Melee's, Uber chainsaw, and a million shell casings

[walerah]

hiya all, couldn't find an apt thread to post my concerns so here goes.

btw I'm taking most of my assumptions from the "Race to E3" clip so obviously they are just that ...assumptions from a probably no representative of the final product playtest.



First off, the chainsaw ...i must say it's a truly breath taking piece of kit ...and I love the splatter BUT watching the race to e3 (final playtest) Mark Rein (epic VP) was clearly dismayed he couldn't "use the shotgun when in close" now from the little of the combat I caught he was up against ...yes you guessed it! a chain saw. and while upon contact the chainsaw should be the obvious winner it should never trump a shotgun (cos each shotgun blast SHOULD maybe have the effect of pushing the chainsaw wielder back each time or at the very least stopping him in his tracks) now this has me worried, I've read running debates contrasting the chainsaw and a certain mastercheifs sword and I hope the saw animation doesn't have a magnetic force pull within a certain radius, cos thats what it looks like (ie the animation takes over the opponent??)

secondly ...in all the vids I've seen there's no actual melee not with the lancer and not with the shotgun ...just the chainsaw, it's prolly easier to tap the button and bash some heads but there's the obvious preference for the chainsaw, I'm guessing this didn't make it into the demo then.

Lastly and quite a popular one outside the gears forum is the amount of rounds needed to drop a locust, I know they're big and bad but even in halo the resilience is explained by an over shield and those without shields are dropped very quickly ...personally half the amount of ammo it currently takes would still be tedious, it's amazing for a while (a short while) to behold the muzzle flash and the impact flesh splatter BUT (and I dont know how many hours of gameplay there is to be had in GoW) after a few hours this just might do your head in emptying 2 clips into 1 locust ...and rinse and repeat

[Uday23]

thats just how gears is, the enemies are strong and hard to kill, thas why u need to cover, shoot, cover, shoot...and Gears does have Regular Melee and i think it Was at e3, and The chainsaw does kind of "take over" the enemy but i am guessing u have to be really close!

[soda]

the disadvantage of the chainsaw is you have to be up close and personal to use it, so you could be blasted to smithereens before you got close enouhg to sink your metal teeth in, in a way

[chron1caust]

The shotgun should and probably will have more range than the chainsaw, and maybe it'll be like the sword in halo2. Like how you can stop a sword person with a shotty.

[soda]

The shotgun should and probably will have more range than the chainsaw, and maybe it'll be like the sword in halo2. Like how you can stop a sword person with a shotty.
quite easily,
ive done it on may occasions.
when they lunge at you you have to shoot them in the head at the last second and they die.
Or you could side-step the sword person then turn around and shoot

[walerah]

The shotgun should and probably will have more range than the chainsaw, and maybe it'll be like the sword in halo2. Like how you can stop a sword person with a shotty.
as you say ...should have more range, however from watching the final playtest (again) mark rein "you gotta be able to use the shotgun when you're in close... like it's ...thats really annoying" word for word. why can't you use the shotgun when in close? anyways question for anyone who know...

can you switch over the shoulder perspective's? from the default right shoulder to left? (ala GRAW) cos coming around a right hand corner with the OTS view from your right means your body is exposed long before your reticle can acquire your target on the right side of a wall. obviously using cover would check this but say youre not in cover?

[Brumak]

is this where you get your kicks bashing very minor issues w/ G.O.W




(give you something to think about next time you write something negative.....the game is not coming out until fall. 4-5-6 months to polish this game and make it truly shine.im sure the shotgun will be fixed by then,and as for your whining about how tough the enemies are....you select the difficulty at the beggining of the game.so do your research and think before you start bashing a game for very minor issues.)


:mad:

[D3LTA 38]

Yeah the enemies are not like the Elite in Halo 2 were maybe 3 to 4 shots from a BR will put them down. They are MONSTERS and will take a while to kill them. I do believe however that they will have weaker enemys but this is not sure. The Shotgun will be improved I hope; they have 6 months.;)

[ban381]

One thing i'v learned about this forum is that people will defend GoW like they have been playing it for years. There is absolutly nothing wrong for them, it is perfect.

None of us really know how the game is, you cant really defend it or go against it - you can only give your opinion on things. I really think im gonna enjoy this game more then any game i'v ever played, but thats just my opinion. That doesnt mean i dont have concerns about some of the things i saw.

So yes, the game is coming out 4-5-6 months later, and the shotgun could be fixed by then - but who said its even broken? Maybe thats how the shotgun works.

He wasnt wining about how tough the enemies are, he was expressing his feeling on how boring a game might get after shooting at an enemy for so long.

Dont bash someone for giving his opinions. He wasnt bashing the game - he was just expressing his concerns (concerning something he SAW in a video).

And if you want my opinion, i think epic knows what they're doing. Ill give them the benefit of the doubt that whatever is blatently broken will be resolved.

[Zoso Fan]

EPIC will make this feature fun, fair, and entirely functional! No worries :)

[Snake]

Actually if you saw that one episode of Mythbusters, a bullet(s) won't knock someone backwards. Every action has a reaction, and if you were to shoot someone and expect them to fly backwards when the bullets hit, you should equally expect yourself to fly backwards from the force of firing these amazing super bullets.

I understand what you mean, the guy holds down b and you get sucked into the chainsaw animation and you're done for. Perhaps the chainsaw should have a drastically shorter range or something, or other weapons could have an equally devastating melee attack. Also, remember in response to the shotgun complaint Cliffy later said that he wanted people at E3 using the chainsaw as much as possible, there could have been some tweaks made.

As for taking an entire ammunition dump to get through a level, I agree with you. It seemed like you could shoot and shoot and shoot the Locust but it would take forever to drop the suckers. I understand these are big burly dudes that could snap your neck like a twig given the chance, but I think one magazine emptied into his chest should be enough to drop him, right? Maybe it's just that the weapon sound is faster than the actual bullets fire though, creating the illusion that the gun is firing faster than it is. Maybe the magazine capacity isn't extremely high for the Lancer and it isn't really taking too long to take down enemies considering it's actual rate of fire and mag size.

And a thing I have learned from these forums, is that some people will go to phenomenal lengths to try and pick apart and bash a game that they have never played. To me that's just as bad if not worse than idolizing the game. Innocent until proven guilty.

btw, welcome to the forum Wal :)

[Uday23]

as you say ...should have more range, however from watching the final playtest (again) mark rein "you gotta be able to use the shotgun when you're in close... like it's ...thats really annoying" word for word. why can't you use the shotgun when in close? anyways question for anyone who know...

can you switch over the shoulder perspective's? from the default right shoulder to left? (ala GRAW) cos coming around a right hand corner with the OTS view from your right means your body is exposed long before your reticle can acquire your target on the right side of a wall. obviously using cover would check this but say youre not in cover?

the game will automatically switch depending on whichever way ur are leaning out of cover!...dont know if u can do this when ur not in cover, but probably not

[Uday23]

EPIC will make this feature fun, fair, and entirely functional! No worries :)

Exact-o-mundo!

[ban381]

And a thing I have learned from these forums, is that some people will go to phenomenal lengths to try and pick apart and bash a game that they have never played. To me that's just as bad if not worse than idolizing the game. Innocent until proven guilty.

Phenomenal lengths? He loves the chainsaw animation, and doesnt want it to become similiar to halo's sword in cheapness...

Phenomenal is how someone can justify everything for something they have no experience with. I'd hate to call anyone in this forum a fanboy. (and before anyone compares fanboy with being a fan, no its not the same thing. A fan likes the game for what it is, and accepts it faults. A fanboy will bash anyone else who doesnt have the same views that he has. No matter how ridiculous it might be. Like brumaks reply about choosing a difficulty, yet most people here speculate that cliffyb chose easy before starting the presentation.)


Innocent until proven guilty.

That doesnt work for me man, im forking over money for this product, they need to PROVE to me that their innocent :lol
(im gonna leave that sentence like that to see if someone flames me)

lol, we seem to be having 2 discussions in two different threads but your the only one giving me a good discussion.

[walerah]

is this where you get your kicks bashing very minor issues w/ G.O.W




(give you something to think about next time you write something negative.....the game is not coming out until fall. 4-5-6 months to polish this game and make it truly shine.im sure the shotgun will be fixed by then,and as for your whining about how tough the enemies are....you select the difficulty at the beggining of the game.so do your research and think before you start bashing a game for very minor issues.)


:mad:

read the intro Brunak ..."assumptions from a prolly non representative of the final product ...playtest"

listen to yourself Brumak ..."next time I write something negative?" are you naive enough to think EVERYTHING in GoW is positive? I'm not the MS exec who said the "AI is c r a p" ...or told the programmer there's "tonnes of bugs in this thing" (I know it's been fixed but I'm raising that to say that sometimes some minor things need highlighting) I'm voicing my observations and yes some of them negative because I am a big fan, I've been watching the clips, reading the reviews and now I'm joining the forums so I can discuss the game, I've been reading it a lot I was encouraged that the epic team are active on these forums ...

go play Black Arrow, Driv3r or even GRAW and learn that even after years of devving a game can still have so many "minor issues" it all adds up to one major dissapointment ...as mark rein said "it's so annoying"

I don't get kicks bashing (and what in my post is bashing or whining) minor issues I live a fuller life than that.

your position is that there's no negatives in GoW or that no one has a right to say anything negative?

if you couldn't add anything to the thread then abstain ...is this where you get your kicks ...being a detractor and a fanboy that shouts everyone down?

glad to see there's sound people who can give an opinion plus or minus...


Like brumaks reply about choosing a difficulty, yet most people here speculate that cliffyb chose easy before starting the presentation.)


well said ban,381 if he did any research he'd prolly know by now that changing the difficulty impacts the AI aggression and not the number of rounds needed to drop them ...pfft!


thanks for the welcome Snake

[ban381]

your position is that there's no negatives in GoW or that no one has a right to say anything negative?

THAT, is what i'v been complaining about.

[UnrealWars]

go play Black Arrow, Driv3r or even GRAW and learn that even after years of devving a game can still have so many "minor issues" it all adds up to one major dissapointment ...as mark rein said "it's so annoying"

Driv3r didn't have minor issues, it had a TON of issues. GRAW on the other hand does have minor issues but dosent detract from the great gameplay. Every game is going to have some king of issues. Its trying to minimize the number of minor issues to make a great games. Knowing Epic games and there past history with games. I have confidence that they will do the best job they can with eliminating minor problems:)

[JustinR]

It may take abit to kill the enemies but and I have read this in alot of previews from various sites that the AI is excellent in this game.You can look at it from two ways either your way where you may seem it might get a little boring.However if the AI is good and they are also moving and hiding that can make for some great intense fire fights.

You compare it to Halo but it is different.Halo is easy unless you play it on Legendary for the most part it is easy.Gears from what I've seen and everything I say is with speculation but it'll be in your face up close and personal tpye gameplay.The game is looking in the action/survival horror type category so you are going to have closed in areas.

The one thing that I see that really is why I am interested so much in this game is it has that 30 seconds of fun as people like to say but the fighting in this game looks to be alot more intense and it seems like every time you enter a fight your going to be challenged and your gonna worry about being killed.Your in small areas with enemies and you have to worry about if the guy in the corner is gonna throw a grenade or is he sneaking over while your shooting the guy over here.

I like the idea of moving from cover to cover and from the demo video online that Cliffy was showing off it looks like it's going to be super easy to move from place to place and although cover has been used to this extent.Kill switch did but it was much more linear and for that the game wasn't drawn out as much as it could of been.

Also with this game I think it has a Resident Evil 4 type thing going on where you go from area to area killing things but then there is the rail segment that breaks up the gameplay and I am sure there will be many more things like this that keep the game moving and break up the action into different parts so it doesn't become repetitive.

Multiplayer will be good I mean were talking about Epic so it wont be some half assed multiplayer add on like alot of 360 games seem to be doing.And that wraps up this post as it is getting way to freggin long lol.

[Brumak]

I apologize for getting a little steamed Walerah.no hard feelings :)

BTW welcome!

[walerah]

I apologize for getting a little steamed Walerah.no hard feelings :)

BTW welcome!


no hard feeling here Brumak (although I was looking for your gamertag to mark you down for emergence day ...oooh how I'd love to chainsaw that Brumak ...grrrrrr :mad: ) ;) though you should put you gamertag in ...it completes the profile.

*** to anyone who read my previous post, where I said Black Arrow I meant Lock Down *** Black Arrow was really good.

Unreal wars I hear ya on Driv3r ...my point was sometimes? left to themselves game devs can follow their own direction and on launch day fans are left scratching their heads ...like lockdown.

I haven't played any epic games before (shock Horror!) but going by the clips and the anticipation surrounding GoW they must be a cracking dev team, I had to "jump in" the forums cos the vibe was good and the site is not half bad either.

[Snake]

What I'm trying to say Ban, is that all you have done is try to criticize points that don't warrant criticizing. When I referred to people bashing, I was referring to you, nobody else. You're trying to call out faults in things that have proven themselves not to be faulty, and it seems you would prefer this game to cater specifically to your tastes.

I think Josh Sawyer said it best:

"The point, in case zealots ever want to accept it, is that your tastes are not the only tastes in the world. Really, I know this may be hard to believe, but if you like playing a turn-based game set in three counties of Utah in 2242, and you like miniguns but don't like lasers, and you like the ratio of combat to dialogue to be about 4:1, and you like cars that look more like Buicks than Pontiacs, and you think 50s-style monsters are okay but 50s-style aliens aren't, and you think Max's jacket from Mad Max is okay but the football pad armour isn't, and you don't like it when italics are used in dialogue but you do like it when boldface is used, and you want it to be longer than 100 hours but no longer than 120 hours, and like games to be non-linear but only to a point, and like big cities, but only two because four is too much BUT HEY NOT THAT ONE, and you like the desert but don't mind a little grass BUT HEY NOT THAT MUCH BECAUSE IT'S NOT FALLOUT...I am terribly, terribly sorry, because we are not going to make a game just for you. We're not trying to make a game for everyone. Really, we aren't. But we're not making a game just for you and ten other angry guys with tastes that are narrower than a hallway in a camp of pygmy dwarves. "

[Ma1agate]

Snake, dude. Seriously.

You're really making it hard for people not to put the fanboy label on you. None of us would be here if we weren't looking forward to GoW. Ban has said here and in other threads that you can't judge before experiencing it firsthand. I completely agree.

You absolutely cannot say that Ban is "trying to call out faults in things that have proven themselves not to be faulty". I'm sorry bud, but that just doesn't fly at all.

What proof? Where? The game is still in dev, man. Get a grip. Have you played the latest build? If you haven't, then you can't say that anything has been proven or not. The game isn't complete.

All we have to go on at the moment is the footage and other info that's been put out there and the reactions from people with firsthand experience. And even the firsthand experience that IS out there is going to be coming from a particular point of of view, and will therefore be biased.

Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I don't see Ban (especially Ban) or anyone else voicing any really unjust concerns. Nobody but Epic knows what Epic fully intends for the game, not you, not any of us, only Epic. So we can only make educated guesses and put our concerns out there ahead of time.

If we can state valid, well-thought-out concerns, maybe Epic will listen. Maybe they won't.

Obviously they're going to make a game that they think is fun. They've got their own vision for the game, nobody should try to make Epic (or any other dev team, for that matter) compromise their vision for their game. And I can't say that I really see anybody trying to do that here.

What I do see is you defending Epic and GoW at every turn from what I guess you see as attacks and naysayers. Again, nobody here isn't looking forward to the game. We all want to play the game and we all want it to be great.

You're acting as if Epic is superhuman and can do no wrong. There will be flaws of some kind in GoW. This isn't going to be the game to end all games. The distinction between fan and fanboy that was made earlier is a crucial one. And in the quote you used, I don't think zealot was really used correctly. A zealot is the same thing as a fanboy. A zealot isn't going to point out flaws and make criticisms and voice concerns, a zealot is going to swallow whole whatever comes from the source he/she believes in, despite any facts or arguments to the contrary.

Gee, that sounds a lot like what people think you're doing.

So I guess there it is. I've put my gun on the table.

Yes, the game still has a ways to go before it's complete, lots of things can change between then and now, but I really think using that quote on anybody at this point, especially Ban, who always voices a legitimate reason for his POV, is uncalled for.

Nobody here is trying to be Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. Lay off.

~Ma1

[Snake]

That was really long, I picked out something about Epic being superhuman in my scan. Why do I have such faith in them? Because they have earned it. Every game they have released, even Unreal 2, has been produced with the utmost care and has put the player and that player's fun at the forefront of design. If any developer can push out a well balanced and fun game, it is Epic. And I am a huge fanboy of Epic Games. Is there a hat or jacket that I can purchase that declares such a position?

[UnrealWars]

There is a certain expectation when it comes to a big time company making a game. With Epic, they always strive for one thing. To make a game fun. Now and days game are getting more complex and more confusing and are missing the main point of playing a game. You want to have fun. With Epic, i have yet to play one of there games that i havent had fun with. And i own every UT game and UC. Thats why people put so much confidence in them that Gears of War will leave up to the hype.

[chron1caust]

Lastly and quite a popular one outside the gears forum is the amount of rounds needed to drop a locust, I know they're big and bad but even in halo the resilience is explained by an over shield and those without shields are dropped very quickly ...personally half the amount of ammo it currently takes would still be tedious, it's amazing for a while (a short while) to behold the muzzle flash and the impact flesh splatter BUT (and I dont know how many hours of gameplay there is to be had in GoW) after a few hours this just might do your head in emptying 2 clips into 1 locust ...and rinse and repeat
I wonder if headshots will kill them fast or not

[Uday23]

I wonder if headshots will kill them fast or not

check my "HEADSHOTS in GoW?" thread!

[ban381]

Yes, the game still has a ways to go before it's complete, lots of things can change between then and now, but I really think using that quote on anybody at this point, especially Ban, who always voices a legitimate reason for his POV, is uncalled for.

I had a good weekend, and i decided im not gonna bother arguing with any fanboyish comments. My last 5 or so post have been more about defending other peoples rights to voice their concerns, its not even about GoW anymore. If anyone here goes back and reads my posts, and compare them to snakes replies, they'll notice that they dont even relate to each other.

[slaypiece]

can you switch over the shoulder perspective's? from the default right shoulder to left?

yeah, you can do that.

[Zoso Fan]

EVERYONE SHUT UP AND STOP CRYING YOU GIRLS!! If i wanted this crap id go to ign or gamespot. SO JUST SHUT UP!!!! You all need to stop making such a big deal out of peoples comments, their called opinions, people arent fanboys they just have stong opinions... before you go out to call each other fanboys you should realize you all just look like jackass's. STOP AND PLEASE END THIS THREAD!!! Its spun out of control....(this is my opinion)

[UnrealWars]

EVERYONE SHUT UP AND STOP CRYING YOU GIRLS!! If i wanted this crap id go to ign or gamespot. SO JUST SHUT UP!!!! You all need to stop making such a big deal out of peoples comments, their called opinions, people arent fanboys they just have stong opinions... before you go out to call each other fanboys you should realize you all just look like jackass's. STOP AND PLEASE END THIS THREAD!!! Its spun out of control....(this is my opinion)

Your acting like such a fanboy Zoso Fan!.......J/k

Anyways, lets try and keep these forums away from arguments like these. Discussions are fine, but whe it becomes a "Your a Fanboy" thread it gets old. Lets be happy gamers and enjoy GoW:D

[Uday23]

^^^couldnt agree with u guys more!