only things that annoyed me about UT that I naviely thought given the hype UT2k3 would fix. To encourage competitive play its the way to make running "semi competitve" matches easier without the need for an admin to be around to change maps etc.

While I hope not I think ut2k4 will just further split the playing numbers if it.

BTW for the games sake Epic please make some pretty "wow graphics" maps and show them off to gaming journos etc. Then dump them for playable maps in the actual release of ut2k4. If I see so much as a hint of overdone 'fog" in the UT2k4 screenshots I won't be buying it.


I was an avid UT player and to say I am bothering to post here to flame the game is wrong BTW. I want the game to succeed but frankly it hasn't personally grabbed me as much as UT did therefore I don't feel inclined to put in the effort.

[legacy-[Z]Mòó§ë]

^^^^^^^^^

Awesome post Quiet!!!

[legacy-BaudGnarly]

Everything Atari touches turns to dust...

Even though Enter The Matrix sold 2 million... it is the biggest Piece of S**T game.

UT was damn near perfect, so why did it get all f'd up in 2003?

I place the blame solely on Infogrames/Atari pushing their developers in the wrong direction. Going for bigger "Splash" for more "Cash" while ditching the "Flow" in exchange for some "Dough"

:cool:

[legacy-If you see kay]

:up:
"Ive got your back"
Ok imma beat box for ya keep it goin :cool: :up:

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by TseTse
yes, and what # of the 150,000 active ut2k3-ctf aliases do you believe are bots?

32? 100? 200? 500? 1000? 5000? 50000? what about the ut figures?

...

my point is i believe these are relatively useful rough sketches of the player bases. folks can try to lie to themselves or deny the rough utility if they insist...

i think we can safely presume the # of bot names for both games are ROUGHLY the same, and very small compared to the totals (id actually argue that ut prolly has more custom bot namess just being an older game, but an insignificant figure)

Even if you were to believe that the aliases etc were not bots in the 31 days calculation period, you would see that it does not jive with the daily numbers where the majority of players are bots. This would mean that perhaps a lot of those aliases in the 31 day calculation are people who jump online to try the UT2k3 demo and once they played it they are never heard or seen from again. :confused: :eek:

UT on the other hand does not count bots, and very few people are still testing out the UT demo, and UT probably does not or no longer counts demo players, so the 31 day count is accurate for UT, but word has it that UT2k3 does count demo players and bots:eek:

[legacy-Cyberslob]

Very interesting post on the statistics. I only play the odd game now and then. Always been surpriced on the few servers and players the broswer finds. But then again, there is no real big problem finding a good server and to get a good game.

Post shows again that statistics are completely meaningless unless you know exactly how they are calculated.

Also shows that the gamespy stats cannot be used at all, when comparing games.

[legacy-Power130]

Bot Percentage: ~64%
See, bots really can OWN j00! :haha:

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
Even if you were to believe that the aliases etc were not bots in the 31 days calculation period, you would see that it does not jive with the daily numbers where the majority of players are bots. This would mean that perhaps a lot of those aliases in the 31 day calculation are people who jump online to try the UT2k3 demo and once they played it they are never heard or seen from again. :confused: :eek:


personally, i do not see those figures as showign a dramatic case either way. i dont feel as compelled as some to believe ut2k3 is doing so badly... when all the facts show it just isnt doing as well as we'd hope. yes, facts. get passed all the "bot" talk and just look fairly at the numbers.

they tell me that ut2k3 DOES have a very active user base, but as we all know there just isnt a massive base online at any moment. the daily/hourly figures have a dramatic range but we also know there is a lot % of bots (although that % isnt always as high as has been suggested here, if you really browse with ASE late night).

these figures thus tell me that UT2k3 is a hot bed of players jumping onto servers for SHORT periods of time. doesnt mean they are uninstalling. just means folks are playing less than we would expect (or compared to UT).

it isnt like UT where folks play/played for hours at a time, every night. that's my conclusion.

likewise, of all the categories of active players between both UT and UT2k3, Tactical Ops is the larger active player base.

ill recycle those stats from the other night, once again, and paint them in another useful way.

Active Unreal "Players" over last 31 days
(csports.net - unique Aliases per category)

* 190,681 --- UT TacOps
* 160,056 --- UT CTF
* 150,308 --- UT2k3 CTF
* 140,767 --- UT2k3 DM
* 118,554 --- UT DM
* 108,066 --- UT2k3 TDM
* 101,400 --- UT2k3 BR
* 59,420 --- UT TDM
* 19,539 --- UT Assault
* 18,387 --- UT2k3 Invasion
* 12,672 --- UT2k3 Death Ball

To me, even knowing some of those aliases are bots, this is a VERY instructive picture of what's going on within both games (BTW, i can go back and search the forums, but i believe the ut2k3 numbers were actually twice what we see here... say 6-8 months ago... and yes, i posted them on a similar thread).

The most active sector is TO. That says a LOT. Folks, it's not viable to really compare across both games without bias. For me, NO GAME compares to my experience with UT about 3 years ago. I spent every night playing it. I just know not to be romantic in comparing any game with that enjoyment i found in it, but it doesnt "do it" for me anymore. No game captures my attention that much anymore, so... i cant BLAME ut2k3. etc

Meanwhile,


Originally posted by Quiet
Epic really seem to be floundering a bit with the "make something Unreal". For a million dollar comp I have never seen such lack of interest. If a lot of people were playing it would sense as it is it would have been better to have spent the money sponsoring a few "pro" comps. Yes I know "pro" is dirty word at this forum but face facts, big playing comps get people interested at the grassroots level.

I find it sad that server admins still believe this stuff. If you truly think there's little interest in the $1,000,000 "make something unreal" competition and that investing in "pro" competition would be more effective... you're nuts. sorry. pro community doesnt mean a DAMN thing in terms of #s online, imho, and this competition has CERTAINLY caused a ton of interest.

to come back to the main point and the ACTUAL STATISTICS, let's realize again that the #1 active category of unreal players is Tactical Ops.

tell me ut2k3 cant and shouldnt have mods just as popular... and then tell me there will be SERVER ADMIN support for more than IG.

[legacy-GoldBoxer]

Originally posted by TseTse
personally, i do not see those figures as showign a dramatic case either way. i dont feel as compelled as some to believe ut2k3 is doing so badly... when all the facts show it just isnt doing as well as we'd hope. yes, facts. get passed all the "bot" talk and just look fairly at the numbers.

they tell me that ut2k3 DOES have a very active user base, but as we all know there just isnt a massive base online at any moment. the daily/hourly figures have a dramatic range but we also know there is a lot % of bots (although that % isnt always as high as has been suggested here, if you really browse with ASE late night).

these figures thus tell me that UT2k3 is a hot bed of players jumping onto servers for SHORT periods of time. doesnt mean they are uninstalling. just means folks are playing less than we would expect (or compared to UT).

it isnt like UT where folks play/played for hours at a time, every night. that's my conclusion.

likewise, of all the categories of active players between both UT and UT2k3, Tactical Ops is the larger active player base.

ill recycle those stats from the other night, once again, and paint them in another useful way.

Active Unreal "Players" over last 31 days
(csports.net - unique Aliases per category)

* 190,681 --- UT TacOps
* 160,056 --- UT CTF
* 150,308 --- UT2k3 CTF
* 140,767 --- UT2k3 DM
* 118,554 --- UT DM
* 108,066 --- UT2k3 TDM
* 101,400 --- UT2k3 BR
* 59,420 --- UT TDM
* 19,539 --- UT Assault
* 18,387 --- UT2k3 Invasion
* 12,672 --- UT2k3 Death Ball

To me, even knowing some of those aliases are bots, this is a VERY instructive picture of what's going on within both games (BTW, i can go back and search the forums, but i believe the ut2k3 numbers were actually twice what we see here... say 6-8 months ago... and yes, i posted them on a similar thread).

The most active sector is TO. That says a LOT. Folks, it's not viable to really compare across both games without bias. For me, NO GAME compares to my experience with UT about 3 years ago. I spent every night playing it. I just know not to be romantic in comparing any game with that enjoyment i found in it, but it doesnt "do it" for me anymore. No game captures my attention that much anymore, so... i cant BLAME ut2k3. etc

.....
to come back to the main point and the ACTUAL STATISTICS, let's realize again that the #1 active category of unreal players is Tactical Ops.

tell me ut2k3 cant and shouldnt have mods just as popular... and then tell me there will be SERVER ADMIN support for more than IG.

No. UT Tactical OPS only surpassed CTF like this year. Before that UT CTF had a much larger number than TO. Now consider that UT is almost 5 years old it would seem logical that a MOD would become the more popular game mode. UT2003 is not even a year old and CTF for example is microscopically tiny compared to UT CTF a few years back and up until the present . Any way you slice it or dice it UT2k3 is not doing well and the developers need to change it radically or make it like UT or the Unreal chapters will quickly come to a close. :p :confused:

[legacy-MoxNix]

Originally posted by [Z]Mòó§ë
^^^^^^^^^

Awesome post Quiet!!!

Agreed! :up:

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by GoldBoxer
No. UT Tactical OPS only surpassed CTF like this year. Before that UT CTF had a much larger number than TO. Now consider that UT is almost 5 years old it would seem logical that a MOD would become the more popular game mode. UT2003 is not even a year old and CTF for example is microscopically tiny compared to UT CTF a few years back and up until the present . Any way you slice it or dice it UT2k3 is not doing well and the developers need to change it radically or make it like UT or the Unreal chapters will quickly come to a close. :p :confused:

guh, sorry, but i dont see the importance of when/how/whatever.

we're talking about right now and trends, so in that sense i agree with the overall growth/trend with UT. i think UT is blessed and a major success, and even with TO being the most popular aspect of Unreal overal, i do NOT think that takes a damn thing away from either game (that was NOT my point so dont be defensive).

again, folks need to relax on the ut2k3 vs ut issue, and evolve.... lookin at the OPPORTUNITIES in these figures instead of trying to find new reasons to run around screaming that the damn sky is falling...

PEOPLE, STOP MAKING THE ISSUE ALWAYS ABOT "UT2k3 VS UT." look at this in terms of the overal unreal tournament universe and what opportunities there are for future growth (whether ut, ut2k3 or ut2k4).

bottom line: as you state:


Originally posted by GoldBoxer
No. UT Tactical OPS only surpassed CTF like this year.

I.E. a mod has continued to GROW as a force within the ut/ut2k3 player base.

most ut2k3 mods havent shown up to the party yet, so perhaps there's a good sign of hope here... since mods CAN OBVIOUSLY have an impact of the overall activity.

seems obvious to me... :D

granted, the outstand question is what effect ut2k4 will have... good, bad, or neutral on the overall unreal tournament universe.

(and btw, TO was bigger than base ut ctf a year ago, cuz i remember. two years ago? obviously ctf was bigger then)

[legacy-moppel]

Originally posted by TseTse
If you truly think there's little interest in the $1,000,000 "make something unreal" competition and that investing in "pro" competition would be more effective... you're nuts. sorry. pro community doesnt mean a DAMN thing in terms of #s online, imho, and this competition has CERTAINLY caused a ton of interest.

Right on. :up: Even I've started mapping now. Don't think I have a chance, not even that I'll be finished in time, but that contest inspired me. I didn't even know about the UT2003 machinima before... There's so much you can do with UT2003, and that means fun for me since I also like stuff like photoshopping.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by moppel
Right on. :up: Even I've started mapping now. Don't think I have a chance, not even that I'll be finished in time, but that contest inspired me. I didn't even know about the UT2003 machinima before... There's so much you can do with UT2003, and that means fun for me since I also like stuff like photoshopping.

if you really follow this forum, you'll notice that the LEAD PROGRAMMER for gearbox is even making unreal mutators in his spare time (instead of finishing Halo PC, i might add).

that says a ton :D

[legacy-KarlM@rx]

Has anyone heard if UT2004 is going to correct this 'error' of counting bots as players populating servers? :rolleyes:

[legacy-MoxNix]

Originally posted by KarlM@rx
Has anyone heard if UT2004 is going to correct this 'error' of counting bots as players populating servers? :rolleyes:

"That's not a bug, it's a feature!" :p

If it didn't count bots as players even the most rabid fanboys would eventually wake up and realize UT2k3 isn't doing very well online.

[legacy-RampantBunny]

Originally posted by webmaster696
...only about 25 CTF servers appeared with no bots filtered and real servers.


ermm I thought that filtered out all servers with bots configured, even if the server was loaded with real players :confused: and no actual bots are playing?

Thanks
Buns

[Ultron]

Originally posted by MoxNix
You do grasp the concept that bot names can be anything the admin chooses to make them?

That's a rarity, really. :)

[Ultron]

How about a mutator that will just show the numbers of players? Or some small mod? I remember the EavyBrowser made the UT server browser a whole lot better. Isn't there a way to spend a little time doing a similar browser today?

[legacy-TseTse]

wow@this thread being alive again

actually, while the burden really is on master servers and games which tag players as "bots" (i thought ut2k* did), i think the bigger issue is for gamers to feel like they can get information they can trust about gaming in general.

even without a distinct "is a bot" tag on players, i think one can garner more accurate stats by merely filtering on the "default" bot names/aliases. more accurate, but obviously not perfect.

im toying with writing up a formal article on this subject, perhaps in conjunction with "statsteam." i really think this has become a touchy and yet critical issue for the wider online fps community.

i dont think there's some type of conspiracy...

anyways, for record keeping/comparison purposes... here's latest stats... nearly half the aliases/people playing ut2k3 have vanished since july. for those following these broad sketches, that means there was a rather strong increase in the curve up through the MSU contest/july, and then a massive drop in august.

this is particularly severe in the non-DM categories.

Active Unreal "Players" over last 31 days (9.8.03)

csports.net - unique Aliases per category (7.9.03 figures in paras)


UT Tactical Ops 187,799 (190,681)
UT Capture The Flag 138,980 (160,056)
UT Deathmatch 105,515 (118,554)
UT2k3 Deathmatch 89,416 (140,767) <-- ~40% drop
UT2k3 Capture The Flag 67,597 (150,308) <--- :eek:
UT2k3 TDM 56,337 (108,066)
UT TDM 52,093 (59,420)
UT2k3 Bombing Run 26,793 (101,400) <--- :eek:
UT Assault 17,168 (19,539)
UT2k3 Invasion 14,193 (18,387)


WOW! Notice the relative consistency for the UT stats. Now, notice the dramatic drop in the UT2k3 stats, especially in BR and CTF.

I might add, that the UT2k3 stats were growing over time, and then this remarkable sudden drop after a little boost in July (i personally thikn this meant that a ton of owners booted the game due to the MSU hype, and went off to find non-dm games, and then stopped playing again).

I dont think this is necessarily bad news. In fact, as well all know, while folks are "totalled up" over time, that doesnt mean all those people were actually PLAYING in any serious way (it just means they were seen playing, at least once).

What really is the question is whether ut2k4 and mods will create new serendipity for UT2k*.

UT itself seems like it's gonna stay as-is for a while, with Tactical Ops accounting for a very massive chunk of the fan base.

[BeerNut]

Originally posted by Tast!es
I think that once most gamers have 2.4 's and something comparable to a g4 ti4600, this game will be pretty popular. I just think its real demanding and most people cant get the smooth performance like they can with those other games mentioned. To me the game is pretty unenjoyable on lower specs, but the best game out there with a real nice pc. I personaly think the recomended specs should have been more around 2.4 and min specs should be around 1 gig. I really cant even imagine how anyone could even play this game on a computer with a 1 gig processor, even with a 9800 or a 5900ultra.

^^^This has been my experience as well. Several people that I played UT with regularly simply do not have the hardware it takes to run UT2K3 well (although they do enjoy the game).

I myself have been suffering through play on an Athlon 550mhz w/a Geforce 2 MMX 400...

I finally scraped together enough $ for a new machine though, so I'm looking forward to being able to play on ALL the maps.:p

[nighty]

wow@this thread being alive again lol, no doubt. This one just won't die. :haha: :D

And speaking of stats, here is the current Gamespy listing @ 2:43pm Central time:

Unreal Tournament
2699 servers, 5122 players

Unreal Tournament 2003
2081 servers, 4715 players

Using my estimation as listed in the first post in this thread of ~64% of players = bots in UT2003, that would mean only about ~1700 human players are playing, or about 1/3 the number of players playing UT. Okay, exclude TacOps, and it's still about ~1000 less players than UT. Sad really.

[legacy-TseTse]

Originally posted by nightstormer
lol, no doubt. This one just won't die. :haha: :D

And speaking of stats, here is the current Gamespy listing @ 2:43pm Central time:

Unreal Tournament
2699 servers, 5122 players

Unreal Tournament 2003
2081 servers, 4715 players

Using my estimation as listed in the first post in this thread of ~64% of players = bots in UT2003, that would mean only about ~1700 human players are playing, or about 1/3 the number of players playing UT. Okay, exclude TacOps, and it's still about ~1000 less players than UT. Sad really.

frankly, both csports and gamespy "snapshot" stats are totally bogus.

by "snapshot" i mean the "total players online right now" for the various reasons mentioned like 999 times on this thread.

imo, if you really want a nice snapshot, here's what you do:

open All Seeing Eye, load up UT2k3 with "no bots" toggled under BOTH filter sections (this will not remove all of them).

sort by # of players and maximize your window. you'll see a very large chunk of the real action for the game. you can quickly poke through the servers and see which have bots (usually when you sort by # of players, you cut out the servers which run with 4-6 bots or less).

you can also selected a bunch of servers that way, and look at the real # of players within the selected servers.

with a little bit of work, you can get a really good sense of the proper player counts.

[nighty]

frankly, both csports and gamespy "snapshot" stats are totally bogus.Gamespy was pretty close in server # and player count as the in-game server browser. I'm not sure how much more accurate you would need it to be. I'm guessing 99.9% of people playing don't pay a fee for ASE and find games either through the browser or gamespy. In any event, I hope UT2004 breaks the monotony and kicks online ass where UT left off. :up:

[legacy-1Kind]

Originally posted by Tobbe
This is obviously a hard nut to crack for Epic,to seperate the bots from the humans. :haha:
This cracks me up. Going on a year now and the illusive bot counting bug has perplexed the 2k3 design team.

[legacy-RageQuick]

I used to play the crap out of UT1 till UT2003 came out and I played the hell out of it for about 2 months. I quit and went on to play RTCW and then ET because UT2003 had no players on DM servers (DM is all I liked to play) in my area (Mid USA). The closest server with atleast 6 players LOL, was at a ping of 125. So I would see 100 empty servers all the way to a ping of 30.

Is there anybody that plays this game in the Midwest area?
Certainly there is atleast 100 servers in my area that I ping at 35 to 60.

The only name I recognized from UT1 was Social_Phobia.

Well I'm tired of RTCW and ET, finished GTA3VC, Postal2 etc and I played BF42 and all the mods and think its a lame game. I don't like CS or any games like it.

My UT1 cd is trashed so I'm going to start playing UT2003 again. Lets FRAG!!!

[legacy-Pirat3]

Originally posted by nightstormer
I'm an admin for several UT99 servers and a UT2003 server for a gaming community of over 4500 people. Our UT2003 server goes empty most of the time, and I got curious as to how many people were playing online. I had heard that Epic is counting the BOTS as players, and when I went into the server browser it showed thousands of players online playing. Since almost all the UT2003 servers out there are dead as hell, I decided to do my own tally of real players online vs. players + bots as shown by the UT2003 server browser. I was pretty amazed at the actual online players that are NOT playing this game. Please bear with all the numbers.

UT2003 Real Stats (using in-game server browser)
Compiled 7-6-03
Between 8-830pm Central

Key:
Servers = # of game servers
Players = real players + bots (as shown in server browser and gamespy) NOTE: second number in parenthesis was a refresh/reping of the gametype to update the number right after my count.
Counted Players = actual number of human players on servers (no bots)

Deathmatch: Servers - 890 / Players - 1789 (1737) / Counted Players - 423

TDM: Servers - 463 / Players - 524 (496) / Counted Players - 203

DoubleDom: Servers - 28 / Players - 100 (94) / Counted Players - 17

CTF: Servers - 550 / Players - 1216 (1212) / Counted Players - 546

BombingRun: Servers - 117 / Players - 338 (341) / Counted Players - 160

Invasion: Servers - 55 / Players - 168 (142) / Counted Players - 93

LMS: Servers - 12 / Players - 27 (27) / Counted Players - 3

Mutant: Servers - 6 / Players - 14 (17) / Counted Players - 0 (so 3 came on after my count, lol)


Total Servers: 2121
Total Players - 4176 (4066) AVG = 4121
Counted Players - 1445

Bot Percentage: ~64%
Human Percentage: ~36%

*Gamespy: 2168 Servers / 4416 players (including bots ofcourse)

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

Gamespy showed UT2003 as the 7th most played game counting the bots, but I believe real world online numbers would place it between Tribes2 and Jedi Knight2 (about 14th, and only 3 games above Quake2). Just for comparison sake, UT99 showed as 11th with 2696 servers & 2620 players at the time of this little experiment.

This post isn't meant as a flame, and maybe someone has already posted something similar to this. It's just for educational purposes, and AFAIK I've not seen someone actually count up the real number of human players (yes, I have no life). I like this game alot, and it bums me out that there aren't more players, but I thought you'd like to know the truth about real online numbers. I'm just wondering what we can do as players and server admins to try and get people playing this game. :bulb:


Edit: Typos


now make a comparisson to UT'99 hehe that would be c00l :up:

[legacy-HS SPoT]

Im not denying the player count.

But also, take into account that you arent seeing every server when you count in your masterbrowser, nor do two different people see the same servers all the time.

The player count is pretty low when comapaired to other games, sure. Im not to worried about that since only 25% or under of all the people playing games online are able to play this game due to connection or system requirements.


When looking at online numbers, try going to Yahoo, or MS.com and look at the numbers playing online chess/ checkers and games of that type. Even CounterStrike has little or no players.
There are a finite number of online gamers out there, and they all dont play everything. All new games are going to have a tough time aganced ones you can run in win95 with a P3 and 128megs o RAM, that have been patched, tried and tested for years.

Probibly the most successful game of 2002/3 was BF 42.
It drew players from no where, and has a pretty large fan base.
I might even be playing it if not for it being made by EA. EA will screw it up, they always do. But it was a great job, and inovative creation. Something new.

Anyway, something to think about....

[legacy-Critter1]

People can count stats and all that other stuff to judge if UT2K3 is failing.

All you need to do is ask yourself, Would Epic be releasing a new version, `04, if `03 was doing so well? The answer is no. I can go back in my stack of PC Gamer mags where Cliff and Tim are quoted saying that they would release new versions every 2 to 3 years. They had to step up the time table because of the lack of sustained interest in the game. From a business perspective, it is the right thing to do. You need to get your core base to move with the franchise into the future. Reality is, with UT2K3, the "core" or majority stayed with UT. You cannot be a successful company if you cannot get your fanbase to move forward.

Unfortunately all I see is a Halo, Quake ripoff coming. This will not help the Unreal franchise. And the most disturbing thing is that it is backwards compatible to UT2K3. That means the whole scaling and physics of the game are going to remain the same. Which is what I hated about UT2K3.:sour: