Tonumbra [BETA][UPDATE]

[legacy-HortonsWho]

I'd appreciate anybody who has the time to DL this and give it a look.

Currently, no bases yet... a few weapons, no bots. I've been working hard to create a realistic outdoor feel... The terrain and flora/fauna is settling in... today was mostly tweaking sound design.

The hanging lamps in the trees and the simple stone table are just placeholders for custom meshes coming soon.

Any feedback on the "atmosphere" would be much welcome.

Map & a screenie (click thumb)here:

http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=50

Thanks:)

[legacy-/\psalus]

I will be trying it shortly, but just from the screenie, the terrain looks like you have worked it over pretty well.

[legacy-kitzingmarko]

right, looks much better than my try...
keep it coming.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Thanks--- yes, I've put a lot of time in the terrain/weather/sound. I am weakest where it counts most: man-made stuff. :sour: There won't be all that much but still... can't just add a cube or six to this setting very well now can I?

I just looked at an early version of the custom lamps... they'll really add something special, I hope.

Version 4 is now up--- more sound design, even some lightning but the effect isn't right yet.

http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=50

[legacy-/\psalus]

Version 4 was the one I pulled. The FX (birds, rain, thunder) is very rich. I like it a lot. The fog is also very well done; it is not too thick/dark. I am not a fan of DM, but this map seems better suited for it b/c of it's size. Unless you plan on at least doubling it's size/scale, I don't know if it would turn out very well for CTF. Just a thought.

Keep up the good work! :up:

[Plumb_Drumb]

Its more than big enough.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Wow-- double the size for CTF? I don't think so... historically, players in our game servers prefer smaller maps and this one is about as large as a game of CTf could stomach... I have been pondering BR.

Now.... if I could just figure out the lightning... The UDN tuts work but I have to refigure scale... Actually, I'm more interested in just sheet lightning--- not stick/branch lightning... any thoughts on how to best make that work? I'd like an occasional and random flash/flicker that would cover the map.

???

[Plumb_Drumb]

sorry, not knowledgable enough to help you there.

I do want to say that, whether you go CTF or BR, just don't plop the flags or the goals right on the bare ground and call it done. Try to gussy up the goals or maybe use custom goals altogether.

Some sweet CTF bases should be made, if you choose that gametype instead.

[legacy-/\psalus]

It is a nice size, but I guess I just usually envision outdoor CTF maps as being huge. You are making the map, I just made a comment. I just ran through it again with the Bulldog this time and I noticed the wind up on the hill tops; very sw33t! After bombing around in the Bulldog for a few minutes, I also noticed how well it handled on the terrain. I have driven the Bulldog in every map included in the retail (minus the small, indoor ones) and the 80+ others I have DL and I have to say, it handles the best in this map. I have a mutator that turns the TL into a Bulldog-launcher and a mod that makes the Bulldog heavier (it also mentioned that it made it 4wd in the description, but it doesn't) This map would be very well suited for wheeled-vehicles. I am not suggesting that you add a Bulldog spawn, but if you decide to make maps for vehicles later, use your technique for terrain that you used in this one.

[legacy-/\psalus]

I am sorry that I can't offer any more than just suggestions. Regarding the flag bases, a small turret for a sentry protruding from a hill side overlooking an entrance below it might be the way to go. If you have the internal bunker halls run laterally along the inside of the hills, you could make fair sized rooms in the corners of the map.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Thanks for the thoughts, /\psalus!

Size-- it was just funny... most everybody else has told me it's borderline too large... You're the fifth person who suggested bulldogging... I've been meaning to try it.

Danke-

[legacy-/\psalus]

Bitteschön(grammar?)! ich weiß nur deutsches wenig.

