[MAP : DM] DM-Nirvana][ (Close to release) [Archive]

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-14-2003, 09:48 PM

Well like the title says the map is close to release. The map as at the stage that it is playable but not bug free.

I already have two people who are beta testers for this map and some mapping friends that will help beta it.

I am looking for 3 more people to beta it and give me ideas on the weapon placement etc... PM me and I will send you the link of the map.

Here are 4 pictures for the wait...

http://www.planetunreal.com/onlinewarriors/NB1.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/onlinewarriors/NB2.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/onlinewarriors/NB3.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/onlinewarriors/NB4.jpg

Somethings in those picture will still change. For example I will have a snow weather effect in the open parts. and some lens flares in some areas that I forgot. Plus some minor changes to skins on static meshes... I am leaving some things till the end. The map construction wise is finshed I just have small details to do.

The wait for this map is getting less and less :) At my site I say the map will be out in a week or so... but do not hold that to be true... I am still unsure. it will be less than a month I hope. FPS wise the map is ok in two parts of the map it slows down a bit but it is not horrible. and if the map is played 1 vs 1 or 3 players max than it will be fine. of course 7 or something will be hell for fps and the level is far too small to take 7 players... so keeping to the amount it should be all fine for most people. I have an old system too :)

OH! Forgot... I posted this already here but some people seem confused... well the ORM mappack I was planning and some other guys were going to enter failed so it will not be done right now. Maybe in 2 months or so... who knows but right now the ORM mappack is not going to happen right now.

legacy-Buckyfg

01-14-2003, 10:12 PM

That looks wild Desperado#2-Rog, you make the custom meshes too?

I love unique maps, unfortunatly I have two maps about to release in a week or so , and I dont have time to test yours, but I'm sure a bunch of people will step up for it :)

good stuff!

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-14-2003, 10:16 PM

yes all statics and textuers in those pics are mine... Except for some special effect things... lets say this is pretty much 98% my stuff.

legacy-DuSt0fF

01-14-2003, 10:22 PM

very nice :eek:

legacy-Desaparecido

01-14-2003, 11:21 PM

so if theres no mappack, whats gonna happen to ct-something?

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-14-2003, 11:24 PM

CTF-Something is going to be remade.

I did not like how it was turning out in the start... although some may have liked the way it was.... but well I first made this map DM-Nirvana][ for the sake of getting use to my own static meshes and figuring out new ways of using them... so CTF-Something will be re made with better looks overall. and more inventive design than what I had.

legacy-Desaparecido

01-14-2003, 11:49 PM

sweet. it was looking good.

legacy-Parantapa

01-15-2003, 12:23 AM

The woman in the blue bikini looks out of place. Cover her with a gothic robe or something else that goes with the dark mood of the map.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-15-2003, 12:34 AM

bad angle. sure she has a small top but the rest of the clothing is robe like. I'll see if ill change it but right now it is ok once you look at it in another view.

Sure this map is gothic like but it has some other styles in it that do not make it look normal gothic.

legacy--=WhiteWulf=-

01-15-2003, 01:02 AM

I smell cliffy B ownage :D

Angel_Mapper

01-15-2003, 01:39 AM

I remember you now, you're the one making that weird Face map. Recognized those hands in the upper corner of the room :D I love the unique look of that map, I don't know about this one though :p

legacy--=WhiteWulf=-

01-15-2003, 01:54 AM

Hey angel would you check your PM box thanks

legacy-Doctor7

01-15-2003, 01:55 AM

Now that I see this from more angles, I recognise more of the original Nirvana in it :up:

Still think the meshes are a bit high-contrast, but the UT ORM maps all had very strongly-lined, hand-drawn textures so maybe that was the look you were going for?

If it plays as well as the original it will be a definite on my map list.

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-15-2003, 03:13 AM

Map looks Stunning as usual Desp.

:p

Just Mailed u btw.

legacy-§uper-]V[oose

01-15-2003, 08:57 AM

Amazing looking map. Love the textures. http://forums.tactical-ops.to/images/smilies/worship.gif

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-15-2003, 10:16 AM

thanks :)

I am full of beta testers now so testing is on its way :D

The layout is actually 70% the same as the old map it is expanded just a little becuase UT2k3 is different in player speeds and other factors came into play. But yeah... the layout is very close to the past map.

I also like high contrast textuers I think this is how DM-Nirvana would look if it was in ut2k3. Many places remind me of it but still look new. It is like playing with low detail for the first one and highest detail for the new one...

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-19-2003, 11:21 AM

Well things going good so far.

No pics though

and just a bump :)

It really depends on the second beta how long it will take this map to be released. I might have to do some large changes that will take a while but we will see.

from the pics shown here I have already change plenty of it.

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-19-2003, 11:45 AM

Sorry!
Only just received link and i'm email u shortly desp.

legacy-P1nky

01-19-2003, 01:38 PM

Absolutely amazing.
Easily the best looking map I have seen yet. :up:
How about some wallpapers of it too when its released, or close to release, or just to tease us with? :)

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-19-2003, 05:08 PM

thanks :) Though I have seen very impressive maps that have come out recently that just had me in awe! I guess seeing my own map for so long kinda wears away at the awe factor...

legacy-Buckyfg

01-19-2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Desperado#2-Rog
thanks :) Though I have seen very impressive maps that have come out recently that just had me in awe! I guess seeing my own map for so long kinda wears away at the awe factor...

I totally agree, I've been working on my new map for so damn long you get numb to it.

legacy-Iceburgs

01-19-2003, 09:33 PM

Those are some incredible-looking screenies. I agree with parantapa--bikini babe looks a bit out of place. Hurry up and get the map out. :)

legacy-Turret

01-20-2003, 01:22 AM

No need to smell it, I think this level has ownage in the bag already. Best level for UT2003 I have seen so far, I think. :eek:

Hey desp, to shay

http://www.planetunreal.com/rahnem/images/lw01.jpg

legacy-Devastation 8

01-20-2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Turret
No need to smell it, I think this level has ownage in the bag already. Best level for UT2003 I have seen so far, I think. :eek:

Hey desp, to shay

http://www.planetunreal.com/rahnem/images/lw01.jpg

Say Turret, that face looks like Zeus...Hmm...I wonder what'll happen if we combine UT2003 and ancient greek...It'l ROCK!

MAKE IT!

legacy-TossMonkey

01-20-2003, 01:56 PM

This is great stuff. :)

Grim

01-20-2003, 01:59 PM

I want a CTF map from Desperado :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

btw this map looks great allthough I would prefer to see a CTF map but I play DM from time to time :D

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-20-2003, 02:01 PM

This map is really coming on Very well.

:p

legacy-tronicmind

01-20-2003, 02:36 PM

:eek: wow
looking at these screenies i lke to play a singleplayer game looking like this....:eek:

i m looking forward for release

tronicmind

virax

01-20-2003, 05:10 PM

Yo, Desp... check your PM box! ^.^

virax

01-22-2003, 07:30 AM

Oh god. I just finished downloading and starting to try out Beta 2. I spawned nearly the bikini chick, and the DD. I never hit above 1 frame per second, and my machine can generally run all Epic maps, and most custom maps at 50+ fps. I suppose you can assume I wasn't in the map for more than a minute, with that FPS. :(

I'm on a 1.5 ghz oc'd to 1.6 P4
ASUS mobo on the Intel 800 P4T chipset
256 megs Rambus (RDRAM)
Radeon 8500 64 MB

And... I had nothing running in the background. I dunno what to say man; I can't beta test a map that I can't run. =(

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-22-2003, 07:39 AM

hmmm.

I am on a P3.500
256mb ram
Gf2mx

and i ran Beta2 at about 25fps wich is good for me and faster than a alot of Epic maps.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Virax
Oh god. I just finished downloading and starting to try out Beta 2. I spawned nearly the bikini chick, and the DD. I never hit above 1 frame per second, and my machine can generally run all Epic maps, and most custom maps at 50+ fps. I suppose you can assume I wasn't in the map for more than a minute, with that FPS. :(

I'm on a 1.5 ghz oc'd to 1.6 P4
ASUS mobo on the Intel 800 P4T chipset
256 megs Rambus (RDRAM)
Radeon 8500 64 MB

And... I had nothing running in the background. I dunno what to say man; I can't beta test a map that I can't run. =(

Intresting thanks for the info ill see what I can do to further optimize it. 1 fps per second is odd though.

Try a few things

Trun world detail to low. This affects emiters. IF it is the emiters casuing it than I can reduce them further. but if it is not that than I have no clue the texs are reduced already that I did from beta 1 to beta 2. Ill see what I can do. Last thing I want is an uplayble map.

Thanks again :)

Plumb_Drumb

01-22-2003, 10:04 AM

I have noticed most problems with fps on maps comes from insufficient use of anti-portals, even on EPICs and DE's maps.

A few types of emmitters and a couple of those stock, static meshes are also culprits, but not as much as the lack of antiportals. (those bases in CTF-Magma have no optimization at all, hence the sad frames even when looking at a wall towards the rest of the map)

If it can be zoned that would probably help too.

Other than those three things, I don't see much you can do, besides getting rid of "invisible" elements.

Anyway, I know your experience on this stuff is tenfold what mine is so I am not worried.

At least you are conscious of optimization. Some "mappers" don't even know what optimization is. (reminds me of my friend who doesn't understand the importance of bot pathing. He thinks the bots should just be able to find thier way around the map by themselves, as if they had a brain with 5 senses :haha: )

legacy-P1nky

01-22-2003, 10:33 AM

Also it is said that using too many anti-portals will harm performance, as the CPU is spending more time deciding what to render, and what not to render.
So use antiportals wisely, and sparingly.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 12:45 PM

I am going to start doing some tests with Anti-portals.

I already have the map anti portalized... <-- made up word ;)

I have seen that too many like P1nky mentioned can cause a lot of slow down on some systems. So I am going to reduce them and maybe that can even help on my end also.

I tried it with out portals and the fps was not great so I left them on at full and never did a test at around half and just keeping the important ones. So that is one step I will do.

CTF-Magma plays well for me. It is really odd because I am seeing that some maps play ok on some system and some they do not.

Since we are all new to this it is important to find the middle area. I am just not sure I will be able to do it with this map :| but we will see.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 01:05 PM

I think Antiportals will be the way to go with this map - there are large open doorways and you can see through several at the same time, so zoning won't be a good solution.

What I would do is put antiportals (sticking out a few units on each side) in the walls above the doorways. Since a lot of your meshes are high up on the walls, it will cut out a lot of stuff in the next room. For example, in the first screenshot you could run an AP along the wall above the wide doorway, running from inside the top of the arch right up to the ceiling. As long as it doesn't stick out too far, it shouldn't interfere with players on the upper level.

PM me if you want me to look at Beta 2 and give you my best suggestions for where the antiportals would be most effective

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 03:08 PM

Sorry for the long post here

Thanks I have anti portals how you described I am going to take out some useless ones and add a few after I do a few tests.

Ill send you PM when I get beta 3 done which will not be the last but should be pretty close to done beta.

I wish I knew what the real problem is :bulb: because in reality for me it plays good and I have given this map to several mapping mates and well they had a good experience besides other little stuff like getting stuck in places which is very much fixable...

I have been going nuts over this issue because two people currently have problems. One the map crashes all out. And the other fps are horribly low specs seem fine. At the end it is a fact not everyone can be happy. Ill give it my best though. That is why I have 3 betas instead of the one beta.

I have been reading a lot of previous problems on past UT2k3 maps that had some of theses issues. Either I find these topics or some BT have sent me links to some of these things. One problem could have the terrain though the deleting the terrain did raise the fps on people who could actually play it but did not stop the crashing on some other person computer.

The stutter that came from the terrain has stopped on my pc and two of my mapping buds but not on one other person.

I am looking at all range of possibilities

One possibility is the size of the map it self. When zipped it is a totally of 17megs when uncompressed it is 60 or so megs. That is still a theory that I have not tried to deal with.

Maybe if the textures and static were separate from the map it could work better on the machine that crashes and the ones that play very slow. I have asked people about this and no real answer to it… This is still off because the map DM-Frozen is close in file size if I can remember to this map… Which leads to believe it is not file size related.

IT would be nice if Cliffyb or someone with more experiance would come here and say if the file size... putting everying in the mylevel thing is ok... and does not cause these problems.

( Unless a get clear cut answear on this I am not willing to seprate the mylevel into two files )

I am into the anti-portal theory right now, being too many in this map and reducing some. Than adding some better placed ones... and I have no idea if this will improve it any.

Mapping for this new engine is no joke lol.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 03:50 PM

The reason I offered to take a look is that I've been having serious polycount problems with my latest map (though not framerate problems, I have a higher polycount than is recommended in view and it still runs OK) so I've learned a lot about antiportals really quickly - how to spot whether they're working, and whether some of them were really needed. I originally thought I would need 15-20 of them for the whole map, I'm now thinking it will end up being more like 12 or 13, but I have just had to put back one that I originally took out.

And I wonder if the performance issues are with people who have 64Mb graphics cards? If the map file is that big then it may be swapping SMs and textures in and out of graphics memory.

virax

01-22-2003, 04:05 PM

Okies, here we go.

World Detail: From high to normal = +3-4 fps
Texture Detail: From high to normal = +2-4 fps
Texture Detail: From normal to low = +70 fps
Texure Detail: From low to lowest = +10 fps

Wow then, it looks to be the textures, and the map still looks ****ING awesome on Low. Sheez. Well, after giving this a thorough play, I can see an 0wnage coming on. However, I have a few issues to address, which I'll post in screenshot (along with my opinion on them) in a few minutes.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 04:17 PM

textuers! ha!

The least thing I would expect.

Can you take a pic of it in low texs and post here, just want to see if it looks horrible.

becuase on my system.. low detail texs look horrible.

edit/// nm you said the screenshot thing thanks :D

virax

01-22-2003, 04:32 PM

Uhmm... crap. I'm having trouble with my host; no access via HTTP, and no anonymous FTP access either. So, they're uploaded - you just can't see 'em. =\

Edit: Went to mai host's home page (my friend) and just foundout why...

"Oh, joy. The migration is complete. No user directories were harmed in this process. (But, my stupid self forgot to backup the MySQL db's haha.) Good old 5.0 is up now. Hurrah. Apache 1 (since I couldn't get 2 working in time, and people were *****ing) is up with PHP 4.2.3 (ports didnt have 4.3.0) MySQL 3.23, mod_ssl 2.8.12 or whatever and OpenSSL 0.9.6g. ProFTPd is there. Mail and DNS are going to be back up soon. Keep posted. Oh yeah, contact me if you want your MySQL db's to be recreated. (Sorry about that again haha.)"

legacy-Radeon285

01-22-2003, 04:45 PM

Desperado#2-Rog: PM

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 04:50 PM

I emailed you becuase the PM manger thing on your side must be filled up... not sure. But yeah the answear is yes.

Plumb_Drumb

01-22-2003, 04:53 PM

Ewww, a possible stutter issue.
Those have rendered even the best of maps unplayable (even with good fps).

I hope that gets fixed permanently.

btw, DM-Frozen is only 23mb's unzipped, not anywhere near 60.

I think the large file sizes really do contribute to stutters, which can be caused by the terrain.

Creeping Death had an issue with this. It ended up being his height maps for his terrain. He lowered them, which erradicated the stutter and lessened the file size to about 1/3 of the original size. He did kind of go from one extreme to the other tho, by nerfing his terrain a little too much (I don't think it was necessary to use such low height maps that he ended up using). So almost all terrain detail was lost.

Learning process I suppose, but at least his map is playable now, and still looks pretty good (besides the lighting).

If you are interested, look for the original thread here by CreepingDeath on his map, it's called DM-AbandonedCrypt.
There are two threads on the map, one for the original release and one for the fixed version. Make sure you read the original becasue that is where the problem was discovered, discussed and a fix for which was found.

:)

Anyway, everything I just said was probably of no help at all, was it? :cool:

virax

01-22-2003, 05:03 PM

Here ya go! These are in low; mark my words. It looks quite kickass. However, on lowEST, they were all blurred and ****ty looking.

http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\health1.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\health2.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\light1.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\light2.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\viraxsaysownage.jpg

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 05:32 PM

Okay, I gave it a try. First thing is that I was mostly getting a reasonable framerate (40-60), but it did drop quite badly looking across the central courtyard. I don't think there's much you can do, the player can just see so far at that point.

Second thing is that the textures seem far more detailed than they looked in the screenshots :) I really hope you don't have to reduce them to get it playable.

Third was that I'm sure some of your meshes could be lower-poly, the textures are good enough that you don't need that much detail in the meshes. The ones I spotted were arch3 (no way that should need over 1000 polys), Goth1W (proper smoothing and you could make the columns less sides) and the hands (I know they're cool but they're never that big in this map, so it could have less detail).

Fourth was that I found a lift which I couldn't just step onto, I had to jump, but I'll need to go back and play again before I can identify which one.

Finally the Antiportals. You definitely have too many - a maximum of 20 is recommended - and the ones that can go are probably the tall, thin ones. Also you need to check that they all actually work, I find that if the shape is too complex then sometimes only part of the Antiportal actually blocks anything.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Doctor7
Third was that I'm sure some of your meshes could be lower-poly, the textures are good enough that you don't need that much detail in the meshes. The ones I spotted were arch3 (no way that should need over 1000 polys), Goth1W (proper smoothing and you could make the columns less sides) and the hands (I know they're cool but they're never that big in this map, so it could have less detail).

I should add that if you can get it to run well without simplifying the meshes, then that's great, but if you do have to reduce anything I'd rather it was the meshes than the textures :)

virax

01-22-2003, 05:51 PM

Ah, one more comment. The texture/shader or w/e you used on the LiquidSurfaceInfo, sorta'... doesn't work. When I look at it, it's so transparent, it looks more like really reflective/shiney snow, rather than water in the snow.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Virax
Ah, one more comment. The texture/shader or w/e you used on the LiquidSurfaceInfo, sorta'... doesn't work. When I look at it, it's so transparent, it looks more like really reflective/shiney snow, rather than water in the snow.

Heh. I was actually going to say the opposite. Until you make it move (dying in it helps ;) ) you don't even notice it, but once you know it's water, it looks very realistic.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 05:58 PM

Now I have one more comment. I'm just rebuilding the map with some of the antiportals removed, to see if it helps, and the BSP lightmaps are taking forever to build. Since a lot of the BSP is covered in meshes, I wonder if you could get away with lower-res lightmaps on some of the surfaces? This will make a big difference to the filesize, the lightmaps can account for about half of it.

virax

01-22-2003, 05:58 PM

Uhh... I notice it, but not that's it a surface, ya' know? Just the reflection I see. It's not the water that seems unrealistic (like I said in my previous), cause you barely notice it. But what you do notice (the reflection), makes the SNOW seem unrealistic.

legacy-Doctor7

01-22-2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Virax
But what you do notice (the reflection), makes the SNOW seem unrealistic.

Yeah, that's true. It would be possible to add a shader to the snow, using the same environment map, but we're looking for ways to make it run faster, not slower :p

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 06:54 PM

@ Virax

Great tips you are dead right on the health packs I am going to use all those tips for the next version :) The water is pretty bad looking in some ways... I reduced the grid size a lot so it would not impact the speeds :| It sucks kind of… because I had some nice water action going hehe a while back :D Ill try and find another texture that might fit better.

@ Doctor7

I can go into lowering the polys even more on the ones you mentioned. The hands was one I was going to do since I use those a lot. and the arches I agree are pretty high poly though they are not used a lot. The hands and some other ones that are used more should be the first to try.

The lift were you had problems getting on. I might of fixed this in the next version I had a problem with all three when they were in the top you could not go back to the movers because of a small lip that was hanging out so that was fixed not sure if that is the same problem though.

yep I agree on the anti-portals some like the thin ones are useless really... so those are going out.

And the Light maps was one other thing I was going to check out. were I can keep them and were they are not needed but yeah I think I went a little over board on those.

Thanks both :) this is great info and tips ill do pretty much everything mentioned if not done already like the texture alignment thing. I went through the whole level aligning textures.

virax

01-22-2003, 07:53 PM

Desperado: Just an idea... have you thought about making the 1024x1024 textures 512x512? I really have no idea how much affect this could have (both in decrease in graphics, and stutter), but it might be worth a try. Don't take it from me... try it if you think it could help with anything though. :D

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 08:22 PM

if I do a lot of things above and still it has that stutter on some people than I will think about textuers.

virax

01-22-2003, 08:31 PM

Ok, cool. Don't do it just for me though, unless you really want to. I have solved current stutter at the moment, so it's all good. If you think it'll fix stutter on alot of other machines though, then it'd be a good idea. I'm REALLY looking forward to the next release! :D

legacy-P1nky

01-22-2003, 08:51 PM

You guys get to test this map? I'd very much like to get a beta test if you would allow it Desp. :up:

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 09:27 PM

I am pretty much allowing anybody who asks ;) to beta test this map. So ill send you a link for beta 3 toammrow I think if not friday night or the weekend but I think it will be tommarow.

The reason I am letting all the people that ask is simple I want to know how this map runs on different systems. but I still do not want to make public as in putting a link here etc... It would spread out of control.

virax

01-22-2003, 10:20 PM

When you send out the links, could I get a BETA3 link as well? ;)

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-22-2003, 11:58 PM

yes Everyone who has BT the last one is getting beta 3 to test out.

I am thinking of scaling the texs down to 512 x 512 I will just have to rework the texsin some ways.

I might end up doing two maps for the beta 3 one with the 512 x 512 texs and another with the 1024 x 1024 texs and see how it works out... if it really makes differance in the long run.

virax

01-23-2003, 12:08 AM

Cool, I can dig that. :P
Meanwhile, I'm off to found your DM-Nirvana for the original UT, rofl. I still play UT1 quite alot, and I think it should be another worthy map for the collection! :)

legacy-Doctor7

01-23-2003, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by Virax
Cool, I can dig that. :P
Meanwhile, I'm off to found your DM-Nirvana for the original UT, rofl. I still play UT1 quite alot, and I think it should be another worthy map for the collection! :)

Look for the Orm Map Pack, it includes Nirvana and a few others that I liked just as much - Ragnarok is very similar, JadedBeauty and Jakatta are more traditional in layout but similar in style, although none of those are by Desp.

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-23-2003, 07:02 AM

The ORM Mappack was Amazing!.
Desp was saying how he and other fellow mappers may be redoing it soon.

Ragnorak, JadedBeauty + Nirvana were my Faves and the 1st 2 were made by and very talented Aussie mapper called Dean Tate.
I think he is also making a map at the mo as we been mailing each other a bit.

:p

legacy-Doctor7

01-23-2003, 05:43 PM

Desp

Your PM box is full so I'm posting this here before I forget.

After removing the antiportals, the worst spots in the map is the corner with the Flak Cannon - you can see 262,000 polys from there (although it still runs at 25-30FPS on my machine, which is quite impressive). So if you're going to put any antiportals back, that's one area you have to look at.

legacy-Blaaguuu

01-24-2003, 04:57 AM

well i havent played a single DM game since the demo.. and only played it a little then... btu i must say thsi map looks amazing!

once you have a final release, i might jsut have to fire up a DM game with some buds, and rock out on DM-Nirvana][ :D

legacy-Doctor7

01-24-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Doctor7
Desp

Your PM box is full so I'm posting this here before I forget.

Desp

Your PM box is still full!

Mine is now clear, sorry for the delay but I haven't been able to get on the site, my provider seemed to have lost half the internet for a while.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-24-2003, 05:03 PM

sorry about that just got back from school :)

virax

01-24-2003, 08:12 PM

Yo, dood. I've got some more screenshots with a few good ideas for bot pathing. I'll post them later tonight. =)

legacy-Tweak-fragger

01-24-2003, 09:48 PM

I would love to test this map!!! please link me in pm!

legacy-Teddie

01-24-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Virax

http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\light2.jpg

LoL.

Virax made me laugh at the ghost-like entity marking a texture issue.

Good suggestions, man!

virax

01-24-2003, 11:07 PM

Hehe, I never even noticed that Teddie. :P I'm currently looking for a location to upload the images of bot issues.

virax

01-24-2003, 11:22 PM

Okay, these are things that I think should really be in final. When I looked around, there were a few dark corners that bots wouldn't go to, but those don't matter, seeing as there's nothing to get there, and they'll probably dodge there on accident in the heat of battle. Just make sure that if they do, they can find their way back onto the main bot pathing trail-thingy (I believe there were no probs with this; so just ignore that comment unless you know otherwise). Here ya go.

http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\bot2.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\bot4.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\bot3.jpg
http://Virax.cycicle.cjb.net\bot1.jpg

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-25-2003, 12:14 AM

cool i give those a try... I got test the new bot stuff hehe :)

btw the beta 3 is delayed by a day becuase of some AC2 gaming :)

Besides the bot things you showed everything else has been done. except a few things.

-Elevator karma cull and fence cull

-Screenshots for the level and music... which I have to find. I might just put a blank music into it... I was never big with music in pure DM maps... :|

- a bsp problem that causes a darker than normal ceiling textuer to apear. does not affect gameplay but it looks bad

virax

01-25-2003, 12:55 AM

I don't mean to come off as acting like a know it all or something, but I've got another "tip". =P

Try making that squareish hole in a bit larger; it won't do much for the gameplay as it is. Unless it's there for looks or something. :bulb: If you dunno what squarish hole I'm talking about, I believe it's in the room I suggested that you add that bot trick jump to... it's just a squarish hole in the floor which could provide useful movement between levels if it were a bit larger, and it'd be nice to use as an escape route in spam fests, as well.

legacy-Radeon285

01-25-2003, 12:57 AM

Music you say, I vote on either KR-HELL, KR-SniperTime or Level2, please dont leave the map w/o music.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-26-2003, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Virax
I don't mean to come off as acting like a know it all or something, but I've got another "tip". =P

Try making that squareish hole in a bit larger; it won't do much for the gameplay as it is. Unless it's there for looks or something. :bulb: If you dunno what squarish hole I'm talking about, I believe it's in the room I suggested that you add that bot trick jump to... it's just a squarish hole in the floor which could provide useful movement between levels if it were a bit larger, and it'd be nice to use as an escape route in spam fests, as well.

Ill think about it Virax. I have not added all the bot support you asked yet but ill try to get most of it in. The bot jump thing is wierd I am still going to need to see how I can do that... so it might get out later on...

I am so close to finshing this map up!

Well for beta 3 that is... *me hopes it is final* lol

On the music... the music in UT2k3 is a tad to action packed. I was going to leave it out completly, but than decided to get a good friend to help me out for the music :)

IMHO it is great music :)

and well just to add to the all new aspect of this map... it will come with a great music track :D IMHO

I am trying to finsh this map as i write... I hope to finsh it in a few hours... upload, send, and, sleep....

Edit///

now that I see the hole i see why it is that small it has to do with the piller that is close to it. The piller stopes the trims from being smaller. And it is best that trims stay the same realtive size to the ones closest to them.

Now I have to go study some epic maps and see how epic made the bots do some of the jump tricks and see if I can do it :)

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-26-2003, 02:53 AM

BUMP// Sorry for bump ;)

This is a bump to tell the Beta testers who have tested or asked to beta test beta3 of Nirvana][... that it should be in your PM box or e-mail.

If I missed someone just tell me here and ill send it to you...

well later till tommarow... well hmm.... more like later in the day... it is 2:59am here lol... ahhhh mapping what an addiction :)

legacy-Loosecontroll6

01-26-2003, 06:27 AM

Hey desp.

Just mailed you!
You are on 2 a definate Winner with this map mate and music is cool.

:D

legacy-[SEOD]--|Ripley

01-26-2003, 06:56 AM

Hi Desperado
If you need anymore Beta testers i would very much like to help, Thought i would just ask on here as your PM box is most likely screaming at the moment lol.

legacy-Doctor7

01-26-2003, 07:01 AM

Desp,

If you need any more feedback on the optimisation, let me know. Otherwise I'm happy to wait for the release version, I need to spend more time on my own map and less time playing other people's :)

legacy-§uper-]V[oose

01-26-2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Desperado#2-Rog
On the music... the music in UT2k3 is a tad to action packed. I was going to leave it out completly, but than decided to get a good friend to help me out for the music :)
The Brush? :)

legacy-Corporal Hicks

01-26-2003, 09:22 AM

wow! thats look f******* cool! That is the best map i have seen so far.... It seems like that map there includes thousands of billions new textures and static meshes....

btw, anyone interested in joining my mod team? just mail me if you might be. Genetic X

legacy-P1nky

01-26-2003, 06:15 PM

I'd still like to test this map very much.
If you sent me the actual file, it must not have gone through because the file size is too big.
If you can email me the link to where I can download it, I would appreciate that, and do my best to offer feedback.

virax

01-26-2003, 07:14 PM

http://www.planetunreal.com/architectonic/tutorials/first_level_part9.html - Dig that! It'll get you some help in advancing your bot pathing skills. :)

Edit: Uhh... it looks like I didn't get Beta 3.

legacy-Lemon

01-26-2003, 10:26 PM

Beta 3 rocks. You fixed that big problem i had noticed, and its now "done". Im my opinion.

Great work,

This map rules.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-26-2003, 10:33 PM

Thanks :) before I release it 100% I sent the beta to Cliffyb so he can give me some opinions about it :) I also still have to do tiny little things... the bot thing and a light error...

I can not thank you guys enough who have or are beta testing this map. You guys have been a great help. This basically makes IFG forums my new home for map news posting and the works.

Thanks again all :)

legacy-1BIGDIRTNAP

01-26-2003, 11:08 PM

that map looks so nice and it's a DM even better :up:
great to hear this will be your new home too:D

legacy-Radeon285

01-26-2003, 11:21 PM

<---Hasnt got Beta3 yet Desperado, hope you remembered to send it over here...

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-26-2003, 11:39 PM

I just tried to send you the beta 3 link... but you PM was full and you email is locked.

legacy-Radeon285

01-26-2003, 11:56 PM

try sending me a PM now, turns out a had alot of messages I never deleted

legacy-Radeon285

01-27-2003, 12:59 AM

Ok, just finished up a session with 3 bots. Graphics wise, this map is frikken buetiful, extremely well executed. Bots played pretty good, I still handed their ass to them but they put up a good fight at the beginning. Map flows well also. Bugs? Just FPS issues, otherwise, great map man!

legacy-P1nky

01-27-2003, 07:45 PM

FPS on average was about 10 fps lower than the average Epic map.
But the map is absolutely beautiful, so I think it makes up for that :)
I noticed your lighting is very nice, and I kept saying to myself "very good use of projectors" but then I soon realized it was not projectors at all, but just a Light Map level of 2.
I just learned about Light Maps yesterday, and through this, I hear that low light maps can hurt FPS a bit. And seeing how much of your map has a light map of 2, this 'bit of FPS loss' may have translated into a large loss of FPS.
Have you thought of boosting the light map back up, and then using projectors instead? Maybe there will be a significant FPS increase.
Otherwise, absolutely stunning map, with great flow and gameplay.

legacy-Desperado#2-Rog

01-27-2003, 07:47 PM

Well I will be releasing this map today!

Ill make a new post about it :)

I will fix some things indicated by some people and cliffyb

than upload it to BeyondUnreal,nalicity,and fileplanet if anybody can suggest anymore places I can upload just give a post here :)

legacy-Doctor7

01-27-2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by P1nky
I noticed your lighting is very nice, and I kept saying to myself "very good use of projectors" but then I soon realized it was not projectors at all, but just a Light Map level of 2.
I just learned about Light Maps yesterday, and through this, I hear that low light maps can hurt FPS a bit. And seeing how much of your map has a light map of 2, this 'bit of FPS loss' may have translated into a large loss of FPS.

As far as I know, Lightmaps should only hurt FPS if the sheer amount of them fills up your graphics card memory. Other than that, they're all pre-rendered.
Lightmaps were actually one of the things we discussed as part of optimising, and last I heard Desp had knocked 10Mb off the map size by using 4 instead of 2. The value is proportional to the size of the surface, so you only need 1 or 2 on very large surfaces.