These are the modifications I use:

The mod to make the BD handle better:
http://www.ut2003hq.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=38

The BD TL-Spawn mutator:
http://www.ut2003hq.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=92

[InfiniteWeird]

WOW! Looks like you have a very good eye for detail. The terrain looks very realistic and you've done an excellent job on giving the map good atmosphere. Too many people just do a terrible job of using the terrain editor, and for that reason I'm afraid to even look at a lot of maps that use it. You've pulled it off though, I look forward to seeing the final version. :up:

PS. Any plans for keeping people from going out to the edge of the terrain? Like with a fence or a blocking volume? Also do you plan on putting more terrain in the sky box to make it appear it goes on forever? :D

Edit:
I think the size is perfect for a good CTF map, I would really hate if you changed it. :)

[InfiniteWeird]

After wondering around a little longer I found a small bug in the map. Dunno if you know of it already, I figured I would show you just in case.

Not too far from the spawn area just before the watery pit where the tag laser is if you look at the trees there something is messed up:


http://www.divinia.com/dvna/upload/bug1.jpg

Even though that one tree is in front of the others the leafs appear they are behind the trees in the background. Down below those trees is the pit with the water and the tag laser. Hope this helps, if you need me to be more specific or take a few more screens just ask. :)

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Yeah--- the branches popping in and out has something to do with proximity to other meshes... still fussing over that.

Actually, there are blocking volumes in place so you can't get all the way to the wall. Getting the fog to blend well with the sky box was tough... so adding terrain and distance... probably not.

Finally have occasional, random sheet/cloud lightning working.


THANKS!

[InfiniteWeird]

Yeah I noticed you put blocking volumes in shortly after I posted that. If I could make another suggestion, Why not block players from going out that far. Maybe move it in just a tad. You could also add that cool fence mesh around the parameter of your level, it might make it look a bit more realistic.

Also, I think it is cool that you didn't use the pick up bases for the pickups, but you should add small emitters where the pickups are so that they are slightly more visible. :) Plus it will look kinda cool too. :D

[legacy-/\psalus]

I kind of like the road around the perimeter just over the top of the hills *Bulldoggin'* Heh.

[legacy-/\psalus]

I almost forgot to mention this. In every custom outdoor map containing trees,that I have tried, the tree branches are always solid. You can't move through them like you can the trees in any of the stock maps. Please consider this as a possible fix. It drives me nuts not to be able to move through trees at ground level.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

The only way to deal with the tree issue is to use the trunks and foliage that are separate meshes then change the collision settings on the foliage.. kinda tedious. I actually want the foliage to block you around the bogs so it is more difficult to get to the goodie in the bog.

Thanks

[legacy-HortonsWho]

An updated beta. (http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=50) And new screenshots.

A test-run of new meshes(lamps) by The_Stranger. They are currently floating... no bracket.support. Testing lighting in them. Sheet lightning, thunder and many other little tweaks to atmosphere.

Feedback welcome. A big thanks for all the downloads of earlier versions and all the great email feedback. :) Please keep it coming.

[InfiniteWeird]

It's looking sharp dude.. :up: I can't wait to see the final version.

[legacy-Fum]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
The only way to deal with the tree issue is to use the trunks and foliage that are separate meshes then change the collision settings on the foliage

Actually that’s not true. The way it's normally done is by, in the Static Mesh's properties, in Collision, set bBlockNonZeroExtendTraces to false. This will make the tree block everything but the players. Now you add a Blocking Volume (http://udn.epicgames.com/pub/Content/VolumesTutorial/) (I use a six sided cylinder, normally) around the tree trunk so you can walk through the branches/leaves, but it will seem as though your being blocked by the trunk. You really should do this because: A. Its annoying and unrealistic being blocked by the leaves, and B. The simple cylinder collision will speed everything up. :)

[legacy-Fum]

Originally posted by X PsychoTron X
After wondering around a little longer I found a small bug in the map. Dunno if you know of it already, I figured I would show you just in case.

Not too far from the spawn area just before the watery pit where the tag laser is if you look at the trees there something is messed up:

(image)

Even though that one tree is in front of the others the leafs appear they are behind the trees in the background. Down below those trees is the pit with the water and the tag laser. Hope this helps, if you need me to be more specific or take a few more screens just ask. :)

Their seems to be a problem with semi transparent textures on static meshes being incorrectly rendered in-front or behind other static meshes. I have been messing around with different settings for a while and have not found a proper workaround/solution for this issue. It is getting really quite frustrating, as I've been forced to edit or remove some of the foliage in my upcoming map due to this...

HortonsWho, (hey, that name gives me an idea...) I'll give you some feedback concerning your map once I finish downloading it. :)

[legacy-HortonsWho]

FUM-- Thanks for the tip on volumes. /me dope-slaps forehead, says, OMG, of course! I actually want some foliage around the bogs to block as a way to make the painter a little tougher to get at. But I'll do that to help optimize definitely. Hmmmm.... /me mails Fum $5 for best idea of the week.

Picky question (since I am new to mapping). Do the number of sides of a blocking volume effect processing/performance? Will a BV that is a 20-sided cylinder require more eneergy from your rig than one that is six? Not that it matters much to how things collide.



About the transparency thing. I've seen a few maps where objects, like health vials, are upon grated, semi-transparent flooring and you get the same problem of one showing through the other.

[legacy-Fum]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
Picky question (since I am new to mapping). Do the number of sides of a blocking volume effect processing/performance? Will a BV that is a 20-sided cylinder require more eneergy from your rig than one that is six? Not that it matters much to how things collide.

About the transparency thing. I've seen a few maps where objects, like health vials, are upon grated, semi-transparent flooring and you get the same problem of one showing through the other.

Yeah, the number of sides on the blocking volume will effect peformance. To a very small degree, but it will. Trust me, no one will notice the difference between a six sided cylinder or a twenty sided one.

I hope epic fixes this transparency problem soon. I'm a bit suprised they let something like this pass, (I'm sure they have their reasons, though) I would think their mappers must have been forced to change some of the maps because of this, or be restricted by what they could do with transparent textures.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

OK---

I put blocking volumes around all the trees and changed them so the foliage allows people through... For starters... I guess I don't need them around all the trees..... DOH!


Performance went down 25%!!!

I had intended to use foliage to block some areas intentionally. I can't afford a 25% hit in fps. In a map this open I can only optimize so much...



:weird:

[legacy-HortonsWho]

The next beta version is up with screenies HERE. (http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=50)

Thanks for the great emails and feedback to date!

[legacy-/\psalus]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
The next beta version is up with screenies HERE. (http://www.unrealplayground.com/mapper.php?id=50)

Thanks for the great emails and feedback to date!

Downloading now. Dinner in a minute. Review later tonight. ;)

[InfiniteWeird]

Sweet gonna check it out... :D

[InfiniteWeird]

I get this error when I try to launch your map:

UT2003 Build UT2003_Build_[2002-10-28_01.28]

OS: Windows 2000 5.0 (Build: 2195)
CPU: AuthenticAMD PentiumPro-class processor @ 1668 MHz with 1535MB RAM
Video: NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600 (4072)

Failed to enter C:\PROGRA~1\UT2003\Maps\CTF-TO~1.UT2: Can't find file for package 'Rocks'

History: UGameEngine::Init <- InitEngine

Did you forget to include a package?

[legacy-/\psalus]

Psycho got to it before me. :p

[InfiniteWeird]

Originally posted by /\psalus
Psycho got to it before me. :p

Same stuff eh? :weird:

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Sorry-- just saw that myself... funny--- I imported it and played fine... something awry--- I'll check it out.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

I did a reinstall and somehow managed to foul that package. Easy fix, I just included it in the zip.

Please give it another try, mates.

TY

[InfiniteWeird]

w00t

[InfiniteWeird]

Looks like you are going a great job, but if you don’t mind I would like to put in my two cents. :D First off the xEmitter you are using for the camp fire needs a little bit of work. Doesn’t quite look like a real flame. Also the lights in those nifty lamps, some of them aren’t quite centered. Besides that all I would say it needs is for you to make it so not all of the trees block players (I know you wanted them to block people around the pits.) but if you change just the ones in the main area so that only the stump blocks players it would make it a lot more playable in the end.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Thanks Psycho--

I changed several of the trees--- if you see troublemakers, email me a screen shot.

Trouble: I put that plame in as a placeholder... still tweaking...

does the tumbled tree/hut look convincing?

[InfiniteWeird]

Yeah the tumbled tree/hut looks alright. I'll keep my eyes out for any trouble makers. Later tonight after I'm done screwing around with my map I'll go give yours a good once over and look for any bugs/problems for you. As far as I can tell though it is pretty much bug free at the moment.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

I upped another version with realigned lights, a new hut with better fire/visuals... I haven't seen a great fire yet, either in the Epic maps or in what I've been able to come up with. This one is better... just can't get used to the slo-mo fire.

[InfiniteWeird]

Let me snap a few quick screens of the fire I've got set up. I managed to make it look pretty convincing. Maybe it will help you out. To be honest the fire texture that came with the game sucks cause it over laps. :(

[InfiniteWeird]

Here you go:

Download (http://www.oniclan.com/psycho-tron/Fire.zip)

These are a few screen shots I took of some fire I made, I messed around with it for quite a while and managed to get it looking pretty convincing. Although the flame textures that come with the game aren't that great. I've been thinking about making my own. Hope it helps. :)

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Thanks!

I'll give it a try

[legacy-HortonsWho]

It's a good fire effect but not exactly what I had wnated. However, tweaking the fire I had, doubling the emitter and ADDING your effect has created a pretty cool effect. Thanks m8.


I have some other static meshes "on order" ;) that will probably be ready in December so this map might rest a bit. Until then, more feedback is welcome!

:up:

[InfiniteWeird]

Haha cool, I can't wait to see the final version. The map I'm working on is probably another few weeks away at the least. I work pretty slowly. :weird: Hopefully by the first of the year we will start seeing some of the better custom maps finalized. :D

[legacy-/\psalus]

Updates? :up:

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Nothing ready to show, sorry gang. Waiting on a friend who is making a whopper of a mesh... if it doesn't work out I'll need to do a little revising.

I've added a host of custom birdsong and am twiddling with little things... Once the meshes get done, it would probably be pretty quick to release after that.

[InfiniteWeird]

Sweet! :up:

[legacy-/\psalus]

Good to hear! :cool:

[Emmet Otter]

You know me horton! Im still waiting for your final release.

[legacy-HortonsWho]

Roger that!

[legacy-/\psalus]

The name would make a good chant: Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra! Tonumbra!

lol

Updates?

[legacy-/\psalus]

And what is up with the "Please Delete Me" message icon? :down:

[Sharpfish]

"And what is up with the "Please Delete Me" message icon? "

I bet it was because this thread started way back before the old formatting requirement [map:ctf] etc - so didnt get automagically converted to the correct icon. Could be wrong though :P

<edit> as I thought, I WAS wrong - the thread says MAPCTF so therefore I think its just cos the thread is old and damp. ;)


Having read this thread months later (now) the bit about the trees caught my attention, seems the blocking volume thing is common.However when a LOT of trees are going to be placed its all BSP still on each BV. IMO it`s better to duplicate the tree to your `mylevel` package and just turn off collision on the material i.d of the leaves. This is what I did in festive Ridge cos I too hated not being able to walk through tree leaves. Also in the case of that map I was adding a customized/edited texture to the leaves of the tree so it paid off there too (instead of specifying a new skin to each tree).

Sharpfish

[Emmet Otter]

I dont think horton will ever finish this map:(

[legacy-dogyears]

Excellent map - Great atmosphere ! Reminds me of Tasmania on a rainy day (which is, almost everday). Moody and chill.

I have, hoever, some nitpicks.

I understand you've given the trees a little "variation" so the player won't notice it's all the same model, but I find the current "stretching" a bit of an overkill - not only do the trees look stretched - but real forests do not usually have such steep variations in height.

I'd also like to see more variation in the map, more interest, so to speak. Not necessarily in terms of more "man made objects", but simple touches such as fallen logs or dying trees will go a long way from making this "a terrain with fog and rain" The trees seem quite low poly, so more trees are always a good thing.

I hope this helps.

[legacy-/\psalus]

No updates? :cry: